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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: June 28th-30th, 2008



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RogerBaconOMFGJun 28 03:34
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schestowitzhttp://www.ajc.com/business/conte... "These excellent computer programs are free [...]Ubuntu is an operating system based on Linux (as is the Macintosh OS). It shares many of the advantages and requires less horsepower from a PC. If you have an old PC that's not up to Windows Vista or even XP, give this a try."Jun 28 07:41
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schestowitz[H]omer, I've made an Ogg from your E17 demo: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0...Jun 28 22:06
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schestowitzDoes anyone know a seller in the UK that does triple-head PCs? I want to buy a new one, but not sure where to look. Would rather avoid Dell....Jun 29 14:34
moparxcould always build one :)Jun 29 17:21
benJImanBuy two graphics cards, three monitors.Jun 29 17:23
benJImanGood luck with that without having to use proprietary graphics drivers on linux though.Jun 29 17:23
schestowitzI found this one shop in London.Jun 29 17:30
schestowitzI am quite strict when it comes to avoiding Intel and I found some AMD offer (quad core). Avoiding NVidia is fashionable only after last week's response to the kernel hackers and the complaints from KDE developers. It's too hard to avoid too many companies. ;-)Jun 29 17:32
schestowitzOk. PC just bought. ;-)Jun 29 21:07
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cozubmorgenJun 30 07:37
schestowitzMorning, cozub, how are you?Jun 30 07:38
cozubtired after busy weekend :)Jun 30 07:38
cozubhow are you?Jun 30 07:39
schestowitzThe world appears to have stood still in the past few days, so not much to report. I took advantage of the free time and got some things done. I'm also going to change some habits so that I can spend more time writing.Jun 30 07:40
PetoKrausahaJun 30 07:41
PetoKraussleep less, eat only twice a day, right?Jun 30 07:41
cozublol :)Jun 30 07:42
schestowitzThat was already the case -- almost.Jun 30 07:42
schestowitzWhat I had in mind rather is working from one place instead of two (home+office).Jun 30 07:42
cozubI have a heretic question: Is avoiding Intel the right thing to do? afaik their intel gfx support is the best; or at least was...Jun 30 07:42
PetoKrauswell, it isn't anymoreJun 30 07:43
cozubI've had my deal of suffering with ATI gfx cards in linux (uf!)Jun 30 07:43
PetoKraustheir driver is completely openJun 30 07:43
cozubso I'm a bit reluctant to try them againJun 30 07:43
cozubyeahJun 30 07:43
schestowitzThey do some things for the kernel, but overall here's the beef:Jun 30 07:43
PetoKrausbut on the other hand, it doesn't support XvideoJun 30 07:43
schestowitzIntel is to hardware what Microsoft wanted to become to s/w.Jun 30 07:43
PetoKrausand they don't open the specificationsJun 30 07:43
cozubno xv?Jun 30 07:43
PetoKrausyes.Jun 30 07:43
schestowitzIt's already very hard to find a PC without Intel, but that's now the point. it's how they got there. They bribes.Jun 30 07:43
PetoKrausat least on IGMA'sJun 30 07:44
schestowitz*bribed. I've watched this for years and it's despicable.Jun 30 07:44
cozubso is AMD/ATI the way to go?Jun 30 07:44
PetoKrauswell, i'd say soJun 30 07:44
schestowitzBut you don't have to take my word. Listen to several continents that had them convicted, with evidence.Jun 30 07:44
schestowitzIntel, Novell and Microsoft are very different monsters. For example, changing O/S is hard whereas changing CPU is not; the same goes for Linux distros.Jun 30 07:45
