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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: November 20th, 2008 - Part 1

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schestowitzWill be ready at the beginning of next yearNov 20 00:00
schestowitzWhoops.Nov 20 00:00
PetoKrausschestowitz: yes, i know. Opera too, i thinkNov 20 00:00
schestowitzJust got mail from RMS. ;-) Let me see...Nov 20 00:00
PetoKraus:DNov 20 00:00
schestowitzCool!Nov 20 00:00
schestowitzThe FSF/GNU will look at ways of helping BN's campaignNov 20 00:01
schestowitzAs in spreading the message.Nov 20 00:01
PetoKraus:)Nov 20 00:03
PetoKrausnow, who's the fanny!Nov 20 00:03
schestowitzNot the British slang, hopefulyl.Nov 20 00:04
PetoKraus:) yes, the brittish slangNov 20 00:05
PetoKrausthat was intended for ppl like BB etcNov 20 00:06
schestowitzAre you turning your site in smut?Nov 20 00:06
PetoKraussmut?Nov 20 00:06
schestowitz*toNov 20 00:06
PetoKrausyou mean the largest network of porn sites?Nov 20 00:06
PetoKraus"http://smut.com/"Nov 20 00:06
schestowitzDidn't know about it. It's a word thoug.Nov 20 00:07
schestowitz*though. It just seemed off topic, that's all.Nov 20 00:07
schestowitzBB has a new article.Nov 20 00:07
schestowitzAbout FOSS and BiZniZNov 20 00:07
PetoKrausschestowitz: my page was never about softwareNov 20 00:08
PetoKrausit was always just tidbits from my life...Nov 20 00:08
schestowitzHe often writes about how we should all get more 'professional'... as in mixed source, patents, OOXML, whatever... I don't understand himNov 20 00:08
schestowitz.he's clearly with Free software and all, but he misses the point of the need for changeNov 20 00:08
PetoKrausmainly pictures. Though, since I don't have time to go around and shoot people with camera, and shoot stuff with camera...Nov 20 00:08
PetoKraushe's clearly open source.Nov 20 00:08
schestowitzHe wants FOSS people to assimilate and adapt to the very same thing they oppose, because it's _wrong_Nov 20 00:09
PetoKrauswe may argue about his free software allegianceNov 20 00:09
schestowitzMaybe he's confused.Nov 20 00:09
schestowitzBut he's not a bad person.Nov 20 00:09
PetoKrausi dunno. mixed feelings, mostlyNov 20 00:10
schestowitzMe and him are alike in many ways, but he shies away from exposing corruption.Nov 20 00:10
schestowitzThat's something we /must/ have Nov 20 00:10
PetoKrausi don't know him that much either.Nov 20 00:10
PetoKrausto judge, i meanNov 20 00:10
schestowitzOtherwise it won't be exposed. Microsoft talks about it itself... letting the opposition find the misconduct.Nov 20 00:10
PetoKrausright. nice chat; I am gonna take a nap. long day tomorrow.Nov 20 00:19
schestowitzNap? At half past midnight?Nov 20 00:20
PetoKraus:D yes. till like 8:30 or soNov 20 00:21
schestowitzSo it's not a nap then. Gosh. 8 hours. I'm used to less than 6Nov 20 00:23
PetoKrausnah, i work differentlyNov 20 00:23
PetoKrausi "sleep" once a yearNov 20 00:24
schestowitzHibernation then. Winter time.Nov 20 00:24
PetoKrausalmostNov 20 00:24
schestowitzBe careful.Nov 20 00:24
PetoKrausit's usually after three days of being awakenNov 20 00:24
josewho is this person being talked about?Nov 20 00:24
PetoKrausplaying deus exNov 20 00:24
schestowitzCheck your BIOS beforehand.Nov 20 00:24
schestowitzYou might now wake up if it's Foxconn.Nov 20 00:24
schestowitz*n otNov 20 00:25
PetoKrausi need to stop being lazy twat thoughNov 20 00:25
PetoKrausand force myself to get outta my bed at about 8.00Nov 20 00:25
PetoKrausthough it's hard cause  we are not using our central heating yetNov 20 00:25
PetoKrausi mean, it's fkn 10C, i use to sleep outside in sleeping bag in the summer at about the same temperatureNov 20 00:26
PetoKrausschestowitz: how cold it's "down there"?Nov 20 00:26
schestowitzNot enough.Nov 20 00:27
schestowitzIf it were colder, I'd open a windowNov 20 00:27
PetoKrausnice to see someone as stingy as me ;)Nov 20 00:27
PetoKrausour flat is like heat black hole, we are sucking the heat from other flats around usNov 20 00:28
schestowitzNot good for metabolism. ;-)Nov 20 00:29
PetoKrauswhy?Nov 20 00:29
schestowitzYou'll get puffed up... like LinusNov 20 00:29
PetoKrausmy standard body temperature is 37.0CNov 20 00:29
schestowitzLet me find something.Nov 20 00:29
PetoKrausnah, i burn stuffNov 20 00:29
PetoKrausyou know what's scoobie snack?Nov 20 00:29
schestowitzhttp://torvalds-family.blogspot...Nov 20 00:29
PetoKrausi can eat three a day and still be hungryNov 20 00:29
schestowitzsnacks aren't food. I used to work at the office more. My diet was bad.Nov 20 00:30
schestowitzActually, RMS used to /LIVE/ in his office.Nov 20 00:30
PetoKrausalright, you don't know what's scoobie snackNov 20 00:30
schestowitz*LOL* I thought about that...Nov 20 00:30
schestowitzThe song...Nov 20 00:31
PetoKraus"In Glasgow's late night eateries the term Scooby Snack denotes a roll containing: Lorne sausage, bacon, a fried egg, a Tattie Scone, a beef burger and cheese."Nov 20 00:31
schestowitzAh..Nov 20 00:31
PetoKrausand craploads of brown sauceNov 20 00:31
PetoKrausall fried.Nov 20 00:31
schestowitzNow the song makes more sense.Nov 20 00:31
schestowitzIsn't obesity bad over there in Edinburgh?Nov 20 00:32
PetoKrausdunno, i'm in glasgow :PNov 20 00:32
schestowitzI think I saw the states once.Nov 20 00:32
PetoKrausanyway, it's not really bad. There are nice girls here.... though sometimes you have to run away when you hear "ze fonny skotish eksent, meyt-"Nov 20 00:33
schestowitzPeople in the States judge based on state how incline people are to follow the surroundings and gain weight.Nov 20 00:33
schestowitzI like Scottish accent. Nov 20 00:33
PetoKrausi like it tooNov 20 00:34
PetoKrausbut not on that really attractive girl over there.Nov 20 00:34
PetoKrausit's fun for a guyNov 20 00:35
PetoKrausit's terrible for a female :PNov 20 00:35
PetoKrausthe second i hear "that's booolocks maaan" i am like "ewww".Nov 20 00:35
schestowitzWell, it depends.Nov 20 00:36
schestowitzAsk them not to talk. :-)Nov 20 00:36
PetoKraus:)Nov 20 00:37
PetoKrausi know how this will endNov 20 00:37
PetoKraussome girl from slovakia will come hereNov 20 00:37
PetoKrausi'll fall in loveNov 20 00:37
PetoKraus... that's how it always ends... you have to go trough half the world to marry the girl next door.Nov 20 00:38
schestowitzTalk about picky.. going by accents now?Nov 20 00:38
PetoKraus:P not reallyNov 20 00:38
PetoKrausthe main thing is the hair colour i guessNov 20 00:38
schestowitzThere's bleach.Nov 20 00:39
PetoKrausnot for meNov 20 00:39
PetoKraustar?Nov 20 00:39
schestowitzHehe. Not tar.Nov 20 00:41
PetoKraus;) nice banter. good night.Nov 20 00:42
*PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Nov 20 00:59
twitterLooky, looky, someone's got a blacklist http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/...Nov 20 01:39
twitterWhat's going on?Nov 20 01:39
