Comments

• verofakto

  2011-02-05 19:15:22

  While you "break out the fizzy" and start another slog against Canonical, you might want to actually read the source you quoted:
  
  

  I will be starting at Rdio, where I expect to take Banshee into yet another new direction. I'm excited about the possibilities ahead, but will save my thoughts for another time.

  
  
  

  I intend to continue to be involved in Banshee as an application and community. I am looking forward to again spending more time in the project.

  
  
  Let me know if you need anything else. When should I expect your associates to start insulting me? Or do they get Saturdays off these days?

• twitter

  2011-02-06 01:47:02

  There is no Techrights slog, especially not one against Ubuntu or Canonical. Slogs is a form of information warfare innovated by Microsoft. It includes judicial extortion of free software users, poisoning of hardare standards, corruption of influential journalists and persistent harassment and slander of free software advocates.
  
  Microsoft, Mono and Banshee boosters should not take much sollice in Bockover's move to rdio or the demise of Novell. Rdio is some kind of flash based subscription music service, a model that has been consistently rejected in the market place. Bockover's last work on Banshee was to "integrate" it with the patent bully, Amazon. If his present mission is to integrate Banshee with a subscription music service, we can all get a good laugh at non portable Zune 2.0, Plays for Sure. I'm sorry that Bockover thinks he has to do such things to make a living as Novell collapses. I'm even sorrier that he was so abused by Novell and their obvious undermining of software freedom on behalf of Microsoft, but I'm happy for everyone else that is now over. People with software talent should persue more honest occupations. There are many better ways to get buy that won't stain a person's resume like C#, Novell and Microsoft does.

• Dr. Roy Schestowitz

  2011-02-06 05:31:17

  Don't worry too much about "verofakto", which has an entire attack blog dedicated just to me.
  
  There is desperation from the .NET community ("verofakto" -- like Microsoft Florian-- is a .NET developer). This stalker is trying to suggest that I "actually read the source" when in fact I read the entire post from Aaron Bockover before I prepared this post and the stalker cannot find factual inaccuracies as a result.
  
  Don't mix the FOSS community with the .NET community. They are not the same thing and the latter hates it when Mono is dismissed as an option.

• twitter

  2011-02-06 06:46:25

  I'm not too worried about this particular stalker. I've seen the silly attack site's focus has shifted to you. The early posts were all a bunch of lies about me. The loser managed to get some google juice for a few months that could have been damaging to me in a job search. Now it looks like a desperate attempt to discredit Boycott Novell which the loser still tries below. The only weapons the stalkers have are trivial nit picking and baseless slander both of which backfire on them.
  
  I did not see any factual inaccuracies either but thought to set the record straight by reading the blog myself and pointing out the ridiculousness of the stalker's claims. Casual readers might not want to take the time to click through. Worse, the blog owner might delete or change the entry, so it's a good idea to have independent verification of your opinion.
  
  The stalker tried to pretend that this was not a blow to either Banshee or .NET but it is obviously a loss to both that Canonical and Gnome should take note of. Free software is resilient when there is real community interest but I don't think that exists outside of Novell/Microsoft pay.

• Dr. Roy Schestowitz

  2011-02-06 06:58:01

  IIRC, Novell owns Banshee copyrights, so it'll be interesting to see what happens when Novell drops the project by the wayside. Will it be orphaned?

• techwrongs

  2011-02-07 13:37:27

  "stalker" - Is this gentleman sitting outside if your window looking in? Does he follow you to the market?
  
  Does he keep you from sleeping at night?
  
  I am going to guess that the answer is no, no, and no. Meaning he isn't a stalker, calling him one is just another of your many lies.

• Dr. Roy Schestowitz

  2011-02-07 13:47:41

  You appear not to be familiar with the notion called "Internet stalker", aka "Cyberstalking":
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_stalker

• techwrongs

  2011-02-07 14:14:57

  You appear not to be familiar with the notion called “Internet stalker”, aka “Cyberstalking”:
  
  "It may include false accusations, monitoring, making threats, identity theft, damage to data or equipment, the solicitation of minors for sex, or gathering information in order to harass. The definition of "harassment" must meet the criterion that a reasonable person, in possession of the same information, would regard it as sufficient to cause another reasonable person distress."
  
