Bonum Certa Men Certa

Widespread Adoption of Wayland Would Mostly Benefit IBM, Which Has Become Increasingly Hostile Towards Software Freedom

Video download link | md5sum b5050651c89ba81b53d466010de6b384 Wayland Creating New Problems Creative Commons Attribution-No Derivative Works 4.0



Summary: Ryan wrote about his agonising experience with Wayland this month [1, 2]; 4 more of us weighed in and expressed similar scepticism/concerns over IBM's push to put Wayland in every distribution

TODAY'S and yesterday's posts from Ryan Farmer ("DaemonFC") included rants about Wayland. As he put it himself: "If Wayland still isn’t working right after 15 years, if it still behaves like some bugged, crummy, perpetual beta software, when will it work right?"



Wayland is explained in the video above, as it's a subject we never properly covered before, at least not in a dedicated (to Wayland) video.

Ryan's first article did not mention or barely noted that Wayland does not implement important features (X.org has had those features for over 20 years and many programs of longtime GNU/Linux users STRICTLY DEPEND on these features). To make matters worse, many program swill never adopt Wayland (no support to be expected ever from old or "legacy" software) and Wayland already wastes developers' and projects' time. Is it worth it?

"Ryan noted that APIs and ABI alike are being ignored/discarded in order to shoehorn Wayland."Does this sound familiar? It did happen before and it disrupts momentum. Who benefits here?

Ryan noted that APIs and ABI alike are being ignored/discarded in order to shoehorn Wayland. "They break both," he said. In his post he explains the consequences of that. "The golden rule about X11," he said in IRC, "is that whatever the client does is right as long as it's been part of the protocol at some actual revision. I think the Wayland people know this promise isn't actually fun to maintain, not touching core code, and so they don't consider themselves bound by it."

"It’s become a fixture," he said in his first post, "like an old refrigerator that never breaks down."

The two laptops I use at the moment have uptime of 200+ days with KWin and X11. This would not be possible with Wayland in its 2023 form. Wayland in 2023, at least with KDE Plasma, simply isn't ready. Based on those who put it to the test, if you do many advanced things (something beyond "GMail" and other "Web apps"), reboots will become necessary very often. A Wayland system is rarely a stable system.

"Based on those who put it to the test, if you do many advanced things (something beyond "GMail" and other "Web apps"), reboots will become necessary very often."Ryan notes that "Wayland can stop applications from reading input events from the other ones." But your windows are typically trusted, unless it's a "modern" Web browser, in which case untrusted programs get run on your machine and then some remote entity controls your machine. "I don’t have “Linux malware” because I haven’t installed any," Ryan said, but some time soon they want to control what you can and cannot install on your GNU/Linux PC/server (sigStore, which is being falsely painted as vendor-neutral by the Linux Foundation, has Google and Red Hat behind it).

"Apropos X11," one reader has noted, "Ryan's post is spot-on but some 10 years ago there was a lot of analysis of some design flaws in how keystrokes (or anything else) from one window can be captured by another. I can't remember the term for that flaw and will never find it. It got a little coverage and then all went quiet."

Over in IRC, jrmu said: "I'm on OpenBSD and recently there's been discussions of having adding a Wayland shim" though MinceR expressed hope that "maybe OpenBSD will keep X alive" because "waylandows is pointless".

"...your windows are typically trusted, unless it's a "modern" Web browser, in which case untrusted programs get run on your machine and then some remote entity controls your machine."He added that "the x.org maintainers don't understand x, so they started waylandows instead and it sucks because of that [...] then again, probably this whole industry of failure is finally coming apart at the seams. [...] they decided, as a "feature", that they will not support pointer grabbing or warping, so some programs become impossible on waylandows, for example, an FPS that doesn't cover _all_ of your screens will lose the mouse pointer and be unplayable [...] they decided, as another "feature", that no clients can read the screen, so screen sharing is impossible [and] they decided, as yet another "feature", that the official, beloved waylandows implementations can't do server side decorations, so window management is an unreliable, inconsistent mess under them [..] "security" is their excuse for everything even though proprietarydesktop software is many things, but secure is not one of them [...] another "feature" is that you must run cancerd [systemd] so you can run their official implementations and you probably already know how secure cancerd is [...] what ibm/proprietarydesktop/systemd cabal does is in direct opposition to the users' freedom and community, therefore it is proprietary [...] everything they do is focused on forcing users into a walled garden controlled by IBM, where they get to pay for a support contract with IBM for any hope of support, which they won't get because users don't matter to IBM anyway [...] waylandows, like cancerd, was designed around the demented ideas of a small group of people like [Lennart] Poettering [...] and they wield dependencies as a weapon against the Free software community [...] the license is open source, therefore it is open source, but as you can see on the above linked page, Free software is not defined in terms of license, so it's OSPS -- Open Source Proprietary Software" (we explained this in past years [1, 2, 3]).

