| schestowitz | It also preferred not to attack people's desire to write good code and share it. | Oct 04 00:03 |
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| pombat42 | Of course. It's the calm before the storm. IBM=sophisticated vs Microsoft = Bull in a china shop. | Oct 04 00:04 |
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| schestowitz | IBM = Lotus blobs on top of patent-'protected' "Linux". I just keep a distance from IBM. Even Sun is easier to trust... | Oct 04 00:05 |
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| pombat42 | Schestowitz: I agree with you concerning Sun. They are a very good company with little pretense. What you see is what you get, mostly. | Oct 04 00:06 |
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| MinceR | gn | Oct 04 00:55 |
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| schestowitz | I've leaked the remainder of OOXML. Over 4 gigs of traffic in boycottnovell.com today. | Oct 04 01:27 |
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| schestowitz | brb | Oct 04 02:10 |
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| **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Oct 4 02:10:55 2008 |
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Oct 4 02:15:04 2008 |
| *Now talking on #boycottnovell | Oct 04 02:15 |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell is: "Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications" | Oct 04 02:15 |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Mon Sep 22 17:17:52 2008 | Oct 04 02:15 |
| -ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel | Oct 04 02:15 |
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| schestowitz | http://stable-entropy.blogspot.com/20... "So where does this leave us? GNOME has been encumbered with Microsoft patents. Microsoft clearly has no regard for anyone's intellectual property, albeit their own, and will stop at nothing to gain control or draw the life from new innovations in order to keep afloat their failing ideal. What can we do about it?" | Oct 04 07:43 |
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| schestowitz | Whoa. BoycottNovell is passing about 10 MB/minute this morning. | Oct 04 07:55 |
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| schestowitz | BN now down because of the load. :-( | Oct 04 08:00 |
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| schestowitz | Sudden outbreak of democracy baffles US pundits ... "The outrage isn't the spooky part. The really odd thing is that if you had to rely on the mainstream US newspapers and TV channels - and nothing else - you'd wouldn't know something remarkable was happening. Which is that the Treasury Secretary's Bailout Plan had united parts of America who spend most of their energy hitting each other over the head, in common opposition to the p | Oct 04 08:39 |
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| schestowitz | roposal." | Oct 04 08:39 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2... | Oct 04 08:40 |
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| schestowitz | Then again: Apple shares plunge after Jobs 'heart attack' < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/1... > | Oct 04 08:41 |
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| kentma | schestowitz: why's BN become so popular, do you think? | Oct 04 09:44 |
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| schestowitz | "PJ: Just an off the wall suggestion: look into how Psystar folks are paying their lawyers to harass Apple? No? Too simple? I only raise it because Jobs has said that Apple is being shorted; and if that's true, any negative news would be useful to anyone wanting the stock to go down, I would assume, and any litigation is negative news." | Oct 04 09:44 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=... : SEC Examining False Report on Apple Chief Jobs | Oct 04 09:45 |
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| schestowitz | kentma: it's because of the leaked OOXML specs. | Oct 04 09:45 |
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| kentma | ahh, what was in the specs? | Oct 04 09:45 |
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| schestowitz | Bugs, of course. | Oct 04 09:46 |
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| trmanco | lol | Oct 04 09:48 |
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| schestowitz | Other possible proxy fights, against Google.. | Oct 04 09:48 |
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| schestowitz | http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/03/go... | Oct 04 09:49 |
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| schestowitz | "Never in the future? What is the guy asking for, permanent government oversight of two private companies just in case someday the deal might not work out even though it isn't an antitrust problem currently? This is an extraordinary request. Is that how capitalism works normally? Anyone know who donates money to this individual? Man, Microsoft sure is a sore loser." | Oct 04 09:49 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.informationweek.com/news/internet/g... | Oct 04 09:49 |
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| schestowitz | Google and Apple may have already been sued in the past via Microsoft proxies (I have example). Google for a fact. They also hired shills to poo-poo that deal (via LawMedia), so it seems like they might be doing to Apple and Google what they potentially do to GNU/Linux by injecting money for SCO to sue.. | Oct 04 09:51 |
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| trmanco | http://feeds.gawker.com/~r/gizmodo/ful... | Oct 04 10:01 |
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| schestowitz | Thanks, seen it earlier. | Oct 04 10:02 |
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| trmanco | weird tho | Oct 04 10:02 |
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| trmanco | or maybe not | Oct 04 10:03 |
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| schestowitz | Changing operating systems requires a change in mindset : http://www.itwire.com/conte... | Oct 04 10:03 |