  There is no evidence of any of wrong doing.
  
  There have been no false accusations, making threats, identity theft, damaging your data or equipment, are you a minor perhaps that he has been soliciting for sex?
  
  No, that's not it.
  
  You may be able to claim data gathering, but then that is something you would also be guilty of, now wouldn't it?

• twitter

  2011-02-08 00:21:39

  You have done all of the things a stalker does and you do it on regular business hours. Here's a summary post of your activity here, so that Roy can tag the Techrwongs nym with.
  
  Readers here have put up with weeks of your foul mouthed [1, 2] and baseless attacks on Roy's character [ 1, 2, 3, 4, 5]. Your favorite activity is to call him dishonest and you repeat this claim in every appearance. Occasionally, you nit pick a little and try to twist your intentional misunderstanding into a lie on Roy's part. At other times, you claim the site is self aggrandizement and irrational ego boosting. Threats to continue this obnoxious behavior forever under a name you think is annoying. Of course there is much more where all of that came from. In all of Techwrong's ranting, no real technical or ethical issue has ever been put forth. This activity would be considered harassment by any reasonable person.
  
  There's good reason to suspect Techwrongs, Clanky and a few other nyms are paid PR people. The first, noted above, is their strict adherence to regular working hours. The other is that the storms come and go on a regular basis. Here, for example, is a troll strom from 2008. The language and posting pattern is the same, despite the years separating that storm and this one. It's like the same people reading from the same playbook. Taken all together, Microsoft boosters have wasted lots of time and money to harass Roy over the years.

• techwrongs

  2011-02-08 13:26:18

  "You have done all of the things a stalker does and you do it on regular business hours. Here’s a summary post of your activity here, so that Roy can tag the Techrwongs nym with."
  
  I have done none of the things a stalker has, to state that I have is libelous.
  
  "Readers here have put up with weeks of your foul mouthed [1, 2] and baseless attacks on Roy’s character [ 1, 2, 3, 4, 5]. Your favorite activity is to call him dishonest and you repeat this claim in every appearance."
  
  I only see Roy and yourself complaining largely, this is indicative of acceptance by the larger audience. Deal with it.
  
  " Occasionally, you nit pick a little and try to twist your intentional misunderstanding into a lie on Roy’s part. At other times, you claim the site is self aggrandizement and irrational ego boosting."
  
  Exactly what this site is. I haven't misunderstood anything, nor have you proven that I have. You choose to attack me with fear uncertainty and doubt, I'm very sorry but you will be unable to win this argument without sharing facts.
  
  I see that you are really upset now. I have angered the troll.
  
  "Threats to continue this obnoxious behavior forever under a name you think is annoying. Of course there is much more where all of that came from. In all of Techwrong’s ranting, no real technical or ethical issue has ever been put forth. This activity would be considered harassment by any reasonable person."
  
  I offered to stay until such time as the lies stop. It is very easy to make me go away, simply stop lying. I suppose though that attacking me in your mind is a much simpler answer because honesty would destroy this site and everything that you stand for.
  
  "There’s good reason to suspect Techwrongs, Clanky and a few other nyms are paid PR people. The first, noted above, is their strict adherence to regular working hours."
  
  Prove it. I make no money from Microsoft or Novel, it is on you to prove otherwise. This is just another of your many fabrications in your feeble attempt to discredit that which you otherwise cannot.
  
  "The other is that the storms come and go on a regular basis. Here, for example, is a troll strom from 2008. The language and posting pattern is the same, despite the years separating that storm and this one. It’s like the same people reading from the same playbook."
  
  I don't know who they were, but if they are like me they are here in support of free software, not because of funding from some PR firm as you would have anyone believe.
  
  "Taken all together, Microsoft boosters have wasted lots of time and money to harass Roy over the years."
  
  Ahh yes, slander. I for one am no friend of Microsoft but I'm sure you will continue to pretend that I am so that you can continue your unfounded non-factual attack. You see though, it just makes you look a fool so please do continue my jester.

• twitter

  2011-02-08 13:39:48

  It's funny how you defend your self with more of the same.

• techwrongs

  2011-02-08 13:56:08

  "It’s funny how you defend your self with more of the same."
  
