Bonum Certa Men Certa

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: June 25th, 2008

*RogerBacon ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 00:12
RogerBaconhii thereJun 25 00:12
RogerBaconits pretty quietJun 25 00:18
*RogerBacon has quit ("Quitte")Jun 25 00:30
*lis` has quit ("baibai<3")Jun 25 00:57
*max_stirner (n=maxstirn@ has left #boycottnovell ("Leaving")Jun 25 01:01
-dmwaters-{global notice} Good day all, I need to do a bunch of rerouting to prep for an outage tomorrow. If all goes well, this should not take long. Any further messages about this will be given in wallops, '/mode your_nick w' to see them. Thank you for your patience, and thank you for using freenode!Jun 25 02:13
*Eruaran has quit ( 25 02:16
*tessier has quit ( 25 02:16
*benJIman has quit ( 25 02:16
*Eruaran ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 02:16
*tessier (n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines) has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 02:16
*benJIman ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 02:16
*Eruaran has quit ( 25 02:17
*tessier has quit ( 25 02:17
*benJIman has quit ( 25 02:17
*Eruaran ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 02:18
*tessier (n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines) has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 02:18
*benJIman ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 02:18
*[H]omer has quit ( 25 02:19
*cozub has quit ( 25 02:19
*Eruaran has quit ( 25 02:19
*tessier has quit ( 25 02:19
*benJIman has quit ( 25 02:19
*moparx has quit ( 25 02:19
*ChanServ has quit ( 25 02:19
*[H]omer (n=[H] has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 02:19
*benJIman ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 02:19
*tessier (n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines) has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 02:19
*Eruaran ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 02:19
*moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 02:19
*ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 02:19
*cozub (i=[ has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 02:19
* gives channel operator status to [H]omer ChanServJun 25 02:19
-NickServ-This nickname is registered. Please choose a different nickname, or identify via /msg NickServ identify <password>.Jun 25 02:20
*[H]omer has quit ( 25 02:21
*cozub has quit ( 25 02:21
*Eruaran has quit ( 25 02:21
*tessier has quit ( 25 02:21
*benJIman has quit ( 25 02:21
*moparx has quit ( 25 02:21
*ChanServ has quit ( 25 02:21
*[H]omer (n=[H] has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 02:22
*benJIman ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 02:22
*tessier (n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines) has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 02:22
*Eruaran ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 02:22
*moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 02:22
*ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 02:22
*cozub (i=[ has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 02:22
* gives channel operator status to [H]omer ChanServJun 25 02:22
-NickServ-This nickname is registered. Please choose a different nickname, or identify via /msg NickServ identify <password>.Jun 25 02:22
*ChanServ has quit ( 25 02:25
*ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 02:25
* gives channel operator status to ChanServJun 25 02:25
-NickServ-This nickname is registered. Please choose a different nickname, or identify via /msg NickServ identify <password>.Jun 25 02:25
*Received a CTCP VERSION from freenode-connectJun 25 02:27
*cozub has quit ( 25 02:30
*cozub (i=[ has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 02:30
*[H]omer has quit ( 25 02:32
*[H]omer (n=[H] has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 02:32
* gives channel operator status to [H]omerJun 25 02:32
*Received a CTCP VERSION from freenode-connectJun 25 02:35
*[H]omer has quit ( 25 05:05
*[H]omer (n=[H] has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 05:05
* gives channel operator status to [H]omerJun 25 05:05
schestowitz ("This blog is open to invited readers only"). Very weird. If it's not a glitch, then maybe he tries to end the trolling.Jun 25 05:46
*PetoKraus ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 06:31
*[H]omer gives channel operator status to schestowitzJun 25 07:42
*ChanServ removes channel operator status from schestowitzJun 25 07:42
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzJun 25 07:44
*Eruaran has quit ( 25 09:20
*tessier has quit ( 25 09:20
*benJIman has quit ( 25 09:20
*Eruaran ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 09:21
*tessier (n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines) has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 09:21
*benJIman ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 09:21
*blackrabbit (i=Frith@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x59AAEBAA) has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 09:23
schestowitzHi,  blackrabbitJun 25 09:26
blackrabbithi schestowitzJun 25 09:27
blackrabbitschestowitz, I have been following your work for several years now, bravo.Jun 25 09:27
blackrabbitschestowitz, what a shame Digg has turned into such a waste dump, your performances there were always admirable.Jun 25 09:29
schestowitzReally? Thanks for that. Yes, Digg as a whole (not just me or Free software) has changed. It's not about technology anymore and it's filled with corporate types.Jun 25 09:31
schestowitzWatch how Ars Technica games that site (based on what I can tell). It's like an advertising turf and those who game it fight the admins like the security vendors fight cybercriminals.Jun 25 09:31
blackrabbitI enjoy the log file posts here, have you had any visits from munchkins?Jun 25 09:33
PetoKrausheheJun 25 09:33
PetoKrausthere's been someJun 25 09:33
blackrabbitas you are so keen to call them :DJun 25 09:33
blackrabbithehJun 25 09:33
PetoKrauswe had a visit by OpenSuse Opposition Neutralisation ForceJun 25 09:33
blackrabbitoh?Jun 25 09:34
blackrabbitI would like a Ballmer egg toss flash gameJun 25 09:35
blackrabbitevery round begins with, "hey you!"Jun 25 09:35
PetoKraushmmJun 25 09:35
PetoKraus^^Jun 25 09:35
blackrabbitThat video is pricelessJun 25 09:35
PetoKrausat this point you should ask "wait, don't tell me there is one already'Jun 25 09:35
blackrabbit:DJun 25 09:36
blackrabbitis there?Jun 25 09:36
PetoKraus 25 09:36
blackrabbitprobably not well doneJun 25 09:36
PetoKrauson the bottomJun 25 09:36
blackrabbitthat url is creepy... nagy orgy?Jun 25 09:36
PetoKrausnagy is very common hungarian nameJun 25 09:36
blackrabbitohJun 25 09:37
PetoKrausmeaning "small"Jun 25 09:37
blackrabbitDid any major media stations pick up on that egg story?Jun 25 09:37
blackrabbitIt seems most ignored itJun 25 09:37
schestowitz<blackrabbit>: Scott Nudds/Douglas ('Ezekiel') may have been here, if Homer's judgment is something to go by. it's hard to tell. They used Tor.Jun 25 09:38
blackrabbitschestowitz, I didn't say thatJun 25 09:39
blackrabbitschestowitz, oh, I see, does your client use theses around names of people you speak to? <>'sJun 25 09:40
blackrabbitthese*Jun 25 09:40
blackrabbitschestowitz, we would all do well to use tor :DJun 25 09:40
blackrabbitI can't say I'm surprised by the China Olympics Silverfish pushJun 25 09:42
blackrabbitAfter all, the LOC $$Silverfish wasn't too far off in memoryJun 25 09:42
schestowitz<blackrabbit>, no but I highlight names for copy and paste (less room for typos that eliminate alerts) and those brackets are included.Jun 25 09:43
schestowitzI use XChat.Jun 25 09:43
