| oiaohm | Why we don't know. | Feb 23 06:14 |
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| balzac | no, you've got to use fiberoptic | Feb 23 06:14 |
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| balzac | copper is slow | Feb 23 06:14 |
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| oiaohm | That is the problem. | Feb 23 06:14 |
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| oiaohm | I said we have tech problems. | Feb 23 06:14 |
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| balzac | you have gov problems | Feb 23 06:14 |
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| balzac | tech problems are the least of your problems | Feb 23 06:14 |
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| oiaohm | Really tech. | Feb 23 06:14 |
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| oiaohm | Its cost of tech that lasts makes lot of things here too expensive to do. | Feb 23 06:15 |
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| balzac | rupert murdoch came from AU | Feb 23 06:15 |
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| balzac | so did John Howard | Feb 23 06:15 |
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| balzac | Australia produces 1st rate scumbags just like the US. | Feb 23 06:15 |
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| oiaohm | Now someone designs a fiber that does not upset sharks. | Feb 23 06:15 |
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| balzac | i'm sure your country has plenty of them | Feb 23 06:15 |
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| oiaohm | Island links become way cheaper. | Feb 23 06:15 |
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| balzac | a bit of research on sharks, a new casing on your cable | Feb 23 06:16 |
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| oiaohm | Last 40 years so far nothing that the sharks will leave alone has been found. | Feb 23 06:16 |
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| oiaohm | If it has fiber on. | Feb 23 06:16 |
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| oiaohm | Funny enough you lay it they don't touch it until you start sending data. | Feb 23 06:17 |
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| balzac | so there must be some resistance which is creating a field which tickles them | Feb 23 06:17 |
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| balzac | insulate it better | Feb 23 06:17 |
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| balzac | sharks are not a big deal | Feb 23 06:18 |
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| oiaohm | So far no luck. | Feb 23 06:18 |
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| balzac | luck isn't going to get it doen | Feb 23 06:18 |
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| balzac | putting Rupert Murdoch in prison would get the job done | Feb 23 06:18 |
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| oiaohm | Problem we don't know what the sharks are picking up. | Feb 23 06:18 |
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| balzac | actually, fine the rotten SOB for 7B | Feb 23 06:18 |
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| oiaohm | Its a little hard to stop a signal until you know what it is. | Feb 23 06:19 |
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| balzac | oiaohm: no more excuses. it's the fault of Rupert Murdoch and John Howard, both of whom should be fed to sharks. Along with Bush and Cheney. | Feb 23 06:19 |
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| balzac | If we can feed those guys to sharks, there is no problem we can't solve | Feb 23 06:19 |
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| balzac | sharks have sensitive skin to electrical phenomenon | Feb 23 06:20 |
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| balzac | that's already known | Feb 23 06:20 |
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| oiaohm | Cost to do australia would drop massively if the island links could be done cheaply like everything else. | Feb 23 06:20 |
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| balzac | well, I'd put 50,000,000 on shark research and it would be solved quickly | Feb 23 06:20 |
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| balzac | 7B is a lot of dough | Feb 23 06:20 |
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| oiaohm | Also better designed ripper that did not break at solid white quatz. | Feb 23 06:21 |
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| balzac | your problem is basically Rupert Murdoch and his satellite network | Feb 23 06:21 |
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| balzac | he is your problem and there is none other than him | Feb 23 06:21 |
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| balzac | he makes his coin from controlling network access | Feb 23 06:21 |
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| balzac | and he hates freedom | Feb 23 06:21 |
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| oiaohm | Its time balzac it been over 30 years of research and still a cable other than coper has not been found that does not upset them. Or a form of shielding that works. | Feb 23 06:22 |
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| balzac | I don't even believe it | Feb 23 06:23 |
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| balzac | that can't be true | Feb 23 06:23 |
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| oiaohm | Our major out link cables have been ran around there path. | Feb 23 06:23 |
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| balzac | it's an excuse to keep AU in the dark | Feb 23 06:23 |
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| oiaohm | Just is a very major detor to avoid the taz ones. | Feb 23 06:23 |
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| balzac | ●Likely, the rest of the cables have been damaged by fishing nets or boat anchors (those two causes account for 65% and 18% of all undersea cable problems). | Feb 23 06:25 |
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| oiaohm | Taz also has a secound problem. | Feb 23 06:27 |
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| oiaohm | Bass straight it self. Extreamlly high currents. | Feb 23 06:27 |
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| balzac | the problem is rupert murdoch | Feb 23 06:27 |
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| oiaohm | Not really | Feb 23 06:27 |
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| balzac | he's got the media monopoly | Feb 23 06:27 |
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| oiaohm | Really. | Feb 23 06:27 |
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| balzac | tell me he hasn't got Au by the balls | Feb 23 06:28 |
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| oiaohm | We have 4 commerical media companies. | Feb 23 06:28 |
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| oiaohm | He only has a interest in 1. | Feb 23 06:28 |
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| balzac | Australia's a lot easier to control than the US and he's been controlling our media | Feb 23 06:28 |
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| oiaohm | No control of the other 3 | Feb 23 06:28 |
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| oiaohm | You forget the packer familly. | Feb 23 06:28 |
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| balzac | yeah, well he only owns one cable news channel here as well | Feb 23 06:28 |
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| balzac | but it was the official cable news channel of the Bush administration | Feb 23 06:29 |
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| oiaohm | We have a mirror force to rupert | Feb 23 06:29 |
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| balzac | Now Rupert Murdoch is hating obama | Feb 23 06:29 |
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| oiaohm | You are not that lucky. | Feb 23 06:29 |
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| balzac | Fox served Bush day in and day out. | Feb 23 06:29 |
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| oiaohm | Packers never had interested in overseas investments.. | Feb 23 06:29 |
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| oiaohm | So you got stuck with the worse one. | Feb 23 06:30 |
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| oiaohm | Rupert is not an Australian cit either. | Feb 23 06:30 |
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| oiaohm | He is a USA cit these days. | Feb 23 06:30 |
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| oiaohm | So he cannot own an Australian media company as the major share holder. | Feb 23 06:31 |
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| balzac | well, Au doesn't require as much resources for him to control your media | Feb 23 06:32 |
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| balzac | I'm sure he is your worst problem | Feb 23 06:32 |
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| balzac | regardless of his US citizenship | Feb 23 06:32 |
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| oiaohm | Nop | Feb 23 06:32 |
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| oiaohm | Basically his control here is min. | Feb 23 06:33 |
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| oiaohm | Lots most of his control when he took up US cit | Feb 23 06:33 |
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| oiaohm | His investers double crossed him. | Feb 23 06:33 |
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| oiaohm | Basically we exported our problem. | Feb 23 06:34 |
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| oiaohm | Packers on the other hand are as strong as ever. | Feb 23 06:35 |
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| balzac | well, who provides your network services? what companies? | Feb 23 06:35 |
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| balzac | they are your problem | Feb 23 06:35 |
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| balzac | so your problem is a few people, not the sharks or the size of yoru continent | Feb 23 06:35 |
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| balzac | these people probably pay fishing boats to drag their anchors across the cables and blame it on sharks | Feb 23 06:35 |
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| balzac | so they can control access | Feb 23 06:36 |
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| oiaohm | Not likely. | Feb 23 06:36 |
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| balzac | by controlling access, they have enough funds to lobby your gov | Feb 23 06:36 |
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| oiaohm | We have radar coverage. | Feb 23 06:36 |
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| oiaohm | Any boat near cable is impounded. | Feb 23 06:36 |
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| balzac | well, the shark problem is clearly exaggerated | Feb 23 06:36 |
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| oiaohm | Its just some areas. Its a particular species of shark. | Feb 23 06:37 |
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| balzac | sharks are no match for people | Feb 23 06:37 |
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| balzac | alright, i have to snooze | Feb 23 06:37 |
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| oiaohm | Here boat hitting cable does happen. | Feb 23 06:38 |
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| balzac | i hope you're inspired to point the finger at whoever is choking your data access | Feb 23 06:38 |
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| balzac | instead of the poor fish | Feb 23 06:38 |
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| oiaohm | Some is tech. | Feb 23 06:38 |
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| oiaohm | Some is goverments. | Feb 23 06:38 |
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| oiaohm | Issue here that australia has some unque problems. | Feb 23 06:38 |
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| balzac | nothing crocodile dundee couldn't handle | Feb 23 06:39 |
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| oiaohm | Lucky salt water crocodiles take no interest in fiber. | Feb 23 06:39 |
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| balzac | "That's not a knife, *this* is a knife!" | Feb 23 06:40 |
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| oiaohm | That is kinda the problem. | Feb 23 06:40 |
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| balzac | ok, i'm going to snooze | Feb 23 06:40 |
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| oiaohm | What you guys use with your areas is fine. We just need bigger and stronger. | Feb 23 06:40 |
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| balzac | hehe | Feb 23 06:41 |
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| oiaohm | Now when someone invents that our networking problems will disappear. | Feb 23 06:41 |
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| oiaohm | Like rippers that don't snap hitting really hard rock. | Feb 23 06:41 |
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| oiaohm | That is most of our cost in land base laying comes from that. | Feb 23 06:42 |
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| oiaohm | Snapping the rippers off. | Feb 23 06:42 |
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| *balzac goes to sleep | Feb 23 06:42 |
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| schestowitz | Maybe I should too. It's 7am here. | Feb 23 06:54 |
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| schestowitz | Already light.. | Feb 23 06:54 |
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| schestowitz | Good night... it's almost morning. | Feb 23 07:06 |
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| ZiggyFish | Word of warning, the mono libraries are downloadable from the android market | Feb 23 10:01 |
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| MinceR | the latest release from Microogvell? :> | Feb 23 10:07 |
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| MinceR | hay | Feb 23 10:08 |
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| trmanco | Hi guys | Feb 23 11:07 |
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| trmanco | Microsoft wants refund from some laid off workers: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3... just read this | Feb 23 11:07 |
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| mib_d24w28 | hello.. | Feb 23 11:17 |
