To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
| schestowitz | http://brucebyfield.wordpress.com/2009... "Still, while I wish the Linux Foundation every success with its new community-oriented version of the site and hope to do some writing for it, I am sorry to hear that the new site will not be focusing on journalism." I'm not sure old linux.com was, either. | Mar 05 00:25 |
|---|---|---|
| schestowitz | *LOL** http://bushweed.blogspot.com/2009... | Mar 05 00:46 |
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| tessier_ | http://tracyreed.org/blog/2009/03/0... | Mar 05 00:49 |
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| tessier_ | schestowitz: Someone in my LUG was assaulted recently for wearing a Linux shirt and teaching Linux classes I just found out. | Mar 05 00:49 |
| schestowitz | Goons. | Mar 05 00:50 |
| schestowitz | I'll add to BN (and COLA) | Mar 05 00:50 |
| tessier_ | Don't link to my blog.... | Mar 05 00:50 |
| tessier_ | Well, you can if you want. But as soon as the kernel-panic email archives come back up you can link to Roberts actual email if you want. | Mar 05 00:51 |
| tessier_ | Right now the machine is having problems. | Mar 05 00:51 |
| schestowitz | I guess we see who the "fanatics" are | Mar 05 00:51 |
| schestowitz | Boycott Novell protesters too were removed by force in Kochi | Mar 05 00:52 |
| schestowitz | tessier: I'll get the text anyway | Mar 05 00:52 |
| tessier_ | ok | Mar 05 00:52 |
| tessier_ | http://www.kernel-panic.org/piper... | Mar 05 01:20 |
| tessier_ | There ya go | Mar 05 01:21 |
| schestowitz | Hehe. "Is this the new Luddism?" | Mar 05 01:23 |
| schestowitz | Maybe they take inspiration from Microsoft's CEO. "I'm going to __ this guy" | Mar 05 01:23 |
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| tessier_ | http://tracyreed.org/blog/2009/03/04... | Mar 05 01:38 |
| tessier_ | There. Updated with a link to Robert's email to the list and a pic of my old car with the Linux bumper sticker. | Mar 05 01:38 |
| schestowitz | I've linked to the ML already | Mar 05 01:38 |
| tessier_ | My new car has the same sticker but I don't have a pic of it. | Mar 05 01:38 |
| tessier_ | Cool. Perfect. | Mar 05 01:38 |
| schestowitz | "Linux" is the new "communism", eh? | Mar 05 01:38 |
| tessier_ | I wouldn't say that. | Mar 05 01:38 |
| schestowitz | "Hey you!" Red thread (Red Hat) | Mar 05 01:38 |
| tessier_ | Last thing we need is people making that association. | Mar 05 01:38 |
| schestowitz | *threat | Mar 05 01:38 |
| tessier_ | If anything Microsoft are the fascists. | Mar 05 01:39 |
| *schestowitz lacks tone for sarcasm | Mar 05 01:39 | |
| schestowitz | I think "totality" | Mar 05 01:39 |
| schestowitz | It's like a faction of diplomats protecting their power | Mar 05 01:39 |
| schestowitz | Forget about elections (tender) | Mar 05 01:39 |
| schestowitz | Forget about choice (when buying a computer.. must be saddled with Vista) | Mar 05 01:40 |
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| jose | hey, not sure who is paying attention now, but... | Mar 05 02:20 |
| jose | i was on earlier talking about patents and.. | Mar 05 02:20 |
| jose | i was just recently thinking of an analogy (hopefully a very direct connection) | Mar 05 02:20 |
| jose | with literature (sw <-> literature) | Mar 05 02:20 |
| jose | in particular, both nonfiction and fiction | Mar 05 02:20 |
| schestowitz | Yes.. I listne | Mar 05 02:21 |
| jose | i was going to say that judge rulings would then be patentable | Mar 05 02:21 |
| schestowitz | Maybe it's worth doing Part II on patents on. | Mar 05 02:21 |
| jose | but then thought that maybe the (us) government could violate patents | Mar 05 02:21 |
| schestowitz | Oh, yeah... court cases | Mar 05 02:21 |
| schestowitz | Lawyers can patent arguments | Mar 05 02:21 |
| schestowitz | Or litigation strategy | Mar 05 02:21 |
| schestowitz | BM patents | Mar 05 02:22 |
| jose | is this correct.. can i as a developer working for or on behalf of the us government use and create patented material in the use without issues | Mar 05 02:22 |
| jose | ? | Mar 05 02:22 |
| jose | if so, then I propose that the gov extend a token job to all FOSS developers for that purpose | Mar 05 02:22 |
| schestowitz | "Your hours, the plaintiff is infringing on my intellectual property in the courtroom" | Mar 05 02:22 |
| schestowitz | Paying royalties for lawsuit streatgy | Mar 05 02:22 |
| jose | schestowitz, part 2 of that other thing is something for which i have specific goals | Mar 05 02:22 |
| schestowitz | OK, no rush | Mar 05 02:22 |
| jose | but i have not had time.. and i'm trying to milk part 1 as much as possible | Mar 05 02:23 |
| jose | for the time being, i'd rather work on other linux-y projects .. but if i see a good opportunity to plant a nail in coffin, for example, i will move onto part 2 | Mar 05 02:24 |
| jose | separately, i am thinking about writing something up if possible along the lines of some of the latest postings on unconstitutionality of sw patents. | Mar 05 02:25 |
| jose | united states | Mar 05 02:25 |
| jose | schestowitz, do you know about the patent thing and the us gov immunity and how that might work? | Mar 05 02:26 |
| jose | patents are written up by those that like that industry, so i don't expect too many patents about judicial proceedings. | Mar 05 02:27 |
