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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 27th, 2009 - Part 2


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oiaohmMost evil is really X11Apr 27 03:12
oiaohmWith custom alterations.Apr 27 03:12
oiaohmThat is also being handled with dri2Apr 27 03:13
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oiaohmAfter containers and X11 updates are competely I will be having another go at the merge everything distribution.Apr 27 03:13
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_Hicham_oiaohm : do u think that packaging can be profitable?Apr 27 03:18
oiaohmI run servers.Apr 27 03:19
oiaohmSo there is nothing strange for people to be wanting different distributions to do different tasks.Apr 27 03:20
oiaohmEnd of the distribution mess would reduce my complexity.Apr 27 03:20
oiaohmSo do you call that profitable.Apr 27 03:21
jose_Xoiaohm, do you have a good link on containers?Apr 27 03:22
jose_Xoiaohm, the distro merge is interesting. hopefully the problem can be attacked closer to the root but all techniques will probably come in handy in various cases.Apr 27 03:29
jose_Xwill leave irc really soon i thinkApr 27 03:29
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jose_Xyeah, i hope we figure out a way to leverage source code to solve some of these problems.. moving from centrally created distros to distributively specified and user defined distrosApr 27 03:33
jose_XgnApr 27 03:33
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twitter:-DApr 27 03:36
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_Hicham_are u still here oiaohm?Apr 27 04:12
oiaohm_Connection when funny.Apr 27 04:14
_Hicham_maybe u have been hijackedApr 27 04:15
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twitterIck, Roy, why on Earth did you link to this moron, 27 04:29
twitter?Apr 27 04:29
twitterIt's like reading a Philip Morris rep telling you that you might as well keep smoking because no one really knows anything.Apr 27 04:30
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twitterPeople eat poor Mr. Grimes up in the comments. 27 04:33
twitterComment #1,  "Microsoft Security Advisor seems to be an oxymoron. First, that well publicized advice  to move off of IE and ideally off Microsoft Windows all together was given in the context of demonstrated flaw"Apr 27 04:33
twitterI think I see now.  It's an amazing admission of popular opinion by a M$ person, "Dump Windows == better security"Apr 27 04:44
oiaohm_That is a bard artical.Apr 27 04:44
oiaohm_bad artical.Apr 27 04:44
oiaohm_tracking the lion and cheese worm data disputes that.Apr 27 04:45
oiaohm_Thing that about a multi culture that slows an attacker down is the different security systems in effect.Apr 27 04:45
oiaohm_Particularly if attack cannot tell what one they have in advance.Apr 27 04:45
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twitterThere are so many flaws and lies that the article is not worth reading.Apr 27 05:01
twitterIt's a M$ troll.  I doubt even the author believes what he wrote.Apr 27 05:01
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ushimitsudokiIt's a stupid argument because he is basically saying: "there is no solid proof that a non-monoculture environment would be more secure." By extension, then, there is no solid proof that a non-monoculture environment would *not* be more secure, so we must rely on logic and reason and extrapolation. It is true, of course, that it is *possible* that a non-monoculture would not offer any security advantages, but it seemApr 27 05:06
twitterthere's plenty of proof of both Windows insecurity and free software security.Apr 27 05:07
twitterlike I said, the article reads like a tobacco industry rep trying to tell you you should smoke moreApr 27 05:08
ushimitsudokiYes, I agree the tobacco industry analogy is good. The denial of obvious logic and reason with the assertion that there is a lack of "scientific proof" feels like it is straight out of a Phillip Morris playbookApr 27 05:09
twitter:)Apr 27 05:10
ushimitsudokiHe's got enough truth in there to try to come across as reasonable (his last point is valid, although spun hard in favor of MS). The vast majority of the rest, however, is pure flim-flam.Apr 27 05:12
twittermisdirection is almost always made of something that looks like truth but the point is to lieApr 27 05:15
twitterThere's no truth in denying M$'s awful security record and there is no equating Windows to free software.  Free software is simply better.Apr 27 05:16
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oiaohm_Problem here is simple.Apr 27 05:28
oiaohm_He is not 100 percent wrong.Apr 27 05:28
oiaohm_There is a lot of neglect in the open source world.Apr 27 05:28
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oiaohm_Take ubuntu using apparmor.Apr 27 05:28
oiaohm_A system that is documented as flawed.Apr 27 05:28
the_mad_hatterEvening. Huffington Post has an article written by Bill Gates Sr.Apr 27 05:29
the_mad_hatter 27 05:29
the_mad_hatterHe thinks Bill Gates Jr. is a good kid.Apr 27 05:29
the_mad_hatterI think he's mad.Apr 27 05:31
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twittermore of the same, "we're ordinary people" propaganda M$ is famous for.  Bill Gates was giving parenting advice before he was married.Apr 27 05:45
twitterthe Gates have spent a life time of ruthless self interest.  nothing much has changed, including their self congratulationsApr 27 05:47
the_mad_hatterStill Roy may be able to use it.Apr 27 05:56
twitterI suppose ... it was just too awful, could not read all of it.Apr 27 05:57
