schestowitz | MSBBC sees its sponsor/sugar daddy losing it: "down 11% on last year and less than analysts' expectations." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/busi... | Jan 23 00:01 |
schestowitz | Satyam Inflated Employee Figures to Siphon Cash < http://www.pcworld.com/article/158136/s... > | Jan 23 00:17 |
schestowitz | Bailing out lie and spin tellers?? < http://www.prwatch.org/node/8147 > ( Government Bailout for Journalism? ) | Jan 23 00:33 |
schestowitz | Microsoft is afraid of saying Linux kills it | Jan 23 00:42 |
schestowitz | It blamed "netbooks" | Jan 23 00:42 |
schestowitz | Nobody forced Microsoft to sell Windows for just $5 to be put on these... | Jan 23 00:42 |
schestowitz | It's because of Linux that it has no choice but to do this. With EDGI likewise....... | Jan 23 00:43 |
schestowitz | http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/... "Janis Krums was heading to New Jersey on a ferry when he clicked a snapshot with his iPhone of US Airways Flight 1549 partially submerged in the Hudson River. He uploaded the picture to his Twitter account and then forgot about it as he assisted in the rescue of the plane's passengers." | Jan 23 00:45 |
schestowitz | http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/mi... "What does BILL GATES have to say about all this??" | Jan 23 00:46 |
schestowitz | Microsoft considers moving 30 percent of vendors off-site < http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/a... > | Jan 23 00:47 |
schestowitz | Censorship fanaticism at the Vole: http://minimsft.blogspot.com/2009/0... "Administrivia: moderation turned off in the near term - note that I will delete" | Jan 23 00:54 |
schestowitz | http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/micros... "Just how many contractors who work for Microsoft will lose their jobs? Microsoft will not comment. But the tally is probably close to if not more than 5,000." | Jan 23 00:55 |
schestowitz | More than initially reported. Maybe even 15,000 will lose their job, like Fuszilla first predicted | Jan 23 00:55 |
schestowitz | *Fudzilla | Jan 23 00:55 |
schestowitz | Microsoft's buddies blame Vista: http://www.cnet.com/8301-13846_1-10148166-62.htm... (Gartner: Blame Vista for Microsoft layoffs) | Jan 23 00:57 |
schestowitz | The Cost of Fearing Strangers < http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01... > | Jan 23 01:04 |
schestowitz | Obamaism.. http://miserableswine.com/2009/01/22/a... | Jan 23 01:07 |
schestowitz | Cites BoycottNovell | Jan 23 01:07 |
schestowitz | "Note the avoidance of the "L" word, "Linux"--ed." http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn... Yes, Microsoft blames "netbooks", not that 'thing' that runs on them and leads Microsoft to dumping | Jan 23 01:22 |
schestowitz | http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Microsoft_plann... "Microsoft doesn't report publicly the number of contractors who work for the company through job agencies." So it does not disclose its AstroTurfing activities, either (we have some of them showing up in BN). | Jan 23 01:39 |
schestowitz | Obama's Mac-savvy team lands in Microsoft hell at White House < http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Obamas_... > | Jan 23 01:40 |
*Omar87 has quit ("Leaving.") | Jan 23 01:47 |
schestowitz | http://english.ohmynews.com/ArticleView/arti... "Asustek Chairman Jonney Shih has predicted that about 60 percent of Eee PCs to be shipped in 2009 will have Windows XP." | Jan 23 02:05 |
schestowitz | 40% for GNU/Linux in 2009 then.. | Jan 23 02:06 |
*kapipi has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Jan 23 02:11 |
schestowitz | http://www.fsf.org/events/20090122troy "2009-01-22 from 17:00 to 19:00" | Jan 23 02:16 |
schestowitz | http://www.itwire.com/content/view/22816/1090/ "Most of the Sugar code is released under the GPL version 2 with little bits being under GPLv3." | Jan 23 02:34 |
schestowitz | One of the Microsoft Moles is again flogging Windows 7ap0rware... all the usual suspects a-humming. | Jan 23 02:34 |
schestowitz | http://www.olpcnews.com/software/suga... | Jan 23 02:35 |
schestowitz | http://linux-hardcore.com/index.php?... "Can you believe that somebody has even posted a screenshot tour on Digg............. even though the only difference from 8.10 is the wallpaper." | Jan 23 02:37 |
balzac | I've got a good old friend whose dad works at M$ | Jan 23 02:47 |
schestowitz | Is that a good thing? | Jan 23 02:48 |
balzac | I should have a conversation with him sometime about software licensing | Jan 23 02:48 |
balzac | well, I figure Microsoft is going to change one way or the other. It'll be the hard way, not the easy way. | Jan 23 02:48 |
schestowitz | Web-based... | Jan 23 02:49 |
schestowitz | But that's like a hippo trying to be a zebra | Jan 23 02:49 |
balzac | They'll have to be more service-oriented and accept the new software landscape | Jan 23 02:49 |
balzac | well they're not going away, but they are going to shrink and look something like IBM after they fell off their pedestal | Jan 23 02:49 |
schestowitz | Yes | Jan 23 02:50 |
schestowitz | There will be more layoffs I reckon | Jan 23 02:50 |
balzac | They'll have to accept that their legacy of innovation is mostly all garbage. Their best program is excel. | Jan 23 02:50 |
schestowitz | 10,000+ so far perhaps | Jan 23 02:50 |
balzac | the rest is trash. | Jan 23 02:50 |
balzac | yeah | Jan 23 02:50 |
balzac | Ok, to be fair, M$ has bought a few innovative companies along the way | Jan 23 02:50 |
schestowitz | I've dug up this gem: http://www.mercurynews.com/newsspeci... | Jan 23 02:50 |
schestowitz | "Just how many contractors who work for Microsoft will lose their jobs? Microsoft will not comment. But the tally is probably close to if not more than 5,000." | Jan 23 02:51 |
balzac | but who wants their standards-renegging trash-ware? | Jan 23 02:51 |
schestowitz | http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/micro... | Jan 23 02:51 |
schestowitz | Want? | Jan 23 02:51 |
schestowitz | Nobody wants. | Jan 23 02:51 |
schestowitz | Microsoft tends to force people | Jan 23 02:51 |
balzac | they could release some driver C code maybe. | Jan 23 02:51 |
schestowitz | They receive attahments. | Jan 23 02:51 |
balzac | yeah | Jan 23 02:51 |
schestowitz | Or landf on HackTiveHacks sites that say they must use WIn+IE | Jan 23 02:52 |
balzac | It's mostly all a big trash-heap of lame software. | Jan 23 02:52 |
balzac | Excel is still the best at what it does. | Jan 23 02:52 |
schestowitz | It had branding | Jan 23 02:52 |
balzac | what else is good? | Jan 23 02:52 |
schestowitz | Vista injured the brand | Jan 23 02:52 |
schestowitz | So try to call it Vista 7 ;-) | Jan 23 02:52 |