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| schestowitz | MSI was never serious about Linux. Same with H-P | Oct 04 10:03 |
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| trmanco | they forgot to say that Linux netbook have bigger sales than windows netbboks | Oct 04 10:03 |
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| schestowitz | Stats from Acer or Dell would be more interesting. | Oct 04 10:03 |
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| trmanco | asus too | Oct 04 10:03 |
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| trmanco | I king of like the EEE | Oct 04 10:03 |
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| trmanco | kind* | Oct 04 10:03 |
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| zoobab | does not matter, what matters is that the price of the OS is being displayed | Oct 04 10:04 |
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| Tallken | schestowitz: have you got some more details about Ballmer's visit to Portugal? | Oct 04 10:07 |
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| Tallken | (hi) | Oct 04 10:07 |
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| schestowitz | Tallken: I wrote everything I know yesterday... well, and linked to some older information. | Oct 04 10:10 |
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| trmanco | http://www.microsoft-watch.com/conte... | Oct 04 10:12 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/64689.html "There, he said it. Microsoft is interested in making money. That's what CEO Steve Ballmer said in reference to Microsoft's motivation in the mobile space." | Oct 04 10:13 |
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| schestowitz | Despite the massive losses there, shipments of Windows Mobile are still bad.... Windows Mobile misses annual shipment target < http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/m... > | Oct 04 10:14 |
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| Tallken | ya, was reading now | Oct 04 10:16 |
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| Tallken | I'd found an article | Oct 04 10:16 |
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| Tallken | thought you'd like it, but I see you've got it covered :) | Oct 04 10:16 |
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| schestowitz | Which one? | Oct 04 10:17 |
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| schestowitz | In particular, I want to know more about the visit to Portugal. Ballmer and your president seem too close... a bit like Sarko who is having vacations at the homes of Micfrosofters. | Oct 04 10:18 |
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| zoobab | Sarko is responsible for OOXML position in FRance | Oct 04 10:19 |
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| schestowitz | Politicians love money and companies/execs just love corruptible politicians, whom they are they likely to fund in the form of campaign contributions. I still worry about Brown's and Blair's dirty dances in the Bilderberg Group, which may be partly responsible for them being elected (it's all about public perception, which boils down to adverti$$ing) | Oct 04 10:20 |
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| Tallken | schestowitz: this article, it hasn't much more info than the others I guess (in PT) http://ultimahora.publico.clix.pt/... | Oct 04 10:21 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.fonz.net/blog/archives/2007/06/0... | Oct 04 10:21 |
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| schestowitz | Tallken: later on I'll read a Microsoft feed (I have about 1000 items unread because I was away). I'll try to find reports about other businesses Ballmer spoke to in Portuga. Someone who mailed thinks that FullSIX in Portugal is doing AstroTurfing for Microsoft there. There's circumstantial evidence. | Oct 04 10:23 |
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| Tallken | ok, give me a nudge when you post it | Oct 04 10:24 |
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| trmanco | http://ehsanakhgari.org/blog/2008-10-03/e... | Oct 04 10:24 |
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| Tallken | I've been having troubles keeping up with the RSS as well | Oct 04 10:24 |
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| zoobab | is there a way to only activate javascript for certain websites on firefox? | Oct 04 10:28 |
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| zoobab | noscript does the job | Oct 04 10:29 |
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| schestowitz | Is this a Q &A? | Oct 04 10:31 |
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| zoobab | I am just trying to save my battery | Oct 04 10:32 |
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| zoobab | I am looking to buy a netbook | Oct 04 10:32 |
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| schestowitz | I just read pages, not 'execute them. :-) | Oct 04 10:33 |
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| schestowitz | NoScript lets you set up rules for JS | Oct 04 10:33 |
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| zoobab | but firefox just keeps eating CPU and memory while doing nothing | Oct 04 10:33 |
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| schestowitz | Firefox is very fat. | Oct 04 10:33 |
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| schestowitz | FF3.0 should be better than 2.0.x though. I still use the latter. | Oct 04 10:33 |
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| kentma | ff3 is much better than 2.x, but it's still bigger than I'd like | Oct 04 10:34 |
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| Tallken | zoobab: Opera or Chrome | Oct 04 10:40 |
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| trmanco | schestowitz, do you have any linux netbook sales stats vs windows? | Oct 04 10:42 |
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| zoobab | Chrome is not yet available for linux, right? | Oct 04 10:42 |
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| trmanco | zoobab, you need wine | Oct 04 10:43 |
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| schestowitz | Only with Wine, which leaves it buggier than it already is | Oct 04 10:43 |