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Apr 27 07:00:06 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovellApr 27 07:00
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: "Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications" [publicly logged]Apr 27 07:00
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sun Oct 5 19:20:28 2008Apr 27 07:00
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Apr 27 07:08:18 2009
*Now talking on #boycottnovellApr 27 07:08
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: "Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications" [publicly logged]Apr 27 07:08
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sun Oct 5 19:20:28 2008Apr 27 07:08
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schestowitz 27 08:00
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schestowitzWindows gets less secure as times goes by: 27 08:59
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schestowitzMy thoughts on Oracle and mysql: 27 09:26
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schestowitzSomeone has sent me a book review that sucks up to Microsoft. Maybe I'll weave some in if I get the chance. :-)Apr 27 09:36
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_Hicham_Hi schestowitz!Apr 27 09:40
schestowitzHey thereApr 27 09:41
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MinceRgeekingsApr 27 10:05
oiaohmHi MinceRApr 27 10:06
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_Hicham_hi oiaohmApr 27 10:12
oiaohmHaving fun _Hicham_Apr 27 10:16
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_Hicham_having fun?Apr 27 10:23
_Hicham_are u playing a game?Apr 27 10:23
oiaohmGetting a virtual desktop by web setup.Apr 27 10:26
oiaohmI don't know if you call that a game.Apr 27 10:26
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schestowitzThe Huffington Post and a new book redo history as we know it: 27 10:31
schestowitzI forgot to change (shorten) post slug.Apr 27 10:32
oiaohmThat one you picked up on monoculture of OS was arguement causing schestowitzApr 27 10:34
schestowitzApple's retail layoffs misstated? < >Apr 27 10:35
schestowitzFair enough, I guessApr 27 10:35
schestowitzBut they have less staff now.. full-time staff.Apr 27 10:35
schestowitzoiaohm:yes, I quoted you on itApr 27 10:36
schestowitzoh, waitApr 27 10:36
schestowitzI mean something elseApr 27 10:36
schestowitzNot the Grimes articleApr 27 10:36
schestowitzWhich was in LXerApr 27 10:36
schestowitzI did a post about Vista7 stringing together vulns from two OSes (VMsApr 27 10:36
oiaohmIts in the links.Apr 27 10:38
schestowitzYes, I know.Apr 27 10:39
schestowitzI found it in LXer. bad inclusion?Apr 27 10:39
oiaohm  << That one schestowitzApr 27 10:39
oiaohmIts Microsoft bent but its not 100 percent wrong.Apr 27 10:40
oiaohmHey you have to drop cat in Linux camp from time to time.Apr 27 10:41
schestowitzEU Approves Copyright Extension, Despite Evidence Of The Harm It Does < >Apr 27 10:42
oiaohmcheese worm and lion dispute it findings.   Key thing there was detectablity of the multi culture.Apr 27 10:42
schestowitzoiaohm: Schneier debunks them tooApr 27 10:43
oiaohmIf attacker can detect what they are going head to head with it makes no difference.Apr 27 10:43
schestowitzAnd someone I know accuses him of being Microsoft bent nowApr 27 10:43
oiaohmSecuirty though true obsecurity combind with multi culture.Apr 27 10:43
oiaohmIs what is required.Apr 27 10:43
oiaohmIe true obsecurity does not mean keeping source code hidden.Apr 27 10:43
oiaohmIts does the attacker know what they are going head to head with if no you have obsecuirty.Apr 27 10:44
oiaohmIts like a house that you know what bobby traps the could of used but you don't know if they did.Apr 27 10:44
oiaohmMono culture and multi culture is only a small segement of problem.Apr 27 10:45
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oiaohmMaking out that there is no difference between Mono culture and multi culture to attacker leaving out the key of true obsecurity was a flawed document.Apr 27 10:47
oiaohmIn the same class MS has produced for a long time.Apr 27 10:47
oiaohmDocument is good Linux people need to be thinking about what the true difference is.Apr 27 10:48
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oiaohmAsk most attackers why they leave Linux alone its the fear of not knowing if selinux smack.... is enabled or not.Apr 27 10:48
oiaohmAnd how its going to respond.Apr 27 10:49
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schestowitzCorruption: Politicians Defer To Time Warner Lobbyists Who Wrote The Bill They're Pushing < >Apr 27 10:50
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schestowitzThis Is Ironic: Reporter Cites Bogus WSJ Stats To Claim Bloggers Are Untrustworthy < >Apr 27 10:51
oiaohmschestowitz: a Lot are being acused of a MS bent because they are not covering why Linux has pushed against trend.Apr 27 10:51
schestowitzThis suggests that Sun bought mysql /years/ back :-) 27 10:52
schestowitzoiaohm: yesApr 27 10:52
schestowitzKool-AidApr 27 10:52
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schestowitzSwine flu fears close schools in NY, Texas, Calif. < >. You'd think it's a third world problem, wouldn't you?Apr 27 10:53
oiaohmReason Linux pushed against virus trend is so simple.   Thing the windows reporters don't get is that Linux systems are attacked a lot.Apr 27 10:53
oiaohmI find Swine flu outbreak interesting.Apr 27 10:54
oiaohmDrug that they said will work against it in the past did not work against Swine flu class of viruses.Apr 27 10:54