schestowitz"Every police force in the UK was tonight scouring the leaked British National party membership list for names of serving officers, after the Merseyside force confirmed it was investigating one officer's links to the far-right party."Nov 20 01:39
schestowitzI can only imagine that extremism will rise as the markets decline.Nov 20 01:40
twitterI've got a list of people I'd like fired.  Can I post it on the internet and have the police arrest everyone?Nov 20 01:40
schestowitzFreedom, as ironic as it may sound, can be considered an extremism too (albeit an altruistic type)Nov 20 01:41
twitterSounds like extreme to me.Nov 20 01:41
schestowitzWhat is?Nov 20 01:41
schestowitzSee http://thebeezspeaks.blogspot.com/20...Nov 20 01:42
twitterArresting people for thoughtcrime.Nov 20 01:42
schestowitzmaybe they watched Minority R3p0rt for INSPIR~1Nov 20 01:43
twitterThese people can run for office but not be on the police force?Nov 20 01:43
twitter 13,000 names !Nov 20 01:44
twitterMy name is common, so I'm always stopped by the TSA.  I wonder if I'm also a member of this goofey BNP too.Nov 20 01:45
twitterI'm probably a Communist as well.Nov 20 01:45
schestowitztwitter is a common nameNov 20 01:46
schestowitzit's also a site nameNov 20 01:46
twitter at least one doctor, the odd man out.Nov 20 01:46
twitterSee?Nov 20 01:46
schestowitzThey can't trust people with pseudonyms. It arouses suspicion.Nov 20 01:47
schestowitzThis is funny: Nov 20 01:47
schestowitzhttp://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...Nov 20 01:47
twitter John Page was on the list.  How many John Pages are there now worried for their job?Nov 20 01:47
schestowitzMaybe they have more details. The name needn't be primary key in the DBNov 20 01:49
twitterI'm just sick of lists.Nov 20 01:49
schestowitzSoon they'll 'label' us with national ID... kind of like cows.Nov 20 01:50
schestowitzIf you want to 'piss off' surveillance (assuming you have any), set up VPN overseas and always use the cash machine for spendings. Big and rare withdrawals are best.Nov 20 01:51
twitterOnce you make these lists, they are abused.Nov 20 01:51
schestowitzhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/n...Nov 20 01:51
twitterIt's easy to start out with nasties like BNP, which sounds like some kind of neo nazi group, but they you end up with lists of "terrorists" opposed to the death penalty.Nov 20 01:52
twitterIt's a waste of public money to make lists of people who have not committed any crime.Nov 20 01:52
twitterSoon the lists are used to harass political opposition of any kind.  Then the rulers can be as extreme as their loony imaginations will allow.Nov 20 01:54
twitterI saw the robot guy and the trash story.Nov 20 01:55
schestowitzPeople of Iceland Nov 20 01:57
schestowitzThey used laws passed to handle terrorist to quiet down and send opposition to 'exile'Nov 20 01:57
schestowitzI saw another example earlier today. I can't recall what it was.Nov 20 01:58
twittergot link?Nov 20 01:58
schestowitzNo, I can't remember.Nov 20 01:58
schestowitzGood feed on the topic of national harvesting: http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/...Nov 20 01:59
twitterHere's an interesting story about Iceland.  http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/11/17/...Nov 20 01:59
twitter"Big fish eat the little fish, little fish got to be fast.  That's the law of the fish, baby.  You got to move your ass" - The Radiators.Nov 20 02:00
schestowitzYes, I know (  Britain, like Iceland, in big trouble )Nov 20 02:00
twitterUK ate Iceland.  Who will eat the UK?Nov 20 02:00
schestowitzHow empires have fallen.Nov 20 02:01
schestowitzChina?Nov 20 02:01
schestowitzIt's growing like mad. I fear not. :-)Nov 20 02:01
twitterCould be.  They were about to eat GM!Nov 20 02:01
schestowitzI had a Chinese g/f. They are nice people.Nov 20 02:01
twitterEveryone is nice.  That's why bad government is always a crime.Nov 20 02:02
schestowitzYes.Nov 20 02:02
schestowitzEvil comes from infinite greedNov 20 02:02
schestowitzPower corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.Nov 20 02:02
twitterOh my.  3x GDP, 7x GDP.  There's not much difference in practice.Nov 20 02:03
schestowitz"Put simply, Britain has an air of Iceland about it. The tiny island state was brought down when foreigners lost trust in the government's ability to bail out a banking system with massive foreign currency debt at a time when the country was also running a huge trade deficit. After foreigners refused to finance its banks, they went bust and the currency sank like a lead balloon."Nov 20 02:05
schestowitzIt's a good thing all my money (almost) is in USDNov 20 02:05
twitterThere will still be no fish for you http://www.fishupdate.com/news/fullstory.php/aid/1...Nov 20 02:11
schestowitz"He told Fishupdate in a statement: 'We have been going through difficulties in Iceland because of the freezing order on all transfers of all payments the British government issued on October 8. Icelanders are shocked, sad and angry that the British Government used their Terrorist Act to force this order."Nov 20 02:15
schestowitzThe press it still too mquiet on this.Nov 20 02:15
schestowitzEither they (press) understate the threat or people overstate it. Maybe the truth is somewhere in between but govts' don't want to incite panic.Nov 20 02:16
schestowitzThat too is distateful because it they lead people to thinking that next year will be better, then people will run out of money around Xmas (shopping) and then be jammed.Nov 20 02:16
twitterIceland has a real currency crisis.  They can't buy anything with it.Nov 20 02:19
twitterHere's a little flame from Linux that I must have slept through or ignored http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/community_...Nov 20 02:20
schestowitzI saw that and posted it this morning or yesterday.Nov 20 02:21
schestowitz[H]omer posted a good reply to it.Nov 20 02:21
schestowitzI'll post it here because it's good.Nov 20 02:21
schestowitz================================= =============================Nov 20 02:22
schestowitzVerily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz> Unjustifiable Criticism of Richard Stallman by Linus TorvaldsNov 20 02:22
schestowitz[quote]Nov 20 02:22
schestowitzThe reason has always been that I don't like single-issue people, nor doNov 20 02:22
schestowitzI think that people who turn the world into black and white are veryNov 20 02:22
schestowitznice or ultimately very useful.Nov 20 02:22
schestowitz[quote]Nov 20 02:22
schestowitzhttp://torvalds-family.blogspot...Nov 20 02:22
schestowitzI assume he's advocating apathy, rather than outright support forNov 20 02:22
schestowitzgangsters like Microsoft. The problem, or rather one of many problems,Nov 20 02:22
schestowitzwith Torvalds analysis, is it ignores the possibility that sometimes anNov 20 02:22
schestowitzissue is "black and white". If Torvalds stopped preening in the mirrorNov 20 02:22
schestowitzlong enough to take a look around, he'd see the full scale of the threatNov 20 02:22
schestowitzMicrosoft poses, not just against Linux, but in a much wider contextNov 20 02:22
