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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 27th, 2009 - Part 2


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schestowitzThe server is overloaded again.Mar 27 08:16
trmancowispygalaxy might come here todayMar 27 08:17
trmancoschestowitz, what server?Mar 27 08:17
Omar871Hey all.Mar 27 08:17
schestowitzBN. This leads to problem when commenting for exampleMar 27 08:18
schestowitzI hope the host does not complainMar 27 08:18
trmancohelloMar 27 08:19
schestowitzThe comment system does not work well because of server loadMar 27 08:43
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schestowitzzoobab01: 27 09:17
schestowitzping zer0c00l Mar 27 09:29
zer0c00lschestowitz:64 bytes from zer0c00l: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.219 msMar 27 09:32
zer0c00l:)Mar 27 09:32
schestowitzACKMar 27 09:32
schestowitzSomeone who's an MSP has just commented in BNMar 27 09:33
zer0c00lohMar 27 09:33
zer0c00lokMar 27 09:33
zer0c00llet me cMar 27 09:33
schestowitzBut also, I want to find which shills in India lobby for software patentsMar 27 09:33
schestowitzThe best way to counter it is to find out and point out the croniesMar 27 09:33
zer0c00lyesMar 27 09:33
schestowitzMSPs live in illusions, like MS employeesMar 27 09:34
zer0c00l:DMar 27 09:34
zer0c00lyesMar 27 09:34
zer0c00lMicrooosoofft Student paartneeerMar 27 09:35
schestowitzThere is a big push from MS right now to legalise sw patentsMar 27 09:37
schestowitzThey attack TomTOm with embargo threatsMar 27 09:37
schestowitzITCMar 27 09:37
schestowitzAnd in India too AFAIKMar 27 09:37
schestowitzThe draft manual.Mar 27 09:37
schestowitzzoobab01 would know moreMar 27 09:37
schestowitzSo we need to blog the issue more... I'll post an RMS video laterMar 27 09:37
schestowitzMSPs are too brainwashed and immersed for me to both replying to. They are also greedy.Mar 27 09:38
zer0c00lschestowitz: are you going to reply for that comment?Mar 27 09:38
zer0c00lyesMar 27 09:38
schestowitzThey would let Indian  burn if they made a buckMar 27 09:39
zer0c00lbunch of morons who promotes crappy technologyMar 27 09:39
schestowitz*IndiaMar 27 09:39
schestowitzzer0c00l: no, I won't replyMar 27 09:39
zer0c00ldo you want me to ?Mar 27 09:39
schestowitzI tried before when some MS lackeys from Kerala fought back with BSMar 27 09:39
schestowitzzer0c00l: yes, pleaseMar 27 09:39
schestowitzTell them about MS writing letters on behalf of dead peopleMar 27 09:40
zer0c00llet me start a flame war :DMar 27 09:40
zer0c00lyesMar 27 09:40
zer0c00lDead peopleMar 27 09:40
schestowitzThose kids don't know what Microsoft is *really( doingMar 27 09:40
zer0c00l?Mar 27 09:40
schestowitzMicrosoft thrives in innocence and ignoranceMar 27 09:40
schestowitzImposed by PRMar 27 09:40
schestowitzzer0c00l: you didn't know?Mar 27 09:40
zer0c00lyesMar 27 09:40
schestowitzSearch BN for "dead people"Mar 27 09:40
schestowitzYou have catching up to do. ;-)Mar 27 09:40
zer0c00lyesMar 27 09:41
zer0c00l;)Mar 27 09:41
zer0c00l ?Mar 27 09:42
zer0c00lschestowitz: i posted BN link in a blog he came here from there 27 09:46
MinceRgeekingsMar 27 09:47
schestowitzzer0c00l: there are more posts on that incidentMar 27 09:49
zer0c00lohMar 27 09:50
zer0c00li just commented back at that girlMar 27 09:51
zer0c00l@gracelyneMar 27 09:51
zer0c00l>>Lets appreciate technolgy!Shall we ?Mar 27 09:51
zer0c00lNo, Lets appreciate GOOD technology.Mar 27 09:51
zer0c00lyou are appreciating technology from a software molester.Mar 27 09:51
zer0c00l:DMar 27 09:51
schestowitzHeh.Mar 27 09:54
zer0c00lschestowitz: preparing commentMar 27 09:55
zer0c00l:)Mar 27 09:55
schestowitzThanks.Mar 27 09:55
zer0c00lseems like a seminarMar 27 09:57
zer0c00lwill post it tonightMar 27 09:57
zer0c00llaterMar 27 09:58
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oiaohm  <<Some of googles project names take the cake.Mar 27 10:25
amarsh04"bakery thief"? (-:Mar 27 10:29
schestowitzGoogle gives Python a kick in the pants.Mar 27 10:37
oiaohmOver due kick.Mar 27 10:38
schestowitztrmanco: where are you going for 10 days?Mar 27 10:38
MinceRlol, niceMar 27 10:39
trmancoschestowitz, SpainMar 27 10:39
schestowitzoiaohm: MS tried to contain (EEE) pythonMar 27 10:39
schestowitzSun tris too... JPython and hiresMar 27 10:39
MinceRisn't that Jython?Mar 27 10:39
oiaohmDifferent here llvm has the direct means to make native code.Mar 27 10:40
schestowitzMinceR: yesMar 27 10:40
oiaohmPython has really been the last hold out major bytecode language.Mar 27 10:41
oiaohmShould get intresting python vs ruby.Mar 27 10:42
amarsh04the first ruby program I installed on my pc was "rubyripper" - a google-hosted project. For something written in a language developed by a Japanese person, I was surprised that it crashed on some Japanese text in the title of the album I was trying to ripMar 27 10:46
trmancohehe, posting on works really wellMar 27 10:51
*trmanco goes back to packingMar 27 10:51
schestowitztrmanco: where do you post to. identica and twitter?Mar 27 11:00
trmancoschestowitz, I post from Gwibber...Mar 27 11:01
trmancoI was just trying out on a mobile connection to see if it worksMar 27 11:01
trmanco 27 11:05
trmancoI can get that computer for -$150Mar 27 11:06
trmanco...Mar 27 11:06
trmancostupid adMar 27 11:06
trmancotroll -> 27 11:10
schestowitz"windows xp takes 15 sec."Mar 27 11:11
schestowitzTo return from hibernation? :-)Mar 27 11:12
oiaohmYou can get XP started in 10 flat.Mar 27 11:12
oiaohmBut that is anti-virus free and basically gutted.Mar 27 11:13
trmancooiaohm, yes you can... after you've finished installing itMar 27 11:14
trmanco...Mar 27 11:15
oiaohmNo nlite custom disk.Mar 27 11:15
trmancoafter you install the 300 pending updates it starts to get slowerMar 27 11:15
oiaohmWith a much as you can cut out.Mar 27 11:15
oiaohmIncluding checking for updates.Mar 27 11:15
schestowitzOn a 2.2 GHx Celeron???/Mar 27 11:15
trmancothen you install driver (Ah drivers) and a antivirus and then it gets even slowerMar 27 11:16
schestowitz*1.2 GHzMar 27 11:16
trmancoschestowitz, yes it might... hard to believe thoughMar 27 11:16
schestowitzI don't buy itMar 27 11:16
oiaohmThat is double what I got 10 secs on.Mar 27 11:16
oiaohm600 mhz completely gutted XPMar 27 11:16
oiaohm10 seconds is doable.Mar 27 11:17
oiaohmReally when the install is only 50 megs yes there was not much of XP leftMar 27 11:17
trmancoonce you start using the registry and fraging both FS and registry, it starts to get sluggishMar 27 11:18
trmancoand it starts to crashMar 27 11:18
oiaohmThere is a third cause of XP getting slower.Mar 27 11:18
oiaohmThat I have not found.Mar 27 11:18
trmancooiaohm, what's thatMar 27 11:18
trmancoah, it's random then?Mar 27 11:19
oiaohmYou can defrag and clean the registry.Mar 27 11:19
trmancooiaohm, I knowMar 27 11:19
oiaohmAnd the performance does not come back.Mar 27 11:19
trmancotrueMar 27 11:19
oiaohmI suspect windows updates.Mar 27 11:19
trmancoyeah, I've stated thatMar 27 11:19
oiaohmI have even used old copied of the registry.Mar 27 11:19
trmanco<trmanco> after you install the 300 pending updates it starts to get slowerMar 27 11:19
oiaohmIt also could be sxsMar 27 11:19
oiaohmBasically there is something else slowing windows down.Mar 27 11:20
trmancocrap kernelMar 27 11:20
oiaohmAfter reboots nop.Mar 27 11:20
trmanco,mic...Mar 27 11:20
oiaohmThe thing that gets me the slow down always lines up with a NEW MS OS getting released.Mar 27 11:21
oiaohmIe bigger slow down at those times than anyother time.Mar 27 11:21
