IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: November 20th, 2008 - Part 1

Dr. Roy Schestowitz

2008-11-21 11:30:03 UTC
Modified: 2008-11-21 11:30:03 UTC

schestowitz	Will be ready at the beginning of next year	Nov 20 00:00
schestowitz	Whoops.	Nov 20 00:00
PetoKraus	schestowitz: yes, i know. Opera too, i think	Nov 20 00:00
schestowitz	Just got mail from RMS. ;-) Let me see...	Nov 20 00:00
PetoKraus	:D	Nov 20 00:00
schestowitz	Cool!	Nov 20 00:00
schestowitz	The FSF/GNU will look at ways of helping BN's campaign	Nov 20 00:01
schestowitz	As in spreading the message.	Nov 20 00:01
PetoKraus	:)	Nov 20 00:03
PetoKraus	now, who's the fanny!	Nov 20 00:03
schestowitz	Not the British slang, hopefulyl.	Nov 20 00:04
PetoKraus	:) yes, the brittish slang	Nov 20 00:05
PetoKraus	that was intended for ppl like BB etc	Nov 20 00:06
schestowitz	Are you turning your site in smut?	Nov 20 00:06
PetoKraus	smut?	Nov 20 00:06
schestowitz	*to	Nov 20 00:06
PetoKraus	you mean the largest network of porn sites?	Nov 20 00:06
PetoKraus	"http://smut.com/"	Nov 20 00:06
schestowitz	Didn't know about it. It's a word thoug.	Nov 20 00:07
schestowitz	*though. It just seemed off topic, that's all.	Nov 20 00:07
schestowitz	BB has a new article.	Nov 20 00:07
schestowitz	About FOSS and BiZniZ	Nov 20 00:07
PetoKraus	schestowitz: my page was never about software	Nov 20 00:08
PetoKraus	it was always just tidbits from my life...	Nov 20 00:08
schestowitz	He often writes about how we should all get more 'professional'... as in mixed source, patents, OOXML, whatever... I don't understand him	Nov 20 00:08
schestowitz	.he's clearly with Free software and all, but he misses the point of the need for change	Nov 20 00:08
PetoKraus	mainly pictures. Though, since I don't have time to go around and shoot people with camera, and shoot stuff with camera...	Nov 20 00:08
PetoKraus	he's clearly open source.	Nov 20 00:08
schestowitz	He wants FOSS people to assimilate and adapt to the very same thing they oppose, because it's _wrong_	Nov 20 00:09
PetoKraus	we may argue about his free software allegiance	Nov 20 00:09
schestowitz	Maybe he's confused.	Nov 20 00:09
schestowitz	But he's not a bad person.	Nov 20 00:09
PetoKraus	i dunno. mixed feelings, mostly	Nov 20 00:10
schestowitz	Me and him are alike in many ways, but he shies away from exposing corruption.	Nov 20 00:10
schestowitz	That's something we /must/ have	Nov 20 00:10
PetoKraus	i don't know him that much either.	Nov 20 00:10
PetoKraus	to judge, i mean	Nov 20 00:10
schestowitz	Otherwise it won't be exposed. Microsoft talks about it itself... letting the opposition find the misconduct.	Nov 20 00:10
PetoKraus	right. nice chat; I am gonna take a nap. long day tomorrow.	Nov 20 00:19
schestowitz	Nap? At half past midnight?	Nov 20 00:20
PetoKraus	:D yes. till like 8:30 or so	Nov 20 00:21
schestowitz	So it's not a nap then. Gosh. 8 hours. I'm used to less than 6	Nov 20 00:23
PetoKraus	nah, i work differently	Nov 20 00:23
PetoKraus	i "sleep" once a year	Nov 20 00:24
schestowitz	Hibernation then. Winter time.	Nov 20 00:24
PetoKraus	almost	Nov 20 00:24
schestowitz	Be careful.	Nov 20 00:24
PetoKraus	it's usually after three days of being awaken	Nov 20 00:24
jose	who is this person being talked about?	Nov 20 00:24
PetoKraus	playing deus ex	Nov 20 00:24
schestowitz	Check your BIOS beforehand.	Nov 20 00:24
schestowitz	You might now wake up if it's Foxconn.	Nov 20 00:24
schestowitz	*n ot	Nov 20 00:25
PetoKraus	i need to stop being lazy twat though	Nov 20 00:25
PetoKraus	and force myself to get outta my bed at about 8.00	Nov 20 00:25
PetoKraus	though it's hard cause we are not using our central heating yet	Nov 20 00:25
PetoKraus	i mean, it's fkn 10C, i use to sleep outside in sleeping bag in the summer at about the same temperature	Nov 20 00:26
PetoKraus	schestowitz: how cold it's "down there"?	Nov 20 00:26
schestowitz	Not enough.	Nov 20 00:27
schestowitz	If it were colder, I'd open a window	Nov 20 00:27
PetoKraus	nice to see someone as stingy as me ;)	Nov 20 00:27
PetoKraus	our flat is like heat black hole, we are sucking the heat from other flats around us	Nov 20 00:28
schestowitz	Not good for metabolism. ;-)	Nov 20 00:29
PetoKraus	why?	Nov 20 00:29
schestowitz	You'll get puffed up... like Linus	Nov 20 00:29
PetoKraus	my standard body temperature is 37.0C	Nov 20 00:29
schestowitz	Let me find something.	Nov 20 00:29
PetoKraus	nah, i burn stuff	Nov 20 00:29
PetoKraus	you know what's scoobie snack?	Nov 20 00:29
schestowitz	http://torvalds-family.blogspot...	Nov 20 00:29
PetoKraus	i can eat three a day and still be hungry	Nov 20 00:29
schestowitz	snacks aren't food. I used to work at the office more. My diet was bad.	Nov 20 00:30
schestowitz	Actually, RMS used to /LIVE/ in his office.	Nov 20 00:30
PetoKraus	alright, you don't know what's scoobie snack	Nov 20 00:30
schestowitz	LOL I thought about that...	Nov 20 00:30
schestowitz	The song...	Nov 20 00:31
PetoKraus	"In Glasgow's late night eateries the term Scooby Snack denotes a roll containing: Lorne sausage, bacon, a fried egg, a Tattie Scone, a beef burger and cheese."	Nov 20 00:31
schestowitz	Ah..	Nov 20 00:31
PetoKraus	and craploads of brown sauce	Nov 20 00:31
PetoKraus	all fried.	Nov 20 00:31
schestowitz	Now the song makes more sense.	Nov 20 00:31
schestowitz	Isn't obesity bad over there in Edinburgh?	Nov 20 00:32
PetoKraus	dunno, i'm in glasgow :P	Nov 20 00:32
schestowitz	I think I saw the states once.	Nov 20 00:32
PetoKraus	anyway, it's not really bad. There are nice girls here.... though sometimes you have to run away when you hear "ze fonny skotish eksent, meyt-"	Nov 20 00:33
schestowitz	People in the States judge based on state how incline people are to follow the surroundings and gain weight.	Nov 20 00:33
schestowitz	I like Scottish accent.	Nov 20 00:33
PetoKraus	i like it too	Nov 20 00:34
PetoKraus	but not on that really attractive girl over there.	Nov 20 00:34
PetoKraus	it's fun for a guy	Nov 20 00:35
PetoKraus	it's terrible for a female :P	Nov 20 00:35
PetoKraus	the second i hear "that's booolocks maaan" i am like "ewww".	Nov 20 00:35
schestowitz	Well, it depends.	Nov 20 00:36
schestowitz	Ask them not to talk. :-)	Nov 20 00:36
PetoKraus	:)	Nov 20 00:37
PetoKraus	i know how this will end	Nov 20 00:37
PetoKraus	some girl from slovakia will come here	Nov 20 00:37
PetoKraus	i'll fall in love	Nov 20 00:37
PetoKraus	... that's how it always ends... you have to go trough half the world to marry the girl next door.	Nov 20 00:38
schestowitz	Talk about picky.. going by accents now?	Nov 20 00:38
PetoKraus	:P not really	Nov 20 00:38
PetoKraus	the main thing is the hair colour i guess	Nov 20 00:38
schestowitz	There's bleach.	Nov 20 00:39
PetoKraus	not for me	Nov 20 00:39
PetoKraus	tar?	Nov 20 00:39
schestowitz	Hehe. Not tar.	Nov 20 00:41
PetoKraus	;) nice banter. good night.	Nov 20 00:42
*PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))		Nov 20 00:59
twitter	Looky, looky, someone's got a blacklist http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/...	Nov 20 01:39
twitter	What's going on?	Nov 20 01:39
schestowitz	"Every police force in the UK was tonight scouring the leaked British National party membership list for names of serving officers, after the Merseyside force confirmed it was investigating one officer's links to the far-right party."	Nov 20 01:39