schestowitz | Or BetaVista 7 | Jan 23 02:52 |
balzac | That photo-panorama software | Jan 23 02:52 |
schestowitz | It's Vista... and it's BETA... again | Jan 23 02:52 |
schestowitz | That photo sofwtare is Linux | Jan 23 02:53 |
balzac | It's Vista, product-recall edition | Jan 23 02:53 |
schestowitz | It WAS, originally | Jan 23 02:53 |
schestowitz | PhotoSynth. | Jan 23 02:53 |
schestowitz | It ran on Ubuntu | Jan 23 02:53 |
schestowitz | Microsoft stole it from Linux | Jan 23 02:53 |
balzac | right, they acquired it, they didn't make it. | Jan 23 02:53 |
schestowitz | I wrote about it in BN | Jan 23 02:53 |
balzac | yeah, so I figure they need to basically let all their legacy trash-code go onto the trash-heap of history | Jan 23 02:53 |
balzac | like apple let go of OS9 and below | Jan 23 02:54 |
balzac | their OS is just trash | Jan 23 02:54 |
schestowitz | "Usually Microsoft doesn't develop products, we buy products. It's not a bad product, but bits and pieces are missing." --Arno Edelmann, Microsoft's European business security product manager | Jan 23 02:54 |
balzac | *nix is superior | Jan 23 02:54 |
balzac | They'll have years ahead of them of "eating their own dogfood", supporting their legacy crap | Jan 23 02:54 |
schestowitz | They can't | Jan 23 02:55 |
balzac | but they'll have to deal with the fact they've been left behind | Jan 23 02:55 |
schestowitz | It won't last for long | Jan 23 02:55 |
schestowitz | They lose their fight against critical mass | Jan 23 02:55 |
schestowitz | Why do you think their profit fell by double-digit %? | Jan 23 02:55 |
schestowitz | They dumped against GNU/Linux | Jan 23 02:55 |
schestowitz | EDGI, $5 WIndow XP for "netbooks"... | Jan 23 02:55 |
balzac | right | Jan 23 02:55 |
balzac | EDGI = what? | Jan 23 02:56 |
schestowitz | You don't know? | Jan 23 02:56 |
schestowitz | I thought you read FSD | Jan 23 02:56 |
balzac | Embrace ... | Jan 23 02:56 |
schestowitz | Hold on. | Jan 23 02:56 |
schestowitz | You must catch up with this. | Jan 23 02:56 |
schestowitz | It's a long series: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/01/16/edg... | Jan 23 02:57 |
balzac | well, I read the most sensational headlines regarding M$. I spend most of my time reading things I can use. I have a lot of learning to do to become a competent sysadmin | Jan 23 02:57 |
schestowitz | This is the last part, many links at the top to previous part. Pass on to inform people. It made the front page of Slashdot too (about 15 GB of traffic) | Jan 23 02:57 |
balzac | ok | Jan 23 02:57 |
schestowitz | We might make front page of Digg in the morning. | Jan 23 02:58 |
schestowitz | http://digg.com/linux_unix/Microsoft_Tas... | Jan 23 02:58 |
balzac | About time. | Jan 23 02:58 |
balzac | You guys drew a line in the sand and stuck to it. It's going to be nice when Novell collapses. | Jan 23 02:59 |
schestowitz | It happens once ina few months... same with /. | Jan 23 02:59 |
schestowitz | Smid talked about Novell reductions | Jan 23 02:59 |
schestowitz | He jumped ship some weeks ago | Jan 23 02:59 |
schestowitz | So, you know........... | Jan 23 02:59 |
balzac | sweet | Jan 23 02:59 |
balzac | That's one reason I love to read BN - hearing the dire news of Microsoft's troubles. | Jan 23 03:00 |
balzac | It will be quite satisfying to watch their archaic business model finally collapse onto it's self | Jan 23 03:01 |
balzac | Bill Gates talked too much trash about the GPL | Jan 23 03:01 |
balzac | Now he's going to watch GPL-licensed software destroy their company like tide dissolving a sand castle. | Jan 23 03:02 |
balzac | I've got to reload my browser | Jan 23 03:02 |
balzac | I have driver issues on my eee pc | Jan 23 03:02 |
balzac | also, brb, got to go out for a few | Jan 23 03:02 |
*schestowitz got distratcded | Jan 23 03:03 |
schestowitz | Microsoft's troubles are having journos scared | Jan 23 03:03 |
schestowitz | They can't cover it properly | Jan 23 03:03 |
schestowitz | I wrote about this in the morning | Jan 23 03:04 |
schestowitz | .They try getting reporters sacked | Jan 23 03:04 |
schestowitz | Say the truth about their financials and be called names in Web forums | Jan 23 03:04 |
schestowitz | You might also have them allege that you're transgendered or something if you say too many things that are true and they can't counter because it's embarrassing truth | Jan 23 03:04 |
schestowitz | Gates Foundation is just one among many examples that make taboos | Jan 23 03:05 |
balzac | That's good news. | Jan 23 03:19 |
balzac | Microsoftie tears are crisp, sweet and satisfying. | Jan 23 03:19 |
balzac | Ok, now I need to read about this EDGI | Jan 23 03:19 |
schestowitz | Let me know what you think | Jan 23 03:20 |
schestowitz | It's over 100 pages if you go deep | Jan 23 03:20 |
schestowitz | I had the (dis)pleasure of processing the whole thing... quite a project | Jan 23 03:20 |
balzac | Sheesh | Jan 23 03:20 |
balzac | A good friend of mine is a corporate lawyer. He has to deal with piles of paper. | Jan 23 03:21 |
balzac | I couldn't face it without adderol | Jan 23 03:21 |
schestowitz | Paper is bad | Jan 23 03:23 |
schestowitz | Paging too | Jan 23 03:23 |
schestowitz | If you have something like Wikipedia, then you work fast without pagination. | Jan 23 03:23 |
schestowitz | Glossary and all that arcane stuff is out the door.. | Jan 23 03:23 |
balzac | edgi is their coordinated dumping strategy, combined with bribing and arm-twisting of public officials? | Jan 23 03:29 |
balzac | what does the acronym stand for? | Jan 23 03:29 |
schestowitz | It has several acronyms | Jan 23 03:30 |
schestowitz | See the first pare | Jan 23 03:30 |
schestowitz | *part | Jan 23 03:30 |
schestowitz | It's also known to THE PUBLIC as "Unlimited Potential", though that's a superset in some sorts of ways | Jan 23 03:30 |
schestowitz | Or a new identity that's a marketing thing, not a predatory business scheme | Jan 23 03:30 |
balzac | I was contracting at this financial services company in manhattan | Jan 23 03:34 |
balzac | There was this guy going on and on about Citrix | Jan 23 03:34 |
balzac | I said it was an abomination to run *nix operating system as a VM on top of windows | Jan 23 03:35 |
balzac | Microsoft is poisoning the Xen virtualization software as we | Jan 23 03:35 |
balzac | well | Jan 23 03:35 |
balzac | I think citrix bought xen or something. MS is invested heavily in Citrix | Jan 23 03:35 |
balzac | I'm looking to make some bread from brokering software roll-outs for financial services companies. | Jan 23 03:36 |
balzac | I think I'll get RedHat certification to help my credibility in that area. | Jan 23 03:36 |