  It's funny how you are unable to defend yourself when cornered.

• twitter

  2011-02-08 17:41:26

  All you did was prove what an astroturfer you are. The only new thing you have asserted is that you represent readers of the site because no one bothered to reply to most of the hundreds of nasty comments you have made here over the last month. That's almost as absurd as your claiming to advocate free software. No one but a full time stalker such as yourself has the time to deal with you and running people off is your goal. Everyone can see what you are doing if they bother to read, but few people bother to dig through your waste. This is the heart and soul of disruptive astroturfing. You pretend to be the community you wish to destroy.
  
  I don't feel very cornered by your reasoning, but I would like for Roy to do something to keep you from disrupting the site. I get tired of dealing with it too.

• techwrongs

  2011-02-08 18:45:19

  "All you did was prove what an astroturfer you are."
  
  Yawn.
  
  "The only new thing you have asserted is that you represent readers of the site because no one bothered to reply to most of the hundreds of nasty comments you have made here over the last month."
  
  Hurry along and make some new accounts to use to "prove me wrong".
  
  "That’s almost as absurd as your claiming to advocate free software."
  
  Says someone that drools I hate open source, except open source that fits my limited criteria.
  
  "No one but a full time stalker such as yourself has the time to deal with you and running people off is your goal."
  
  More libel, you have no evidence of internet stalking, your speculation doesn't even carry any weight. On the other hand, implying that I am a stalker for merely uncovering truths about Roys (and your) dishonesty is technically libel.
  
  "Everyone can see what you are doing if they bother to read, but few people bother to dig through your waste."
  
  They certainly can. Other than yourself and Roy (with the exception of the op of the Likewise slander who pretended to defend hisself), crickets.
  
  "This is the heart and soul of disruptive astroturfing. You pretend to be the community you wish to destroy."
  
  I have no wish to destroy any community, yet you grasp some imaginary assertion that I do. Such deceit.
  
  "I don’t feel very cornered by your reasoning, but I would like for Roy to do something to keep you from disrupting the site. I get tired of dealing with it too."
  
  There really isn't much Roy can do. As he said, all IPs come from a "cache server". He could block me, but that would block everyone.
  
  I have an alternative. Show a little honesty and integrity in reporting, and I will just magically go away.
  
  The choice is yours, not mine. I'm not demanding anything criminal, quite the opposite really. Your continued harassment and implications that I am something or someone that I am not only damages this site further.
  
  It is not me with the problem here, it is you, Twitter.

• Adrian Malacoda

  2011-02-09 22:35:31

  Mr. Techwrongs seems to be an annoying git with a persistent grudge, but I think it's a stretch to assume that that alone implies he's being paid to do it.

• twitter

  2011-02-09 23:45:29

  It might be a stretch for you to assume that, but I've had the same kinds of jerks following me around for about ten years. They have pestered me at Slashdot, on LUG lists and so on and so forth. Microsoft's TE program is as organized and persistent as it is malicious, and we've seen from their training documents that they are taught to be abusive. It is easy for me to relate organizations like Anti-Slash, Linsux and hoards of jerks we see online every day to Microsoft TEs. These would just be another effort from more "respectable" Microsoft poison pens such as Dan Lyons, George Ou, Maurine O'Gara, Ed Bott and many others who regularly promote similar messages in more toned down forms in Microsoft's vast publication empire. Some may be done by these "luminaries" themselves, as Dan Lyon's nasty little fake Steve Jobs article series was, or they might be done by lesser, wanna be PR people like John Marriot who founded and ran Anti-Slash. I've never have the time to read, index and catalog my or Techright's writing like some of the persistent trolls do and my faith in humanity is such that I can only believe that kind of effort would only be put forth for money.

• Adrian Malacoda

  2011-02-11 04:34:01

  Oh, I've got no doubt Microsoft would stoop to such a level. But I find it equally probable that some people don't need to be paid to spout such dreck.
  
  Reddit announced that they joined forces with FSF to create a logo for their membership campaign. Immediately some anti-FSF blowhards attacked the comment thread with ludicrous anti-Stallman garbage. I have no doubt that these people honestly, truly, believe the stuff they post.

