Bonum Certa Men Certa

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 26th, 2008

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twitterIck.  Check out what this idiot from Nokia had to say about ogg theora. 26 00:43
MinceRwe can thank nokia and crapple for sabotaging html5.Aug 26 00:44
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josehello, i won't stay on but for a few minutes. i see schesto.. is awayAug 26 04:15
joseThere are some real supporters of Novell over here 26 04:15
joseThe comments are over 200 now, but there is a particular Anonymous that really seems to be pushing the Novell has been good to us line.Aug 26 04:16
joseIn the lastest reply, I realized (and this might be old news as I don't follow groklaw closely and have not followed bn very much in the past)...Aug 26 04:18
josethat Novell may have been prepared to cut SCOX at the knees if and only if they started to look really bad in their case against IBM.. or perhaps by design as the SCOX FUD was approaching do or die momentAug 26 04:19
josethey stopped SCOX in time to keep the IBM question up in the air since now a large part of the case won't go to trial.Aug 26 04:20
joseI know this is not news exactly, but I think PJ and some others still seem to view Novell's "help" as a positive, rather than as a way for Microsoft to keep the IP doubts alive.Aug 26 04:20
joseEven acting independently, Novell stands to gain, but not letting SCOX' horrible case be resolved.Aug 26 04:21
joseAnyway, sorry if this was old news. I sort of saw Novell as taking something for themselves. I guess the "eureka" for me tonigh..Aug 26 04:21
josewas that I think Novell may have planned all along to stop the IBM trial from going through..Aug 26 04:22
josei always saw the scox case as likely a warning shot from microsoft to ibm to act properly. Ibm talks positive of novell (except recently as to ooxml and such).Aug 26 04:23
joseok, well it seems everyone here is sleeping. That is where I am going now. don't know when i will be back. my email is but without the excess "oooo" .. laterAug 26 04:24
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josei'm backAug 26 04:28
jose 26 04:28
josecould be entirely bogus but the idea was tossed that ms would buy out sunAug 26 04:29
joselikely this would not be allowed, but if so, it means ms might own a significant amount of foss copyrights.Aug 26 04:29
jose..even if staroffice was spun off first.Aug 26 04:30
joselater...Aug 26 04:30
joseum, well this seems almost entirely impossible due to antitrust concerns. ok, off to bed this time.Aug 26 04:31
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schestowitztwitter: The Nokia guy is a former Microsoft employee. I wrote about it before.Aug 26 05:49
dsmith_man this is the bestover all pictue of vista I have ever seenAug 26 06:45
dsmith_ 26 06:45
dsmith_thanks for bringing it to lightAug 26 06:45
schestowitzIt's from twitter, but I linked to it yesterday.Aug 26 06:48
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schestowitzInteresting article: From the comments: "If it were Microsoft, most likely you wouldn't even know any of its servers have been compromised."Aug 26 07:13
dsmith_hehAug 26 07:40
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schestowitzProvocation from Dana again: (ZDNet hasn't a SINGLE decent FOSS blogger... Dana is a Windows user... many bloggers there are MSFTers to align with the funding source of ZDNet)Aug 26 07:55
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schestowitzW00t!! I found it: 26 09:43
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twitterWow, that is damaging.Aug 26 11:02
schestowitzWait, I have many more.Aug 26 11:02
twitterBetter save out a copy.  :)Aug 26 11:02
schestowitzI'll post these over the next few days.Aug 26 11:02
schestowitzBN makes local copies of everything it citesAug 26 11:03
twitterThe Internet Archive will remove things if the rights holder asks.  As soon as the M$ people see your link, they will get to work.Aug 26 11:03