oiaohmDrug what is used against bird flu classes of viruses.Apr 27 10:55
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, many servers run LinuxApr 27 10:55
schestowitzAnd attempts to attack them existApr 27 10:56
schestowitzoiaohm: there's some theory that these are deliberate testsApr 27 10:56
schestowitz[of flu]Apr 27 10:56
oiaohmSimptoms are bird flu.Apr 27 10:57
oiaohmI am more suspect it a out break of bird flu given a different name.Apr 27 10:57
schestowitzMotive...?Apr 27 10:58
oiaohmMotive hide that containment has failed.Apr 27 10:58
schestowitzMicrosoft in a wedgie: Can XP save Windows 7? < >Apr 27 10:59
oiaohmAnd spreed method is unknown.Apr 27 10:59
oiaohmAfter all the money spent destroying bird flu containment failure would be a huge embaracement.Apr 27 10:59
oiaohmRemember pigs are a extream close releation to us in a lot of cell contruction ways.  Right down to have the same blood types.  Most illness we can get they can.Apr 27 11:00
schestowitzLinux is well ARMed: First Android netbook to cost about $250 < > Apr 27 11:01
oiaohmNopApr 27 11:01
oiaohmXP virtualised is going to perform like dog.Apr 27 11:02
schestowitzSo we can infect the pigs. Poor them. We're such pigs.Apr 27 11:02
schestowitzoiaohm: that's daemonfc's claimApr 27 11:02
oiaohmLot of pig illnesses can infect us too.Apr 27 11:02
schestowitzIt drinks up RAM, don't forgetApr 27 11:02
schestowitzAnd I read yesterday about a guy whose "7" (beta) runs like a dog with 1.5 GB of RAM in aVMApr 27 11:03
schestowitzSounds like Vista.Apr 27 11:03
schestowitzAre we talking about Vista 7 or piugs now?Apr 27 11:03
schestowitzSame thing, thus confusing.Apr 27 11:03
oiaohmIts in Microsoft virtual pc schestowitzApr 27 11:03
oiaohmThat thing is not what you call fast.Apr 27 11:03
schestowitzWell, Microsoft bough^T^T^T^Tnnnovated itApr 27 11:04
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oiaohmYou really should follow that secuirty thing up with what happens if you run rm -rf as sudo on ubuntu.Apr 27 11:05
oiaohmIts on youtube.Apr 27 11:05
oiaohmMagic disappearing OS.Apr 27 11:05
oiaohmLinux distributions are not without there fault.Apr 27 11:05
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, I know the guy who made the videoApr 27 11:06
schestowitzWayne abandoned fsckingwlinuxApr 27 11:06
schestowitzI wonder what happenedApr 27 11:06
schestowitzThe last time I spoke to his he also got a gig t arstechnicaApr 27 11:06
schestowitzThen LinusJournal put him down by rejecting an article. Maybe unlike his dad he decided not to be a writer and concentrate on studying. WHo knows.........Apr 27 11:07
oiaohmI did it as a secuirty demostration once.Apr 27 11:07
oiaohmSome people made the bad mistake after it to think I was pro MS.Apr 27 11:07
schestowitz 27 11:07
schestowitzWow. No post in ALMOST a YEARApr 27 11:08
oiaohmUntil i followed up with the as system user windows self nuking.Apr 27 11:08
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schestowitz 27 11:08
oiaohmMake a dban image first load by the windows boot loader set auto run.Apr 27 11:09
oiaohmIs very effective at making windows go by by.Apr 27 11:09
oiaohmGets even more creactive put a fake windows loading screen on dban.Apr 27 11:10
oiaohmThey were really upset when the windows machine that was sitting jsut booting up for next demo was truly being blanked.Apr 27 11:10
oiaohmNext demo was restoring image from server.Apr 27 11:11
schestowitzGrab a screenshot , make it a wallpaper, empty desktopApr 27 11:11
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oiaohmLinux is just more truthful to how weak it is.Apr 27 11:12
oiaohmFast boot times are important.Apr 27 11:13
schestowitzIndia, Sierra Leone place OLPC orders < >. Does it run Fedora?Apr 27 11:13
oiaohmSo machine is not sitting there being blanked and people just walking past not noticing.Apr 27 11:13
oiaohmolpc can run Linux or windows.Apr 27 11:14
oiaohmI mostly use blanking a PC to demostrate how invisable an attack can be.Apr 27 11:15
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oiaohmWish I had 9 machines so I could set up hack norts and crosses.Apr 27 11:17
schestowitzReleased and already down: 27 11:20
schestowitzoiaohm: use 9 coinsApr 27 11:21
schestowitzCheaper...Apr 27 11:21
oiaohmThe video of it.Apr 27 11:22
schestowitzEdwards brings back memories from 2008 (dwelling on the past) and citing a MS shill tooApr 27 11:22
oiaohmWindows Solarias AIX Apple ... Yes try to put a diffeerent OS on each.Apr 27 11:22
oiaohmAnd have them all nuked by the end of game.Apr 27 11:22
schestowitz 27 11:23
schestowitzoiaohm: I forgot the algo for never losing this gameApr 27 11:24
schestowitz 27 11:26
oiaohmI know the algo for never using at nots and crosses.Apr 27 11:27
oiaohmThe problem with a domination game is you don't know exactly what machine you cracked into.Apr 27 11:27
oiaohmTo place you pice so its not much use.Apr 27 11:27
oiaohmIt is what makes the game more fun the randomness bit schestowitzApr 27 11:29
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schestowitzGames are for suckersApr 27 11:39
schestowitzThey are destructive a lot of the timeApr 27 11:39
schestowitzSwine flu: Twitter's power to misinform < >Apr 27 11:40
oiaohmIt makes demos more fun.Apr 27 11:40
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schestowitzI need to go for a whileApr 27 11:43
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nickshello schestowitzApr 27 12:56
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*roy__ is now known as logger_botApr 27 13:03
logger_botYo!Apr 27 13:04
logger_botBeen away for w hileApr 27 13:04
logger_botAt work ATMApr 27 13:04