blackrabbitschestowitz, oh, it appears to me as if you were quoting me when you used my name in a response in quotes! :DJun 25 09:44
schestowitzChina and the olypics are all up for sale. It's bizJun 25 09:44
PetoKraustab completion?Jun 25 09:44
schestowitzI had a chat about this at the gym the other day. Sports is all ruins because all those athletes are on drugs. It's like everyone there is cheating and those that play dirty win.Jun 25 09:44
schestowitzSame in business, mind you, where those like Microsoft who break the rules reap the prizes.Jun 25 09:45
blackrabbitschestowitz, it's biz, but I'm surprised the silverfish tail is squirming so quickly to try and edge into the mainstream and swallow FlashJun 25 09:45
schestowitz<PetoKraus>, I saw that option, but haven't used it yet. I'm back to IRC after more than 10 years, so I'm a mIRC kiddo going by memory.Jun 25 09:46
blackrabbitschestowitz, type bla and press tabJun 25 09:46
schestowitzMicrosoft would do whatever it takes to grab media too. Software becomes a commodity, so Apple scares them (oh, and Sony).Jun 25 09:46
blackrabbitschestowitz, you're not on windows, are you? :PJun 25 09:47
schestowitzNew: http://blog.seattlepi.nwsour...  (old E-mail, leaked)Jun 25 09:47
schestowitzNo, I'm not. That was ages ago. I was about 14.Jun 25 09:47
blackrabbithaJun 25 09:48
schestowitzI was young and naive. I thought PC=Windows. Well, it does /come/ with it, doesn't it?Jun 25 09:49
PetoKrausschestowitz: just type start of any nickJun 25 09:49
PetoKrauslike "sch"Jun 25 09:49
PetoKrausand hit tab ;)Jun 25 09:50
blackrabbitschestowitz, I am not judging you, I was curious about your current OS usage. :DJun 25 09:50
blackrabbitschestowitz, I believe most of us were exposed to Windows some time or another.Jun 25 09:50
blackrabbitschestowitz, like a 500 lb. flasher with a mole on his cheeksJun 25 09:51
schestowitzThanks, PetoKraus .Jun 25 09:52
schestowitzI started with DOS, but I can't recall which version. DOS6 floppies I probably still have lying somewhere, but it came later.Jun 25 09:53
schestowitzMy mom used Lotus 1-2-3Jun 25 09:53
blackrabbitschestowitz, DOS? You newb! :DJun 25 09:53
schestowitzWell... what else was there. I saw a few Macs on rare occasions. They were advanced but expensive. Nobody almost seemed to used them.Jun 25 09:54
schestowitzMy first experience with Novell was distant... in the school's network that was run by Novell servers.Jun 25 09:55
blackrabbitschestowitz, depends on the time you began, what was there there was a lot of hardware/software depending on your interest actuallyJun 25 09:58
blackrabbitschestowitz, but not everyone is the type to dust off old hardware and try itJun 25 09:59
schestowitzI was never connected to the Internet until I got a Winmodem (3.11).Jun 25 10:00
EruaranHi guysJun 25 10:03
PetoKraus'lloJun 25 10:03
EruaranWant to see a British MP giving folks from the BBC a hard time over Microsoft and interoperability ?Jun 25 10:04
blackrabbitschestowitz, for shameJun 25 10:04
blackrabbitschestowitz, you should advertise these to M$ shills coming here: 25 10:04
EruaranFeast your eyes on this little bit of entertainment: 25 10:05
schestowitzHey, <Eruaran>Jun 25 10:05
Eruaranhi royJun 25 10:05
schestowitzI wrote this earlier:Jun 25 10:05
schestowitz<schestowitz> ("This blog is open to invited readers only"). Very weird. If it's not a glitch, then maybe he tries to end the trolling.Jun 25 10:05
EruaranThe link to the youtube clip I just posted, did you post it already on BN at some stage ? I have a vague memory that you may have...Jun 25 10:06
PetoKrausi am dling the video right nowJun 25 10:06
schestowitzblackrabbit, seen that Amazon link. Maybe that's how Microsoft reward them. It actually coined the word, I believe.Jun 25 10:07
schestowitzEruaran, I never saw this one before, but it's [H]omer who uploaded it.Jun 25 10:09
EruaranI'm locked out of Aarons blog :(Jun 25 10:09
schestowitzYou know what I'm gonna do? I'll just make an Ogg out of it and post it to 25 10:10
EruarancoolJun 25 10:12
EruaranIts a great clipJun 25 10:12
blackrabbitlolJun 25 10:13
schestowitzI'm surprised I never saw it before. I saw photos though.Jun 25 10:13
schestowitzI'll use the headline "Why BBC is Microsoft Media (Video)"Jun 25 10:14
schestowitz(transcoding video at the moment). I'll post the good news about ODF in the mean time.Jun 25 10:18
PetoKrausthe video is niceJun 25 10:27
blackrabbitAmazing... absolutely amazing... find a program on you must validate before you download! What type of horse shit is that?Jun 25 10:28
blackrabbitI'm honestly surprised they haven't adopted a silverfish compression methodJun 25 10:28
blackrabbitIExplore.svfJun 25 10:29
PetoKrausxDJun 25 10:29
blackrabbitSorry! You must open this archive with Microsoft Silverfish Extractor!Jun 25 10:29
blackrabbitaka M$ tunacanJun 25 10:29
EruaranAparrently BBC's iPlayer for the Mac is crippled.Jun 25 10:30
PetoKrausand can you download for linuxJun 25 10:31
PetoKraus?Jun 25 10:31
PetoKraus:)Jun 25 10:31
EruaranNope.Jun 25 10:32
PetoKrausthat's lie! the nice guy in the video said you can!Jun 25 10:32
PetoKraus:PJun 25 10:32
EruaranI was surprised that he so blatantly lied like thatJun 25 10:32
EruaranI mean, seriously, what kind of dimwittedness is that ?Jun 25 10:33
schestowitzblackrabbit, BBC DID consider Silverblight [sic] at one stageJun 25 10:33
EruaranIf I was that MP, at that point I'd Just say, "get out, you're an idiot"Jun 25 10:33
schestowitzI blasted them at COLA over it and I think other did as well, so they ran away to Flash.Jun 25 10:33
EruaranIf he's lying, he's an idiot. If he's just ignorant, he's an idiot.Jun 25 10:34
schestowitzDid you see the comment on that last BBC post in BN? Some guy, apparently from the BBC, said the engineers want to 'kill' those managers.Jun 25 10:35
Eruarandidn't see thatJun 25 10:35
schestowitzI can imagine it's a battle between the 'Microsoft reps/agents' and those who know their way around.Jun 25 10:35
schestowitzOK, Ogg complete! On to posting.Jun 25 10:35
Eruaran:DJun 25 10:35
EruaranMake sure you spellcheck ;)Jun 25 10:35
schestowitzI'll append reference that I strongly urge you to read. Especially '10 questions BBC cannot answer'Jun 25 10:36
EruaranrightoJun 25 10:36
schestowitzThe BBC managers posted comments in BN trying to defend themselves.Jun 25 10:36
schestowitzThe BBC blog also linked to us a few time to confess people /are/ aware of the issues.Jun 25 10:36
schestowitzEruaran, do I have /that/ many typos? I just won\t write much this time.Jun 25 10:37
Eruarancan u give me the linkJun 25 10:37
blackrabbitschestowitz, you're jokingJun 25 10:37
schestowitzI have the ID, hold on.Jun 25 10:37
blackrabbitschestowitz, I enjoy the various images you guys have up on your site btwJun 25 10:37
blackrabbitschestowitz, some classic stuff there made me lol quite a few times :DJun 25 10:38
Eruaranoh yes indeedJun 25 10:38
Eruaranso you come for teh lulzJun 25 10:39
Eruaran:)Jun 25 10:39
blackrabbithaJun 25 10:39
blackrabbitno I come as a member of the hidden armyJun 25 10:39
blackrabbitthe nazgul penguinsJun 25 10:40
Eruaranooh nazgul ehJun 25 10:40
EruaranniceJun 25 10:41
blackrabbityupJun 25 10:41
blackrabbitEruaran, hobbit penguins sound too gluttonousJun 25 10:41
EruaranBut Frodo destroy's the ring !Jun 25 10:41
schestowitz<Eruaran>, maybe we should do some Novell LOLcatz?Jun 25 10:42
Eruaranheh yeahJun 25 10:42
blackrabbitEruaran, no, smeagol did in his follyJun 25 10:42
schestowitzIt could repel some readers though.Jun 25 10:42
Eruaranoh... technicalitiesJun 25 10:42
EruaranI guess it mightJun 25 10:42
blackrabbitI would like to see more news media pick up on Microsoft's real history of actionsJun 25 10:43