schestowitz	I can only imagine that extremism will rise as the markets decline.	Nov 20 01:40
twitter	I've got a list of people I'd like fired. Can I post it on the internet and have the police arrest everyone?	Nov 20 01:40
schestowitz	Freedom, as ironic as it may sound, can be considered an extremism too (albeit an altruistic type)	Nov 20 01:41
twitter	Sounds like extreme to me.	Nov 20 01:41
schestowitz	What is?	Nov 20 01:41
schestowitz	See http://thebeezspeaks.blogspot.com/20...	Nov 20 01:42
twitter	Arresting people for thoughtcrime.	Nov 20 01:42
schestowitz	maybe they watched Minority R3p0rt for INSPIR~1	Nov 20 01:43
twitter	These people can run for office but not be on the police force?	Nov 20 01:43
twitter	13,000 names !	Nov 20 01:44
twitter	My name is common, so I'm always stopped by the TSA. I wonder if I'm also a member of this goofey BNP too.	Nov 20 01:45
twitter	I'm probably a Communist as well.	Nov 20 01:45
schestowitz	twitter is a common name	Nov 20 01:46
schestowitz	it's also a site name	Nov 20 01:46
twitter	at least one doctor, the odd man out.	Nov 20 01:46
twitter	See?	Nov 20 01:46
schestowitz	They can't trust people with pseudonyms. It arouses suspicion.	Nov 20 01:47
schestowitz	This is funny:	Nov 20 01:47
schestowitz	http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...	Nov 20 01:47
twitter	John Page was on the list. How many John Pages are there now worried for their job?	Nov 20 01:47
schestowitz	Maybe they have more details. The name needn't be primary key in the DB	Nov 20 01:49
twitter	I'm just sick of lists.	Nov 20 01:49
schestowitz	Soon they'll 'label' us with national ID... kind of like cows.	Nov 20 01:50
schestowitz	If you want to 'piss off' surveillance (assuming you have any), set up VPN overseas and always use the cash machine for spendings. Big and rare withdrawals are best.	Nov 20 01:51
twitter	Once you make these lists, they are abused.	Nov 20 01:51
schestowitz	http://www.dailymail.co.uk/n...	Nov 20 01:51
twitter	It's easy to start out with nasties like BNP, which sounds like some kind of neo nazi group, but they you end up with lists of "terrorists" opposed to the death penalty.	Nov 20 01:52
twitter	It's a waste of public money to make lists of people who have not committed any crime.	Nov 20 01:52
twitter	Soon the lists are used to harass political opposition of any kind. Then the rulers can be as extreme as their loony imaginations will allow.	Nov 20 01:54
twitter	I saw the robot guy and the trash story.	Nov 20 01:55
schestowitz	People of Iceland	Nov 20 01:57
schestowitz	They used laws passed to handle terrorist to quiet down and send opposition to 'exile'	Nov 20 01:57
schestowitz	I saw another example earlier today. I can't recall what it was.	Nov 20 01:58
twitter	got link?	Nov 20 01:58
schestowitz	No, I can't remember.	Nov 20 01:58
schestowitz	Good feed on the topic of national harvesting: http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/...	Nov 20 01:59
twitter	Here's an interesting story about Iceland. http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/11/17/...	Nov 20 01:59
twitter	"Big fish eat the little fish, little fish got to be fast. That's the law of the fish, baby. You got to move your ass" - The Radiators.	Nov 20 02:00
schestowitz	Yes, I know ( Britain, like Iceland, in big trouble )	Nov 20 02:00
twitter	UK ate Iceland. Who will eat the UK?	Nov 20 02:00
schestowitz	How empires have fallen.	Nov 20 02:01
schestowitz	China?	Nov 20 02:01
schestowitz	It's growing like mad. I fear not. :-)	Nov 20 02:01
twitter	Could be. They were about to eat GM!	Nov 20 02:01
schestowitz	I had a Chinese g/f. They are nice people.	Nov 20 02:01
twitter	Everyone is nice. That's why bad government is always a crime.	Nov 20 02:02
schestowitz	Yes.	Nov 20 02:02
schestowitz	Evil comes from infinite greed	Nov 20 02:02
schestowitz	Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.	Nov 20 02:02
twitter	Oh my. 3x GDP, 7x GDP. There's not much difference in practice.	Nov 20 02:03
schestowitz	"Put simply, Britain has an air of Iceland about it. The tiny island state was brought down when foreigners lost trust in the government's ability to bail out a banking system with massive foreign currency debt at a time when the country was also running a huge trade deficit. After foreigners refused to finance its banks, they went bust and the currency sank like a lead balloon."	Nov 20 02:05
schestowitz	It's a good thing all my money (almost) is in USD	Nov 20 02:05
twitter	There will still be no fish for you http://www.fishupdate.com/news/fullstory.php/aid/1...	Nov 20 02:11
schestowitz	"He told Fishupdate in a statement: 'We have been going through difficulties in Iceland because of the freezing order on all transfers of all payments the British government issued on October 8. Icelanders are shocked, sad and angry that the British Government used their Terrorist Act to force this order."	Nov 20 02:15
schestowitz	The press it still too mquiet on this.	Nov 20 02:15
schestowitz	Either they (press) understate the threat or people overstate it. Maybe the truth is somewhere in between but govts' don't want to incite panic.	Nov 20 02:16
schestowitz	That too is distateful because it they lead people to thinking that next year will be better, then people will run out of money around Xmas (shopping) and then be jammed.	Nov 20 02:16
twitter	Iceland has a real currency crisis. They can't buy anything with it.	Nov 20 02:19
twitter	Here's a little flame from Linux that I must have slept through or ignored http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/community_...	Nov 20 02:20
schestowitz	I saw that and posted it this morning or yesterday.	Nov 20 02:21
schestowitz	[H]omer posted a good reply to it.	Nov 20 02:21
schestowitz	I'll post it here because it's good.	Nov 20 02:21
schestowitz	================================= =============================	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	> Unjustifiable Criticism of Richard Stallman by Linus Torvalds	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	[quote]	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	The reason has always been that I don't like single-issue people, nor do	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	I think that people who turn the world into black and white are very	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	nice or ultimately very useful.	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	[quote]	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	http://torvalds-family.blogspot...	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	I assume he's advocating apathy, rather than outright support for	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	gangsters like Microsoft. The problem, or rather one of many problems,	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	with Torvalds analysis, is it ignores the possibility that sometimes an	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	issue is "black and white". If Torvalds stopped preening in the mirror	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	long enough to take a look around, he'd see the full scale of the threat	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	Microsoft poses, not just against Linux, but in a much wider context	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	too. The fact that Torvalds is disinterested in Microsoft's unethical	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	behaviour, particularly when it's directed towards the community of	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	which he is supposedly a central part, should not mean that others	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	aren't justified in being outraged about such behaviour.	