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| zoobab | :-) | Oct 04 10:43 |
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| trmanco | there are deb packages of chrome | Oct 04 10:43 |
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| schestowitz | trmanco: no, not quite. Not for more than a single vendor anyway. | Oct 04 10:43 |
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| trmanco | which vendor? | Oct 04 10:44 |
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| trmanco | asus? | Oct 04 10:44 |
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| schestowitz | Asus said some months ago that Windows will outsell Linux 2:1. It got close to Microsoft ("we are currently closely tied up with Microsoft") | Oct 04 10:44 |
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| schestowitz | It's just like OLPC. Microsoft plays whack-a-mole also by pressuring vendors, who then cease to /improve/ or maintain (properly) their Linux offerings. | Oct 04 10:45 |
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| trmanco | I can't beleive that people still but the windows xp junk | Oct 04 10:46 |
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| trmanco | that OS is from 2001 | Oct 04 10:46 |
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| trmanco | .... | Oct 04 10:46 |
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| schestowitz | They got 'addicted' to Windows. | Oct 04 10:47 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.amateureconomists.com/blogs/2008/10/0... | Oct 04 10:47 |
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| schestowitz | Bill Gates: “They’ll get sort of addicted, and then we’ll somehow figure out how to collect sometime in the next decade.” | Oct 04 10:47 |
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| schestowitz | beos founder wrote (I think in "that who controls bootloader") that Gates realised he could establish lock-in through DEVELO~1 DEVELO~1 DEVELO~1. That was a long time ago in Paris, IIC. | Oct 04 10:48 |
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| trmanco | http://tek.sapo.pt/opiniao/op... | Oct 04 10:49 |
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| zoobab | you have to change architechture | Oct 04 10:49 |
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| schestowitz | They adapt, just like a wookie. | Oct 04 10:50 |
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| schestowitz | Watch how they extended XP's lifeline just because of sub-notebooks. 2+ years... | Oct 04 10:51 |
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| zoobab | I hope ARM will come to the rescue | Oct 04 10:51 |
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| zoobab | the thing is that Firefox just consumes too much RAM, CPU | Oct 04 10:51 |
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| schestowitz | They have a light version coming. Milestone 8 reaches some days ago (Fennec.. maybe milestone 9) | Oct 04 10:54 |
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| zoobab | good | Oct 04 10:55 |
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| schestowitz | *reached | Oct 04 10:57 |
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| zoobab | at some point I will go back to links framebuffer | Oct 04 11:07 |
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| schestowitz | It gets harder. | Oct 04 11:08 |
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| schestowitz | Try steering around novell.com without JS, Flash blobs, pop-ups etc. and see how far you can navigate. | Oct 04 11:09 |
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| zoobab | the web is getting bloated | Oct 04 11:27 |
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| zoobab | it is a matter of facts with all of those javascript everywhere | Oct 04 11:28 |
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| schestowitz | Some sites have JS coming from about 7 domains. I;ve seen /more/. Visit one site, be spied by 7. | Oct 04 11:31 |
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| zoobab | zoobab@warsaw /home/zoobab [43]$ xvidcap | Oct 04 11:34 |
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| zoobab | Segmentation fault | Oct 04 11:34 |
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| MinceR | how are you gentlemen !! | Oct 04 11:34 |
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| zoobab | trying to capture broken JS bug, found another one :-) | Oct 04 11:34 |
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| schestowitz | What distro? | Oct 04 11:38 |
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| zoobab | ubuntu | Oct 04 11:38 |
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| schestowitz | I'm going to do a quick post about Microsoft vs. Google|Apple. | Oct 04 11:38 |
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| schestowitz | Done before, being done again. | Oct 04 11:39 |
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| schestowitz | (by proxy, as always, with evidence) | Oct 04 11:39 |
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| zoobab | kdecore (KLibLoader): WARNING: KLibrary: /usr/lib/libcrypto.so.0.9.8: undefined symbol: OpenSSL_add_all_algorithms_conf | Oct 04 11:42 |
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| zoobab | kio (KIOConnection): ERROR: Could not write data | Oct 04 11:42 |
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| zoobab | Konqueror now | Oct 04 11:42 |
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| zoobab | Segmentation fault | Oct 04 11:42 |
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| schestowitz | Which site? | Oct 04 11:43 |
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| schestowitz | Apps are very stable in KDE on Mandriv 2008.1 (KDE 3.5.x). | Oct 04 11:43 |
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| zoobab | I will start it with strace | Oct 04 11:55 |
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| AVRS2 | Beeline advertises iPhone on TV :S | Oct 04 13:12 |
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| schestowitz | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beeline ? | Oct 04 13:13 |