*logger_bot is royApr 27 13:04
*logger_bot uses GNOMEApr 27 13:04
logger_botuptime 3 monthsApr 27 13:05
logger_bottestApr 27 13:08
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Ap0G33hey I use opensuse for more than 1 year and now I and thinking to move to another another distro..Apr 27 13:10
Ap0G33so wich is the best one?Apr 27 13:11
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ras0irAp0G33: i can suggest arch linux and pardusApr 27 13:20
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nicksarch linux is goodApr 27 13:24
nicksas well UbuntuApr 27 13:24
nicksbut my personal winner is FedoraApr 27 13:24
Omar87schestowitz: My collegue downloaded and tried Vista 7. Despite yapping childishly about "Amazing" it is, he also claims that when he downloaded it (for free), he got a message telling him he can use this version until 2011, or something. What do you think?Apr 27 13:27
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schestowitzOmar87: yes, it self-destructsApr 27 14:08
schestowitzI've got to go again. It rainy and ugly today. Time for some exercise :-SApr 27 14:09
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trmancoCyber Secure Institute on the Conficker Controversy: 27 16:01
trmanco"Any analysis of the true impact of Conficker must also factor in the (wasted) time, resources, and energies of the cyber-community, governments, companies and individuals.  Extrapolating out from studies on the average cost of similar past attacks, the total economic cost of this worm (including the cost of efforts to combat the worm, the cost of purchasing counter-measure software) could be as high as $9.1 billion"Apr 27 16:03
trmancomaybe microsoft should pay this value with it's Q1 profitsApr 27 16:04
MinceRindeedApr 27 16:10
MinceRactually, regardless of its profitsApr 27 16:10
MinceRanyway, this is a tiny fraction of the damage they've caused so farApr 27 16:10
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trmancoreally tiny fraction :-PApr 27 16:12
trmancoRTFApr 27 16:12
schestowitzWikipedia Threatens Artists for Fair Use < >Apr 27 16:14
schestowitzMinceR: I saw a Windows crash todayApr 27 16:15
schestowitzWindows XPApr 27 16:15
schestowitzCollagues boxApr 27 16:15
MinceRnot such a rare eventApr 27 16:15
schestowitzIt's pathetic. Needed a rebootApr 27 16:15
schestowitzMinceR: I know, he was not surprised, eitherApr 27 16:15
schestowitzFor me it's not considered unless there's a power failure (no UPS)Apr 27 16:16
schestowitzMinceR: the mouse and things just frozeApr 27 16:16
schestowitzReading PDFs --> too muchApr 27 16:16
schestowitzI guess migrating to BetaVista7 won't resolve thisApr 27 16:16
schestowitzNeedless to say, that was wasted valuable timeApr 27 16:17
schestowitzMultiple by 700 million users or something like that (x recurrence)Apr 27 16:17
schestowitzIt's like saying, "one in 1000 flights will end up with a crash. We just take that for granted and into consideration when assessing cost." A better solution is to improve planes, inspection, systems, etc.Apr 27 16:18
trmancook, but a crash isn't that bad is it?Apr 27 16:20
schestowitzMcCain: Japanese Hanged For Waterboarding < >. So is it McCain's turn now?Apr 27 16:20
schestowitzUnited States of Hypocrisy -- but only by the Bush regimeApr 27 16:21
trmancoI wasted almost 30 minutes to get a usable desktop today at school :|Apr 27 16:21
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schestowitzConficker infected critical hospital equipment, expert says < >. Hospitals should not run Windows.Apr 27 16:22
trmancoimagine what I've could of done during those precious 30 minutes --programmingApr 27 16:23
schestowitzIs the Government Acting Like a Payday Lender? < >. Had the US stopped its military spendings ($1000bn/year) 10 years ago), it could be in decent shape financially.Apr 27 16:23
trmanco30 minutes just to get windows started and all the stuff I need to work with is just to muchApr 27 16:23
schestowitztrmanco: think of terms of time's worthApr 27 16:23
schestowitzUnless you enjoy those 30 minsApr 27 16:23
schestowitzThere's time like sleep whose value is differentApr 27 16:24
*Eruaran ( has joined #boycottnovellApr 27 16:24
trmancoyeah, that's even worse, for big companiesApr 27 16:24
schestowitzBut if it proves to be an ordeal, why accept it?Apr 27 16:24
schestowitztrmanco: big companies think of people like animals in a chicken coop?Apr 27 16:24
schestowitzDeliver computer (cage space), give light (testosterone-filled 'food'), extract sweat and mearApr 27 16:25
schestowitzSome companies are more like meat markets than othersApr 27 16:25
schestowitzIt's interesting how in certain companies people in the workers community wanted to take control of operationApr 27 16:25
schestowitzLike the older days in millsApr 27 16:25
schestowitzIt's similar to what mysql founder do to Sun/oracle nowApr 27 16:26
schestowitzThey have the skills, they have the code; they can do it their own wayApr 27 16:26
trmancodrizzle already does it it's own wayApr 27 16:26
schestowitzGPL is a decentralising force that empowers more owners. Copyleft = leave me along, I can have copy of my own hard workApr 27 16:27
schestowitztrmanco: but Drizzle is a Sun projectApr 27 16:27
schestowitzNow Oracle I presumeApr 27 16:27
trmancoit is?Apr 27 16:27
schestowitzMariaDBApr 27 16:27
schestowitzAnd 2 moreApr 27 16:27
trmancoit's a mysql forkApr 27 16:27
schestowitztrmanco: I think it's more like a light branchApr 27 16:27
schestowitzThat's what they made it for anywayApr 27 16:27
schestowitzTroubling Court Ruling: Company Not Allowed To Resell Radar Detectors Online < >Apr 27 16:28