schestowitztoo. The fact that Torvalds is disinterested in Microsoft's unethicalNov 20 02:22
schestowitzbehaviour, particularly when it's directed towards the community ofNov 20 02:22
schestowitzwhich he is supposedly a central part, should not mean that othersNov 20 02:22
schestowitzaren't justified in being outraged about such behaviour.Nov 20 02:22
schestowitzFor example, I wonder if Torvalds finds any ambiguity in Microsoft'sNov 20 02:22
schestowitzbribery of Nigerian education suppliers, to backtrack on a finalisedNov 20 02:22
schestowitzagreement to provide Mandriva to Nigerian schools (later overturned dueNov 20 02:22
schestowitzto public exposure and the subsequent backlash)?Nov 20 02:22
schestowitzIs there anything less than crystal-clear about Microsoft attempting toNov 20 02:22
schestowitzbribe Swedish ISO delegates to vote for OOXML at the BRM for DIS29500?Nov 20 02:22
schestowitzWhat is not "black and white" about Ballmer making unfounded allegationsNov 20 02:22
schestowitzof "undisclosed balance sheet liabilities", and claiming that "Linux isNov 20 02:22
schestowitza cancer"?Nov 20 02:22
schestowitzPresumably Torvald's reaction to this thuggish behaviour is "MicrosoftNov 20 02:22
schestowitzain't so bad".Nov 20 02:22
schestowitzIs he blind; delusional or just as maliciously motivated as the RedmondNov 20 02:22
schestowitzgangsters who he thinks it's wrong to criticise?Nov 20 02:22
schestowitzI don't know about our Finnish friend, but if someone attacks me (or theNov 20 02:22
schestowitzcommunity I'm a part of), I tend to fight back, rather than bend overNov 20 02:22
schestowitzand grab my ankles whilst condemning those who stand up for what's rNov 20 02:22
schestowitzand grab my ankles whilst condemning those who stand up for what's right.Nov 20 02:22
schestowitzTorvalds is rapidly shaping up to be the next Jörg Schilling, or aNov 20 02:22
schestowitzslightly less productive version of him, anyway. Maybe it's time theNov 20 02:22
schestowitzFree Software community redirected its efforts towards the Hurd, thenNov 20 02:22
schestowitzTorvalds can go play in the corner with "his" kernel, while the rest ofNov 20 02:22
schestowitzus do what's in the best interest of the whole community - protectingNov 20 02:22
schestowitzthat community and its software from unambiguously vicious predatorsNov 20 02:22
schestowitzlike Microsoft.Nov 20 02:22
twitterYeah, I need to install hurd on at least one machine.Nov 20 02:23
twitterIt would be better still to ignore pronouncements like that from Linux.  It's clear he's had his head in the sand, probably from all the good work he's been doing.Nov 20 02:25
twitterBusy people don't have time to figure a lot of things out.Nov 20 02:26
schestowitzHe'll hopefully change his mind.Nov 20 02:27
schestowitzHe doesn't understand.Nov 20 02:27
schestowitzIt took RMS a while to give up on Novell too.Nov 20 02:27
schestowitzI corresponded with him quite a bit recently and the coin dropped when the folks from India took action.Nov 20 02:27
twitterHere's something nice, http://news.softpedia.com/news/Softped...Nov 20 02:28
twitterThey have been getting more and more commercial, however.  I wish they made getting their latest distro easier.Nov 20 02:30
schestowitz[H]omer produced a good demo.Nov 20 02:31
schestowitzLet me find it...Nov 20 02:31
schestowitzDown at the bottom here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/... (also as Ogg)Nov 20 02:31
twitterI played with their CD a couple of years ago.  It did not upgrade well.Nov 20 02:32
twitterIt's nifty on CD, not so great after install and broken when updating.Nov 20 02:33
twitterI'm hoping E17 gets pagers and other goodness like E16.Nov 20 02:33
twitterGiven a stable job, that would be something fun for me to work on.Nov 20 02:34
twitterMuch more interesting than Hurd.Nov 20 02:34
twitterSam produces and ouch, " In effect, this itself shows a weakness in Novell's sales strategy - the company cannot, on its own, identify likely GNU/Linux users. It cannot convince people to switch. Red Hat has to do the hard work and then Novell tries to sneak its way in."Nov 20 02:39
twitterhttp://www.itwire.com/content/view/21690/1090/Nov 20 02:39
schestowitzNovell is a Microsoft subsidiaryNov 20 02:45
schestowitzPeople must stop thinking of Novell as 'on our side'Nov 20 02:46
schestowitzNovell's revenue comes from Microsoft, not from selling GNU/Linux services.Nov 20 02:46
schestowitzMicrosoft feeds its 'Novell' Division, that's just how it works.Nov 20 02:46
schestowitz'Novell' Division is a competitor to GNU/Linux (Red Hat, Ubuntu, etc.)Nov 20 02:46
josei saw a vmware commercial about running linux on top and this came to mind (again)Nov 20 02:57
schestowitz /Which/ Linux?Nov 20 02:57
schestowitzMicrosoft's? :-)Nov 20 02:58
josesorry...Nov 20 02:58
joserunning windows on top of linuxNov 20 02:58
schestowitzThat's how it's done, but Microsoft wants to reverse thisNov 20 02:58
jose..what came to mind.Nov 20 02:58
schestowitzAnd it only runs SUSE properly under WindowsNov 20 02:58
schestowitzHype-ViperNov 20 02:58
josewas that vmware would transfer tech to microsoftNov 20 02:58
joseleaving an empty shell company behind with bitrottingNov 20 02:59
schestowitzHuh?Nov 20 02:59
joseit's just something to watch for..Nov 20 02:59
jose..whyNov 20 02:59
schestowitzWell, VMware *is* seemingly hijacked by MSNov 20 02:59
schestowitzLike yahooNov 20 02:59
josesay thisNov 20 02:59
schestowitzVMware is now run by Microsoft... the CEONov 20 02:59
josebecause of the ceo and pressures that might lead them to strike deals with msNov 20 02:59
josevmware stock was very high not long agoNov 20 02:59
schestowitzYes, they already did thatNov 20 03:00
schestowitz.I wrote about this in BNNov 20 03:00
josethis means that shares were probably dumped on the publicNov 20 03:00
schestowitzTucci and Maritz tossed out the heart of VMwareNov 20 03:00
schestowitzIt's like a father sacrificing his virgin kid for some crook he knocksNov 20 03:00
josei read about engineers/execs getting tossed outNov 20 03:01
schestowitzCheck the BN archives. It makes me angry to see what MS does to VMwareNov 20 03:01
joseis that what you mean or do you mean code?Nov 20 03:01
schestowitzwhich engineers?Nov 20 03:01
joseexecs?Nov 20 03:01
schestowitzI know the technical chief or something is out too.Nov 20 03:01
joseyeahNov 20 03:01
schestowitzFounders ar both out.Nov 20 03:01
joseis that what you meant by the virgin childNov 20 03:01
joseokNov 20 03:01
schestowitzGreene and Mendelbaum/son (IIRC)Nov 20 03:01
schestowitzThat would be TuccoNov 20 03:02
josewell, they went public and the "public" may have swallowed the stockNov 20 03:02
schestowitzTucciNov 20 03:02
schestowitzEMC owns most of VMwareNov 20 03:02
schestowitzEMC is also Microsoft's partner of the year 2008Nov 20 03:02
josethe incentive to keep vmware alive and competitive would disappear..Nov 20 03:02
schestowitzPut 2 and 2 together.Nov 20 03:02