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	For example, I wonder if Torvalds finds any ambiguity in Microsoft's	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	bribery of Nigerian education suppliers, to backtrack on a finalised	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	agreement to provide Mandriva to Nigerian schools (later overturned due	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	to public exposure and the subsequent backlash)?	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	Is there anything less than crystal-clear about Microsoft attempting to	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	bribe Swedish ISO delegates to vote for OOXML at the BRM for DIS29500?	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	What is not "black and white" about Ballmer making unfounded allegations	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	of "undisclosed balance sheet liabilities", and claiming that "Linux is	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	a cancer"?	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	Presumably Torvald's reaction to this thuggish behaviour is "Microsoft	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	ain't so bad".	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	Is he blind; delusional or just as maliciously motivated as the Redmond	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	gangsters who he thinks it's wrong to criticise?	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	I don't know about our Finnish friend, but if someone attacks me (or the	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	community I'm a part of), I tend to fight back, rather than bend over	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	and grab my ankles whilst condemning those who stand up for what's r	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	and grab my ankles whilst condemning those who stand up for what's right.	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	Torvalds is rapidly shaping up to be the next JÃÂ¶rg Schilling, or a	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	slightly less productive version of him, anyway. Maybe it's time the	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	Free Software community redirected its efforts towards the Hurd, then	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	Torvalds can go play in the corner with "his" kernel, while the rest of	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	us do what's in the best interest of the whole community - protecting	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	that community and its software from unambiguously vicious predators	Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz	like Microsoft.	Nov 20 02:22
twitter	Yeah, I need to install hurd on at least one machine.	Nov 20 02:23
twitter	It would be better still to ignore pronouncements like that from Linux. It's clear he's had his head in the sand, probably from all the good work he's been doing.	Nov 20 02:25
twitter	Busy people don't have time to figure a lot of things out.	Nov 20 02:26
schestowitz	He'll hopefully change his mind.	Nov 20 02:27
schestowitz	He doesn't understand.	Nov 20 02:27
schestowitz	It took RMS a while to give up on Novell too.	Nov 20 02:27
schestowitz	I corresponded with him quite a bit recently and the coin dropped when the folks from India took action.	Nov 20 02:27
twitter	Here's something nice, http://news.softpedia.com/news/Softped...	Nov 20 02:28
twitter	They have been getting more and more commercial, however. I wish they made getting their latest distro easier.	Nov 20 02:30
schestowitz	[H]omer produced a good demo.	Nov 20 02:31
schestowitz	Let me find it...	Nov 20 02:31
schestowitz	Down at the bottom here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/... (also as Ogg)	Nov 20 02:31
twitter	I played with their CD a couple of years ago. It did not upgrade well.	Nov 20 02:32
twitter	It's nifty on CD, not so great after install and broken when updating.	Nov 20 02:33
twitter	I'm hoping E17 gets pagers and other goodness like E16.	Nov 20 02:33
twitter	Given a stable job, that would be something fun for me to work on.	Nov 20 02:34
twitter	Much more interesting than Hurd.	Nov 20 02:34
twitter	Sam produces and ouch, " In effect, this itself shows a weakness in Novell's sales strategy - the company cannot, on its own, identify likely GNU/Linux users. It cannot convince people to switch. Red Hat has to do the hard work and then Novell tries to sneak its way in."	Nov 20 02:39
twitter	http://www.itwire.com/content/view/21690/1090/	Nov 20 02:39
schestowitz	Novell is a Microsoft subsidiary	Nov 20 02:45
schestowitz	People must stop thinking of Novell as 'on our side'	Nov 20 02:46
schestowitz	Novell's revenue comes from Microsoft, not from selling GNU/Linux services.	Nov 20 02:46
schestowitz	Microsoft feeds its 'Novell' Division, that's just how it works.	Nov 20 02:46
schestowitz	'Novell' Division is a competitor to GNU/Linux (Red Hat, Ubuntu, etc.)	Nov 20 02:46
jose	i saw a vmware commercial about running linux on top and this came to mind (again)	Nov 20 02:57
schestowitz	/Which/ Linux?	Nov 20 02:57
schestowitz	Microsoft's? :-)	Nov 20 02:58
jose	sorry...	Nov 20 02:58
jose	running windows on top of linux	Nov 20 02:58
schestowitz	That's how it's done, but Microsoft wants to reverse this	Nov 20 02:58
jose	..what came to mind.	Nov 20 02:58
schestowitz	And it only runs SUSE properly under Windows	Nov 20 02:58
schestowitz	Hype-Viper	Nov 20 02:58
jose	was that vmware would transfer tech to microsoft	Nov 20 02:58
jose	leaving an empty shell company behind with bitrotting	Nov 20 02:59
schestowitz	Huh?	Nov 20 02:59
jose	it's just something to watch for..	Nov 20 02:59
jose	..why	Nov 20 02:59
schestowitz	Well, VMware is seemingly hijacked by MS	Nov 20 02:59
schestowitz	Like yahoo	Nov 20 02:59
jose	say this	Nov 20 02:59
schestowitz	VMware is now run by Microsoft... the CEO	Nov 20 02:59
jose	because of the ceo and pressures that might lead them to strike deals with ms	Nov 20 02:59
jose	vmware stock was very high not long ago	Nov 20 02:59
schestowitz	Yes, they already did that	Nov 20 03:00
schestowitz	.I wrote about this in BN	Nov 20 03:00
jose	this means that shares were probably dumped on the public	Nov 20 03:00
schestowitz	Tucci and Maritz tossed out the heart of VMware	Nov 20 03:00
schestowitz	It's like a father sacrificing his virgin kid for some crook he knocks	Nov 20 03:00
jose	i read about engineers/execs getting tossed out	Nov 20 03:01
schestowitz	Check the BN archives. It makes me angry to see what MS does to VMware	Nov 20 03:01
jose	is that what you mean or do you mean code?	Nov 20 03:01
schestowitz	which engineers?	Nov 20 03:01
jose	execs?	Nov 20 03:01
schestowitz	I know the technical chief or something is out too.	Nov 20 03:01
jose	yeah	Nov 20 03:01
schestowitz	Founders ar both out.	Nov 20 03:01