trmancoyeah something like thatApr 27 16:28
schestowitzMore corruption in Europe at the moment. It's about MAFIAA, not artists. (EU Parliament passes copyright term extension, rejects proposal to give the addition funds to artists)Apr 27 16:28
schestowitzEU votes for longer music copyright < > This is a travesy. Now they have 20 years to let another generation grow and fool the next one (90 years?Apr 27 16:30
schestowitzThe 8,000 Year Copyright? < >. The zombierightApr 27 16:31
schestowitzYou own your work even after insects devour youApr 27 16:31
schestowitzNAB gets five more to oppose tax < >Apr 27 16:32
schestowitzSlightly older corruption:  Pirate Bay judge's links to copyright lobby exposed  < >Apr 27 16:35
schestowitzRIAA appoints crooked judges tooApr 27 16:35
schestowitzTime to wrap a giant diaper around the crotch of the Statue of Liberty. She's taking  a piss at justice a couple of centuries later Apr 27 16:36
schestowitzSecurity hole compromises OAuth providers < >Apr 27 16:38
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trmancoXP SP3 Doesn't Play Nice with Heavy I/O Operations on NTFS Volumes: 27 16:46
schestowitzAnother semi-criminal company goes circling down the toilet: "Medialink Worldwide, the largest producer of fake news products such as video news releases (VNRs) and audio news releases (ANRs), has reported that on April 20 it was notified by the Nasdaq Stock Market that shareholder equity in the company at the end of December 2008 was only $2,181,000 when the minimum requirement for listing on the sApr 27 16:47
schestowitzchange was $2,500,000."Apr 27 16:47
schestowitzSpeaking of NTFS, I've just come across this one about btrfs: 27 16:48
trmanco 27 16:49
trmancocorruption is winningApr 27 16:49
schestowitz"Researchers studying tobacco documents have found that liquor companies are terrified of going down the same route as the tobacco industry." It would be very interesting if alcoholic drinks are required to have "harms your liver" noticesApr 27 16:50
*magentar (n=magentar@ has joined #boycottnovellApr 27 16:50
schestowitzThanks for the TPB linkApr 27 16:51
schestowitzOne thing we can do is spread links to people about RIAA-free zones and torrents that are not RIAA-affectedApr 27 16:51
schestowitzDry their business out the legit wayApr 27 16:52
schestowitzAnother issue is educating people are labels and have them 'publish' the artists who go there by not touching their output, Then, artists will ditch the lavelsApr 27 16:52
schestowitz*labelsApr 27 16:52
schestowitz /are/about/Apr 27 16:53
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schestowitz[mysqlBased on the headline this seemed like a troll article, but is makes valid points: 27 16:55
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schestowitzWatch our civil liberties pulling away: ( to spend €£2bn on ISP tracking)Apr 27 16:58
schestowitzUK government candidacy: give Brits' medical data to an American company with a lockin model: 27 16:59
schestowitzMore Android (Linux) handsets arriving: 27 17:00
schestowitzAnother dead product/service at Microsoft Corp.: 27 17:01
schestowitzThe Inquirer is still dying. Publication rate is down by about 50%.Apr 27 17:05
trmancoMicrosoft ditches Live Search product upload tool: 27 17:07
schestowitzHulu only streams this in the US :-( : the brilliance of Colbert; the corruption of Congress < >Apr 27 17:09
schestowitztrmanco: yes, posted a moment agoApr 27 17:09
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trmancookApr 27 17:09
schestowitzI will write about it in BN later ;-)Apr 27 17:09
schestowitzI enjoy it when services at MS just dieApr 27 17:09
schestowitzFor years I've watch them just announce and announceApr 27 17:09
schestowitz(and running very low on cash)Apr 27 17:09
schestowitzWhen Microsoft gives up on Zune and surrenders Mac fans will rejoice in publicApr 27 17:10
schestowitz"A disc that can store 500 gigabytes (GB) of data, equivalent to 100 DVDs, has been unveiled by General Electric." 27 17:11
schestowitzTrolls have been infesting BN in recent days... the usual suspects, but not as many as last yearApr 27 17:13
schestowitz 27 17:13
schestowitzCell Phones and Hostage Situations < >Apr 27 17:14
schestowitzSchneier has seemed suspicious to some, recenmtly esp.Apr 27 17:14
schestowitzHe also works with BTApr 27 17:14
schestowitzThey deploy Phorm/Websense, which is illegal spywareApr 27 17:15
schestowitzThe EU took legal actionApr 27 17:15
schestowitzGovernment(ish) vs government.Apr 27 17:15
schestowitzSurveillance on the Web, essentially.Apr 27 17:15
schestowitzI wonder what exactly he does at Bt for $20mil/year, IIRCApr 27 17:15
*mib_m9pyql (i=5b791b60@gateway/web/ajax/ has joined #boycottnovellApr 27 17:16
schestowitzSent to me some hours ago re: Schneier: "assimilated [...] Haven't had to make that accusation yet.  Though he is taking an inexcusably soft position on the software... Fedora or Ubuntu work out of the box for 99% of users' needs.  A competent IT dept (should there be one left) can over time fill out the rest."Apr 27 17:16
schestowitzI doubt Schneier shills.Apr 27 17:16
*NeonFloss ( has joined #boycottnovellApr 27 17:17
schestowitzNow Conficker attacks again, proving Schneier wrong.Apr 27 17:17
*mib_m9pyql has quit (Client Quit)Apr 27 17:17
schestowitz"I kind of figured at the time that the hype was the result of a feight.  It's happened that way before: hype, wait for the overreaction to die  down and then hit."Apr 27 17:17
schestowitzTwo more enthusiastic new reviews of Ubuntu 9.04: Mandriva will be out shortly, as wellApr 27 17:22 is growing more agile and 3.1 is near: 27 17:25
