Comments

• Gentoo User (and proud of it)

  2008-11-19 21:58:08

  Roy, why is it that you post these things when the Dow is down dramatically (and thus every other issue out there is as well), but you don't post anything when the market rebounds 900+ points and so do MSFT and NOVL?
  
  Google was down 6% today. IBM is off 5%. The Dow is down 5% overall. Are you going to do a post about that as well, or are you too busy appending kindergarten flames to my posts just today?
  
  Note: comment arrived from a witch hunter that does not even use GNU/Linux.
  
  

• Rosa Bernardson

  2008-11-20 01:27:24

  Roy only every post things that suit him, they don't have to be factual or helpful, they just have to be words that support his view of the world. He has no commitment, and to be fair no reason, to be balanced.
  
  He only has one point to make, it might not be valid, but you can't give him a hard time for making it.... over and over, and over, regardless of how unsupported it is when you walk away from this site and dig into the real details.
  
  At the end of the day he pays for this site, it serves his purpose. Somehow it makes him happy to wallow around in somebody elses fictional failure.
  
  I own a tub of strawberry ice cream, I don't mix it with beef, it wouldn't taste the way I want it to if I did.

• Roy Schestowitz

  2008-11-20 01:37:20

  Make no attempts to harm one's reputation for omission of stuff that merely is beyond the scope of this Web site.
  
  The demise of Microsoft and Novell (among others) represents an opportunity for Free software, which is owned by no company.

• pcolon

  2008-11-20 02:40:28

  @Rosa: I have yet to read any unsupported post. Could you be more explicit and point one out?
  
  Digging into real details: where would that be at? IDG, Ziff-Davis, Yankee Group, Black Duck, Gartner?
  
  Please explain what you mean by fictional failure?
  
  Tanking stock has what to do with strawberry & beef?

• Rosa Bernardson

  2008-11-20 04:53:18

  You're kidding right pcolon? for supporting data look at the rest of the financial world, measure these "tanking stocks" against the rest of the market. You've been drinking too much of Roy's kool-aid.
  
  As for fictional failures... once you have looked at the two stocks against the overall market, take a look at the fundamentals of the two companies. Very little of Roy's rhetoric is supported by the data. Arguing that these companies are "liars" and that they're "making up their fundamentals" just doesn't stack up in the regulated world that we live in.
  
  As for Roy's comment that "no company owns free software".... well, there is news for you there as well I'm afraid. What you say might have been true a few years ago, but while you've been head down in your blog, big business (IBM, RedHat, etc.) have taken great strides to take ownership of the direction of OSS and FOSS.
  
  It would be naive to suggest that OSS or FOSS for that matter are in anyway "community led" anymore. Sadly.
  
  My original point still stands Roy, this is your site, you can post what you like - and you frequently do! :) What you write is entertaining reading, but it is not reliable or unbias reporting, and you don't pretend that it is.

• AlexH

  2008-11-20 11:08:24

  The point stands that looking at stock prices in isolation is basically meaningless. If you look at the splits, for much of the last year RedHat outperformed Novell. Over the last three months, it's been the other way around.
  
  If it were just Microsoft and Novell tanking, there would be a point. But let's get real. I won't be cheering the downturn of stocks, because companies are making huge layoffs - e.g., Sun losing 6000 workers and shares down 77% this year. Where do you think those cuts will come first?
  
  This is just mean schadenfreude and nothing else.

• Omar Hafez

  2008-11-20 11:09:31

  @ Rosa Bernardson
  
  Okay, that's funny.. :-) IBM, Red Hat, etc. Have gained full control over OSS and FOSS..????! Is that' what you're telling me?? :D
  
  If there's anybody that's completely naive and has no bit of clue on this website, that would be you madam.. :-)
  
  You keep accusing Roy and pcolon of saying unsupported things only to satisfy their own views, eh?
  
  Then tell me now, where did you get your information about IBM and Red Hat taking over the OSS and FOSS world?
  
  Just one last thing for your information, if Red Hat really took OSS and FOSS over, you wouldn't have been able to download the Red Hat distro. for free from their servers, and do whatever you want with it. :)

• stevetheFLY

  2008-11-20 11:24:36

  What gave you the absurd idea that you could do with the Red Hat distro whatever you want?
  