schestowitzThe video is quite fat (22MB despite low-res)Jun 25 10:43
Eruaranblackrabbit: yes, they wear blindersJun 25 10:44
schestowitzOkay, it's at the front page now. Let me know about broken links (if any)Jun 25 10:44
*moparx has quit ("leaving")Jun 25 10:45
blackrabbitWhen I direct people to boycottnovell's website, they are shocked to discover a site with actual OGG videos!Jun 25 10:49
EruaranhehJun 25 10:51
PetoKrausgrilled?Jun 25 10:52
PetoKraus:)Jun 25 10:52
schestowitzYes, but not BBQ.Jun 25 10:54
blackrabbit?Jun 25 10:57
blackrabbitsomeone cooking?Jun 25 10:57
schestowitzYes, John Pugh. He cooking a Thompson.Jun 25 10:59
schestowitz*He'sJun 25 10:59
PetoKrausthat um ah ah em ah um part is hilariousJun 25 11:03
PetoKrausi meanJun 25 11:05
PetoKrauswhy don't they just make Theora-encoded videos available? That's cheaper... and interoperableJun 25 11:06
PetoKraus:DJun 25 11:06
schestowitzThey have DIRAC, too.Jun 25 11:14
blackrabbitdirac already sounds extinctJun 25 11:14
schestowitzThe BBC operated like a business now. It's driven by partners, not those who are the source of revenue.Jun 25 11:15
schestowitzblackrabbit, they made a mention of it recently, as though it's reborn of pulled off the shelf again.Jun 25 11:15
blackrabbitI hope it takes offJun 25 11:15
EruaranI'm helping a noob reset his x config so his monitor refreshes properlyJun 25 11:18
EruaranMemories of 2005 for me :PJun 25 11:18
PetoKraus:)Jun 25 11:20
EruaranHe's a happy chappy nowJun 25 11:21
schestowitzblackrabbit, that 'Tim Smith' stalker is going all mad in Digg again. Personal attacks and abuse. Maybe I should report him.Jun 25 11:42
blackrabbitschestowitz, you had a stalker?Jun 25 11:43
schestowitzThere are 4 of them in Digg who came from COLA to harass me at Digg with Slander and insults. 'Tim' is one of them and he goes ballistic again.Jun 25 11:44
schestowitzThey make false accusations hoping to have me banned.Jun 25 11:44
blackrabbitschestowitz, are they microsoft henchmen?Jun 25 11:45
schestowitzNot sure if all them are but a professor who has watched this for a while reckon some are Microsoft partners at the very least. None of this is new. They also tried to get me into trouble with existing employers using libel.Jun 25 11:46
blackrabbitschestowitz, go through proper legal channels if they are issuing libel/slanderJun 25 11:47
schestowitzIt's a waste of time. They also hide themselves behind proxies.Jun 25 11:47
blackrabbitI suppose every great mind pushing for freedom experiences such trollsJun 25 11:49
blackrabbitI recall observing many bickering with you on DiggJun 25 11:49
blackrabbiteventually people started to digg your posts down, I suspect these were gangstalkersJun 25 11:50
blackrabbitwhen Digg first started I followed the Linux activity there, but once they opened the pool up to other topics, it was pollutedJun 25 11:50
schestowitz4 people (at least 3 from COLA) dugg down every single comment of mine.Jun 25 11:50
schestowitzHere's a sample. Sit back as I go through memories.Jun 25 11:51
schestowitz(because I hardly participate in Digg these days)Jun 25 11:51
schestowitzIn short: Has Become Microsoft's Nuthouse and Own (Astro) Turf... but other companies ain't much better.Jun 25 11:51
schestowitz[Note: this is a ramble and a rant, so do not expect a very consistent flow of arguments.]Jun 25 11:52
blackrabbitschestowitz, please, don't bother, I read a number of them and I'd rather stay in a positive mood, but thanksJun 25 11:52
blackrabbityou always bested them in replies, anywayJun 25 11:52
schestowitzI hardly replied. Let me put this on the record anyway.Jun 25 11:53
blackrabbitokJun 25 11:53
schestowitzDigg is considered popular, but if you have never been involved or registered  with Digg before, don't bother. I'm not alone. The site's quality has degraded in the most terrible of ways and it's surprising that it still manages to maintain some level of status. In the past I sent out the following E-mail to Digg (consider this an open letter now).Jun 25 11:53
schestowitzBy the way, blackrabbit, PJ told me I need to express and share such stuff publicly for future reference, so here I go.Jun 25 11:53
schestowitzHere is an old E-mail: "Dear Digg, I kindly ask that you check the profile/history of the following users: *flatfish (recently banned from Propeller by the way and had 4 accounts terminated in Digg) *harlowmonkeys *kretik. These people do nothing in Digg but stalking and harassing me. They spread lies about me to. Digg has become highly chaotic and people are turned off by such abusive and compulsive characters."Jun 25 11:54
schestowitzThis is based on observations made by peers too, not just myself. It was getting out of hand.Jun 25 11:54
schestowitzAs I told you earlier, there are 3 or 4 people at the moment who mod all my comments down systematically (and bury my submissions too, I suspect, burial isn't visible).Jun 25 11:55
schestowitzThey are not Diggers. They don't submit. Jun 25 11:55
blackrabbitschestowitz, whenever I visited digg towards the last I saw auto 20-40 digg downs for your posts without many repliesJun 25 11:55
blackrabbitschestowitz, that smelled like a pay off gangstalker group to meJun 25 11:55
blackrabbitbut that's my opinionJun 25 11:55
schestowitzThey came after me from other forums like COLA (Tim Smith, Flatfish and 'Hardron', I think) where they even _admitted doing this_.Jun 25 11:56
blackrabbitit's such bullshit, as people who care and are bright take the time to post and it's almost, well it is censorship, the whole system of such moderation, imo, is brokenJun 25 11:56
blackrabbitwhat is COLA?Jun 25 11:56
schestowitzSo.... I have complained to Digg about this. One of them has already had 3 or 4 accounts terminated, but he keeps creating new ones. It's Gary M Stewart. He came chasing me in other sites too... he buried everything I did and it's visible there by USERNAME (username flatfish, quickly banned)Jun 25 11:57
schestowitzCOLA is comp.os.linux.advocacyJun 25 11:57
blackrabbitoh, newsgroupsJun 25 11:58
schestowitzSome of the account were variations of my name with my avatar stolenJun 25 11:58
blackrabbitpeople still use those?Jun 25 11:58
blackrabbitI thought newsgroups were all spamJun 25 11:58
schestowitzhe posted under me name with E=#, S=5 type variation, pretending that I was gay or something.Jun 25 11:58
blackrabbitpublic ones, at leastJun 25 11:58
schestowitzSome people thought it was my account because he used the same image and a similar nick.Jun 25 11:58
schestowitzSo there comes the point where people lose respect based on libel.Jun 25 11:59
schestowitzIOW, they poison people against their target.Jun 25 11:59
blackrabbitwhy participate in such mediums if you face such onslaught?Jun 25 11:59
schestowitzIt's messy, which is I decided to sort of leave Digg. But they'll get their way if I do, right? Due to their slander, some people think I'm a troll, but need to look elsewhere for evidence, preferably in moderated forums that cannot be abused and gamed.Jun 25 11:59
schestowitzWell, that's why I stopped, blackrabbit  If I submit stories, it's harder to attack me, but Tim Smith does it all the time right now, which is why I brought this up.Jun 25 12:00
blackrabbitschestowitz, ever consider running a tor hidden service forum?Jun 25 12:00
schestowitzThere was a new time of libellous accusation being spread about me at some stafe. They say that I am getting paid to object to the Microsoft/Novell deal. You know, kind of like the lies "PJ gets paid by IBM to write about SCO" or "PJ doesn't exist". These are lies that various try to use to shoot the messenger and create legal risk.Jun 25 12:00