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| mib_d24w28 | is there anyone who can tell me what atmosphere is there at the epo office about softaware patents? | Feb 23 11:19 |
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| trmanco | http://i44.tinypic.com/juddu1.png | Feb 23 11:30 |
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| oiaohm | Having a good day schestowitz | Feb 23 11:33 |
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| schestowitz | hey | Feb 23 11:33 |
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| oiaohm | My day of fun is about to being. Data recovery. | Feb 23 11:38 |
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| schestowitz | Anything vital? Did someone rm -rf /home/mickeymouse ? | Feb 23 11:43 |
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| oiaohm | Harddrive stoped | Feb 23 11:43 |
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| oiaohm | Complete accounts for business on it. | Feb 23 11:43 |
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| oiaohm | Ok not my companies. | Feb 23 11:43 |
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| schestowitz | Ahhhh.... | Feb 23 11:43 |
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| schestowitz | Maybe it 'stopped' | Feb 23 11:44 |
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| schestowitz | Meltdown | Feb 23 11:44 |
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| schestowitz | Hide the evidence | Feb 23 11:44 |
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| schestowitz | We 'lost' data :-) j/k | Feb 23 11:44 |
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| schestowitz | "Oops" | Feb 23 11:44 |
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| oiaohm | Nop | Feb 23 11:44 |
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| oiaohm | It was disk failure | Feb 23 11:44 |
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| schestowitz | Sure, sure :-D | Feb 23 11:44 |
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| oiaohm | Owns to a bad batch of disks. | Feb 23 11:45 |
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| oiaohm | To be correct primarly and back up disk were from the same batch. | Feb 23 11:45 |
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| schestowitz | Yeah, I know. I'm just joking, but it's also a classic plot | Feb 23 11:45 |
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| oiaohm | Yep very big mistake | Feb 23 11:45 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft actually fits here | Feb 23 11:45 |
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| oiaohm | Both died in mins of each other. | Feb 23 11:45 |
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| schestowitz | They pretended they lost E_mail backup | Feb 23 11:45 |
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| schestowitz | They blamed H-P for bad backup | Feb 23 11:45 |
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| oiaohm | Note to you schestowitz | Feb 23 11:45 |
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| schestowitz | So the evidence of crime could not be brought back | Feb 23 11:46 |
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| oiaohm | Never put backups to harddrives on the same batch drives. | Feb 23 11:46 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: you know I was kidding, right? | Feb 23 11:46 |
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| oiaohm | I know. | Feb 23 11:46 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: Hehe :-) | Feb 23 11:46 |
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| oiaohm | But data recovery I don't kid. | Feb 23 11:46 |
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| schestowitz | Same HDD | Feb 23 11:46 |
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| schestowitz | "Hey, Scott, did you make a backup?" | Feb 23 11:46 |
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| oiaohm | Some of my stories sound like pulling leg. | Feb 23 11:46 |
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| schestowitz | Scott: "Sure, I copies all my file to 'drive' D: | Feb 23 11:46 |
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| oiaohm | Sad part they are true. | Feb 23 11:46 |
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| schestowitz | Partitition... | Feb 23 11:47 |
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| oiaohm | Like person open drive to oil squeaks. Yes it does happen. | Feb 23 11:47 |
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| oiaohm | Then wondering why drive does not work any more. | Feb 23 11:47 |
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| schestowitz | :-) | Feb 23 11:47 |
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| oiaohm | After closer inspection they used super glue. | Feb 23 11:47 |
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| schestowitz | It's not a typewriter | Feb 23 11:47 |
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| oiaohm | Instead of oil. | Feb 23 11:47 |
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| schestowitz | LMAO | Feb 23 11:47 |
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| oiaohm | Yes some days it like what were this person thinking. | Feb 23 11:48 |
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| schestowitz | What's next? Fixing bad RAM with tongs and a magnifying glass? | Feb 23 11:48 |
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| oiaohm | It bad enough opening a drive without a clean room. | Feb 23 11:48 |
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| oiaohm | Not quite tongs but I have seen the effect of hammer being used to insert ram. | Feb 23 11:48 |
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| oiaohm | It did not want to go in because they had the stick backwards. | Feb 23 11:49 |
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| oiaohm | Yes person put hammer threw montherboard. | Feb 23 11:50 |
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| oiaohm | Then was asking if it could be fixed. | Feb 23 11:50 |
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| oiaohm | You know the old joke about using cdrom drive a coffee cup holder. Its not a joke there are some people out there dumb enough to do it. | Feb 23 11:51 |
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| oiaohm | Data recovery the job to meet the next possiable darwin award winners. Just make sure they don't kill you first. | Feb 23 11:51 |
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| oiaohm | Great | Feb 23 11:54 |
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| oiaohm | Just had a sata cable fall. | Feb 23 11:54 |
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| oiaohm | Back to starting blocks again. | Feb 23 11:54 |
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| oiaohm | back in a bit | Feb 23 11:56 |
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| oiaohm | Right just found my first annoying bug of Linux. | Feb 23 12:00 |
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| oiaohm | Don't have sata cable fall out of main drive. | Feb 23 12:00 |
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| oiaohm | Putting it back in Linux does not recover and move on. | Feb 23 12:00 |
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| schestowitz | The cup-holder thing is a classic. | Feb 23 12:02 |
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| oiaohm | Problem is its true | Feb 23 12:02 |
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| oiaohm | So far in my IT history I have meet 15 people who have done it. | Feb 23 12:03 |
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| oiaohm | Then got me and expect me to fix there cup holder. | Feb 23 12:03 |
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| oiaohm | I was young once and believed humans could not be that dumb. | Feb 23 12:05 |
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| oiaohm | Experience is teaching me not matter how dump you think humans are there will always be another that makes you push that limit back. | Feb 23 12:05 |
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| oiaohm | Hmm do you have a list of dumb things MS personal has said by any chance schestowitz | Feb 23 12:11 |
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| oiaohm | No one needing more than 640 kb of ram from gates is a classic. | Feb 23 12:12 |
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| schestowitz | Yes | Feb 23 12:21 |
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| schestowitz | I have some, but not groups by criteria like "Stupidity" | Feb 23 12:22 |
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| schestowitz | *grouped | Feb 23 12:22 |
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| schestowitz | Gates denies saying the above BTW | Feb 23 12:22 |
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| oiaohm | Note 640 kb one is from 1981 | Feb 23 12:27 |
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| oiaohm | At the time who was to know. | Feb 23 12:27 |
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| oiaohm | "If something's expensive to develop, and somebody's not going to get paid, it won't get developed. So you decide: Do you want software to be written, or not?" in an interview in 1980. | Feb 23 12:28 |
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| oiaohm | The foundation stone of closed source software. | Feb 23 12:28 |
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| oiaohm | Is it just me or is the IT news really slow at moment schestowitz | Feb 23 12:31 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, very. | Feb 23 12:33 |
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| schestowitz | Many people laid off | Feb 23 12:33 |
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| schestowitz | I hear from them sometimes. | Feb 23 12:33 |
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| oiaohm | MIPS joining the linux foundation is about the only new news I have found recently. | Feb 23 12:35 |
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| oiaohm | I guess you also notices the number of computer mags now only web sites as well. | Feb 23 12:36 |
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| schestowitz | <<<<<<yes | Feb 23 12:36 |
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| schestowitz | oops | Feb 23 12:36 |
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| schestowitz | brackets=mistake | Feb 23 12:37 |
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| oiaohm | IT bubble has burst. | Feb 23 12:37 |
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| oiaohm | Question now is how big of fall out. | Feb 23 12:37 |
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| kentma | oiaohm: it's not just IT, it's pretty much everything which has burst. Thank the bankers... they invented something called "financial engineering", not realising that engineering is when you make something... silly s*ds. | Feb 23 12:40 |
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| oiaohm | Lot of open source is not effected yet. | Feb 23 12:43 |
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| kentma | open-source will not be negatively affected in terms of it's existence or supportability. personally, I think it'll be a big winner from the recession, as people, companies and organisations generally look to reduce their costs. | Feb 23 12:44 |
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| schestowitz | Also transparency will be pursued | Feb 23 12:45 |
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| oiaohm | Open-source will have a crunch if it lasts long enough. | Feb 23 12:45 |
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| schestowitz | It keeps vendors honest | Feb 23 12:45 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: no one company has a dependence here. | Feb 23 12:46 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft goes out of its way to give the false perception that it's stable | Feb 23 12:46 |
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| schestowitz | Analysts and investors appa\rently wanted it to lay off a lot more people and change course. | Feb 23 12:47 |
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| kentma | oiaohm: open-source cannot have a crunch per se, as it is just software. The most likely outcome for those involved in open-source, however, is that they will continue to benefit because it's such a good option compared with the present expensive proprietary ones. We're already seeing this with the netbook explosion. | Feb 23 12:48 |
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| oiaohm | Open source support companies then kentma | Feb 23 12:49 |
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| oiaohm | At this stage companies are still health enough to pay for out side support. | Feb 23 12:49 |
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| kentma | oiaohm: I think they will benefit from the recession considerably, as they offer a lower-cost alternative in a time when people look to reduce costs. | Feb 23 12:49 |
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| oiaohm | Usering program not paying support company. Can be cheeper. | Feb 23 12:50 |
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| oiaohm | Yes more risk as well. | Feb 23 12:50 |
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| oiaohm | Problem is how pushed to wall is company. | Feb 23 12:50 |
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| kentma | I agree with you, which is why open-source will benefit - if you go open, you can pick and choose support, whereas proprietary solutions are pretty much one-shop, particularly when deep problems are found. | Feb 23 12:51 |
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| kentma | consider that Microsoft have had bugs in for years, perhaps even decades now, which have been known but remain unfixed... | Feb 23 12:51 |
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| oiaohm | The problem here some of the most skilled programmers in the open source world are employeed by the support companies. | Feb 23 12:52 |
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| oiaohm | So them suffering pain can cause issues. | Feb 23 12:52 |
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| oiaohm | Hopefully it turns around before that happens. | Feb 23 12:53 |
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| kentma | I agree with your concerns, of course, but open-source began as entirely unfunded, and I do not believe that this will change - it's about the entry-barrier to becoming a coder, which is very very low for open-source. In fact, for many coders, continuing to work on key projects will help to maintain their employability as a kind of "live CV" | Feb 23 12:53 |