| jose | but i think the language of patents can be hacked by legal mortals to enough success to be granted the patent | Mar 05 02:27 |
| tessier_ | http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/co... | Mar 05 02:28 |
| tessier_ | hah... | Mar 05 02:28 |
| jose | that link earlier to slashdot about the bill to change patent law made me almost depressed | Mar 05 02:28 |
| jose | i glanced over it and expect that it is an effort to make an unworkable system workable.. to our detriment | Mar 05 02:29 |
| jose | since i just saw hints that the worst parts of the law were not being changed | Mar 05 02:29 |
| jose | ..like having a req for no prior art.. that is a very weak req.. it's ridiculous to give monopolies to the first person (to patent) | Mar 05 02:30 |
| jose | but worse | Mar 05 02:30 |
| jose | the bill changes in the beginning suggest to me | Mar 05 02:30 |
| jose | that they want to fix the issues of many people having related patents because they worked around the same time and partially together | Mar 05 02:31 |
| jose | that would be more workable (solving what i heard was an issue for mpeg4) | Mar 05 02:31 |
| jose | and it would mean i think less money for everyone, but it would still be bad | Mar 05 02:31 |
| jose | i think it might even try to remove the monopoly power for rand | Mar 05 02:31 |
| jose | which can be bad if no exceptions/boundaries are given for FOSS | Mar 05 02:32 |
| schestowitz | jose: IANAL, but I heard it somewhere. | Mar 05 02:32 |
| jose | people might not appreciate that this "improved" system might put foss more under the control of big companies in a workable way | Mar 05 02:32 |
| jose | marginalize | Mar 05 02:32 |
| jose | i think i saw "rand" mentioned as a change | Mar 05 02:33 |
| schestowitz | The reform is a joke | Mar 05 02:33 |
| jose | and i saw references to Joint inventions and related which | Mar 05 02:33 |
| schestowitz | Makeover by the rich for the rich | Mar 05 02:33 |
| jose | ..,m,m,.m | Mar 05 02:33 |
| jose | we have to take the issues with patents to the people.. to the judges.. | Mar 05 02:34 |
| jose | we have to make as many as possible feel our pain | Mar 05 02:34 |
| jose | it's unjust for us to independently develop things and be in trouble and restricted | Mar 05 02:34 |
| jose | (no one works "independently" of course) | Mar 05 02:34 |
| jose | it's also not fair that those with money and a willingness to write patents instead of code impede us | Mar 05 02:35 |
| jose | while we don't reciprocate with our inventions | Mar 05 02:35 |
| jose | plan c would be to suggest that a uspto branch be set up to quickly and cheaply accept a different class of patents | Mar 05 02:36 |
| jose | where maybe the powers are weaker, but the foss devs could crank them out as a form of documentation or design notes in fact | Mar 05 02:36 |
| jose | the idea would be for us to have levers against them.. again, we should be rewarded not hindered | Mar 05 02:37 |
| jose | ibm's plans appear as a genuine olive branch compromise (that benefit them of course), | Mar 05 02:37 |
| jose | but it leaves many holes | Mar 05 02:38 |
| jose | if patents were automatic | Mar 05 02:38 |
| jose | we'd crank out enough to cross license with anyone out there | Mar 05 02:38 |
| jose | that would be fair.. to get credit for what you come up with in a way where you get as much stinging abilities as they get against us | Mar 05 02:39 |
| schestowitz | IBM are not a friend | Mar 05 02:39 |
| schestowitz | They defend sw patents even in the EU | Mar 05 02:39 |
| schestowitz | But they play PR games | Mar 05 02:40 |
| schestowitz | As is Google. | Mar 05 02:40 |
| jose | i had not slept, and after this morning, i just had to take an unplanned nap on the couch after i had vented as much as i was going to vent | Mar 05 02:40 |
| jose | rand.. yuck | Mar 05 02:40 |
| jose | of course, i didn't read the whole bill or pretend to really understand it.. i'm guesstimating | Mar 05 02:40 |
| schestowitz | They love RAND | Mar 05 02:43 |
| schestowitz | Corporations with influence do | Mar 05 02:43 |
| schestowitz | IT's a fence. | Mar 05 02:43 |
| jose | i could even see them arguing that those Foss people just copy and don't innovate | Mar 05 02:48 |
| jose | that would not carry much water if we wrote our own patent arsenal, but it would work in closed quarters when speaking to a legislator | Mar 05 02:49 |
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| schestowitz | WHat is innovate? | Mar 05 02:53 |
| schestowitz | Things evolve | Mar 05 02:53 |
| schestowitz | People share ideas | Mar 05 02:53 |
| jose | we may have to get dirty and seek more patents | Mar 05 02:53 |
| jose | innovation in the loose form of the word as implied by patent law | Mar 05 02:54 |
| schestowitz | Instead of people negotiating APIs they want one company to do the 'work' and then charge everyone | Mar 05 02:54 |
| schestowitz | Merely to FOLLOW its own decisions | Mar 05 02:54 |
| jose | wrt the link about vista and the rfc.. | Mar 05 02:59 |
| jose | monopolists' goals are to break interoperability not to follow or not follow standards | Mar 05 02:59 |
| jose | if an uncommon interpretation of the standard can be found.. use it and don't report it as a bug or for clarification.. and pick what you expect the fewest will follow or think of | Mar 05 03:00 |