trmancoI just laugh at Windows when I leave it all night doing something and then the other day I'm thrown a "Windows had a critical error" Windows... all work lostMar 27 11:22
trmancopatheticMar 27 11:22
EruaranMakes you wonderMar 27 11:22
EruaranHow long will people put up with itMar 27 11:22
schestowitzI just assume Linux will work the following dayMar 27 11:23
schestowitzI had it run many experiments over nightMar 27 11:23
oiaohmLOL the document is not secret about the cloudMar 27 11:23
schestowitzWindows can hardly do large backups reliablyMar 27 11:23
schestowitzYou have to redoMar 27 11:23
trmanco1 year XP install acting like this...  If I could, I would tell BillyG to stick the instalation CD and a external hard drive with the source code up it's assMar 27 11:23
oiaohmIts a joint pack to unified standards including non patent attack.Mar 27 11:23
oiaohmAgainst all members and there customers and supporting developers.Mar 27 11:23
trmancoEruaran, people won't admit thatMar 27 11:23
oiaohmMS signs that there cases against Linux goes.Mar 27 11:24
trmancoif Windows crashes they just ignore it, at least in my experienceMar 27 11:24
schestowitzindustry-expresses-outrage-at-secret-microsoft-apis.aspxMar 27 11:24
EruaranWont admit what ? That Windows is, and always has been, crap ?Mar 27 11:24
trmancoEruaran, yes, and it never crashes for themMar 27 11:24
oiaohmLinux has not been much better.Mar 27 11:24
oiaohmfor desktop usage.Mar 27 11:24
trmancothey like BSoD, it's like a featureMar 27 11:24
oiaohmX11 splatMar 27 11:24
oiaohmVs BSoDMar 27 11:24
trmancosplat?Mar 27 11:24
Eruaran?Mar 27 11:25
oiaohmX11 crashes cutting off video access.Mar 27 11:25
oiaohmSo the screen just freases.Mar 27 11:25
oiaohmBSoD is kinda nicer.Mar 27 11:25
EruaranThe only time I've had trouble with Linux is if I'm deliberately using bleeding edge alpha stuffMar 27 11:25
trmancoyeah I had those problems with blog shit driversMar 27 11:25
trmancoblob*Mar 27 11:25
oiaohmKMS in Linux will give Linux like a BSoDMar 27 11:26
oiaohmSo a Nvidia/other closed source splat will be known straight up.Mar 27 11:26
oiaohmThat way people can go attack the party responisable.Mar 27 11:26
trmancoNot long ago I was using the Ati proprietary driver, It would crash Xorg when using Compiz, dunno why, and I also had double Xorg processes each eating up 100 MB ramMar 27 11:26
oiaohmMS BSoD being cryptic makes them basicallly useless.Mar 27 11:26
oiaohmThat is to be expected I can tell you what was going on trmancoMar 27 11:27
trmanconow, Xorg never has crashed after that, and I have only one Xorg process eating up 80 mg ramMar 27 11:27
oiaohmAti propriertary driver was a DRI 1 design.Mar 27 11:27
trmancooiaohm, what was it?Mar 27 11:27
oiaohmSo whole stack of over layours had to be used to make Compiz work.Mar 27 11:28
oiaohmIe huge ram usage.Mar 27 11:28
trmancohmmMar 27 11:28
oiaohmOn top of that DRI 1 drivers have a race condition flaw that Compiz exposes.Mar 27 11:28
oiaohmSo yep dead man walking in more than one.Mar 27 11:29
trmancothe open source driver works fine for meMar 27 11:29
oiaohmRun the DRI 1 driver long enough even the open source one with compiz it will crash.Mar 27 11:29
trmancoI'll bet it won'tMar 27 11:30
oiaohmDRI 2 is required to remove the race condition flaw.Mar 27 11:30
oiaohmI have already had this bet many times over with many people in winehq.Mar 27 11:30
oiaohmSo far they have all lost.Mar 27 11:30
oiaohmDRI 1 is being replaced because there is a non repairable flaw in its design that causes the race condition.Mar 27 11:31
oiaohmIt was only designed for 1 opengl application at a time.Mar 27 11:31
oiaohmYep oppsMar 27 11:31
oiaohmCompiz + another program opengl program you have 2 opengl programs so causing the race conditions of two applications trying to use only one interface on offer.Mar 27 11:32
trmancooiaohm, ah, that is what causes the flickering right?Mar 27 11:32
trmancowhen using some other program with openglMar 27 11:33
oiaohmYep you will 100 percent for sure go splat.Mar 27 11:33
oiaohmThat flickering is like the warning sign.Mar 27 11:33
trmancowine does that when starting, but it never crashedMar 27 11:33
trmancoXorgMar 27 11:33
oiaohmRight set of gpu instructions cut half way and half another sent splat.Mar 27 11:34
oiaohmIt will happen.Mar 27 11:34
trmancosó, I just turn off compiz and everthing works right againMar 27 11:34
oiaohmYou just have been lucky that is all trmancoMar 27 11:34
oiaohmThat is the luck of race conditions.Mar 27 11:34
trmancoAh, ok :-PMar 27 11:34
oiaohmAnd of course luck runs out.Mar 27 11:34
trmancomaybe I have skynet controlling my linux box :-PMar 27 11:35
oiaohmWhen dri 2 drivers are stable trmanco upgrade.Mar 27 11:35
oiaohmThen you can have compizMar 27 11:35
oiaohmUntil then its a risk.Mar 27 11:35
trmancoI'll have to waitMar 27 11:35
trmancohow is the status of DRI2 on the radeon driver? I can't seem to find itMar 27 11:36
oiaohmRecord so far is 8 months before the race condition caught up to the a person.Mar 27 11:36
oiaohmDRI2 parts for radeons are not kernel merged yet.Mar 27 11:36
trmancook...Mar 27 11:36
oiaohmHopefully 2.6.30Mar 27 11:36
*trmanco is waitingMar 27 11:36
oiaohmThen for 3d accleration galluim3d is requiredMar 27 11:37
oiaohmSo before end of year some time.Mar 27 11:37
trmancoGEM is also coolMar 27 11:37
oiaohmGEM is part of it.Mar 27 11:37
trmancoah okMar 27 11:37
EruaranI haven't used compiz for a few weeks nowMar 27 11:37
oiaohmGEM is the bit that manages GPU memory so applications don't step on each other toes.Mar 27 11:37
oiaohmSo preventing the race condition.Mar 27 11:38
MinceRGEM keeps making me think of the older GEMMar 27 11:38
EruaranhehMar 27 11:39
Eruaransame hereMar 27 11:39
trmancoRuby gem?Mar 27 11:39
EruaranThe original GEMMar 27 11:39
EruaranGo back to the 80'sMar 27 11:39
trmanco:OMar 27 11:40
oiaohm  << You are thinking of this that is Open source these days.Mar 27 11:40
MinceRwow, colorsMar 27 11:41
trmancoah, coolMar 27 11:41
oiaohmYes its funny that the source code and sdk of gem takes 44 meg archive.Mar 27 11:41
MinceRi've only ever seen it on Atari STMar 27 11:42
MinceRwhere it was black, white and green only in the backgroundMar 27 11:42
oiaohmMight get kinda insane one day and port opengem to Linux framebuffer.Mar 27 11:42
MinceR 27 11:46
schestowitzCheck out my new CSS changes: 27 11:54
schestowitzMind the quote on the left and the one at the bottom (picture+borders)Mar 27 11:54
schestowitzOh, might have to  flush cache (CSS is caches usually)Mar 27 11:56
schestowitzReload the CSS first: 27 11:56
EruaranBN is only thing I can get to work with my RSSNOW widgetMar 27 12:02
*Eruaran kicks widgetMar 27 12:02
EruaranApparently Plymouth only works on Intel hardware, is this true ?Mar 27 12:04
MinceRiirc it needs KMS, which currently only works on intel gpu-sMar 27 12:05
Eruaranoh i cMar 27 12:11
oiaohmOther drivers are coming EruaranMar 27 12:16
oiaohmSo intel hardware for now VIA and ATI hardware in timeMar 27 12:16
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trmancocool, you changed the quote blockMar 27 12:20
Eruaran|alphatesFirefox is retardedMar 27 12:23
*Eruaran|alphates is now known as EruaranMar 27 12:23
trmanco?Mar 27 12:23
trmancoctrl+RMar 27 12:23
EruaranI downloaded an imageMar 27 12:24
EruaranThe full resolution image has been downloadedMar 27 12:24
EruaranBut when I want to save the imageMar 27 12:24
EruaranFirefox downloads the whole thing all over againMar 27 12:24
EruaranRetardedMar 27 12:25
EruaranHence, I use Konqueror for downloading wallpapers from InterfaceliftMar 27 12:26