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| benJIman | nava | Feb 23 12:54 |
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| benJIman | yy;r | Feb 23 12:54 |
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| benJIman | OOps, wrong keyboard layout. | Feb 23 12:54 |
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| oiaohm | kentma idea that open source is unfund for major projects unfunded programmers is the minority. | Feb 23 12:59 |
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| oiaohm | Programmers are normally paid to make something work for someone in the open source world. | Feb 23 13:00 |
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| schestowitz | Just posted: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/23/microsof... | Feb 23 13:06 |
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| oiaohm | People love thinking as open source as magical. | Feb 23 13:12 |
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| schestowitz | Free software. | Feb 23 13:22 |
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| schestowitz | It's not magic... no more than something like "freedom" can be called magic or. It's more of a state or condition. | Feb 23 13:23 |
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| oiaohm | Open source still needs money in places. | Feb 23 13:24 |
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| oiaohm | Just how it gets money is different. | Feb 23 13:24 |
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| oiaohm | Instead of taking cash up front. It takes cash when you want feature fast. | Feb 23 13:26 |
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| oiaohm | Long enough down turn could slow open source development. | Feb 23 13:26 |
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| oiaohm | Ok by then everything in the software world is mostly going under. | Feb 23 13:27 |
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| schestowitz | PDFs dangerous in Windows: "Systems affected are Windows 2000, Windows Vista and Windows XP." < http://www.itwire.com/content/view/23407/1231/ > | Feb 23 13:38 |
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| schestowitz | New argument logic noticed: company says it lowers prices for charitable reasons rather than admitting that it's due to fear of losing the customers to cheaper alternatives. The power of spin.. | Feb 23 13:40 |
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| oiaohm | There is one problem with spin it has a habit of disappearing. | Feb 23 13:46 |
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| schestowitz | In what sense? | Feb 23 13:53 |
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| MinceR | reader is an adobe product -- of course it's full of holes | Feb 23 14:04 |
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| twitter | Revisionism, I suppose. The new lie never matches the old one. | Feb 23 14:05 |
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| twitter | free software has been around for 25 years, oiaohm. it's not going anywhere. | Feb 23 14:05 |
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| twitter | it can exist without money at all - when people want to make something for themselves the easiest place to start is with free software tools and parts. when they are done there's no harm or cost to sharing. the economics are a win for everyone. | Feb 23 14:07 |
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| twitter | the less money there is to be made by selling software in a box, the more people will share. | Feb 23 14:07 |
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| oiaohm | twitter exist yes. | Feb 23 14:08 |
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| twitter | There's just not enough money in greed to be worth the trouble. | Feb 23 14:08 |
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| oiaohm | Speed high speeds of development it has now depends on money. | Feb 23 14:08 |
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| twitter | That's when people pay programmers to have new free features? Nothing new there - that's how Stallman made a living 25 years ago. | Feb 23 14:09 |
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| oiaohm | Deep enough depression paying programmers will stop. | Feb 23 14:09 |
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| oiaohm | As I said by the time open source is in trouble basically everything else is stuffed. | Feb 23 14:10 |
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| twitter | Deep enough depression, there will be no milk unless you diy. | Feb 23 14:10 |
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| MinceR | ew | Feb 23 14:10 |
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| twitter | Never milked a cow Mincer? | Feb 23 14:11 |
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| MinceR | cow? who mentioned cows? | Feb 23 14:11 |
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| MinceR | you said do it yourself. | Feb 23 14:11 |
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| twitter | manboobs make no milk | Feb 23 14:11 |
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| MinceR | you never said using a cow to help with the process is permissible :> | Feb 23 14:11 |
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| twitter | we have all been robbed, that's what depressions are all about. if the theft is large enough, everyone will be hurt but free software is not going anywhere. | Feb 23 14:12 |
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| twitter | If anything, economic downturn favors the free software and other sustainable and diy ways. | Feb 23 14:13 |
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| oiaohm | It favors to a point. | Feb 23 14:13 |
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| oiaohm | Past particular points of everything stuffed. | Feb 23 14:13 |
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| twitter | Really? At what point of economic failure will people want to buy Vista? | Feb 23 14:13 |
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| twitter | LOL | Feb 23 14:13 |
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| twitter | I can't afford my electric bill, better go buy a $100 copy of XP. | Feb 23 14:14 |
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| oiaohm | Closed source yes likely to die first. | Feb 23 14:14 |
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| oiaohm | They are not setup for these downturns at all. | Feb 23 14:14 |
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| oiaohm | Problem comes in with lead coders. | Feb 23 14:15 |
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| oiaohm | /developers | Feb 23 14:15 |
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| twitter | and free software is likely to take non free software's place in *ALL CASES* (paraphrase of OS/2 being blown away) | Feb 23 14:15 |
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| MinceR | what's that problem? | Feb 23 14:15 |
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| oiaohm | For open source project to operate effectively they need to funded. | Feb 23 14:15 |
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| MinceR | not really | Feb 23 14:15 |
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| oiaohm | Ie max effectiveness. | Feb 23 14:15 |
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| MinceR | there are projects that work pretty well without funding | Feb 23 14:16 |
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| oiaohm | So they can put there full time into it. | Feb 23 14:16 |
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| MinceR | because they scratch an itch the developers have | Feb 23 14:16 |
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| MinceR | or it's fun to do (for example, a game) | Feb 23 14:16 |
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| oiaohm | Not really. | Feb 23 14:16 |
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| twitter | the sum of many part time efforts is greater than any funding can afford in full time employment. | Feb 23 14:16 |
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| oiaohm | Most games don't operate at max. | Feb 23 14:16 |
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| twitter | yeah, games just get done and work well. | Feb 23 14:17 |
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| twitter | like the rest of free software | Feb 23 14:17 |
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| oiaohm | Linux kernel is operating at max. | Feb 23 14:17 |
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| MinceR | hm, and if there's no pay for developers because of the depression, what exactly are they going to do full-time? | Feb 23 14:17 |
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| MinceR | also, since when does full-time even matter? | Feb 23 14:17 |
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| oiaohm | It the means for it to quicky intergrate new features and have short release cycles. | Feb 23 14:17 |
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| MinceR | the linux kernel is a good example of something a lot of people contribute a little each to. | Feb 23 14:17 |
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| twitter | they are going to do some kind of thing to do a living, and software will always make that something easier. | Feb 23 14:17 |
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| oiaohm | Without full time leads means to do that disappears. | Feb 23 14:18 |
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| MinceR | please rephrase that in english. | Feb 23 14:18 |
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| twitter | You are repeating repeating yourself ohmman | Feb 23 14:18 |
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| oiaohm | The full time developers can put there full time into checking and making sure quick releases can work. | Feb 23 14:19 |
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| oiaohm | Part time has its issues when it comes to fast release cycles. | Feb 23 14:19 |
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| MinceR | why are fast release cycles important? | Feb 23 14:19 |
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| oiaohm | Just the way it is. | Feb 23 14:19 |
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| MinceR | do we really absolutely have to do the "if it compiles, ship it" approach? | Feb 23 14:20 |
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| twitter | I don't even believe that's the way it is oiaohm. | Feb 23 14:20 |
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| twitter | software that people want will be written the same way it always has. | Feb 23 14:20 |
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| schestowitz | Better slow development than none at all | Feb 23 14:21 |
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| oiaohm | Feature intergration . Longer the release cycles slower new features can enter. | Feb 23 14:21 |
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| schestowitz | Proprietary s/w companies are led to losing/sacking key programmers. What then? | Feb 23 14:21 |
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| twitter | oiaohm thinks that corporate involvement is more important than it is. | Feb 23 14:21 |
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| MinceR | software isn't all about the new shiny crap nobody uses. | Feb 23 14:21 |
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| schestowitz | Pity those whose data is stuck in those legacy apps and can't afford to hire a coder to escape the program | Feb 23 14:21 |
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| twitter | he seems to have swallowed a whole bunch of software owner koolaid | Feb 23 14:22 |
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| oiaohm | I am not saying open source cannot operate without it twitter. | Feb 23 14:22 |
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| schestowitz | You could have many companies running code from the 'middle ages' through the depression. | Feb 23 14:22 |
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| schestowitz | Windows 2000... | Feb 23 14:22 |
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| schestowitz | Because they can't afford new Vista PCs (nor do they want to) | Feb 23 14:22 |
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| twitter | you are saying that free software works better with corporate involvement. I'm not at all sure that's the case. | Feb 23 14:22 |
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| oiaohm | Wine project. | Feb 23 14:22 |
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| schestowitz | The natural thing for them to do is upgrade to PCLinuxOS or something... on the same boxes | Feb 23 14:23 |
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| oiaohm | Before corporate involvement release cycles were long. | Feb 23 14:23 |
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| oiaohm | Simple fact project lead could not put full time into it. | Feb 23 14:23 |
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| oiaohm | Had to do other work to pay bills. | Feb 23 14:23 |
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| schestowitz | KDE gets little funding | Feb 23 14:23 |
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| schestowitz | Most are volunteers | Feb 23 14:23 |
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| MinceR | twitter: remember he's our sun fanboy. :> | Feb 23 14:24 |
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| oiaohm | Core people are still funded. | Feb 23 14:24 |
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| schestowitz | WordPress has a business model too | Feb 23 14:24 |
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| schestowitz | Firefox.. | Feb 23 14:24 |
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| oiaohm | Its not large numbers of the open source coders need funding. | Feb 23 14:24 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: Sun.. well, if anyone's at trouble, it's them | Feb 23 14:24 |
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| oiaohm | There are just key stone people. Who make sure project run organised. | Feb 23 14:25 |
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| schestowitz | Linux is funded by many companies | Feb 23 14:25 |
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| MinceR | it's trouble they've sought for themselves. | Feb 23 14:25 |
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| schestowitz | Solaris has just paying programmers working on it and Sun is not in a good positiion | Feb 23 14:25 |