| jose | ..that's when they follow standards! | Mar 05 03:00 |
| jose | anyway, having said that, it's good to follow standards.. i'm not going to bother now to look at the details of this case | Mar 05 03:02 |
| jose | the internet.. a collaboration to suit the many.. is designed on purpose to be robust | Mar 05 03:02 |
| jose | a mistake may have happened, but that creates pressure on future groups to be resilient and accept it | Mar 05 03:03 |
| jose | >> As the original author, let me just pick up a point that hasn't been addressed yet in the comments. You don't actually need round-robin to work for global load balancing -- all you have to do is provide a single A record for DNS requests, but use a different one each time. You need round-robin to provide an extra layer of resilience -- if one of your Internet feeds suddenly dies, some browsers will keep trying the IP address they' | Mar 05 03:06 |
| jose | ve got and won't do a new DNS request. Setting a short TTL doesn't help, browsers generally don't honour TTL. However, some browsers will try an alternate IP address in this situation, if one was provided on the original DNS lookup. | Mar 05 03:06 |
| jose | check this comment: | Mar 05 03:07 |
| jose | >> Back in the router days people would laugh at 3rd tier players who tried to implement the routing protocols from the RFC. You had to be bug-compatible to interop with Cisco or you didn't get deployed. | Mar 05 03:07 |
| jose | not only does cisco dominate, but they deal with a simpler set of software than a full OS | Mar 05 03:08 |
| jose | in some cases, much much simpler | Mar 05 03:08 |
| schestowitz | I haven't read it yet | Mar 05 03:09 |
| jose | I'm just skimming it a little | Mar 05 03:09 |
| schestowitz | But Microsoft causes some serious such problems in Sweden | Mar 05 03:09 |
| jose | ? | Mar 05 03:09 |
| schestowitz | I can look for links | Mar 05 03:27 |
| schestowitz | Search on Lund (IIRC) | Mar 05 03:27 |
| jose | something interesting | Mar 05 03:52 |
| jose | googled "whom are you working for" | Mar 05 03:52 |
| jose | scratch taht | Mar 05 03:53 |
| jose | i'll get to the point.. of these three | Mar 05 03:53 |
| jose | "whom are you working for" | Mar 05 03:53 |
| jose | "who are you working for" | Mar 05 03:53 |
| jose | "for whom are you working" | Mar 05 03:53 |
| jose | their number of hits varies proportionally with the number of grammatical mistakes | Mar 05 03:54 |
| schestowitz | Heh. | Mar 05 03:54 |
| schestowitz | Speaking of Google: | Mar 05 03:54 |
| *schestowitz wacthes: http://www.lessig.org/blog/2009/03/m... | Mar 05 03:55 | |
| jose | check out this thread in that vista dns round-robin digg article | Mar 05 03:57 |
| jose | >> | Mar 05 03:57 |
| jose | That specifies that the selection of an address from multiple A records is no longer random, but instead the destination address which shares the most prefix bits with the source address is selected, presumably on the basis that it's in some sense "closer" in the network. | Mar 05 03:57 |
| jose | Yes.. that is most definitely retarded. Neither IPv4 OR IPv6 is hierarchical, excluding LAN/WAN environments (which are less likely to use round robins anyway). | Mar 05 03:57 |
| jose | followed later by: | Mar 05 03:57 |
| jose | >> Yeah, I thought in one mode you could use your MAC address as your IPV6 address. So, by this logic, all 3Com nics will be topologically adjacent. | Mar 05 03:58 |
| jose | so without reading the details, it seems Microsoft decided to implement correctly a technologically weak std that is optional and which they wrote (and contributed) | Mar 05 03:59 |
| jose | it would be weak under the ipv6 ipv4 context | Mar 05 03:59 |
| jose | or so this is what i gather from reading various comments | Mar 05 04:00 |
| jose | again: | Mar 05 04:00 |
| jose | monopolysoft's decision to adhere to standards or break them.. | Mar 05 04:00 |
| jose | appears to be guided by what is most likely to break interop | Mar 05 04:00 |
| schestowitz | HTML and IE... | Mar 05 04:04 |
| jose | schestowitz, did you read the comment on the captcha to lessig's blog? it's interesting. | Mar 05 04:11 |
| jose | about serving as verification to prior digitization efforts. | Mar 05 04:12 |
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| schestowitz | Let me see. | Mar 05 04:14 |
| schestowitz | I see your comment now. I've just added mine | Mar 05 04:16 |
| schestowitz | His talks are repetitive | Mar 05 04:16 |
| schestowitz | The repertoire is limited, but still worth watching | Mar 05 04:16 |
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| schestowitz | I'll watch the second half tomorrow | Mar 05 04:20 |
| balzac | I'm taking care of biznass this week | Mar 05 04:23 |
| schestowitz | Skip to minute 30 | Mar 05 04:24 |
| schestowitz | He links to Wired's Plot to Kill Google. | Mar 05 04:24 |
| schestowitz | balzac: activism, man. | Mar 05 04:24 |
| schestowitz | You only live once | Mar 05 04:24 |
| balzac | figuring out all kinds of drupal sh__ and curl as well | Mar 05 04:24 |
| balzac | money, my friend | Mar 05 04:24 |
| balzac | I only live once, and I want to enjoy a lot of poontang in my years | Mar 05 04:25 |
| balzac | money is good for me | Mar 05 04:25 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zt8svS2w1I | Mar 05 04:25 |
| schestowitz | It's short | Mar 05 04:25 |
