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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: November 1st, 2008


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MinceRgnNov 01 01:06
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yuhongBTW, on Apple, what if the IBM PC did not exist?Nov 01 04:31
yuhongI am kind of neutral on Windows vs Mac vs Linux, but even I think that MS's attempts to kill Linux using patents. is bad.Nov 01 04:47
yuhongI don't think MS or Windows will be dead anytime soon.Nov 01 04:47
yuhongBut I still think that the patent part of the MS-Novell deal was bad.Nov 01 04:48
yuhongAnd I still think that ODF is more open than OOXML.Nov 01 04:48
yuhongAnd believe that anything in OOXML that isn't in ODF can be added to ODF using extensions, which is far better.Nov 01 04:49
yuhongI am no fan of .NET, I focus more on Win32.Nov 01 04:49
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schestowitzOn top of economical issues: Odd Tides in Maine <  >; California water - lack of < >Nov 01 09:13
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schestowitzSony recalls 100,000 PC batteries < >Nov 01 09:18
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tessierZFS-FUSE is actually sounding rather promising. Linux may not really be locked out of FUSE in practice.Nov 01 09:47
tessierI'm going to have to get this working on a box and do some testing.Nov 01 09:47
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schestowitzIs this for a datacentre?Nov 01 09:49
tessierIs what for a datacentre?Nov 01 09:50
tessierZFS-FUSE is something you run on a server. Nothing to do with datacentre except that you  might choose to locate your server in one.Nov 01 09:51
trmancoI think I just learned a lesson todayNov 01 09:52
trmancoNot to use proprietary drivers is a good thing...Nov 01 09:57
trmancoThe driver I was using was crashing compiz :|Nov 01 09:59
schestowitzWhich card?Nov 01 10:00
trmancoX800Nov 01 10:01
trmancoradeon x800 or R430 chipsetNov 01 10:01
trmancoand I had double Xorg processes when I was using that driverNov 01 10:01
trmancoI still have to test it better, but for what I've tested so far with the open source driver it hasn't crashes yetNov 01 10:02
trmancocrashed*Nov 01 10:02
trmancobetter it would freeze the systemNov 01 10:03
trmanco...Nov 01 10:03
schestowitzHmmm.Nov 01 10:04
trmancoIt is a little slower, but will doNov 01 10:05
schestowitzIt will be nice when NVIdia give up and opens it all up.Nov 01 10:05
trmancololNov 01 10:05
schestowitzSome day in the future it'll be sensible to predict that these drivers will become open source and part of your distro/kernel.Nov 01 10:05
trmancoI wish Ati did thatNov 01 10:05
schestowitzJust plug-and-play.Nov 01 10:05
trmancobrbNov 01 10:13
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trmancolooks like it is working like a charm :-)Nov 01 10:19
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MinceRj0Nov 01 13:09
trmanco 01 13:20
schestowitz 01 13:20
schestowitzThe one you link to may be inaccurate if it's Hitsink, but it says "HitsLink".Nov 01 13:21
trmancothey probably are inaccurateNov 01 13:28
trmancowellNov 01 13:28
trmancowhen I posted the link here there was a notice at the top saying that they may not be accurate as the statistics haven't been reviewed by there QA teamNov 01 13:29
schestowitzQA=sponsor?Nov 01 13:35
trmancoQuality assurance teamNov 01 13:45
trmancoor something similarNov 01 13:46
trmanco 01 13:52
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EruaranhelloNov 01 14:01
schestowitzHe there.Nov 01 14:02
schestowitz*HeyNov 01 14:02
Eruaranhi royNov 01 14:02
schestowitzI wrote about the Dell thing.Nov 01 14:02
Eruaranyeah I saw thatNov 01 14:02
schestowitz 01 14:02
EruaranHave you seen the Windows 7 vids from PDC ?Nov 01 14:03
schestowitzVista 7 you mean?Nov 01 14:03
EruaranIts unbelievable...Nov 01 14:03
EruaranyesNov 01 14:03
schestowitzWhat's not believable?Nov 01 14:03
EruaranMy jaw droppedNov 01 14:03
EruaranWhen I saw a desktop panel that looked like KDE 3.5Nov 01 14:03
schestowitzWhat's the URL?Nov 01 14:03
schestowitzOhNov 01 14:03
schestowitzThat!!Nov 01 14:03
schestowitzFor a moment I thought they took Compiz-fusion to task.Nov 01 14:04
schestowitzI heard about the KDE thing.Nov 01 14:04
EruaranAnd systray popup widgets that look like they were copied straight from KDE 4.1Nov 01 14:04
Eruaranwithout the sexy dark oxygen themeNov 01 14:04
Eruaranthings that react to mouse movementNov 01 14:05
EruaranLike umm... KDE 4.1Nov 01 14:05
EruaranAnd, being able to drop icons and things from the 'start' menu and put them on the "new" taskbar in a way that is just like ummm....Nov 01 14:06
EruaranKDE...Nov 01 14:06
EruaranI meanNov 01 14:06
EruaranI'm actually shockedNov 01 14:06
schestowitzYou mean previews?Nov 01 14:07
EruaranI didn't expect that they'd be doing anything but spying on AppleNov 01 14:07
Eruaran:PNov 01 14:07