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| AVRS2 | Beeline (telecommunications) | Oct 04 13:14 |
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| schestowitz | Hmmm... I've just realised that FF2 has keystrike 'tracking' (spyware) in its search bar. A power they could abuse... | Oct 04 13:14 |
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| AVRS2 | (Vympelcom) | Oct 04 13:14 |
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| schestowitz | iPhone is advertised everywhere here in the UK. | Oct 04 13:14 |
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| schestowitz | http://thehermesproject.blogspot.com/2008/08... | Oct 04 13:15 |
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| AVRS2 | iPhone hasn't been here officially till now. | Oct 04 13:17 |
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| schestowitz | Good for you. Fewer snobs in the streets.;-) | Oct 04 13:23 |
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| AVRS2 | This year, Beeline acquired the company which previosly acquired my ISP. | Oct 04 13:25 |
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| MinceR | snobs are still snobs, even if they can't get their much desired iBrick. | Oct 04 13:25 |
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| AVRS2 | schestowitz: someone has used Firefox search bar to search for porn, then forgot about that and filed a bug about porn appearing in suggestions for a safe word. | Oct 04 13:29 |
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| MinceR | lol | Oct 04 13:32 |
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| schestowitz | AVRS2: did he offer a dump of text... you know, you 'debugging'? | Oct 04 13:37 |
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| schestowitz | */s/you/for/ | Oct 04 13:37 |
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| AVRS2 | IIRC, there was a screenshot. Of course, the search engine itself didn't show that. Oh, IIRC, it was "callgirls" when entering "girls" (in Russian or Ukrainian, so not an exact example) | Oct 04 13:39 |
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| schestowitz | I guess Google could classify a lot of people that way, revealing intimate details. It's already done for regional populations in Google Trends. | Oct 04 13:42 |
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| AVRS2 | There is safebrowsing with cookies for google.com, too. | Oct 04 13:43 |
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| schestowitz | Does one opt /in/ or /out/. Same question goes for Phorm in the UK (it's government-approved spyware... nasty stuff!) | Oct 04 13:44 |
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| schestowitz | In the UK, the 'default' option is getting rectal/Orwellian examination by Phorm. The naive ones will just let this happen and for BT/Govt to harvest lots of personal data | Oct 04 13:45 |
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| schestowitz | twitter will like this one: Microsoft institutes hiring freeze < http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/100... Microsoft denies it, but its excuses are lame. It's about 'not being formal/final) | Oct 04 13:47 |
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| schestowitz | We need more people to obtain a copy of OOXML and report bugs, which would pressure ISO and Microsoft. | Oct 04 13:57 |
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| schestowitz | It'll be like 7 GB of traffic in BN today... | Oct 04 13:58 |
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| ZiggyFish | nice | Oct 04 13:59 |
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| ZiggyFish | schestowitz: has there been any found yet | Oct 04 13:59 |
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| schestowitz | Well, the usual. The difference is that not only committee member will have a copy now. Groklaw will rip it apart, I'm sure. | Oct 04 14:02 |
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| AVRS2 | GNU IceCat also has search suggestions enabled. | Oct 04 14:07 |
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| schestowitz | Well, it's FF | Oct 04 14:08 |
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| AVRS2 | Well, it must be a bug. | Oct 04 14:08 |
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| schestowitz | Of intent? Or a technical one? | Oct 04 14:09 |
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| MinceR | what's wrong with that? the search string would be sent anyway | Oct 04 14:09 |
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| schestowitz | True, but some people don't like keyloggers. It's also means for grabbing people's letters, passwords, etc | Oct 04 14:09 |
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| AVRS2 | schestowitz: that is, not removed. | Oct 04 14:09 |
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| schestowitz | Malicious feature? I'm not sure it qualifies. | Oct 04 14:10 |
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| AVRS2 | BTW, has Mono been at http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/priority.html before the update? | Oct 04 14:10 |
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| schestowitz | Mono? | Oct 04 14:11 |
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| schestowitz | I don't see it there. | Oct 04 14:11 |
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| AVRS2 | There is no Mono there. | Oct 04 14:11 |
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| schestowitz | Not even dotgnu | Oct 04 14:11 |
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| AVRS2 | Maybe I am confusing it with Gnash, which still is there. | Oct 04 14:11 |
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| schestowitz | If it was there, someone would have brought it up. Let's try Google cache. | Oct 04 14:11 |
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| ZiggyFish | http://msnshadow.blogspot.com/ (What is MSN Shadow) | Oct 04 14:11 |
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| ZiggyFish | MSN Shadow is a forensics tool developed to demonstrate several security proofs of concept in the MSN protocol. | Oct 04 14:11 |
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| ZiggyFish | lol lol | Oct 04 14:11 |