  "Intellectual Property Rights. The Programs and each of their components are owned by Red Hat and others and are protected under copyright law and under other laws as applicable." "This EULA does not permit User to distribute the Programs or their components using Red Hat's trademarks, regardless of whether the copy has been modified." http://www.redhat.com/licenses/rhel_rha_eula.html
  
  Interesting also, clause 5, "Export Control", and clause 6, "Third Party Programs"...
  
  Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from an incarnation of a known (eet), pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

• Roy Schestowitz

  2008-11-20 11:37:10

  Trademarks are not the same as Novell's patents and requirement that people become paying customers to access to source code.

• stevetheFLY

  2008-11-20 12:01:27

  Your're talking nonsense, and you know it.
  
  Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from an incarnation of a known (eet), pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

• stevetheFLY

  2008-11-20 12:02:47

  Here's the source: http://www.novell.com/linux/source/
  
  Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from an incarnation of a known (eet), pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

• Rosa Bernardson

  2008-11-20 12:10:13

  "Then tell me now, where did you get your information about IBM and Red Hat taking over the OSS and FOSS world?"
  
  I didn't limited it to those two companies, I just used them as examples.
  
  Anyway, it’s simple, you just take a look at the major contributions of code and IP that are made to the tiny number of OSS or FOSS projects that have any traction in today’s market place... you'll find a small number of multinational billion dollar companies behind every one of them. The days of the enthusiast are long gone, enthusiasts are relegated to running sites like this one - complaining about the fact that things are not what they used to be.
  
  OpenOffice, Sun. Linux, IBM. MySQL, Sun. Blah Blah etc. It doesn't matter which (significant or relevant) project you name, there will be an NMC right thee ready to help you and probably dominating the project.
  
  The same goes for the market moving standards.... how many Sun and IBM guys are on the ODF TC in OASIS for example? You're welcome to try and deny it, but you would be wrong to suggest anything other than them retaining a controlling voting bloc.

• Roy Schestowitz

  2008-11-20 12:30:34

  You're talking nonsense, and you know it.

  
  
  http://beranger.org/index.php?page=diary&2008/06/09/11/05/34-to-lxde-or-not-to-lxde-and-much-
  
  "Novell is making me sick too. I happen to run on a discussion about Why is there no Open Source SLES?, just to notice that indeed, you can’t have the SRPMS for SLES/SLED in free access!
  
  "The SRPMS from ftp://forgeftp.novell.com/sledsource/ are “frozen” (as of release), so pretty useless.
  
  "The page at you.novell.com/update/…/SUSE-SLES/10/rpm/src/ requires to a valid account (paying, that is).
  
  "And indeed, the page Source Code of the Patches for Maintained Products says that “You must have a registered SUSE product with upgrade protection in order to access the patch source code"

• stevetheFLY

  2008-11-20 12:31:19

  [hint to the readers: look out for posts with several RED lines of text under them; they are the one containg truth; which seems unwelcome on this website]
  
  Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from an incarnation of a known (eet), pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

• stevetheFLY

  2008-11-20 12:32:58

  Nonsense, Roy. The registration is free; same procedure as for example at IBM.
  
  'Frozen?' As you can see, all the latest updates ('service packs') are there. Don't try to belie what our eyes tell us.
  
  Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from an incarnation of a known (eet), pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

• stevetheFLY

  2008-11-20 12:34:45

  For example:
  
  http://download.novell.com/Download?buildid=xWohTS2zkSs
  
  Free registration; then get the source! https://secure-www.novell.com/selfreg/jsp/createAccount.jsp
  
  And don't tell lies anymore, OK? :)
  
  Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from an incarnation of a known (eet), pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

• stevetheFLY

  2008-11-20 12:35:54

  Where is my latest post??? I copy/pasted direct links to download and free registration.
  
  Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from an incarnation of a known (eet), pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

• Roy Schestowitz

  2008-11-20 12:39:03

  The spam filter is sensitive to multiple URLs. I had to pull it out of the queue.

• stevetheFLY

  2008-11-20 12:39:24

  As my comment seems to have been lost in Roy's spam-filter, here it is again:
  
  FREE registration at Novell: https://secure-www.novell.com/selfreg/jsp/createAccount.jsp
  
  Then get the sourcecode, for example for SLES 10 SP2: http://download.novell.com/Download?buildid=xWohTS2zkSs
  
  Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from an incarnation of a known (eet), pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

• stevetheFLY

  2008-11-20 12:39:39

  Whoops.
  
  Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from an incarnation of a known (eet), pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

• Roy Schestowitz

  2008-11-20 12:40:18

  That's OK. I've already restored it.