jose	is that what you meant by the virgin child	Nov 20 03:01
jose	ok	Nov 20 03:01
schestowitz	Greene and Mendelbaum/son (IIRC)	Nov 20 03:01
schestowitz	That would be Tucco	Nov 20 03:02
jose	well, they went public and the "public" may have swallowed the stock	Nov 20 03:02
schestowitz	Tucci	Nov 20 03:02
schestowitz	EMC owns most of VMware	Nov 20 03:02
schestowitz	EMC is also Microsoft's partner of the year 2008	Nov 20 03:02
jose	the incentive to keep vmware alive and competitive would disappear..	Nov 20 03:02
schestowitz	Put 2 and 2 together.	Nov 20 03:02
jose	especially with tough competition from linux and perhaps a sweet deal from ms	Nov 20 03:02
schestowitz	Then they had Maritz join EMC	Nov 20 03:02
jose	sweet to whoever got in	Nov 20 03:02
schestowitz	Two months or so later they give VMware's CEO the boot	Nov 20 03:02
jose	and the ceo, yes	Nov 20 03:03
schestowitz	They did this in a nasty way, NYT told the story	Nov 20 03:03
schestowitz	Then they put Microsoft's soul in charge	Nov 20 03:03
schestowitz	Then... VMware signed deals with MS	Nov 20 03:03
jose	ok, it went through emc.. i had forgotten	Nov 20 03:03
schestowitz	It was fresher in my mind when I wrote about it (with many refs	Nov 20 03:03
jose	still though the stock soared	Nov 20 03:04
schestowitz	Soared? When?	Nov 20 03:04
schestowitz	After IPO.	Nov 20 03:04
jose	saw an ad.. i know it's a bit "off topic" for the season	Nov 20 03:04
jose	soared may not be the right word but their p/e was very high and you know what is coming	Nov 20 03:05
jose	i don't know what is coming for everyone but i would think vmw still has lots of room downward	Nov 20 03:06
jose	ok, well was a though. thanks for the quick refresh.. also, the ad was for running a windows partition which is not a bad thing...	Nov 20 03:07
jose	you should be more tired than me at this time.. but maybe not	Nov 20 03:07
jose	just checked.. vmw was hitting over 110 for a while a year ago.. now at less than a fifth of that	Nov 20 03:09
schestowitz	Yes, KVM harms them too.	Nov 20 03:09
schestowitz	The thing about software is that bundling costs nothing.	Nov 20 03:09
schestowitz	VMware should have based its business model on services, just like Free software.	Nov 20 03:10
jose	with what you posted, i couldn't help but think that they would empty out the company in some way .. in ms' direction apparently	Nov 20 03:10
schestowitz	Separability of components remains for some regulators to decide on.	Nov 20 03:10
schestowitz	Another issue is that VMW was going to sue Microsoft (2006/7 article), but with Maritz in charge, forget about it.	Nov 20 03:10
jose	that lawsuit may have been a trading chip	Nov 20 03:11
schestowitz	That '"scum" (if I may respond angrily) wanted to "cut the air supply" of Netscape and stood up there for antitrust	Nov 20 03:11
schestowitz	In my eyes, Maritz stays a criminal. It's called white-collar crime.	Nov 20 03:11
schestowitz	And I don't care about journos talking about "how nice he is".	Nov 20 03:11
jose	i prefer not to take too hard a stance on any single item..	Nov 20 03:12
schestowitz	What do you mean?	Nov 20 03:12
jose	i don't like doing business like that but it is acceptable to many	Nov 20 03:12
schestowitz	It shouldn't be.	Nov 20 03:12
schestowitz	There needs to be a law against it.	Nov 20 03:13
schestowitz	AND enforcement too	Nov 20 03:13
jose	"cut off air supply" can mean many things .."healthy competition"	Nov 20 03:13
jose	the totality is at least a bit sickening	Nov 20 03:13
schestowitz	Watch Intel bribing everyone in the world to "cut off air supply" of AMD (i.e. to end competition)	Nov 20 03:13
jose	and the threat is real.. competition or no	Nov 20 03:13
schestowitz	That's just communism	Nov 20 03:13
schestowitz	Intel is h/w communism	Nov 20 03:13
schestowitz	That's not even capitalistic.	Nov 20 03:13
jose	cut off air supply is something people might associate with a competitive game	Nov 20 03:14
schestowitz	"An Intel on every desk".	Nov 20 03:14
schestowitz	"At the price Intel names"	Nov 20 03:14
schestowitz	Collusions with Microsoft required.	Nov 20 03:14
schestowitz	To fix the prices.	Nov 20 03:14
jose	it's when you add everything up and see reall people affected that it becomes something more serious	Nov 20 03:14
jose	i say this because not everyone will be shocked by ms actions especially taken in isolation for with context removed	Nov 20 03:15
jose	i like how you hit quotes and things over and over.. i think that is helpful	Nov 20 03:16
schestowitz	For new reader it might be.	Nov 20 03:16
jose	maybe it is easy for me to try and maintain balance here because you are so passionate.	Nov 20 03:16
schestowitz	The "air supply" thing need to be brought to alignment with the "Evangelism is WAR" leak	Nov 20 03:16
jose	air supply will have an effect on competitors at a certain level	Nov 20 03:17
jose	but not on partners or customers as much	Nov 20 03:17
jose	in fact the evangelism "leak" had a number of things that though upset me, i can see actually ms thinking it might help them.. at least in some circles.. at least with the context removed	Nov 20 03:18
jose	people need to see how they are hurt in order to see some of this sometimes.. it's not always clear	Nov 20 03:18
jose	i was impressed and surprised by the responses on groklaw on the patent topic	Nov 20 03:20
jose	i posted my share alright but there were some very good reads.. some very clear and making effective points	Nov 20 03:21
jose	i am on the optimistic side that major ground was won in the patent war	Nov 20 03:21
jose	but we have to keep pushing. things are still too much in the air.. americans need to make sure congress doesn't try to muck things up.. rather than go further to safeguard software	Nov 20 03:22
jose	i know.. i guess this was a us thing mostly	Nov 20 03:22
jose	U.S. of A	Nov 20 03:22
schestowitz	China is the next superpower	Nov 20 03:23
*schestowitz was distracted writing this: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/19/... (multi-tasking)		Nov 20 03:23
jose	china has an internal mess in some quarters from what i hear	Nov 20 03:23
schestowitz	Got URLs?	Nov 20 03:24
jose	environmental.. food..	Nov 20 03:29
jose	prob other issues as well that i don't recall	Nov 20 03:29
jose	back to the vmware for a sec	Nov 20 03:29
jose	that would run under linux (i forgot).	Nov 20 03:29
jose	using vmware instead of kvm or something else ... could help microsoft if they have close ties	Nov 20 03:30
jose	s/could/would	Nov 20 03:30
schestowitz	Yes	Nov 20 03:37
schestowitz	Novell can be used here too	Nov 20 03:37
schestowitz	Novell has arrangements with VMware since 2 months or so ago.. nothing major.	Nov 20 03:38
jose	vmware can serve as the closed source trojan	Nov 20 03:40
jose	well.. another closed source trojan	Nov 20 03:40
jose	special hooks for paying customers	Nov 20 03:40
jose	special effects.. etc.	Nov 20 03:40
jose	less deterioration.. etc	Nov 20 03:40
schestowitz	That's what Hyper-V does with SUSE... against GNU/Linux	Nov 20 03:41
schestowitz	Microsoft SUSE.. MS-USE	Nov 20 03:41
jose	:-)	Nov 20 03:41
schestowitz	Maybe we should make that a label	Nov 20 03:42
schestowitz	Like Vista 7	Nov 20 03:42
jose	good label	Nov 20 03:42
jose	quick before someone trademarks it	Nov 20 03:42
jose	misuse	Nov 20 03:42
jose	ms uses	Nov 20 03:42
schestowitz	OK, I'll try it for a while.	Nov 20 03:42