schestowitzThat in fact is the reason why avoiding Novell's Linux should be more than trivial.Jun 30 07:45
PetoKrausin terms of GPU's, AMD is better than Intel, their opensource drivers are great if you don't need 3D, AMD own proprietary driver is getting on-par (feature-wise) with Windows driver, they provide you with 1st-day support with new cards, and they are really opening up the specificationsJun 30 07:46
cozubwell, I don't need 3d, but it's nice to have in case you get bored and want to relax your mind in a 5-min tuxracer ride :)Jun 30 07:46
cozubin a box I bought last year, for my younger brother, who's into all the 3d fancy stuff, I bought a nvidia; bc of all the bad experiences with atiJun 30 07:47
schestowitzI tried to get an ATI (AMD) card, but couldn't get it _all_ (ATI+AMD+Linux), so I compromised and got an NVidia card I'll probably get a second GPU for a triple-head, but I wonder if ATI and NVidia will mix well. It's that dreadful x config again.Jun 30 07:47
cozubbut nvidia has a host of problems of its ownJun 30 07:47
PetoKrausthen either wait few weeks till the R500 direct rendering slips to stable mesa/Xserver/ati/radeonhd driversJun 30 07:47
cozubschestowitz: indeedJun 30 07:48
cozubwell, I'm about to buy a laptop; but it can wait a month or twoJun 30 07:48
PetoKrausheheJun 30 07:48
PetoKrausthe switch to open driver is fairly easy... ;) i tried it week ago on my gentoo, so, it's nice and easyJun 30 07:49
schestowitzI'm still not sure which distro to try.Jun 30 07:49
*PetoKraus has Mobility Radeon X1400Jun 30 07:49
schestowitz*has a Radeon at work.Jun 30 07:49
cozubI have some Mobility Radeon in my work laptop too and ubuntu works well with thatJun 30 07:50
PetoKrausit depends which serie it is...Jun 30 07:50
cozubthe only issue is that when I use a 3d appthe screen blinks when using compiz... but that's a general issue I've heard...Jun 30 07:50
*schestowitz too scared to try Gentoo, long-termJun 30 07:50
cozubI'm using gentoo in one of my boxes and I like itJun 30 07:50
PetoKrausup to R500, direct rendering is supported by Xorg ati driver.Jun 30 07:51
cozubI like it more than debian...Jun 30 07:51
cozubbtw. I set up debian on nokia's N810 during the weekend... not that it would be too difficult ;)Jun 30 07:51
schestowitzJust found this a minute ago: http://linuxtoday.com/news_st...Jun 30 07:52
schestowitzLinked not directly so that you can see the comments. SJVN has been preying on them for about  a week.Jun 30 07:52
schestowitzcozub, it runs Debian by default. :-)Jun 30 07:53
cozubschestowitz: well, it runs maemo; it is based on deb., but it's with lots of nokia proprietary fluffJun 30 07:54
cozubbut it's well-tuned for the device; unlike plain debianJun 30 07:54
schestowitzProprietary? That's new to me. Sounds like Remix.Jun 30 07:54
cozub> Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80040e14'Jun 30 07:54
cozubat the top of the page :)Jun 30 07:54
schestowitzYes, seen thatJun 30 07:54
schestowitzIt's an off-site job adverts site. Brian got tons of flak for it.Jun 30 07:55
cozubwell, I have to say I haven't investigated deeply; hildon is open; but I think there are some proprietary partsJun 30 07:55
schestowitzI bet they include some codecs, but I don't know for sure. I'm still using a Palm Tungsten -- well, using is an overstatement because I hardly touch it anymore. It's more of an address book and password manager.Jun 30 07:56
cozubwell, they do have flash and skypeJun 30 07:57
schestowitzOuch. Watch http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_sto... . SJVN is really being misinformed.Jun 30 07:57
schestowitzBecause of Flash alone I'm worried about going 64-bit. I know there are workarounds, but still...Jun 30 07:58
cozubyeah, flash and java...Jun 30 07:59