twitterLocal copy, that's good.Aug 26 11:04
twitterIt's one thing for Bill Parish to say things.  It's another to have a local paper cite internal M$ sources and lawsuits at the time.Aug 26 11:05
schestowitzYes, I know. Some things were already removed from there.Aug 26 11:05
schestowitzYes, I know. I was going to weave that in with parish.Aug 26 11:05
schestowitzI have many more things like this. You can search BN archives (3900 posts so far)Aug 26 11:05
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schestowitzNotice that the man was fired and bribed to keep his mouth shut. Well, not bribed... just *ahem* rewarded 4 million... sure he got a nice yacht or something.Aug 26 11:07
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twitteryes, it's typical.  Next they clean the public record somehow.  Fraud on fraud.Aug 26 11:08
schestowitzHeh. Well, I'll go further with that. I have some more goodies.Aug 26 11:09
schestowitzSeen the article from the Economist about Microsoft losing $18 billion in 1998 and hiding it?Aug 26 11:10
twitterYes, it probably refers to this internal allegation.Aug 26 11:12
twitterSo, the public record is consistent and carefully vanished.  The vanishing public record is worse than the fraud.Aug 26 11:14
schestowitzDon't worry. We'll work things out. I can't do much to any of these companies, but making evidence available enables others to do so. Novell too has admitted cooking the books. They told Matt Asay about it and he blew the whistle in a audiocast I incidentally listened to.Aug 26 11:15
twitter"poor communication skills" - asking about fraud in an email where it can be discovered by "an astute litigator"Aug 26 11:16
schestowitzWhere is that?Aug 26 11:18
twitterParagraphs starting with "Pancerzewski reported his concerns to his supervisors by e-mail in March 1995" and ending with him being fired over lunch.Aug 26 11:21
schestowitzHeh. Well, it got him rich, didn't it?Aug 26 11:21
twitterI'm not sure about that.  The way M$ hammers people in court, the settlement may have just covered the man's losses.Aug 26 11:22
schestowitzMight be. Well, I have many more goodies coming, so stay tuned. I did some studying this morning.Aug 26 11:23
twitterNice work.Aug 26 11:23
schestowitzBTW: Boycott Microsoft vanished.Aug 26 11:24
schestowitz404s in me. Could you have a look? I mean, maybe there's some explanation or maybe it's temporary.Aug 26 11:24
schestowitz 26 11:25
twitter shows up, but I don't think I've ever seen it before so I can't say it's the same.  Last updated in 2002...Aug 26 11:26
trmancoschestowitz, having problems with permalinks?Aug 26 11:27
*trmanco brb, kernel update :)Aug 26 11:28
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schestowitzNo, just got there quicker.Aug 26 11:29
schestowitztwitter: that's not the one.Aug 26 11:30
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schestowitz 26 11:30
schestowitzFrom: 26 11:30
schestowitzIt has been fine for _10 YEARS_. Why is it gone now? It can't be me, but I sent a lot of people there (many links and referrals).Aug 26 11:31
twitterOh, that's what Google pointed to.  I was reading your 3282 article.... " Does this kind of petty harassment of critics constitute official Microsoft policy? That’s doubtful." Sounds like they spoke too soon.Aug 26 11:31
schestowitzAs you can see (post above), Microsoft try to mute that chat before.Aug 26 11:31
twitter is gone.Aug 26 11:33
schestowitzYes, all of them.Aug 26 11:34
schestowitzI found out this morning. It worked a couple of months ago. Google has nada. If it's truly gone, it's time to hit the Web Archive.Aug 26 11:34
schestowitzHere's the thing to do. We should get the author's E-mail somehow (from cache or archive) and ask what happened.Aug 26 11:35
schestowitzI was told by marbux that they tried to derail justice by hiding evidence of the OOXML corruption from the European Commission, which is still investigating. But that's another matter.Aug 26 11:37