schestowitzI'm amazed at how powerful KDE+Konqueror are, but I haven't used Windows for ages.Nov 01 14:07
schestowitzI knew every corner of KDE 3.1Nov 01 14:08
EruaranIt looks like their devs main project was 'brows and get "inspiration"'Nov 01 14:08
EruaranAnd the news is starting to spreadNov 01 14:08
schestowitzEruaran: seen their Apple copy yet? Hold on...Nov 01 14:08
schestowitzThat's where they get 'inspiration'. I'll get a link.Nov 01 14:08
EruaranI googled "windows 7 looks like kde" and found I am far from the only one who noticed :PNov 01 14:09
schestowitzYou beat me to in re: "inspiration"Nov 01 14:09
schestowitzThey just happen to /PATENT/ their so-called "inspiration"Nov 01 14:09
EruaranThe whole frigging Windows 7 desktop is prior art...Nov 01 14:09
EruaranNow I know how a Mac user feelsNov 01 14:10
EruaranI'm totally blown away by just how blatant the ripping off isNov 01 14:10
schestowitzHere is Microsoft copying Apple (leaked memo): 01 14:11
schestowitzMore at and 01 14:11
EruaranHave a look: 01 14:12
schestowitzThanks.Nov 01 14:14
schestowitzBe sure to read that leak about Apple. Your jaw might drop again.Nov 01 14:14
Eruaranyes I've got the links open nowNov 01 14:15
schestowitzIt's like a circus.Nov 01 14:16
schestowitzWhere they show all kinds of sci-fi useless stuff.Nov 01 14:16
schestowitzThe Surface too would be killed if it were not for Gates' insistence. it not costs over $13500 and it's a total failure.Nov 01 14:17
EruaranHonestly, we had KDE 4.1 (and the boss has been playing with 4.2 svn) at work and I was comparing Kubuntu 8.10's desktop with some of the stuff in the videos and I was like WTF... the dark tower is stealing from KDENov 01 14:17
schestowitzIt's some tool for Microsoft to say "look! We make big products and can emulate Minority Report-like useless stuff. Never mind if has no consumer market, especially amid Depression 2.0"Nov 01 14:17
EruaranyesNov 01 14:18
EruaranVista 7: Now with RSINov 01 14:18
schestowitzThe new situation can change a lot.Nov 01 14:18
schestowitzMicrosoft needs to sell new hardware to be workable.Nov 01 14:18
schestowitzPeople can't afford new PC, except for in rich place, which is a small minority of the world.Nov 01 14:18
EruaranBut its all focused on the interface... the idea that if you just make it pretty, people will want itNov 01 14:19
schestowitzIt's possible that technological advancement, owing to its cost, will some day in the future imperil and reduce convenience rather than improve that. Public transportation due to emissions is one example.Nov 01 14:19
EruaranThere is NO semantic desktop from MicrosoftNov 01 14:19
schestowitzIf Microsoft can't slip down, then it's bound to have a hard timeNov 01 14:19
schestowitzLinux scales wellNov 01 14:19
schestowitzMobile devices and supercomputers use the same type of kernel.Nov 01 14:19
schestowitzWindows Mobile is a fork/hack.Nov 01 14:20
schestowitzANd it's said to be dying.Nov 01 14:20
EruaranyesNov 01 14:20
schestowitzNepomuk gets some integration with Gwenview now.Nov 01 14:20
schestowitzNot just Dolphin, IIRC>Nov 01 14:20
schestowitzI saw it the other day and put a link up in BN.Nov 01 14:20
EruaranThe difference between FOSS and this show Microsoft put in is, where the rubber hits the road reality: How is it in reality on people's PC's, their notebooks, netbooks and mobile devices.Nov 01 14:22
EruaranAnd the reality will be far from what Microsoft puts on at some show.Nov 01 14:23
schestowitzWell, it's a *show*Nov 01 14:27
Eruaranlol yesNov 01 14:27
schestowitzThey put on a *show*Nov 01 14:27
Eruarannow, lets see that *show* running on a Dell Mini 9Nov 01 14:27
EruaranAnd of course they have nothing that runs on ARMNov 01 14:28
schestowitz  End of signed messageNov 01 14:28
schestowitz 01 14:28
schestowitzBlueGene laughs at Surface. It's like Godzilla and BambiNov 01 14:29
schestowitzBefore running to Surface, Gates insisted on the now-almost-lost ambition to bring Windows to supercomputers (it was delayed over and over again). His envy of Linux dominance in the computers which run the world (services and compute clusters) couldn't be abated, so they found another kitsch.Nov 01 14:33
Eruaranhave a look at this, it only goes for a few secsNov 01 14:46
Eruaran 01 14:46
EruaranNotice the panel, just like KDE 3.5 with translucency onNov 01 14:46
EruaranNotice the widgets that pop up, they look like KDE 4, even down to the translucent border bits, they're just 'white' instead of blackNov 01 14:47
schestowitzIt looks like my Mandriva 2008.1 with CompizNov 01 14:56
Eruaranlol :PNov 01 14:56
schestowitzMirosoft Vista 7... reaching 2008... some time in 2010. Maybe.Nov 01 14:56
Eruaranme and my boss share the same opinionNov 01 14:56
schestowitzYou /do/ realise that Vista 7 already had a "Critical" flaw last week, right?Nov 01 14:57
EruaranIt will be so full of holes it will be swiss cheeseNov 01 14:57
schestowitzTell this to your boss.Nov 01 14:57
EruaranyesNov 01 14:57
schestowitzFull compromise, no user intervention necessary!Nov 01 14:57