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| schestowitz | Had Sun been bought/gone under, nobody would bother with their code much.. | Feb 23 14:25 |
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| twitter | oiaohm, you think what you like. free software works in any economy, except a post nuclear zero people left one. | Feb 23 14:25 |
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| schestowitz | There's already Linus... | Feb 23 14:25 |
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| schestowitz | *Linux | Feb 23 14:25 |
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| twitter | gotta go for a while. | Feb 23 14:26 |
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| *twitter (n=willhill@ip72-203-149-158.br.br.cox.net) has left #boycottnovell | Feb 23 14:26 |
| oiaohm | Free software will work in any economy but its means to change quickly can be effected. | Feb 23 14:26 |
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| oiaohm | Development speed slow not die. | Feb 23 14:26 |
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| oiaohm | Of course we don't want its development speed slowing. | Feb 23 14:27 |
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| oiaohm | If MS is slowing it gives Linux a chance to get ahead as long as its not effected. | Feb 23 14:27 |
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| oiaohm | Idea that open source is 100 percent isolated from being effected is wrong. | Feb 23 14:28 |
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| MinceR | maybe it will slow after proprietary sw has already died out. | Feb 23 14:29 |
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| MinceR | at least when the last human dies. | Feb 23 14:29 |
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| MinceR | :> | Feb 23 14:29 |
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| oiaohm | Proprietary has the highest risk. | Feb 23 14:29 |
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| oiaohm | Reason there costs are not spreed. | Feb 23 14:29 |
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| schestowitz | Development likewise | Feb 23 14:29 |
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| schestowitz | Netscape Navigator... | Feb 23 14:30 |
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| MinceR | that's not the only reason. | Feb 23 14:30 |
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| oiaohm | It is really. | Feb 23 14:30 |
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| MinceR | repeated assertion isn't going to prove anything. | Feb 23 14:30 |
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| oiaohm | Open source there are a lot of system admins and the like that do put in code. | Feb 23 14:30 |
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| oiaohm | So cost of developers is spreed using what would have been in some cases wasted time. | Feb 23 14:31 |
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| MinceR | the low likelyhood of being able to resurrect a dead project (via forking, for example) increases risk. | Feb 23 14:31 |
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| oiaohm | Every line of code created costs something. | Feb 23 14:31 |
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| MinceR | lock-in increases risk. | Feb 23 14:31 |
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| oiaohm | Really the example to cover current events is sep 11 when the twin towers came down. | Feb 23 14:33 |
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| oiaohm | Lot of companies there were able to restruct and keep going using open source software. | Feb 23 14:34 |
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| oiaohm | Ones who did not died. | Feb 23 14:34 |
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| oiaohm | While it was really bad focus was not on development but just making things work and bring in profit. | Feb 23 14:34 |
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| oiaohm | Same thing risks happening now if we end up too deep. | Feb 23 14:35 |
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| MinceR | another factor that increases risk is that there's only one place you can go for support. | Feb 23 14:35 |
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| oiaohm | Note compainys from world trade who tried staying completely closed source no longer exist. | Feb 23 14:36 |
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| oiaohm | We have seen what can happen on the small scale in that event. | Feb 23 14:36 |
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| oiaohm | Open source is strong there is also issues with projects losing leads. Losing key lead developers can end a open source project due to infighting. | Feb 23 14:38 |
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| oiaohm | There are risks to open source from the current mess. | Feb 23 14:38 |
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| oiaohm | Ok nothing large enough to kill it out right. Still enough to cause trouble. | Feb 23 14:39 |
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| oiaohm | Only way to kill Open Source majorly would be if laws globally where passed that made it illegal. | Feb 23 14:40 |
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| oiaohm | I am talking about harm not death. | Feb 23 14:42 |
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| oiaohm | There is a major difference. | Feb 23 14:42 |
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| MinceR | i'm sure microsoft, apple and their flunkies are trying to come up with a way to make it illegal everywhere even as we speak. | Feb 23 14:47 |
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| MinceR | hopefully the rest of the world is powerful enough to hold them back | Feb 23 14:47 |
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| oiaohm | Apple limited | Feb 23 14:48 |
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| oiaohm | They heavly depend on a lot of open source stacks. | Feb 23 14:48 |
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| oiaohm | Most apple will want to do is slow open source not kill it. | Feb 23 14:49 |
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| oiaohm | Ie patents. | Feb 23 14:49 |
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| MinceR | they believe they've stolen enough stuff already, judging by their efforts to kill it | Feb 23 14:50 |
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| MinceR | sw patents would kill it. | Feb 23 14:50 |
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| oiaohm | They learnt expensive leasons. | Feb 23 14:50 |
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| oiaohm | Lot of what they stole caused them more problems. | Feb 23 14:51 |
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| MinceR | have they? | Feb 23 14:51 |
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| oiaohm | Than if they intergrated with the open source stack. | Feb 23 14:51 |
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| MinceR | have they realized that? will they ever care? | Feb 23 14:51 |
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| oiaohm | Cups was nasty. | Feb 23 14:52 |
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| MinceR | will they ever be willing to work with anyone while all they can think about is whether their god, steve jobs would approve of whatever they're doing at the time? | Feb 23 14:52 |
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| oiaohm | Drivers developed for Linux Freebsd and others did not work. | Feb 23 14:52 |
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| oiaohm | On apple due to there alterations. | Feb 23 14:52 |
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| MinceR | i think their corporate culture (if it can be called "culture" -- well, maybe in the sense of a culture of bacteria) disallows them from effectively cooperating with anyone outside the company. | Feb 23 14:53 |
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| oiaohm | khtml nicking cost them in fixing bugs. Since there alterations stopped most of the third party bug fixes from working. | Feb 23 14:53 |
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| oiaohm | It don't turn out as good as it first seams to fork away. | Feb 23 14:54 |
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| MinceR | well, that's kind of obvious to anyone but apple. | Feb 23 14:54 |
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| oiaohm | Basically apple has had to learn the leasons the hard way. | Feb 23 14:54 |
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| MinceR | or perhaps they really thought it's worth the trouble anyway. | Feb 23 14:54 |
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| MinceR | perhaps they're willing to do 3x the work if it means they get to keep their vision of serving only the stupidest user. | Feb 23 14:55 |
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| MinceR | and ignoring technical matters in all decisions. | Feb 23 14:55 |
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| oiaohm | Really apple does not have the resources to do 3x the work. | Feb 23 14:55 |
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| MinceR | then hopefully they'll die | Feb 23 14:56 |
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| oiaohm | They have enough resource sucking maintaining there graphical interface. | Feb 23 14:56 |
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| MinceR | and hopefully they'll drag their cult with them. | Feb 23 14:56 |
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| oiaohm | Now does software patents stop open source. From apples point of view no. Apple will sell anyone licences to use there patents. | Feb 23 14:57 |
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| oiaohm | Software patents do expire in time or get disproved by prior art. | Feb 23 14:57 |
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| oiaohm | Software patents is a slowing effect not a killing one. | Feb 23 14:58 |
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| MinceR | it merely keeps new and small players off the market | Feb 23 14:58 |
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| *Balrog (n=BRBT@livecd.ist.temple.edu) has joined #boycottnovell | Feb 23 14:58 |
| MinceR | which reduces the amount of developers available drastically. | Feb 23 14:58 |
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| schestowitz | Speaking of Apple, they too had financial misconduct noted | Feb 23 14:58 |
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| MinceR | and only the big bastards are left, who may or may not want to use it. | Feb 23 14:59 |
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| Balrog | http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/0... | Feb 23 14:59 |
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| schestowitz | I think they do better than Microsoft because they sell hardware, but that's about it | Feb 23 14:59 |
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| Balrog | you might have seen that though | Feb 23 14:59 |
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| schestowitz | Apple is virtually non existent in most of the world, just the rich parts of it | Feb 23 14:59 |
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| Balrog | well Apple is much more committed to open standards than MS. Not as much as we'd like, but still somewhat better | Feb 23 14:59 |
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| oiaohm | ipods and other i devices schestowitz kinda hold apple up. | Feb 23 14:59 |
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| MinceR | apple is committed to open standards? since when? | Feb 23 15:00 |
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| MinceR | they're definitely not committed to ODF, for example | Feb 23 15:00 |
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| Balrog | that's what I meant by 'not as much as we'd like' | Feb 23 15:00 |
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| Balrog | web standards is one example | Feb 23 15:00 |
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| Balrog | by not including flash on the iphone, and making their browser standards-compliant, web developers must write web pages properly | Feb 23 15:01 |
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| Balrog | if iphone users are to benefit | Feb 23 15:01 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: Apple is also very pro-lock-in | Feb 23 15:01 |
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| schestowitz | Some say worse than Windows | Feb 23 15:01 |
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| oiaohm | Lock in is apples nature. | Feb 23 15:01 |
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| MinceR | omitting flash might be because you need a monster of a machine to run it properly. | Feb 23 15:02 |
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| Balrog | I'm not denying that though | Feb 23 15:02 |
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| oiaohm | So far no one been able to prove that is not profitable to them. | Feb 23 15:02 |
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| schestowitz | As for standard, well.. they use some FOSS stacks, so through reuse they enable some portability in places | Feb 23 15:02 |
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| Balrog | and remember them pushing PDF (now an open standard) when MS was pushing XPS? | Feb 23 15:02 |
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| oiaohm | Apple is far less likely to expand a standard in a undocumented way. | Feb 23 15:02 |
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| oiaohm | Apple is not prefect. | Feb 23 15:03 |
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| Balrog | yes, or create a new widely used standard | Feb 23 15:03 |
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| Balrog | definitely not perfect .... | Feb 23 15:03 |
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| oiaohm | Apple was also one of the first to publish there network protocals with no strings attached. | Feb 23 15:03 |
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| Balrog | (I don't think even Sun is totally 'perfect' in that regard. True, they're better than Apple though.) | Feb 23 15:03 |
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| oiaohm | Apple has some good and some bad. | Feb 23 15:04 |
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| Balrog | Windows is not only pro lock-in but also a monopoly. So you have no choice with it. And API's change all the time. | Feb 23 15:04 |