balzac | Since the NYSE Global Trading Platform will run on RedHat, that's something serious to brag abuot. | Jan 23 03:37 |
balzac | about | Jan 23 03:37 |
balzac | Where are you located, BTW? | Jan 23 03:37 |
balzac | Education and Government Incentives [EDGI] program | Jan 23 03:39 |
balzac | I get it now, it's their strategy of bribing public officials to place M$ into schools and governments. | Jan 23 03:40 |
balzac | and dumping | Jan 23 03:40 |
balzac | They want to get at the captive audience of school kids and government contracts | Jan 23 03:40 |
schestowitz | I know (abotu Xen) | Jan 23 03:41 |
schestowitz | It was supposed to ruin Xen... you know the XenSource story? | Jan 23 03:41 |
balzac | only a little | Jan 23 03:41 |
schestowitz | They had an investment from what seems like an MS proxy. | Jan 23 03:41 |
schestowitz | Then a Microsoft General Manager took some charge | Jan 23 03:41 |
balzac | fill me in because I'm going to be using your opposition research as a consultant | Jan 23 03:41 |
schestowitz | They moved near to MS (Seattle) and then swallowed by Microsoft's bribe | Jan 23 03:42 |
schestowitz | Red Hat needed to buy KVM | Jan 23 03:42 |
schestowitz | balzac: I'm in the UK | Jan 23 03:42 |
balzac | Ok | Jan 23 03:42 |
schestowitz | EDGI = sentimental blackmail | Jan 23 03:43 |
schestowitz | In /some/ sense. | Jan 23 03:43 |
schestowitz | "help us help your children.. with cigs" | Jan 23 03:43 |
balzac | heheh | Jan 23 03:43 |
balzac | How's the PhD program going? | Jan 23 03:45 |
schestowitz | I need to make a picture | Jan 23 03:45 |
schestowitz | A kid with smoke in his face. | Jan 23 03:45 |
schestowitz | Saying something like "I need to get out for another Windows" | Jan 23 03:46 |
schestowitz | http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/ar... | Jan 23 03:46 |
balzac | I'd compare Microsoft software with Soviet Russia | Jan 23 03:46 |
balzac | So big, cumbersome and archaic. | Jan 23 03:46 |
balzac | totalitarian, centralized, oppressive, stifling innovation and freedom. | Jan 23 03:47 |
schestowitz | China? | Jan 23 03:47 |
balzac | Well, China, sadly has been embracing M$ like almost no other country. | Jan 23 03:48 |
balzac | I think there are a couple reasons for this | Jan 23 03:48 |
balzac | India is more literate in English | Jan 23 03:48 |
balzac | Also, China relies on strong centralized control and M$ supports that. | Jan 23 03:49 |
schestowitz | China wants its own OS now | Jan 23 03:49 |
schestowitz | Billie does politics full time now though | Jan 23 03:49 |
balzac | But Soviet Russia is a good comparison because it signals the imminent collapse and the non-sustainable business model of M$ | Jan 23 03:49 |
schestowitz | He went to China to market Windows to the communist government right after his 'retirement' | Jan 23 03:49 |
schestowitz | Does that make Ballmer Stalin? | Jan 23 03:50 |
balzac | You know, I thought the only way M$ could continue is from being subsidized by a totalitarian government. Software as a tool of oppression. | Jan 23 03:50 |
schestowitz | WTF?? http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=8716 | Jan 23 03:51 |
balzac | If M$ is not solvent in the "free world" or western countries, maybe M$ can be subsidized by totalitarian governments like China in order to lock down any software-driven social movements. | Jan 23 03:51 |
schestowitz | http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=8332 | Jan 23 03:52 |
schestowitz | That's the one I looked for | Jan 23 03:52 |
balzac | I wrote on Change.gov that the Obama administration should be thankful for free software for driving the online social phenomena which were at the heart of his online campaign. | Jan 23 03:52 |
schestowitz | He won't read it | Jan 23 03:53 |
schestowitz | He's too busy memorising speeches | Jan 23 03:53 |
balzac | well, I was needling his IT staff | Jan 23 03:54 |
schestowitz | You know how change.org works... | Jan 23 03:54 |
balzac | I was asking "where's the source code?" What software is this? Why is it such a nuiscance to deep-link to my own comments? | Jan 23 03:54 |
balzac | probably not so differently from moveon.org | Jan 23 03:55 |
balzac | or dailykos.com | Jan 23 03:55 |
balzac | centrally-controlled grassroots | Jan 23 03:55 |
balzac | I've got something interesting for you to ponder, a little story to share | Jan 23 03:55 |
balzac | I'll keep it succinct | Jan 23 03:55 |
schestowitz | If {{application.Role!="CEO"} || {company_size_ppl<1000000}} >> /dev/null/ | Jan 23 03:55 |
balzac | looks like shell script | Jan 23 03:56 |
schestowitz | Yeah, I mixed some | Jan 23 03:56 |
balzac | ok, DailyKos.com | Jan 23 03:56 |
schestowitz | I know it | Jan 23 03:56 |
balzac | you know about it, Markos Moulitsas? | Jan 23 03:56 |
schestowitz | I posted interviews with the founder i BN | Jan 23 03:56 |
schestowitz | Yes | Jan 23 03:56 |
balzac | well, I used to be about as prolific a blogger as you, but I was focused on impeaching Bush | Jan 23 03:57 |
balzac | I got banned 25 times from DailyKos.com | Jan 23 03:57 |
schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/ind... | Jan 23 03:57 |
schestowitz | But DailyKos is /against/ Bush. | Jan 23 03:57 |
balzac | yes, but not quite | Jan 23 03:58 |
balzac | markos was always against impeachment | Jan 23 03:58 |
balzac | so in that sense, he was for Bush | Jan 23 03:58 |
balzac | also, he applied for work with the CIA | Jan 23 03:59 |
balzac | so how did it fall in his lap? | Jan 23 03:59 |
schestowitz | He was in the army | Jan 23 03:59 |
balzac | it didn't, members of congress appointed Markos as our dictator, in the sense the Roman senate would appoint a dictator to an occupied region | Jan 23 03:59 |
balzac | but it's not like they took a vote, but they voted with their participation | Jan 23 04:00 |
balzac | they gave dailykos the nearly exclusive access to their blogging | Jan 23 04:00 |
balzac | if you wanted online contact with your democratic representative, it could only really come through dailykos | Jan 23 04:00 |
balzac | eventually, HuffingtonPost started getting some members of congress blogging there | Jan 23 04:01 |
balzac | But Kos had Kennedy, Kerry, Clinton, Obama once or twice, | Jan 23 04:01 |
balzac | there's a very long list of democratic congressmen who blogged on DailyKos | Jan 23 04:02 |
balzac | so they gave markos that power to be the gate-keeper | Jan 23 04:02 |
balzac | It's ironic, his book was "crashing the gates" but he really was our appointed gate-keeper | Jan 23 04:02 |
balzac | he didn't crash sh!t | Jan 23 04:02 |
balzac | his was not the first installation of Scoop to be used as a political forum | Jan 23 04:03 |
balzac | that was another blog by Jerome Armstrong, I think. It's called MyDD | Jan 23 04:03 |