blackrabbitI don't care either way if you're paid or not, you're on the mark.Jun 25 12:01
schestowitzIn general, you are encouraged not to listen to whatever arbitrary Diggers say because some of them are affiliated with companies and I haven't the capacity to squash the lies, let alone keep track of them. Some people still submit 'stories' like 'boycott boycott novell' or 'open letter to roy schestowitz'Jun 25 12:01
schestowitzNo, I don't get paid. PJ told me she can hardly get rent paid, but she loves what she does.Jun 25 12:02
blackrabbitschestowitz, I haven't read Digg in a long, long time.Jun 25 12:02
schestowitzBear this in mind: In the past year, Microsoft has been reguarly ____caught____ paying people to spit out such anti-Linux messages. In case you have not realised, they are also in Digg and the UNIX/Linux section is unsurprisingly losing attraction. Some people stalk and others patrol and complete their round where they mod all my comments down and maybe burying submissions.Jun 25 12:02
blackrabbitschestowitz, yes, many in free open source software work their beliefs rather than selling outJun 25 12:02
schestowitzMicrosoft has been (still does) employing people to do what they call 'marketing' or 'evangelism' (nice words for "astroturfing) at Digg in attempt to defeat honest voices. This includes personal attack and slander. About the latter I have no proof, but Microsoft employees (evangelists) leave comments in ZDNET. They were caught.Jun 25 12:03
blackrabbitschestowitz, I have no doubt certain corporations with deep pockets may afford the luxury of paying people to spread dissent, this is corporate policy on the high rungsJun 25 12:03
blackrabbitschestowitz, now I'm not naming any particular company as I don't like lawsuits, but.. :DJun 25 12:03
schestowitzDo all the lies affect the minds of peers? Well, lies that has been spread about me in Digg have not helped. Some suspicious characters have been in Digg for well over a year usually defending Microsoft and that drive away people who considered them shills.Jun 25 12:04
schestowitzI went to see a lawyer 2 years agoJun 25 12:04
blackrabbitschestowitz, as in the days of OS/2Jun 25 12:04
schestowitzI agree with you, it's pointless but needed just in case. PJ said I should.Jun 25 12:04
schestowitzYes, OS/2 wasn't the end of it.Jun 25 12:04
schestowitzThere are also shills posting in GL. They get banned if interrogated successfully.Jun 25 12:05
schestowitzSee 25 12:05
schestowitzDigg seems to be another lost case where a community site loses control to corporations. Once in a while (although it's rare) people will add a disclaimer to say that they work for the company cited. It's rare. Either way, Digg has become like a battleground for companies and it can no longer be trusted. Just see examples of Microsoft astroturfing from the past year. Time to wake up.Jun 25 12:05
blackrabbitindeedJun 25 12:06
schestowitzSince Digg did not take action against this (they stopped replying to my complaints), I went to other Web site where behaviour is policed. Tux Machines for example...Jun 25 12:06
schestowitzMaybe it's a pet peeve, but I also have an allergy for Digg's FOSS-loving users whose purpose is 'marketing' (user 'ubuntumarketing' in one case!!). Don't we already have enough astroturfers here for proprietary software companies? This was a community Web site, no? At least it used to be. Jun 25 12:07
schestowitzThat's an issue. Some FOSS people do this too.Jun 25 12:07
schestowitzIf it's OK for Linux companies, they are encouraging he others too. The site gets ruined. It's the same with lobbying, which Google too got into.Jun 25 12:08
schestowitzAn 'Internet friend', Michael Larabel once showed me this: 25 12:08
blackrabbitperhaps, but maybe it's fine to cut the pro-linux my-distro-is-my-favorite-all-others-are-less-than-equal and focus on the fact that one company has the potential to scatter the community one company at a time by making pacts and patent agreementsJun 25 12:09
schestowitzHe said to me: "was past 90 diggs with 21 comments, and then it suddenly disappeared from the upcoming area... Argh." It's not an isolated incident. Generally, Digg got vengeance against certain sites.Jun 25 12:09
schestowitzWell, that's the fear anywayJun 25 12:09
schestowitzBoycott Novell also looks at FOSS companies that sell out, the BBC, etc.Jun 25 12:10
schestowitzAnother friend once told me that Firehose in Slashdot is the same. I'm looking in Thunderbird for the quote. "Do you think they are burying stories to the submissions page on slashdot. Is there a way of scripting it or do they have a team. Like my stories disapear almost immediatly .."Jun 25 12:10
schestowitzLater he wrote: "Ya know, there is something really weird going on here.  The firehose story quickly went from violet to blue and then jumped right to red, but now it is yellow.  Red is hot, violet is not, and yellow is just shy of red.  I really do think that there are Microsoft astroturfers who are paid to vote down FOSS stories on both /. and Digg."Jun 25 12:11
schestowitzThe man who wrote this is well known in the FOSS community, but it drove his nuts.Jun 25 12:11
blackrabbitThe key is to examine the post historyJun 25 12:12
blackrabbitSeveral anti-microsoft pro-foss posts eventually hit 0 then go under with timeJun 25 12:12
blackrabbitbut if you don't check on them in the future you lose sightJun 25 12:12
schestowitzIt's a productivity sink.Jun 25 12:13
blackrabbitmany accounts I've seen on digg, slashdot, and others from people who are anti-foss have shady comment historiesJun 25 12:13
blackrabbittrueJun 25 12:13
schestowitzThat same person I mention above was going to point this out to Kevin Rose when doing an interview with himJun 25 12:13
blackrabbitthey know thisJun 25 12:13
schestowitzHe knew Kevin back in the days when he started with a Debian server and no money... the dawn of Digg.Jun 25 12:14
schestowitzHe wrote: "The appeal of Digg has always been its power as an aggregator of the authentic voices of real users.  If the pace of commercialized astroturfing continues, Digg could potentially be seen as a soapbox for advertisers, at which point traffic will decline.  Kevin and Jay, it is in your own commercial best interest to preserve the authentic voices of your real readers."Jun 25 12:14
blackrabbitWhile remaining outside of particulars, let me say that most people, when money enters into the picture, forget philosophies.Jun 25 12:15
schestowitzA different person (professor) later wrote: "That thought occurred to me.  So you have seen the experience first hand!  I wonder why Digg doesn't consider that to be abuse and do something to curb it.  Clearly, if you consistently downrate the same person,you no longer care about the quality of what he posts and it's more of a vindictive, ad hominem attack. "Jun 25 12:15
schestowitz"Surely Digg can do a bit of programming and not allow those people to vote on your articles or, at least, Digg could "downrate" their downratings."Jun 25 12:16
schestowitzYes.Jun 25 12:16
schestowitzI agree with you. It's an illness.Jun 25 12:16
blackrabbitinteresting quotes, thanks for sharingJun 25 12:17
schestowitzThen there's the issue of physical threat. I did receive some threats. Jun 25 12:17
blackrabbit:(Jun 25 12:18
schestowitzPeople know my full postal addresses. It's impossible to hide. In USENET, by the way, Groklaw's old registration details appear as well (very detailed with addresses and everything). She moved houses... it's no secret I guess... and hide all personal details after the O'Gara incident.Jun 25 12:18