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trmancoah okMar 27 13:00
trmancoSince when does _Microsoft make proper anti-crack software? -> 27 13:05
trmancoWGA has always failedMar 27 13:05
MinceRthere's no such thing as proper DRMMar 27 13:07
trmancoyou call that DRM?Mar 27 13:10
trmancoI call it shit softwareMar 27 13:10
oiaohmThere is such thing as a Proper DRM.Mar 27 13:11
trmancomicrosoft could shut down the light of all pirated Windows if it wanted tooMar 27 13:11
trmancolights*Mar 27 13:11
oiaohmProper DRM is a true prick.Mar 27 13:11
oiaohmIts embeded inside the processing units.Mar 27 13:11
oiaohmSo nothing transfered out side the processing unit is in a unencrypted state.Mar 27 13:12
oiaohmIts really sentivie to any form of hardware failure.Mar 27 13:12
MinceRand how are you going to view that content? :>Mar 27 13:27
oiaohmNormally high secuirty transfer routers.Mar 27 13:27
oiaohmSo you are not ment to view the data at that location MinceRMar 27 13:28
MinceRvideo/audio will still be converted to analog data, otherwise you won't be able to see/hear anythingMar 27 13:28
oiaohmTransfer routers.Mar 27 13:28
oiaohmYou try moniting at there location you have jack.Mar 27 13:28
oiaohmYou have to get to a client at 1 end to decode.Mar 27 13:28
MinceRand the client decodes, and then you get the unencrypted stuffMar 27 13:29
MinceRwith hw hacking you can get it in digital formMar 27 13:29
MinceRalso, if the processing units aren't tamperproof, you can get at the key anywayMar 27 13:29
oiaohmtransfer routers are more of a prick than that.Mar 27 13:30
MinceRif you won't define "transfer router", i won't listen to you anymore. :>Mar 27 13:30
oiaohmYes in the processor is a embeded key for start up.Mar 27 13:31
oiaohmhigh secuirty transfer rounters recieve data encrypted.  Can apply alteration encryption to data packet.  Ie a key that translated from one encrypted patern to another without decycrypting.Mar 27 13:34
oiaohmBasically you have a box with basically no exposed plan texted MinceRMar 27 13:34
oiaohmTaking it off line also can equal it unable to reconnect.Mar 27 13:35
oiaohmMinceR: pricks of things.  Makes VPN look friendly.Mar 27 13:35
MinceRsounds like something that will only work with linear encryption algorithmsMar 27 13:36
MinceR(otherwise there aren't a lot of operations you can do on encrypted data without decrypting)Mar 27 13:36
MinceRthen again, with a key stream it might even workMar 27 13:37
schestowitztrmanco: thanks, seen the WGA thing. Will write about it laterMar 27 13:38
trmancookMar 27 13:38
schestowitzI'm doing a long article nowMar 27 13:38
schestowitzTHat's why I'm quiet in IRCMar 27 13:38
oiaohmTranslation patterns are evil on really complex compressions.  Its a realy nasty set of double maths to create them.  Ie decypt formual put with encrypt forumul with both keys embed then optmised into a conversion forumal.Mar 27 13:39
oiaohmIf done right at no point does the data ever return to true plaintext.Mar 27 13:40
oiaohmIts the only true DRM I know that works MinceRMar 27 13:40
MinceRbut then you need to generate a stream of key bitsMar 27 13:41
MinceRor use weak encryptionMar 27 13:41
MinceRi doubt you can do _everything_ you need with translation patternsMar 27 13:41
oiaohmHard part is how complex translation patterns are to make.Mar 27 13:42
MinceRalso, some of your processing units _will_ need to know the secret that lets them decrypt the contentMar 27 13:42
oiaohmso there weakness is normally a slow key update cycle.Mar 27 13:42
MinceRand the user will still have them physicallyMar 27 13:42
oiaohmYes physical end points need real human secuirty.Mar 27 13:43
MinceRalso, note that users aren't terribly sensitive to quality so a tranformation that involves an analog format will still be acceptable to a lot of peopleMar 27 13:43
trmancopsyb0tMar 27 13:45
oiaohmWhat the transfer router is doing is DRM.  It allows particular users access to data streams and not others.  Based on how it transforms the stream.Mar 27 13:46
oiaohmWhen they screw up and double stack alter its not nice.Mar 27 13:46
oiaohm[send user key][transform][recieveuser key][transform][o crap what key is this]Mar 27 13:47
oiaohmThere not your normal beasts MinceRMar 27 13:52
oiaohmYou know someone is getting nuts when someone asks you to repair one of those transfer routers and you read the manual in blue prints is a optional block of c4.Mar 27 13:53
MinceRin the end, you're going to have to use a DAC to get an analog signalMar 27 13:55
MinceRthat DAC will receive unencrypted contentMar 27 13:55
schestowitzOr use a tripodMar 27 13:55
schestowitzCapture output perfectlyMar 27 13:56
MinceRthat's far from perfect, but people have been known to seek recordings of a movie screen done with handheld cameras from a suboptimal seatMar 27 13:56
oiaohmNote digital rights management.  The system I am talking about is normally not used on videos.  But on  documents going from location to location.Mar 27 13:58
oiaohmIt reduces the numbers of keys each end has to know.Mar 27 13:59
MinceRcan they take notes or photos of the screens?Mar 27 13:59
MinceRis physical security of the terminals ensured?Mar 27 13:59
oiaohmRemember I said the end points had to have real secuirty.Mar 27 13:59
oiaohmYep physical secuirty at the termianls.Mar 27 14:00
MinceRthat sounds workable.Mar 27 14:00
MinceR(though you might want to ban people with implants eventually :> )Mar 27 14:00
oiaohmIts the only form of DRM I know that works.Mar 27 14:00
oiaohmKinda upgrade to the next level.Mar 27 14:00
MinceRbut it won't work with most forms/uses of content.Mar 27 14:01
oiaohmWhat I just explained to you is what a proper working DRM looks like.Mar 27 14:02
oiaohmNot the most friendly things.Mar 27 14:02
oiaohmMost things called DRM is just a impersonation ofit.Mar 27 14:02
oiaohmImplants in theory open up a scary form.Mar 27 14:03
MinceRsounds more like proper encryption than DRM :>Mar 27 14:03
oiaohmInload information into person mind in a way they cannot repeat it.Mar 27 14:03
oiaohmThe transfer router is the DRM bit.Mar 27 14:03
oiaohmIts controlling who can access what.Mar 27 14:04
MinceRdid they call this DRM before the term was used for "premium content"?Mar 27 14:04
MinceRaccess control can be implemented in many ways :)Mar 27 14:04
oiaohmYes they did.Mar 27 14:04
MinceRicMar 27 14:04
oiaohmMedia companies picked up a older term.Mar 27 14:04
oiaohmAnd half ass implemented it.Mar 27 14:04
oiaohmIe cut off the end point secuirty.Mar 27 14:05
oiaohmThe idea of each user having a unique decode and encode key is part of the older DRM model.Mar 27 14:05
oiaohmSo if a point is breached they only get 1 key and stop sending data on that path there is no free data.Mar 27 14:06
oiaohmIts completely designed to avoid large stock piles of keys in locations that cannot be protected.Mar 27 14:06
oiaohmWhere the media companies got the idea of DRM from was a fully valid MinceRMar 27 14:08
MinceRicMar 27 14:08
MinceRso it's a typical case of someone seeing someting workable and trying to copy it without understanding itMar 27 14:08
oiaohmYepMar 27 14:08
MinceRthat's how we got WEP and GSM security :>Mar 27 14:08
oiaohmThere is proper DRM just most people are like you have no clue what it is.Mar 27 14:09
oiaohmUntil its explained.Mar 27 14:09
MinceRwell now i doMar 27 14:09
MinceRi think these two things are distinct enough to warrant different names, so i guess i'll just call media DRM "copy protection" :>Mar 27 14:10
oiaohmThe media companies are trying to get the end point protections through laws.Mar 27 14:10