schestowitz | I heard of it | Jan 23 04:03 |
schestowitz | I know just his own take | Jan 23 04:03 |
schestowitz | Not the critics | Jan 23 04:03 |
balzac | so, it reminds me a hell of a lot of how Linus Torvalds usurped the GNU project with his Linux Kernel project | Jan 23 04:04 |
balzac | Linus is ok with DRM | Jan 23 04:04 |
balzac | Linus' little project gained the support of big companies which made him our appointed leader in a way | Jan 23 04:04 |
balzac | just as Markos' little project gained the support of all these members of congress which appointed him to dictate to us | Jan 23 04:05 |
balzac | Kucinich was left out in the cold | Jan 23 04:05 |
balzac | Kos would always bash Kucinich | Jan 23 04:05 |
schestowitz | Yes. | Jan 23 04:05 |
balzac | in the same manner Linus Torvalds would bash RMS | Jan 23 04:05 |
schestowitz | Linus had no beard | Jan 23 04:05 |
schestowitz | So GNU was suddenly OK | Jan 23 04:05 |
schestowitz | They groomed him and his name (Linus with an X) | Jan 23 04:06 |
schestowitz | IBM can't have a front man who says that Bush should be sentenced to prison | Jan 23 04:06 |
balzac | and all these corporations knew they had a "yes" man in Torvalds, so that project got all the support while the HURD languished | Jan 23 04:06 |
balzac | likewise, the congressional weasels knew they had a yes man in Markos Moulitsas, so they made his site the portal for online access to members of congress. | Jan 23 04:07 |
balzac | Ok, so there's another interesting connection | Jan 23 04:07 |
balzac | Former governor of Vermont... | Jan 23 04:07 |
balzac | what's his name... | Jan 23 04:07 |
balzac | Howard Dean | Jan 23 04:08 |
balzac | he set up a platform based on Drupal for political organizers | Jan 23 04:08 |
balzac | It's called Civic Space | Jan 23 04:08 |
balzac | Drupal is run by Dries Buytaert | Jan 23 04:09 |
balzac | That was spawned from the forum for Linux Kernel developers, KernelTrap.org | Jan 23 04:09 |
schestowitz | Drupal? | Jan 23 04:10 |
balzac | So you can see some indirect social contact - Markos - Howard Dean - Buytaert - Torvalds | Jan 23 04:10 |
balzac | Drupal is the strongest PHP CMS. I use it every day. | Jan 23 04:10 |
balzac | GPLv2 license | Jan 23 04:10 |
schestowitz | WordPress is bigger for blogging/CMS to an extent | Jan 23 04:10 |
balzac | It's not bigger for the biggest projects | Jan 23 04:10 |
balzac | WordPress and Joomla might be installed more, but that's because they're simpler and less powerful. | Jan 23 04:11 |
balzac | Drupal has the center of gravity of serious developers. It's the best general-integration platform. | Jan 23 04:11 |
balzac | Anyway, Scoop used to be the best User Moderated Forum software | Jan 23 04:12 |
balzac | it was based on Slashcode, I think | Jan 23 04:12 |
balzac | based on Slashdot | Jan 23 04:12 |
balzac | But markos put the Scoop devs on his payroll and kept all the improvements to Scoop for his private version of Scoop | Jan 23 04:12 |
schestowitz | Oh, that's dead.. | Jan 23 04:12 |
schestowitz | SourceForge etc. | Jan 23 04:12 |
balzac | and he solicited piles of money to do that | Jan 23 04:12 |
schestowitz | Waning I think | Jan 23 04:13 |
balzac | yeah, and he never gave anything back to Scoop | Jan 23 04:13 |
schestowitz | Not traffic-wise... but it has competition | Jan 23 04:13 |
balzac | Scoop is way dead | Jan 23 04:13 |
balzac | the only decent version of Scoop is DailyKos | Jan 23 04:13 |
balzac | and it's probably a crufty mess at this point | Jan 23 04:13 |
schestowitz | I know he spoke about it in the interview | Jan 23 04:13 |
balzac | So Markos announces he's going to release the ultimate blogging platform in the world, DailyKos 4.0 | Jan 23 04:13 |
schestowitz | BN is still growing | Jan 23 04:13 |
schestowitz | Almost doubled this month (month2month) | Jan 23 04:14 |
balzac | wait, which interview? | Jan 23 04:14 |
schestowitz | I showed you links | Jan 23 04:14 |
schestowitz | To Oggss...... | Jan 23 04:14 |
schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/inde... | Jan 23 04:14 |
balzac | yeah, I scanned them but my stinkin eee PC chokes sometimes | Jan 23 04:14 |
balzac | markos is being interviewed> | Jan 23 04:15 |
balzac | ? | Jan 23 04:15 |
schestowitz | Yes | Jan 23 04:15 |
schestowitz | Christian interview him | Jan 23 04:15 |
schestowitz | He mentioned this interview to me some months ago... I can't recall the context | Jan 23 04:16 |
balzac | Ok, what is the title? | Jan 23 04:16 |
balzac | Markos mentioned you? | Jan 23 04:16 |
balzac | I'm trying to find it because I want to read it. | Jan 23 04:17 |
balzac | Anyway, Markos doesn't get free software, he's a tool. | Jan 23 04:17 |
balzac | he's a "hoarder" who has "piles of money" but no credibility in the free software community. | Jan 23 04:17 |
schestowitz | No, he doesn't know me. | Jan 23 04:18 |
schestowitz | True, he doesn't get FOSS | Jan 23 04:19 |
balzac | Ok, I'm still trying to find which of those search results contains the interview | Jan 23 04:19 |
schestowitz | He says something about this in the interview | Jan 23 04:19 |
schestowitz | To him it's just a tool. | Jan 23 04:19 |
schestowitz | How does he get funded to blog? | Jan 23 04:19 |
schestowitz | Just advertising? I very much doubt it | Jan 23 04:19 |
schestowitz | BN has a 'revenue' of $50 that goes in part to the host | Jan 23 04:20 |
balzac | He could be getting money on the side, but don't doubt that his ad-income is substantial. | Jan 23 04:20 |
balzac | no man, he gets orders of magnitude more traffic than BN | Jan 23 04:20 |
balzac | especially during election cycles | Jan 23 04:20 |
balzac | the dude is a made man. Piles of money. | Jan 23 04:21 |
balzac | also, his enforcers on his website are political hacks | Jan 23 04:22 |
balzac | like the chief of staff of a governor, for instance - one of the biggest assholes on the site who would brow-beat impeachment campaigners | Jan 23 04:22 |
balzac | they get paid too | Jan 23 04:23 |
schestowitz | I can imagine... | Jan 23 04:23 |
balzac | anyway, so you have RMS backing Kucinich | Jan 23 04:23 |
schestowitz | But he doesn't seem like a bad guy. | Jan 23 04:23 |
balzac | you have Kos backing anyone but Kucinich | Jan 23 04:23 |
schestowitz | Politicians are | Jan 23 04:23 |
balzac | Kos is a prick, he's not Darth Vader, he's not Satan, but he is a prick. | Jan 23 04:24 |
balzac | His guys went after me in some very nasty ways. | Jan 23 04:24 |
schestowitz | How so? | Jan 23 04:25 |
balzac | Anyway, that's my tale on how the free software community, open source business alliance, and the online democratic political fund-raising free-speech zones are related. | Jan 23 04:25 |
schestowitz | Can't be literally... O'Gara style. | Jan 23 04:25 |