EruaranWe need the public to see that sort of failure on full displayNov 01 14:58
EruaranPoeple need to understand that putting lipstick on a pig doesn't magically turn it into a swanNov 01 14:58
schestowitztwitter might do a Vista7failurelogNov 01 14:59
schestowitzHas has a Vista failurelog that's popular. It's an index of failures.Nov 01 14:59
Eruaranor... just make contributions to failblogNov 01 14:59
schestowitz??Nov 01 14:59
Eruaranyoure not familiar with failblog ?Nov 01 14:59
schestowitz 01 14:59
schestowitzNew to me.Nov 01 15:00
EruaranyesNov 01 15:00
Eruaranhours of laughsNov 01 15:00
schestowitzI was on this blog before.Nov 01 15:01
schestowitzI see " " in my historyNov 01 15:01
Eruaranhaha yesNov 01 15:02
schestowitzBTW, it turns out that over 40% of the sub-notebooks run GNU/Linux.Nov 01 15:08
schestowitzASUS claims that the Eee are like 30%-70%Nov 01 15:08
schestowitzJerry Shen said this the other day, as reported by The Register.Nov 01 15:09
schestowitzSo I don't believe the Gartner BSNov 01 15:09
EruaranI never believe Gartner's BSNov 01 15:12
EruaranGarnter told us and Acer that Asus was going to quit doing Linux netbooksNov 01 15:13
EruaranThey said Asus was having too much trouble with themNov 01 15:13
EruaranMicrosoft can only stick so many fingers in the dyke before it bursts open, and the "encouragement" they offer companies like Asus to go with XP only has a limited lifespanNov 01 15:15
schestowitzHackers Steal Money From French President Sarkozy's Bank Account < >Nov 01 15:15
schestowitzHe also tried to ban voodoo dolls bearing his image. :-) :-)Nov 01 15:16
schestowitzThe ASUS sub-notebooks running Linpus just got 8/10 from OSNews. That was yesterday.Nov 01 15:16
Eruaranrunning linpus ?Nov 01 15:17
schestowitzMicrosoft loses money due to the 'Great NetBook DUMP'Nov 01 15:17
schestowitzIt admitted this in its last repoirtNov 01 15:17
schestowitzEruaran: yes, running Linpus. But Eugena suggested that they use Ubuntu 8.10 instead.Nov 01 15:18
EruaranMark Shuttleworth said he has it from reliable sources that Microsoft is giving Windows awayNov 01 15:18
twitterIn real world, Netbooks dump on M$.Nov 01 15:18
twittergood morning.Nov 01 15:18
EruaranhelloNov 01 15:18
schestowitzEruaran: AWAY?Nov 01 15:21
schestowitzEruaran: please find the link, if possible.Nov 01 15:21
schestowitzI suspected that it was cheaper than the $29 or $18... but I also heard about Microsoft taking a loss.Nov 01 15:21
schestowitzNo hard evidence though..Nov 01 15:21
EruaranOk I'll see if I can find itNov 01 15:22
schestowitzIf you find it, then it's worth a post and public complaint.Nov 01 15:22
schestowitzThe EU commission would treat that as market abuse.Nov 01 15:22
twitterHere's the Vista Failure Log, if you are interested. 01 15:22
twitterI am starting a Vista 7 log too.Nov 01 15:23
twitterand I have a M$ Death Watch. which is worth looking at for the theme music if nothing else.Nov 01 15:23
twitter 01 15:24
EruaranGot it schestowitzNov 01 15:31
Eruaran"I've heard creditable reports of Microsoft offering XP at no cost to OEMs." - 01 15:32
EruaranIts only one line I guess but its the first time I've heard anyone say thatNov 01 15:35
schestowitzCool.Nov 01 15:35
schestowitz.I'll post about it.Nov 01 15:36
Eruaranwe had a bit of lol at work todayNov 01 15:36
Eruaranone of our guys called microsoftNov 01 15:36
Eruaranthats almost a garuanteed lolNov 01 15:37
Eruaranhe is indian as well, so its even funnier with his accentNov 01 15:37
Eruaranto see him slamming the phone down calling them "bluddy idiots"Nov 01 15:38
Eruaranwhich reminds meNov 01 15:38
Eruaranwe have an infamous little incident we like to tell people aboutNov 01 15:38
Eruaranwe called microsoft one day to sort out the vista business downgrade to XPP for a customerNov 01 15:39
Eruaranthe confused reply (and I kid you not) was this:Nov 01 15:39
Eruaran"What is Vista ?"Nov 01 15:39
schestowitzI'll put the quote in the headline... to make it common knowledge.Nov 01 15:40
EruaranlolNov 01 15:40
Eruaranoh that quoteNov 01 15:40
EruaranI thought you were gonna put "What is Vista ?" in :PNov 01 15:40
Eruaranthe infamous sinkhole of support was extra sinky that dayNov 01 15:41
EruaranSomehow I doubt Microsoft will give us XP for freeNov 01 15:42
EruaranWe sold two systems yesterday with Ubuntu 8.10 on themNov 01 15:42
schestowitzI'll put the MS (Mark S.) quote upNov 01 15:45
schestowitzI also look for a good video related to this.Nov 01 15:45
EruarancoolNov 01 15:45
schestowitzI wish videos were indexed properly.Nov 01 15:45
schestowitzI have to go by memory and numbersNov 01 15:45
schestowitzFound it. It's posted now: (short and right to the point, hopefully)Nov 01 15:53
schestowitzI have a very long item about Microsoft failures that I still proofread. I suspect that long items are not being read carefully though. Nov 01 15:54
twitterI like the RMS way of doing things and have tried to improve on it.Nov 01 16:29