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| oiaohm | Vendor lock in side is about Apple worse bit. | Feb 23 15:04 |
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| Balrog | oiaohm: I agree. | Feb 23 15:04 |
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| Balrog | well yeah; they just dropped that problem with itunes though | Feb 23 15:04 |
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| Balrog | (with drm free) | Feb 23 15:04 |
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| oiaohm | Try finding good that MS was not forced to do. | Feb 23 15:05 |
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| MinceR | they still sell drm-ed movies in itunes, don't they? | Feb 23 15:05 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: slashdot puts old news up? | Feb 23 15:05 |
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| schestowitz | 2008 in 2009 | Feb 23 15:05 |
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| MinceR | and non-itunes apps are still locked out of the newest ipods, aren't they? | Feb 23 15:05 |
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| Balrog | yeah, but would the media companies allow anything different? | Feb 23 15:05 |
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| oiaohm | Remember apple released there network protocals when they were the most dominate in the network without force being required. | Feb 23 15:05 |
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| schestowitz | "Posted by at June 24, 2008 " | Feb 23 15:05 |
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| MinceR | there are media companies that would | Feb 23 15:05 |
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| Balrog | heh. | Feb 23 15:05 |
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| oiaohm | Media companies are also pro lockin. | Feb 23 15:06 |
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| MinceR | the rest can look at their lost revenue and make up their minds. | Feb 23 15:06 |
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| Balrog | well probably down the road they will drop DRM on those movies | Feb 23 15:06 |
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| Balrog | I know. But people care for movies. | Feb 23 15:06 |
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| MinceR | also, remember that jobs owns a big chunk of disney | Feb 23 15:06 |
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| MinceR | if he were nearly as anti-drm as he keeps saying he is, something must have changed already. | Feb 23 15:06 |
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| MinceR | nothing happened. | Feb 23 15:06 |
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| Balrog | I know ... but we'll see | Feb 23 15:06 |
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| oiaohm | disney funny enough also support open source. | Feb 23 15:06 |
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| MinceR | in the apple way? | Feb 23 15:07 |
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| Balrog | well music (100% of it) is drm-free. That isn't a change? | Feb 23 15:07 |
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| Balrog | (on the itunes store) | Feb 23 15:07 |
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| Balrog | dropping DRM from apps ..... well the small independent developers are already up in arms | Feb 23 15:07 |
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| Balrog | (about crackulous and all) ... it's very easy to crack and distribute apps. | Feb 23 15:08 |
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| MinceR | it isn't a change regarding disney and movies, which i was talking about. | Feb 23 15:08 |
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| oiaohm | Disney maintains some open source animation software packages. | Feb 23 15:08 |
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| oiaohm | Yes a lot like apple. | Feb 23 15:08 |
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| MinceR | dropping drm from music could have well been a result of other stores dropping it or not introducing it a long time ago. | Feb 23 15:08 |
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| oiaohm | Back Digatal rights management on one hand and then on the other help development of tools. | Feb 23 15:08 |
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| schestowitz | oiaohm: Disnet doesn't support open source | Feb 23 15:08 |
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| MinceR | also, osx still has drm built into the executable format. | Feb 23 15:09 |
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| schestowitz | It uses some Linux for their non-Free software (merely a platform) | Feb 23 15:09 |
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| Balrog | you mean the encryption? That's been reversed and is soo weak | Feb 23 15:09 |
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| Balrog | (app encryption) | Feb 23 15:09 |
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| MinceR | yet it's there | Feb 23 15:09 |
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| MinceR | you can see the intention. | Feb 23 15:09 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: not 100% DRM-free | Feb 23 15:09 |
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| schestowitz | Apple charges to have it removed (30 cents | Feb 23 15:09 |
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| MinceR | also, you can see their intention behind screwing with dtrace (or what's it called) | Feb 23 15:09 |
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| Balrog | you didn't hear of tiered pricing? | Feb 23 15:09 |
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| Balrog | (70c, $1, $1.30 , all DRM free) | Feb 23 15:10 |
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| MinceR | schestowitz: so people can still buy drm-ed music from itunes, for less? | Feb 23 15:10 |
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| Balrog | nope. | Feb 23 15:11 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: They must have changed it | Feb 23 15:11 |
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| Balrog | you do have to pay if you already have drm'ed music | Feb 23 15:11 |
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| schestowitz | I think about January | Feb 23 15:11 |
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| Balrog | but if not, it's all DRM-free | Feb 23 15:11 |
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| Balrog | yeah that's when they did it | Feb 23 15:11 |
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| schestowitz | Defective by Design campaign protested as well. | Feb 23 15:11 |
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| Balrog | the announcement was at Macworld | Feb 23 15:11 |
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| schestowitz | Mac World... haha. | Feb 23 15:11 |
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| Balrog | yeah the last one :p | Feb 23 15:12 |
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| schestowitz | Kaput after issues, including the poisoning by MS employees (see the antitrust memo on schmoozing and crashing Apple events) | Feb 23 15:12 |
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| Balrog | I saw that | Feb 23 15:12 |
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| schestowitz | Mac 'world' | Feb 23 15:12 |
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| schestowitz | If the world is US, CA, Japan, AU, and EU | Feb 23 15:12 |
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| Balrog | I hear the economy has to do with that, as well as the poor timing of it (right after the holidays) | Feb 23 15:13 |
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| schestowitz | The 'world' doesn't knoe about Apple | Feb 23 15:13 |
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| Balrog | they used to have Macworld France | Feb 23 15:13 |
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| schestowitz | That is, 80% of the world's population doesn't have their products | Feb 23 15:13 |
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| schestowitz | Ask people in China or Brazil about Apple | Feb 23 15:13 |
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| schestowitz | Can you imagine Apple fanbois in Bangalore? | Feb 23 15:13 |
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| Balrog | I know .... there are some everywhere | Feb 23 15:15 |
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| schestowitz | Look at the Microsoft Friedshill Spreading PR/propaganda in Zeedeenet: http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-271841.html | Feb 23 15:15 |
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| schestowitz | It's like those cigarette companies... free cigarettes... love us, pay us, adore us... | Feb 23 15:16 |
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| MinceR | i thought the "world" was USA. | Feb 23 15:16 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: depends where you ask | Feb 23 15:16 |
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| oiaohm | http://panda3d.org/ << disney open source. Ie they developed that engine at first then released it to everyone. | Feb 23 15:16 |
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| MinceR | in the USA, of coure | Feb 23 15:16 |
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| MinceR | s/ure/urse/ | Feb 23 15:16 |
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| schestowitz | The world | Feb 23 15:16 |
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| schestowitz | Cyclic thing | Feb 23 15:16 |
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| oiaohm | And its not the first or the last time they will most likely do something like that. | Feb 23 15:16 |
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| Balrog | oh ... about dtrace, and even gdb blocking, that's easy to circumvent | Feb 23 15:16 |
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| MinceR | you mean there's something outside the USA? :> | Feb 23 15:16 |
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| MinceR | Balrog: of course it's easy | Feb 23 15:16 |
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| MinceR | Balrog: so it doesn't only show their malevolence, it also shows their contempt | Feb 23 15:17 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: yes, the nation called Africa | Feb 23 15:17 |
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| schestowitz | Although Palin claims she did not say that | Feb 23 15:17 |
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| MinceR | "we don't want you to look inside our products and you're so stupid you won't find these checks we've built in" | Feb 23 15:17 |
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| schestowitz | There was apparently just an exaggeration suggesting she though Africa was a nation | Feb 23 15:17 |
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| Balrog | also it probably has to do with licensing .... maybe somewhere in their agreement with the media companies they are forbidden to do that | Feb 23 15:17 |
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| MinceR | maybe the "programmers" who "work" for crApple really wouldn't | Feb 23 15:17 |
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| Balrog | also DVD player tracing is blocked. And I know that the agreements to get DVD-playback support 'legally' require you to block debugging | Feb 23 15:18 |
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| MinceR | i'm sure these agreements are one-sided, take it or leave it | Feb 23 15:18 |
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| MinceR | negotiation is impossible | Feb 23 15:18 |
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| Balrog | they are. The DVD agreements are probably the most well known | Feb 23 15:18 |
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| MinceR | they could have just used decss | Feb 23 15:19 |
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| Balrog | they could, but it's legally in a grey area (in the US) | Feb 23 15:19 |
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| schestowitz | Wikileaks is down | Feb 23 15:19 |
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| schestowitz | MAJOR exposure: http://twitter.com/glynmoody/stat... | Feb 23 15:19 |
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| schestowitz | Political cooruption. | Feb 23 15:19 |
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| Balrog | wikileaks is up | Feb 23 15:20 |
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| MinceR | it's not like they're blinding white legally otherwise | Feb 23 15:20 |
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| schestowitz | http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Secret_report_revea... | Feb 23 15:20 |
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| Balrog | works here. | Feb 23 15:20 |
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| schestowitz | Get all the content properly? | Feb 23 15:20 |
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| schestowitz | "Error: 503 Service Unavailable " | Feb 23 15:20 |
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| *oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Feb 23 15:20 |
| Balrog | no error 503 here | Feb 23 15:21 |
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| schestowitz | It asks for donation | Feb 23 15:21 |
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| Balrog | it does, and below is the content | Feb 23 15:22 |
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| schestowitz | Oh, it works now | Feb 23 15:22 |
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| schestowitz | No idea why it did that.. | Feb 23 15:23 |
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| Balrog | schestowitz: have you written about the DVD 'licensing' system? | Feb 23 15:24 |
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| Balrog | I'll be back in an hour | Feb 23 15:26 |
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| schestowitz | UK Government plans to criminalise Japanese Anime/Manga fans < http://www.youtube.com/watch?hl=en-GB... > | Feb 23 15:26 |
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| schestowitz | Balrog: which system? | Feb 23 15:27 |
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| Balrog | the whole licensing system for DVD and BD: the agreements that vendors have to sign to include these technologies in products | Feb 23 15:28 |
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| Balrog | (S. Jobs called the Blu-ray licensing system "a bag of hurt") | Feb 23 15:29 |