oiaohmWhere when used in mil and intelegance groups they have men with guys at each end.Mar 27 14:11
MinceRthat would be the end of the personal computer.Mar 27 14:11
oiaohmExactly if proper DRM ever got implemented there would be no room for a personal computer.Mar 27 14:12
oiaohmMost mobile device would not have a home either.Mar 27 14:12
MinceRit's more than that: they'd have to forbid PCs (and mobile computers) entirely.Mar 27 14:12
MinceRif you have one, you can use it to handle media in any way you want.Mar 27 14:13
oiaohmAs you can see the media companys are trying to build proper DRM.Mar 27 14:13
BalrogDRM != copy protectionMar 27 14:13
oiaohmBut they really have not though through the results.Mar 27 14:13
Balrogdrm is more like usage preventionMar 27 14:13
Balrognot *copy* preventionMar 27 14:14
MinceRany use of digital media is copying, isn't it? :)Mar 27 14:14
Balrogwas copy protection on floppy disks back in the 80's DRM?Mar 27 14:14
oiaohmCoping is basically not preventable.Mar 27 14:14
MinceRunless it's a stream you don't storeMar 27 14:14
MinceRBalrog: dunno, but i think these things are fundamentally the same thing.Mar 27 14:15
Balrogno it isn't ... but if it's trivial people will copyMar 27 14:15
BalrogI'm not so sure about thatMar 27 14:15
Balrogthe bad thing about DRM is the anti circumventionMar 27 14:15
oiaohmthe other thing about the terminals in a mil grade DRM network all storage devices remain encrypted.  Only the terminal has the keys.Mar 27 14:16
oiaohmVery much like the media DRM idea.Mar 27 14:16
oiaohmThey copied.Mar 27 14:16
oiaohmYou don't use DRM if you want the data to be accessable in future either.Mar 27 14:17
schestowitzFor those who don't know: Jonathan Zuck and ACT: What is It Anyway? 27 14:18
Balrogwell, floppy-disk copy protection is easily circumvented with the proper tools / softwareMar 27 14:18
MinceRso is media DRM :>Mar 27 14:19
Balrogmedia DRM imposes more restrictionsMar 27 14:19
Balrogsuch as when you can use it, expiration, etcMar 27 14:19
Balrogbut then again, hardware copy protection is at least as nasty as media DRMMar 27 14:19
oiaohmexpiration happens in mil networks.Mar 27 14:20
Balrog(dongles)Mar 27 14:20
oiaohmkey gets changed in termianl.Mar 27 14:20
oiaohmSo everything on the terminal is rendered useless.Mar 27 14:20
Balrogall data?Mar 27 14:20
oiaohmAll the data in that terminalMar 27 14:20
Balrogwait ... this terminal has a disk?Mar 27 14:21
oiaohmYep.Mar 27 14:21
oiaohmNot all of them.Mar 27 14:21
oiaohmCentral point ones.Mar 27 14:21
Balrogthat's not a good thing, unless the data is backed up before the key changesMar 27 14:22
oiaohmHopefully at other central points.Mar 27 14:22
Balrog(key changes are necessary in an encryption system; WPA does it for wifi)Mar 27 14:22
oiaohmUsing these old style DRM systems you can really badly screw up.Mar 27 14:23
oiaohmSame fault that effects the old style Mil DRM systems effect modern day Media one.Mar 27 14:24
oiaohmBasically think of it as a fast way to scred the data on a terminal yet still make it look active.Mar 27 14:25
oiaohmTo get around that problem holding onto decode keys was allowed.   This is where the mil systems turn almost perfectly from a software point of view into a modernday drm.Mar 27 14:27
oiaohmTake away the gun men at the terminal end and DRM fails.Mar 27 14:28
schestowitzThis one pisses me off TBH: Wikileaks Sponsor Raided By German Police < >Mar 27 14:33
schestowitzTroll-headline: Is open source enabling next-gen vendor lock-in? < >Mar 27 14:37
schestowitzIntroducing YouTube EDU! < >Mar 27 14:38
schestowitzIt's time for the UK government to move to GNU/Linux, just like France: 27 14:45
oiaohm,...  GreatMar 27 14:48
oiaohmNow what is the responce going to be.Mar 27 14:49
oiaohmSome people idea of helpful is stupid.Mar 27 14:49
schestowitzSun put itself on sale? (Intel CEO says Sun was shopped around)Mar 27 14:49
oiaohmYepMar 27 14:49
schestowitzoiaohm: thanksMar 27 14:49
schestowitzGood timingMar 27 14:49
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oiaohmThat the a web site is breached only gives more grounds for dracoian measures.Mar 27 14:50
schestowitzThe Microsoft Shane O'neill shill is attacking Linux again (in IDG, where else?)Mar 27 14:51
schestowitzKey lie: "Microsoft Rules Netbooks Now"Mar 27 14:51
schestowitzErrr... no.Mar 27 14:51
oiaohmMS does rule the Netbooks.Mar 27 14:51
schestowitzDell puts Linux on one in 3 machinesMar 27 14:51
schestowitzIn Europe, Linux has about 40%Mar 27 14:51
oiaohmBut what is the point of ruling it if you are making no profit.Mar 27 14:51
schestowitzMicrosoft uses the NPD BS once againMar 27 14:51
schestowitzThey do it with XBox tooMar 27 14:51
schestowitzUse US-only sales to fake thingsMar 27 14:51
schestowitzMake it seem like US=worldMar 27 14:52
oiaohmDoes not matter really.Mar 27 14:52
oiaohmOk I know you don't like zdnetMar 27 14:52
schestowitzThey try to scare OEMsMar 27 14:52
schestowitzTrying to tell them not to approach LinuxMar 27 14:52
oiaohm  Just for once press the view results on these pages.Mar 27 14:53
schestowitzAnd they use shills like Fried, Bott, Enderle, Gralla, O'Neill...Mar 27 14:53
oiaohmThe percentages are kinda off.Mar 27 14:53
schestowitzAdrian is another Windows lackeyMar 27 14:53
schestowitzA shame that a lot of editors don't know who's who, so they feed the Microsoft talking pointsMar 27 14:54
oiaohmI think someone believed the web numbers about Linux.Mar 27 14:54
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schestowitzYesterday BN was so overloaded that the server didn't dispatch some mailMar 27 14:56
oiaohmLooks like the cache is not helping you enough schestowitzMar 27 14:57
schestowitzI think the PHP scripts were ended before they even got around to sending mail alerts. So even with caching enabled it's no solution because we increase the load elsewhere. trmanco  what's super cache's improvement over wp-cache?Mar 27 14:57
schestowitzoiaohm: it helps to an extentMar 27 14:57
schestowitzThe host was happy with it, but still monitors utilityMar 27 14:58
schestowitzThis is silly... promoting Jesusphone using Linux or vice versa? *ping* MinceR Mar 27 14:59
oiaohmYou have had a lot of advertisement recently.Mar 27 14:59
oiaohmSo number of end users of your site I guess are way up as well.Mar 27 14:59
MinceRwell, if it had proper support, it could turn it into a pda/phone... without warranty, keyboard or memory card slotMar 27 14:59
MinceRHTC does it betterMar 27 14:59
MinceRoh, it's only eye candyMar 27 14:59
MinceRso it's pointlessMar 27 15:00
schestowitzoiaohm: even with caching it does, on average, 128.31 q/secMar 27 15:01
schestowitzAnd it's going up recently because more people use the siteMar 27 15:01
schestowitzMinceR: +1Mar 27 15:01
schestowitzRed Hat is soaring 17% (!!) for beating expectations in a crisis economy.Mar 27 15:03
MinceRstill, if a jesusPhone user is promoting Linux, there still might be hope for the user ;)Mar 27 15:04
schestowitzLinux has better FS than Apple's Mac OS XMar 27 15:04
schestowitzAnd that's just one exampleMar 27 15:04
schestowitzOS X = dumbed-down LinuxMar 27 15:04
schestowitzLike Linux used to be to UNIXMar 27 15:05
Balrogwell OS X has extents and B-Trees ... Linux is only now implementing thatMar 27 15:05
Balrog(in ext4)Mar 27 15:05
Balrogbut I think OS X will soon be using ZFSMar 27 15:05
MinceRBalrog: have you heard of reiserfs, XFS and JFS?Mar 27 15:06
MinceROS X is more like a dumbed-down BSD :>Mar 27 15:07