• twitter

  2011-02-11 13:39:07

  There's no way that Verofacto, Techwrongs, Robotron and other harassment nyms believe in anything other than pestering Roy and trying to smear Techrights. They consistently back Microsoft talking points and consistently trash everything having to do with free software as they nitpick and try to portray Roy as a liar. To do that, they frequently contradict themselves. A prankster might put forth a small portion of the effort they have and move on. These people have been at it for years, long enough for most people to grow up.

• Dr. Roy Schestowitz

  2011-02-11 14:06:31

  AstroTurfers in USENET use these tactics too. To prevent the messenger from being quoted or referenced they retaliate against (e.g. insult) those who do and also try to stick a "liar" label on the messenger.

• Dr. Roy Schestowitz

  2011-02-11 05:30:42

  Maybe they were influenced by disinformation. The anti-Stallman PR campaign has also come from Microsoft lobbying groups such as CompTIA (there are examples that I documented). It's enough to seed some malicious stuff and let it spread.

• Dr. Roy Schestowitz

  2011-02-11 05:31:11

  I agree.

• NotZed

  2011-02-11 07:46:36

  Being paid to do it would at least make some sense.
  
  Otherwise they certainly appear to be quite disturbed and should seek professional help.
  
  And I imagine techrights readers can spot a troll when they see one and don't want to feed it. They do such a great job of embarrassing themselves all on their own.

• verofakto

  2011-02-06 01:58:46

  persistent harassment and slander of free software advocates.

  
  
  Yes, my point exactly.
  
  By the way, did Dr. Roy ever admit you nymshifted to "your_friend" with his blessing or did that get swept under the rug to avoid embarrassment? Sorry, I lost track. And are you still shilling for BoycottNovell over at Slashdot with your 40 accounts or did they finally block all your IP addresses?

• verofakto

  2011-02-06 08:06:31

  I posted a reply on my blog. I'm fairly sure you two can find it.

• twitter

  2011-02-06 17:49:03

  Thanks, but I doubt anyone will read it.

• Dr. Roy Schestowitz

  2011-02-06 18:17:07

  It's preaching to the choir of .NET boosters.

• twitter

  2011-02-06 20:52:35

  I doubt even they read it.

• Dr. Roy Schestowitz

  2011-02-06 21:15:30

  Either way, verofakto.NET's obsession with Techrights is free publicity to us. He might as well carry on...

• verofakto

  2011-02-07 15:46:14

  Either way, verofakto.NET’s obsession with Techrights is free publicity to us.

  
  
  Yes, I suppose in the same way your obsession with Novell and Microsoft is positive free publicity for them.

• Dr. Roy Schestowitz

  2011-02-07 16:14:01

  I see you're comparing me to a company with almost 4,000 staff and 90,000 staff, respectively.

• techwrongs

  2011-02-07 13:35:38

  "Thanks, but I doubt anyone will read it."
  
  I did, it was quite insightful. I would recommend it to anyone with an open mind, and half a brain.
  
  That wouldn't be you however, twitter.

• verofakto

  2011-02-07 16:31:23

  I see you’re comparing me to a company with almost 4,000 staff and 90,000 staff, respectively.

  
  
  Oh, I'm sorry you did not understand my analogy.

• twitter

  2011-02-08 14:12:20

  Everyone understands what you are doing.

• Gizmo

  2011-02-12 01:00:30

  Quote: Taken all together, Microsoft boosters have wasted lots of time and money to harass Roy over the years.
  
  Sorry but I disagre with you. It is quite usefull training for most activists out there. It is easy to discern their usual modus operandi. I would call this the equivalent internet version of ''thank you for smoking''

• twitter

  2011-02-13 05:45:49

  Here's an example of the lengths big dumb companies will go to smear their opponents. We see the same kinds of attacks waged against free software all the time because the goals are the same. Big companies seek to coopt and discredit those opposed to them. The actors arrayed against progressive groups are:
  
  

  lobbying firm Hunton and Williams. Hunton And Williams’ attorney Richard Wyatt, who once represented Food Lion in its infamous lawsuit against ABC News, was hired by the Chamber in October of last year. To assist the Chamber, Wyatt and his associates, John Woods and Bob Quackenboss, solicited a set of private security firms — HBGary Federal, Palantir, and Berico Technologies (collectively called Team Themis) — to develop tactics for damaging progressive groups and labor unions, in particular ThinkProgress, the labor coalition called Change to Win, the SEIU, US Chamber Watch, and StopTheChamber.com.