• pcolon

  2008-11-20 12:44:47

  @Rosa: Before 2007, your right in that my head was totally involved in and with my work, not blogs. I design, build & implement large FC storage solutions with IBM, SUN, Hitachi, etc; primarily in the health industry. That is where my interests and personal development is. Currently I'm involved in a large scale datacenter migration (Plano, Oakdale, White City to Virginia and NY) with another BN reader.
  
  Because of my involvement in the health industry, I take my work extremely seriously. If a system administrator is using my clustered grids for solitaire, nsnipes, it's on them, but I would be "hurting" if something I did caused someone's else tragedy.
  
  I value ethics, personal integrity, rock solid relationships with others higher than money. Unlike the dictionary, my grandpa said, "Integrity is the good that you do when no one is around to see you do it or take credit for it". If that's being naive, then so be it. At the end of the day, I stand alone. I have to reflect; What did I do today to contribute to the benefit of even one person?
  
  FOSS is a philosophical way of life-freedom of expression and choice without being vilified for it. The philosophy of FOSS, the Debian social contract, these are things I believe are worthwhile. I also believe they're worth fighting for. It's not a moving target of unsustainable vagaries. As a Vietnam vet, what did I fight for? To this day, I really don't know and that's a real waste.
  
  Freedom (FOSS) has spurred innovation and creativity at a lightning quick pace. MS is but a massive boat anchor to that innovation by trying to dictate how things are to be done and apologists come out to white wash MS's behaviour. Red Hat, Canonical, Debian, Mandriva keeps moving along supporting that innovation without trumpeting its support to FOSS.
  
  What "woke" me up was the treachery against the OLPC project from Intel & Microsoft. That led to the reading of the "Halloween" and other internal corporate documents which spells out the anti competitive nature of these corporations. (BTW, I didn't see where Red Hat announced a program for migrating SLES clients). So when I have a chance to hear, read & learn the finer details of FOSS at this site, it then supports what I keep advocating (beliefs) with strong and valid points.
  
  The short-term financial view of unethical corporate behavior practiced by the few monopolies (MS, Intel, etc.) will led not only to economic failure in general but will create a stigma against nationality, that is, the originating countries citizenship. We have seen this before; “The Ugly American, the Russian Fat Cats, the French Elite, the European Aristocrats” and so on.
  
  MS is taking a contrary road to the “new ecosystem”. Instead of working with GNU/Linux it it tries to sabotage it. Its transparent veiled of interoperability will not work no matter how much whore mongering it perpetuates through it payoffs.
  
  The so-called philanthropic Gates Foundation is nothing but a public relations backup to the Redmond. Since when does a charity buy media outlets, invest in oil revenues, contributes unneeded funds to PACs, local and foreign lobbying efforts. Mother Theresa was a true philanthropist; Gates wouldn’t even qualify to be a pimple on her ass.
  
  Intel’s short-sightedness in helping to sabotage OLPC will come back to bite it. AMD, VIA, ARM, among others, will be flourishing (don’t forget “Lonsoon GodSon”. It doesn’t need to run MS software and GNU/Linux can port to it in a flash).
  
  People are not naturally dumb. Ignorance is a short term state that can be corrected through education with freedom of accessible information. In short, FOSS steadily will move forward and will be the norm. The authors of this site are simply showing you, if you do not know, something that may be of interest, thereby, making FOSS even more useful. Please, instead of flaming the messenger, help encourage people to learn what FOSS is capable of. After all FOSS wouldn’t be where it is if there was no encouragement.

• stevetheFLY

  2008-11-20 13:21:42

  What got philosophy to do with it? You can keep your philosophy, we're talking facts here.
  
  Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from an incarnation of a known (eet), pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

• Roy Schestowitz

  2008-11-20 13:39:23

  Diversion tactics. I see..

• stevetheFLY

  2008-11-20 13:47:03

  Yes, but we should forgive pcolon his long and unrelated post; I think he is just passionate about FOSS and didn't mean to distract from the subject.
  
  Back on topic, how about those allegedly 'non-freely-available' sources for SLED/SLES? Will we hear you apologize now, for passing on untrue information without checking facts for yourself?
  
  Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from an incarnation of a known (eet), pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

• pcolon

  2008-11-20 13:52:54

  You seem to have an obsession with apologies. Therefore, let me make it simple: I'm sorry I posted a long unrelated passionate FOSS post.
  
  Now go away.

• stevetheFLY

  2008-11-20 13:54:07

  I was talking to Roy.
  
  Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from an incarnation of a known (eet), pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

• Roy Schestowitz

  2008-11-20 14:15:10

  One of the links is to ISOs (binaries) and another requires that I register, which I haven't. Feel free to argue with Beranger (Radu) over this. You are, after all, a regular reader of his, right "eet"?

• stevetheFLY

  2008-11-20 14:49:03

  tsk, tsk, tsk; again, you didn't check:
  
  The ISOs contain sources as well, read: "For SUSE Linux Enterprise Server 9 (including Service Packs), the sources are bundled with the binaries in each product build. For SUSE Linux Enterprise Server 10 GA (General Availability–the initial version) and SUSE Linux Enterprise Server 10 Service Pack 2, the sources are also bundled with the binaries in each product build and are only available on the DVD ISOs, not the CD ISOs. For SUSE Linux Enterprise Server 10 Service Pack 1, the sources are available separately from the binaries." http://www.novell.com/linux/source/
  
  This was the very first link I posted in this discussion, and I see you were again to lazy to READ.
  
  Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from an incarnation of a known (eet), pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

• Roy Schestowitz

  2008-11-20 14:51:45

  I did read it, but missed it. Thanks.

• stevetheFLY

  2008-11-20 14:52:42

  Oh yeah; and because you never read unless one shoves it into your eyes, again: registration is FREE, not 'for paying customers only' or whatever this berange-guy claims; registering before being able to access sources is unfortunately custom with big companies, like IBM also, because they want to keep track of who does what with their stuff.
  
  Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from an incarnation of a known (eet), pseudonymous, forever-nymshifting, abusive Internet troll that posts from open proxies and relays around the world.

• Omar Hafez

  2008-11-20 16:10:12

  @ stevetheFLY, Rosa Bernadson, Gentoo user
  
  Just in case if you guys forgot, let me remind you that Linux isn't Red Hat, nor Sun, nor Novell, nor Canonical, nor Microsoft...
  
  Linux, is the kernel waiting for any living creature in the universe to download it, tweak it, build upon it, improve it, and distribute it....
  
  So, building a new Linux distribution is just a matter of having the experience to do that. There's no company in world that can stand in you way.
  
  Unlike Windows, which is owned by Microsoft, and can never be found elsewhere.

• Omar Hafez

  2008-11-20 16:13:55

  @ stevetheFLY, Rosa Bernadson, Gentoo user
  
  Oh and where can you find that kernel? at www.kernel.org.
  
  Just in case if you don' t know.

• Béranger

  2008-11-20 17:41:58

  eet is, as usual, an idiot! The only SLED/SLES sources you can get in free access are the "frozen" ones, i.e SLES 10, SLES 10 SP1, SLES 10 SP2, etc. which are useless! One would also need the sources for each and every ad-interim package, otherwise you can't update the system until SP3 is released, SP4 is released, etc.

• G. Michaels

  2008-11-20 17:43:03

  Roy, as you very well know but choose to conveniently ignore (as does your friend), Novell will not support a modified version of SLES unless you pay them. This has been the same policy RedHat has had since they started selling RHEL. If you and your friends are so insulted by this, then maybe a separate distro is in order here, in the CentOS tradition.
  
  I'm sure when that happens though, you'll write another rambling piece about how evil Novell is for demanding their trademarks not be used with said distro, and conveniently ignore RH did the same to CentOS, just like Mozilla did with Debian (so now we have the stupidity called IceWeasel).
  
  Note: writer of this comment adds absolutely nothing but stalking and personal attacks against readers, as documented here.

• G. Michaels

  2008-11-20 18:07:01

  Roy, by the way, since I am a 'reader' as well, and Beranger (a reader) just called 'eet' an idiot, and I remember twitter calling your readers 'idiots' and 'liars' and other choice things, and your policy seems to be to harass 'readers' who insult other 'readers', could you please also append a little red warning to all of Beranger's and twitter's posts, please? And me as well, I guess, since I'm guilty of the same things. Can you please append little red warnings to anyone who 'attacks' anyone here? That would be nice, because it would mean that you're following your policies uniformly.
  
  Also, proof of Gentoo User's 'smears' and 'trolling' would be appreciated at this point, thanks!
  
  Note: writer of this comment adds absolutely nothing but stalking and personal attacks against readers, as documented here.

• Roy Schestowitz

  2008-11-20 19:57:34

  You just came here along with "Gentoo user" to troll this Web site and harass. You know very well what you and him have posted here. You can find it. You can do your homework.