twitterHe makes small entries of interest.  Each one is accurate and builds trust.  In time, the reader knows RMS is just right.Nov 01 16:30
schestowitzHe hasn't 'blogged' in a while.Nov 01 16:31
schestowitzHe probably travels now.Nov 01 16:31
twitterHe's got a slew of stuff out today.Nov 01 16:31
twitteryesterday.Nov 01 16:32
twitterIt's also time to change your links.  The last notes ended October 31.Nov 01 16:32
twitterI don't know about the RSS feed.Nov 01 16:32
schestowitzIt should be universal, I think.Nov 01 16:33
schestowitzWe're thinking about dumping COLA in USENET to start a moderated newsgroupNov 01 16:33
schestowitzCleanup time.Nov 01 16:33
schestowitzThe trolls can be flushed over to Slashdot or whatever -- wherever all the trash is being tolerated.Nov 01 16:34
twitterIt's hard to have a large open system and keep the trolls out.Nov 01 16:34
twitterIn any case, my improvement to the Stallman method is to include quotes and make big blogs referencing the little ones.Nov 01 16:35
twitterEverybody does something like this.Nov 01 16:36
schestowitzMicro-blogging.Nov 01 16:37
schestowitzTwittering.Nov 01 16:37
schestowitzEven IRC here serves as something similar, but real-time/Nov 01 16:37
twitterThen you can tie it together with something overwhelming like the Vista Failure Log.Nov 01 16:38
schestowitzThe push for this IRC came from a reader who repeatedly insisted that we make it.Nov 01 16:38
schestowitzYes, like this one: 01 16:38
twitterI kind of got the idea from a book called "The Russian Century" which detailed 100 years of Soviet horror from the inside.Nov 01 16:39
twitterEach accusation alone was petty and debatable, but they are all reinforcing as truth is.Nov 01 16:40
schestowitzLike COmes vs Microsoft (Iowa)Nov 01 16:41
twitterYes, because M$ uses brainwashing.Nov 01 16:42
schestowitzBB buys it.Nov 01 16:42
schestowitzI needed that OOXML index to rebut the BS from Al3x Br0wn.Nov 01 16:42
twitterNice Index.Nov 01 16:44
twitter:)Nov 01 16:44
schestowitzIt makes it hard for ISO to say that all was fine when faced with this.Nov 01 16:45
schestowitzIf you give a small complaint that's specific, they can then call it nitpickingNov 01 16:45
schestowitzMicrosoft uses the same method to defend OOXML. Found a bug? Na... it's just a small thing in 7000 pages.Nov 01 16:46
twitterGroklaw had a similar index for the fight against odf didn't they?Nov 01 16:52
schestowitzMaybe.Nov 01 16:53
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schestowitzThere's an article (static page) for each topic.Nov 01 16:53
schestowitzhey, _doug Nov 01 16:53
EruaranGroklaw is a seminal site. Required reading.Nov 01 16:53
schestowitzDoes GL have an index on the fight against ODF?Nov 01 16:54
_doughey .. quiztime ..Nov 01 16:54
_dougin what movie do you have ..Nov 01 16:54
_dougwell .. later maybe .. not a suitable subject for this chan ..Nov 01 16:55
twitter 01 16:55
EruaranI'm a bit suspicious that Excel does wierd things to spreadsheet data saved in OpenOfficeNov 01 16:55
twitterand 01 16:56
twitterExcel does weird things to math in generalNov 01 16:56
schestowitzEruaran: do you have proof?Nov 01 16:56
schestowitzIt's possible that negligence and not sabotage may cause this.Nov 01 16:56
EruaranI'm still assessing itNov 01 16:56
EruaranIt made me rage earlier though :PNov 01 16:57
schestowitzMicrosoft never prioritises rivals... not entertaining them on its platform.. Netscape, Borland, Firefox, iTunes, etc.Nov 01 16:57
EruaranI prefer to use scalc anyway thoughNov 01 16:57
schestowitzEruaran: Excel gets its maths wrong.Nov 01 16:57
schestowitzThere were bugs in caluculusNov 01 16:57
EruaranI like being able to highlight, drag and drop tables and thingsNov 01 16:58
twitterWe all have different ideas about duty.  M$ would consider it negligent if their products did not sabotage competitors.Nov 01 16:58
EruaranExcel makes you cut and paste, then leaves colours and formatting behind, orphaned as it were... scalc is more productiveNov 01 16:58
schestowitz"These pages are a group effort, by many volunteers, but the brunt of the load was carried by Scott Lazar, grouch, mojotoad, Chris Knadle, Adrian, Mecha, Ed_L, and PJ. The pages are maintained by grouch and PJ. "Nov 01 17:00
twitterGood collaboration.Nov 01 17:01
twitterI think your ABC index should be linked into this page 01 17:04
twitterYou might present it to PJ and see what she thinks.Nov 01 17:05
schestowitzIt doesn't matter.Nov 01 17:05
Eruaranschestowitz: remember how we were talking about Microsoft's Windows 7 show ?Nov 01 17:05
schestowitzNot sure it's worth the hassle...Nov 01 17:05
Eruaranschestowitz: Here's a revealing quote: "many of the new features in Windows 7 are absent from the build given to the press"Nov 01 17:05
schestowitzEruaran: yes, any more news?Nov 01 17:05
schestowitzOf course.Nov 01 17:05
schestowitzThey also put some optimised version on a netbook to deceive.Nov 01 17:06
schestowitzI told trmanco about it.Nov 01 17:06