| balzac | ok | Mar 05 04:25 |
| balzac | hehe | Mar 05 04:26 |
| balzac | for the poon, that's why | Mar 05 04:26 |
| schestowitz | Now watch Lessig | Mar 05 04:26 |
| schestowitz | Skip to minute 30 | Mar 05 04:26 |
| schestowitz | He jeopardiased his career too | Mar 05 04:27 |
| schestowitz | Worked well for Lessig | Mar 05 04:27 |
| balzac | ok, I have to figure one more thing out before I go home | Mar 05 04:28 |
| jose | schestowitz, limiting campaign money can't force others to spend on your behalf. | Mar 05 04:45 |
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| jose | i'm going to go soon | Mar 05 04:45 |
| schestowitz | I know | Mar 05 04:49 |
| schestowitz | His method id weird | Mar 05 04:49 |
| schestowitz | *is | Mar 05 04:49 |
| schestowitz | Hi, troy_ | Mar 05 04:49 |
| troy_ | hi | Mar 05 04:49 |
| troy_ | I was reading some stuff from boycottnovell.com and thought I'd check out the IRC channel | Mar 05 04:50 |
| schestowitz | jose: listen to Question in 5th minute < http://www.lessig.org/blog/2009/03/me_... > | Mar 05 04:52 |
| schestowitz | He raises a good point | Mar 05 04:52 |
| schestowitz | *56th minute | Mar 05 04:52 |
| jose | roy, i did not hear most of it so i don't recognize the point. | Mar 05 04:58 |
| jose | he mentions on margin but not sure what he means | Mar 05 04:58 |
| jose | i also don't know what the 20 million represents..ie, i don't really follow since i did not hear his speech (except a few minutes' worth) | Mar 05 04:59 |
| jose | i'm leaving.... | Mar 05 05:00 |
| schestowitz | It smells bad to me | Mar 05 05:00 |
| schestowitz | And how he ended the talk | Mar 05 05:00 |
| schestowitz | Give them money to run around spread the message | Mar 05 05:00 |
| schestowitz | I'd rather stick to RMS' methods | Mar 05 05:00 |
| jose | ? | Mar 05 05:00 |
| jose | i'll see if i hear it later | Mar 05 05:00 |
| schestowitz | He's too compassionate (Lessig) | Mar 05 05:00 |
| schestowitz | l8er jose | Mar 05 05:00 |
| jose | ok | Mar 05 05:00 |
| jose | i do think people have to market to the wider population | Mar 05 05:01 |
| jose | there are too many issues still.. anyway, need to sleep | Mar 05 05:01 |
| schestowitz | Wider population requires media | Mar 05 05:07 |
| schestowitz | The paths of communications are limited by design | Mar 05 05:08 |
| schestowitz | And controlled | Mar 05 05:08 |
| schestowitz | Faux and all... I don't have to tell you about it :-) | Mar 05 05:08 |
| schestowitz | What Murdoch sez, people do (exaggeration of course). It has been like this for almost a century, also in WW2 | Mar 05 05:09 |
| jose | you can create rules, but i agree there are issues.. anyway, i'm leaving now.. for real | Mar 05 05:12 |
| jose | zzzzzz | Mar 05 05:12 |
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| *schestowitz timed out (reset by sleep) | Mar 05 05:12 | |
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| troy_ | well it's been great fun | Mar 05 07:11 |
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| MinceR | geekings | Mar 05 09:23 |
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| PetoKraus | lol | Mar 05 09:31 |
| PetoKraus | zomgz lol | Mar 05 09:31 |
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| toros | hi | Mar 05 10:43 |
| schestowitz | Hey | Mar 05 10:47 |
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| zer0c00l | Microsoft breaks the Internet with its RFC 3484 implementation http://drplokta.livejourn... | Mar 05 11:23 |
| schestowitz | I heard... | Mar 05 11:24 |
| oiaohm | I kinda don't know a standard MS has not broken or attempted to break. | Mar 05 11:44 |
| *zer0c00l agrees with oiaohm | Mar 05 11:46 | |
| schestowitz | GNU/Linux advocates face aggression from the Microsoft ecosystem: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/... | Mar 05 11:46 |
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| oiaohm | I don't know why all Microsoft backers think Linux has to be better than Windows. | Mar 05 11:47 |
| oiaohm | Not like Linux did no Solarias market share by being better. | Mar 05 11:48 |
| oiaohm | did no/did in | Mar 05 11:48 |
| toros | oiaohm: Linux is now better than Windows ;) | Mar 05 11:49 |
| zer0c00l | it happened in pune ..kplug is one of indias oldest lug | Mar 05 11:49 |
| oiaohm | Same with some Linux backers. | Mar 05 11:50 |
| toros | but this can't be really measured: this is not like running... the faster the better | Mar 05 11:50 |
| oiaohm | All we need to do with Microsoft is undercut them until they implode from lack of income. | Mar 05 11:50 |
| toros | there are millions of aspects, and it is very far from objective | Mar 05 11:50 |
| toros | I don't know what would Microsoft do in an emergency situation | Mar 05 12:05 |
| toros | I think they would attack Linux openly with their patents... | Mar 05 12:06 |
| toros | everything or nothing | Mar 05 12:06 |
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| oiaohm | tomtom testing waters | Mar 05 12:06 |
| _Hicham_ | hi everybody | Mar 05 12:06 |
| oiaohm | I think MS is in a more critical state than they want to let on. | Mar 05 12:06 |
| schestowitz | Hi, _Hicham_ | Mar 05 12:06 |
| oiaohm | Before tomtom MS never attacked directly. | Mar 05 12:07 |
| _Hicham_ | how r u doing schestowitz? | Mar 05 12:07 |