jose	ms suse	Nov 20 03:42
jose	etc	Nov 20 03:42
schestowitz	MS-uSE	Nov 20 03:42
jose	no all caps is good	Nov 20 03:43
jose	because it leaves more options as equal partners	Nov 20 03:43
schestowitz	But it's less obvious that it's S.u.S.E.	Nov 20 03:43
jose	like misuse	Nov 20 03:43
jose	not on BN	Nov 20 03:43
jose	maybe elsewhere	Nov 20 03:43
jose	?	Nov 20 03:43
schestowitz	SUENET?	Nov 20 03:43
schestowitz	There's Ballnux already.	Nov 20 03:43
schestowitz	Google for 'ballnux' and you'll se.	Nov 20 03:44
jose	that one sounds nasty.. it works for me	Nov 20 03:44
jose	ballnux	Nov 20 03:44
jose	the suenet.. but not as a replacement for ms use	Nov 20 03:44
jose	MS-USE was fine.. maybe play around with it	Nov 20 03:44
jose	for a while	Nov 20 03:45
jose	to see what catches on	Nov 20 03:45
jose	suenet is foreign.. can be about anything.. the connection is missing	Nov 20 03:45
schestowitz	Or SUE Linux	Nov 20 03:46
jose	there is ABUSE and then there is MS-USE	Nov 20 03:46
schestowitz	I made this typos accidentally before.	Nov 20 03:46
schestowitz	*typo	Nov 20 03:46
jose	PATENT IT QUICK	Nov 20 03:46
jose	accidents are great for patenting	Nov 20 03:47
schestowitz	Shane built SueMe Linux, which was Slax-based	Nov 20 03:47
jose	it's the full slap in the face and more	Nov 20 03:47
schestowitz	I ought to get some sleep now. It's 4 AM.	Nov 20 03:47
schestowitz	Catch you later.	Nov 20 03:47
jose	yup	Nov 20 03:47
jose	me too	Nov 20 03:47
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 20 09:24:24 2008
*Now talking on #boycottnovell		Nov 20 09:24
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: "Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications" [publicly logged]		Nov 20 09:24
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sun Oct 5 19:20:28 2008		Nov 20 09:24
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel		Nov 20 09:24
-NickServ-You are now identified for schestowitz.		Nov 20 09:24
*services. sets mode +e schestowitz		Nov 20 09:24
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz		Nov 20 09:24
*#boycottnovell :[freenode-info] help freenode weed out clonebots, please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup		Nov 20 09:24
schestowitz	Why is Novelll referred to as an "open source" company? http://ostatic.com/177042-blog/how-low-... And SUN??????	Nov 20 09:31
PetoKraus	still awaken? :)	Nov 20 09:32
MinceR	geekings	Nov 20 09:34
schestowitz	PetoKraus: I slept for 4.5 hours	Nov 20 09:35
schestowitz	Couldn't do longer. Sometimes my body's just like that. Rare though...	Nov 20 09:36
schestowitz	Here's something to help (GPLv2): Sun commits to JavaFX despite uncertainty < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/... >	Nov 20 09:38
schestowitz	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/20/bar... "The failure of Obama's webmasters to follow anything remotely like best practices is more than a little troubling because it suggests they don't fully grasp the security realities of living in a Web 2.0 world."	Nov 20 09:40
PetoKraus	schestowitz: is your page down, or...?	Nov 20 09:45
schestowitz	You too?	Nov 20 09:45
schestowitz	I can reach it from the validator.	Nov 20 09:45
schestowitz	But I can't access the site from here, so I know the server is up. I was gonna ask to see if it was JANET.	Nov 20 09:46
*maxstirner (n=maxstirn@p508A0A0F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #boycottnovell		Nov 20 09:54
maxstirner	morning. site is down?	Nov 20 09:54
PetoKraus	site, dns, or something	Nov 20 09:55
maxstirner	i see..	Nov 20 09:57
schestowitz	"As quite a few folks have sent in, it appears that the always funny team of folks who made up Monty Python actually seem to get the concept of giving away infinite goods to increase the value of scarce goods. They've set up a Monty Python channel on YouTube, where they'll be putting up pretty much all of their videos in high quality. " ( Monty Python Puts All Its Content On YouTube To Increase Sales Of Scarce Goods )	Nov 20 09:58
maxstirner	nice	Nov 20 09:59
schestowitz	maxstirner: it worked momentarily this morning, then become unavailable again	Nov 20 09:59
PetoKraus	schestowitz: just read about that	Nov 20 09:59
maxstirner	on the anniversary of the sellout as well ;)	Nov 20 09:59
PetoKraus	it's not all content, it's selected content so far	Nov 20 09:59
schestowitz	Not a DNS issue.	Nov 20 09:59
schestowitz	Ã¢âÅÃ¢ââ¬(roy@localhost Thu, 20 Nov 08)Ã¢ââ¬——————————————— ——————————— ——Ã¢ââ¬(/home/roy)Ã¢ââ¬Ã¢ââ¬Ã¢ââ¬Ã¢ââ¬Ã¢âÂ	Nov 20 09:59
schestowitz	Ã¢ââÃ¢ââ¬(09:59 $)Ã¢ââ¬> wget boycottnovell.com	Nov 20 09:59
schestowitz	--2008-11-20 09:59:24-- http://boycottnovell.com/	Nov 20 09:59
schestowitz	Resolving boycottnovell.com... 72.29.75.151	Nov 20 09:59
schestowitz	Connecting to boycottnovell.com\|72.29.75.151\|:80...	Nov 20 09:59
schestowitz	Ã¢âÅÃ¢ââ¬(roy@localhost Thu, 20 Nov 08)Ã¢ââ¬————————— ——————————————— ————Ã¢ââ¬(/home/roy)Ã¢ââ¬Ã¢ââ¬Ã¢ââ¬Ã¢ââ¬Ã¢âÂ	Nov 20 09:59
schestowitz	Ã¢ââÃ¢ââ¬(09:59 $)Ã¢ââ¬> ping boycottnovell.com	Nov 20 09:59
schestowitz	PING boycottnovell.com (72.29.75.151) 56(84) bytes of data.	Nov 20 09:59
PetoKraus	uh	Nov 20 10:00
schestowitz	Video here: http://techdirt.com/articles/20081119/0...	Nov 20 10:00
schestowitz	The server is definitely up and running: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=htt...	Nov 20 10:01
schestowitz	Although the IRC logs cause the FP not to validate	Nov 20 10:02
schestowitz	PING boycottnovell.com (72.29.75.151) 56(84) bytes of data.	Nov 20 10:08
schestowitz	From 72.29.88.33 icmp_seq=447 Time to live exceeded	Nov 20 10:08
schestowitz	From if-4-1-0-463.mcore3.LDN-London.as6453.net (195.219.195.37) icmp_seq=448 Time to live exceeded	Nov 20 10:08
schestowitz	From if-4-1-0-463.mcore3.LDN-London.as6453.net (195.219.195.37) icmp_seq=449 Time to live exceeded	Nov 20 10:08
schestowitz	From if-4-1-0-463.mcore3.LDN-London.as6453.net (195.219.195.37) icmp_seq=450 Time to live exceeded	Nov 20 10:08
schestowitz	From if-4-1-0-463.mcore3.LDN-London.as6453.net (195.219.195.37) icmp_seq=451 Time to live exceeded	Nov 20 10:08
PetoKraus	that obama article is nice	Nov 20 10:08
*Omar87 (n=omar@79.173.254.136) has joined #boycottnovell		Nov 20 10:16
Omar87	schestowitz: Hey buddy, what's wrong with the website?	Nov 20 10:17
schestowitz	You too?	Nov 20 10:17
schestowitz	I don't know. The server is up. maxstirner, can you get to BN?	Nov 20 10:17
Omar87	schestowitz: A D.O.S attack by Microsoft??	Nov 20 10:17
schestowitz	Hehe. No.	Nov 20 10:18
Omar87	hehehe :D	Nov 20 10:18
Omar87	What's wrong?	Nov 20 10:18
maxstirner	schestowitz: couldnt earlier, cant now	Nov 20 10:18
Omar87	schestowitz: hmm??	Nov 20 10:18
maxstirner	domain doesnt resolve.. doesnt ping.. ip from rdns doesnt ping..	Nov 20 10:18
Omar87	Weird..	Nov 20 10:18
schestowitz	Hehe.	Nov 20 10:19
schestowitz	One must wonder if someone 'pulled a Wikileaks'	Nov 20 10:19
Omar87	Wikileaks?	Nov 20 10:19
schestowitz	Oh. Got it	Nov 20 10:19
schestowitz	ping boycottnovell.com	Nov 20 10:19
schestowitz	PING boycottnovell.com (72.29.75.151) 56(84) bytes of data.	Nov 20 10:19
schestowitz	64 bytes from pass3.dizinc.com (72.29.75.151): icmp_seq=465 ttl=48 time=105 ms	Nov 20 10:19
schestowitz	64 bytes from pass3.dizinc.com (72.29.75.151): icmp_seq=466 ttl=48 time=105 ms	Nov 20 10:19