schestowitzSo many people are fooled by it.Nov 01 17:06
schestowitzYou can also run Ubuntu on an OLPC XO. SO what?Nov 01 17:06
EruaranYou can run Ubuntu on the smell of an oily ragNov 01 17:07
schestowitzIt's like a circus when a stuntsman 'eats' knives.Nov 01 17:07
EruaranWell, not quite, but I checked out its RAM usage the other day and I was pleasantly surprisedNov 01 17:07
schestowitzThey work for months preparing this little show, thinking what to show and what not to show.Nov 01 17:07
schestowitz(and which journalists to kick out. ;-) )Nov 01 17:08
Eruaran"if they took *all* the shit out of Vista, we'd be left with, CP/M <cough, sorry> ^H^H^H^H DOS."Nov 01 17:11
_dougot: McCainites dig up Obamas lost auntie .. :)Nov 01 17:12
_doug 01 17:12
schestowitzLast-minute stunts?Nov 01 17:12
_doug"AP says its information about Ms Onyango, 56, is based on two separate sources, one of them a federal law enforcement official"Nov 01 17:12
Eruaran"lost" auntie ?Nov 01 17:13
twitterVista 7 will go the same way Vista did.Nov 01 17:13
schestowitzMore last-minute smears.Nov 01 17:13
twitterbut fasterNov 01 17:13
schestowitzYesNov 01 17:13
schestowitzPeople learnd from Vista 6Nov 01 17:13
schestowitzAKA LonghornNov 01 17:13
twitterThe Wintel press lost a lot of credibility.  They have more pretending to do and won't be able to lie as much.Nov 01 17:14
twitterThey might even, gasp, research.Nov 01 17:14
schestowitzThey 'bought out' Phoronix.Nov 01 17:14
twitterand smeared Ubuntu a week later, ha ha.Nov 01 17:15
_doug"lost a bid for asylum" .. get with the program .. :)Nov 01 17:15
schestowitzOh, *that*Nov 01 17:15
schestowitzI didn't think about thatNov 01 17:15
twitterand you can't, thanks to the new owners.Nov 01 17:16
schestowitzWhat I find to be trolling there is the bit where he made up names for releases.Nov 01 17:16
schestowitzMicchael is very professional, so I was surprised he did that.Nov 01 17:16
schestowitzAnd Slashdot had a sensationalist headline,Nov 01 17:16
schestowitzDo me a favour and check who submitted to /.Nov 01 17:16
schestowitzAnd under what headline.Nov 01 17:17
twitterM$ massages these things for months to get the result they want.  Their influence is subtle.Nov 01 17:17
twitterThe sum of many tiny lies is a whopper.Nov 01 17:17
twittercheckingNov 01 17:17
schestowitzI'd still like to find out about /.Nov 01 17:18
schestowitzThey sometimes change headlines of the submitter though, right?Nov 01 17:18
twitterHeadline published, "Is Ubuntu Getting Slower"Nov 01 17:19
twitter 01 17:19
twitterSubmitted by ACNov 01 17:19
schestowitzWho's ACNov 01 17:20
schestowitzI think he submits to /. sometimes.Nov 01 17:20
twitterNo account troll.Nov 01 17:20
schestowitzI know there are many ACs, but..Nov 01 17:20
schestowitzOh.Nov 01 17:21
schestowitzAC as in anonymous cowardNov 01 17:21
schestowitz.Tagged flamebait.Nov 01 17:21
schestowitz"Ubuntu 7.04 was certainly the Feisty Fawn for performance, but based upon these results perhaps it would be better to call Ubuntu 7.10 the Gooey Gibbon, 8.04 the Hungover Heron, and 8.10 the Idling Ibex.'"Nov 01 17:21
schestowitzMicrosofters will have a fun day passing this around.Nov 01 17:21
schestowitzThey did in USENET, obviously.Nov 01 17:22
twitteryes, Slashdot followed with Ubuntu kicks Vista Ass article where comments noted Ubuntu also kicks XPs ass.Nov 01 17:22
schestowitzAhNov 01 17:22
twitterDon't think the trolls followed up like that.Nov 01 17:22
twitter 01 17:23
twitterha haNov 01 17:23
twitterThis would explain M$'s shift in focus to Vista 7.  The competition outdoes them and people have noticed.Nov 01 17:24
schestowitzShould be tagged "Duh"Nov 01 17:24
twitterM$ must now pretend Vista 7 is everything GNU/Linux is and more.Nov 01 17:24
schestowitzI saw this short review yesterday.Nov 01 17:24
schestowitzDidn't Ed Molzen actually /compare/ Ubuntu 8.10 to Vista 6?Nov 01 17:25
twitterSo they trotted out the rigged up netbook.Nov 01 17:25
schestowitzIt seems like the /Nov 01 17:25
schestowitzIt seems like the /. headline is baseless in the sense that there is no evidence.Nov 01 17:25
twitterSummary had "early benchmarking (Geekbench, boot times, etc.)"Nov 01 17:26
twitterarticle, follows well tooNov 01 17:27
schestowitzIt reassures me knowing that we look at the right issues.Nov 01 17:27
twitter"Without much fanfare, developers of Ubuntu Linux have delivered the latest version of the open source operating system that scores higher than Windows Vista in performance testing, does a better job than Windows in making wireless connectivity easy and, overall, leaves fewer reasons to stick with Windows than any other previous release of Linux."Nov 01 17:27
schestowitzMicrosoft knows that taxing its competitors and exlcuding them is all that's left. Thus the Novell cash infusions.Nov 01 17:27
twitterNo matches found for 'freedom' in article.Nov 01 17:28
schestowitzAlso, making the Web less of a commodity with XAML and XPS (and OOXML) is their goal.Nov 01 17:28