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| schestowitz | No, it's too recent... http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:http%3A/... | Oct 04 14:11 |
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| MinceR | if someone types a password into the search box, they deserve what they get :> | Oct 04 14:12 |
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| schestowitz | http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/art... | Oct 04 14:13 |
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| schestowitz | 2007: "# DotGNU: | Oct 04 14:13 |
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| schestowitz | GNU/Linux already has a partial implementation of Microsofts .NET (AKA C#) language in the Mono Project. However, many people in free software are concerned that Mono could face patent attacks from Microsoft. Just as importantly, some view Mono with suspicion, especially since it is sponsored by Novell, Microsoft's chief partner in the community. DotGNU is an effort to provide a technical and political alternative." | Oct 04 14:13 |
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| MinceR | would dotGNU be safe from patent-based attacks? | Oct 04 14:13 |
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| schestowitz | I can't find dotgnu in http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/priority.html | Oct 04 14:13 |
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| schestowitz | So they tossed it out, I suppose. | Oct 04 14:13 |
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| MinceR | (considering that sw patents apply to ideas, not implementations?) | Oct 04 14:13 |
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| AVRS2 | http://web.archive.org/web/20080213213948/htt... - DotGNU | Oct 04 14:14 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: dotgnu doesn't appear to actually /implement/ apps, AFAIK. The thing about Mono is to do with Novell and MonoDevelop. They want not to 'backward engineer' (sort of) like Mainsoft.; they want a Linux that's built on Mono. That's a stretch though. | Oct 04 14:15 |
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| AVRS2 | 3D drivers removed, Google Earth replacement added | Oct 04 14:15 |
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| AVRS2 | *Google Earth was there before | Oct 04 14:16 |
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| AVRS2 | Now Skype… | Oct 04 14:16 |
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| schestowitz | Ekiga? | Oct 04 14:17 |
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| schestowitz | Marble? | Oct 04 14:17 |
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| AVRS2 | Yes, they are linked there. | Oct 04 14:17 |
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| AVRS2 | no Marble in the list though | Oct 04 14:17 |
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| schestowitz | Who would acquire satellite images and who would run a high-b/w server? | Oct 04 14:17 |
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| schestowitz | AVRS2: you're neighbour [H]omer_ is here. | Oct 04 14:18 |
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| AVRS2 | There is "earth3d" in Debian, but I am not sure it really works… | Oct 04 14:18 |
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| schestowitz | zoobab is there too (his computer name) | Oct 04 14:18 |
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| AVRS2 | Not Idaho? ;-) | Oct 04 14:19 |
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| schestowitz | I'm not sure. I go by memory. | Oct 04 14:20 |
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| schestowitz | About .NET getting slapped off the FSF's list, I'll do a post about it later. | Oct 04 14:20 |
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| AVRS2 | Oh… https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w... | Oct 04 14:21 |
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| *ZiggyFish has quit ("Leaving.") | Oct 04 14:21 |
| AVRS2 | schestowitz: it could just have fallen down because it works well (don't know) already. | Oct 04 14:23 |
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| AVRS2 | Like 3D drivers… which don't | Oct 04 14:24 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.ph... "give me a linux native app... wine is fine as a quick fix... but that should not be the GOAL.... the GOAL should be to run it NATIVE!!!!! " | Oct 04 14:31 |
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| schestowitz | Pretty much like the illusion that writing Linux apps in MS .NET is the route to 'winning'. | Oct 04 14:31 |
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| *libervisco has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Oct 04 15:45 |
| AVRS2 | http://tinyurl.com/3zwbaf (Wikipedia link) — Rospatent's magic patents. | Oct 04 16:03 |
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| AVRS2 | Literally. | Oct 04 16:04 |
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| schestowitz | Some people sort of patent poetry. | Oct 04 16:09 |
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| schestowitz | Which means that copyright is not enough. Expressions such as the use of analogies can consist infingements. | Oct 04 16:10 |
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| schestowitz | Aliens must be L[T]AO watching the stupidity of human kind. | Oct 04 16:11 |
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| *Tallken (n=f2f93bf5@62.169.119.36.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 04 16:28 |
| *brunomiguel (n=brunomig) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 04 16:35 |
| *brunomiguel says hello :) | Oct 04 16:35 |
| schestowitz | Howdy. | Oct 04 16:36 |
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| Tallken | howdy | Oct 04 16:39 |
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| Tallken | schestowitz: watched Ballmer on TV a while ago | Oct 04 16:39 |
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| Tallken | being interviewed | Oct 04 16:39 |
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| Tallken | one of the interviewers had an iPhone lol | Oct 04 16:39 |