twitterUltimately, that is the matter.Aug 26 11:37
schestowitzDon't let them obstruct justice. If you can, help me here. :-)Aug 26 11:38
twitterOK, I'll hunt around.  You want me to find the author of  ?Aug 26 11:39
schestowitzYes, please.Aug 26 11:39
schestowitzThere will be a story to tell. I don't think Microsoft paid him to take it offline, but you never knowAug 26 11:40
twitterInternet archive has "0 pages found for"Aug 26 11:41
schestowitz*gasp*Aug 26 11:41
schestowitzLet me see if I have local copiesAug 26 11:41
schestowitzI got it.Aug 26 11:42
schestowitzWill grep it for mailAug 26 11:42
twitterThat means, I think, it was cleaned by the person who owns  I've seen things from vanish from the internet archive and think there's a pattern here.Aug 26 11:42
schestowitznathan@netaction.orgAug 26 11:43
schestowitzwendy@compuserve.comAug 26 11:43
schestowitzWait, I'll see contextAug 26 11:43
schestowitzBillG@egns.comAug 26 11:43
schestowitzmailto:costa@mdi.caAug 26 11:43
schestowitzI probably don't have the right pages.Aug 26 11:43
twitter8 hits for wendy, 26 11:43
twitterhere's a book by wendy, if it's the same Wendy and not a plant 26 11:44
schestowitzIt was a guy who wrote the site, but maybe they have his contactAug 26 11:45
twitterA disturbing thought ... you have mirrors for BN?Aug 26 11:45
schestowitzI have about 9 pages from the site. I'll try to get his name.Aug 26 11:45
schestowitzOk, I have the index before me.Aug 26 11:45
schestowitzI still find it weird that the archive is empty (Alexa or whatever)Aug 26 11:46
schestowitzThe Boycottt Microsoft forum (off site) is still alive.. sort of. 26 11:46
twitterLike I said, I've seen that before.  Rights holders or people who pretend to be can wipe the Internet Archive's public record.  We can only hope they keep private records of stuff they wipe.Aug 26 11:47
trmanco* Comment buried!   HideAug 26 11:48
trmancoIs 'kretik' being offensive? Report itAug 26 11:48
trmancoSomebody call Schestowitzz, this must be another one of those evil Microsoft... uh, things... and stuff... LOOK OVER THERE A NEW VERSION OF WINE, BLOG BLOG BLOG!!!!"Aug 26 11:48
trmancogot that from a digg commentAug 26 11:48
schestowitztrmanco: it's one of my stalkers.Aug 26 11:48
trmancookAug 26 11:48
schestowitzI think he libels me in USENET also.Aug 26 11:48
schestowitzDigg ignores the problem. There are several like sh/e/itAug 26 11:48
twitterIt's up early for Redmond.Aug 26 11:49
schestowitztwitter: I'll probably just post portions of this conversation instead.Aug 26 11:49
twitterSo, do you have mirrors in a safe place?Aug 26 11:49
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schestowitzI have just the articles that I cited... about 14 of them.Aug 26 11:50
twitterThey have already gone to your boss and threatened you other ways.  It would be good to have a backup of your site in some country that's not Copyright insane.Aug 26 11:51
schestowitzBTW: Mary Jo Foley told me that Microsoft assigned 'buddies' to people who write about Microsoft, but those buddies are not exactly nice.Aug 26 11:51
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schestowitzShane has a copy. The server is in the US as well.Aug 26 11:51
twitterYes, I saw one of your articles about that.  Foley told you that personally?Aug 26 11:51
schestowitzIf you wish, I'll send you a copy of the DBAug 26 11:51
schestowitzYes, she did. She's Okay.Aug 26 11:52
twitterNa, I'm in the US too.  How large is that data base?Aug 26 11:52
schestowitzLike 8 MB, I think.Aug 26 11:53
twitterIt's amazing how tiny text really is.  Go ahead and send it to me.Aug 26 11:54
schestowitzHold on.Aug 26 11:55
schestowitzI'll need to clean up stuff like passwords and all.Aug 26 11:55
twitterTake your time.Aug 26 11:56
twitterI'm not sure that MJF telling you that you will be bullied makes her "OK"Aug 26 11:57