joseespecially with tough competition from linux and perhaps a sweet deal from msNov 20 03:02
schestowitzThen they had Maritz join EMCNov 20 03:02
josesweet to whoever got inNov 20 03:02
schestowitzTwo months or so later they give VMware's CEO the bootNov 20 03:02
joseand the ceo, yesNov 20 03:03
schestowitzThey did this in a nasty way, NYT told the storyNov 20 03:03
schestowitzThen they put Microsoft's soul in chargeNov 20 03:03
schestowitzThen... VMware signed deals with MSNov 20 03:03
joseok, it went through emc.. i had forgottenNov 20 03:03
schestowitzIt was fresher in my mind when I wrote about it (with many refsNov 20 03:03
josestill though the stock soaredNov 20 03:04
schestowitzSoared? When?Nov 20 03:04
schestowitzAfter IPO.Nov 20 03:04
josesaw an ad.. i know it's a bit "off topic" for the seasonNov 20 03:04
josesoared may not be the right word but their p/e was very high and you know what is comingNov 20 03:05
josei don't know what is coming for everyone but i would think vmw still has lots of room downwardNov 20 03:06
joseok, well was a though. thanks for the quick refresh.. also, the ad was for running a windows partition which is not a bad thing...Nov 20 03:07
joseyou should be more tired than me at this time.. but maybe notNov 20 03:07
josejust checked.. vmw was hitting over 110 for a while a year ago.. now at less than a fifth of thatNov 20 03:09
schestowitzYes, KVM harms them too.Nov 20 03:09
schestowitzThe thing about software is that bundling costs nothing.Nov 20 03:09
schestowitzVMware should have based its business model on services, just like Free software.Nov 20 03:10
josewith what you posted, i couldn't help but think that they would empty out the company in some way .. in ms' direction apparentlyNov 20 03:10
schestowitzSeparability of components remains for some regulators to decide on.Nov 20 03:10
schestowitzAnother issue is that VMW was going to sue Microsoft (2006/7 article), but with Maritz in charge, forget about it.Nov 20 03:10
josethat lawsuit may have been a trading chipNov 20 03:11
schestowitzThat '"scum" (if I may respond angrily) wanted to "cut the air supply" of Netscape and stood up there for antitrustNov 20 03:11
schestowitzIn my eyes, Maritz stays a criminal. It's called white-collar crime.Nov 20 03:11
schestowitzAnd I don't care about journos talking about "how nice he is".Nov 20 03:11
josei prefer not to take too hard a stance on any single item..Nov 20 03:12
schestowitzWhat do you mean?Nov 20 03:12
josei don't like doing business like that but it is acceptable to manyNov 20 03:12
schestowitzIt shouldn't be.Nov 20 03:12
schestowitzThere needs to be a law against it.Nov 20 03:13
schestowitzAND enforcement tooNov 20 03:13
jose"cut off air supply" can mean many things .."healthy competition"Nov 20 03:13
josethe totality is at least a bit sickeningNov 20 03:13
schestowitzWatch Intel bribing everyone in the world to  "cut off air supply" of AMD (i.e. to end competition)Nov 20 03:13
joseand the threat is real.. competition or noNov 20 03:13
schestowitzThat's just communismNov 20 03:13
schestowitzIntel is h/w communismNov 20 03:13
schestowitzThat's not even capitalistic.Nov 20 03:13
josecut off air supply is something people might associate with a competitive gameNov 20 03:14
schestowitz"An Intel on every desk".Nov 20 03:14
schestowitz"At the price Intel names"Nov 20 03:14
schestowitzCollusions with Microsoft required.Nov 20 03:14
schestowitzTo fix the prices.Nov 20 03:14
joseit's when you add everything up and see reall people affected that it becomes something more seriousNov 20 03:14
josei say this because not everyone will be shocked by ms actions especially taken in isolation for with context removedNov 20 03:15
josei like how you hit quotes and things over and over.. i think that is helpfulNov 20 03:16
schestowitzFor new reader it might be.Nov 20 03:16
josemaybe it is easy for me to try and maintain balance here because you are so passionate.Nov 20 03:16
schestowitzThe "air supply" thing need to be brought to alignment with the "Evangelism is WAR" leakNov 20 03:16
joseair supply will have an effect on competitors at a certain levelNov 20 03:17
josebut not on partners or customers as muchNov 20 03:17
josein fact the evangelism "leak" had a number of things that though upset me, i can see actually ms thinking it might help them.. at least in some circles.. at least with the context removedNov 20 03:18
josepeople need to see how they are hurt in order to see some of this sometimes.. it's not always clearNov 20 03:18
josei was impressed and surprised by the responses on groklaw on the patent topicNov 20 03:20
josei posted my share alright but there were some very good reads.. some very clear and making effective pointsNov 20 03:21
josei am on the optimistic side that major ground was won in the patent warNov 20 03:21
josebut we have to keep pushing. things are still too much in the air.. americans need to make sure congress doesn't try to muck things up.. rather than go further to safeguard softwareNov 20 03:22
josei know.. i guess this was a us thing mostlyNov 20 03:22
joseU.S. of ANov 20 03:22
schestowitzChina is the next superpowerNov 20 03:23
*schestowitz was distracted writing this: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/19/... (multi-tasking)Nov 20 03:23
josechina has an internal mess in some quarters from what i hearNov 20 03:23
schestowitzGot URLs?Nov 20 03:24
joseenvironmental.. food..Nov 20 03:29
joseprob other issues as well that i don't recallNov 20 03:29
joseback to the vmware for a secNov 20 03:29
josethat would run under linux (i forgot).Nov 20 03:29
joseusing vmware instead of kvm or something else ... could help microsoft if they have close tiesNov 20 03:30
joses/could/wouldNov 20 03:30
schestowitzYesNov 20 03:37
schestowitzNovell can be used here tooNov 20 03:37
schestowitzNovell has arrangements with VMware since 2 months or so ago.. nothing major.Nov 20 03:38
josevmware can serve as the closed source trojanNov 20 03:40
josewell.. another closed source trojanNov 20 03:40
josespecial hooks for paying customersNov 20 03:40
josespecial effects.. etc.Nov 20 03:40
joseless deterioration.. etcNov 20 03:40
schestowitzThat's what Hyper-V does with SUSE... against GNU/LinuxNov 20 03:41
schestowitzMicrosoft SUSE.. MS-USENov 20 03:41
jose:-)Nov 20 03:41
schestowitzMaybe we should make that a labelNov 20 03:42
schestowitzLike Vista 7Nov 20 03:42
josegood labelNov 20 03:42
josequick before someone trademarks itNov 20 03:42
josemisuseNov 20 03:42
josems usesNov 20 03:42
schestowitzOK, I'll try it for a while.Nov 20 03:42
josems suseNov 20 03:42
joseetcNov 20 03:42
schestowitzMS-uSENov 20 03:42
joseno all caps is goodNov 20 03:43
josebecause it leaves more options as equal partnersNov 20 03:43
schestowitzBut it's less obvious that it's S.u.S.E.Nov 20 03:43
joselike misuseNov 20 03:43
josenot on BNNov 20 03:43
josemaybe elsewhereNov 20 03:43
jose?Nov 20 03:43
schestowitzSUENET?Nov 20 03:43
schestowitzThere's Ballnux already.Nov 20 03:43