  
  
  Tactics listed includes moles and fake leaks to discredit progressive groups. Note that the literal meaning of Themis is "that which is put in place" and that the Titan represents a sort or proto-justice. What a clever but pretentious name for unjust plants designed to win over the consensus of the poorly informed and intimidated.
  
  The same "security" company is working to smear Wikileaks on behalf of Bank of America. Again, moles and fake documents are considered as well as stoking internal conflicts, massive trolling and other "pressure" to scare off "moderates":
  
  

  in addition to proposing to conduct cyber attacks on Wikileaks’ European-based infrastructure (complete with a picture of WL’s bomb shelter-housed servers), the proposal appears to recommend that these companies be paid to troll social media, like Twitter, to not only “identify risky behavior of employees” but also, presumably, “push the radical and reckless nature of wikileaks activities.” You know–the kind of trolling we often see...

  
  
  The part about a witch hunt of "risky" employees is particularly troubling. It is apparent that these companies are run by paranoid bigots who will not tolerate the slightest hint of dissent in their own ranks and seek to ruin real dissent everywere.
  
  It is further claimed that the US DoJ recommended these firms to BoA. US government agencies should be ashamed to be used as tools in this sort of business. We've seen pacifists, death penalty opponents and others placed on various terrorist watch lists. These leaked documents show that part of the aim of the runaway US police state is to protect the financial interests and reputations of select US companies.

• Dr. Roy Schestowitz

  2011-02-13 05:54:03

  Groklaw had both types of problems and it was extremely careful not to be "poisoned" by fake Comes/court exhibits or bad translations. Also new:
  
  http://madhatter.ca/2011/02/11/groklaw-and-the-wall-street-journal/
  
  "As a long time reader of Groklaw, who got to hear all of the false accusations made against Groklaw by Darl McBride and others at SCO as they were made, it was delightful to see Groklaw being recognized as an accurate source by the Wall Street Journal."
  
  When you make big business suffer, expect retaliation. Novell IP addresses are still daemonising me, not just in this site but in others too (I was told by the webmasters). IBM too is daemonising its detractors based on what I heard from victims. It's their modus operandi.

• twitter

  2011-02-13 06:34:49

  Updates from Salon, who's reporter was a target of the smear. From the reporter, and from Salon. There's excellent summary and opinion from Salon. The firms involved in the smear have come out with denials, apologies and scape goats.

• Dr. Roy Schestowitz

  2011-02-13 07:12:25

  Denials? Their reaction to this was more of a confirmation of their involvement.

• twitter

  2011-02-13 15:15:40

  BoA spokesman Scott Silvestri denied everything with a carefully worded statement that denies nothing. Salon notes that their denial, "they don't say whether they hired Berico or Palantir, the firms that were coordinating the proposal, to do similar work, nor whether Hunton & Williams did." Hunton & Williams refuses to comment. Berico CEO Guy Filippelli and COO Nick Hallam point fingers at flunkies and have disowned HBGary Federal.
  
  Through all of this, we see how the rich and powerful do their dirty work through proxies. The levels of indirection used by BoA and other large firms make the story difficult to track for average readers and makes meaningless denials easy even when people dig up the emails. I look forward to more confirmation of this story.

• Dr. Roy Schestowitz

  2011-02-13 15:41:15

  The connection to BoA cannot yet be shown, but others are more or less established and verified. On December 17th Julian Assange was brought out of jail (for nothing really, no conviction) and then alleged that the attacks on him & Wikileaks had all come from major banks, not the US government (which served as a front).

• twitter

  2011-02-13 16:05:37

  The cooperation between government and private business is one of the more disturbing revelations. The finger pointing and denials between these flunkies is to be expected and is a feature of proxy attacks. The lack of security exhibited by so called security firms hired by big companies is also expected as these banks all cooperate with and trust Microsoft on their desktops. It has been evident for a long time that the US government is more or less serving the businesses that it is supposed to regulate and intelligent people can talk about oligarchy, but this round of scandals unearths government involvement with firms that do a lot of dirty work and confirms the relationship that informed people could only speculate about before.