schestowitzIt's not hard to harvest data nowadays, no matter how hard you try to hide. I say this because I've seen friends from USENET totally exposed (their ISP apparently left traces). That's how the 'propaganda' folks try to scare away some friends of mine who post anonymously (they use slander and state one's home address, along with threats at times). It's a form of intimisation.Jun 25 12:18
schestowitzI wish you had seen what COLA is like. Recently they attacked everyone, no matter anonymity! They try to get people in trouble with their employers, too.Jun 25 12:19
schestowitzAnyway, to sum up the Digg situation, The *NIX section is dried up. I don't participate much anymore, either. If you look closely enough, then it's clear that the same 4 people track and attack my activity not just in Digg but elsewhere on the Web. They are merely patrolling the site modding down all my comments and then posting slander about me.Jun 25 12:20
blackrabbitsighJun 25 12:20
schestowitzI can't respond to the slander because I don't see their comments. It's akin to a DDOS attack and a distraction tactic. Others are aware of it, so all that 'tinfoil hat' BS won't work for them. Digg chooses to ignore the issue.Jun 25 12:20
blackrabbitschestowitz, thank you for taking the time to go through all of this, I have learned a lot.Jun 25 12:20
schestowitzIf you can, just blocklist those users. All they ever do in Digg is bother me and by responding to them, you make their drivel visible. Anyway, that me finished ranting.Jun 25 12:20
*schestowitz back to writing posts.Jun 25 12:21
blackrabbitschestowitz, I don't visit Digg :DJun 25 12:21
blackrabbitschestowitz, it's a crapflood today, IMOJun 25 12:21
schestowitzIt's true and very sad, but while China 'eliminates' people in-house, other countries kill people overseas, often for oil. So let's not be the pot calling the kettle black.Jun 25 12:21
*blackrabbit has quit ("Leaving")Jun 25 12:21
*blackrabbit (i=Frith@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x59AAEBAA) has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 12:30
*blackrabbit has quit ("Leaving")Jun 25 12:39
schestowitz ... "gMove does not have a patent, but LimitNone and its attorneys, Kelley Drye & Warren, are hoping to prove Google copied the company's trade secrets." WTF is trade secrets here? The translation of mail? More trouble over trademark (5 years late): 25 13:42
*PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Jun 25 15:34
*PetoKraus ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 16:00
*lis` ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 17:14
schestowitzHey, lis` Jun 25 17:32
PetoKrauswhee, freenode is going doooownJun 25 17:34
schestowitz???Jun 25 17:34
PetoKraus-dmwaters- {global notice} Good day all, In a few minutes I'm going to be rebooting one of our main us hubs. This will mean some splitting, but things should come back together rather quickly. Thank you for your patience, and thank you for using freenode!Jun 25 17:35
schestowitzOh, /that/. I saw it earlier. They have some script kiddie on their tail. Maybe one of the botnets, who knows...?Jun 25 17:35
PetoKrausbotnet of script kiddiesJun 25 17:36
PetoKraus;)Jun 25 17:36
schestowitzBotnet’s and You: Save the World — Install Linux 25 17:36
schestowitzTrojans infect 2.6 million systems, looking for gamer credentials  (both found today)Jun 25 17:36
schestowitzWith an estimated 320,000,000 Windows zombies out there, that's what you get.Jun 25 17:37
*PetoKraus has quit ( 25 17:53
*PetoKraus ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 17:53
*[H]omer has quit ( 25 17:54
*[H]omer (n=[H] has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 17:55
* gives channel operator status to [H]omerJun 25 17:55
*lis` has quit ( 25 17:56
*Eruaran has quit ( 25 17:56
*tessier has quit ( 25 17:56
*benJIman has quit ( 25 17:56
*[H]omer has quit ( 25 17:56
*PetoKraus has quit ( 25 17:56
*cozub has quit ( 25 17:56
*ChanServ has quit ( 25 17:56
*[H]omer (n=[H] has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 17:57
*PetoKraus ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 17:57
*cozub (i=[ has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 17:57
*ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 17:57
* gives channel operator status to [H]omer ChanServJun 25 17:57
-NickServ-This nickname is registered. Please choose a different nickname, or identify via /msg NickServ identify <password>.Jun 25 17:57
*ChanServ removes channel operator status from schestowitzJun 25 17:57
*lis` ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 18:01
*Eruaran ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 18:01
*tessier (n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines) has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 18:01
*benJIman ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 18:01
*Eruaran has quit ( 25 18:04
*lis` has quit ( 25 18:04
*tessier has quit ( 25 18:04
*benJIman has quit ( 25 18:04
*lis` ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 18:04
*Eruaran ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 18:04
*tessier (n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines) has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 18:04
*benJIman ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 18:04
PetoKrausFUN!Jun 25 18:09
*Received a CTCP VERSION from freenode-connectJun 25 18:21
*yuhong ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 18:41
yuhongOOXML support: goodJun 25 18:41
yuhongClaiming that it is as open as ODF just because of such support: BADJun 25 18:41
schestowitzOOXML support by whom?Jun 25 18:45
yuhongWhat I mean by "support" is the ability to open and save OOXML files.Jun 25 18:47
schestowitzBut only Microsoft is able to achieve this, don't you agree?Jun 25 18:48
yuhongNo I don't agree with that.Jun 25 18:49
yuhongBut I know that it is certainly not as open as ODF.Jun 25 18:49
PetoKrausthing can be either open or notJun 25 18:50
PetoKrausthere is nothing like half-openJun 25 18:50
PetoKrausif part of the standard is not open, then the standard is not open as a wholeJun 25 18:50
schestowitzyuhong, what do you know about OOXML licensing?Jun 25 18:51
yuhongEven if the patent convnent is completely ineffective, the worst that could happen is that you will have to live without one.Jun 25 18:52
schestowitzWhat would be the impact?Jun 25 18:53
*moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 18:53
yuhongThe impact of a bad convnent would be bad, but no worse than if there is no convnent at all.Jun 25 18:54
schestowitzAsked differently, why do you believe the GPL was excluded deliberately? I wish to test your understanding of this.Jun 25 18:54
schestowitzDo you realise that Microsoft markets OOXML with a useless OSP that excludes rival #1?Jun 25 18:54
yuhongEven if that happens, it is no worse than without the promise.Jun 25 18:55
yuhongBTW, that OSP applies to VHDs, as well as several other specs made by MS.Jun 25 18:56
moparxhey allJun 25 18:56
schestowitzHi, moparx Jun 25 18:56
moparx:)Jun 25 18:57
yuhongI am googling for the OSP right now.Jun 25 18:57
schestowitzyuhong, the GPL is the most popular licence.Jun 25 18:57
schestowitzMicrosoft ignored the majority of developers and lied to the Australian press last week.Jun 25 18:57
yuhongI know about the GPL.Jun 25 18:58
yuhongAnh how it is used in open source.Jun 25 18:58
schestowitzWhy would Microsoft exclude it?Jun 25 18:58
yuhongGPL is often used in open source.Jun 25 18:59
schestowitzIs it fair to establish such a thing as ISO (all the other corruptions and technical issues aside)?Jun 25 18:59
schestowitz_most_ often used even. :-)Jun 25 18:59
yuhongThat is why I consider OOXML less open than ODF.Jun 25 18:59
schestowitzOnly /that/?Jun 25 19:00
yuhongWhat do you mean?Jun 25 19:01