schestowitzGoogle for 'ballnux' and you'll se.Nov 20 03:44
josethat one sounds nasty.. it works for meNov 20 03:44
joseballnuxNov 20 03:44
josethe suenet.. but not as a replacement for ms useNov 20 03:44
joseMS-USE was fine.. maybe play around with itNov 20 03:44
josefor a whileNov 20 03:45
joseto see what catches onNov 20 03:45
josesuenet is foreign.. can be about anything.. the connection is missingNov 20 03:45
schestowitzOr SUE LinuxNov 20 03:46
josethere is ABUSE and then there is MS-USENov 20 03:46
schestowitzI made this typos accidentally before.Nov 20 03:46
schestowitz*typoNov 20 03:46
josePATENT IT QUICKNov 20 03:46
joseaccidents are great for patentingNov 20 03:47
schestowitzShane built SueMe Linux, which was Slax-basedNov 20 03:47
joseit's the full slap in the face and moreNov 20 03:47
schestowitzI ought to get some sleep now. It's 4 AM.Nov 20 03:47
schestowitzCatch you later.Nov 20 03:47
joseyupNov 20 03:47
joseme tooNov 20 03:47
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 20 09:24:24 2008
*Now talking on #boycottnovellNov 20 09:24
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: "Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications" [publicly logged]Nov 20 09:24
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sun Oct 5 19:20:28 2008Nov 20 09:24
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelNov 20 09:24
-NickServ-You are now identified for schestowitz.Nov 20 09:24
*services. sets mode +e schestowitzNov 20 09:24
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzNov 20 09:24
*#boycottnovell :[freenode-info] help freenode weed out clonebots, please register your IRC nick and auto-identify: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetupNov 20 09:24
schestowitzWhy is Novelll referred to as an "open source" company? http://ostatic.com/177042-blog/how-low-... And SUN??????Nov 20 09:31
PetoKrausstill awaken? :)Nov 20 09:32
MinceRgeekingsNov 20 09:34
schestowitzPetoKraus: I slept for 4.5 hoursNov 20 09:35
schestowitzCouldn't do longer. Sometimes my body's just like that. Rare though...Nov 20 09:36
schestowitzHere's something to help (GPLv2): Sun commits to JavaFX despite uncertainty < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/... >Nov 20 09:38
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/20/bar... "The failure of Obama's webmasters to follow anything remotely like best practices is more than a little troubling because it suggests they don't fully grasp the security realities of living in a Web 2.0 world."Nov 20 09:40
PetoKrausschestowitz: is your page down, or...?Nov 20 09:45
schestowitzYou too?Nov 20 09:45
schestowitzI can reach it from the validator.Nov 20 09:45
schestowitzBut I can't access the site from here, so I know the server is up. I was gonna ask to see if it was JANET.Nov 20 09:46
*maxstirner (n=maxstirn@p508A0A0F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #boycottnovellNov 20 09:54
maxstirnermorning. site is down?Nov 20 09:54
PetoKraussite, dns, or somethingNov 20 09:55
maxstirneri see..Nov 20 09:57
schestowitz"As quite a few folks have sent in, it appears that the always funny team of folks who made up Monty Python actually seem to get the concept of giving away infinite goods to increase the value of scarce goods. They've set up a Monty Python channel on YouTube, where they'll be putting up pretty much all of their videos in high quality. " ( Monty Python Puts All Its Content On YouTube To Increase Sales Of Scarce Goods )Nov 20 09:58
maxstirnerniceNov 20 09:59
schestowitzmaxstirner: it worked momentarily this morning, then become unavailable againNov 20 09:59
PetoKrausschestowitz: just read about thatNov 20 09:59
maxstirneron the anniversary of the sellout as well ;)Nov 20 09:59
PetoKrausit's not all content, it's selected content so farNov 20 09:59
schestowitzNot a DNS issue.Nov 20 09:59
schestowitz┌─(roy@localhost Thu, 20 Nov 08)─——————————————— ——————————— ——─(/home/roy)────┐Nov 20 09:59
schestowitz└─(09:59 $)─> wget boycottnovell.comNov 20 09:59
schestowitz--2008-11-20 09:59:24--  http://boycottnovell.com/Nov 20 09:59
schestowitzResolving boycottnovell.com... 72.29.75.151Nov 20 09:59
schestowitzConnecting to boycottnovell.com|72.29.75.151|:80...Nov 20 09:59
schestowitz┌─(roy@localhost Thu, 20 Nov 08)─————————— ——————————————— ————─(/home/roy)────┐Nov 20 09:59
schestowitz└─(09:59 $)─> ping boycottnovell.comNov 20 09:59
schestowitzPING boycottnovell.com (72.29.75.151) 56(84) bytes of data.Nov 20 09:59
PetoKrausuhNov 20 10:00
schestowitzVideo here: http://techdirt.com/articles/20081119/0...Nov 20 10:00
schestowitzThe server is definitely up and running: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=htt...Nov 20 10:01
schestowitzAlthough the IRC logs cause the FP not to validateNov 20 10:02
schestowitzPING boycottnovell.com (72.29.75.151) 56(84) bytes of data.Nov 20 10:08
schestowitzFrom 72.29.88.33 icmp_seq=447 Time to live exceededNov 20 10:08
schestowitzFrom if-4-1-0-463.mcore3.LDN-London.as6453.net (195.219.195.37) icmp_seq=448 Time to live exceededNov 20 10:08
schestowitzFrom if-4-1-0-463.mcore3.LDN-London.as6453.net (195.219.195.37) icmp_seq=449 Time to live exceededNov 20 10:08
schestowitzFrom if-4-1-0-463.mcore3.LDN-London.as6453.net (195.219.195.37) icmp_seq=450 Time to live exceededNov 20 10:08
schestowitzFrom if-4-1-0-463.mcore3.LDN-London.as6453.net (195.219.195.37) icmp_seq=451 Time to live exceededNov 20 10:08
PetoKrausthat obama article is niceNov 20 10:08
*Omar87 (n=omar@79.173.254.136) has joined #boycottnovellNov 20 10:16
Omar87schestowitz: Hey buddy, what's wrong with the website?Nov 20 10:17
schestowitzYou too?Nov 20 10:17
schestowitzI don't know. The server is up. maxstirner, can you get to BN?Nov 20 10:17
Omar87schestowitz: A D.O.S attack by Microsoft??Nov 20 10:17
schestowitzHehe. No.Nov 20 10:18
Omar87hehehe :DNov 20 10:18
Omar87What's wrong?Nov 20 10:18
maxstirnerschestowitz: couldnt earlier, cant nowNov 20 10:18
Omar87schestowitz: hmm??Nov 20 10:18
maxstirnerdomain doesnt resolve.. doesnt ping.. ip from rdns doesnt ping..Nov 20 10:18
Omar87Weird..Nov 20 10:18
schestowitzHehe.Nov 20 10:19
schestowitzOne must wonder if someone 'pulled a Wikileaks'Nov 20 10:19
Omar87Wikileaks?Nov 20 10:19
schestowitzOh. Got itNov 20 10:19
schestowitzping boycottnovell.comNov 20 10:19
schestowitzPING boycottnovell.com (72.29.75.151) 56(84) bytes of data.Nov 20 10:19
schestowitz64 bytes from pass3.dizinc.com (72.29.75.151): icmp_seq=465 ttl=48 time=105 msNov 20 10:19
schestowitz64 bytes from pass3.dizinc.com (72.29.75.151): icmp_seq=466 ttl=48 time=105 msNov 20 10:19
schestowitz64 bytes from pass3.dizinc.com (72.29.75.151): icmp_seq=467 ttl=48 time=105 msNov 20 10:19
schestowitz64 bytes from pass3.dizinc.com (72.29.75.151): icmp_seq=468 ttl=48 time=105 msNov 20 10:19
schestowitz64 bytes from pass3.dizinc.com (72.29.75.151): icmp_seq=469 ttl=48 time=106 msNov 20 10:19
schestowitz64 bytes from pass3.dizinc.com (72.29.75.151): icmp_seq=470 ttl=48 time=105 msNov 20 10:19