balzac | You'd have to read how he writes about Kucinich | Jan 23 04:26 |
balzac | It's the same disdainful attitude of Linus Torvalds towards RMS | Jan 23 04:26 |
balzac | only more overtly hostile | Jan 23 04:26 |
balzac | Kucinich, the only guy to really stand up for impeachment, and Kos treated him with no respect at all. | Jan 23 04:26 |
balzac | Kos was most definitely not "Crashing the Gates", he was reinforcing the gates. | Jan 23 04:27 |
schestowitz | Jail gate? | Jan 23 04:27 |
schestowitz | As in bars? | Jan 23 04:27 |
balzac | Crashing the Gates is the title of his book about online political organizing. | Jan 23 04:28 |
balzac | as if he's not part of the media establishment | Jan 23 04:28 |
balzac | He got a freaking deal to write for newsweek | Jan 23 04:28 |
balzac | and all these members of congress not only show up to his website, but they show up in person to his political conferences. | Jan 23 04:29 |
balzac | used to be called Yearly Kos, now it's called "Netroots Nation". | Jan 23 04:29 |
balzac | Anyway, you know what it's like to have Microsoft's and Novell's people go after you like tanya harding, whacking at your knee-caps | Jan 23 04:30 |
balzac | I know what that's like too | Jan 23 04:30 |
schestowitz | Oh | Jan 23 04:30 |
schestowitz | Lessig keynoted it | Jan 23 04:30 |
balzac | All I did was stick to my guns on impeaching Bush for being a war criminal and I was slandered and verbally abused to an incredible extent on DailyKos.com | Jan 23 04:30 |
schestowitz | Tanya Harding? | Jan 23 04:31 |
balzac | She's the skater who had a big henchman whack Nancy Kerrigan in the knee with a metal bar during the olympics | Jan 23 04:31 |
balzac | classic | Jan 23 04:31 |
balzac | so I'm saying when you've got character-assassins who try to hobble you for standing up for something, that's my analogy | Jan 23 04:32 |
schestowitz | I was never abused physically | Jan 23 04:32 |
balzac | metaphor | Jan 23 04:32 |
schestowitz | Just verbally, using lots of libel | Jan 23 04:32 |
balzac | Me too | Jan 23 04:32 |
schestowitz | Most people are not stupid enough to believe it | Jan 23 04:33 |
schestowitz | But you never know about those who might cling on to lie | Jan 23 04:33 |
schestowitz | I've seen some of this | Jan 23 04:33 |
schestowitz | Like people spreading rumours about me being a senile or something. | Jan 23 04:33 |
balzac | Lots of people are not nearly paranoid enough to discriminate between you and your critics. | Jan 23 04:33 |
schestowitz | Or was it autistic.*LOL* | Jan 23 04:33 |
balzac | Until you've gone and pitted yourself against a really big, well-monied, corrupt, bureaucracy or corporation, you're going to be quite naive about the level of coordinated smear-attacks you'll suffer. | Jan 23 04:35 |
balzac | Most people have not had that "rite of passage" as an activist, so they'll really think you're just a paranoid guy with bad social skills. | Jan 23 04:36 |
schestowitz | RMS has the same issue | Jan 23 04:38 |
balzac | Yeah, Kucinich too | Jan 23 04:38 |
schestowitz | Linus... not so much... he's conformist | Jan 23 04:38 |
balzac | Well, he's not any kind of activist. He's politically inert, like Markos. | Jan 23 04:38 |
schestowitz | Obedience keeps his relatively safe from mad stalkers | Jan 23 04:38 |
balzac | He's just sitting there, stifling progress, collecting money, criticizing the real guy, basking in the lime-light, while riding the real guy's coat tails. | Jan 23 04:39 |
balzac | Kos and Torvalds | Jan 23 04:39 |
balzac | I reserve judgment on Dries Buyteart because he's younger, and he said "free software" in the forward of some book about Drupal, not "open source". | Jan 23 04:40 |
balzac | But I really got tired of Torvalds constantly ripping on RMS because it's exactly the same as Markos Moulitsas always disrespecting Kucinich. | Jan 23 04:41 |
balzac | It's not all black and white | Jan 23 04:41 |
balzac | I'm not a judgemental person, but I know when there's reason to resist some bullshit artist, not just out of principles but also out of personal financial interest. | Jan 23 04:42 |
balzac | I'll be damned if I'm not going to get my slice of the pie. | Jan 23 04:42 |
schestowitz | Dries is OK | Jan 23 04:43 |
schestowitz | Don't bring him into this group (LinusKos) :-) | Jan 23 04:44 |
balzac | I think so too. He's a nice guy, and all that. | Jan 23 04:44 |
balzac | I'm not, I wrote congratulations on his blog for his 8 years of Drupal. | Jan 23 04:44 |
schestowitz | "Do as I say but not too much" | Jan 23 04:44 |
schestowitz | Linus about RMS | Jan 23 04:44 |
schestowitz | Or Kos and those who want real justice re: Bush | Jan 23 04:44 |
balzac | But Torvalds and Kos aren't exactly terrible people either, they're just not in any position to be disrespecting the elder statesmen activists. | Jan 23 04:45 |
schestowitz | Yes | Jan 23 04:45 |
balzac | Plus, by defending the real visionary, I'm taking position myself, with personal interest. | Jan 23 04:45 |
balzac | It's crucial, I think, in order to be taken seriously, not to be too much of a renunciate. I want to be financially successful. I think it also strengthens my credibility. | Jan 23 04:46 |
balzac | so I'm a vocal critic of "open source" and an advocate of Free Software and GNU, not just ideologically, but as an entrepreneur. | Jan 23 04:47 |
balzac | But I'm pragmatic enough to push sales of a mixed-source product like RedHat because it's a hell of a lot better than Novell. | Jan 23 04:48 |
schestowitz | Open Source is /whose/? ESR? Perens? ORLY? | Jan 23 04:48 |
balzac | They're all guys who don't think as clearly as RMS. | Jan 23 04:48 |
schestowitz | They swap names, then garner control | Jan 23 04:48 |
schestowitz | EEE | Jan 23 04:48 |
schestowitz | But not from Microsoft | Jan 23 04:49 |
balzac | Well, Perens backed off of Open Source. He's cooler than ESR. | Jan 23 04:49 |
balzac | O'Rielly is half-serious, considering the way most of his books are licensed. | Jan 23 04:49 |
balzac | publishing ESR's screed, CATB, as if it were worth a crap - that shows how aware O'Reilly is of free software principles and history. | Jan 23 04:50 |
balzac | I like O'Reilly though because he appreciates this really cool Sufi singer whom I also am a fan. | Jan 23 04:50 |
balzac | Anyway, they're all just guys and I'm not on some high-horse of judgment, but I see opportunity in being a bit more thoughtful and respectful of the real innovators. | Jan 23 04:51 |
balzac | RMS is greatly undervalued by the "open source" community, especially considering that 60% of the so-called "open source" software is GPL-licensed. | Jan 23 04:52 |
schestowitz | or those who sacrificed. | Jan 23 04:52 |
balzac | yeah | Jan 23 04:52 |