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| Tallken | pitty one couldn't call there | Oct 04 16:39 |
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| Tallken | :) | Oct 04 16:39 |
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| Tallken | wouldn't be too much of a nuisance though | Oct 04 16:39 |
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| Tallken | just ask him about linux | Oct 04 16:39 |
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| Tallken | would like to see what his answer would be | Oct 04 16:39 |
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| schestowitz | That Linux is at 60% | Oct 04 16:40 |
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| schestowitz | For apps server. | Oct 04 16:40 |
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| Tallken | and some philosophical questions :P | Oct 04 16:40 |
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| brunomiguel | gnu/linux is used in 60% of the webservers and windows in 40%?? | Oct 04 16:40 |
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| brunomiguel | those numbers feel like... well, not true | Oct 04 16:41 |
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| brunomiguel | and the BSDs? don't they count? | Oct 04 16:41 |
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| brunomiguel | even mac os x | Oct 04 16:41 |
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| schestowitz | Ballmer thinks in terms of "Good" and "Evil" | Oct 04 16:42 |
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| schestowitz | There are just Google and Microsoft on the Web (he worries not about Yahoo) | Oct 04 16:42 |
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| schestowitz | And there's a sick obsession with #1 threat, GNU/Linux. | Oct 04 16:43 |
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| brunomiguel | gnu/linux is not the only threat to them. any good software is a threat to them | Oct 04 16:45 |
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| schestowitz | But they can squash companies. GNU/Linux is not a company. | Oct 04 16:46 |
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| brunomiguel | when I say that any good software is a threat, I'm talking only from an user perspective | Oct 04 16:52 |
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| brunomiguel | i'm not a programmer or any thing like that | Oct 04 16:52 |
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| brunomiguel | just someone who got sick of constant infections, crashes, ugly bsods, ultra slow performance, etc... | Oct 04 16:52 |
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| brunomiguel | adn that led me to the free software movement | Oct 04 16:53 |
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| brunomiguel | only good things happened after showing the finger to windows :D | Oct 04 16:53 |
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| zoobab | at least you can correct bugs yourself, or pay someone to do it :-) | Oct 04 16:53 |
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| brunomiguel | yes, but it's not just that. i have freedom to do what the hell i want with the software | Oct 04 16:54 |
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| brunomiguel | i'm part of the process and i'm respected | Oct 04 16:54 |
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| *PetoKraus (n=Peter@cpc4-broo2-0-0-cust1012.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 04 16:54 |
| brunomiguel | i have *freedom* | Oct 04 16:55 |
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| schestowitz | Most people use it cause it's different and /or cheap. | Oct 04 16:55 |
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| brunomiguel | freedom is much more important! i'm a strong believer in democracy (the theory, at least) | Oct 04 16:56 |
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| MinceR | anarchy would be better | Oct 04 16:56 |
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| brunomiguel | so, i believe that anyone should be free, although it has to respect the rules | Oct 04 16:56 |
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| MinceR | (but we need more clueful people for that to work) | Oct 04 16:56 |
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| schestowitz | Do any democratic countries exist really? | Oct 04 16:56 |
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| brunomiguel | and the free software movement represents that | Oct 04 16:56 |
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| brunomiguel | schestowitz: well... you know... | Oct 04 16:56 |
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| brunomiguel | MinceR: i don't like anarchy because i don't trust people - at least that much | Oct 04 16:57 |
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| brunomiguel | schestowitz: the USA is a democracy | Oct 04 16:57 |
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| *brunomiguel laughs real loud! | Oct 04 16:57 |
| zoobab | http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//... | Oct 04 16:58 |
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| zoobab | Commission is a big client of Microsoft: | Oct 04 16:58 |
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| zoobab | "Regarding the cost of the products used on the desktops (the so called | Oct 04 16:58 |
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| zoobab | office automation software), which currently are mainly Microsoft ones" | Oct 04 16:58 |
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| brunomiguel | in an anarchy, people wioll do what the hell they want. and we all know where that would leed us. | Oct 04 16:58 |
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| brunomiguel | *lead | Oct 04 16:58 |
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| schestowitz | Many countries present themselves as "democracy", but judging by the definition of the word, it doesn't work "as advertised". The USA is not a democracy; it's a corpocracy. | Oct 04 16:58 |
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| schestowitz | It's the corporations, i.e. people like Ballmer, who 'run' the pollies, but you don't get to vote on (elect) people like Ballmer, Murdoch, etc. | Oct 04 17:00 |