Balrogsure have. ReiserFS has been not too good in my experience; XFS is problematic for resizing, JFS is quite old...Mar 27 15:07
Balrog(but they're ok)Mar 27 15:07
oiaohmZFS vs btrfs is going to be interesting.Mar 27 15:07
Balrogwhat HFS has always had is a fast filename-searching systemMar 27 15:08
MinceRBalrog: all 3 has extents and B-trees, and have been around for quite some timeMar 27 15:09
MinceRs/has/have/Mar 27 15:09
Balrogwhat about ext2 / ext3?Mar 27 15:09
schestowitzSocial sites dent privacy efforts  < >. Given Email snooping (old), how is this news?Mar 27 15:09
MinceRext3 might have extents, i'm not sureMar 27 15:09
MinceRstill, it makes your previous statement untrueMar 27 15:09
oiaohmext were desiged as a basic filesystem.Mar 27 15:11
oiaohmYou needed more advanced you used something else under Linux.Mar 27 15:11
MinceRi think the main selling point of ext3 is that it's pretty solid and reliable.Mar 27 15:14
oiaohmExactly basic.Mar 27 15:14
oiaohmMore features you add the more reliablity problems you can have.Mar 27 15:14
*schestowitz will have to burn a day extending the passport by 10 yearsMar 27 15:17
schestowitzWouldn't it be good if passports were just a process like registering in a Web site, getting confirmation E-mail and ticking a checkbox? ;-)Mar 27 15:18
MinceRit would be better if there were no states to cross the boundaries ofMar 27 15:19
schestowitzOr airports just a case of coming to the gate, throwing the suitcase on coverer belt at the boarding point?Mar 27 15:19
schestowitz*conveyorMar 27 15:19
schestowitzMinceR: someone always wants to colonise, thus borders (geographical or social)Mar 27 15:20
schestowitzEven animals mark territories. They're just taking the p*ssMar 27 15:20
MinceRthen they're going to need some whacking.Mar 27 15:20
schestowitzThe people at border control? :-DMar 27 15:21
oiaohm  <<btrfs is designed as a upgrade filesystem.Mar 27 15:21
MinceRthe people who want to colonizeMar 27 15:22
schestowitzRamp for migration to OraclinuxMar 27 15:22
MinceRit's called Oracle Unbreakable Linux ;)Mar 27 15:22
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schestowitz 27 15:24
schestowitzCheck out this digitised pot (opengl): 27 15:29
schestowitz (Canonical To Not Enable UXA, Too Problematic)Mar 27 15:44
schestowitzWhat does Europe have against GPLv3? < >. Bureaucratic trolls.Mar 27 15:50
trmanco 27 15:51
schestowitzHehe. Nice.Mar 27 15:58
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WMGarrisonRoy: thank you for the ACT article. Very well written.Mar 27 16:01
schestowitzNo problemMar 27 16:02
schestowitzYours was betterMar 27 16:02
schestowitzThere are followupsMar 27 16:02
schestowitzOne in ECTMar 27 16:02
schestowitzAnother in CWMar 27 16:02
schestowitzAnd Red Hat feels the pinch, sending people to jiggle you in Digital MajorityMar 27 16:03
WMGarrisonIndeedMar 27 16:03
schestowitzI ejoyed writing the latest post thoughMar 27 16:04
WMGarrisonThey will come to see this is for their own goodMar 27 16:04
schestowitz 27 16:04
WMGarrisonThe current burst of action at the EU Commission is probably meaninglessMar 27 16:05
WMGarrisonwe are coming to the end of a termMar 27 16:05
schestowitz Open saucers plan legal attack on patent office < >Mar 27 16:06
schestowitzLSE will have protests tooMar 27 16:06
schestowitzThey'll mess up the placeMar 27 16:06
schestowitzWMGarrison: lots of coverage re: EU+community patentMar 27 16:06
schestowitzBid to secure agreement on patent regime 27 16:06
WMGarrisonThis is standard patent busting approachMar 27 16:06
schestowitzMcCreevyism!Mar 27 16:06
schestowitzPatents: EUROCHAMBRES welcomes negotiation mandate for the European Commission "Today, the European Commission requested from the Council a negotiation mandate on the European and Community Patent Court." 27 16:07
schestowitzMeilensteine: Gewonnener Kampf gegen Softwarepatente -> 27 16:07
schestowitz 27 16:07
WMGarrisonAll hell seems to have broken loose but it is probably for show.  Nothing serious can happen any longer in this session.Mar 27 16:08
WMGarrisonI assume many lobbyists and PR people are putting in lots of invoiceable hoursMar 27 16:08
WMGarrisonI have summarized our questions to Red Hat here: 27 16:09
schestowitzThanks.Mar 27 16:09
schestowitz*/me looksMar 27 16:09
*schestowitz looksMar 27 16:10
WMGarrisonThanks to you, you do a very important jobMar 27 16:10
schestowitzWho was it mailed to?Mar 27 16:10
WMGarrisonRed Hat's jwildeboer is aware of it.Mar 27 16:11
schestowitzIntel patent war erupts: 27 16:11
WMGarrisonIf there is interest, we may send it as an open letterMar 27 16:11
schestowitzI can repost it. Some in Red Hat read BoycottNovellMar 27 16:12
WMGarrisonMy thanksMar 27 16:13
WMGarrisonPerhaps we hold Red Hat to a higher standardMar 27 16:14
schestowitzYes, they got highMar 27 16:15
schestowitzACT was also defending MS in the EU antotrust case.Mar 27 16:15
schestowitzThere are video recordings of him on the Audiovisual website of theMar 27 16:15
schestowitzCommission.Mar 27 16:15
schestowitzOops. Wrong clipboard stackMar 27 16:15
schestowitzI was gonna paste a link to RHAT  (RHT now) jumping 17%Mar 27 16:15
schestowitzThey had good resultsMar 27 16:15
schestowitzThe Apple of the Linux world... vanity impliedMar 27 16:15
WMGarrisonZuck is well known in Brussels as the "large American software patents guy"Mar 27 16:15
schestowitzHe's a lrge guyMar 27 16:16
schestowitzNot sure about "American software patents"Mar 27 16:16
schestowitzMaybe they can send him to boot camp to lose some weightMar 27 16:16
schestowitzIt wouldl keep him out of Brussels for a whileMar 27 16:16
WMGarrisonMust leave, goodbyeMar 27 16:16
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MinceRthe French invented a nice way to lose weight quicklyMar 27 16:17
schestowitzOff with em ehads?Mar 27 16:17
MinceRindeedMar 27 16:18
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schestowitzOpera plans Turbo mobile peek < >Mar 27 16:25
schestowitzBallmer's bully buddy has just had his wage slashed: Can EMC take the next step and give Tucci the boot? That wouldn't save VMware from the 3 Microsoft employees/executives Tucci installed in it... what a traitor.Mar 27 16:27
schestowitz"Extreme Networks told the Securities and Exchange Commission yesterday that it is cutting more jobs." 27 16:28
schestowitzzoobab01: Good post: To what extent can imatrix play a role in bias though?Mar 27 16:48
schestowitz"This is the same company which could've adopted ODF (open document format), a perfectly good document standard which had already passed ISO standards, but instead railroaded ISO to have openxml approved despite mountains of problems." 27 16:49
schestowitz (Twitter still has no business model, and that's OK)Mar 27 16:53
schestowitzSEC Plans New Money Manager Rules After Madoff Fraud < >Mar 27 17:11
schestowitzAmazon To Shutdown 3 Distribution Centers, Affecting 210 employees  < > RMS boycotts themMar 27 17:18
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schestowitzNowhere to hide: Forensic tool moves to Linux < >Mar 27 17:34
schestowitz (Who cares if XP support is ending?) Microsoft commits acts of stupidity again.Mar 27 17:34
PetoKraushmmMar 27 17:41
PetoKrausi don't think the "forensic tool" can do anything you couldn't gather manuallyMar 27 17:41
PetoKrausonly that it may be certified to ensure the evidence is not plantedMar 27 17:41
schestowitzIt's Mac utils anywayMar 27 17:42
schestowitzNot of much useMar 27 17:42
*Omar871 has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))Mar 27 17:42
PetoKrauswhich i guess is the reason why the price point is so highMar 27 17:42