schestowitzThere are other issues. Technical issues, not legal ones.Jun 25 19:01
schestowitzThe corruption and the legal issues are a distraction really.Jun 25 19:02
yuhongI know, and that is another reason why I consider OOXML less open than ODF.Jun 25 19:02
yuhongBut supporting OOXML is no worse than supporting .doc.Jun 25 19:03
schestowitzThe word "open" too is a distraction. OOXML is very defective.Jun 25 19:03
schestowitz.doc will be phased out anyway. It's beside the point.Jun 25 19:03
yuhongAnother reason why I consider OOXML less open than ODF.Jun 25 19:03
yuhongIn fact, the fact that .DOC is being phased out is another reason to support OOXML.Jun 25 19:04
schestowitzAre you in contact with the proceedings of document standards?Jun 25 19:04
yuhongAnd is no worst than supporting .DOC.Jun 25 19:04
yuhongNo I don't.Jun 25 19:04
yuhongFor another example, which is better, Novell SUSE Linux, or Windows.Jun 25 19:05
schestowitzWhy is phasing out of DOC/XLS/whatever a route to OOXML?Jun 25 19:05
schestowitzWindows' future is uncertain for technical reasons. Microsoft acknowledges this too, in private.Jun 25 19:06
yuhongI don't believe that.Jun 25 19:06
yuhongBut I know .DOC is uncertain, XP is uncertain.Jun 25 19:06
yuhongin the long term, that is.Jun 25 19:06
schestowitzYes, and the same goes for anything that faces competition. Governments seem to be choosing ODF; the ones that know better anyway.Jun 25 19:07
yuhongI know.Jun 25 19:07
schestowitzIt is important that you support storage medium/format that will be accessible when Microsoft is gone.Jun 25 19:08
schestowitzPeople will need access to documents also 50 years from now.Jun 25 19:08
yuhongFor archival stuff, certainly.Jun 25 19:09
yuhongAnd moving away from obsolete formats is certainly a good thing here.Jun 25 19:09
yuhongAnd storage mediums get obsolete as well, for example floppy disks.Jun 25 19:10
yuhongIn fact,  the time to move away from DOC will be a good time to adopt ODF.Jun 25 19:11
schestowitzOOXML has one purpose.Jun 25 19:11
schestowitzLockin, in disguise and /perceived/ (bogus) added value.Jun 25 19:12
yuhongEven "embarse and extend" would be a lot better.Jun 25 19:13
schestowitzThey try this with ODF at the moment.Jun 25 19:14
yuhongMaybe, but even that is better than OOXML.Jun 25 19:15
yuhongIn fact, most of what is in ODF that is not in OOXML can be implemented as extensions to ODF, and that is what I perfer.Jun 25 19:15
schestowitzYes, indeed.Jun 25 19:16
schestowitzThe skeleton need to be made universal, at the very least.Jun 25 19:16
yuhongI hope MS is taking this path with the next version of Office.Jun 25 19:17
yuhongRecognizing OOXML as a mistake.Jun 25 19:18
yuhongVista I am kind of neutral onJun 25 19:18
yuhongMS-Novell agreement, it is bad.Jun 25 19:18
schestowitzIt's intended to dilute the value of FOSS, Mac-ification of Linux.Jun 25 19:18
yuhongBut it is more effective to combat it by ensuring that FOSS infringes no software patents.Jun 25 19:20
yuhongThan trying to back out the deal or anything like thatJun 25 19:21
schestowitzWell, it's a bit different from this.Jun 25 19:22
yuhongIndeed that is only one part of the deal and it is the part that is really bad.Jun 25 19:28
schestowitzThe deal was carefully constructed so as to derail a product Microsoft could not compete with (based on /real/ standards, cost, compatibility, etc.)Jun 25 19:29
yuhongThere are other parts of the deal, the FUD is particularly important, but not as bad as this.Jun 25 19:29
yuhongMaybe.Jun 25 19:29
yuhongBut what I am saying is that it is more effective to combat the deal a different way.Jun 25 19:30
yuhongBasically by making sure FOSS does not infridge software patants, thus making the deal ineffective.Jun 25 19:30
yuhongYou see, the patent part of the deal only comes into play if FOSS actually infringe a patent.Jun 25 19:31
schestowitzRMS: "Fighting patents one by one will never eliminate the danger of software patents, any more than swatting mosquitoes will eliminate malaria."Jun 25 19:31
yuhongNo.Jun 25 19:32
schestowitzVery few countries accept software patents.Jun 25 19:33
yuhongBut I am not talking about doing reexamination .Jun 25 19:33
yuhongI know that there are countries that do not have software patents.Jun 25 19:34
yuhongI am talking about making sure that Linux does not infringe any, making part of the deal useless.Jun 25 19:34
schestowitzMicrosoft won't say a thing about it. It's better to keep 95%+ of the world free from s/w patents. That's how it is now, but the corrupt people work hard to change it.Jun 25 19:36
yuhongyepJun 25 19:36
yuhongI am talking about making sure that Linux does not infringe any, making part of the deal useless.Jun 25 19:36
schestowitzMicrosoft will not tell what it claims... it may have never checked, either.Jun 25 19:37
yuhongIndeed making sure Linux does not infringe any patents will not stop the FUD.Jun 25 19:38
yuhongThat is why you need to be aware of it.Jun 25 19:38
schestowitzMicrosoft beaks the law in some places. It's slanderous. Not to worry though because its reputation is down the gutter at the moment.Jun 25 19:39
yuhongI know.Jun 25 19:39
yuhongAnd do you why MS is not so innovative.Jun 25 19:40
yuhongGo back to MS-DOS.Jun 25 19:40
schestowitzThe Gates markting glorification tour?Jun 25 19:40
yuhongIt was not innovative at all, but made MS a lot of money.Jun 25 19:40
schestowitzThe sabotage?Jun 25 19:40
yuhongSometimes the only option is to reexamine the patent, like the FAT patents.Jun 25 19:41
yuhongBut other times Linux can be modified to not infridge the patent.Jun 25 19:42
schestowitzIt's a waste of time. It's better to squash the rotten part of the system. It's already imploding anyway, and not just in the USJun 25 19:42
yuhongIndeed getting rid of all software patents would be better.Jun 25 19:43
yuhongAnd better than trying to back out the deal.Jun 25 19:45
yuhongIn fact, I said that before.Jun 25 19:46
schestowitzIt's too late really.Jun 25 19:47
yuhongAnother reason why backing out software patents is better.Jun 25 19:47
schestowitzPractically speaking, Novell needs to be split in the sense that OSUSE devs and others should go elsewhere and leave Novell to 'rot' with its legacy and Microsoft.Jun 25 19:47
yuhongeliminating software patents is better than boycotting novell.Jun 25 19:49
yuhongBecause boycotting novell eliminates only one part of the problem.Jun 25 19:50
schestowitzNo, not quite.Jun 25 19:50
yuhongI mean, even without the deal, what if Linux is being sued by Microsoft.Jun 25 19:51
schestowitzJust to explain this quickly: it's Novell and others who are willing to use their patents (or bribed) to use the bad system to their advantage against Free softwareJun 25 19:51
schestowitzWithout the likes of Novell, the ills of the system would be more conveniently ignored.Jun 25 19:51
yuhongYep, and even without the deal, it can happen.Jun 25 19:52
schestowitzSuing Linux is like suing the sky.Jun 25 19:52
yuhongWhat do you mean?Jun 25 19:52
schestowitzMicrosoft can't pull an SCO directly, either. It would get buries.Jun 25 19:52
schestowitz*buried.Jun 25 19:52
yuhongJust to be clear, the deal only is effective if Linux is actually being sued.Jun 25 19:54
yuhongIf Novell can't sue, the deal effectively has no effect.Jun 25 19:55
yuhongWhich is why getting rid of software patents is better.Jun 25 19:55
schestowitzNo, you forget about patent trolls. Microsoft has a few of them lying around.Jun 25 19:55
yuhongGetting rid of software patents would get rid of that as well.Jun 25 19:56
schestowitzThat's true too, but the system is corrupt in some countries, so reversing the law is almost impossible.Jun 25 19:58