schestowitzShane thought the site was attacked before after he had leaked a password. He managed to restore it but he was nervous as hell. Dunno if Novell was involved, but it's very doubtful.Aug 26 11:57
schestowitztwitter: no, it wasn't like that.Aug 26 11:57
twittertalk about six month "improvement" plans is typical US corporate crapAug 26 11:57
schestowitzBut she makes a living as long as Microsoft is relevant, so deep inside she's protective of them.Aug 26 11:58
schestowitzWhat's that?Aug 26 11:58
schestowitzLike Microsoft's promises?Aug 26 11:58
schestowitzBill Gates: "We've got to put a lot of money into changing behavior."Aug 26 11:58
schestowitzThat was a long time ago. Since then: Yahoo! bullying, OOXML scandals, briberies, and whatnot.Aug 26 11:59
twitter"Personal Improvement Plans" are how companies paper employees files before firing them.  The five months it took to shitcan Pancerzewski is par for the course.Aug 26 11:59
twitterIt's sick but predictable that they would use the same terminology for writers they don't like.Aug 26 12:00
schestowitzI see... well, could there be related articles? I did a search on the headline and found some results, but didn't look closely inside them.Aug 26 12:02
schestowitzIf we can find a /live/ article/ about it, then it can be used as proof that holds at court.Aug 26 12:02
schestowitzRecall that OOXML thing I told you about. Revisionism is Orwellian.Aug 26 12:03
twitterSo, you shot me 4 email addresses, which one was the author of the article and what was the article about?Aug 26 12:07
schestowitzI'm not sure. Give me a moment to check.Aug 26 12:09
schestowitzI think it's Nathan though. Does my blog post about the threats against him have his full name listed?Aug 26 12:10
twitter42 hits for nathan@netaction.orgAug 26 12:10
twitter  Nathan Newman, Project Director  The Micro$oft Monitor. 26 12:12
twitterthere are others in mail listsAug 26 12:12
twitter"the danger is that Microsoft is using strategic monopolistic pricing in the education market, with the government's assistance, to turn our state university systems into private workforce training programs for Microsoft"  ha ha, he got that right.Aug 26 12:14
schestowitzI think that's the guy...?Aug 26 12:15
schestowitzNot sure. Wait..Aug 26 12:15
schestowitzHe wrote an article, but I'm not sure he's the editor.Aug 26 12:16
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twitter is aliveAug 26 12:17
twitter has a lot of materialAug 26 12:19
schestowitzI think I saw this before.Aug 26 12:19
schestowitzBut it's totally separate from BMS (boycott microsoft)Aug 26 12:20 only turns up two hits.Aug 26 12:22
twitterBill GilroyAug 26 12:24
schestowitzThanks, twitter. It's a very mysterious disappearance. The site was fine for many years.Aug 26 12:24
schestowitzIt wasn't maintained, but it was up.Aug 26 12:24
schestowitzI linked to it like 40 times about 2-3 months ago, IIRC. I haven't checked to see if it stayed online since.Aug 26 12:25
schestowitz 26 12:25
twitterI suspect domain hijackers clear the Internet Archive.Aug 26 12:25
schestowitzThat too. But watch the top level of BMS.Aug 26 12:26
schestowitzI mean, it's some Web mail something, IIRC.Aug 26 12:26
schestowitzI can't recall what it used to be, but it was something different when I had checked.Aug 26 12:26
PetoKrausi did small price comparisonAug 26 12:30
PetoKrausiPhone 3G would cost me at about 9000 SKK if i brought it from the UK, and at about 15000 SKK if i bought it in SlovakiaAug 26 12:31
PetoKrausNeo Freerunner, though, would cost me about 10200 SKK when shipped from britain, and 12000 (though with second battery and debugging board) when bought hereAug 26 12:32
PetoKrausi wonder, how come the difference is so huge in case of iPhone and so small in case of Freerunner?Aug 26 12:33
schestowitzAre you buying it?Aug 26 12:33
schestowitzNo iPhone.Aug 26 12:33
schestowitzApple just attacked an open source iPhone program.Aug 26 12:33
schestowitzIt's all over the news.Aug 26 12:33
schestowitzWill post a link in BN later as well...Aug 26 12:33