schestowitzLockin, patents, and exclusion.Nov 01 17:28
schestowitzWhen you talk to most people about "Freefom" they think of convenience.Nov 01 17:28
schestowitzAs in, "I'm free to watch TV".Nov 01 17:29
twitterAll lockout laid out in Halloween docs.Nov 01 17:29
schestowitzRMS talked to us about it... here in Manchester.Nov 01 17:29
schestowitzPeople still confuse the terms... they are inclined to believe they have the FREEDOM to use Vista.Nov 01 17:29
schestowitzThe Freedom to enable lack of FreedomNov 01 17:29
_dougOpen Source FUD Flies at Florida Higher Education Conference ..Nov 01 17:29
_doug 01 17:29
twitterThe freedom to sell themselves into slaveryNov 01 17:29
schestowitzAnother related debate is BSD "Free" and GPL "Free"Nov 01 17:30
schestowitzThanks _doug Nov 01 17:30
twitterFSF has well written prose to bore people with.Nov 01 17:30
schestowitzHa!Nov 01 17:30
schestowitzIDGNov 01 17:30
schestowitzMuther*Nov 01 17:30
schestowitzIDCNov 01 17:30
schestowitzThey now advertise in Phoronix.Nov 01 17:30
_doug'Adrian Sannier .. argues that cost savings will be consumed by the consulting fees paid to deploy "community-source enterprise applications." "The consultants who help you are like bartenders serving drunks," he's quoted as saying'Nov 01 17:30
schestowitzI warned Michael about it, but he did it anywayNov 01 17:30
twitterPeople are starting to understand how freedom matters in computing.Nov 01 17:31
schestowitzOh wait.Nov 01 17:31
schestowitzI didn't read it carefully.Nov 01 17:31
twitterThe more people know about computers, the more they understand software freedom.Nov 01 17:31
schestowitzIDG is the publisher (carrier), not the FUD..Nov 01 17:31
twitterwaiting.Nov 01 17:31
_dougWhat Adrian don't seem to realize is that, once you form a users group with other schools, you get your IT 'consultancy' for free, and he can then spend the leftovers on on more drinks :)Nov 01 17:32
twitterThat's funny, _doug, the guy who ran ended up a bartender.Nov 01 17:32
_dougif he really wants to save on drinks, he would be better off buying some cheap plonk in a supermarket and going round to someones house ...Nov 01 17:33
_dougthat's what most peopel do nowadays ..Nov 01 17:33
_doug:)Nov 01 17:34
twittersuper yeast and sugarNov 01 17:34
_doug"This is an area where open source evangelists need to educate the educators"Nov 01 17:34
twitterEducators are learning on their own.Nov 01 17:34
_doughey, remember where former Open Source people get a job at MS, how about getting a former MS evangelist to now promote Open Source :?Nov 01 17:35
twitterM$ pollutes the recycle chain with their certified refurbisher program though.Nov 01 17:35
twitterIt's more of the same, convince the decision makers that people need their crappy OS.Nov 01 17:36
schestowitz_doug: that's a bad ideaNov 01 17:37
twitterFirehosed your corruption index 01 17:37
schestowitzSee the new comment from Needs Sunlight here: 01 17:37
schestowitztwitter: the introduction would need updating though.Nov 01 17:37
schestowitzI have to run in a moment (literally). The gym closes at 8PMNov 01 17:38
_dougopen source digital library content management solution ..Nov 01 17:38
_doug 01 17:38
_douglater ..Nov 01 17:39
twitterlaterNov 01 17:39
*_doug has quit ()Nov 01 17:39
*_doug (n=_doug) has joined #boycottnovellNov 01 17:57
_dougsomething really usefull ..Nov 01 17:58
_dougkeyboard feedback when your typing and the text cursor isn't in a textbox ..Nov 01 17:58
_doughowabout the keys vibrating or going 'mushy' ?Nov 01 17:59
_dougcome on, in this age of 'innovation' ..Nov 01 17:59
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PetoKrausschestowitz: 01 19:15
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schestowitzD R Ahem... won't work.Nov 01 20:25
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schestowitzNew York Times seems to just publish lots of IDG stuff these days. Are they losing writers?Nov 01 22:01
macabeNewspapers have been losing readership for a long time, also the major media outlets. Most of them sound like sensationalist rags. (Alien life discovered in commode slugs)Nov 01 22:09
schestowitzIt's sad in a way.Nov 01 22:09
schestowitzThe main danger now is AstroTurf blogs (marketing blogs0.Nov 01 22:10
schestowitzNovell has them too and I've kept track of their names.Nov 01 22:10
macabeIt's very sad, now when reading a newspaper you have to triple check its source.Nov 01 22:11
schestowitzWhat do you mean?Nov 01 22:11
macabeZero facts. A lot of op-ed.Nov 01 22:12
schestowitzReporting that's original requires a lot of work. Teams of investigators. They rely on selling out to someone's interests sometimes.Nov 01 22:13
macabeSeems that you get better detailed facts from the reputable blogs-even if they're emotive.Nov 01 22:14
macabeBecause of emotive interests, they want to cross every T and dot every i as much as they can.Nov 01 22:18
schestowitzBlogs are fastNov 01 22:18
schestowitzThey rely on other blogs that they cite with hyperlinks.Nov 01 22:18