yuhongWhich is why I now recommend making sure Linux infringe no patents instead.Jun 25 19:59
yuhongViglience is important here.Jun 25 19:59
yuhongBecause if Linux infringe no patents, the deal is useless.Jun 25 20:00
schestowitzLinux infringes no /known/ patents.Jun 25 20:01
-ChanServ-You have been opped on #boycottnovell by [H]omerJun 25 20:01
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzJun 25 20:01
yuhongAnd people would not have to worry about not being able to use Linux because of patent issues at all.Jun 25 20:01
-ChanServ-You have been opped on #slated by [H]omerJun 25 20:02
[H]omerevening allJun 25 20:02
yuhongOne patent I know that Linux probably infringes is the MS FAT patent.Jun 25 20:02
schestowitzHowdyJun 25 20:03
[H]omerWhat's happening?Jun 25 20:03
schestowitzMS FAT? Who talked about Ballmer?Jun 25 20:03
yuhongI am afraid the only option for that patent is to reexamine the patent.Jun 25 20:03
yuhongPUBPAT tried it in 2004 but failed.Jun 25 20:03
schestowitzMicrosoft owns the double-click too, but it wouldn't stand in court.Jun 25 20:04
[H]omeri thought that was amazonJun 25 20:04
yuhongNo it wouldn't.Jun 25 20:04
yuhong 25 20:04
yuhongWhen was the double-click patent issued.Jun 25 20:05
schestowitzA long time ago.Jun 25 20:05
schestowitzBut FAT had some issue in the EU. I don't care much about the US.Jun 25 20:05
schestowitzThat's where the RIAA last week replaced a judge because he wasn't convenient enough for the /make available' madness.Jun 25 20:05
yuhongMS has a patent on UAC, but since it is a clone of sudo, it would not hold up in court.Jun 25 20:06
yuhongWhen was the double-click patent issued exactly.Jun 25 20:07
schestowitzI can't recall, but it's too trivialJun 25 20:07
schestowitzIt's like patenting morse code.Jun 25 20:07
[H]omerInteresting quote from that link: "Under the terms of the Free Software Foundation's General Public License, Linux cannot be distributed if it contains patented technology that requires royalty payments."Jun 25 20:08
[H]omerSomeone should tell CanonicalJun 25 20:08
schestowitzFrom CNET?Jun 25 20:08
[H]omerYupJun 25 20:09
yuhongUAC is a clone of sudoJun 25 20:09
yuhongAnd yet what gets the most criticism.Jun 25 20:09
yuhongUAC or sudo.Jun 25 20:10
schestowitzIs the article new, [H]omer?Jun 25 20:11
[H]omerMost of the NT/2K/XP/Vista is a clone of VMS (ex-VMS engineers designed it)Jun 25 20:11
[H]omerJanuary 10, 2006 3:08 PM PSTJun 25 20:11
[H]omerVista's redesign is just DRM (crap like Protected Media Path) and a new paint job (Aero)Jun 25 20:13
schestowitzOh, I see... I'm in KNode at the moment, so no browser. Thanks.Jun 25 20:13
[H]omerAnd a whole lotta bloat too, of courseJun 25 20:13
[H]omerWindows 7 will be even worseJun 25 20:13
schestowitzI was just about t0 post this to COLA: 25 20:13
yuhongI donJun 25 20:15
yuhongI don't believe all that talk about Vista.Jun 25 20:15
[H]omerRemember the "Fritz Chip"Jun 25 20:16
schestowitzyuhong, what specifically don't you believe?Jun 25 20:16
yuhongI am neutral on Vista.Jun 25 20:17
yuhongYou see.Jun 25 20:17
yuhongThe TPM can be used for more than just PalladiumJun 25 20:17
schestowitzThat's like saying that shit can be also used to generate fuel. :-)Jun 25 20:18
yuhongIt can.Jun 25 20:18
yuhongBitLocker is an example.Jun 25 20:18
schestowitzIt has a back door. Useless.Jun 25 20:19
yuhongI don't think so.Jun 25 20:19
yuhongFor example, UAC is a clone of sudo.Jun 25 20:19
yuhongAnd yet what gets the most criticism, UAC or sudo, and why?Jun 25 20:19
[H]omerGood video about "trusted" computing: 25 20:20
schestowitzYou miss the point that sudo does not stand in the way excessively.Jun 25 20:20
schestowitzSee what RMS calls it: treacherous computingJun 25 20:20
[H]omerYeah, I can use Linux for weeks without ever needing root accessJun 25 20:20
yuhongAnd UAC shouldn't either.Jun 25 20:20
[H]omerTry that on WindowsJun 25 20:20
yuhongIt can be in theory be done.Jun 25 20:21
[H]omerNot in practice thoughJun 25 20:21
[H]omerAnd it's that root access that cause all of Windows security issues like virusesJun 25 20:22
yuhongYep.Jun 25 20:22
[H]omerUAC does not seem to have helped muchJun 25 20:22
yuhongI am not really sure.Jun 25 20:22
[H]omerNor the TPMJun 25 20:22
[H]omerIME most people just turn off UAC because it's a painJun 25 20:22
schestowitzCan't set up a printer without it.Jun 25 20:23
[H]omerThus completely defeating the pointJun 25 20:23
yuhongWhat I mean is that if you strip UAC to the fundementals, that it is a clone of sudo.Jun 25 20:23
schestowitzyuhong, see this: 25 20:24
[H]omerYes indeed, but Microsoft's implementation is completely broken, which is why everyone just turns it offJun 25 20:24
yuhongNo it isn't.Jun 25 20:24
PetoKrausi'd sayJun 25 20:24
PetoKrausthe implementation is not brokenJun 25 20:24
yuhongMost of the problems are not in the implementation.Jun 25 20:24
PetoKrausit's the 3rd party developers fault as wellJun 25 20:24
yuhongYep.Jun 25 20:24
PetoKrausbut againJun 25 20:24
PetoKrausthat's problem of microsoftJun 25 20:25
PetoKrausstop supporting legacy code, and half of those things will vanishJun 25 20:25
yuhongMS can't do that, of course.Jun 25 20:25
PetoKrauswhy?Jun 25 20:25
PetoKrauswhy can't it do it the same way as Mac Os X transition went?Jun 25 20:25
PetoKrausputting legacy code in a, basically, safe sandboxed systemJun 25 20:26
[H]omerFar too much of what Windows does requires root access, so having a sudo type implementation is useless until Windows can be redesigned to work less promiscuouslyJun 25 20:26
[H]omerLike LinuxJun 25 20:26
yuhongYes, MS could replace the userspace, in fact the kernel have subsystems to help here.Jun 25 20:26
yuhongBut it is not likely.Jun 25 20:27
PetoKrausit won't do that, since it'll lose supportJun 25 20:27
PetoKrausit'll be too much work to port older apps (Win32-based) to... eg... .NETJun 25 20:27
[H]omerMicrosoft's best hope lies in the "Singularity Project", but that is mainly about threading, not securityJun 25 20:27
yuhongYep, remember the VB6 to VB.NET transition.Jun 25 20:27
schestowitzThey have SUSE.Jun 25 20:28
yuhongNot likely.Jun 25 20:29
yuhongYes the implementation has some differences.Jun 25 20:29
yuhongDifferent defaults, for exampleJun 25 20:29
[H]omerAnyway, Microsoft's technical problems do not concern me in the least. That's /their/ problem. It's their /political/ interference with the rest of IT (and Free Software in particular) that concerns me.Jun 25 20:30
yuhongIndeed I mentioned it only because the fact UAC is a clone of sudo make MS's UAC patents invalid.Jun 25 20:32
yuhongAlso I don't believe in many of MS's technical problem.Jun 25 20:32
*yuhong has quit ("ChatZilla [Firefox 3.0/2008052906]")Jun 25 20:38
PetoKrausd'ohJun 25 21:11
PetoKraus 25 21:11
PetoKraussilverlight.,... :/Jun 25 21:11
schestowitzMiguel luvs...Jun 25 21:12
PetoKrausi tried to follow the linksJun 25 21:15
PetoKrausepiphany didn't even care about silverlight installationJun 25 21:15
PetoKrausffx 2 shown animation - would you like to install silverlightJun 25 21:16
schestowitzThe EU is studying this (albeit too slowly)Jun 25 21:17
cozubI just ordered my Free Runner :DJun 25 21:30
cozublooks way nicer than Android, freedom-wiseJun 25 21:30
PetoKraushmm i am thinking about playing thisJun 25 21:31
PetoKraushttp://dunelegacy.sourceforg...Jun 25 21:31
schestowitzcozub, Openmoko just signed a deal with 5 distributors!Jun 25 21:34
schestowitzI'll post some links to news shortly.Jun 25 21:34
cozubwell, I'm part of the CZ-SK group orderJun 25 21:35
cozuband we got info from german distributor the phones arrivedJun 25 21:35
cozub(this is unverified, unofficial, btw. :)Jun 25 21:35
schestowitzI remember Openmoko getting a deal in Germany too. About 2 months ago...Jun 25 21:36