| oiaohm | Hi _Hicham_ | Mar 05 12:07 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: agreed | Mar 05 12:07 |
| schestowitz | They admit this if you watch closely | Mar 05 12:07 |
| schestowitz | They can't turn profit from most divisions | Mar 05 12:07 |
| _Hicham_ | coz their products are having a hard time | Mar 05 12:07 |
| schestowitz | They unsuccessfully try to diversify when o/ses and office suites 'go generic' (like a drug) so to speak. | Mar 05 12:08 |
| schestowitz | IBM, HP and others are pushing for s/w to be cheap so that they can sell hardware with high margins | Mar 05 12:08 |
| _Hicham_ | theirs APIs are bloated more and more | Mar 05 12:08 |
| schestowitz | Intel too supports some Linux for this reason, but Intel is a criminal company that sways in the direction of whatever pays | Mar 05 12:08 |
| oiaohm | MS is at risk of a implosion. | Mar 05 12:08 |
| toros | yes, but they still have their monopoly... and they can use it as a weapon | Mar 05 12:09 |
| toros | I think microsoft is still very dangerous | Mar 05 12:09 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: the point is, they close down less critical units | Mar 05 12:09 |
| oiaohm | monopoly is worthless if you cannot make a profit. | Mar 05 12:09 |
| schestowitz | Don't worry, they won't fire Office devs first | Mar 05 12:09 |
| schestowitz | First they get rid of Flight Simulator and other such 'luxuries' | Mar 05 12:09 |
| toros | but monopoly can be turned into profit | Mar 05 12:09 |
| schestowitz | It also limits their field of operation | Mar 05 12:09 |
| _Hicham_ | Office devs are also at risk | Mar 05 12:09 |
| schestowitz | They desperately try going online, else they lose. | Mar 05 12:10 |
| schestowitz | They fight Google by corrupting press and politicians. | Mar 05 12:10 |
| oiaohm | toros Its like having a monopoly in the production of nails. | Mar 05 12:10 |
| _Hicham_ | have you seen their codeplex repo? | Mar 05 12:10 |
| schestowitz | I haven | Mar 05 12:10 |
| schestowitz | t't | Mar 05 12:10 |
| oiaohm | If no one will pay much for them it makes no difference to you bottom line. | Mar 05 12:10 |
| _Hicham_ | microsoft says it is support FOSS | Mar 05 12:11 |
| schestowitz | They'll need to lower prices | Mar 05 12:11 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft says it love puppies too :-) | Mar 05 12:11 |
| schestowitz | It's all PR | Mar 05 12:11 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is also tryng to dilute "open source" | Mar 05 12:11 |
| oiaohm | lower prices equals less developers they can maintain in house. | Mar 05 12:11 |
| schestowitz | Constantly hammering using lackey journos that open source is not against Microsoft | Mar 05 12:11 |
| oiaohm | Nasty little problem here. | Mar 05 12:11 |
| _Hicham_ | they even host some open source projects on sourceforge | Mar 05 12:11 |
| schestowitz | This way it can sneak into deals | Mar 05 12:11 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: PR | Mar 05 12:12 |
| oiaohm | MS most likely will have to follow Apples lead when Apple had there crunch. | Mar 05 12:12 |
| _Hicham_ | yes, I know shestowitz | Mar 05 12:12 |
| schestowitz | They do whatever they need to survice | Mar 05 12:12 |
| oiaohm | Large sections of there source base have to be opened up. | Mar 05 12:12 |
| schestowitz | But up there you stil have the same bulllies who are slurring and suing | Mar 05 12:12 |
| schestowitz | Bill Gates mocked FOSS a year ago | Mar 05 12:12 |
| schestowitz | Said they "disagree" with it | Mar 05 12:12 |
| _Hicham_ | do you have the source code for windows 2000? | Mar 05 12:12 |
| _Hicham_ | and nt4? | Mar 05 12:12 |
| schestowitz | I don't want it | Mar 05 12:12 |
| oiaohm | Yes I do by the way. | Mar 05 12:12 |
| schestowitz | Nobody does | Mar 05 12:13 |
| schestowitz | It's more than code | Mar 05 12:13 |
| schestowitz | It's about participation and beyond | Mar 05 12:13 |
| _Hicham_ | well, it have been leaked five years ago | Mar 05 12:13 |
| oiaohm | NDA around it is a pain in the ass. | Mar 05 12:13 |
| oiaohm | Sorry the one leaked 5 years ago is not the full one. | Mar 05 12:13 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft to community is what prostitute is to girlfriend | Mar 05 12:13 |
| _Hicham_ | it turns out that it is Mainsoft who leaked it | Mar 05 12:13 |
| schestowitz | Mainsoft works with Mono now | Mar 05 12:14 |
| schestowitz | And IBM.. | Mar 05 12:14 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : do you have the full version? | Mar 05 12:14 |
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| oiaohm | Access to full version to have auditing tools run over to it. | Mar 05 12:15 |
| oiaohm | Nice for finding secuirty flaws in windows to probe for. | Mar 05 12:15 |
| _Hicham_ | are u working with MS? | Mar 05 12:15 |
| oiaohm | Nop. | Mar 05 12:15 |
| oiaohm | I don't have a personal copy of the source code. | Mar 05 12:15 |
| oiaohm | Particular goverment departments around the world have full copies. | Mar 05 12:16 |
| _Hicham_ | the one leaked in 2004, was not very commented | Mar 05 12:16 |
| _Hicham_ | and not complete | Mar 05 12:16 |
| _Hicham_ | I dont know anyone who compiled it successfuly | Mar 05 12:16 |
| schestowitz | Novell devs see Windows code | Mar 05 12:16 |
| oiaohm | Heck NSA are even allowed to build thre own unique versions of windows. | Mar 05 12:16 |
| schestowitz | NDAed though | Mar 05 12:17 |