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| Balrog | but I'll be back | Feb 23 15:29 |
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| schestowitz | New Climate Law Institute to launch multipronged legal attack on causes of climate change < http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/index.php/csw/deta... > | Feb 23 15:31 |
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| schestowitz | We've just made the front page of Linux Today again. | Feb 23 15:32 |
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| schestowitz | It seems as though BN has done close to 2GB in the past 12 hours, which is good. | Feb 23 16:32 |
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| schestowitz | The Comes exhibits prove popular because they expose dark secrets that cannot be found somewhere else. We should do more of these really. | Feb 23 16:32 |
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| Balrog | true. | Feb 23 17:16 |
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| schestowitz | Someone thinks I should disable comments in BN now | Feb 23 17:19 |
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| schestowitz | He's venting about trolls being allowed | Feb 23 17:19 |
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| Balrog | not a good idea. | Feb 23 17:22 |
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| Balrog | removes transparency | Feb 23 17:22 |
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| schestowitz | What about IRC? | Feb 23 17:22 |
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| Balrog | ***** | Feb 23 17:22 |
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| schestowitz | ?? | Feb 23 17:22 |
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| Balrog | argh | Feb 23 17:22 |
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| Balrog | :( | Feb 23 17:22 |
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| Balrog | not goo | Feb 23 17:22 |
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| Balrog | good | Feb 23 17:22 |
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| Balrog | can you delete that from the log? | Feb 23 17:22 |
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| schestowitz | Sure | Feb 23 17:23 |
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| Balrog | fine. Somehow it got through :( | Feb 23 17:23 |
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| schestowitz | Strong password :-) | Feb 23 17:23 |
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| schestowitz | Not "tinkerbell" | Feb 23 17:23 |
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| Balrog | yeah but it's not the one I use online anyway :) | Feb 23 17:23 |
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| schestowitz | BN didn't get much trolling recently. | Feb 23 17:24 |
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| schestowitz | But one person who occasionally comments is pissed off. I mean, some commenters are attacked again.. | Feb 23 17:24 |
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| schestowitz | Back to 'eet' days when he would scare readers. | Feb 23 17:24 |
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| schestowitz | "Do you not have any common sense. All you've done is enable some troll to inject garbage like this into the record. Do you not realize you have to deny the astroturfers every opportunity to do their job. Why the f**k have an IRC channel at all if you are going to engage with them." | Feb 23 17:24 |
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| schestowitz | "All you've done is reduce BN to the level of [...] realize you don't ever engage with someone who calls you a freetard, the clue is in the words 'Alzheimers', 'freetard'." | Feb 23 17:24 |
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| schestowitz | "Your first mistake was responding to the first anonymous comment. By responding you let 'Dan O'Brian' jump in to piss all over BN, and call *you* freetard. Have you learned nothing from being trolled on COLA. In case you haven't realized it, BN is going [...], a platform for the astroturfers to beat up on anything non MICROS~1." | Feb 23 17:24 |
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| schestowitz | "Anyone who posts there gets runs into the danger of being contaminated with their crap. Which is why I dropped out. [...] If you want to continue shit slinging with these, then that's your business. This kind of 'dialog' contribute *nothing* to the cause. When are you going to get some sense and stop enabling the trolls." | Feb 23 17:24 |
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| schestowitz | Maybe we can close comments on particular types of posts that attract the Novell boosters | Feb 23 17:25 |
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| schestowitz | They can speak out in IRC | Feb 23 17:25 |
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| MinceR | you could start banning trolls | Feb 23 17:25 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: I'd rather not | Feb 23 17:25 |
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| MinceR | or even just autohide their messages, with a link to expand | Feb 23 17:25 |
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| schestowitz | No censorship | Feb 23 17:25 |
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| schestowitz | Disabling comments is no censorship if there's still IRC | Feb 23 17:26 |
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| MinceR | the latter is no censorship, yet it makes it easier to skip the crap | Feb 23 17:26 |
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| Balrog | utypi could do that ... like slashdot does | Feb 23 17:26 |
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| MinceR | indeed | Feb 23 17:26 |
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| Balrog | you* | Feb 23 17:26 |
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| schestowitz | They could game modding | Feb 23 17:26 |
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| schestowitz | Or whine if it's done by writer who suppresses dissent | Feb 23 17:27 |
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| schestowitz | I know which items are damaging to Novell | Feb 23 17:27 |
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| schestowitz | Like this last one | Feb 23 17:27 |
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| MinceR | if the content can be shown, it isn't really suppression :> | Feb 23 17:27 |
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| Balrog | show a snippet of the content | Feb 23 17:27 |
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| schestowitz | I knew when I posted it (I could feel it), that they won't sit quielly and soon enough came 'anonymous' indeed | Feb 23 17:27 |
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| Balrog | heh | Feb 23 17:32 |
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| Balrog | I know some people with that attitude. | Feb 23 17:32 |
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| schestowitz | That 'anonymous' is morphing.. | Feb 23 17:36 |
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| schestowitz | I can see the host name | Feb 23 17:36 |
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| Balrog | I know. | Feb 23 17:36 |
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| schestowitz | It's not someone new | Feb 23 17:36 |
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| Balrog | a known troll? | Feb 23 17:36 |
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| schestowitz | I don't want to end comments because of this as that would mean they get their way (ruining the site). | Feb 23 17:37 |
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| Balrog | ending comments would not be good for transparency | Feb 23 17:37 |
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| Balrog | I know of several sites that don't have comments; few people read them | Feb 23 17:37 |
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| MinceR | a snippet like "DURRRRRR HURRRRRRRR [Read more...]" ;) | Feb 23 17:41 |
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| Balrog | heh | Feb 23 17:53 |
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| Balrog | schestowitz: do IP's go into the public IRC logs? | Feb 23 17:56 |
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| Balrog | I'd assume not | Feb 23 17:56 |
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| MinceR | it seems that the hostname is recorded as shown in the join message | Feb 23 18:00 |
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| MinceR | luckily, mine is rarely shown | Feb 23 18:00 |
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| Balrog | heh. | Feb 23 18:02 |
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| Balrog | I'm on a university network though | Feb 23 18:02 |
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| Balrog | it would be nice if that part could be anonymized | Feb 23 18:03 |
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| jose | http://www.linuxtoday.com/developer... | Feb 23 18:09 |
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| jose | I posted a comment there about how Novell might have fired opensuse devs in order to focus on more ms-centric distros. | Feb 23 18:10 |
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| jose | perhaps opensuse is seeded enough | Feb 23 18:10 |
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| jose | time to put the dollars to better use | Feb 23 18:10 |
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| Balrog | heh | Feb 23 18:11 |
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| Balrog | there's something about opensuse that attracts people to it | Feb 23 18:11 |
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| schestowitz | jose: I hear the layoffs will hit Germany | Feb 23 18:12 |
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| schestowitz | I.e. suse, for all I can tell | Feb 23 18:12 |
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| schestowitz | Yikes! "One of the biggest changes to this release of Coyote Linux is the use of C# as the primary development language used for most of the administration, configuration, and maintenance utilities." | Feb 23 18:14 |
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| schestowitz | http://coyotelinux.com/2009/01/coyote-... | Feb 23 18:14 |
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| Balrog | eww | Feb 23 18:14 |
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| *zer0c00l has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Feb 23 18:15 |
| Balrog | I won't be using it :( | Feb 23 18:15 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Jos... | Feb 23 18:15 |
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| MinceR | i'm glad i stopped using it long ago | Feb 23 18:15 |
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| schestowitz | http://wareseeker.com/free-joshua-jackson-net/ | Feb 23 18:15 |
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| schestowitz | Is this related? | Feb 23 18:16 |
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| MinceR | ho do they propose to fit it on one floppy now? | Feb 23 18:16 |
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| schestowitz | That's the guy: http://www.eggheadcafe.com/software/aspnet/... | Feb 23 18:16 |
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| schestowitz | "I am currently working to get a test cluster online using Windows 2008 Datacenter x64 with SQL2005 Enterprise x64. Although the 2008 cluster is up and reports that it is running fine and shared storage is attached and online, SQL setup does not give me the option to create a failover cluster (the checkbox is greyed out)." | Feb 23 18:17 |
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| schestowitz | Seems like a bit of a MSFTer | Feb 23 18:17 |
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| schestowitz | It's definitely him: "Joshua Jackson; Vortech Consulting" | Feb 23 18:17 |
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| schestowitz | So he loves Microsoft technologies in general, this he wants a c#-centric Linux | Feb 23 18:18 |
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| *jose has quit ("Leaving") | Feb 23 18:18 |
| Balrog | also it's tied to MSVC | Feb 23 18:19 |
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| Balrog | which is definitely not FOSS | Feb 23 18:19 |
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| balzac | I've come up with a couple of bits of new language to use for proprietary software licenses | Feb 23 18:21 |
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| balzac | I call them archaic, paranoia-inducing, bad-vibe licenses | Feb 23 18:21 |
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| Balrog | well most of them | Feb 23 18:22 |
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| balzac | RMS calls them "dirty licenses" in his free software song | Feb 23 18:22 |
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| Balrog | I've seen some proprietary licenses that are quite clean | Feb 23 18:22 |
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| Balrog | like the one for the Crayon Physics Deluxe game | Feb 23 18:22 |
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| Balrog | but those are in the minority | Feb 23 18:23 |
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| balzac | well, if the license is ready to invoke the force of federal law against an individual recipient of the licensed software, that's a bad start | Feb 23 18:23 |
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| Balrog | well it basically says "don't copy and redistribute" in addition to the usual warranty disclaimer | Feb 23 18:24 |
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| schestowitz | Hmmmmm..... | Feb 23 18:24 |
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| schestowitz | I guess there's a cost in bringing over Wndows developers over. | Feb 23 18:24 |
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| schestowitz | They try to turn this /cheap/ Linux thing into another thing they already know | Feb 23 18:25 |
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| schestowitz | Using c# and all.. | Feb 23 18:25 |
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| Balrog | well that shouldn't be necessary | Feb 23 18:25 |
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| Balrog | c# is quite new | Feb 23 18:25 |
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| Balrog | I'll be back later | Feb 23 18:25 |
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| balzac | http://digg.com/business_finance/If_You_S... | Feb 23 18:47 |