cozubbut here's a workaround: http://gwenole.beauchesne.info//...Jun 30 08:00
cozubI think it's present by default in ubuntu and it was easy to set up in gentoo tooJun 30 08:00
cozubstill I don't understand why are the no 64bit versions :-/Jun 30 08:00
schestowitzI can't help but feel that the binary culture of Wintel held computing back so significantly for their gain ($$)Jun 30 08:01
schestowitzAdobe will make 64-bit versions soon, according to something I read. That's the impression I got anyway.Jun 30 08:01
schestowitzHad it not been for the shift away from code, we'd probably all be using an uber-reliable Gentoo.Jun 30 08:02
cozubthey finally set up 64bit gcc on their devel boxes? :))Jun 30 08:02
PetoKrausschestowitz: shift away from code?Jun 30 08:02
schestowitzYeah, I meant to binary distribution.Jun 30 08:03
PetoKrausahaJun 30 08:03
schestowitz"You'll have choice, between white an d vanilla white"Jun 30 08:03
schestowitzThere's also less room for exploration, innovation, research and dev-wise. Why can't we use Cell on the desktop?Jun 30 08:03
schestowitzcozub, I realise that we have gone off topic, but since you mentioned Maemo, consider the fact that SLED/Novell is heading down a similar route. It's the same with IBM which seems to like (maybe arranged) this deal. IBM has this idea of 'Open' clients (proprietary) on top of Linux. Jun 30 08:13
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PetoKrausroy, nice article about patentsJun 30 16:49
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schestowitzPetoKraus, thanks for that. [just got back from the gym]Jun 30 18:20
kentm1Greetings from munichJun 30 18:31
kentm1Es ist nicht so kalt hier!Jun 30 18:32
schestowitzMuch drinking over there today? Summer time.Jun 30 18:34
kentm1Hope so soon :-)Jun 30 18:35
kentm1Anywayy, see you laterJun 30 18:36
schestowitzLater, kentm1 Jun 30 18:36
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schestowitzHi, moparx Jun 30 18:42
moparxheyJun 30 18:42
schestowitzI haven't posted much stuff recently. It seems like many writers just take advantage of a break. The IRC channel has been quiet too.Jun 30 18:43
moparxit happens from time to timeJun 30 18:46
schestowitzIt serves me well because I'll probably need to set up a new PC tomorrow.Jun 30 18:47
moparxwhat did you end up getting?Jun 30 18:48
schestowitzDual-core AMD. I wonder if I can survive on a  64-bit desktop.Jun 30 18:50
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schestowitzMSBBC, Meet Neelie: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/0...Jun 30 19:40
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RogerBaconhi thereJun 30 22:58
schestowitzHowdy, RogerBacon .Jun 30 22:58
RogerBaconhow are you doing ?Jun 30 22:59
schestowitzI'm all right, thanks. Posting a chunk of links to BN.com at the moment.Jun 30 22:59
RogerBaconmm..kJun 30 23:00
RogerBaconim just messing around with ms visual studioJun 30 23:00
RogerBaconmy head will certainly explose ! ;) (never used it before) it's quite easy throught except some feature im looking at ..Jun 30 23:01
schestowitzI think I touched it many years ago when I needed to compile a project (just once) to make a Win32 executable.Jun 30 23:02
RogerBaconit's a pretty nice IDE :)Jun 30 23:04
RogerBaconjust buyed *cought* it yesturday :PJun 30 23:04
schestowitzWell, it's a mature product but there are many others that are free, cheaper, and cross-platform.Jun 30 23:04
schestowitzTrolltech's tools were good (now Nokia)Jun 30 23:05
RogerBaconcompletly agree, im just a beginnerJun 30 23:05
RogerBaconso.. used code::block only one timeJun 30 23:05
RogerBaconand ** emacs :)Jun 30 23:05
schestowitzemacs is for experienced one that juggle with it well.Jun 30 23:06
schestowitzFather of Java urged them to use something like NetBeans.Jun 30 23:06