schestowitz64 bytes from pass3.dizinc.com (72.29.75.151): icmp_seq=471 ttl=48 time=105 msNov 20 10:19
schestowitz64 bytes from pass3.dizinc.com (72.29.75.151): icmp_seq=472 ttl=48 time=105 msNov 20 10:19
schestowitz64 bytes from pass3.dizinc.com (72.29.75.151): icmp_seq=473 ttl=48 time=105 msNov 20 10:19
schestowitz64 bytes from pass3.dizinc.com (72.29.75.151): icmp_seq=474 ttl=48 time=105 msNov 20 10:19
schestowitzhttp://www.blacksunjournal.com/current-affairs/125...Nov 20 10:20
Omar87lol, I've opened a blog a couple of days ago, still wondering what to write in it.. lol. ? :)Nov 20 10:21
maxstirnerits back nowNov 20 10:28
schestowitzSite's backNov 20 10:28
schestowitzVery weirdNov 20 10:28
maxstirnerfollowing all the silverlight pr, its good to have it up just nowNov 20 10:28
schestowitzIf only I knew the causeNov 20 10:28
schestowitzmaxstirner:/ Omar87  / PetoKraus: what time did you first notice downtime?Nov 20 10:28
PetoKrauswhen i woke up and my rss didn't refreshNov 20 10:29
PetoKraus9:01Nov 20 10:29
maxstirner0930 gmt approx? was just gonna look up your reaction to that silverlight PR stuff .. got some conspiracy theories going right awayNov 20 10:29
Omar87Omar87: Minutes ago.Nov 20 10:31
PetoKraus:DNov 20 10:32
schestowitzLots of Novell/Opensuse employees/people seem to be attacking BN now.Nov 20 10:36
schestowitzAll those ugly comments from last night... many come from German IPsNov 20 10:36
maxstirnercomments where? on BN?Nov 20 10:36
schestowitzYes, just attacks.Nov 20 10:36
schestowitzWe have over 20,000 pageviews a day, but the comments only come from those who can't keep their mouth shut. *sigh*Nov 20 10:37
Omar87Can you show me some of them?Nov 20 10:40
schestowitzHave a look at the front page. Some of them are Slashdot astroturfers whom came to BN to stalk twitter.Nov 20 10:43
schestowitzOf course, needless to say, they'll deny it.Nov 20 10:44
maxstirnerits just due to the attention re: silverlight and 2-year anniversary atm, consider irritating them to such a degree an indicator of your success :DNov 20 10:44
schestowitzThey don't do well.Nov 20 10:44
schestowitzThey started talking about Silverlight 3Nov 20 10:44
schestowitzI kid you not. I see it in headline.Nov 20 10:44
schestowitzVapourware all over again... is Novell still in some semi-cooked 1.0 area....? Strategy: help XAML more widespread (fool Web devs into thinking it's cross-platform) and see GNU/Linux "not working" with the Web.Nov 20 10:45
Omar87schestowitz: I can't believe there are still people out there who still believe that Red Hat is taking control of FOSS and OSS.. -_-Nov 20 11:03
schestowitzTaking control? No, the code is all out there. Centos, StartCom Xos, Unbreakable...Nov 20 11:04
schestowitzIt's Novell that uses patents to poison and stifle use, impeding sharingNov 20 11:04
schestowitzGood luck getting the code for SLES. You must be a Novell customer to gain access to it. BN wrote about this before.Nov 20 11:05
Omar87schestowitz: Exactly! :)Nov 20 11:05
schestowitzThere are no SUSE forks. NONE.Nov 20 11:06
schestowitzRed Hat? There are so manyNov 20 11:06
schestowitz /forks/rebranding/Nov 20 11:06
Omar87schestowitz: But I think the source code for OpenSuse is attainable, or is it?Nov 20 11:06
schestowitzYes, but not SLES/D. Not unless you just through hoops and probably payNov 20 11:07
Omar87mhmmNov 20 11:07
schestowitzI wonder what the FSF would sayNov 20 11:07
schestowitzThey could use that against NovellNov 20 11:07
Omar87schestowitz: Actually, I wonder how come we never hear anything from RMS and about that.. ?Nov 20 11:08
schestowitzNovell would insist it's in compliance with the GPL.Nov 20 11:08
schestowitzOmar87: that may change soon. He tries not to stip up trouble.Nov 20 11:08
schestowitz*stirNov 20 11:08
Omar87schestowitz: Who are they fooling? :DNov 20 11:09
schestowitzBlue collar typosNov 20 11:09
schestowitzNot developersNov 20 11:10
Omar87schestowitz: If people at Novell are a bunch of idiots, this doesn't necessarily mean that everyone else out there is, right? :)Nov 20 11:10
schestowitzI sometimes wonder if staff at Novell will defect. In difficult times people don't hop off boardNov 20 11:11
Omar87schestowitz: this is just ridiculous, all the links, quotes, images, and reports you keep adding to each and everyone of your posts, and the lady still says what you say is so unsupported?? 0_oNov 20 11:14
schestowitzHeh.Nov 20 11:15
schestowitzSomeone got this headline too early: http://www.fsdaily.com/Opposition/Microsoft_Insults_t... (before it was corrected)Nov 20 11:15
schestowitzIt still says Jordan (Amman)Nov 20 11:16
schestowitzOmar87: I have a huge post on Mono coming. It's getting hard for the deniers to go on, so they attack messengers now. They don't like being presented the truth, so they want to suppress it.Nov 20 11:16
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kentmadenier's a great word:  roman coin, thickness of silk, and someone who disputes the validity of established fact...  what a great combination :-)Nov 20 11:55
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anivarschestowitz:  some among deleted videos are recoveredNov 20 12:23
anivarit is in my blogNov 20 12:23
schestowitzCool.Nov 20 12:23
schestowitzWill you put them up?Nov 20 12:23
schestowitzOh, wait.Nov 20 12:23
anivarhttp://anivar.movingrepublic.org/2008...Nov 20 12:24
schestowitzCan I make ogg from these? Please?Nov 20 12:24
schestowitzIs that all of them?Nov 20 12:25
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_douginteresting msg seen on a website ..Nov 20 12:41
_dougIn order to view comments on ***.*** you need to enable JavaScript.Nov 20 12:41
_dougIf you are using Firefox and NoScript addon, please mark ***.*** as trusted.Nov 20 12:41
schestowitz:-)Nov 20 12:42
schestowitzThey got complaints from people who don't like Web spywareNov 20 12:42
schestowitzThe Web devolved into a probing machine analysing people's thoughts and habits. It's amazing what happens behind the scenes.Nov 20 12:43
schestowitzGoogle knows everyone's preferred screen resolution, home address, office address, etc.Nov 20 12:43
_douganother free advert for MS on slashdot ..Nov 20 12:50
_doughttp://tech.slashdot.org/te...Nov 20 12:50
_doug:)Nov 20 12:50
schestowitzWell, MS is a sponsor at /., so they have to be "fair".Nov 20 12:50
_dougbringing viruses to the HPC sector .. :0Nov 20 12:52
schestowitzheh.Nov 20 12:55
schestowitzIt seems as though the editor of Linux Today reads BN.Nov 20 12:56
schestowitz_doug: listen... about HPC...Nov 20 12:56
schestowitzHere at the University of Manchester I've seen how Microsoft approaches this.Nov 20 12:56
schestowitzBe NOT surprised if Microsoft paid someone to experiment with Windows just to crow about it ('case study').Nov 20 12:57
schestowitzThey do a lot of the same stuff with Silverlight, e.g. bribing the Lib. of Congress $millions to put Silverlight in people's faces.Nov 20 12:57