schestowitzIt makes it easier to validate facts.Nov 01 22:18
schestowitzIt's like micro-journalist, but it's fact and disparate.Nov 01 22:19
schestowitz*fastNov 01 22:19
macabeIt's what Dan Gillmor saidNov 01 22:20
macabePublic journalismNov 01 22:20
macabeIt's why I like BN, Groklaw, Marcel's Wftl, RMS, Lessig, etc.  It take courage to stand out and point out and question 'wrongs' against the common folk.Nov 01 22:25
schestowitzYou read RMS?Nov 01 22:26
schestowitzI haven't subscribed to Marcel yet, but his show is great. Lessig has gone political, but I still read him.Nov 01 22:27
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macabeYes, but haven't in a while. Lost my links, been traveling a lot lately with a new eeepc 1000 given to me as a gift. Have to take a dose of my medicine and backup my favs. BN & GL easy to remember.Nov 01 22:30
macabeAnyway was able to get rid of xandros and install gnewsense on it.Nov 01 22:31
schestowitzOn the Eee? 'Vanilla' gnusense?Nov 01 22:35
schestowitzGnsense [sic] will become part of Ubuntu.Nov 01 22:36
schestowitzGobuntu or whatever... an install options, says Jono Bacon, but it remains to be seen it they are committed to deed, not just words.Nov 01 22:36
macabeYeah first install it on a usb key. Worked pretty good the decided to try dd=if /dev/sda of=/dev/sdbNov 01 22:37
macabethe=thenNov 01 22:37
schestowitzRMS should try it then. If only the BIOS was as open as XO's... it's better powered.Nov 01 22:40
macabeI think dvd-cds' will go the route of floppies if flash type drives keep coming down in price.Nov 01 22:41
macabeFound a 1bg usb key for 1.59 USD at big lots.Nov 01 22:43
schestowitzThat's already happening. MacBook Air..?Nov 01 22:43
benJImanMacbook air hardly pioneered the no-optical-drive form factor.Nov 01 22:44
benJImanIn fact it's big enough to actually have one, unlike most of the ultraportables.Nov 01 22:44
MinceRthe eee pc is much better than that overpriced paperweightNov 01 22:44
schestowitzI used it at the airport.Nov 01 22:44
schestowitzFashion accessory. Expensive.Nov 01 22:45
benJImanThe eee isn't really in the same market niche.Nov 01 22:45
MinceRof course. it's actually functionalNov 01 22:45
benJImanThinkpad x-series is in that space.Nov 01 22:45
MinceRunlike crApple productsNov 01 22:45
schestowitzThe Eee PC would fit better in Steve Jobs' purse than his Macbook Air.Nov 01 22:46
MinceRunfortunately for him, it isn't faggy enough.Nov 01 22:46
schestowitzBut it won't play DRM-enabled iToons [sic]Nov 01 22:46
MinceRhm, maybe the pink version comes close enough.Nov 01 22:46
macabeHaven't tried Macbook; cracked open the eeepc to see if the hdd was 1.5" (reg 2.5 120gb sata)Nov 01 22:46
MinceRif he put a crApple sticker on it.Nov 01 22:46
MinceRthere are 1.5" hdds now?Nov 01 22:46
MinceRis that the same as the microdrive?Nov 01 22:47
macabeSeen them at Sam's club, but they were 10gb.Nov 01 22:47
macabeMade by SeagateNov 01 22:48
schestowitzSeagate is crumbling.Nov 01 22:49
schestowitzNot only are they considered Linux-hostile but they also suffered massive layoffs recently.Nov 01 22:49
schestowitzThen again, many hardware manufacturers will suffer similarly.Nov 01 22:49
macabeI upped RAM to 2gb. 19.95 for 2gb stick. PNYNov 01 22:50
MinceRone of my shortest-lived hdds was a seagateNov 01 22:50
macabeDo they manufacture their own or outsource?Nov 01 22:50
macabeHave a toshiba, hitachi, ibm, & seagate and they all look the same.Nov 01 22:52
MinceRi prefer WD.Nov 01 22:52
macaberight down to the metal ripples on top of the caseNov 01 22:53
MinceRibm and hitachi are the same because hitachi bought ibm's hdd department.Nov 01 22:53
MinceRthe ripples are for pressure equalization, aren't they?Nov 01 22:53
macabedon't know, but it looks like the ubuntu logo on holographic steroids.Nov 01 22:55
macabeWas on the alex jones blogsite; looks like he & jesper lund are getting hammered on standards, SC34 & JTC.Nov 01 23:02
schestowitzPerhaps more storage needs will move to the datacentre. Even films are being streamed these days.Nov 01 23:02
schestowitzmacabe: can you be specific/Nov 01 23:02
schestowitz?Nov 01 23:02
schestowitzI wrote about this the other day and hope you read it.Nov 01 23:03
schestowitzLong story short: they still greet and shower each other with kisses.Nov 01 23:03
schestowitzI confronted Jesper several times before. He's a shill.Nov 01 23:03
macabeHe (Alex) was indicating that JTC  needed to be overhauled.Nov 01 23:04
macabeJesper called a Microsoft sock puppet; he denied it, of course.Nov 01 23:05
schestowitzOh, in the comments?Nov 01 23:07
schestowitzI think that Andre commented on it when I was there.Nov 01 23:07
schestowitzI leave Alex alone for now. He intimidates with the ISO copyrights BS. To use an analogy, you drive a pregnant wife whose water broke to the hospital and a cop pulls you over for a speeding ticket.Nov 01 23:08
macabeYeah, most of them dealt with credibility, except for a HAL commenter; he's way off base.Nov 01 23:09