| oiaohm | That addes a new interesting tweak to windows. | Mar 05 12:17 |
| _Hicham_ | under the shared code license thing, yeah | Mar 05 12:17 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: yes, those are the shelved copies too | Mar 05 12:17 |
| schestowitz | IOW, NSA *is* writing parts of Windows or 'audits' it | Mar 05 12:17 |
| schestowitz | For (national) security | Mar 05 12:17 |
| _Hicham_ | wow | Mar 05 12:18 |
| _Hicham_ | this is very serious | Mar 05 12:18 |
| schestowitz | Not news | Mar 05 12:18 |
| oiaohm | I build audit tools from time to time looking for particular bugs. | Mar 05 12:18 |
| _Hicham_ | so windows is a spyware for sure | Mar 05 12:18 |
| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/04/30/... | Mar 05 12:18 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: they are their buddies in Partner Group admitted there are back doors | Mar 05 12:18 |
| schestowitz | They said this to a crowd in 2007 or maybe early 2008 | Mar 05 12:19 |
| schestowitz | "It's good for you, it's good for your character.." | Mar 05 12:19 |
| oiaohm | NSA codes for Linux as well. | Mar 05 12:20 |
| oiaohm | Difference is NSA shows what they have done for Linux to everyone. | Mar 05 12:20 |
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| oiaohm | Closed source is basically a myth when it comes to OS's. | Mar 05 12:20 |
| _Hicham_ | there is no closed source in os's | Mar 05 12:20 |
| _Hicham_ | since OS's devs are assembler devs | Mar 05 12:21 |
| oiaohm | Nop. | Mar 05 12:21 |
| _Hicham_ | and disassembling is trivial | Mar 05 12:21 |
| oiaohm | Goverments to use a OS in a secure area demard access to the source code. | Mar 05 12:21 |
| _Hicham_ | that is for sure | Mar 05 12:21 |
| _Hicham_ | normal | Mar 05 12:22 |
| _Hicham_ | they have to build their own copies | Mar 05 12:22 |
| _Hicham_ | but it gonna be very expensive too | Mar 05 12:22 |
| oiaohm | Only diffrence is that goverment is given the right where general users are not. | Mar 05 12:22 |
| _Hicham_ | like a billion dollars? | Mar 05 12:22 |
| _Hicham_ | who knows | Mar 05 12:22 |
| oiaohm | To build windows from source takes about 4 hours. | Mar 05 12:22 |
| _Hicham_ | wow | Mar 05 12:23 |
| oiaohm | Using a goverment super. | Mar 05 12:23 |
| _Hicham_ | with precompiled headers? | Mar 05 12:23 |
| oiaohm | You are talking about a machine with at min 1024 cores _Hicham_ | Mar 05 12:23 |
| _Hicham_ | wow | Mar 05 12:24 |
| oiaohm | Upto 4096 cores. | Mar 05 12:24 |
| oiaohm | So yes minor problem building a OS from source. | Mar 05 12:24 |
| _Hicham_ | and how much would it take to build windows with an ordinary machine? | Mar 05 12:25 |
| oiaohm | few days maybe a week. | Mar 05 12:26 |
| oiaohm | It very much like building a basic Linux distrobution from nothing. | Mar 05 12:27 |
| schestowitz | "Monsterbuild" they call it | Mar 05 12:29 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft loses its business model: Microsoft Office: An Advertising Platform < http://www.pcworld.com/article/160694/microsof... > | Mar 05 12:36 |
| oiaohm | Hmm following the path of many dead companies. | Mar 05 12:38 |
| oiaohm | Think of all the companies of the years that have tried to use adware to stay alive. | Mar 05 12:38 |
| schestowitz | MS CEO: Windows Mobile development is slow: http://www.pcworld.com/article/160730/ballmer_pr... | Mar 05 12:39 |
| schestowitz | Written by the Microsoft-sympathetic Nancy Gohring, so it's spun positively | Mar 05 12:39 |
| oiaohm | Windows Moblie is a extra OS they have to maintain. | Mar 05 12:39 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Mar 05 12:39 |
| oiaohm | Apple cheated with the iphone. | Mar 05 12:39 |
| schestowitz | That's what I keep saying to people | Mar 05 12:39 |
| oiaohm | Its a darwan kernel. | Mar 05 12:39 |
| schestowitz | How much development/patching overlap is there b/w version of Windows? | Mar 05 12:40 |
| schestowitz | The kernels are surely different | Mar 05 12:40 |
| schestowitz | Two teams, different starands | Mar 05 12:40 |
| schestowitz | Similar bugs crop up... critical sometimes. | Mar 05 12:40 |
| oiaohm | Windows Moble is 100 percent different. | Mar 05 12:40 |
| schestowitz | Heh. | Mar 05 12:40 |
| schestowitz | Big shot in foot | Mar 05 12:40 |
| schestowitz | Never duplicate, branch. | Mar 05 12:40 |
| *schestowitz wonders about WSSP | Mar 05 12:41 | |
| oiaohm | Everything else MS makes in OS's is releated to NT. | Mar 05 12:41 |
| oiaohm | Xbox and Xbox360 have a altered NT releations inside. | Mar 05 12:41 |
| oiaohm | From a bottom line point of view Windows Mobile is a blood sucker. | Mar 05 12:42 |
| MinceR | so is microsoft :> | Mar 05 12:42 |
| oiaohm | I was meaning to Microsoft bottem line MinceR | Mar 05 12:42 |
| MinceR | and i meant for the rest of the world :) | Mar 05 12:43 |
| schestowitz | :-) | Mar 05 12:43 |
| oiaohm | Google OS | Mar 05 12:44 |
| oiaohm | Linux kernel same everywhere. Google appears to have the plan to just keep on expanding it. | Mar 05 12:44 |
| oiaohm | Phones netbooks maybe notebooks and desktops in time. | Mar 05 12:44 |
| oiaohm | http://source.android.com/download Hmm android is not what you call small | Mar 05 12:47 |
| schestowitz | They promote it on sub-notebooks now | Mar 05 12:49 |
| schestowitz | Did you see the news? | Mar 05 12:49 |