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| balzac | http://www.imagevat.com/picview.php?ig=146 | Feb 23 18:47 |
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| balzac | the original link to the pic got past its bandwidth limit | Feb 23 18:48 |
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| schestowitz | :-) | Feb 23 18:49 |
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| schestowitz | When was bailout renamed stimulus to make it sound positive? | Feb 23 18:49 |
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| balzac | well, it depends on how it's distributed | Feb 23 18:55 |
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| balzac | the bailout was for bank executives to buy new yachts | Feb 23 18:55 |
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| balzac | maybe the "stimulus" will include a check to me | Feb 23 18:55 |
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| balzac | Obama has said that CEO pay must be capped for bailed-out banks, so now they wan't to return the money so they can get more than half a million a year as CEO. | Feb 23 18:56 |
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| schestowitz | Start your copiers... print more cash | Feb 23 18:56 |
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| balzac | Turns out they didn't need the money quite so badly as they thought. | Feb 23 18:56 |
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| schestowitz | Need is a subjective word. Larry Ellison needs a huge yacht | Feb 23 18:57 |
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| balzac | But what's bothering me is not so much the economic issues, but whether or not Obama will close the secret prisons. | Feb 23 18:57 |
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| balzac | Or whether or not Bush will go on trial. | Feb 23 18:57 |
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| balzac | absolutely | Feb 23 18:58 |
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| balzac | I want Bush to be waterboarded until he confesses to hating America with a fiery passion | Feb 23 18:58 |
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| balzac | and spills the digits of all his secret bank accounts | Feb 23 18:58 |
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| balzac | waterboard that m*****f****r | Feb 23 18:59 |
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| balzac | Don't stop until he gets enough! | Feb 23 18:59 |
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| balzac | we have yet to see the trend with Obama, whether he's going to aid and abet the plundering of the working class by the elite, or whether we're going to see some recovery of what has been stolen. | Feb 23 19:05 |
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| schestowitz | http://twitter.com/glynmoody/statuses/1241306029 "Buzzphrase of the Week: "Red Hat Announces Broad ISV Ecosystem is Virtualization-Ready" Wot, not clouds?" | Feb 23 19:05 |
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| schestowitz | You talk about Obama as though he's special | Feb 23 19:06 |
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| schestowitz | These people have always been shaped, wrapped and sold by PR firms | Feb 23 19:06 |
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| schestowitz | After careful selection | Feb 23 19:06 |
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| balzac | we'll see what happens. | Feb 23 19:06 |
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| schestowitz | And the Bush regime added remarks like "by Jesus" | Feb 23 19:06 |
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| schestowitz | Bush himself thinks of himself as a saint | Feb 23 19:06 |
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| schestowitz | But they are all contrrolled by other people | Feb 23 19:06 |
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| schestowitz | Else they go the way of Paul or Nader | Feb 23 19:07 |
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| schestowitz | Not media darling <=> funding <==> obedience | Feb 23 19:07 |
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| balzac | Roy, what about Kucinich? | Feb 23 19:07 |
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| balzac | you mention Ron Paul and Ralph Nader, but Kucinich is the man. | Feb 23 19:07 |
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| schestowitz | US shift spurs on global mercury pollution deal < http://www.euractiv.com/en/environment/u... > | Feb 23 19:08 |
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| toros | hi | Feb 23 19:09 |
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| schestowitz | balzac: I doubt anyone -- Kucinich -- can rise to power without endorsement from rogue interests | Feb 23 19:09 |
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| balzac | well, that's one perspective | Feb 23 19:10 |
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| schestowitz | When a state become a rogue state, then it preserves its ill state until /PEOPLE/ (who are sadly brainwashed) weigh in. | Feb 23 19:10 |
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| schestowitz | Hey, toros | Feb 23 19:10 |
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| amd-linux | too sad most of you dont speak German - there is a beautiful article in the Financial Times Germany that tears MS apart and stomps on the fragments - Roy couldnt have written it sharper :-) | Feb 23 19:10 |
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| amd-linux | http://www.ftd.de/boersen_maerkte/aktien/ma... | Feb 23 19:10 |
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| amd-linux | It is called "How MS saves the world" | Feb 23 19:11 |
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| toros | amd-linux: danke... ;) | Feb 23 19:11 |
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| amd-linux | Totally bashing Vista, Vista 7 and MWS attitude in general - I m too lazy to translate it completely | Feb 23 19:12 |
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| amd-linux | Bitte :-) | Feb 23 19:12 |
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| amd-linux | Now FT is not really know for being biased against a giant like MS, so if quiet analysts start ranting.... | Feb 23 19:13 |
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| schestowitz | Sounds provoking. | Feb 23 19:14 |
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| schestowitz | See http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/02/mi... | Feb 23 19:14 |
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| schestowitz | amd-linux: Times is kind of OK | Feb 23 19:14 |
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| schestowitz | They have in the Financial Times some guy called Richard Waters, IIRC, who is pro-Microsoft | Feb 23 19:15 |
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| schestowitz | Let me see what I can dig | Feb 23 19:15 |
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| schestowitz | Yeah... http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&c2co... | Feb 23 19:16 |
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| amd-linux | yeah, the guy who wrote this is probably new to the FT :-) and will receive a call from the editor after the editor received a call from Unterschleissheim (MS HO Germany) | Feb 23 19:16 |
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| schestowitz | He usually pops up in Microsoft talking point pieces and anti-Linux too | Feb 23 19:16 |
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| toros | amd-linux: thanks, it is funny (and true)... :) | Feb 23 19:16 |
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| schestowitz | toros: worry not, the 'press' is dying anyway | Feb 23 19:16 |
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| schestowitz | Times too was firing people massively (more than other sectors I imagine) | Feb 23 19:17 |
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| amd-linux | well, but I still like to read a physical newspaper... I am from the "old" generation", I need some paper | Feb 23 19:17 |
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| amd-linux | I like the Kindle but still, a book is a book | Feb 23 19:17 |
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| schestowitz | It's down to smaller voices, I reckon. I have good fun exposing bloggers who take Microsoft money to do their deeds. | Feb 23 19:17 |
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| schestowitz | Don't you want to keep the paper? | Feb 23 19:18 |
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| schestowitz | How about bits of it? | Feb 23 19:18 |
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| amd-linux | :-) | Feb 23 19:18 |
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| schestowitz | If I love something I read, I find comfirt in the fact that I can bookmark or search for it later, maybe even copy a fragment. | Feb 23 19:18 |
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| schestowitz | *confirt | Feb 23 19:18 |
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| schestowitz | *comfort (right the third time) | Feb 23 19:18 |
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| amd-linux | BTW in one article you wrote "Groklow" ionstead of Groklaw - my English is not good enough but was this nintentional and what does it mean | Feb 23 19:19 |
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| schestowitz | I've been paperless since around 2002. Whatever paper I had left that's necessary I just scanned. | Feb 23 19:19 |
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| toros | I prefer printing longer articles and read them while bathing | Feb 23 19:19 |
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| amd-linux | well in my profession, I love papaer :-) | Feb 23 19:19 |
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| schestowitz | I have no printer, so it only goes one way: physical -> digital | Feb 23 19:19 |
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| toros | I need a waterproof e-book ;) | Feb 23 19:19 |
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| toros | I mean e-book reader | Feb 23 19:19 |
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| schestowitz | You can't organise paper in 'sub-trees'.. nor search or share them digitally. | Feb 23 19:19 |
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| amd-linux | and I need paper - for annotations, comments etc | Feb 23 19:20 |
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| schestowitz | toros: for sauna or such stuff? | Feb 23 19:20 |
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| schestowitz | I used to think about it when I used my Palm by the poolside...but it's stupid. | Feb 23 19:20 |
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| amd-linux | haha Kindle in the sauna :-) | Feb 23 19:20 |
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| schestowitz | Sounds bad.. | Feb 23 19:20 |
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| amd-linux | I am not sure if it will work in a 70 degree environment :-) | Feb 23 19:21 |
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| schestowitz | I think it would | Feb 23 19:21 |
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| toros | schestowitz: for reading in the bathtube | Feb 23 19:21 |
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| schestowitz | Just not comfortable to hold if you leave it off hand for a while | Feb 23 19:21 |
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| amd-linux | maybe, but when the sweat runs over it..... | Feb 23 19:21 |
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| schestowitz | Same with some chains or necklaces really, especially in dry | Feb 23 19:22 |
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| amd-linux | BTW, anything new about the ballmer-dropping-hardware-in-catalonia story? | Feb 23 19:22 |
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| MinceR | http://static.thepiratebay.o... | Feb 23 19:22 |
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| schestowitz | submit bug report to Jeff Bozo | Feb 23 19:22 |
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| schestowitz | Maybe they'll do a Kindurable | Feb 23 19:22 |
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| schestowitz | Without DRM.. | Feb 23 19:23 |
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| MinceR | f'Kindurable? :> | Feb 23 19:23 |
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| schestowitz | amd-linux: only the Germans covered it in English. | Feb 23 19:23 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: I saw that earlier.. Simon Phipps' blog | Feb 23 19:23 |
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| schestowitz | f'Kindurable won't last a minute in the sauna.. f'Kindurabl | Feb 23 19:24 |
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| schestowitz | http://thederringdos.com/wp-content/uplo... | Feb 23 19:24 |
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| amd-linux | very good cartoon, sums up the whole problem of an industry that is unable to realize that the old plan is not working any more | Feb 23 19:27 |
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| schestowitz | What's up with Groklaw...? http://www.groklaw.net/index.php Too quiet... it's a waste of potential right there, she should hand over some edit privs to the participants. | Feb 23 19:35 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.moneyweb.co.za/mw/view/mw... "I predicted open source software would go mainstream in 2009." | Feb 23 19:43 |
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| schestowitz | More ODF support (new): http://www.prweb.com/releases/elg... | Feb 23 19:59 |
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| schestowitz | Nvidia cuts out reviewers for the GTS250 < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/123/1051... > | Feb 23 20:04 |
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| schestowitz | Vodafone Said to Plan Hundreds of Job Cuts at U.K. Division < http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2060... > | Feb 23 20:09 |
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| schestowitz | Madoff Victims Face Grim Prospects in Court: Jane Bryant Quinn < http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2060121... > | Feb 23 20:11 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft wields axe then twists knife < http://www.daniweb.com/blogs/entry4028.html > | Feb 23 20:14 |
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| schestowitz | Google still snubs AGPL(v3). I'm surprised almost no-one reports about this anymore. | Feb 23 20:19 |