balzac | It's ridiculous that the FSF goes along on a shoe-string budget while Google owns an air-strip and is practically building a navy. jk | Jan 23 04:53 |
schestowitz | You mention Linus a lot of not Microsofticaza | Jan 23 04:53 |
balzac | Google's floating data-centers, Mark Shuttleworth's space-tourism, RMS flying coach. | Jan 23 04:54 |
balzac | Icaza is a peckerwood | Jan 23 04:54 |
balzac | he's very sneaky | Jan 23 04:55 |
balzac | You can lump him together with Torvalds and Markos Moulitsas. | Jan 23 04:55 |
schestowitz | Blech | Jan 23 04:56 |
balzac | Well, there are people of all kinds, varying degrees of mental coherence. Some people just have more cognitive dissonance and they don't see the irony of their ridiculous ideas. | Jan 23 04:56 |
schestowitz | Shuttleworth | Jan 23 04:56 |
schestowitz | Wow! The hero | Jan 23 04:56 |
schestowitz | He.. he... he flew to space | Jan 23 04:56 |
schestowitz | What heroism | Jan 23 04:56 |
balzac | Shuttleworth - golden boy, like the Mavs owner. | Jan 23 04:56 |
balzac | What's his name, who owns the Mavericks? | Jan 23 04:57 |
schestowitz | He's like a man given by God from another planet :-) | Jan 23 04:57 |
balzac | Mark Cuban | Jan 23 04:57 |
balzac | yeah, well it's not hard to get a big ego when you've become disproportionately successful and you're surrounded by sycophants | Jan 23 04:57 |
balzac | It's a phenomenon of group-psychology. I've made diagrams of egoists and sycophants to capture my theories on social psychology and narcissism. | Jan 23 04:58 |
balzac | I wouldn't mind becoming one of them, but at least I'll be really self-conscious of the psychology behind it. It distorts your point of view if you're not well aware of what's happening. | Jan 23 05:00 |
schestowitz | Diagrams like that remind me of Unabomber | Jan 23 05:00 |
balzac | I would be. I'm not going to presume my success as an entrepreneur. I can barely convince people to pay me more than $20/hr. | Jan 23 05:01 |
balzac | how so? | Jan 23 05:01 |
schestowitz | Diagram here: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Industrial_... | Jan 23 05:05 |
schestowitz | The guy creeps me out though | Jan 23 05:05 |
schestowitz | It's quite interesting though. "It is merely a matter of attitude whether you blame the advertising industry for manipulating the public or blame the public for allowing itself to be manipulated. As a matter of strategy one should generally avoid blaming the public." | Jan 23 05:07 |
balzac | There's a lot to read there about the psychology of social activists vs establishment & status-quo defenders | Jan 23 05:07 |
balzac | He's right about that. | Jan 23 05:08 |
balzac | Every time I hear someone say, regarding environmental catastrophe or war crimes - "it's everyone's fault. We're all responsible for this" - I say no! It's that guy's fault, and that guy! | Jan 23 05:09 |
balzac | because what's the use of not singling out the worst culprits? | Jan 23 05:09 |
balzac | don't blame the public, blame the opinion-leaders, the elected and appointed officials, the wealthy, the influential. | Jan 23 05:10 |
balzac | There's nothing to be gained from blaming the powerless public. | Jan 23 05:10 |
balzac | except to alienate yourself. | Jan 23 05:10 |
schestowitz | Soldiers who obery orders | Jan 23 05:11 |
schestowitz | I said it before... people are just a generation and a half away from nokeys | Jan 23 05:11 |
schestowitz | We're gullible and it's dangerous | Jan 23 05:11 |
balzac | I say let most of those soldiers off the hook. Nail bush and cheney. | Jan 23 05:11 |
schestowitz | Anyway, it's 5AM here. | Jan 23 05:11 |
schestowitz | I'm off to bed before ti's light | Jan 23 05:11 |
balzac | right | Jan 23 05:11 |
balzac | Thanks for chatting | Jan 23 05:12 |
balzac | I hope we can talk business some time, or software, but I think we've covered politics pretty thoroughly. | Jan 23 05:12 |
balzac | If you're ever in NYC, you're invited to join my friends and I at some strip clubs. | Jan 23 05:13 |
balzac | ttyl Roy | Jan 23 05:14 |
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MinceR | j0 | Jan 23 09:17 |
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schestowitz | Morning. | Jan 23 10:53 |
schestowitz | Windows kills. | Jan 23 11:40 |
schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/0... " The virus takes advantage of a known problem that is resolved through a Windows patch that wasn't installed because "the decision to disable automatic security updates was taken during Christmas week after PCs in an operating theatre were rebooted mid-surgery."" | Jan 23 11:40 |
MinceR | :) | Jan 23 11:43 |
MinceR | i disabled it when i was trying out coreavc and it took the movie out of fullscreen every 5 minutes because "DURR HURR REBOOT NOW" | Jan 23 11:43 |
MinceR | i've managed to install coreavc-for-linux since | Jan 23 11:43 |
schestowitz | You can't disable it in Vista. | Jan 23 11:46 |
schestowitz | Windows knows better than you.. and forces you to accept its judgment. | Jan 23 11:46 |
MinceR | :) | Jan 23 11:47 |
schestowitz | "Change" my arse! http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10148807-38.html?p... | Jan 23 11:55 |
schestowitz | Nice... http://www.crunchbase.com/assets/images/... | Jan 23 11:57 |
schestowitz | Linux-based Jolicloud operating system for netbooks | Jan 23 11:57 |
schestowitz | http://p10.hostingprod.com/@spyblog.org.uk/... (Counter Terrorism Act 2008 - "attempting to elicit information" and secret DNA sampling and data sharing etc. come into force on February 16th 2009) | Jan 23 11:58 |
MinceR | cute... too bad it's infected with malware such as skype | Jan 23 11:59 |
schestowitz | I saw that too. | Jan 23 12:00 |
MinceR | anyway, if it kills windows, it's good | Jan 23 12:01 |
schestowitz | *LOL* "Two-thirds use an "SQL database" but only 10% use a relational DBMS? Paul Krill, how about a refresher in computer science 101?" < http://www.infoworld.com/article/09/01/20/ope... > | Jan 23 12:04 |
MinceR | if only | Jan 23 12:05 |
MinceR | sql is a horror | Jan 23 12:05 |
schestowitz | I should do a post on Apple's attack on Linux | Jan 23 12:05 |
benJIman | SQL is not relational. | Jan 23 12:05 |
schestowitz | So all those hypocrites from LCA and such will open their eyes | Jan 23 12:05 |
schestowitz | People in Linux conferences using Macs | Jan 23 12:07 |
schestowitz | Sutor also...... http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200... | Jan 23 12:07 |
benJIman | I'd be surprised if even 10% of people used relational databases. | Jan 23 12:08 |
MinceR | benJIman: huh? | Jan 23 12:09 |