cozubofficially I don't seem to be able to find any "sales begin" announcementJun 25 21:36
cozubpulster.seJun 25 21:36
cozubee, .deJun 25 21:36
schestowitzBruce Perens is enthused about it.Jun 25 21:36
cozuben... what? :)Jun 25 21:37
cozubok, I mis-typed in dictionary, sorryJun 25 21:37
cozubI've been waiting for one since oct., so... I'm "begeistert" :)Jun 25 21:38
schestowitzI know someone who wants to develop for it.Jun 25 21:39
cozubI plan to develop for that too...Jun 25 21:39
cozubthere are some things I find annoying bout all the phones I've ever had... now I can change it :)Jun 25 21:40
schestowitzOr port your desktop apps to it, for others to enjoy too....Jun 25 21:40
cozubwell, I've got some apps-ideas and some phone-related ideas, like better sms handling etc.Jun 25 21:41
cozubit's all a question of how much free time I haveJun 25 21:41
schestowitzNeuros turns out to have a irc channel for devs...Jun 25 21:42
schestowitzRead about it some hours ago... similar project.Jun 25 21:42
cozubneuros? I know they are producing some friendly-licensed video recored thingJun 25 21:43
schestowitzYes, PVR and beyond.Jun 25 21:43
schestowitzHardware is not as open, I think, but mods are allowed.Jun 25 21:44
cozubI wonder how does android turn out SW-wise... I guess google takes the "pragmatic" approach - they don't mind HW vendors/OEMs providing binary-only crapJun 25 21:44
cozubI haven't investogate much, I think I read somewhere they encourage SW-hacking, @ leastJun 25 21:44
schestowitzOpenmoko Signs Five Distributors for Freerunner Open Source Mobile Phone 25 21:44
cozubbtw. I've recently had an experience with symbian at work... It make me even more look forward my Free Runner :)Jun 25 21:45
cozubbc. symbian is a DRM & sign-to-run hellJun 25 21:45
schestowitzWindows DRM, I presume (if from Nokia...)Jun 25 21:45
cozubwell, I kept my hands off so I don't know DRM details, byt overall I was quite disgusted by the platformJun 25 21:46
cozubI really dislike it when HW manufacturers don't let you (after you BOUGHT the device from them) do with i what you wantJun 25 21:47
schestowitzLike Nintendo and XBox.Jun 25 21:47
schestowitzTo an extend, Sony/PS3 also...Jun 25 21:47
schestowitz*extentJun 25 21:47
cozubso even though the Free Runner could be way better HW-wise, I'm buying it for the freedomJun 25 21:48
schestowitzWell, as a developer you depend on the manufacturer. Look at Palm.Jun 25 21:49
cozubhm?Jun 25 21:50
schestowitzLots of apps there. 30,000 for Palm OSJun 25 21:52
*schestowitz says goodnightJun 25 22:16
*PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))Jun 25 22:16
cozubgood nightJun 25 22:18
*lis` has quit ("baibai<3")Jun 25 22:36
*lis` ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 25 22:41
tessier_ 25 22:48
tessier_schestowitz: You seen that one yet?Jun 25 22:48

Recent Techrights' Posts

Gemini at 3,800+
total number of known capsules at above 3.8k
IBM Sends Money to Microsoft
Red Hat basically helps sponsor the company that's a attacking our community
Mozilla Firefox is Back in ~2% Territories, Jeopardising Its Status as Web Browser to Test/Target/Validate With
Some new stats
Now Only Has Adoption of Windows Vista 11 Flatlined/Plateaued, Now It is Going Down!
Did many people delete Vista 11 and install GNU/Linux instead?
[Meme] Russian Standards of Law: The Executive Branch Decides Everything
the president's kangaroo court
Up Next: The Tricky Relationship Between the Administrative Tribunal of the ILO and the European Patent Organisation (EPO)
We've moved from presidents who run a republic by consent to corrupt, unqualified, dictatorial officials who bribe for the seat (buying the votes)
IRC Proceedings: Saturday, March 02, 2024
IRC logs for Saturday, March 02, 2024
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
Beware Imposter Sites of Techrights (Not or
Only trust pages accessed through the domains controlled by us
Italy visa & residence permit: Albanian Outreachy, Wikimedia & Debian tighten control over woman
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Be a Navalny
We salute Mr. Navalny
Links 02/03/2024: Actual Journalists Under Attack, More Software Patents Being Challenged
Links for the day
Gemini Links 02/03/2024: NixOS on GPD, Meson Woes
Links for the day
statCounter March 2024 Statistics (Preliminary)
Notice Asia
Links 02/03/2024: More Lawsuits Against Microsoft, Facebook Killing Hard-To-Find News
Links for the day
ZDNet (Red Ventures) Works for Microsoft (Redmond), Many Of Its Pages Are Spam/Advertisements Paid for by Microsoft
Here is the "smoking gun"
Wikipedia Demotes CNET Due to Chatbot-Generated Spew as 'Articles'; It Should Do the Same to ZDNet (Also Red Ventures, Also Microsoft Propaganda)
Redmond Ventures?
The Direction WordPress (GPL) Has Taken is an Embarrassment
it comes with strings attached
When the Cancer 'Metastasises'
We had a red flag
March in Techrights (EPO Litigation and More)
One theme we'll explore a lot when it comes to GNU/Linux is the extent to which communities truly serve communities
Don't Forget to Also Follow Tux Machines
We've split the material
Yandex Usage Has Surged Since the Invasion of Ukraine, Microsoft Fell to 0.7% (It Was 1.7% Before the 'Bing Chat' Hype Campaign)
In Soviet Russia, Bing searches user
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Friday, March 01, 2024
IRC logs for Friday, March 01, 2024
Sellout Completed: Linux Foundation Converging With the Gates Foundation
not a joke
Hitler Rants Parodies on Steve Ballmer
Parody created using clips from Downfall (Der Untergang)
With Windows This Low (27% of the "OS" Market), Steve Ballmer Would Have Thrown Another Chair
The media produced many puff pieces about Nadella at 10 (as CEO), but what has he done for Windows? Nothing.
[Meme] The Naked President
EPO Suffers From Shrinkage
Attacks on the EPC: Reality and Fiction
EPO leaks
Understanding Cardinal George Pell prosecution, Institutional abuse & Debian cybertorture
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Links 01/03/2024: Many More Layoffs, "Funerals" for Software Patents in the US
Links for the day
Gemini Links 01/03/2024: OFFLFIRSOCH 2024 and Dark Streets Tech Demo
Links for the day
Links 01/03/2024: Navalny Funeral and Media Under Attack
Links for the day
Gemini Links 01/03/2024: Making Art and the Concept of Work Management
Links for the day
Schriftleitergesetz: Hiding the Holocaust with censorship
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
[Meme] His Lips Moved
Here is your national "news" for today
statCounter: GNU/Linux Exceeded 6% in Asia Last Month (Compared to 4% Just 12 Months Earlier)
numbers may be biased
What the End of Journalism Looks Like
All on the same day
Links 01/03/2024: Microsoft 'Retiring' More Services and Raspberry Pi Celebrates 3rd Birthday (Launched on February 29th, 2012)
Links for the day
Women's Empowerment
Sponsored by Bill Gates
Gemini Links 01/03/2024: Speed Bumps and Analog Stuff
Links for the day
[Meme] Those Greedy EPO Examiners
Says the litigation industry, charging 300 euros an hour per attorney
EPO Discriminates Against Families of Its Own Workers, the Union Explains Legal Basis Upon Which It's Likely Illegal and Must be Challenged
To the Council, the EPO boasts about its wealth (seeking to impress by how much breaking the law "pays off")
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Thursday, February 29, 2024
IRC logs for Thursday, February 29, 2024
Links 01/03/2024: Misuse of Surveillance Against UK-Based Journalism, EPO Conflict Now in the Media
Links for the day
Taking a Break From Paid Promotion of the Illegal, Unconstitutional Kangaroo Court for Patents (UPC)
JUVE returns to its 'roots'?