EditorsAbout the SiteComes vs. MicrosoftUsing This Web SiteSite ArchivesCredibility IndexOOXMLOpenDocumentPatentsNovellNews DigestSite NewsRSS

11.04.11

Microsoft Wants to Dance With Samba

Posted in GNU/Linux, GPL, Microsoft, Samba at 4:07 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Samba balls

Summary: How and why Microsoft is ‘embracing’ Samba

“O

n 10 October 2011,” writes The H, “a Microsoft developer contributed a GPL licensed patch to the Samba project. The patch, which was part of a proof of concept for extended protection for NTLM and presented by Stephen A. Zarko of Microsoft’s Open Source Technology Center, has now been noted as the passing of a milestone by Chris Hertel of the Samba team. Samba provides tools and servers which enable interoperability with Windows’ SMB and CIFS networking on Linux and Unix based systems.”

The reactions to this move were mixed. Proponents of the monopolist (who advertise with Microsoft) make it look wonderful (identical headline from SJVN), but members of Techrights are a lot more cautious.

“I’m not sure what the real role of the Microsoft team working with Samba is,” noted one person, “but the developers should not lose sight of the whole picture that is Microsoft. Just because one small department is helpful for one group, for right now does not mean that the greater threat has diminished or gone away. In some ways it the threat is greater because it gets the Samba team and others to let their guard down.

“It’s not unlike a vendor buying them a meal or beer for them, or providing swag. It’s not done for their benefit.

“This is a little more advanced than simply buying someone off with swag or free beer, but it’s the same principle. One rogue department doesn’t set policy for the whole beast.”

Microsoft also gave code to Mono (MS-PL-licensed). At the same time Microsoft asserted that it can sue over it.

“It’s working,” noted one of us. “One problem with Allison’s statement is that he is blind to how Microsoft makes its money. It does not make it’s money from Windows and Office, that’s just a tiny fraction of the money. The big money comes from the monopoly rents on both products.

“Microsoft was trying to leverage that monopoly to get into the server room when Samba took on M$ and defeated it in court. Microsoft is still going to protect its core money-makers, the two monopolies even if Samba does now get thrown a bone.”

Microsoft has already got its former employees from Likewise paying Microsoft for patents on Samba-like functionality (with Samba code). This is not good.

Sam Varghese points out that “Samba is one of the free software projects that has moved in toto to the GPL version 3.” Muktware’s take is that: “As Linux is gaining popularity Microsoft seems to have increased its contribution to ensure their products will work well with Linux. The recent patch submission to the Linux kernel was an indicator.”

What do readers think?

Share this post: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Digg
  • del.icio.us
  • Reddit
  • co.mments
  • DZone
  • email
  • Google Bookmarks
  • LinkedIn
  • NewsVine
  • Print
  • Technorati
  • TwitThis
  • Facebook

If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.

Pages that cross-reference this one

21 Comments

  1. Michael said,

    November 4, 2011 at 7:47 am

    Gravatar

    Linus Torvalds

    I may make jokes about Microsoft at times, but at the same time, I think the Microsoft hatred is a disease. I believe in open development, and that very much involves not just making the source open, but also not shutting other people and companies out.
    There are ‘extremists’ in the free software world, but that’s one major reason why I don’t call what I do ‘free software’ any more. I don’t want to be associated with the people for whom it’s about exclusion and hatred."

    Linus Torvalds

    I agree that it’s driven by selfish reasons, but that’s how all open source code gets written! We all "scratch our own itches". It’s why I started Linux, it’s why I started git, and it’s why I am still involved. It’s the reason for everybody to end up in open source, to some degree.
    So complaining about the fact that Microsoft picked a selfish area to work on is just silly. Of course they picked an area that helps them. That’s the point of open source – the ability to make the code better for your particular needs, whoever the ‘your’ in question happens to be.
    Does anybody complain when hardware companies write drivers for the hardware they produce? No. That would be crazy. Does anybody complain when IBM funds all the POWER development, and works on enterprise features because they sell into the enterprise? No. That would be insane.
    So the people who complain about Microsoft writing drivers for their own virtualization model should take a long look in the mirror and ask themselves why they are being so hypocritical.

    Roy should paste these quotes on his bathroom mirror and read them every morning.