schestowitzsjvn is calling Vista7 "Vista Lite" (well, you can put a pig on a diet, but it's still a DRMd pig) Apr 27 17:27
schestowitzwayne from Quit writing?Apr 27 17:31
*sigfile ( has joined #boycottnovellApr 27 17:32
schestowitzWhat Oracle gets with MySQL < > "In MySQL, Oracle bought much more than open-source street credibility. "Apr 27 17:32
schestowitzI doubt Oracle needs FOSS much. It just used it as a platform for the most part.Apr 27 17:33
sigfileschestowitz: MySQL is yet another example of how legacy software can still have momentum with the right marketing pitch towards business heads and not the actual IT or programers that use itApr 27 17:34
schestowitzYesApr 27 17:35
schestowitzI use mysql extensivelyApr 27 17:35
schestowitzIt never betrays meApr 27 17:35
schestowitzBut I never used a commerical DB as adminApr 27 17:35
schestowitzSo I lack basis for comparison when it comes to tools available like profiling.Apr 27 17:35
sigfileschestowitz: its just I chatted with other's that claim that MySQL has a lot of redundancies in its programming grammar that it shouldn't need.Apr 27 17:37
schestowitzI used Oracle many years ago, but at prompt level onlyApr 27 17:37
schestowitzsigfile: are you in touch with the projectApr 27 17:37
sigfileschestowitz: isn't a lot of Oracle software programmed in Java?Apr 27 17:37
schestowitzThe marketing VP spoke to OStaticApr 27 17:37
sigfileschestowitz: nopeApr 27 17:37
schestowitzAnd mysql said something to Microsoft Shrill Gavin Clarke, or maybe he just wrote about itApr 27 17:38
schestowitzsigfile: yes, oralce uses JavaApr 27 17:38
schestowitzWhat is SleepyCat built on?Apr 27 17:38
sigfileschestowitz: sorry but you are asking the wrong guy :PApr 27 17:38
schestowitz6bn for Java is too muchApr 27 17:39
schestowitzThey don't need to 'buy' "open source cred", eitherApr 27 17:39
schestowitzThey have more control over Web-oriented rival nowApr 27 17:39
schestowitzRamp for selling upgrades to closed DBsApr 27 17:39
schestowitzHere's an optionApr 27 17:40
schestowitzDigg uses mysqlApr 27 17:40
schestowitzLike many other sitesApr 27 17:40
sigfileschestowitz: I didn't know thatApr 27 17:40
schestowitzRather than offer mysql services for scaling Oracle could try to pass them to pricey blobsApr 27 17:40
schestowitz"smoothly"Apr 27 17:40
schestowitzMore and more sites that grow use mysqlApr 27 17:40
schestowitzLow-hanging fruit for OracleApr 27 17:40
schestowitzVersus Sun/mysql, even MSApr 27 17:40
sigfileschestowitz: perhaps, but wouldn't that just permit cheaper or other free open source competition more headroom?Apr 27 17:40
schestowitzAlthough MS is a lost causeApr 27 17:41
schestowitzvery few sites use IIS/.NETApr 27 17:41
schestowitzAnd MS declines on the Web.Apr 27 17:41
schestowitzsigfile: more headroom heading to expensive offerApr 27 17:41
schestowitzLike the 'free' (gratis) Oracle offeringsApr 27 17:41
sigfileschestowitz: I thought MySQL's appeal was the fact that a large company that official technically supports it is behind it?Apr 27 17:41
sigfileschestowitz: even though I chatted with some which said if you tried to get MySQL tech support through Sun you would get in touch with some person in IT who happened to be an admin that just new as much about the language as anyone using it from the client sideApr 27 17:42
schestowitzYesApr 27 17:43
schestowitzBut there's a downside tooApr 27 17:43
schestowitzOracle will want money for itApr 27 17:43
schestowitzMySQL makes less money than Oracle's waresApr 27 17:43
schestowitzServices vs acquisitionApr 27 17:43
sigfileschestowitz: true but MySQL can be used as a gateway drug to Oracle's other more expensive servicesApr 27 17:43
sigfileschestowitz: its like how HP basically gives away printers knowing that most people would opt to pay hand over fist for new printer cartridges instead of filling their ownApr 27 17:44
schestowitzYesApr 27 17:45
schestowitzThat's not freedom thoughApr 27 17:45
schestowitzIt depends reallyApr 27 17:45
schestowitzHow will Oracle extract money?Apr 27 17:45
schestowitzNo tarballs?Apr 27 17:45
schestowitzNo RPMs?Apr 27 17:45
sigfileschestowitz: well, its freedom until a business wants "official" supportApr 27 17:45
schestowitzExtensions?Apr 27 17:45
schestowitzServices?Apr 27 17:46
sigfileschestowitz: basically servicesApr 27 17:46
schestowitzMigrations to their blobs?Apr 27 17:46
schestowitzServices are fineApr 27 17:46
schestowitzDepends what type alsoApr 27 17:46
schestowitzMySQL can break down sometimesApr 27 17:46
schestowitzOr it might not scale wellApr 27 17:46
schestowitzIt's free to spread aroundApr 27 17:46
sigfileschestowitz: maybe they will cap MySQL's capability, but then the problem is some disgruntled developer will create a more capability yet simplified offshootApr 27 17:47
schestowitzThen you have people coming to the door knocking and offering cash for assistanceApr 27 17:47
schestowitzLike singers+concerts as a business modelApr 27 17:47
schestowitzYou buy a guarantee to come to a concert and pay nothing for the music downloadsApr 27 17:47
schestowitz"No Doubt" tries this IIRCApr 27 17:47
schestowitzsigfile: I spoke to Mickos at the timeApr 27 17:48
schestowitzI argues against extensionsApr 27 17:48
schestowitzI think he's with Monty nowApr 27 17:48
schestowitzPlanning an escape routeApr 27 17:48
schestowitzKaj is still there in Sun AFAIKApr 27 17:48
schestowitzHe too was in the conversationApr 27 17:49
sigfileschestowitz: but if it was just about the cost PostreSQL, Shinx and others would have gained more users by nowApr 27 17:49