• Dr. Roy Schestowitz

  2011-02-13 16:15:59

  Which is exactly why Wikileaks has been a blessing. It helps redact and release a lot of documents that confirm this, which in turn leads the governments to doing exactly what those documents confirm (circular).
  
  I strongly encourage people to watch the following video:
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Fab1IsCZzY
  
  
  
  Remember who owns the media companies and who funds the vast majority of politicians.

• twitter

  2011-02-13 15:42:04

  Palantir also denies involvement, "Palantir Technologies does not build software that is designed to allow private sector entities to obtain non-public information, engage in so-called cyber attacks or take other offensive measures ..." We shall see.
  
  The point I've been making here is that the kind of "pressure" put on Techrights is often paid for. This is not the first time big companies have been caught doing this kind of thing but the evidence is more detailed and we are starting to see just how petty and thorough the rich and powerful really are in their attacks on perceived threats.
  
  We should neither expect or tolerate that kind of behavior. It is immoral, illegal and completely self defeating. Most of these companies are government protected brands that depend on public good will. Astroturfing will blow back on them spectacularly. Who's going to trust their money to a bank that wastes it paying thugs to harass their neighbors? Microsoft and Novell's brands are broken in every way but they can always make things worse with more of the same old TE. These companies are imploding. In the mean time, we should all demand enforcement of standing laws against astroturfing and harassment.

• Dr. Roy Schestowitz

  2011-02-13 16:03:43

  Groklaw took interest in the subject because Pamela too -- having caught SCO employees and Microsoft lobbying group commenting in her blog -- is facing libel/strong criticism from outside her site (where she cannot see IP addresses) and a lady who spied on her and smeared her was paid by SCO and was used as an attack dog by Microsoft, based on subpoenas/discovery.
  
  From Groklaw:
  
  http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/02/11/campaigns/ http://content.usatoday.com/communities/technologylive/post/2011/02/bofa-denies-connection-to-proactive-tactics-to-silence-wikileaks/1 http://www.salon.com/about/inside_salon/2011/02/11/threats_against_glenn_greenwald_wikileaks/index.html http://content.usatoday.com/communities/technologylive/post/2011/02/us-chamber-joins-bofa-in-denying-ties-to-disinformation-campaigns/1
  
  Let's keep on eye on this...

• twitter

  2011-02-13 16:29:02

  Yes, I expect PJ to do a good job covering this because of her prior experience as a target.
  
  The link between the Microsoft friendly US DoJ was what caught my eye. When BoA wanted to discredit a community, the DoJ knew who to call. As Salon put it
  
  

  The very idea of trying to threaten the careers of journalists and activists to punish and deter their advocacy is self-evidently pernicious; that it's being so freely and casually proposed to groups as powerful as the Bank of America, the Chamber of Commerce, and the DOJ-recommended Hunton & Williams demonstrates how common this is. These highly experienced firms included such proposals because they assumed those deep-pocket organizations would approve and it would make their hiring more likely.

  
  
  I'm interested to see this lit fuse burn it's way back to Preston Gates and Microsoft. We have Microsoft's TE training documents and the company has been caught it numerous astrorturfing scandals. I'm hoping lawsuits and investigations dig up links between that and much of the ugliness of the web that people take for granted - smear campaigns, persistant harassment, foul mouthed thread hijacking and all the rest of that kind of trolling. It is obvious to me that Microsoft pays people to disrupt "enemy" forums such as Slashdot. I'd like to see confirmation of the nastier work and for the company to be forced to pay restitution.
  
  A reasonable award for someone like PJ would be some multiple of Microsoft's spending against her. This would send a message to companies, that if they are caught they will have to pay many times what they expected. PJ deserves the money.

• Dr. Roy Schestowitz

  2011-02-13 16:55:34

  Somebody who ran Slashdot had told me that there are PR agents manipulating it and some smears that we're aware of -- including from of IBM -- are still in my inbox. The problem is that the FTC barks but never bites; it's part of the same system. There need to be more federal bodies that defend people, not companies (whose people can individually be defended but not as a group).