schestowitzHmmmmmm.... "After the recently leaked document from his ESS WG (the current rumour is that Zuck did it on purpose) [...] Secrecy and mystery are powerful weapons. Just think about ACTA and the so called leak of a preparatory information document by anyone. That gave ACTA a whole lot of buzz. I even doubt the ACTA document was confidential."Mar 27 17:44
schestowitz"My initial idea was to get you some parts of the document, and then ask someone if he can "leak" the (actually public and non-confidential) document. It is not formally "confidential" but no one has it. These are "lost documents" and there are hundreds."Mar 27 17:44
schestowitzDoes anyone have the latest ACTA revision?Mar 27 17:44
schestowitzre: Novell deal.. "YEP! Pretty hard to communicate openly and properly about a SECRET agreement. Make the agreement open and public and let us judge for itself whether you sold your soul or not..." 27 18:02
schestowitz "Wow, Jim, really? Perhaps you shouldn't be CEO of a Linux company. How does Microsoft make money off of Windows? They sell it. I know it sounds crazy, Jim, but that's how it works. You create something that people want and they'll buy it. Isn't that cool?"Mar 27 18:06
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wispygalaxyhi everyone!Mar 27 18:23
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wispygalaxyhi, is anyone here??Mar 27 18:31
trmancohelloMar 27 18:32
wispygalaxyhi tony :)Mar 27 18:33
trmanco:)Mar 27 18:33
wispygalaxyso you made it hahaMar 27 18:33
wispygalaxyis roy aroundMar 27 18:33
trmancoI'm always around here -PMar 27 18:33
trmancoping schestowitzMar 27 18:33
trmancoI think he isMar 27 18:33
wispygalaxycool thxMar 27 18:33
wispygalaxydid you get my message i sent youMar 27 18:34
trmancoon digg? yeahMar 27 18:34
wispygalaxyoh ok goodMar 27 18:34
wispygalaxyim at school now, what about youMar 27 18:35
trmancoI typed earlier this morning that you were joining the BN's channel todayMar 27 18:35
wispygalaxythx, hope he got the messageMar 27 18:36
trmancoI'm at home, preparing myself for the best 10 days of my like :-PMar 27 18:36
trmancolife*Mar 27 18:36
wispygalaxyspring break for you? :DMar 27 18:36
trmancoyeah, but I'm going out to another country to party :-PMar 27 18:36
wispygalaxyi had mine earlier this month, it was cloudy almost everyday during my vacation :(Mar 27 18:36
wispygalaxynice where are you goingMar 27 18:36
wispygalaxyi wanted to go to florida with my family, but my sister was at collegeMar 27 18:37
trmancosome little city in SpainMar 27 18:37
wispygalaxythats nice, north or south?Mar 27 18:37
trmancoI have to check I dunnoMar 27 18:37
trmanconorth I guessMar 27 18:38
wispygalaxyi would like to go to spain tooMar 27 18:38
trmanco 27 18:38
wispygalaxyi see it's near franceMar 27 18:39
trmancoyesMar 27 18:39
wispygalaxyive been to france before, but when i was a babyMar 27 18:40
trmancoI've never been to France yetMar 27 18:40
schestowitzHey, wispygalaxy Mar 27 18:40
wispygalaxyhi roy! :)Mar 27 18:40
wispygalaxyyou should go tony, i want to go there again because i dont remember anything about my visit thereMar 27 18:41
*schestowitz catches upMar 27 18:41
wispygalaxyi came about 10 minutes agoMar 27 18:41
trmancoI would like to visit Paris some dayMar 27 18:41
schestowitzSorry, got distracted by something)Mar 27 18:41
wispygalaxyi was lonely here for a whileMar 27 18:41
wispygalaxyhahaMar 27 18:41
trmanco:-PMar 27 18:41
wispygalaxymy sister knows a lot of frenchMar 27 18:42
wispygalaxythats ok roy ;)Mar 27 18:42
wispygalaxyits so nice where im at, i hate being stuck inside for class when its spring :(Mar 27 18:43
wispygalaxyi saw tulips near my dorm, they are the only flowers i saw so far on campusMar 27 18:43
wispygalaxystill, things are ugly around here: no leaves on trees yetMar 27 18:44
schestowitzhows digg?Mar 27 18:45
*schestowitz eats a sandwichMar 27 18:45
wispygalaxyhaha i just had one today royMar 27 18:46
wispygalaxywhat typeMar 27 18:46
wispygalaxydigg is okay, not like it was a year agoMar 27 18:46
schestowitzsardines :-sMar 27 18:46
schestowitzdigg is depressingMar 27 18:46
wispygalaxymy sister likes sardines on her pizza XDMar 27 18:46
schestowitzdead more or lessMar 27 18:47
wispygalaxyyeah its all dumb stuff nowMar 27 18:47
schestowitzthe honeymoons overMar 27 18:47
wispygalaxydarnMar 27 18:47
wispygalaxythe linux section is still readableMar 27 18:47
wispygalaxythanks to motang, astralknight, etcMar 27 18:47
wispygalaxyso what do you plan to do this weekend, roy?Mar 27 18:48
wispygalaxyi might go to the park, anything that has to do with the outdoorsMar 27 18:49
schestowitzOK, now I can typeMar 27 18:51
schestowitzastralknight? Don't know that user...Mar 27 18:52
wispygalaxyhe's new on diggMar 27 18:52
schestowitzIt's too cold here to enjoy being outside.Mar 27 18:52
wispygalaxyjust friended himMar 27 18:52
wispygalaxyawww that sucksMar 27 18:52
schestowitzNo wayMar 27 18:52
schestowitzPeople still join Digg?Mar 27 18:52
wispygalaxyyeah hahaMar 27 18:52
schestowitzOhMar 27 18:52
wispygalaxypolitics have taken over digg though, i dont see them b/c i blocked themMar 27 18:53
schestowitzThe anti-Google lobby: Copyright - let the authors beware < >Mar 27 18:54
schestowitzDigg politics = "ron paul tee rulez +4422 digg" Mar 27 18:54
wispygalaxyhaha ron paul is not *all* thatMar 27 18:55
wispygalaxyhe doesnt believe in evolutionMar 27 18:55
wispygalaxythats unacceptableMar 27 18:55
schestowitzI find the most articles that are interesting to me in TuxMachinesMar 27 18:55
schestowitzDigg seems obsolete for newsMar 27 18:55
wispygalaxyso trueMar 27 18:55
schestowitzIt's for self-pleasing fans of <thing>Mar 27 18:56
wispygalaxyits all 'funny' videos and apple newsMar 27 18:56
schestowitzFunny  = "kevin rose squeaks at cat"Mar 27 18:56
wispygalaxylolMar 27 18:56
schestowitzI think Ars Technica games DiggMar 27 18:56
schestowitzOther sites do, for  a factMar 27 18:57
schestowitzThe basis for the site is hackedMar 27 18:57
wispygalaxyi think a lot of site doMar 27 18:57
schestowitzThey thought people would promote important newsMar 27 18:57
wispygalaxyso many spammers friend me on diggMar 27 18:57
schestowitzInstead people promote what they WANT promotedMar 27 18:57
wispygalaxyits not another slashdot i guess lolMar 27 18:57
schestowitzThat's a seperate and mutually-indep' thingMar 27 18:57
schestowitz*SeparateMar 27 18:57
schestowitzAlso, Rose himself complained about itMar 27 18:57
wispygalaxy'power diggers'Mar 27 18:58
schestowitzwispygalaxy: I think it is (another /.)Mar 27 18:58
wispygalaxyoh yeah, with the trollsMar 27 18:58
schestowitzgamed by marketing people and ruined by agendaMar 27 18:58
wispygalaxy*sigh*Mar 27 18:58
schestowitzLike AstroTurfersMar 27 18:58
schestowitzMaybe Murdoch will just buy Digg and call it a dayMar 27 18:58
schestowitzRIPMar 27 18:58
wispygalaxyleave us alone!  we want to promote linux, and you guys are spreading mean and untrue thingsMar 27 18:59
wispygalaxymurdoch's wealth was halved, i heardMar 27 18:59
wispygalaxydiversify your portfolio, i sayMar 27 18:59
wispygalaxyi hear that in all of my finance courses, but people *still* dont do thatMar 27 19:00
wispygalaxybanks dont even focus on diversification; they worry too much about net interest income moreMar 27 19:00
trmancowho's Murdoch?Mar 27 19:00
wispygalaxyrupert murdoch is the head of newscorpMar 27 19:00
wispygalaxywhich owns the wall street journalMar 27 19:01
wispygalaxyi had to subscribe to that last semesterMar 27 19:01
wispygalaxy$30Mar 27 19:01