PetoKrausi am not, i am happy with my nokia 2310Aug 26 12:34
PetoKraus(no kidding)Aug 26 12:34
schestowitzSymbian, I assume. Well, it's going Eclipse Licence, doesn't it? Fauxen Source.Aug 26 12:35
PetoKrausdid you google the phone up? :)Aug 26 12:36
twitterThe last,, is Shiloh Costa did billing for a DSL company, 26 12:36
schestowitzPetoKraus: I haven't, I'm writing some text at the moment in another virtual workspaceAug 26 12:39
PetoKrausschestowitz: when you do, you'll understand why i am not gonna buy neither of them. Because 2310 is a phone ;)Aug 26 12:39
schestowitzI don't need a phone. :-DAug 26 12:40
PetoKraus:PAug 26 12:41
twitterAh ha! 26 12:44
schestowitzAh!!Aug 26 12:45
schestowitzThat's the way I remembered it (with images and all)Aug 26 12:45
schestowitzMitch Stone!!!!!!!!!!!Aug 26 12:45
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twittervcnet seems to have undergone some changes....Aug 26 12:46
twitterWho they were 26 12:47
twitterDon't know if the same people own the place today.Aug 26 12:47
schestowitzWatch this:Aug 26 12:48 26 12:48
schestowitzOops. 26 12:48
schestowitzSo the front page changed as well, not just BMS.Aug 26 12:48
twitternetcraft does not have recordsAug 26 12:49
schestowitz*/ 26 12:49
schestowitz*/ 26 12:49
schestowitzSo  IA still has a stack of copies, for now.Aug 26 12:49
twitteryep 26 12:51
schestowitzIt's a shame they took it all down, but it seems doubtful that a bad finger (BMS) would take a whole domain down. It's improbable.Aug 26 12:52
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twitterWhat's funny is that the incident preserved BMS.  From the preserved article, " Postscript: Thanks to my ISP, the Boycott Microsoft site was quickly moved into a web directory of it's own"Aug 26 12:57
schestowitzWhere's that? In the "Microsoft calls" article?Aug 26 12:58
twitterYes.  I seriously doubt that Mitch Stone would request his content be removed from the IA.Aug 26 12:59
twitterWhat I see is that your links were removed, but the cleaner missed the moved branch of bms.Aug 26 12:59
schestowitzWhat do you mean? Was it relocated?Aug 26 13:00
twitterHis site was copied from to 26 13:01
twitterwhoever scrubbed the internet archive missed this.  My suspicion is that they got a list of sites to clean by looking at BN.Aug 26 13:02
twitterYou should write to the Internet Archive and ask about this.  Either they did not archive the user.vcnet site or someone cleaned it.Aug 26 13:03
twitterand that someone was not the author.Aug 26 13:04
schestowitzHe does not own the domain.Aug 26 13:04
schestowitzWatch the letter where he is harassed by proxy.Aug 26 13:04
schestowitzKind of like the folks in Malaysia were harassed by supervisors because of Microsoft. It's typical. "When he's asleep, get the job done."Aug 26 13:05
twitterSo, if I steal a domain I can remove everyone else's work?  You would think that the rights holder is Mitch.Aug 26 13:05
schestowitzHaha.Aug 26 13:06
schestowitzSome Microsoft fan just posted this in USENET (he's also an investor).Aug 26 13:06
schestowitzSubject line: "Microsoft site blocked as known malware site, why?"Aug 26 13:06
schestowitz 26 13:07
TallkenI'm unsubscribing Linux Haters blog, it started well but now seems to be supported my MS... That guy used to criticise constructively and now he justs bashes... BTW, cute t-shirt: 26 13:18
twitterBMS seems to quit being maintained in 1998, or so, just when the author was starting to stand up for free software and M$ was working on Halloween 1Aug 26 13:21
twitterI noticed this interesting link about samba in the Dirty Tricks article 26 13:22
MinceRbms?Aug 26 13:22
*schestowitz looksAug 26 13:22
schestowitzMinceR, read the history of this chatAug 26 13:22
schestowitzBMS (boycott Microsoft) vanished.Aug 26 13:22
MinceRoh.Aug 26 13:22
MinceRthen i guessed correctly.Aug 26 13:23
MinceR(i've tried that and got a 403)Aug 26 13:23
MinceR(or perhaps not entirely correctly, i tried :) )Aug 26 13:23