schestowitz	64 bytes from pass3.dizinc.com (72.29.75.151): icmp_seq=467 ttl=48 time=105 ms	Nov 20 10:19
schestowitz	64 bytes from pass3.dizinc.com (72.29.75.151): icmp_seq=468 ttl=48 time=105 ms	Nov 20 10:19
schestowitz	64 bytes from pass3.dizinc.com (72.29.75.151): icmp_seq=469 ttl=48 time=106 ms	Nov 20 10:19
schestowitz	64 bytes from pass3.dizinc.com (72.29.75.151): icmp_seq=470 ttl=48 time=105 ms	Nov 20 10:19
schestowitz	64 bytes from pass3.dizinc.com (72.29.75.151): icmp_seq=471 ttl=48 time=105 ms	Nov 20 10:19
schestowitz	64 bytes from pass3.dizinc.com (72.29.75.151): icmp_seq=472 ttl=48 time=105 ms	Nov 20 10:19
schestowitz	64 bytes from pass3.dizinc.com (72.29.75.151): icmp_seq=473 ttl=48 time=105 ms	Nov 20 10:19
schestowitz	64 bytes from pass3.dizinc.com (72.29.75.151): icmp_seq=474 ttl=48 time=105 ms	Nov 20 10:19
schestowitz	http://www.blacksunjournal.com/current-affairs/125...	Nov 20 10:20
Omar87	lol, I've opened a blog a couple of days ago, still wondering what to write in it.. lol. ? :)	Nov 20 10:21
maxstirner	its back now	Nov 20 10:28
schestowitz	Site's back	Nov 20 10:28
schestowitz	Very weird	Nov 20 10:28
maxstirner	following all the silverlight pr, its good to have it up just now	Nov 20 10:28
schestowitz	If only I knew the cause	Nov 20 10:28
schestowitz	maxstirner:/ Omar87 / PetoKraus: what time did you first notice downtime?	Nov 20 10:28
PetoKraus	when i woke up and my rss didn't refresh	Nov 20 10:29
PetoKraus	9:01	Nov 20 10:29
maxstirner	0930 gmt approx? was just gonna look up your reaction to that silverlight PR stuff .. got some conspiracy theories going right away	Nov 20 10:29
Omar87	Omar87: Minutes ago.	Nov 20 10:31
PetoKraus	:D	Nov 20 10:32
schestowitz	Lots of Novell/Opensuse employees/people seem to be attacking BN now.	Nov 20 10:36
schestowitz	All those ugly comments from last night... many come from German IPs	Nov 20 10:36
maxstirner	comments where? on BN?	Nov 20 10:36
schestowitz	Yes, just attacks.	Nov 20 10:36
schestowitz	We have over 20,000 pageviews a day, but the comments only come from those who can't keep their mouth shut. sigh	Nov 20 10:37
Omar87	Can you show me some of them?	Nov 20 10:40
schestowitz	Have a look at the front page. Some of them are Slashdot astroturfers whom came to BN to stalk twitter.	Nov 20 10:43
schestowitz	Of course, needless to say, they'll deny it.	Nov 20 10:44
maxstirner	its just due to the attention re: silverlight and 2-year anniversary atm, consider irritating them to such a degree an indicator of your success :D	Nov 20 10:44
schestowitz	They don't do well.	Nov 20 10:44
schestowitz	They started talking about Silverlight 3	Nov 20 10:44
schestowitz	I kid you not. I see it in headline.	Nov 20 10:44
schestowitz	Vapourware all over again... is Novell still in some semi-cooked 1.0 area....? Strategy: help XAML more widespread (fool Web devs into thinking it's cross-platform) and see GNU/Linux "not working" with the Web.	Nov 20 10:45
Omar87	schestowitz: I can't believe there are still people out there who still believe that Red Hat is taking control of FOSS and OSS.. -_-	Nov 20 11:03
schestowitz	Taking control? No, the code is all out there. Centos, StartCom Xos, Unbreakable...	Nov 20 11:04
schestowitz	It's Novell that uses patents to poison and stifle use, impeding sharing	Nov 20 11:04
schestowitz	Good luck getting the code for SLES. You must be a Novell customer to gain access to it. BN wrote about this before.	Nov 20 11:05
Omar87	schestowitz: Exactly! :)	Nov 20 11:05
schestowitz	There are no SUSE forks. NONE.	Nov 20 11:06
schestowitz	Red Hat? There are so many	Nov 20 11:06
schestowitz	/forks/rebranding/	Nov 20 11:06
Omar87	schestowitz: But I think the source code for OpenSuse is attainable, or is it?	Nov 20 11:06
schestowitz	Yes, but not SLES/D. Not unless you just through hoops and probably pay	Nov 20 11:07
Omar87	mhmm	Nov 20 11:07
schestowitz	I wonder what the FSF would say	Nov 20 11:07
schestowitz	They could use that against Novell	Nov 20 11:07
Omar87	schestowitz: Actually, I wonder how come we never hear anything from RMS and about that.. ?	Nov 20 11:08
schestowitz	Novell would insist it's in compliance with the GPL.	Nov 20 11:08
schestowitz	Omar87: that may change soon. He tries not to stip up trouble.	Nov 20 11:08
schestowitz	*stir	Nov 20 11:08
Omar87	schestowitz: Who are they fooling? :D	Nov 20 11:09
schestowitz	Blue collar typos	Nov 20 11:09
schestowitz	Not developers	Nov 20 11:10
Omar87	schestowitz: If people at Novell are a bunch of idiots, this doesn't necessarily mean that everyone else out there is, right? :)	Nov 20 11:10
schestowitz	I sometimes wonder if staff at Novell will defect. In difficult times people don't hop off board	Nov 20 11:11
Omar87	schestowitz: this is just ridiculous, all the links, quotes, images, and reports you keep adding to each and everyone of your posts, and the lady still says what you say is so unsupported?? 0_o	Nov 20 11:14
schestowitz	Heh.	Nov 20 11:15
schestowitz	Someone got this headline too early: http://www.fsdaily.com/Opposition/Microsoft_Insults_t... (before it was corrected)	Nov 20 11:15
schestowitz	It still says Jordan (Amman)	Nov 20 11:16
schestowitz	Omar87: I have a huge post on Mono coming. It's getting hard for the deniers to go on, so they attack messengers now. They don't like being presented the truth, so they want to suppress it.	Nov 20 11:16
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kentma	denier's a great word: roman coin, thickness of silk, and someone who disputes the validity of established fact... what a great combination :-)	Nov 20 11:55
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anivar	schestowitz: some among deleted videos are recovered	Nov 20 12:23
anivar	it is in my blog	Nov 20 12:23
schestowitz	Cool.	Nov 20 12:23
schestowitz	Will you put them up?	Nov 20 12:23
schestowitz	Oh, wait.	Nov 20 12:23
anivar	http://anivar.movingrepublic.org/2008...	Nov 20 12:24
schestowitz	Can I make ogg from these? Please?	Nov 20 12:24
schestowitz	Is that all of them?	Nov 20 12:25
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_doug	interesting msg seen on a website ..	Nov 20 12:41
_doug	In order to view comments on *.* you need to enable JavaScript.	Nov 20 12:41
_doug	If you are using Firefox and NoScript addon, please mark *.* as trusted.	Nov 20 12:41
schestowitz	:-)	Nov 20 12:42
schestowitz	They got complaints from people who don't like Web spyware	Nov 20 12:42
schestowitz	The Web devolved into a probing machine analysing people's thoughts and habits. It's amazing what happens behind the scenes.	Nov 20 12:43
schestowitz	Google knows everyone's preferred screen resolution, home address, office address, etc.	Nov 20 12:43
_doug	another free advert for MS on slashdot ..	Nov 20 12:50
_doug	http://tech.slashdot.org/te...	Nov 20 12:50
_doug	:)	Nov 20 12:50
schestowitz	Well, MS is a sponsor at /., so they have to be "fair".	Nov 20 12:50
_doug	bringing viruses to the HPC sector .. :0	Nov 20 12:52
schestowitz	heh.	Nov 20 12:55
schestowitz	It seems as though the editor of Linux Today reads BN.	Nov 20 12:56
schestowitz	_doug: listen... about HPC...	Nov 20 12:56
schestowitz	Here at the University of Manchester I've seen how Microsoft approaches this.	Nov 20 12:56
schestowitz	Be NOT surprised if Microsoft paid someone to experiment with Windows just to crow about it ('case study').	Nov 20 12:57