| schestowitz | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/0... | Mar 05 12:49 |
| oiaohm | Yep | Mar 05 12:51 |
| oiaohm | sub-notebooks ie netbooks. | Mar 05 12:52 |
| oiaohm | I like google plan. | Mar 05 12:52 |
| oiaohm | One OS everywhere. | Mar 05 12:52 |
| oiaohm | I hope other Linux distrobitons join in. | Mar 05 12:52 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft said this was impossible: Microsoft turns over new leaf, allows IE8 to be removed from Win 7 < http://www.itwire.com/content/view/23643/1023/ > | Mar 05 12:53 |
| schestowitz | Suddenly, under risk of fines, it is capable? | Mar 05 12:53 |
| oiaohm | Ms is not in a location to keep on paying fines. | Mar 05 12:53 |
| oiaohm | Every fine they pay is less staff they can have. | Mar 05 12:54 |
| oiaohm | Its a bit like trying to split webkit from QT and still have QT do everything. | Mar 05 12:55 |
| schestowitz | NBN would provide hundreds of needed jobs says recruitment boss < http://www.itwire.com/content/view/23631/1023/ > | Mar 05 12:56 |
| schestowitz | http://robertogaloppini.net/2009/03/04/op... | Mar 05 12:58 |
| schestowitz | "Sir David Omand, the former Whitehall security and intelligence co-ordinator, sets out a blueprint for the way the state will mine data -- including travel information, phone records and emails -- held by public and private bodies and admits: "Finding out other people's secrets is going to involve breaking everyday moral rules."" | Mar 05 12:59 |
| schestowitz | http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/feb/2... | Mar 05 12:59 |
| oiaohm | http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2... The holes keep on coming. | Mar 05 12:59 |
| schestowitz | Seen it. MPAA Study Links Piracy to Gangs and Terrorists < http://torrentfreak.com/mpaa-st... > | Mar 05 13:00 |
| oiaohm | Could be right. | Mar 05 13:00 |
| oiaohm | Thinking Terrorist trade in most illegal things. | Mar 05 13:00 |
| MinceR | i don't like google's plan, because it's linux without GNU | Mar 05 13:03 |
| MinceR | (and x) | Mar 05 13:03 |
| oiaohm | So | Mar 05 13:03 |
| oiaohm | Google plan is aimed at getting market share. | Mar 05 13:04 |
| oiaohm | People have worked out how to put X on google. | Mar 05 13:04 |
| schestowitz | http://www.boingboing.net/2009/03/03/... (Manchester man arrested for alleged sewer-grate photography, held as a terrorist) | Mar 05 13:05 |
| MinceR | and all they got was xvnc with no access to the phone hardware. | Mar 05 13:06 |
| oiaohm | Stuffing up sewer system is the fastest way to screw a city. | Mar 05 13:06 |
| schestowitz | RIM is a shill for monopolies: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10187975-... | Mar 05 13:07 |
| schestowitz | Your Help Needed - Reveal Torture to Stop It < http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/arc... > | Mar 05 13:08 |
| schestowitz | BBC still getting it wrong after Oasis story correction < http://shanghaiist.com/2009/03/... > | Mar 05 13:13 |
| schestowitz | Two-thirds of Web surfers know advertisers are tracking them < http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/d... > | Mar 05 13:14 |
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| schestowitz | Opinion: Why spend €£2,000 when a €£299 machine does what you want? http://www.techradar.com/news/computi... | Mar 05 13:26 |
| schestowitz | The next post will be on more patent mess: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/05/pa... | Mar 05 13:58 |
| schestowitz | trmanco (or someone else with the utils): Can you make an HTML from this PDF please? http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/u... | Mar 05 13:59 |
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| schestowitz | One of Novell's partners (or whatever ISV for Novell) is filling posts critical of Novell with many comments: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/05/n... To feed or to ignore | Mar 05 14:44 |
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| schestowitz | Recipe for Disaster: The Formula That Killed Wall Street < http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/magaz... > | Mar 05 15:11 |
| schestowitz | Electronic Voting Ruled Out For German General Election < http://www.easybourse.com/bourse-actual... > | Mar 05 15:12 |
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| trmanco_ | hey schestowitz | Mar 05 15:27 |
| trmanco_ | have you seen this -> http://osnews.com/comments/21085 | Mar 05 15:28 |
| trmanco_ | I mean this -> http://osnews.com/story/21085/Ed... | Mar 05 15:28 |
| trmanco_ | cya, have to go | Mar 05 15:31 |
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| schestowitz | Yes | Mar 05 15:39 |
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| schestowitz | Oh no! http://www.roblimo.com/node/532#more-532 | Mar 05 16:08 |
| schestowitz | Windows-only GPL software (deceiving) -> http://www.prweb.com/releases/200... | Mar 05 16:10 |
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| Balrog | hi everyone | Mar 05 16:57 |
| hello | Mar 05 17:26 | |
| Oh wow, the roblimo story is bad. | Mar 05 17:27 | |
| Balrog | twitter: which one? | Mar 05 17:27 |
| the one where he's fired and moving into a trailer | Mar 05 17:28 | |
| it's unbelievable that someone as productive and experienced as him has that happening while people like MOG are publishing crap | Mar 05 17:29 | |