macabeTrying to upset zoobab, name calling, etc.Nov 01 23:10
schestowitzI know who he is.Nov 01 23:11
schestowitzHe also smeared IBM employeesNov 01 23:11
schestowitz 01 23:13
schestowitzSee this comment/update: (in case someone asks who hAl is, point his/her there)Nov 01 23:13
*GoblinRFD ( has joined #boycottnovellNov 01 23:14
macabeI've seen that nym before, sounds like a troll. All his comments are rubbish. Will add that to my favs. definitely need the resource.Nov 01 23:14
GoblinRFDwho me?Nov 01 23:14
GoblinRFDhello all.Nov 01 23:15
schestowitzHeyNov 01 23:16
schestowitzThis one is infuriating:,1...Nov 01 23:16
schestowitzThe figures have been seized upon by Microsoft and emphasised in the company's corporate blog on Microsoft TechNet. "Customers now have choice in market. VMware is no longer the dominant server virtualisation vendor (less than 50 percent [of the market])..."Nov 01 23:16
schestowitzI came across this as I write Do-no-evil items.Nov 01 23:16
schestowitzLong story short (wrote about this days ago), Microsoft is seeding lies through IDC and then blogs about it en masse.Nov 01 23:17
schestowitzEven Matt Asay fell for it and passed on the Big Lie. *sigh* *igh*Nov 01 23:17
schestowitzGoblinRFD: macabe was referring to a Microsoft AstroTurfer hAl just before you came...Nov 01 23:18
GoblinRFDah.Nov 01 23:18
schestowitzIt's also one of their biggest Wikipedia vandals.Nov 01 23:18
GoblinRFDah the Wikipedia....brings back memories....Nov 01 23:18
*trmanco has quit ("I just hit the close button :)")Nov 01 23:18
GoblinRFDJust testing out the new Intrepid Ibex, so I thought Id come here.Nov 01 23:19
GoblinRFDand in regards to hAI I believe he's posted on Microsoft Watch.Nov 01 23:20
macabeOnly way to get 23% of the visualization market in 2 days is if you click your heels and say, "there's no place like home"; else you lie.Nov 01 23:21
schestowitzGoblinRFD: comments? ProbablyNov 01 23:24
schestowitzmacabe: Microsoft does not lie. It lets its shills do it.Nov 01 23:25
schestowitzIDC defines something wrongly, measures its momentarily, throws some pretty graphs out and Microsoft then yells "well, well... look what we got here.."Nov 01 23:26
macabeThen Bill Gates is its top shill.Nov 01 23:26
schestowitzHow so?Nov 01 23:26
macabeWhen he said patents would harm innovation, etc.Nov 01 23:27
macabeand they weren't into patentingNov 01 23:27
macabethe latest being the h-1b visa fiascoNov 01 23:28
schestowitzHaha.Nov 01 23:30
schestowitzDid you read what I typed this afternoon?Nov 01 23:30
schestowitzIt's turning into a fraud.Nov 01 23:30
schestowitzIn < >Nov 01 23:30
macabeIf it involves politicians it'll always be fraud.Nov 01 23:30
schestowitzThe other day I struggled to find something.Nov 01 23:38
schestowitzSome years ago I read (in Wikipedia maybe) that BillG's grandpa was a state senatorNov 01 23:38
schestowitzI could find anything to corroborate though.Nov 01 23:38
macabeI read a piece a while back that stated to the effect that the wealthier you are the looser the ethics become. It was written before this century. I asked my dad to see if he could find the author.Nov 01 23:41
macabeWikipedia changes a lot.Nov 01 23:43
schestowitzwell, ethics are (re)defined by the wealthyNov 01 23:51
schestowitzWe're expected to accept (legalised) bribery as something called "lobbying" and treat is as the norm.Nov 01 23:51
macabeEthics redefined. That's the scary part.Nov 01 23:52
twitterBill Gates wealth explained 01 23:52
*moparx has quit (Remote closed the connection)Nov 01 23:53
schestowitzIn my view, lobbyist is one of the greatest scams and destructors of today's capitalist implementations, including that which you find in Brussels in the States. It enables corporations to run the governments that people elect. Can you trust shareholder to run a country?Nov 01 23:53
*moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovellNov 01 23:53
schestowitz*Lobbying   ; *Brussels *and* in the StatesNov 01 23:54
schestowitz"Maxwell founded Seattle's National City Bank in 1906. His son, James Willard Maxwell was also a banker and established a million-dollar trust fund for William (Bill) Henry Gates III."Nov 01 23:55
schestowitzA friend of mine once wrote that the legend of BillG making something out of nothing is indeed a crock. It's a case of a kid that was born with a silver spoon in his mouth to loot an industry, backed by help from his dad's buddies.Nov 01 23:55
macabeTherefore he has nothing in common with normal people.Nov 01 23:56
macabeThere is no empathy cause he's never known what is to want basic needs.Nov 01 23:57
MinceRhis story is making (almost)nothing out of somethingNov 01 23:58
MinceRsomething being the IT industry.Nov 01 23:59
schestowitzWell, it become a funnel.Nov 01 23:59
schestowitzThat's something too.Nov 01 23:59
schestowitzI saw this guy's site before: 01 23:59
schestowitzI can't remember the context.Nov 01 23:59

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