benJIman | MinceR: It is incompatible with relational theory for several reasons. Including the existance of "null", the fact that attribute-order is significant, the fact that duplicate rows are allowed, missing relational operators and other problems. | Jan 23 12:12 |
MinceR | yet it's based on relational theory | Jan 23 12:14 |
MinceR | and such DB-s are commonly called RDBMS-es | Jan 23 12:14 |
MinceR | do you know any "really relational" DB-s? | Jan 23 12:15 |
benJIman | MinceR: It's based on relational theory but things have been added and removed such that it is no longer compatible. | Jan 23 12:26 |
MinceR | by your definition, nobody uses relational databases :> | Jan 23 12:26 |
benJIman | There are some toy dbmses that are relational. Mightyd and Re. lIngres is working on a real relational database too. | Jan 23 12:26 |
MinceR | what advantages do they expect from a stricter model? | Jan 23 12:27 |
benJIman | You can use a relational subset of SQL, but there are still some problems with it that are impossible to workaround. | Jan 23 12:27 |
benJIman | MinceR: A lot of the query optimisations are not possible due to the ways sql breaks the relational model. Of course the biggest issue is data integrity and redundancy. | Jan 23 12:28 |
MinceR | ic | Jan 23 12:28 |
benJIman | I suggest reading some books/papers by Chris Date/Hugh Darwen if you want to know more. | Jan 23 12:28 |
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oiaohm2 | I see apple got on radar. People forget the apple netwon that existed before palm. | Jan 23 12:58 |
schestowitz | Yes | Jan 23 13:00 |
schestowitz | But what's with use of patents to eliminate products? | Jan 23 13:00 |
oiaohm2 | Apple normally does not eliminate products. | Jan 23 13:05 |
schestowitz | I can't think of examples | Jan 23 13:05 |
schestowitz | But often enough, companies 'hire' a troll to remove competing products | Jan 23 13:06 |
oiaohm2 | Freetype case. With open source. As long as opensource developers provided an option not to use patented code Apple would not attack project. | Jan 23 13:06 |
oiaohm2 | Apple kinda just wants to be payed for there patent list. | Jan 23 13:06 |
oiaohm2 | Most likely cause of Apple threating Palm was Palm thinking since it was not making an OS any more it did not have to pay patents. | Jan 23 13:07 |
oiaohm2 | Apple is not in that great of a money location to not be paid for there patents. | Jan 23 13:08 |
schestowitz | That's flawed logic | Jan 23 13:09 |
schestowitz | This isn't copycatting. | Jan 23 13:09 |
schestowitz | They're wasting everybody's time and money. Ask TomTom's CEO.. | Jan 23 13:09 |
oiaohm2 | Not really. | Jan 23 13:11 |
oiaohm2 | Its not like TomTom has had a licence with Apple like patent usage like Palm. | Jan 23 13:12 |
oiaohm2 | Apple to Palm is just a open warning. | Jan 23 13:12 |
MinceR | people forget that (1) newton didn't have phone functionality and (2) crApple licensed handwriting recognition for it from palm | Jan 23 13:14 |
MinceR | apple to palm is bullying | Jan 23 13:14 |
MinceR | and claiming innovation where they've done none | Jan 23 13:15 |
oiaohm2 | Apple has always had the policy of protecting there patents. Remember neither did palm have phone support at the time of newton either. | Jan 23 13:15 |
MinceR | oh, it's "protecting patents" now? | Jan 23 13:15 |
MinceR | remember that handspring introduced the pda/phone and handspring is palm now. | Jan 23 13:16 |
oiaohm2 | There are interface design things that are apples MinceR | Jan 23 13:16 |
oiaohm2 | Apple just said don't infringe on them. | Jan 23 13:16 |
MinceR | apple keeps claiming gui innovation for stuff they've stolen from xerox and elsewhere | Jan 23 13:17 |
MinceR | apple was caught trying to patent something someone else invented already. | Jan 23 13:17 |
oiaohm2 | So has everyone else who has patents at some time. | Jan 23 13:17 |
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MinceR | http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl... | Jan 23 13:18 |
MinceR | the great innovators | Jan 23 13:18 |
oiaohm2 | Yes the true problem with patents sometimes you think your idea is unique and opps it was not. | Jan 23 13:18 |
MinceR | assuming they really didn't know | Jan 23 13:19 |
MinceR | which implies that apple didn't lie | Jan 23 13:19 |
MinceR | but apple keeps lying all the time | Jan 23 13:19 |
schestowitz | oiaohm2: Apple to Palm is extorton | Jan 23 13:20 |
schestowitz | *ion | Jan 23 13:20 |
schestowitz | Same as attack in ways, just verbal. | Jan 23 13:20 |
MinceR | the patent system is obviously broken | Jan 23 13:21 |
MinceR | and is obviously going counter to its original invention | Jan 23 13:21 |
oiaohm2 | Patent law is annoying stuff. If you say that you will not defend you patents your patents are basically useless. Even IBM states clearly that Open Souce may use there patents as long as there is nothing in the licence forbining IBM from using it. Anyone else same kind of words apple used. | Jan 23 13:22 |
MinceR | welcome to modern capitalism, where all the rules are subverted so instead of promoting competition, they promote monopolies. | Jan 23 13:22 |
oiaohm2 | Patent Law forces the threat setup. | Jan 23 13:22 |
MinceR | "clearly stating" is not a patent license and not legally binding. | Jan 23 13:23 |
oiaohm2 | Funny enough is it can be legally binding in some courts if you state wrong. | Jan 23 13:24 |
oiaohm2 | Sorry the threat words apple used are basicaly boiler plate for notifying someone that there are patents in a area they have to be aware of. | Jan 23 13:25 |
MinceR | "there are patents" sounds like FUD. | Jan 23 13:26 |
MinceR | just like a certain other company keeps doing nowadays | Jan 23 13:26 |
oiaohm2 | Note Apple has a lot of patents for rendering fonts and the like to screen. | Jan 23 13:26 |
MinceR | we'll just have to do without fonts on the screen, then | Jan 23 13:27 |
MinceR | obviously it's a great invention | Jan 23 13:27 |
MinceR | oh, wait, it isn't | Jan 23 13:27 |
oiaohm2 | It taking the rough edges of fonts and making them look good. | Jan 23 13:27 |
oiaohm2 | There are are a lot of other small avoidable patents like that. | Jan 23 13:27 |
MinceR | antialiasing? what a novel idea! | Jan 23 13:28 |
oiaohm2 | Antialiasing with extra data in font to undo errors. | Jan 23 13:29 |
MinceR | you mean hinting? | Jan 23 13:29 |
oiaohm2 | Yep. | Jan 23 13:29 |
oiaohm2 | Apple will most likely also hold some hardware patents. | Jan 23 13:30 |
MinceR | most likely about things they didn't invent | Jan 23 13:30 |
MinceR | as usual | Jan 23 13:30 |
oiaohm2 | Hinting they did invent. | Jan 23 13:30 |
oiaohm2 | It was first done in there video cards by hardware. | Jan 23 13:30 |
MinceR | doesn't the Bilski decision render that patent unenforceable anyway? | Jan 23 13:30 |