  2. twitter said,

    November 6, 2011 at 11:53 pm

    Gravatar

    Linus should read the things Microsoft people tell each other before he condemns people who regard Microsoft with suspicion. Suspicion of known criminals is not exclusion or hatred in the normal sense, it is reasonable self defense. Microsoft is welcome to use GPL’d code under it’s terms. I used to think contributions to a project under those terms would be welcome too but after reading enough of Microsoft’s email, I think it’s a mistake. Microsoft should not be allowed to set policy or direction. The company will steer you towards self defeating complexity because they hate and want to destroy everyone who’s not Microsoft. Accepting code gives Microsoft PR power and is almost always a bad idea, even when everything else looks OK. Microsoft has told us all we need to know about this and the Samba people should take them at their word.

    In this document, we see that Microsoft only gives to gain power,

    The source of power is the ability to control the distribution of valuable resources, because there’s this fundamental concept of psychology and sociology that’s called reciprocity. When I do something for you, you’re supposed to do something for me. It’s a fundamental characteristic of human nature. … never work with someone who has failed to return a favor. Be sure to screw him as hard as you can as soon as you can, and then make sure that they understand what happened, and then you clear things and can go forward.

    Help people as much as you can, because then they owe you a favor. … You can create your own resources. Information is the ultimate resource, and that’s what Microsoft has in abundance. We have specifications, betas. Early access to betas are, like, worth their weight in gold. If you give Company A the beta, but his competitor, Company B, doesn’t have it, Company B is at a competitive disadvantage.

    So, in what Microsoft has done in it’s own terms is to create a valuable resource by keeping a secret in order to exert power over others. If the people at Samba do not do as they are told in return for this perceived favor, Microsoft will screw them as hard as they can as soon as they can.

    People in the free software community consider this lack of cooperation and exercise of power to be the chief evil of non free software. The last time Microsoft screwed Samba, they were convicted of anti-trust in the EU and forced to cooperate. It would be better to ignore Microsoft than to give them this power.

    From another training document, “Evangelism is War,” we know that Microsoft’s goal is always the complete destruction of the perceived competitor.

    In the Mopping Up phase, Evangelism’s goal is to put the final nail into the competing technology’s coffin, and bury it in the burning depths of the earth. Ideally, use of the competing technology becomes associated with mental deficiency … Just keep rubbing it in, via the press, analysts, newsgroups, whatever. Make the complete failure of the competition’s technology part of the mythology of the computer industry. We want to place selection pressure on those companies and individuals that show a genetic weakness for competitors’ technologies, to make the industry increasingly resistant to such unhealthy strains, over time. … final victory is reached only when the competing technology’s development team is disbanded, its offices reassigned, its marketing people promoted, etc. You have truly and finally won, when they come to interview for work at Microsoft.

    Anyone who’s thinking about working with Microsoft should understand the company from this perspective. They hate you and anyone who uses your tech. It’s their job to ruin you.

    The lawsuits and continuing Slog against Google, IBM, Android and all free software is evidence that nothing has changed in the decade since the documents above were written. Further evidence that the company is just as evil as ever comes from a former Silverlight developer. Microsoft’s documents and actions are entirely consistent. It’s not normal business, it’s a criminal enterprise and no individual working for the company is free to do anything but follow the company’s psychotic managers or quit.

    Michael Reply:

    Neither Linus nor I are suggesting to not be suspicious of MS (or Apple)… but the out and out hatred and paranoia seen in Roy and many others in COLA (and comments here) is a sickness. Clearly. It is irrational and unhealthy.

    For example, you talk about “in this document” and them point to a page on Roy’s site. Ok, maybe one of the links there points to the original material… but not that I saw. I strongly doubt MS is posting to techrights! But this is what you pointed to as “evidence” against Microsoft. Madness.

    But let us say, even though we have *no* evidence, that someone tied to Microsoft said what you attribute to them. Now you attribute this thinking to *all* Microsoft employees? Anyone who has worked with them? Who?

    It would be like saying anyone who has worked with Stallman or endorses the FSF shares his views about wanting to relabel porn as “educational material” and allowing it to be completely uncensored in schools. That would be just as crazy.

    Noting how such thoughts are irrational is *honest*. It is not a form of support for Microsoft or anyone else.