"Wayland might give many people a negative first impression of GNU/Linux."As psydruid explained in IRC, "the license being libre is the Trojan horse in this case because it's hard to argue against software that is libre, right? But that's just a decoy to distract you from what it really is proprietary software with a thin layer of libre on top. If you can't study the code, can't understand the code, can't modify the code and it makes no sense to distribute modifications, what is the purpose of it being libre? They've been making use of this confusion among Free software enthusiasts for more than a decade. I only realised it in 2017 as things changed beyond the pulseaudio nuisance I had become aware of in 2011. I gladly use OpenBSD on some of my (older) systems, mainly those that aren't supported well by GNU/Linux distributions anymore, but I've also successfully run it on some of my more newer systems. I'm getting the idea that IBM would rather stand in the way of others than contribute anything at this point, which isn't very different from what Microsoft has been doing since its inception."

So those are the views of at least 5 people, whose experiences vary but whose conclusion is similar. My own views are expressed in the video. Wayland might give many people a negative first impression of GNU/Linux.

Just like Mozilla is trying to force everyone to use PulseAudio, it might soon try to force GNU/Linux users to adopt Wayland. Mozilla is a bad company which does not value users' freedom or or even choice. Mozilla's CEO, Baker, is "just a front for Google," one reader has remarked, "keeping Mozilla alive as long as Google needs it to remain alive but without it getting in the way ever."

Recent Techrights' Posts

Jean-Pierre Giraud, Possible Forgeries & Debian: elections, judgments, trademark already canceled, archaeologist
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Justices Jeremy Johnson and Victoria Sharp to Decide the Fate of Julian Assange in About Three Weeks
Will he be back home in Australia by year's end?
Treating Them as Teammates, Not as Political Props, Trophies, or Objects
Most of the world's people are women
Belarus: Bing Fell From 1.1% to 0.6% Since Microsoft Started the LLM Hype (Yandex is 50 Times Bigger Than Bing)
Now enter Belarus
Australia: Bing Lost Market Share Since the LLM Hype ("Bing Chat")
Google rose, Bing went down
[Meme] Canonical Has Basically Become Novell II
Today's Canonical...
 