schestowitz	They do a lot of the same stuff with Silverlight, e.g. bribing the Lib. of Congress $millions to put Silverlight in people's faces.	Nov 20 12:57
schestowitz	I've put more examples here, in case anyone asks about it (or asks for proof of it being a PATTERN): http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/...	Nov 20 12:58
_doug	free adverts pretending to be 'studies' or tech news ..	Nov 20 13:00
_doug	"the deepest of pockets, unlimited ambition, and they are willing to lose money for years and years just to make sure that you don’t make any money, either"	Nov 20 13:00
schestowitz	Prepare for MS to turn Yahoo into a 'subsidiary', like NOVL: http://www.pcworld.com/article/154177/...	Nov 20 13:01
_doug	I do believe that sentiment motovates most evangelism, it's not about promoting the $product, it's about prefenting the other fella getting into the space ..	Nov 20 13:01
schestowitz	_doug: that's Cringely.	Nov 20 13:02
_doug	Cringely: well, he's right ain't he ?	Nov 20 13:04
schestowitz	Bear in mind that the advert came from IDC (IDG being a subsidy)... Microsoft 'buddies'	Nov 20 13:04
_doug	"Robert X. Cringely is the pen name of both technology journalist Mark Stephens and a string of writers for a column in InfoWorld"	Nov 20 13:05
schestowitz	Yup	Nov 20 13:05
schestowitz	I spoke to the real one	Nov 20 13:05
_doug	"Internet Café Invaded by Linux Desktop"	Nov 20 13:06
_doug	http://www.junauza.com/2008/11/internet-caf...	Nov 20 13:06
schestowitz	He knows the dirty stuff	Nov 20 13:06
maxstirner	farming	Nov 20 13:06
schestowitz	He hopefully gave no address	Nov 20 13:06
maxstirner	sorry wrong window ;)	Nov 20 13:06
schestowitz	Microsoft will tak e em to the back and offer Wincentives	Nov 20 13:07
*lucian (n=lucian@201-43-206-143.dsl.telesp.net.br) has joined #boycottnovell		Nov 20 13:26
*lucian is now known as seller_liar		Nov 20 13:26
_doug	seller_liar: what does that mean ?	Nov 20 13:32
seller_liar	what?	Nov 20 13:32
schestowitz	_doug: that's his regular name.	Nov 20 13:32
schestowitz	http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2... < Windows 7 doomed by economic outlook >	Nov 20 13:35
_doug	what deos it mean ?	Nov 20 13:36
_doug	does ..	Nov 20 13:36
schestowitz	I don't know, but seller_liar is one of the good guys.	Nov 20 13:36
schestowitz	The name is amusing.	Nov 20 13:36
seller_liar	heheh,the name is wrong typed,	Nov 20 13:37
seller_liar	it's not a good english[	Nov 20 13:37
seller_liar	that's intentional	Nov 20 13:37
seller_liar	but ,I'm not a liar	Nov 20 13:37
seller_liar	I do not sell lies	Nov 20 13:40
schestowitz	Sounds synonymous with FUDmeister.	Nov 20 13:40
seller_liar	What is FUDmeister?	Nov 20 13:41
_doug	A FUD meister is a practicioner of the art of injecting FUD into online discussions, under thw guise of asking innocious questions ..	Nov 20 13:46
seller_liar	Oh, this is not intentional	Nov 20 13:47
seller_liar	Sometimes ,I ask for simply curiosity	Nov 20 13:47
seller_liar	But my questions is not fud	Nov 20 13:48
_doug	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meister	Nov 20 13:48
seller_liar	It'only curiosity ,not flamming or trolling	Nov 20 13:48
_doug	I never said your questions were fud, where did yoy see 'FUDmeister' ?	Nov 20 13:48
trmanco	how are MS shares today?	Nov 20 13:49
_doug	Oh, I see .. schest said it .. not paying attention .. watching Youtube vids :)	Nov 20 13:49
trmanco	hmm	Nov 20 13:50
trmanco	FUDmeister == FUDmaster	Nov 20 13:50
schestowitz	Let's see the markets... shudder	Nov 20 13:51
seller_liar	I will stop to asking obvious questions	Nov 20 13:52
trmanco	meister is a German word	Nov 20 13:53
schestowitz	Good news. rPath distances itself from Novell in the sense that it div ersifies.	Nov 20 13:54
schestowitz	http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/rPat...	Nov 20 13:54
schestowitz	seller_liar: no accusations were made. In USENET there are FUDmesters. Many of them.	Nov 20 13:54
schestowitz	"My mouse doesn't work... why doesn't Linux work?"	Nov 20 13:55
schestowitz	"My college doesn't allow Linux, what should I do?"	Nov 20 13:55
seller_liar	schestowitz:ok, i got the style	Nov 20 13:55
schestowitz	"Why does my Lunix keep crashing?"	Nov 20 13:55
schestowitz	It serves as fake testimonials	Nov 20 13:56
seller_liar	schestowitz: Is very hard to me criticise free software	Nov 20 13:56
seller_liar	schestowitz: My of my time is criticise Linus and "open source" people	Nov 20 13:56
schestowitz	FTSE is below 4000 again.	Nov 20 13:57
seller_liar	schestowitz: I agree 100% with free software	Nov 20 13:57
schestowitz	Everything in Europe is crashing today (not a single exception)	Nov 20 13:57
schestowitz	seller_liar: they are our friends too, we need to criticise them less of 'educate' them (politely, not from a high horse). The minds of Microsoft are broken beyond repair. It's only reparable if they spend a lot of time learning *NIX, which scares them.	Nov 20 13:59
schestowitz	Most of what I know about XP and Vista is based on stuff I see in Web sites.	Nov 20 13:59
seller_liar	For example ,I do not agree with mono	Nov 20 13:59
seller_liar	But , I agree to create a java implementation of .net , to give more power to java	Nov 20 14:00
schestowitz	But I knew Win98 well (based on some use), so I can comment critically and ask hard question about Windows as well.	Nov 20 14:00
seller_liar	And not give more power to .net	Nov 20 14:00
*kapipi (n=chatzill@130.226.169.143) has joined #boycottnovell		Nov 20 14:01
seller_liar	I know about some design flaws of Free software	Nov 20 14:01
seller_liar	but It's not a intention to create FUD	Nov 20 14:01
seller_liar	For example	Nov 20 14:02
seller_liar	I like much more PC-BSD package system than actual package system of linux distros	Nov 20 14:02
seller_liar	It's not FUD, this is a simple opinion and reflection	Nov 20 14:03
seller_liar	But in other way	Nov 20 14:03
schestowitz	Better than getting executables from some untrusted sites.	Nov 20 14:03
seller_liar	I do not like BSD people because of stupid "superior" mentality	Nov 20 14:03
seller_liar	But this model of PC-BSD is better suited for beginners	Nov 20 14:04
seller_liar	The package loads all necessary dependencies in a single package	Nov 20 14:04
trmanco	does anybody know how long it took me to install MS SQL server express on a school computer?	Nov 20 14:04
seller_liar	There's no a list of packages to download	Nov 20 14:04
seller_liar	And the user is very free to download a package from any place	Nov 20 14:05
seller_liar	Not only of "trusted repositories"	Nov 20 14:06
seller_liar	PC-BSD for example try to use a Stable API	Nov 20 14:06
seller_liar	But actually I'm using Kubuntu 8.10	Nov 20 14:08
seller_liar	Sometimes I acess this IRC using windows because I'm using other machines sometimes	Nov 20 14:08
schestowitz	trmanco: how long?	Nov 20 14:09
seller_liar	I have installed kubuntu yesterday	Nov 20 14:09
seller_liar	I'm using konversation	Nov 20 14:09
trmanco	about 1h:30min	Nov 20 14:09
schestowitz	I have it on my secondary partition here.	Nov 20 14:09
schestowitz	[haven't booted into it for months though]	Nov 20 14:09
seller_liar	I hate windows	Nov 20 14:10
schestowitz	trmanco: that can't be true.	Nov 20 14:10
seller_liar	Try to use Internet exploder in slated.org	Nov 20 14:10
trmanco	I had to install the .Net 3.5 crap and reboot, apply some weird hotfixes	Nov 20 14:10