  3. saulgoode said,

    November 7, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    Gravatar

    For example, you talk about “in this document” and them point to a page on Roy’s site. Ok, maybe one of the links there points to the original material… but not that I saw.

    The very first external link of that article points to the original material (well, not the “original”, nothing on the Internet is but a digital copy of something else). The original material was a transcript of a tape recording from the DRG Summit-January 16, 1996 entitled “Power Evangelism and Relationship Evangelism” presented by Microsoft employees James Plamondon and Marshall Goldberg. Said transcript was accepted as evidence and entered into the public record as Exhibit PX2456 in Iowa District Court Case No. CL 82311.

    Though you didn’t question it directly, twitter’s second citation stems from Exhibit PX3096 of that same trial. Both documents were “originally” published on http://www.iowaconsumercase.org but were taken down after the case was closed. Nonetheless, archival copies are still available not only from Techrights, but groklaw.net, iowa.gotthefacts.org and elsewhere on the Web.

    But let us say, even though we have *no* evidence, that someone tied to Microsoft said what you attribute to them. Now you attribute this thinking to *all* Microsoft employees? Anyone who has worked with them? Who?

    How about the employee who describes his role in the company as: “For eight years (1992-2000), I was the driving force behind Microsoft’s effort to make its Technology Evangelism (TE) efforts more efficient, effective, and ruthless,“?

    saulgoode Reply:

    The final link in my post should have been to the archived version of the webpage (the original page is no longer available).

    saulgoode Reply:

    Apparently the Techrights commenting system can’t handle oddly-formed URLs such as result from links to archive.org caches. You will have to look up the archive version yourself to view the remainder of Mr Plamondon’s catharsis.

    Dr. Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    I made a complete copy of his blog after I had heard that MS Spaces would shut down. It’s a dead Microsoft product.

    Michael Reply:

    Fair enough with the documents… but, again, you even admit he was there up until 2000. Over a decade ago. And he is one person. He is not Microsoft.

    As far as Roy copying things, he is not a reliable source of anything.

    twitter Reply:

    The pdf’s Roy hosts can be verified by anyone by looking at other sites that host the same material on the web from the Internet Archive web cache. The Techrights community transcribed those image based documents by hand so that search engines could index them. Techrights would be happy for anyone to point out transcription errors.

    The person who presented the material was an official trainer and supervisor. His classes were mandatory for Microsoft’s army of “Evangelists.” The nasty behavior promoted by Microsoft has been observed repeatedly. The most recent outburst observed is the former Silverlight developer. If anything, the Silverlight idiot shows that things have gotten worse, not better over the decade.

    Finally, it is not necessary to attribute this horrible attitude to every Microsoft employee to show that Microsoft is an irredeemably evil company that should be avoided. We only have to show that Microsoft management is this way and the above documents show this without a doubt. Your very presence here, Michael, is good evidence that nothing has changed at Microsoft. Day in and day out you spam comments here with dishonesty and insults to promote Microsoft talking points.

    Michael Reply:

    FUD:

    Your very presence here, Michael, is good evidence that nothing has changed at Microsoft. Day in and day out you spam comments here with dishonesty and insults to promote Microsoft talking points.

    The fact you think I have ties to Microsoft proves your paranoia… given how I am sitting here at my Macintosh and, if anything, generally prefer Apple products over MS products.

    But even then, I openly admit to Apple’s weaknesses. I do not demonize those who compete with Apple the way Roy demonizes anyone who competes with Linux / OSS.

    Oh, and if you really thought I was dishonest you would quote the “lies” and explain why my comments are wrong. The fact is I point out many, many example of where Roy is inaccurate, dishonest, and unwilling to respond to any facts he cannot deal with. Want me to list some examples? Happy to do so – and then we can see how Roy has no honest response.

  4. Dr. Roy Schestowitz said,

    November 9, 2011 at 3:41 am

    Gravatar

    “It could be argued that Microsoft’s unethical Technology Evangelism (TE) practices are “old news”—i.e., that Microsoft stopped using these questionable TE practices long ago. This is very unlikely to be the case, for at least three reasons.” — James Plamondon

    http://scripting.wordpress.com/2007/01/09/scripting-news-for-192007/#comment-34530
    “The point being that Microsoft recognized that my presentations on evangelism theory, strategy, and tactics — of which only one has been entered into the public record, the others still being massively confidential — were, in fact, the best embodiment of Microsoft’s evangelism “policy” that existed at the time.”