trmancoWowMar 27 19:01
wispygalaxyit also owns fox newsMar 27 19:01
schestowitzThe RIAA vs. 19 Year Old Cancer Patient < >Mar 27 19:01
schestowitzwispygalaxy: you paid the BeastMar 27 19:02
wispygalaxyjerksMar 27 19:02
wispygalaxymy professor made us subscribe, she had the electronic list of people who had a subscriptionMar 27 19:03
wispygalaxyat least i dont read it nowMar 27 19:03
wispygalaxyi read online news exclusivelyMar 27 19:03
Omar87hiMar 27 19:03
wispygalaxyhey omarMar 27 19:03
schestowitz "The online music store, under pressure from record labels, is abandoning its 99-cent-only strategy."Mar 27 19:04
wispygalaxylisten to the market and your customers, that is the way to goMar 27 19:04
schestowitzWSJ is among the few dinosaurs that restrict online accessMar 27 19:04
schestowitzBut the WSJ dinosaur is merely owned by another dinosaur, who may think of it as a lookalike petMar 27 19:05
wispygalaxyold people nowadays seem to only read papersMar 27 19:05
wispygalaxyi live next door to two elderly couples, both get newspapersMar 27 19:05
wispygalaxymy dad never got the paper because he's allergic to newsprintMar 27 19:05
wispygalaxytrue storyMar 27 19:05
wispygalaxyi heard congress wants to rescue US papersMar 27 19:06
trmanco:|Mar 27 19:06
wispygalaxystop with the government spending!Mar 27 19:06
trmancoI just hate to be anxious for something sorry for the [OT]...Mar 27 19:06
trmancogrrrMar 27 19:06
trmancotime just won't pass byMar 27 19:06
wispygalaxythats ok tonyMar 27 19:06
wispygalaxyi cant wait for the next decade, hopefully things will be betterMar 27 19:07
*trmanco opens email, and hopes he has 5000 new emails to readMar 27 19:07
wispygalaxyits not over 9000Mar 27 19:07
wispygalaxy:(Mar 27 19:07
trmanco2010? what is so special about that year? Linux owns Windows again? :-pMar 27 19:08
wispygalaxyi think taxes change that year in the USMar 27 19:08
wispygalaxyinheritance tax, not sureMar 27 19:09
schestowitzSaving newspaper is stupidMar 27 19:10
schestowitzWe have something better alreadyMar 27 19:10
schestowitzLike wikileaks and blogsMar 27 19:10
schestowitzBut they try to save their old buddies at taxpayers' expense. That's you.Mar 27 19:10
trmancothat would be great, if the change to lessMar 27 19:10
wispygalaxyfaster access to info, less trees dying, and less cumbersome to handleMar 27 19:10
Balrogwhat do you think, ogg or mkv?Mar 27 19:10
trmancoBalrog, oggMar 27 19:10
schestowitz"Give us your money, wispygalaxy, we need to fund some propaganda to fund *you*"Mar 27 19:10
wispygalaxyhi balrog!Mar 27 19:10
wispygalaxytony, i think the taxes will be 0% in 2010 for inheritanceMar 27 19:11
schestowitzActually, the thing about PR is terrible because it's a Trillion$ industry in the US that taxpayers in the US fundMar 27 19:11
Balrogyeah, but a very good program for transcoding stuff I use (FOSS) doesn't support it wellMar 27 19:11
wispygalaxyhaha royMar 27 19:11
wispygalaxydont brainwash me!!!Mar 27 19:11
schestowitzSo they pay to be deceived, essnetially.Mar 27 19:11
schestowitzYet nobody protestsMar 27 19:11
Balrogthey say 'because ogg doesn't support VFR [variable framerates]'Mar 27 19:11
wispygalaxyb/c they are watching american idol and dont careMar 27 19:11
schestowitzAmerican Idol is selling dreams to peopleMar 27 19:12
schestowitz"Work hard, stop thinking, maybe you'll be famous"Mar 27 19:12
trmancocrap, I only have 400 emails to readMar 27 19:12
wispygalaxyi was soo obsessed with that show in middle schoolMar 27 19:12
wispygalaxyi watched *every* episodeMar 27 19:12
wispygalaxylike the fangirl i wasMar 27 19:12
schestowitzThis prevents people from pursuing things that might be more challenging to then. it's a cycle that is hard to escape, and it's designed this wayMar 27 19:12
wispygalaxytony i have email inbox problems too haha, i can never read all of themMar 27 19:13
schestowitzwispygalaxy: not good for youMar 27 19:13
schestowitzHarmful to people's esteemMar 27 19:13
BalrogI always read all emailMar 27 19:13
schestowitzMaking heroes is a weaspon to controlling minds and feelings.Mar 27 19:13
schestowitzPeople live in the reflection of TV idolsMar 27 19:14
wispygalaxyits like greek mythologyMar 27 19:14
schestowitzYou can then project habit via celebrities and onto people who admire themMar 27 19:14
wispygalaxypeople loved and hated their godsMar 27 19:14
schestowitzit's a fascinating PR technique that they haveMar 27 19:14
wispygalaxybalrog, i get so many emails from youtubeMar 27 19:14
schestowitzLikewise with shopping, AKA spanding/spreeing.Mar 27 19:14
schestowitzit's a culture that increase loan giivng (money to banks) and boosts revenue for shopsMar 27 19:14
Balrogwispygalaxy: why do you have youtube sending emails?Mar 27 19:15
schestowitzNow they take the toll. Ho hum...Mar 27 19:15
wispygalaxymy sister is a shopping champ, she gets at least 2 articles of clothing every time she goes to the mallMar 27 19:15
Balrogdoes she wear all the clothing?Mar 27 19:15
wispygalaxybalrog, they alert me to videos sent from friends.  i dont miss them that wayMar 27 19:15
wispygalaxyyes she does balrog hahaMar 27 19:15
BalrogI seeMar 27 19:15
schestowitzBalrog: why wear them?Mar 27 19:15
schestowitzIt's materialistic possessionMar 27 19:16
wispygalaxyeverytime i see her, i dont recognize at least one part of her outfitMar 27 19:16
Balrogheh lolMar 27 19:16
schestowitzAccumulation as an esteem factorMar 27 19:16
trmancooh crapMar 27 19:16
Balrogthat's going too far ......Mar 27 19:16
trmancoSun is against linuxMar 27 19:16
Balrogespecially with something like clothes :/Mar 27 19:16
Balrogtrmanco: linkMar 27 19:16
wispygalaxywhen i ask her about it, she says "ugh dont you remember?? i got this last week at forever 21.  you were there!"Mar 27 19:16
schestowitzWomen often buy articles of clothing to replace old onesMar 27 19:16
schestowitzThe trouble is that older ones  become obsoleteMar 27 19:16
Balrogthough I know they like to promote [Open]SolarisMar 27 19:16
wispygalaxyor out of fashion ones!Mar 27 19:16
trmancoBalrog, 27 19:16
schestowitzFashion instructs planned obsolecenseMar 27 19:16
trmancojust received this newsletterMar 27 19:17
schestowitzIf you change fashion constantly and use famous people to push it, then old clotihing become obsoleteMar 27 19:17
wispygalaxymy dad still has shirts from the '80s, its up to my mom to dispose of them.  my family is not poor at all, thoughMar 27 19:17
schestowitzThat's findMar 27 19:17
schestowitzSentimental valueMar 27 19:17
schestowitzSometimes the old clothes bear some memoryMar 27 19:17
schestowitzAttachment is formedMar 27 19:17
schestowitzBut anyway..Mar 27 19:17
schestowitzThat's bad for industryMar 27 19:18
schestowitzit thrives in obsolescence.Mar 27 19:18
schestowitzVista for exampleMar 27 19:18
wispygalaxythere will always be demand for fashion, dont worry designers!Mar 27 19:18
schestowitzYou need new chips and monitors that are DRM- and TC-'ready'Mar 27 19:18
wispygalaxyalso the car industry with FordMar 27 19:18
wispygalaxythe model t was involved with planned obsolescenceMar 27 19:18
schestowitzClothing too. It's important to single out and marginalise those who don't comply with fashion trendsMar 27 19:19
schestowitzElse they might *god forbid* not buy the latest and greatestMar 27 19:19
wispygalaxyat college, fashion is not as big of an issue as it was in high schoolMar 27 19:19
schestowitzCommodity in fashion is another issueMar 27 19:19
wispygalaxythere were so many punks, preppy, emo, and scene kids at my schoolMar 27 19:19