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| Already marked back. | Oct 04 17:01 |
| *schestowitz back in 2 hours | Oct 04 17:01 |
| MinceR | brunomiguel: if people can't be trusted, no system will work, not even democracy | Oct 04 17:03 |
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| MinceR | brunomiguel: if people can be trusted, there's no need to waste money on bureaucracy | Oct 04 17:04 |
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| brunomiguel | that's why i like democracy: rules | Oct 04 17:04 |
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| brunomiguel | rules that are fair | Oct 04 17:04 |
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| MinceR | why are rules a good thing? | Oct 04 17:04 |
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| MinceR | when have you seen fair rules on earth? | Oct 04 17:04 |
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| brunomiguel | to protect | Oct 04 17:04 |
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| brunomiguel | the citizens | Oct 04 17:04 |
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| MinceR | rules rarely protect the citizens | Oct 04 17:04 |
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| brunomiguel | but they should! | Oct 04 17:05 |
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| MinceR | they tend to protect the powerful few who have managed to bend the system to their advantage | Oct 04 17:05 |
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| brunomiguel | people are stupid, they need rules. i need rules | Oct 04 17:05 |
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| MinceR | if people are stupid, no amount of rules will help them | Oct 04 17:05 |
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| brunomiguel | know, things are strange, rotten | Oct 04 17:05 |
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| MinceR | if people aren't stupid, they won't need rules | Oct 04 17:05 |
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| brunomiguel | they help | Oct 04 17:05 |
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| MinceR | they help the ones who are oppressing me | Oct 04 17:06 |
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| brunomiguel | so, they are not well applied | Oct 04 17:07 |
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| brunomiguel | it's like a proprietary software license | Oct 04 17:07 |
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| brunomiguel | when rules should be like the gpl | Oct 04 17:07 |
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| brunomiguel | all about respect | Oct 04 17:07 |
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| MinceR | gpl is merely an attempt to subvert evil copyright law | Oct 04 17:08 |
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| brunomiguel | and it sets rules so everyone, from the users to the developers, are in equal terms | Oct 04 17:08 |
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| brunomiguel | that's my interpretation of the gpl | Oct 04 17:09 |
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| MinceR | it does so to the extent law allows it to | Oct 04 17:09 |
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| brunomiguel | and the law is not that bad. it's subverted, it has some "dark spots", but it helps | Oct 04 17:10 |
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| Tallken | Power corrupts | Oct 04 17:12 |
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| Tallken | people with no dreams can't follow rules | Oct 04 17:12 |
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| Tallken | unless forced | Oct 04 17:12 |
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| Tallken | unless they are stopped by someone more powerful | Oct 04 17:12 |
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| Tallken | but those powerful people must be controlled | Oct 04 17:12 |
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| Tallken | so | Oct 04 17:12 |
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| Tallken | we're in a dangerous dependency path | Oct 04 17:13 |
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| Tallken | democracy is the best system we know so far | Oct 04 17:13 |
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| MinceR | yes, the law is that bad | Oct 04 17:13 |
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| MinceR | it allows a group of people to rob me, oppress me and tell me how to live my life | Oct 04 17:13 |
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| MinceR | while not protecting my interests or my rights | Oct 04 17:14 |
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| Tallken | MinceR: you're being sarcastic, I hope? | Oct 04 17:14 |
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| MinceR | i'm getting constantly harrassed by authorities and companies who are put into the position of an authority | Oct 04 17:14 |
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| MinceR | and i'm really tired of it | Oct 04 17:14 |
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| MinceR | Tallken: no, i'm being realistic | Oct 04 17:14 |
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| Tallken | MinceR: the problem isn't authority | Oct 04 17:14 |
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| Tallken | MinceR: is who is in those positions | Oct 04 17:14 |
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| Tallken | MinceR: you can only ensure whois there is fair | Oct 04 17:15 |
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| MinceR | for an ontopic example, see what SweatyB did here in hungary not too long ago | Oct 04 17:15 |
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| Tallken | MinceR: you can't eliminate authority | Oct 04 17:15 |
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| MinceR | Tallken: only worthless assholes will want those positions | Oct 04 17:15 |
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| Tallken | what? | Oct 04 17:15 |
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| MinceR | reasonable people don't try to make a career out of meddling with affairs they know nothing about | Oct 04 17:15 |