| Balrog | link? | Mar 05 17:30 |
| Balrog | I have it | Mar 05 17:30 |
| Balrog | never mind | Mar 05 17:30 |
| "There’s no point in complaining. I’ve voted for more than a few Republicans over the years, and this is my payback for that mistake. I’ve voted (mostly) for Democrats since 2000, though, and hopefully the Democrats now in office will realize that people like me need as much help as bank and Wall Street executives." http://www.roblimo.com/node/532#more-532 | Mar 05 17:31 | |
| trmanco | hello | Mar 05 18:19 |
| trmanco | oh great | Mar 05 18:21 |
| trmanco | now Yahoo is learning some nasty tricks from MS | Mar 05 18:22 |
| _Hicham_ | what are those tricks? | Mar 05 18:39 |
| trmanco | You OS is not supported | Mar 05 18:39 |
| trmanco | wait | Mar 05 18:40 |
| trmanco | let me try again | Mar 05 18:40 |
| trmanco | meh, it works again | Mar 05 18:40 |
| Balrog | trmanco: weird browser? | Mar 05 18:41 |
| Balrog | or user agent? | Mar 05 18:41 |
| trmanco | no | Mar 05 18:41 |
| trmanco | genuine browser and OS and no spoofed user agent | Mar 05 18:41 |
| Balrog | hrm. | Mar 05 18:41 |
| Balrog | probably a server error | Mar 05 18:42 |
| trmanco | maybe it was just a false alarm | Mar 05 18:42 |
| Balrog | yeah | Mar 05 18:42 |
| trmanco | yeah, lets hope so, if it happens again I will say something | Mar 05 18:42 |
| Balrog | well, if it happens again within the next day don't complain too much | Mar 05 18:42 |
| Balrog | they may have some problems | Mar 05 18:42 |
| trmanco | so I've heard, that there won't be no FF 3.1 but yes a FF 3.5 :D | Mar 05 18:42 |
| trmanco | Balrog, pop access? | Mar 05 18:43 |
| Balrog | if it repeats over a longer period of time, then yeah, it may be messy... | Mar 05 18:43 |
| Balrog | POP...???? | Mar 05 18:43 |
| trmanco | yeah, I've heard rumors | Mar 05 18:43 |
| trmanco | they might offer free pop 'corn | Mar 05 18:43 |
| Balrog | who....? | Mar 05 18:43 |
| Balrog | Yahoo? | Mar 05 18:43 |
| trmanco | yes | Mar 05 18:43 |
| Balrog | that would be good | Mar 05 18:44 |
| Balrog | but I have yahoo plus via verizon | Mar 05 18:44 |
| Balrog | so I have pop | Mar 05 18:44 |
| trmanco | cool | Mar 05 18:44 |
| Balrog | IMAP would be nice. | Mar 05 18:44 |
| Balrog | aol and gmail have it | Mar 05 18:44 |
| trmanco | yeah | Mar 05 18:44 |
| trmanco | I love IMAP | Mar 05 18:44 |
| Balrog | aol support sucks though | Mar 05 18:44 |
| schestowitz | http://www.digitalmajority.org/forum/t-1358... | Mar 05 18:44 |
| trmanco | Google's IMAP is getting slow | Mar 05 18:45 |
| trmanco | don't know why, maybe it's my client? | Mar 05 18:45 |
| trmanco | or maybe they have high demand | Mar 05 18:45 |
| trmanco | I'm also using GMX, Balrog | Mar 05 18:45 |
| Balrog | not sure. I had trouble with Gmail SMTP but that's probably config stuff | Mar 05 18:46 |
| Balrog | GMX? | Mar 05 18:46 |
| trmanco | yes | Mar 05 18:46 |
| trmanco | German based company | Mar 05 18:47 |
| trmanco | I like it | Mar 05 18:47 |
| trmanco | http://mail-us.gmx.com/ | Mar 05 18:47 |
| trmanco | I'm going to start my own cloud, but first I need a proper domain name | Mar 05 18:52 |
| trmanco | schestowitz, did you get that link I sent you earlier | Mar 05 18:52 |
| trmanco | ? | Mar 05 18:52 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: which one? | Mar 05 18:55 |
| trmanco | OSnews, UAC is broken I think | Mar 05 18:55 |
| trmanco | is* | Mar 05 18:56 |
| schestowitz | Yes, posted to BN as well by now | Mar 05 18:56 |
| trmanco | ok :D | Mar 05 18:56 |
| schestowitz | I saw it in USENET first (Peter Kohlman) | Mar 05 18:56 |
| schestowitz | I also posted: trmanco (or someone else with the utils): Can you make an HTML from this PDF please? http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/upload... | Mar 05 18:57 |
| trmanco | ok... good to know | Mar 05 18:57 |
| trmanco | schestowitz, I can try | Mar 05 18:57 |
| trmanco | give me 10 minutes | Mar 05 18:57 |
| Balrog | new slashdot article | Mar 05 18:57 |
| Balrog | http://linux.slashdot.org/ar... | Mar 05 18:57 |
| Balrog | about the GPL and the MS/tom-tom thing | Mar 05 18:57 |
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| trmanco | http://www.linfo.org/q_microsoft.html | Mar 05 19:00 |
| trmanco | schestowitz, text or html? | Mar 05 19:01 |
| schestowitz | html, please | Mar 05 19:02 |
| trmanco | ok | Mar 05 19:03 |
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| trmanco | schestowitz, done | Mar 05 19:13 |
| trmanco | some letter are messed up tho, like the last time | Mar 05 19:14 |
| trmanco | letters* | Mar 05 19:14 |
| balzac | Someone posted a recent blog entry which was picked up on fsdaily: http://www.fsdaily.com/EndUser/linu... | Mar 05 19:19 |
| balzac | I think they're exactly right - more porn in ogg theora, since porn is the biggest theater of battle for media codecs. | Mar 05 19:20 |
| schestowitz | trmanco: thanks. | Mar 05 19:20 |
| balzac | With Firefox leading the charge as the porn-ready browser | Mar 05 19:20 |
| trmanco | schestowitz, email? | Mar 05 19:20 |
| schestowitz | Yes, please. | Mar 05 19:21 |
| schestowitz | I don't think anyone had the text | Mar 05 19:21 |
| trmanco | give 5 minutes | Mar 05 19:21 |
| trmanco | me* | Mar 05 19:21 |
| trmanco | http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.p... | Mar 05 19:21 |