schestowitzIt came after I had warned WordPress in the main mailing list that supporting more database is advised. Then Sun's VP mailed meApr 27 17:49
sigfileschestowitz: Sphinx I meantApr 27 17:50
schestowitzsigfile: they have no massibe brand nameApr 27 17:50
schestowitzI never installed postgresApr 27 17:50
schestowitzLots of CMSs support just mysql as welllApr 27 17:50
sigfileschestowitz: exactly and when it comes to most major websites or any businesses establishing a website for that matter it is executives who call the shots and the IT folk who just have to be able to use whatever they chooseApr 27 17:50
sigfileschestowitz: those execs want a service that is official and to which they can call another person in a suite and tie in case for accountability reasons in case a problem arrises.Apr 27 17:51
sigfileschestowitz: then again I am not sure how Digg got to using that language except for its popularityApr 27 17:51
sigfileschestowitz: I think its also about reaching a standard because many businesses are under the impression that it is better to hire programmers specialized in one particular fieldApr 27 17:53
sigfilesort of an assembly line logicApr 27 17:54
schestowitzyes, accountabilityApr 27 17:54
schestowitzDo they get that from Oracle?Apr 27 17:54
schestowitzI think it's more to do with long-term existenceApr 27 17:54
sigfileschestowitz: probably more so then what I have heard about Sun Micro lolApr 27 17:55
schestowitzAlthough even with Solaris, who knows now...Apr 27 17:55
schestowitzsigfile: Digg+language? mysql is a DB.Apr 27 17:55
sigfileschestowitz: it seemed as though Sun just wanted to unload all their support for their software onto the community and just focus on producing hardwareApr 27 17:55
schestowitzSecond Life uses mysql tooApr 27 17:55
schestowitzMaybe the largest case of useApr 27 17:55
schestowitz20k Debian servers, IIRC. maybe 2000Apr 27 17:56
sigfileschestowitz: but now that may change since Sun is no longer ran by former hardware engineersApr 27 17:56
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schestowitzhehe: 27 17:58
schestowitzsigfile: there's no Sun nowApr 27 17:59
sigfileschestowitz: I don't if its just me but Sun Microsystems made many of the same mistakes Commodore Business Machines didApr 27 17:59
schestowitzThe management will be Ellison&GroupiesApr 27 17:59
sigfileschestowitz: there is still in product nameApr 27 17:59
schestowitzHe has two people fighting for inheritence of his seatApr 27 17:59
schestowitzyes, VPs and stuffApr 27 18:00
schestowitzI wonder what Phipps new title will be.Apr 27 18:00
schestowitzThere's another annoying one in a line in flame blogs against Linux: 27 18:01
schestowitz "Instead of complaining why don’t you use the features available to you and change it to one of the many different themes. Dumbass."Apr 27 18:03
schestowitzext4 pervades: Migrating to ext4 < >Apr 27 18:06
schestowitzEST not only promotes "open source" and slams RMS but now he attacks the GPL: 27 18:10
schestowitz*ESRApr 27 18:10
sigfileschestowitz: nice article, do you agree with its assessment on the current situation with GPL/GNU?Apr 27 18:18
schestowitz "This is not necessarily “breaking”, nor entirely “news”. Nevertheless, fact is that I am satisfied with Ubuntu 9.04 on my Acer TravelMate 5310, and I don’t plan to switch away from it in the foreseeable future."Apr 27 18:24
schestowitzsigfile: I haven't read it yetApr 27 18:24
schestowitzI won't cite ESR, eitherApr 27 18:24
sigfileschestowitz: I think GPL/GNU vs BSD/Apache/MIT is up to the developer/s to decide how they want to distribute their softwareApr 27 18:25
schestowitzBeranger is back with us! :-) :-)Apr 27 18:25
schestowitzPetoKraus: did you see Beranger's post?Apr 27 18:25
schestowitzsigfile: yes, up to developers, for sureApr 27 18:26
sigfileschestowitz: you think there is anything sinister behind the whole anti-Ubuntu push?Apr 27 18:31
schestowitzNopeApr 27 18:31
schestowitzJust jealousyApr 27 18:31
schestowitzOthers say Microsoft might cause thisApr 27 18:31
schestowitzBut distro wars are old news. It's anti-Linux (not anti-Ubuntu) that becomes problematicApr 27 18:31
schestowitzbrb showerApr 27 18:32
sigfilekApr 27 18:32
*sigfile has quit ()Apr 27 18:32
schestowitzMicrosoft's worst third quarter ever 27 18:48
schestowitzIt dawned upon me that Novell is becoming a huge liability if it turns Linux into another ReactOS(ish)Apr 27 19:03
schestowitzHere is a USian reviewer who dismisses an Australian review of Ubuntu because it's not USian "Now, the reviewer originally wrote the piece for the Australian version of ZDNet, and Linux has seemed more popular outside the United States. Maybe we have to take the initial impressions with a grain of Outback salt."Apr 27 19:08
schestowitz"IBM convinced 62 CIOs to rip and replace Unix systems in the quarter, and that Linux MIPS were up more than 50%." 27 19:09
schestowitzThe Inquirer used to do about 30 stories/day, now it's about 15. Register kept old pace, but it has gone bad.Apr 27 19:11
tessier_Linux MIPS?Apr 27 19:12
tessier_As in Linux on MIPS cpus?Apr 27 19:12
tessier_Interesting that IBM is still pushing Power.Apr 27 19:13
tessier_That is one of the few alternative CPU's going and pretty much the only other high-end CPU.Apr 27 19:13
tessier_If it weren't for IBM's brand and the engineering they put into every box it would be hard to justify the cost of a low volume cpu.Apr 27 19:14
schestowitztessier: yes, it's weird, isn't it? MIPS+IBMApr 27 19:16
tessier_ 27 19:16
tessier_People are still shaky over 9/11Apr 27 19:16
tessier_schestowitz: I thought MIPS was pretty much dead. Glad to see that it isn't.Apr 27 19:16