schestowitzClothing fares need to be artificially inflated.Mar 27 19:19
schestowitzFashion and advertising can do thatMar 27 19:19
schestowitz"Selling a dream" as Guy Kawasaki called itMar 27 19:20
schestowitzWhy people buy Macs for so much money......Mar 27 19:20
schestowitzThey buy an imageMar 27 19:20
wispygalaxyi learned about that in my marketing classMar 27 19:20
wispygalaxyremember hathaway shirts?  they were so successful because it was all about image, the shirts were nothing special; they were massed produced.  but the ads had a fancy theme to themMar 27 19:21
Balrogschestowitz: not always. That's a certain percentageMar 27 19:21
Balrogmaybe ... 25-50%Mar 27 19:21
Balrogmany people buy macs for practical purposesMar 27 19:22
Balrog(at least many people I know)Mar 27 19:22
schestowitzYes, I exaggerated :-)Mar 27 19:22
schestowitzBalrog: my Apple remarks are often tongue-in-cheekMar 27 19:22
schestowitzI wish Apple had sold with less attitudinal emphasisMar 27 19:23
wispygalaxycheeky hahaMar 27 19:23
schestowitzLike the pretentionous that's dripping from the adsMar 27 19:23
BalrogI had a friend ... he passed away a couple of years ago, but he was in a newspaper editor and had to deal with the old archaic formats ... he also did video stuff .... always used macsMar 27 19:23
wispygalaxyconspicuous consumptionMar 27 19:23
Balrogads are adsMar 27 19:23
Balrogthe MS ads that will be coming up should be interestingMar 27 19:24
wispygalaxyi saw the MS ad with the woman who had to buy a computer for under $1000Mar 27 19:24
wispygalaxydo you guys want a linkMar 27 19:24
schestowitzBN has just been entered into ODF Planet \0/Mar 27 19:24
MinceRi wish apple just hurried up and died alreadyMar 27 19:25
wispygalaxyis there a link for thatMar 27 19:25
BalrogApple won't dieMar 27 19:25
Balrogsorry :DMar 27 19:25
schestowitzNot yetMar 27 19:25
MinceRyes, i know, the fanboys won't ever shut upMar 27 19:25
schestowitzMicrosoft might still be harrassing themMar 27 19:25
Balrogthey will have to adapt as linux becomes more prevalent thoughMar 27 19:25
schestowitzPJ thinks soMar 27 19:25
schestowitzShe wrote about it tofayMar 27 19:25
Balrogand I don't see how that would be hardMar 27 19:25
MinceRin fact, i almost wrote "i wish the apple fanboys shut up"Mar 27 19:25
schestowitzIn Groklaw..Mar 27 19:25
schestowitzlawsuits by proxyMar 27 19:26
MinceRbut then i realized there's a lot more to apple than marketing and obnoxious cultistsMar 27 19:26
wispygalaxysco, royMar 27 19:26
MinceRthere's the push for DRM and sw patentsMar 27 19:26
wispygalaxybad appleMar 27 19:26
schestowitzwispygalaxy: not just SCOMar 27 19:26
MinceRthere's the patent issues and the constant stream of FUDMar 27 19:26
schestowitzThey also told publishers to sue Google pretty muchMar 27 19:26
wispygalaxypoor tomtom!Mar 27 19:26
schestowitzSome of this is done openlyMar 27 19:26
schestowitzSome is less subtleMar 27 19:26
wispygalaxydont hurt googleMar 27 19:27
Balrogapple told publishers to sue google? Apple partners with google for a lot of thingsMar 27 19:27
schestowitzMicrosoft mode of operation is still the sameMar 27 19:27
schestowitzRun by ne-gangsters at the topMar 27 19:27
Balrogor is that MS?Mar 27 19:27
MinceRBalrog: i doubt that adapting is compatible with the apple cultureMar 27 19:27
MinceRmaybe after jobs finally diesMar 27 19:27
schestowitz[H]omer would knowMar 27 19:27
MinceRbut then apple will probably followMar 27 19:27
Balrogof course it is...why did they put Xorg into 10.3?Mar 27 19:27
Balrog(yes, it's an addon, but before 10.3 there was no decent Xorg)Mar 27 19:27
MinceRyay, it's an addon no self-respecting apple fanboy would touchMar 27 19:28
MinceRsince it's not the holy osx guiMar 27 19:28
BalrogI touch it when I need toMar 27 19:28
wispygalaxywhat's up with aquaMar 27 19:28
Balrogthe OS X gui isn't bad, when you start programming itMar 27 19:28
Balrogif you don't want to touch OS X, look at GNUStep and Etoile OSMar 27 19:28
MinceRi think we've already discussed why the bad can't be programmed out of it :>Mar 27 19:28
Balrogwispygalaxy: MinceR wants such annoying things as focus-follows-mouseMar 27 19:29
MinceRi've looked at GNUstep and i prefer KDEMar 27 19:29
Balrogthings like that drive me crazyMar 27 19:29
MinceRi've never heard of etoile OSMar 27 19:29
wispygalaxyhaha balrogMar 27 19:29
wispygalaxykde FTW!Mar 27 19:29
MinceRBalrog: yes, please tell everyone how they should use their GUIMar 27 19:29
Balrogit's a layer on top of GNUStepMar 27 19:29
MinceRafter all, that's what apple doesMar 27 19:29
MinceRand above all the fanboysMar 27 19:29
BalrogMinceR: please tell companies to put a feature in that < 0.01% of users will useMar 27 19:30
MinceRi don't need companies to do thatMar 27 19:30
wispygalaxythere should be as much choice as possible for people who care about itMar 27 19:30
MinceRthere's a great community that does just thatMar 27 19:30
Balrogif they did that for all features requested, could would be so bloatedMar 27 19:30
Balrogor ask a foss projectMar 27 19:30
MinceRyou know, the sort of people whose work you despiseMar 27 19:30
schestowitzFujitsu staff clash with bosses over pay freeze < >Mar 27 19:30
MinceRand whose work apple rips off and sells to you for lots of moneyMar 27 19:30
BalrogI just had a problem with a foss project today ... their ogg support is broken and they don't want to fix itMar 27 19:30
MinceRand then whom apple tries to prevent from doing that work in the futureMar 27 19:31
Balrogthey say it's deprecated and use MKV but I need oggMar 27 19:31
Balrogsounds like what you're talking about Apple ... in a foss projectMar 27 19:31
wispygalaxyroy, all firms should know that messing with pay is a no-no.  if a company freezes dividends, that will make stockholders very angryMar 27 19:32
BalroghehMar 27 19:32
wispygalaxyim playing a stockholder game in my investment banking class, and the manual says don't f*ck with dividendsMar 27 19:33
trmanco 27 19:33
BalrogKDE crashes a lot for me, unfortunatelyMar 27 19:33
Balrogeven 4.2Mar 27 19:33
wispygalaxyuh oh!Mar 27 19:33
BalrogXFCE and GNOME are stableMar 27 19:33
wispygalaxywell, im on 3.5 right nowMar 27 19:33
BalrogI don't like 3.x :(Mar 27 19:33
Balrograther have gnomeMar 27 19:33
wispygalaxybut i want to use 4.2... it's pretty!  :DMar 27 19:33
wispygalaxythanks tonyMar 27 19:34
Balrogyeah, pretty, like vista :PMar 27 19:34
wispygalaxyyou can customize it though!Mar 27 19:34
schestowitzwispygalaxy: the manual says "f*ck"?Mar 27 19:34
wispygalaxyno hahaMar 27 19:34
wispygalaxyim paraphrasingMar 27 19:35
schestowitzVery much so, I'm sureMar 27 19:35
MinceRif stockholders had a clue, they'd know that dividends don't really matterMar 27 19:35
wispygalaxythe manual is written by a boring professor, nuff saidMar 27 19:35
schestowitztrmanco: watch how one of the PR drones submit the same thing and makes FPMar 27 19:36
wispygalaxycapital gains > dividendsMar 27 19:36
trmancoschestowitz, yeah, I'll be waitingMar 27 19:36
wispygalaxywho is the PR drone?Mar 27 19:36
trmancobut I hope mine makes the frontpageMar 27 19:36
MinceRi thought they were equal :)Mar 27 19:36
wispygalaxycapital gains are the changes in stock price, dividends are incomeMar 27 19:36
MinceRyesMar 27 19:37
wispygalaxythey are taxed differentlyMar 27 19:37
MinceRi meant that it doesn't matter which way you profitMar 27 19:37
MinceRoh, taxes might change the gameMar 27 19:37
wispygalaxyits better to have capital gains since they are usually taxed at a lower rate (not at the income tax level)Mar 27 19:37

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