    He said that on other occasions, insisting that even Gates approved what he was doing.

    Please don’t feed the trolls.

    Michael Reply:

    Sad that you see Linus Torvalds as a “troll” to the open source world. Read his quotes, above. Microsoft hatred is a disease… and you are a very, very sick man.

    This does not mean one should embrace Microsoft. But keep your criticisms honest and supportable… and Roy, if you want to show you are not extremely biased, you can note the absurdity of twitter’s claim that I have ties to Microsoft. Utterly absurd. Hey, maybe you can just admit there is no support for the claim.

    You can do that, right? Show your lack of support for the paranoid claims about Microsoft… wait. No, you will never do that.

    Yeah, Microsoft hatred is a disease.

    Mikko Reply:

    Linux hatered is a desease!

    Dr. Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    You are feeding a troll who says I “see Linus Torvalds as a “troll” to the open source world” when in fact I sometimes correspond with Torvalds. By feeding the trolls you only encourage them to make more false claims.

    Michael Reply:

    Linux hatred is a desease!”

    I would agree – but does anyone you know of suffer from that disease? Or are you including anyone who competes with it?

    If you mean to imply me – I certainly do not hate Linux. To the contrary, I advocate its use.

    Michael Reply:

    I noted I agree with Linus Torvalds that “Microsoft hatred is a disease” and this lead to you saying I am a “troll”. Hence, agreeing with Linus makes one a “troll” in your book.

    I know, I know… it does not work that way in your double-standard world. And the real reason you call me a “troll” is not because I agree with Linus but because I had the audacity to point out your incorrect claims. How dare I!

  5. Mikko said,

    November 9, 2011 at 4:03 am

    Gravatar

    @Michael

    They have macs at Microsoft

    Dr. Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    Some Microsoft sites are powered by Linux. The matter of fact is, even Microsoft knows its platforms are inferior.

    Michael Reply:

    And there you have it, ladies and gentlemen, the best evidence yet to support twitter’s accusations.

    LOL! Notice how Roy refused to admit twitter has nothing to back his claim.

    Mikko Reply:

    Microsoft Macintosh Business Unit

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_Business_Unit

    Michael Reply:

    Yup. So?

What Else is New


  1. The Free Software Foundation (FSF) Has the Full Support of Techrights

    Our support for the FSF is strong enough that we want to occasionally suggest improvements; there are growing frictions designed to isolate the FSF and cause self-restraint/censorship



  2. Why We Support Phoronix (Whereas Some Others Do Not)

    Some people try to characterise Michael Larabel as the 'bad boy' of Linux even though Michael is probably the hardest working Linux journalist out there



  3. Guarding and Rescuing the FSF Titanic: The Simplest Ways that AI will Change Computing

    "AI is already used to help kill people. We should be cautious, and know that the best rules we come up with (like no doing magic outside the school grounds) won't be followed all the time."



  4. Links 20/8/2019: DragonFlyBSD Developing DSynth

    Links for the day



  5. Guarding and Rescuing the FSF Titanic: Narcissism in The Community

    "Narcissists are drawn to intelligent people. They take great pleasure in attacking, controlling and defeating intelligent people because it makes them feel smarter and more important."



  6. Breaking the Law Has Become the Norm at the European Patent Office

    The European Patent Office’s ongoing practice of destroying critics/whistleblowers and crushing unions, judges, examiners etc. — as well as threats and bribery of the media — ultimately mean a perpetual state of lawlessness that, if it prevails, will let patent trolls raid the European economy and stall innovation



  7. Links 20/8/2019: KMyMoney 5.0.6, Kdenlive 19.08

    Links for the day



  8. Guarding and Rescuing the FSF Titanic: Free Software in Education

    "If everyone learns to code, then everyone gains some understanding of how to code in other languages."



  9. Links 19/8/2019: Another Linux 5.3 RC, OpenSUSE's Richard Brown Steps Down, Slackware Creates Patreon Page, Qt 6 Initiated

    Links for the day



  10. Speaking Truth to Monopolies (or How to Write Guest Posts in Techrights)

    We need to have more articles tackling the passage of all power — especially when it comes to software — to few large monopolies that disregard human rights or actively participate in their abolishment in the digital realm



  11. Guarding and Rescuing the FSF Titanic: Free as in Speech

    "While a new breed of so-called anarchists campaign against expression that even the state allows, people are also foolishly overplaying the relevance of the state to free speech issues -- as if it's not a freedom issue when a project is increasingly thought-policed, because the thought-policing isn't on a state level."