schestowitzI've put more examples here, in case anyone asks about it (or asks for proof of it being a PATTERN): http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/...Nov 20 12:58
_dougfree adverts pretending to be 'studies' or tech news ..Nov 20 13:00
_doug"the deepest of pockets, unlimited ambition, and they are willing to lose money for years and years just to make sure that you don’t make any money, either"Nov 20 13:00
schestowitzPrepare for MS to turn Yahoo into a 'subsidiary', like NOVL:  http://www.pcworld.com/article/154177/...Nov 20 13:01
_dougI do believe that sentiment motovates most evangelism, it's not about promoting the $product, it's about prefenting the other fella getting into the space ..Nov 20 13:01
schestowitz_doug: that's Cringely.Nov 20 13:02
_dougCringely: well, he's right ain't he ?Nov 20 13:04
schestowitzBear in mind that the advert came from IDC (IDG being a subsidy)... Microsoft 'buddies'Nov 20 13:04
_doug"Robert X. Cringely is the pen name of both technology journalist Mark Stephens and a string of writers for a column in InfoWorld"Nov 20 13:05
schestowitzYupNov 20 13:05
schestowitzI spoke to the real oneNov 20 13:05
_doug"Internet Café Invaded by Linux Desktop"Nov 20 13:06
_doughttp://www.junauza.com/2008/11/internet-caf...Nov 20 13:06
schestowitzHe knows the dirty stuffNov 20 13:06
maxstirnerfarmingNov 20 13:06
schestowitzHe hopefully gave no addressNov 20 13:06
maxstirnersorry wrong window ;)Nov 20 13:06
schestowitzMicrosoft will tak e em to the back and offer WincentivesNov 20 13:07
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*lucian is now known as seller_liarNov 20 13:26
_dougseller_liar: what does that mean ?Nov 20 13:32
seller_liarwhat?Nov 20 13:32
schestowitz_doug: that's his regular name.Nov 20 13:32
schestowitzhttp://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2... < Windows 7 doomed by economic outlook >Nov 20 13:35
_dougwhat deos it mean ?Nov 20 13:36
_dougdoes ..Nov 20 13:36
schestowitzI don't know, but seller_liar is one of the good guys.Nov 20 13:36
schestowitzThe name is amusing.Nov 20 13:36
seller_liarheheh,the name is wrong  typed,Nov 20 13:37
seller_liarit's not a good english[Nov 20 13:37
seller_liarthat's intentionalNov 20 13:37
seller_liarbut ,I'm not a liarNov 20 13:37
seller_liarI do not sell liesNov 20 13:40
schestowitzSounds synonymous with FUDmeister.Nov 20 13:40
seller_liarWhat is FUDmeister?Nov 20 13:41
_dougA FUD meister is a practicioner of the art of injecting FUD into online discussions, under thw guise of asking innocious questions ..Nov 20 13:46
seller_liarOh, this is not intentionalNov 20 13:47
seller_liarSometimes ,I ask for simply curiosityNov 20 13:47
seller_liarBut my questions is not fudNov 20 13:48
_doughttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MeisterNov 20 13:48
seller_liarIt'only curiosity ,not flamming or trollingNov 20 13:48
_dougI never said your questions were fud, where did yoy see 'FUDmeister' ?Nov 20 13:48
trmancohow are MS shares today?Nov 20 13:49
_dougOh, I see .. schest said it .. not paying attention .. watching Youtube vids :)Nov 20 13:49
trmancohmmNov 20 13:50
trmancoFUDmeister == FUDmasterNov 20 13:50
schestowitzLet's see the markets... *shudder*Nov 20 13:51
seller_liarI will stop to asking obvious questionsNov 20 13:52
trmancomeister is a German wordNov 20 13:53
schestowitzGood news. rPath distances itself from Novell in the sense that it div ersifies.Nov 20 13:54
schestowitzhttp://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/rPat...Nov 20 13:54
schestowitzseller_liar: no accusations were made. In USENET there are FUDmesters. Many of them.Nov 20 13:54
schestowitz"My mouse doesn't work... why doesn't Linux work?"Nov 20 13:55
schestowitz"My college doesn't allow Linux, what should I do?"Nov 20 13:55
seller_liarschestowitz:ok, i got the styleNov 20 13:55
schestowitz"Why does my Lunix keep crashing?"Nov 20 13:55
schestowitzIt serves as fake testimonialsNov 20 13:56
seller_liarschestowitz: Is very hard to me criticise free softwareNov 20 13:56
seller_liarschestowitz: My of my time is criticise Linus and "open source" peopleNov 20 13:56
schestowitzFTSE is below 4000 again.Nov 20 13:57
seller_liarschestowitz: I agree 100% with free softwareNov 20 13:57
schestowitzEverything in Europe is crashing today (not a single exception)Nov 20 13:57
schestowitzseller_liar: they are our friends too, we need to criticise them less of 'educate' them (politely, not from a high horse). The minds of Microsoft are broken beyond repair. It's only reparable if they spend a lot of time learning *NIX, which scares them.Nov 20 13:59
schestowitzMost of what I know about XP and Vista is based on stuff I see in Web sites.Nov 20 13:59
seller_liarFor example ,I do not agree with monoNov 20 13:59
seller_liarBut , I agree to create a java implementation of .net , to give more power to javaNov 20 14:00
schestowitzBut I knew Win98 well (based on some use), so I can comment critically and ask hard question about Windows as well. Nov 20 14:00
seller_liarAnd not give more power to .netNov 20 14:00
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seller_liarI know about some design flaws of Free softwareNov 20 14:01
seller_liarbut It's not a intention to create FUDNov 20 14:01
seller_liarFor exampleNov 20 14:02
seller_liarI like much more PC-BSD package system than actual package system of linux distrosNov 20 14:02
seller_liarIt's not FUD, this is a simple opinion and reflectionNov 20 14:03
seller_liarBut in other wayNov 20 14:03
schestowitzBetter than getting executables from some untrusted sites.Nov 20 14:03
seller_liarI do not like BSD people because of stupid "superior" mentalityNov 20 14:03
seller_liarBut this model of PC-BSD is better suited for beginnersNov 20 14:04
seller_liarThe package loads all necessary dependencies in a single packageNov 20 14:04
trmancodoes anybody know how long it took me to install MS SQL server express on a school computer?Nov 20 14:04
seller_liarThere's no a list of packages to downloadNov 20 14:04
seller_liarAnd the user is very free to download a package from any placeNov 20 14:05
seller_liarNot only of "trusted repositories"Nov 20 14:06
seller_liarPC-BSD for example try to use a Stable APINov 20 14:06
seller_liarBut actually I'm using Kubuntu 8.10Nov 20 14:08
seller_liarSometimes I acess this IRC using windows because I'm using other machines sometimesNov 20 14:08
schestowitztrmanco: how long?Nov 20 14:09
seller_liarI have installed kubuntu yesterdayNov 20 14:09
seller_liarI'm using konversationNov 20 14:09
trmancoabout 1h:30minNov 20 14:09
schestowitzI have it on my secondary partition here.Nov 20 14:09
schestowitz[haven't booted into it for months though]Nov 20 14:09
seller_liarI hate windowsNov 20 14:10
schestowitztrmanco: that can't be true.Nov 20 14:10
seller_liarTry to use Internet exploder in slated.orgNov 20 14:10
trmancoI had to install the .Net 3.5 crap and reboot, apply some weird hotfixesNov 20 14:10
trmancoI had to turn off the anti virus thingy or else it would have taken a lot more timeNov 20 14:11