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| amarsh04 | I'm waiting to see if HP succeeds in dropping employee wages in .au | Feb 23 20:25 |
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| amarsh04 | they changed security companies, advertised above award wages, then offered reduced wages | Feb 23 20:26 |
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| schestowitz | They did this in the UK (wage drops) | Feb 23 20:28 |
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| schestowitz | They also sacked many people in EDS here (they acquired the company) | Feb 23 20:29 |
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| amarsh04 | quoting the letter in front of me: "we regret to inform you that we do not currently have a position available for you as a Security Officer at the EDS Lockleys site." | Feb 23 20:30 |
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| amarsh04 | the site is 20000 square metres of office space | Feb 23 20:31 |
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| schestowitz | There was backlash. Let me find something... | Feb 23 20:33 |
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| amarsh04 | thanks | Feb 23 20:33 |
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| schestowitz | I've found the article I read at the time: HP's EDS acquisition to kill 24,600 jobs < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/1... > | Feb 23 20:34 |
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| schestowitz | "With Mark Hurd "the butcher" leading consolidation efforts at HP, employees could all but brace themselves for some substantial job culling." | Feb 23 20:34 |
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| amarsh04 | the 2008 EDS .au Christmas parties were also cancelled | Feb 23 20:36 |
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| amarsh04 | the other interesting thing is that EDS aren't the sole tennants where I work | Feb 23 20:51 |
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| amarsh04 | the other tennant may object to changes that HP/EDS want to bring about | Feb 23 20:51 |
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| schestowitz | Oh, I see.... | Feb 23 20:52 |
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| schestowitz | If it makes you feel any better, the UK is in debt of $3 trillion according to one yardstick....and now this Hollywoodian spin on it: Brown launches 'recovery' website < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7905279.stm > | Feb 23 20:53 |
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| amarsh04 | the new security company will not have sufficient experienced staff to look after the site either | Feb 23 20:54 |
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| schestowitz | "Six out of every 10 employees stole company data when they left their job last year, said a study of US workers." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7902989.stm | Feb 23 20:54 |
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| amarsh04 | last IT jobs I had, I had root access to main machines until I finished... I left everything in the best possible shape and without stealing data | Feb 23 20:57 |
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| schestowitz | In one of my jobs I had the power to disconnect the whole university | Feb 23 20:58 |
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| schestowitz | It's a lot to do with trust. | Feb 23 20:59 |
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| amarsh04 | yes, they probably had a well-founded trust after I added back-up scripts to make it easier to restore recent versions of known good configurations | Feb 23 21:00 |
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| amarsh04 | I maintained dns/dhcp for adelaide.edu.au for a while | Feb 23 21:00 |
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| schestowitz | T: Security researcher Kaminsky pushes DNS patching < http://www.linuxworld.com.au/article/27734... > | Feb 23 21:11 |
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| schestowitz | "Old SuSE is dead and gone, and not coming back. " http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?lt... | Feb 23 21:11 |
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| schestowitz | "WHY they still keep de icaza and his cronies ? How EXACTLY do they fit into their business plan ? How much revenue have they and their products generated for novell ? They have been with novell for years now, so surely they MUST be productive, right ?" | Feb 23 21:12 |
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| schestowitz | "Novell is going the same way as sun which harbours many 'developers' who write 'la-la' s/w that never sees the light of day ( and shouldn't), earning great salaries at the expense of those that CAN contribute to their bottom line ( or top line)." http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3... | Feb 23 21:12 |
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| schestowitz | "Return SUSE to those that made it, what it once was, FREE of Microsoft !. So hold on to it to push ASP .Net BS !, good luck Novell, as much luck as you have had so far. Set SuSE free, and Goodbye !." http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3... | Feb 23 21:13 |
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| amarsh04 | interesting reference on pretexting in .us: http://www.epic.org/alert/EPIC_... | Feb 23 21:32 |
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| trmanco | haha,funny, look at this | Feb 23 21:39 |
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| trmanco | "as a bonus, apparently some of the applications that would crash | Feb 23 21:39 |
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| trmanco | in Microsoft Windows, no longer crash in wine." | Feb 23 21:39 |
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| toros | good night | Feb 23 21:45 |
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| PetoKraus | hmm i take it that the "de-class-lawsuit" thing of Vista Capable is not really Good Thingâ⢠| Feb 23 21:50 |
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| trmanco | schestowitz, this link doesn't work -> http://tech.yahoo.com/news/ap/20070928/... | Feb 23 21:51 |
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| schestowitz | Old stuff | Feb 23 21:54 |
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| schestowitz | I have the original too | Feb 23 21:54 |
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| trmanco | schestowitz, do you remember the formula? | Feb 23 21:54 |
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| schestowitz | Several | Feb 23 21:54 |
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| -tomaw-[Global Notice] Hi all, as you probably noticed our services took a short break there. They're back online now and we're investigating the cause of the crash. Thanks for using freenode and sorry for the inconvenience! | Feb 23 22:00 |
| schestowitz | PetoKraus: doesn't matter much | Feb 23 22:00 |
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| *schestowitz hugs ChanServ ("where have you been !!") | Feb 23 22:00 |
| schestowitz | What BearingPoint’s Chapter 11 filing means to you and me http://blogs.zdnet.com/Mur... | Feb 23 22:23 |
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| Balrog_ | hey everyone | Feb 23 22:34 |
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| schestowitz | http://withinreason.blogspot.com/2009/02/mand... | Feb 23 22:35 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: "First Google had their "Google Desktop" that mostly went nowhere. Then came Chrome, the browser that threatened to "out cool" any other browser." http://www.zdnetasia.com/techguide/opensource/... | Feb 23 22:46 |
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| Balrog_ | heh...kde on fedora is great | Feb 23 22:47 |
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| Balrog_ | chrome is windows-only | Feb 23 22:47 |
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| Balrog_ | so it leaves out ~15% of the userbase | Feb 23 22:47 |
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| MinceR | android on a laptop is like windows ce on a laptop | Feb 23 22:48 |
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| MinceR | chrome was designed to be non-portable | Feb 23 22:48 |
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| Balrog_ | as least Android is foss | Feb 23 22:48 |
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| Balrog_ | and people are working on taking it apart and using some parts to improve linux on the desktop | Feb 23 22:49 |
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| trmanco | http://www.chicadelatele.com/wp-cont... | Feb 23 22:49 |
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| MinceR | i hope this google linux nightmare won't come true | Feb 23 22:49 |
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| Balrog_ | yeah | Feb 23 22:50 |
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| Balrog_ | but I don't think Google can violate GPL | Feb 23 22:50 |
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| MinceR | somehow i don't feel like having my apps migrate to a retarded gui and java | Feb 23 22:50 |
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| Balrog_ | with limits | Feb 23 22:50 |
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| Balrog_ | java has its problems | Feb 23 22:50 |
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| Balrog_ | :/ | Feb 23 22:50 |
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| MinceR | and google's version of it adds its own problems | Feb 23 22:55 |
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| Balrog_ | tell me more | Feb 23 22:56 |
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| MinceR | for example, it has no JIT | Feb 23 22:59 |
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| MinceR | so we can expect performance penalties, but no improvements. | Feb 23 22:59 |
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| MinceR | otherwise, i'm not quite sure, but i don't have much trust in this dalvik thing. | Feb 23 22:59 |
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| schestowitz | Mac neglect, Linux first:" dmd has an X86 code generator. It currently targets Windows and Linux. But now that the Mac is on X86 machines, it opens the possibility for a straightforward implementation of dmd on the Mac. The only way to find out how feasible it is is to get a Mac and get to work on it. " http://www.ddj.com/development-... | Feb 23 23:06 |
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| MinceR | mac deserves to be neglected | Feb 23 23:14 |
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| Balrog_ | ehh I wouldn't say so | Feb 23 23:14 |
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| Balrog_ | when it comes to compilers, stuff gets tricky | Feb 23 23:14 |
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| Balrog_ | (with any platform) | Feb 23 23:15 |
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| Balrog_ | also they're working on an LLVM-backend D compiler | Feb 23 23:26 |
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| schestowitz | For some reason, Tab Mix in Firefox stopped expanding to a new row when space runs out. It does not obey the option and I don't think I've changed anything. | Feb 23 23:27 |
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| schestowitz | Study: Federal Gov't Can Save Billions in IT Spending < http://www.pcworld.com/article/159952/study_federal_govt_c... > | Feb 23 23:28 |
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| MinceR | http://miscellanea.wellingtongrey.n... | Feb 23 23:36 |
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| schestowitz | WTF? Another fools compares FOSS to communism: "The barrier between user and provider is eroded; a direct agreement between society members is maintained… Marx would have been a Firefox user. (188–89)" http://www.monthlyreview.org/090216grey.php | Feb 23 23:39 |
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| trmanco | https://www.fsf.org/news/endsoftwa... | Feb 23 23:43 |
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| oiaohm | Supprisingly it takes ages to compress 10 GB of data. So I have some time to kill. | Feb 23 23:45 |
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| MinceR | Marx is often misquoted. | Feb 23 23:47 |
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| MinceR | some time to kill people! | Feb 23 23:48 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: *LOL* good cartoon | Feb 23 23:49 |
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| Balrog_ | FOSS isn't communism, because you aren't forced to use it | Feb 23 23:54 |
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| Balrog_ | (or what most people call communism) | Feb 23 23:54 |
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| Balrog_ | and you aren't forced to give back to the community if you don't want to (though the GPL requires it if you want to take advantage of certain parts of FOSS) | Feb 23 23:54 |
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| schestowitz | Only if you modify | Feb 23 23:56 |
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| Balrog_ | if you modify certain parts | Feb 23 23:56 |
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| Balrog_ | that is | Feb 23 23:56 |
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| Balrog_ | or link to certain parts | Feb 23 23:56 |
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| Balrog_ | (I meant linking) | Feb 23 23:56 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, but it's a tired myth | Feb 23 23:57 |
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| schestowitz | Communism is Apple/Microsoft | Feb 23 23:57 |
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| Balrog_ | I know I know.... | Feb 23 23:57 |
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| schestowitz | But the brainwash persists | Feb 23 23:57 |
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| schestowitz | They try to use the image of RMS to associated it with Marx | Feb 23 23:57 |
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| schestowitz | *associate | Feb 23 23:57 |
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| Balrog_ | true. Microsoft is the real problem because you have no choice with them | Feb 23 23:57 |
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| Balrog_ | you buy a PC, it has to come with Windows | Feb 23 23:58 |
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| oiaohm | RMS has always been a bit of a wild card. | Feb 23 23:58 |
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| Balrog_ | yeah :/ | Feb 23 23:59 |
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