BalrogMIPS is widely used in embedded systemsApr 27 19:17
Balrogjust like Motorola 68KApr 27 19:17
Balrogit was well-known in pre-1995 macs, now it's only used in embedded systemsApr 27 19:17
trmancoI'm having some weird interferences here, I can tell because my speaker are making some kind of a scratching sound from time to timeApr 27 19:19
schestowitztessier: it isn't particularly interesting, I thinkApr 27 19:19
trmancodid the LHC go live?Apr 27 19:19
trmanco:-pApr 27 19:19
schestowitztessier: let the 9/11 conspiracy people talk.Apr 27 19:19
schestowitzJust met one at the gymApr 27 19:19
tessier_schestowitz: I'm not talking about conspiracy people. I'm talking about ordinary people who don't want to be caught in a building when a plane hits itApr 27 19:20
schestowitztrmanco: Scumron Collider is still downApr 27 19:20
schestowitztessier: well, many crashes...Apr 27 19:21
trmancowhy the word "Scumron"?Apr 27 19:21
schestowitzPlane tickets gone cheapApr 27 19:21
schestowitzI heard from a friend he got a ticket to Orlando for 150 quidApr 27 19:21
schestowitzUsed to be about 70 quidApr 27 19:21
schestowitzThe airlines go out of businessApr 27 19:21
schestowitzNo more price fixing =  cheaper maintenanceApr 27 19:21
schestowitz=High failures ratesApr 27 19:21
schestowitzThere were lots of crashes in recent months.Apr 27 19:21
schestowitz3 I can think ofApr 27 19:21
schestowitzAnd they still have their dynamic pricing scheme bagging to increase use and put enthusiastic travelers at the back of the plane first because it's shaky.Apr 27 19:22
schestowitzAll these plans for 'plane of the future' should be put on ice nowApr 27 19:22
tessier_The airlines are in a tough spot.Apr 27 19:23
schestowitzThere are more planes than people require even if flights go cheapApr 27 19:23
schestowitzLater this year when more airliners go bust you'll be able to pick up 747s ont he cheaApr 27 19:23
schestowitz*the cheapApr 27 19:23
schestowitztessier: this lowers service qualityApr 27 19:23
schestowitzNot flight attendant service but engineers who service planes and replace old partsApr 27 19:23
tessier_Although the economics of running an airline has nothing to do with the link I posted and the fact that people are still afraid.Apr 27 19:24
schestowitztessier: some of them probably think the government takes planes down :-)Apr 27 19:24
tessier_Conspiracy theories also have nothing to do with the link.Apr 27 19:24
schestowitzAndroid/ARM gets people talking: 27 19:25
schestowitztessier: I knowApr 27 19:25
schestowitzBut they will use itApr 27 19:25
tessier_It costs me $100/hr just to fly a 172 and $200/hr to fly a Duchess. Airline tickets are cheaper than ever.Apr 27 19:25
schestowitzAdding it to their journal of 'evidence'Apr 27 19:26
schestowitzPlanes are big polluters, tessier Apr 27 19:27
schestowitzI reckon you at least take the wife and friends while you're at itApr 27 19:27
tessier_Yes, they are. Going fast takes fuel.Apr 27 19:27
tessier_I try to as that makes the expense more manageable.Apr 27 19:27
PetoKrausschestowitz: which beranger's postApr 27 19:27
schestowitzNot just fast. High too. Well, keeping the air beneath the wings anywayApr 27 19:27
PetoKrausthat he's back to ubuntu?Apr 27 19:27
schestowitzPetoKraus: yesApr 27 19:27
schestowitzHe said he'd never come back to GNUApr 27 19:28
PetoKrausdoesnt surprise _me_Apr 27 19:28
schestowitzI told you he wouldApr 27 19:28
tessier_They could be a lot more efficient but there are a ton safet regulations which prevent them from adopting the latest technologies.Apr 27 19:28

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Links for the day
YouTube Progresses to the Next Level
YouTube is a ticking time bomb
Journalists and Human Rights Groups Back Julian Assange Ahead of Monday's Likely Very Final Decision
From the past 24 hours...
[Meme] George Washington and the Bill of Rights
Centuries have passed since the days of George Washington, but the principles are still the same
Daniel Pocock: "I've Gone to Some Lengths to Demonstrate How Corporate Bad Actors Have Used Amateur-hour Codes of Conduct to Push Volunteers Into Modern Slavery"
"As David explains, the Codes of Conduct should work the other way around to regulate the poor behavior of corporations who have been far too close to the Debian Suicide Cluster."
Video of Richard Stallman's Talk From Four Weeks Ago
2-hour video of Richard Stallman speaking less than a month ago
statCounter Says Twitter/X Share in Russia Fell From 23% to 2.3% in 3 Years
it seems like YouTube gained a lot
Journalist Who Won Awards for His Coverage of the Julian Assange Ordeals Excluded and Denied Access to Final Hearing
One can speculate about the true reason/s
Richard Stallman's Talk, Scheduled for Two Days Ago, Was Not Canceled But Really Delayed
American in Paris
3 More Weeks for Daniel Pocock's Campaign to Win a Seat in European Parliament Elections
Friday 3 weeks from now is polling day
Microsoft Should Have Been Fined and Sanctioned Over UEFI 'Lockout' (Locking GNU/Linux Out of New PCs)
Why did that not happen?
Gemini Links 16/05/2024: Microsoft Masks Layoffs With Return-to-office (RTO) Mandates, Cash Issues
Links for the day
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Thursday, May 16, 2024
IRC logs for Thursday, May 16, 2024
Ex-Red Hat CEO Paul Cormier Did Not Retire, He Just Left IBM/Red Hat a Month Ago (Ahead of Layoff Speculations)
Rather than retire he took a similar position at another company Made Its First 'Article' in Over and Month, It Was 10 Words in Total, and It's Not About Linux
play some 'webapp' and maybe get some digital 'certificate' for a meme like 'clown computing'