seller_liarheheh , Internet acess in Brazil is not cheapNov 20 14:11
seller_liarSome times I'm using cybercafes to access BoycottnovellNov 20 14:11
seller_liarI cannot uninstall windows of cybercafesNov 20 14:12
maxstirneryou in brazil?Nov 20 14:12
maxstirnerive seen quite a few internet cafes running ubuntu thereNov 20 14:12
seller_liarwhy max?Nov 20 14:12
maxstirnerpq eu gosto do brasil :DNov 20 14:12
seller_liarBut there are not in my cityNov 20 14:12
seller_liaronly stupid windowzNov 20 14:12
maxstirneri've seen it done, more than in europeNov 20 14:12
*Omar87 (n=omar@79.173.224.229) has joined #boycottnovellNov 20 14:13
Omar87Hi everyone?Nov 20 14:13
schestowitzHi again.Nov 20 14:13
*PetoKraus (n=pk@cpc3-broo2-0-0-cust711.renf.cable.ntl.com) has joined #boycottnovellNov 20 14:14
trmancohiNov 20 14:14
twitterhello!Nov 20 14:15
twitterI don't agree with the Inq., " Linux your time is now or never"  Free software will always be able to rise above non free.  If M$ manages to suppress it for one company, like they did with Asus, another will see a chance to make that much more money from a market which is that much larger.Nov 20 14:18
Omar87Man, if Red Hat did lock the Red Hat distro Away, then can we guaranty that Canonical won't do the same to Ubuntu one day?Nov 20 14:19
trmancoMSFT:Pre-Market: 18.12 -0.17 (-0.93%) - Nov 20, 9:28AM ESTNov 20 14:20
twitterwow, down she goes.Nov 20 14:21
schestowitzShe?Nov 20 14:21
twitterM$ is a bitch.Nov 20 14:21
schestowitzSue ballmer?Nov 20 14:21
schestowitzSUE-SE.Nov 20 14:22
twitterI'd like to sue ballmer, personally.Nov 20 14:22
schestowitzNo, I meant Susan.Nov 20 14:22
twitterjokeNov 20 14:22
trmancololNov 20 14:23
twitter52 week low is now $18.08Nov 20 14:24
twitterDoes anyone see a bottom in this thing?  Is it filled with red ink?  Splash, glug, glug, glug.Nov 20 14:25
*schestowitz searches for SCOX chartNov 20 14:25
twitterdelisted, I think.Nov 20 14:25
schestowitzYesNov 20 14:25
twitterNext....Nov 20 14:25
schestowitzBB (Big BlueNov 20 14:26
twitterhttp://finance.google.com/finan...Nov 20 14:26
twitterIBM has more going on than thatNov 20 14:26
schestowitzMS:Low: 18.08 Nov 20 14:27
schestowitzMy guess is that Asia will gain tractionNov 20 14:27
seller_liarWhy IBM is so.... milionaire?Nov 20 14:28
seller_liarIBM does not a lot of ads and publishingNov 20 14:28
seller_liarWhy IBM does for conquer so much money?Nov 20 14:29
MinceRafaik ibm does most of its business with mainframe-like stuffNov 20 14:29
seller_liarAh ,yes 15 million ONLY ONE zNov 20 14:29
MinceRthat's why they neglected their desktop-related businessNov 20 14:29
seller_liarthis is very high priceNov 20 14:29
seller_liarI do not like IBM ,is very stupid how only one company carries a lot of moneyNov 20 14:30
twitterIBM got into free software consulting, a market with a future that complements their hardware sales.Nov 20 14:31
schestowitzThey use false marketing to sell LotusNov 20 14:31
seller_liarof course linux + a 15 million z is very lucrativeNov 20 14:31
seller_liarroy , ibm ant criminal inside agrees free software because costs nothing for themNov 20 14:32
twitterThe consulting business makes money with other people's distributions and complements their heavy machinery.Nov 20 14:32
schestowitzBN in Japanese (Chinese I think...):  http://www.lupaworld.com/viewnews-118759.htmlNov 20 14:32
twitterFinally, it seems to have worked and they made some decent money.Nov 20 14:32
schestowitzThey just need to bring back the code, that's all.Nov 20 14:33
seller_liarBut criminal inside and Big Beast does not "like " the "ethical principles of freedom"Nov 20 14:33
schestowitzSome of their HPC stuff they recently opened, IIRCNov 20 14:33
schestowitzDon't let them get away with just free labour from FOSS people. They must make it reciprocal.Nov 20 14:33
schestowitzAlso, they must fight s/w patents.Nov 20 14:33
schestowitzWhich is why I'm harsh on Sutor and others... they see money, so they don't feel like changing for the better.Nov 20 14:34
schestowitzIBM, unlike Microsoft, does not FIGHT freedom.Nov 20 14:34
twitterI'm not familiar enough with what they have done to judge.  They have contributed to ODF and GNU/Linux kernel GPL, no?Nov 20 14:34
schestowitzThat's where IBM got it right all along. But Mirosoft not only attacks Freedom. It broke the law to attack everything.Nov 20 14:35
schestowitzBusiness model: destroy choices, "Evangelism is WAR" [R], smear oppositionNov 20 14:35
seller_liarIBM  only helps "linux foudation" for linux works in ZNov 20 14:35
seller_liarThere's not a true idea of ethical freedomNov 20 14:36
seller_liarIBM works for "open source"Nov 20 14:36
schestowitzLinux fundation [sic] is possibly a front for many companies, but IBM is the main one.Nov 20 14:36
schestowitzSame with OIN.Nov 20 14:36
schestowitzIntel needs them too to sell hardware.Nov 20 14:36
twitterSCO accused them of "stealing" their crap to "help" GNU Linux.  They must have contributed something to have that thrown at them.Nov 20 14:37
seller_liarLinux foundation have a lot of evil peopleNov 20 14:37
schestowitzHardware companies wishing to improve their margins...Nov 20 14:37
twitterI like the Roughly Drafted take on that.Nov 20 14:37
schestowitzLet me reread about the new head of OIN.Nov 20 14:37
twitterIt's impossible for hardware companies to sell more than commodities if they all sell Winblows.  Free software offers them a way to distinguish themselves, as Apple has done.Nov 20 14:38
schestowitzhttp://www.openinventionnetwork.com/about.php "Prior to joining the Open Invention Network, Mr. Bergelt served as president and CEO of two Hedge Funds – Paradox Capital and IPI – formed to unlock the considerable asset value of patents, trademarks and copyrights in middle market companies."Nov 20 14:39
schestowitzSo he's not an IBMer like RosenthalNov 20 14:39
twitterFor what it's worth, the market had more faith in IBM than it did in M$.  IBM actually recovered it's value from the 2000 crash and has only sunk to 1/2 the peak now.  M$ never recovered and is now trading at less than 1/3rd peak.Nov 20 14:40
schestowitzCEO of OIN: job description: push papers around.Nov 20 14:40
*seller_ (n=lucian@201-68-178-250.dsl.telesp.net.br) has joined #boycottnovellNov 20 14:40
schestowitzhttp://fsoss.senecac.on.ca/2008/?q=user/34Nov 20 14:40
schestowitzHe seems harmless. :-) Nov 20 14:41
seller_There are another seller_liarNov 20 14:41
seller_And it's not meNov 20 14:42
twitterThat's interesting.Nov 20 14:43
*seller_liar has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Nov 20 14:43
seller_This is very stupidNov 20 14:43
twitterPeople at slashdot keep telling me that everyone is twitter, but no one else has really been me yet.Nov 20 14:43
seller_Blizzard distrributes a Diablo 3 kit with docxNov 20 14:44
twitteryes, that is stupid.Nov 20 14:44
seller_Blizzard does not know about ODF and even the junk OOXMLNov 20 14:44

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