schestowitztwitter: which part of Mark's (Cringely's) aritcle?Aug 26 13:23
MinceRapparently i've looked at BMS once, but it was gone alreadyAug 26 13:24
schestowitzBTW, he sent me back an E-mail last month. I told his some dark MS secrets.Aug 26 13:24
schestowitzI'm writing a post about Microsoft's vote-rigging at the moment. Nasty stuff, taken offline.Aug 26 13:24
twitterDirty tricks 26 13:25
twitterpoints to that samba article.  M$ has been trying to kill samba since 1998.Aug 26 13:25
twitterI suppose that's what the EU anti-trust trial was all about, ha ha.Aug 26 13:26
twittergotta go, I'll be back.Aug 26 13:26
schestowitzOh yeah...Aug 26 13:29
schestowitzI probably linked to this before.Aug 26 13:29
schestowitzPassing this URL through BN, I get: 26 13:30
schestowitzI can't recall the context in its entirety, but the titles remind me of it.Aug 26 13:30
TallkenArticle: EC misleading EU on copyright extension, says boffin < >Aug 26 13:37
Tallkenwell on second thought it isn't probably useful for BN but thought it'd be interesting for the people in hereAug 26 13:38
schestowitzMcCreevy? Let's have a look.Aug 26 13:38
schestowitzIt's the same with software patents. There are idiots in the EU who just serve megacorps.Aug 26 13:39
TallkenMcCreevy? what? what did you mean?Aug 26 13:39
schestowitzI mat have covered this before. I can't recall the professor's name. Maybe several...Aug 26 13:39
TallkenahAug 26 13:40
TallkenProfessor Bernt Uugenholf is the director of the University of Amsterdam's Institute for Information Law (IViR) and has written an open letter (pdf) to Commissioner Jose Manuel Barroso that is starkly critical of its controversial policies on copyright extension.Aug 26 13:40
schestowitzCharlie McCreevy. He's like Sarko. Some kind of neo-fascist, I hear.Aug 26 13:40
schestowitzThey want us to live in intellectual cages begging for water.. or content.Aug 26 13:40
Tallkenah ok understoodAug 26 13:40
TallkenlolAug 26 13:40
schestowitzThey ignore the economists. It's disgusting.Aug 26 13:41
TallkenThey only listen to the economist responsible for their bank accounts, probably :DAug 26 13:41
schestowitzEconomist says copyright extension is bad, but megacorp represented by the MAFIAA or ACT or whatever front they have says something different.Aug 26 13:41
schestowitzPoliticians that don't get exposed, e.g. by the Web, are more corruptible.Aug 26 13:42
TallkenI hated philosophy at school (actually it was more "History of Philosophy") but I honestly think that if people were fed decent and interesting philosophy the world would be a better placeAug 26 13:42
Tallkenthe society in general is at a loss of direction, purposeAug 26 13:43
TallkenJournalists don't do their workAug 26 13:43
TallkenPoliticians don't do their workAug 26 13:43
schestowitzSame with analsystsAug 26 13:43
Tallken<fill in the blank> don't do their workAug 26 13:43
schestowitzThere's a good analogy here. Microsoft memo says that "analysts sell out but they don't want to appear like they sell out."Aug 26 13:44
TallkenLOLAug 26 13:44
Tallkenwho ever wants to appear they sell out?Aug 26 13:44
schestowitzIt's the same with pollies. Show them money and they'll duck under the table, hoping for benefits without getting the boot.Aug 26 13:44
schestowitzThat Alaskan senator was recetrly bussted, wan't he?Aug 26 13:45
Tallkenhum?Aug 26 13:45
schestowitzHe got lots of gifts (bribes) and he's also the man behind "the Web is a Tube" thing.Aug 26 13:45
Tallkenya ya, reading now 26 13:46
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schestowitzI'll link to that Register article later. Thanks for that.Aug 26 13:51
Tallkenyou welcomeAug 26 13:51
Tallkenlol, first result is BN :DAug 26 13:52
schestowitzYeah, we get like 500 visitor per day via Google.Aug 26 13:55
schestowitz*visitorsAug 26 13:55
schestowitzThe second search result there is also me.Aug 26 13:55
Tallkenya, noticed it as well ;)Aug 26 13:57
TallkenI'm asking tech support of my ISP if they have a news serverAug 26 13:57