trmanco	I had to turn off the anti virus thingy or else it would have taken a lot more time	Nov 20 14:11
seller_liar	heheh , Internet acess in Brazil is not cheap	Nov 20 14:11
seller_liar	Some times I'm using cybercafes to access Boycottnovell	Nov 20 14:11
seller_liar	I cannot uninstall windows of cybercafes	Nov 20 14:12
maxstirner	you in brazil?	Nov 20 14:12
maxstirner	ive seen quite a few internet cafes running ubuntu there	Nov 20 14:12
seller_liar	why max?	Nov 20 14:12
maxstirner	pq eu gosto do brasil :D	Nov 20 14:12
seller_liar	But there are not in my city	Nov 20 14:12
seller_liar	only stupid windowz	Nov 20 14:12
maxstirner	i've seen it done, more than in europe	Nov 20 14:12
*Omar87 (n=omar@79.173.224.229) has joined #boycottnovell		Nov 20 14:13
Omar87	Hi everyone?	Nov 20 14:13
schestowitz	Hi again.	Nov 20 14:13
*PetoKraus (n=pk@cpc3-broo2-0-0-cust711.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovell		Nov 20 14:14
trmanco	hi	Nov 20 14:14
twitter	hello!	Nov 20 14:15
twitter	I don't agree with the Inq., " Linux your time is now or never" Free software will always be able to rise above non free. If M$ manages to suppress it for one company, like they did with Asus, another will see a chance to make that much more money from a market which is that much larger.	Nov 20 14:18
Omar87	Man, if Red Hat did lock the Red Hat distro Away, then can we guaranty that Canonical won't do the same to Ubuntu one day?	Nov 20 14:19
trmanco	MSFT:Pre-Market: 18.12 -0.17 (-0.93%) - Nov 20, 9:28AM EST	Nov 20 14:20
twitter	wow, down she goes.	Nov 20 14:21
schestowitz	She?	Nov 20 14:21
twitter	M$ is a bitch.	Nov 20 14:21
schestowitz	Sue ballmer?	Nov 20 14:21
schestowitz	SUE-SE.	Nov 20 14:22
twitter	I'd like to sue ballmer, personally.	Nov 20 14:22
schestowitz	No, I meant Susan.	Nov 20 14:22
twitter	joke	Nov 20 14:22
trmanco	lol	Nov 20 14:23
twitter	52 week low is now $18.08	Nov 20 14:24
twitter	Does anyone see a bottom in this thing? Is it filled with red ink? Splash, glug, glug, glug.	Nov 20 14:25
*schestowitz searches for SCOX chart		Nov 20 14:25
twitter	delisted, I think.	Nov 20 14:25
schestowitz	Yes	Nov 20 14:25
twitter	Next....	Nov 20 14:25
schestowitz	BB (Big Blue	Nov 20 14:26
twitter	http://finance.google.com/finan...	Nov 20 14:26
twitter	IBM has more going on than that	Nov 20 14:26
schestowitz	MS:Low: 18.08	Nov 20 14:27
schestowitz	My guess is that Asia will gain traction	Nov 20 14:27
seller_liar	Why IBM is so.... milionaire?	Nov 20 14:28
seller_liar	IBM does not a lot of ads and publishing	Nov 20 14:28
seller_liar	Why IBM does for conquer so much money?	Nov 20 14:29
MinceR	afaik ibm does most of its business with mainframe-like stuff	Nov 20 14:29
seller_liar	Ah ,yes 15 million ONLY ONE z	Nov 20 14:29
MinceR	that's why they neglected their desktop-related business	Nov 20 14:29
seller_liar	this is very high price	Nov 20 14:29
seller_liar	I do not like IBM ,is very stupid how only one company carries a lot of money	Nov 20 14:30
twitter	IBM got into free software consulting, a market with a future that complements their hardware sales.	Nov 20 14:31
schestowitz	They use false marketing to sell Lotus	Nov 20 14:31
seller_liar	of course linux + a 15 million z is very lucrative	Nov 20 14:31
seller_liar	roy , ibm ant criminal inside agrees free software because costs nothing for them	Nov 20 14:32
twitter	The consulting business makes money with other people's distributions and complements their heavy machinery.	Nov 20 14:32
schestowitz	BN in Japanese (Chinese I think...): http://www.lupaworld.com/viewnews-118759.html	Nov 20 14:32
twitter	Finally, it seems to have worked and they made some decent money.	Nov 20 14:32
schestowitz	They just need to bring back the code, that's all.	Nov 20 14:33
seller_liar	But criminal inside and Big Beast does not "like " the "ethical principles of freedom"	Nov 20 14:33
schestowitz	Some of their HPC stuff they recently opened, IIRC	Nov 20 14:33
schestowitz	Don't let them get away with just free labour from FOSS people. They must make it reciprocal.	Nov 20 14:33
schestowitz	Also, they must fight s/w patents.	Nov 20 14:33
schestowitz	Which is why I'm harsh on Sutor and others... they see money, so they don't feel like changing for the better.	Nov 20 14:34
schestowitz	IBM, unlike Microsoft, does not FIGHT freedom.	Nov 20 14:34
twitter	I'm not familiar enough with what they have done to judge. They have contributed to ODF and GNU/Linux kernel GPL, no?	Nov 20 14:34
schestowitz	That's where IBM got it right all along. But Mirosoft not only attacks Freedom. It broke the law to attack everything.	Nov 20 14:35
schestowitz	Business model: destroy choices, "Evangelism is WAR" [R], smear opposition	Nov 20 14:35
seller_liar	IBM only helps "linux foudation" for linux works in Z	Nov 20 14:35
seller_liar	There's not a true idea of ethical freedom	Nov 20 14:36
seller_liar	IBM works for "open source"	Nov 20 14:36
schestowitz	Linux fundation [sic] is possibly a front for many companies, but IBM is the main one.	Nov 20 14:36
schestowitz	Same with OIN.	Nov 20 14:36
schestowitz	Intel needs them too to sell hardware.	Nov 20 14:36
twitter	SCO accused them of "stealing" their crap to "help" GNU Linux. They must have contributed something to have that thrown at them.	Nov 20 14:37
seller_liar	Linux foundation have a lot of evil people	Nov 20 14:37
schestowitz	Hardware companies wishing to improve their margins...	Nov 20 14:37
twitter	I like the Roughly Drafted take on that.	Nov 20 14:37
schestowitz	Let me reread about the new head of OIN.	Nov 20 14:37
twitter	It's impossible for hardware companies to sell more than commodities if they all sell Winblows. Free software offers them a way to distinguish themselves, as Apple has done.	Nov 20 14:38
schestowitz	http://www.openinventionnetwork.com/about.php "Prior to joining the Open Invention Network, Mr. Bergelt served as president and CEO of two Hedge Funds – Paradox Capital and IPI – formed to unlock the considerable asset value of patents, trademarks and copyrights in middle market companies."	Nov 20 14:39
schestowitz	So he's not an IBMer like Rosenthal	Nov 20 14:39
twitter	For what it's worth, the market had more faith in IBM than it did in M$. IBM actually recovered it's value from the 2000 crash and has only sunk to 1/2 the peak now. M$ never recovered and is now trading at less than 1/3rd peak.	Nov 20 14:40
schestowitz	CEO of OIN: job description: push papers around.	Nov 20 14:40
*seller_ (n=lucian@201-68-178-250.dsl.telesp.net.br) has joined #boycottnovell		Nov 20 14:40
schestowitz	http://fsoss.senecac.on.ca/2008/?q=user/34	Nov 20 14:40
schestowitz	He seems harmless. :-)	Nov 20 14:41
seller_	There are another seller_liar	Nov 20 14:41
seller_	And it's not me	Nov 20 14:42
twitter	That's interesting.	Nov 20 14:43
*seller_liar has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))		Nov 20 14:43
seller_	This is very stupid	Nov 20 14:43
twitter	People at slashdot keep telling me that everyone is twitter, but no one else has really been me yet.	Nov 20 14:43
seller_	Blizzard distrributes a Diablo 3 kit with docx	Nov 20 14:44
twitter	yes, that is stupid.	Nov 20 14:44
seller_	Blizzard does not know about ODF and even the junk OOXML	Nov 20 14:44

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: November 20th, 2008 - Part 1

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