OSI's Blog is Still 100% "AI" Nonsense Sponsored by Microsoft (the Authors Are Also Salaried by Microsoft)
The founder of the OSI no longer supports the OSI
Poland is Another Country Where Bing Lost a Lot of Market Share Since the LLM Gimmicks
down from 3.24% to 2.4%
It Took Microsoft More Than 3 Years to Get a Quarter of Windows Users to 'Upgrade' to Vista 11 (3 Out of 4 Windows Users Still Reject It)
That is exactly what's happening right now
[Meme] The Empire
Don't be like Putin
They Want 'Transparency' Only for the General Public (Every Bit of Communication Available to the Government, Usually Via Corporations)
The EU might decide to effectively ban SSH
Free Software Won't Fix Equality, But It Helps
Let's examine Free software in the context of: 1) money. 2) justice.
Links 19/06/2024: SFTP and Gopher Milestone
Links for the day
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, June 18, 2024
IRC logs for Tuesday, June 18, 2024
US Surgeon General's Advice on Social Control Media (and "Smart" Phones) Seems Reasonable
People forget what the real world is about
Quiet at Planet Debian
planet.debian.org has not had any updates since 5 days ago
Morale at Microsoft Sinks to New Lows
The annual 'Employee Signals' survey showed a drop from 69% to 62% in positive responses
Microsoft Windows is Being Abandoned in the UK, Relative to Other Platforms (New All-Time Lows)
Windows at new lows
Links 18/06/2024: More Executives Leave Microsoft, Attacks on the Press in Russia and 'Exile'
Links for the day
[Meme] Always Livecasting
Wait Till Systemd-Recall
Gemini Links 18/06/2024: Unconscious Consumption and Firewall Autoban
Links for the day
While Everyone is Furious at Vista 11 (Over TPM, Recall and Other Malicious 'Features') Canonical is Selling It to People
So the only thing Canonical says about Windows is that you should give it a try?
Links 18/06/2024: Adobe and Internet Archive in Trouble
Links for the day
Peter Duffy Explains SystemD
Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer!
[Meme] The Doyen and the Colonel
EPO continues to prioritise lawbreaking over knowledge
EPO Union Action: Next Week SUEPO The Hague and SUEPO Munich Talk About New Pension Scheme (NPS) and Salary Savings Plan (SSP)
So there are basically 32 days left for more people to intervene
[Meme] Wait Till Systemd-Recall
The only thing Linux still needs is a forensics backdoor
GNU/Linux Up This Month in India (or Why Famous Criminal Bill Gates Keeps Visiting Modi)
truth tends to catch up with people
Microsoft Poetterix is Work in Progress
Linux's New DRM Panic 'Blue Screen of Death' In Action
24/7 Work Discipline
it's not so much about how much (or how long) one works, it's about how one works and whether one feels comfortable doing it
Adamant Conformism is an Enemy of Science
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man"
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Monday, June 17, 2024
IRC logs for Monday, June 17, 2024
Links 18/06/2024: Further Mass Layoffs and Gemini Leftovers
Links for the day
At IBM, "Brownnosing is the Norm."
Many of these comments are from IBM insiders
Myanmar/Burma: Google Gains One Percent, Microsoft Loses One Percent Since the LLM Hype ('Bing Chat')
it's not hard to understand LLMs didn't replace real search and didn't replace Google, either
[Meme] KISS, not SAAS
Gemini Protocol turns 5 in exactly 2 days
Hostageware: The Threat of Clown Computing (or 'SaaS', Another Misnomer or Buzzword) to Computer Users Everywhere
This problem isn't limited to Free software adopters
Six on the Beach: After Losing Six Continents Microsoft is Losing Oceania Too
Based on the 6- or 7-continent view of the world
Links 17/06/2024: Mass Layoffs Accelerating in Tech, Concerns About Impact of the Net
Links for the day
Gemini Links 17/06/2024: Hyprland Analysed and No Use for Betrusted
Links for the day
Microsoft Can Never Make a Comeback Anymore, the Community is Shutting It Out
We're relying on the real community, not fake ones or coopted ones
The World is Becoming (or Has Already Become) Linux
An intercontinental success story
Georgia: Bing Share Fell by Half Since 'Bing Chat' (LLM Hype), Fell Behind Yandex As Well
Georgia's situation is interesting
[Meme] Community of People to be Exploited, Then Thrown Away, Left Behind or Even Slandered
Debian.org front page
Alexandre Oliva's FSF disposition
During my recent trip for LibrePlanet, I was fortunate to have, or at least start, long conversations with nearly everyone in FSF staff
[Meme] SPI and 'FSFE': Sponsored by Microsoft to...
women's instincts do not matter to these strongmen
One More (Failed) Attempt to Deplatform the Sites by Harassing and Threatening Webhosts
What we're seeing here is a person who abuses the system in Canada at Canadian taxpayers' expense trying to do the same in the UK, at British taxpayers' expense
[Meme] Shitburger of an LLM
IBM and the Hololens
Links 17/06/2024: Chatbot Nonsense Thrown Under the Bus (Severe Failure, Pure Hype), How to Finance Free Software 'Hackers'
Links for the day
Debian's Personal Attacks Are Upsetting Women, Too
Female Debian Developer: "I Believe Daniel [Pocock] is On the Right Track."
Microsoft's Bing is So Irrelevant in Moldova (1%) That Russia's Yandex is About 5 Times Bigger
How much longer before Microsoft throws in the towel?
12 Days Have Passed Since the Edward Brocklesby Revelations and Debian Project Has Said Absolutely Nothing About That
One must therefore assume they have nothing to say in their defence (covering up severe security failings)
Yes, You Can
Unless you live somewhere like Russia...
[Meme] Listen to the Experts
Bill Gates didn't even finish university]
Roy and Rianne's Righteously Royalty-free RSS Reader (R.R.R.R.R.R.) and the Front-End Interfaces
As the Web deteriorates the availability, quality and prevalence of RSS feeds is not improving, to put it mildly
Algeria Shows High GNU/Linux and Android Adoption, All-Time High and Almost Three-Quarters of Web Requests
GNU/Linux was below 3%, now it is above 3%
Mass Layoffs at Microsoft-owned GitHub (About 80 Percent of the Staff in India Laid Off)
It's not just in India
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Sunday, June 16, 2024
IRC logs for Sunday, June 16, 2024
Gemini Links 16/06/2024: Scarecrows, Moles, Ham Radio, and No IPs
Links for the day