  12. Toxic Culture at Microsoft

    Racism, intolerance, sexism and bullying are rampant at Microsoft; but Microsoft would rather deflect/divert/sidetrack to Google and so-called 'GAFA'



  13. Guarding and Rescuing the FSF Titanic: Introduction

    "The FSF isn't just threatened, it will hit a large iceberg in the future that changes it permanently."



  14. Linux Journal and Linux.com Should Have Been Kept Going

    There's apparently no good explanation for the effective shutdown of Linux Journal and Linux.com; London Trust Media Holdings (LTMH), owner of Linux Journal, saw numbers improving and the Linux Foundation, steward of Linux.com, is loaded with money



  15. 2019 Microsoft Glossary

    How Microsoft internally interprets words that it is saying to the public and to the press



  16. 2019 Surveillance Glossary

    Distortion of technical and nontechnical terms in this day and age of '1984'



  17. Openwashing Report: It's Getting Worse, Fast. Everything is Apparently 'Open' Now Even Though It's Actually Proprietary.

    The latest examples (this past week's) of openwashing in the media, ranging from 5G to surveillance



  18. GitHub is a Dagger Inside Free/Open Source Software (FOSS); This is Why Microsoft Bought It

    A year later it seems pretty evident that Microsoft doesn’t like FOSS but is merely trying to control it, e.g. by buying millions of FOSS projects/repositories at the platform level (the above is what the Linux Foundation‘s Jim Zemlin said to Microsoft at their event while antitrust regulators were still assessing the proposed takeover)



  19. Microsoft Grows Within and Eats You From the Inside

    Microsoft entryism and other subversive tactics continue to threaten and sometimes successfully undermine the competition; Microsoft is nowadays doing that to core projects in the Free/Open Source software world



  20. Links 18/8/2019: New KNOPPIX and Emmabuntus Released

    Links for the day



  21. Links 17/8/2019: Unigine 2.9 and Git 2.23

    Links for the day



  22. Computer-Generated Patent Applications Show That Patents and Innovations Are Very Different Things

    The 'cheapening' of the concept of 'inventor' (or 'invention') undermines the whole foundation/basis of the patent system and deep inside patent law firms know it



  23. Concerns About IBM's Commitment to OpenSource.com After the Fall of Linux.com and Linux Journal

    The Web site OpenSource.com is over two decades old; in its current form it's about a decade old and it contains plenty of good articles, but will IBM think so too and, if so, will investment in the site carry on?



  24. Electronic Frontier Foundation Makes a Mistake by Giving Award to Microsoft Surveillance Person

    At age 30 (almost) the Electronic Frontier Foundation still campaigns for privacy; so why does it grant awards to enemies of privacy?



  25. Caturdays and Sundays at Techrights Will Get Busier

    Our plan to spend the weekends writing more articles about Software Freedom; it seems like a high-priority issue



  26. Why Techrights Doesn't Do Social Control Media

    Being managed and censored by platform owners (sometimes their shareholders) isn’t an alluring proposition when a site challenges conformist norms and the status quo; Techrights belongs in a platform of its own



  27. Patent Prosecution Highways and Examination Highways Are Dooming the EPO

    Speed is not a measure of quality; but today's EPO is just trying to get as much money as possible, as fast as possible (before the whole thing implodes)



  28. Software Patents Won't Come Back Just Because They're (Re)Framed/Branded as "HEY HI" (AI)

    The pattern we've been observing in recent years is, patent applicants and law firms simply rewrite applications to make these seem patent-eligible on the surface (owing to deliberate deception) and patent offices facilitate these loopholes in order to fake 'growth'



  29. IP Kat Pays the Price for Being a Megaphone of Team UPC

    The typical or the usual suspects speak out about the so-called 'prospects' (with delusions of inevitability) of the Unified Patent Court Agreement, neglecting to account for their own longterm credibility



  30. Links 17/8/2019: Wine 4.14 is Out, Debian Celebrates 26 years

    Links for the day


RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

Recent Posts