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| Tallken | MinceR: what are we talking about exactly? | Oct 04 17:16 |
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| MinceR | Tallken: they've paid at least 35 million forints to microsoft in various ways for their products | Oct 04 17:16 |
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| MinceR | even though we need none of it | Oct 04 17:16 |
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| MinceR | oh, part of it went to marketing m$ products under the umbrella of "education" | Oct 04 17:16 |
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| MinceR | and some of that money came from the EU | Oct 04 17:17 |
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| MinceR | but still, it all comes from taxpayers | Oct 04 17:17 |
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| Tallken | same here, in Portugal | Oct 04 17:17 |
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| MinceR | the city i'm living in is falling apart | Oct 04 17:17 |
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| MinceR | transportation is close to nonexistent | Oct 04 17:17 |
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| MinceR | the freedom of people all over the world is severely constrained | Oct 04 17:18 |
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| MinceR | (see what they're doing in the name of "protecting intellectual property") | Oct 04 17:18 |
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| MinceR | most of the population here is torn between choosing which of the two great assholes to give control over the country | Oct 04 17:20 |
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| MinceR | both of them do the same thing | Oct 04 17:20 |
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| twitter | Oh, I do like that hiring freeze. Nice spot. | Oct 04 17:23 |
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| MinceR | guess who are the only people in this country who have their expenses paid by the state without having to show invoices | Oct 04 17:25 |
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| MinceR | members of parliament | Oct 04 17:25 |
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| MinceR | while tax authorities keep having everyone else do ridiculous amounts of administrating exactly how much we owe the state | Oct 04 17:26 |
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| *_Doug (n=_Doug@78-105-5-61.zone3.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Oct 04 17:28 |
| _Doug | hi there .. "Firefox can't find the server at boycottnovell.com" | Oct 04 17:29 |
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| brunomiguel | _Doug: it works with me, using Icecat | Oct 04 17:30 |
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| _Doug | Is back again .. | Oct 04 17:39 |
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| _Doug | temperory local bork ? | Oct 04 17:39 |
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| MinceR | Emperor-y! | Oct 04 17:39 |
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| _Doug | temporary .. | Oct 04 17:39 |
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| _Doug | English is not my native tongue .. | Oct 04 17:40 |
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| _Doug | are we all just going to sit here and stare at our keyboards .. | Oct 04 17:42 |
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| trmanco | I guess so | Oct 04 17:42 |
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| _Doug | in that case I'm off to watch the wierdos on Youtube .. | Oct 04 17:43 |
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| *_Doug has quit () | Oct 04 17:43 |
| MinceR | oh, the online weirdo sharing service ;) | Oct 04 17:44 |
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| trmanco | lol | Oct 04 17:44 |
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| trmanco | #1 | Oct 04 17:44 |
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| *trmanco is is off for a while | Oct 04 17:46 |
| twitter | ha ha, http://www.networkworld.com/comm... | Oct 04 17:47 |
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| twitter | I could use a few mod points here to undo the result of M$ cleaning action, http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=98... | Oct 04 17:48 |
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| twitter | I know, no one but trolls have mod points on Slashdot these days. | Oct 04 17:49 |
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| MinceR | not really, i sometimes get some | Oct 04 17:49 |
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| MinceR | but there are way too many clueless mods nowadays, i'll grant that | Oct 04 17:49 |
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| MinceR | (or astroturfing mods) | Oct 04 17:49 |
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| twitter | They target me for sure. | Oct 04 17:49 |
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| twitter | I've seen them dump as many as 15 points at a time onto my comments. | Oct 04 17:50 |
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| twitter | They do the same for any account they think is mine. | Oct 04 17:51 |
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| twitter | I got the first post and watched a big mod point fight over it. I hope it cost them plenty. | Oct 04 17:53 |
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| twitter | You might go vote up my M$ hiring freeze journal submission. It would be nice to see that front paged. | Oct 04 17:53 |
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| MinceR | i've spent my mod points already | Oct 04 18:03 |
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| MinceR | oh, you mean firehose? | Oct 04 18:03 |
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| twitter | Yes, firehose. Anyone can nod there. | Oct 04 18:06 |
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| MinceR | meanwhile, http://developers.slashdot.org/article.p... | Oct 04 18:07 |
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