oiaohm2 | Nop hardware patent these days emulated in software. | Jan 23 13:31 |
oiaohm2 | So Bilski does not apply. | Jan 23 13:31 |
oiaohm2 | That is what you have to be very careful with Apple over. They have a lot of small kinda not important looking hardware patents. | Jan 23 13:32 |
MinceR | so all one needs to do to make a sw patent apply is also implement it in hardware? | Jan 23 13:32 |
MinceR | yeah, they're just like microsoft, trying to keep you from competing because they can't come up with quality products. | Jan 23 13:32 |
oiaohm2 | Implement it in hardware first. Patent that then convert to software. | Jan 23 13:32 |
oiaohm2 | It applies in a lot of countries that don't have software patents that way. | Jan 23 13:33 |
MinceR | converting an algorithm to hardware is probably trivial. | Jan 23 13:33 |
oiaohm2 | Depends on the algorithm. It be real hardware you cannot use a cpu or microprocess of any form to process it. | Jan 23 13:34 |
oiaohm2 | Because if you use a cpu or microprocess it don't get the global reach. | Jan 23 13:34 |
MinceR | i could use a microcontroller | Jan 23 13:36 |
oiaohm2 | If you use a microcontroller is a software patent. | Jan 23 13:36 |
MinceR | or i could generate a circuit | Jan 23 13:36 |
oiaohm2 | Yes it has to be a solid logic circuit. | Jan 23 13:37 |
MinceR | it would be wasteful but nobody cares | Jan 23 13:37 |
oiaohm2 | Also due to the complexity of doing solid logic circuits for complex things reason why they appear to be minor things. | Jan 23 13:38 |
MinceR | i don't have to do the entire thing in hw and it will already be bound to a specific hw, won't it? | Jan 23 13:38 |
oiaohm2 | Basically the patents Apple are sitting on are far stronger than lot of the software patents MS sits on. But area of coverage of apples is limited. | Jan 23 13:39 |
oiaohm2 | Most of apples hardware patents can be designed around. | Jan 23 13:39 |
oiaohm2 | Like freetype generating hinting on the fly. | Jan 23 13:40 |
oiaohm2 | Instead of using hinting data embed in the font file covered by apples patent. | Jan 23 13:40 |
oiaohm2 | Hardware patents are no where as global reaching as software patents either. | Jan 23 13:40 |
MinceR | sw patents disguised as hw patents, on the other hand... | Jan 23 13:41 |
oiaohm2 | sw patents can have down right poor descriptions of opertations at times making them almost impossable to take another path. | Jan 23 13:41 |
oiaohm2 | hw patents must have clean defined description of what it does. So making finding another path simpler. | Jan 23 13:42 |
oiaohm2 | ie hw patents are annoying don't step on them but not end of development like sw patents. Apple basically saying to palm just don't step on them design your own ways around problems. | Jan 23 13:44 |
oiaohm2 | Where someone with software patents would be saying you cannot design nothing that avoids my patents at times. | Jan 23 13:44 |
oiaohm2 | Software patents are pure bad. Hardware patents are more annoying than company destroying. | Jan 23 13:45 |
schestowitz | Why is it ok for h/w in this case? | Jan 23 13:47 |
schestowitz | it just implments maths | Jan 23 13:47 |
MinceR | schestowitz: obviously, because it's from Holy Apple. | Jan 23 13:48 |
oiaohm2 | Apple is not anglic. Yes maths in circuit becomes hw patent. Hw patents also cover silcon chip designs for like of doing cos and sin. There are a few thousand different patents to do them. | Jan 23 13:50 |
oiaohm2 | Hw patents are very much you cannot do it the same way. But of you do it a different way get the same final result everything is legal. | Jan 23 13:51 |
MinceR | that's how sw patents should work if at all. | Jan 23 13:51 |
oiaohm2 | I don't really have a Issue with Hw patents. | Jan 23 13:52 |
oiaohm2 | Sw patent rules are so crap its not funny. | Jan 23 13:52 |
oiaohm2 | Its also the reason why when it comes to a court case over a Hw patent if you are infinging is normally worked out in one trial without question. | Jan 23 13:53 |
oiaohm2 | Most hw patent breaches are settled out of court. For the simple reason both parties can confirm the other is or is not in breach. | Jan 23 13:54 |
oiaohm2 | The number of software patent cases really show a major problems in the rules. You are lucky to see 1 hw patent case go to court every 5 years. | Jan 23 13:56 |
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schestowitz | MinceR: Holy Apple? | Jan 23 14:05 |
schestowitz | Holy cow. | Jan 23 14:05 |
MinceR | :) | Jan 23 14:05 |
MinceR | you know, the guys who can get away with everything | Jan 23 14:06 |
oiaohm2 | When you know the rules of hardware patents you really have to ask why software patents are need at all. | Jan 23 14:06 |
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schestowitz | oiaohm2: keep an eye on BN | Jan 23 14:06 |
schestowitz | I have a long post coming with studies and new arguments on why patents are the s* | Jan 23 14:06 |
MinceR | oiaohm2: they're needed because some sw companies are unable to compete and they know it | Jan 23 14:06 |
MinceR | so they're using sw patents to deny entry to the market. | Jan 23 14:06 |
schestowitz | To give historical reference, these are just ways or handing in power to the rich | Jan 23 14:06 |
MinceR | well, trying to, anyway. | Jan 23 14:06 |
schestowitz | It's marketed differently | Jan 23 14:06 |
schestowitz | Many things are marketed as "secuerity" | Jan 23 14:07 |
schestowitz | Even knowingly as means of deceit | Jan 23 14:07 |
MinceR | yeah, like DRM | Jan 23 14:07 |
schestowitz | Like "protecting" patents | Jan 23 14:07 |
schestowitz | Yes, DRM too | Jan 23 14:07 |
MinceR | which apple and m$ still seem to be in love with | Jan 23 14:07 |
schestowitz | It's the same in politics | Jan 23 14:07 |
oiaohm2 | DRM does have its places. | Jan 23 14:07 |
schestowitz | To break off labour unions and such | Jan 23 14:07 |
schestowitz | Always secueity | Jan 23 14:07 |
MinceR | yeah, in the history books | Jan 23 14:07 |
MinceR | under "bullets we have dodged" | Jan 23 14:07 |
twitter | I'm glad Apple is chest thumping patents. | Jan 23 14:07 |
schestowitz | Terrify people about the evil "pirates" | Jan 23 14:07 |
schestowitz | Then you can do anything about them. | Jan 23 14:07 |
twitter | When they lose, SW patents are over. | Jan 23 14:08 |
oiaohm2 | Problem with DRM its being placed were it does not realy suit. | Jan 23 14:08 |
MinceR | like, in practice. | Jan 23 14:08 |
oiaohm2 | SW patents are a threat to Apple as well. | Jan 23 14:08 |
twitter | There's no good place for digital restrictions. | Jan 23 14:08 |
schestowitz | Pirates of Silicon Valley, remember | Jan 23 14:08 |
MinceR | "good artists copy, great artists steal" | Jan 23 14:08 |
MinceR | remember? | Jan 23 14:08 |