TallkenI  think they don't :(Aug 26 13:57
Tallkenthey don'tAug 26 14:00
TallkenbahAug 26 14:00
schestowitz 26 14:01
TallkenYa I was aware of itAug 26 14:25
Tallkenit's a pityAug 26 14:25
Tallkenat least we have Google groupsAug 26 14:25
Tallkenthough I hate web based newsgroupsAug 26 14:25
schestowitzYes, same here.Aug 26 14:25
Tallkenand IRC is also dyingAug 26 14:25
schestowitzI need my killfile, especially in this troll-ridden NG.Aug 26 14:25
schestowitzIRC was dead to many when ICQ came, but it's still alive.Aug 26 14:26
TallkenI find it awful noone as tried to revive free and open means of communicationAug 26 14:26
schestowitzICQ killed IRC for me like 11 years ago and here we are again.Aug 26 14:26
MinceRand ICQ is drowning in spamAug 26 14:26
schestowitzThere's an AGPL implementation of Twitter.Aug 26 14:26
Tallkenwe're tech savvy peopleAug 26 14:26
schestowitzWordPress+PHP+Apache are also FOSS.Aug 26 14:26
schestowitzThat's what BN runs on.Aug 26 14:27
schestowitzAnd Red HatAug 26 14:27
Tallkenya but my point here was not just in terms of opennessAug 26 14:27
Tallkenbut also in terms of the existence of a central hubAug 26 14:27
Tallkenin news mainlyAug 26 14:27
schestowitzThere's always the Blue E and the butterfly... :-)Aug 26 14:28
TallkenIRC, more or less, it's more of a hub than say MSNAug 26 14:28
Tallkenwhere you just chat with who you knowAug 26 14:28
schestowitzMicrosoft INNOVA~1 IMAug 26 14:28
schestowitzActually, I'll probably post something on The Great Microsoft Innovation Lie tomorrow.Aug 26 14:29
Tallkenand honestly I haven't found a suitable replacement for IRCAug 26 14:34
Tallkensocial networks annoy meAug 26 14:34
Tallkenhorrible forums interfaceAug 26 14:35
Tallkensomeone please tell hi5 and facebook to build a NNTP-social network gatewayAug 26 14:35
schestowitzFacebook can be OK, but the crowd it attracts and UI can be an issue. It's nag-oriented.Aug 26 14:36
Tallkenrofl, you haven't used Hi5 certainly :DAug 26 14:36
schestowitzIt also chews your personal data. There's no export option.Aug 26 14:37
schestowitzLockin is what it's all about. What they can take, not give. BTW, OSL just got $300,000 from Google. Thank Big G.Aug 26 14:37
TallkenOSL?Aug 26 14:41
MinceRyou can rest assured they'll give to the government all rightAug 26 14:41
MinceRNSA, CIA, police, you name itAug 26 14:41
MinceR(and probably whoever pays enough -- we know what USian privacy laws are like :> )Aug 26 14:42
TallkenlulzAug 26 14:42
Tallkenya unfortunatelyAug 26 14:42
Tallkenme going offlineAug 26 14:42
Tallkencya laterAug 26 14:42
*Tallken has quit ("quit")Aug 26 14:42
MinceRi've made the mistake of giving a social networking site some info about myself but it won't happen againAug 26 14:42
MinceR(back then it was something of a hobby affair managed by a little company -- then it was bought up by T-Online)Aug 26 14:43
schestowitzOSL run FreeNode, no?Aug 26 14:43
schestowitzSJVN wrote a good article about it. I have it bookmarkedAug 26 14:44
schestowitz 26 14:44
MinceRdoesn't PDPC run Freenode?Aug 26 14:44
schestowitzI'm not sure. The freenode site has OSL at the top, IIRCAug 26 14:46
schestowitzOkay, I'm off for a while (gym)Aug 26 14:57
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schestowitzByfield is at it again with the Novell/Microsoft apologism and he's getting the attention of 'enterprise open source' people: 26 17:38
PetoKrausdid you know, that on freerunners is room for mono?Aug 26 17:59
schestowitzDoes is come to it by default?Aug 26 18:00
PetoKrauswell, i don't knowAug 26 18:00
PetoKraussince you are downloading the software package yourselfAug 26 18:00
PetoKrausor, canAug 26 18:00
schestowitzWell, if it becomes OpenMono [sic], let me know. :-)Aug 26 18:00
schestowitzThey (Mono fans) seem to have tried this stunt with LiMo: 26 18:01
PetoKrausthere's debian version fitted for GTA02Aug 26 18:01
PetoKrausso you don't HAVE to use mono to run the phone, that's for sureAug 26 18:01