RogerBacon;)Jun 30 23:08
RogerBaconsomeone here have alerady used sql server ?Jun 30 23:08
schestowitzSpeaking of IDEs, Novell has one too. Guess who it serves?Jun 30 23:08
RogerBacon.NET :)Jun 30 23:09
RogerBaconmono-develop i think, no ?Jun 30 23:09
schestowitzYes.Jun 30 23:09
RogerBaconDo you have any idea what is Windows Presentation FoundatioN ?!Jun 30 23:13
RogerBaconokayJun 30 23:14
schestowitzNovell's de Icaza seems to have been fascinated about it more recently. What WON'T Novell do for coupon LUV? Well, it's part of the whole XAML/Silverlight stack. Everyone in FOSS fights it; Novell tries to make it the 'standards' on the face of it.Jun 30 23:14
RogerBaconsilverlight ?Jun 30 23:15
RogerBaconMicrosoft Silverlight is a web browser plugin that provides support for rich internet applications such as animation, vector graphics and audio-video playback. Silverlight competes with products such as Adobe Flash, Adobe Flex, Adobe Shockwave, JavaFX, and Apple QuickTime. Now in beta-testing, version 2.0 brings improved interactivity and support for .NET languages and development tools.Jun 30 23:15
schestowitzNot exactly, but they want to deliver applications over the Web.Jun 30 23:15
RogerBaconseem good :PJun 30 23:15
RogerBaconwait a sec, asp.net can't do that ?Jun 30 23:16
schestowitzSilverlight is an attempt to turn the Web into MS junk that puts Windows in charge. It's bad enough for antitrust probes (ongoing).Jun 30 23:17
cozubjust btw. I happen to use M$ visual studio @ workJun 30 23:17
cozub(now I hope not to be kickbanned for that :)Jun 30 23:17
cozubthis being said... I initiated the port of our app to linux, at least :)Jun 30 23:17
RogerBaconwho use linux anyway :P ?Jun 30 23:18
RogerBaconkiddingJun 30 23:18
cozubme? :-PJun 30 23:18
cozubbtw. I switched to xfce today... seems niceJun 30 23:18
RogerBaconi jsut switched to windowsJun 30 23:19
RogerBaconits not badJun 30 23:19
cozubthis is a year of breaking my old habits - I kissed slackware goodbye; now I kissed window maker goodbe too :)Jun 30 23:19
RogerBaconeitherJun 30 23:19
cozubRogerBacon: depends on what you objectives are, I guessJun 30 23:19
cozubif you like freedom and tweakability, windows failJun 30 23:20
schestowitzRogerBacon, you can use several. I personally just use Linux everywhere, but some people virtualise WIndows on top of Linux.Jun 30 23:21
RogerBaconseriously, i'm learning C#, and windows for the moment it's the easyest plateformJun 30 23:21
cozubhmJun 30 23:21
RogerBaconi dont want to think about monoJun 30 23:21
RogerBaconfor the momentJun 30 23:21
RogerBaconbut on my main couputer i use gentoo now ;)Jun 30 23:22
cozubc#, as in the language... is interesting in parts, but I dropped it after writing hellow world in itJun 30 23:22
RogerBaconthis one it's a media center based pcJun 30 23:22
cozubhuhJun 30 23:22
schestowitzI've just posted tonight's links and I'm off to bed. I'll catch up in the morning.Jun 30 23:22
RogerBaconcozub : why 6Jun 30 23:22
cozubmainly bc of the patent trap it isJun 30 23:23
RogerBaconmircorosft is not supposed to open the .net framework in the next year ?Jun 30 23:23
cozubhuh? :)Jun 30 23:23
cozubI don't knwo what they are/are not supposed to do, but I don't trust anything they say they do unless they do it and it's found to be what they say it is :)Jun 30 23:24
schestowitzNo, it's shared source. Marketing purposes.Jun 30 23:25
schestowitzFor your eyes only. RogerBacon, I'm off in a minute but see this: http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open...Jun 30 23:27
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cozubnightJun 30 23:28
cozubI'm off tooJun 30 23:28
RogerBaconbye guy'sJun 30 23:28
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