schestowitzAnd Miguel had a hard-on for Mono on an Android: 26 18:01
PetoKrausi guess i'll buy some openmoko-based product later onAug 26 18:02
PetoKrausthough 12 hours battery life is patheticAug 26 18:02
schestowitzReduces exposure to radiation, I guess.Aug 26 18:03
schestowitzGet one with a crank. :-pAug 26 18:03
PetoKraus:)Aug 26 18:05
schestowitzThe UK govt. seems to be making or creating quite a business with its data-mining activity:  ( [H]omer  might mind )Aug 26 18:05
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anivarschestowitz:  see 26 20:05
*schestowitz looksAug 26 20:06
schestowitzExcellent!Aug 26 20:06
schestowitzKoha uses Ubungu GNU/Linux as far as I know.Aug 26 20:06
schestowitzThey made lots of announcement in LinuxPR and they have many clients in EU and The States. Greece-based, IIRC.Aug 26 20:07
anivarschestowitz:  :-) i am happy to see the great coverage for indian swpat campaignAug 26 20:17
schestowitzThanks. I'm working on what you've just sent me.Aug 26 20:18
anivarschestowitz:  GoodAug 26 20:20
anivarSee this one tooAug 26 20:20
anivar 26 20:21
anivarsorry 26 20:21
anivarwe are planning an international campaign with the help of FFIIAug 26 20:21
anivarschestowitz: ^^Aug 26 20:22
schestowitzExcellent. India is important because a rejection there (to s/w patents) would end momentum gained by the intellectual monopolists.Aug 26 20:26
anivarwe are planning something. but cant tell now in a publically logged list :-)Aug 26 20:30
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MinceRdoes m$ have valid patents on .NET?Aug 26 22:19
schestowitzI am not sure. But there are patent that probably relate to it, but they won't mention the term .NET.Aug 26 22:21
trmancoI wrote a post today about .NET Mono em C#Aug 26 22:24
MinceRdoes debian include mono in the free repositories?Aug 26 22:25
trmancoBig list of non-recommended software that relies on MonoAug 26 22:25
schestowitzMinceR: I think so.Aug 26 22:27
schestowitz 26 22:28
MinceRsomeone tells me they wouldn't have included it if it would allow m$ to sue based on patentsAug 26 22:28
schestowitzThey don't need to sue. It's enough for Ballmer & Hilf to pull out the grease gun and holler "Teh Lunix!" FUD is bad enough, if not worse.Aug 26 22:32
benJImanMinceR: It is in free, but most free software will infringe lots of patents. Mono is not special.Aug 26 22:32
MinceRicAug 26 22:33
benJImanMicrosoft are in fact less likely to actually use software patents aggressively as they have much more to lose from a patent war.Aug 26 22:33
MinceRthat's trueAug 26 22:33
schestowitzbenJIman: Microsoft has already used them and uses themAug 26 22:34
MinceRonly for FUD or for suing as well?Aug 26 22:35
schestowitz.For FUD and toll roads.Aug 26 22:35
MinceRtoll roads?Aug 26 22:35
schestowitzYes, let me get the post because it's more detailed.Aug 26 22:37
schestowitz 26 22:37
MinceRicAug 26 22:45
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TallkenArticle: Between Mono and Java ["In general, I think Java has now much more chances to become the true high-level multiplatform language and environment, over C# and Mono. This because the main implementation is open, rather than having one (or more) open implementations trying to track down the first and main implementation." though he also says "But I’d be seriously interested on a C# compiler that didn’t need Mono runtime, kAug 26 23:19
Tallkeninda like Vala." ] < >Aug 26 23:19
TallkenhumAug 26 23:19
trmancoTallken, Are you Portuguese?Aug 26 23:19
TallkenwthAug 26 23:19
Tallken 26 23:19
Tallkensim trmanco :)Aug 26 23:19
trmancoEu também :PAug 26 23:19
TallkenI had already seen your IP ;)Aug 26 23:20
Tallkenanyway, I just came here to drop the URLAug 26 23:20
Tallkenhope it'll be usefulAug 26 23:20
Tallkengotta go [[]]Aug 26 23:20
trmancoWell, I only saw your hostname today tho :|Aug 26 23:21
Tallken;)Aug 26 23:21
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