The debian-private mailing list leak, part 1. Volunteers have complained about Blackmail. Lynchings. Character assassination. Defamation. Cyberbullying. Volunteers who gave many years of their lives are picked out at random for cruel social experiments. The former DPL's girlfriend Molly de Blanc is given volunteers to experiment on for her crazy talks. These volunteers never consented to be used like lab rats. We don't either. debian-private can no longer be a safe space for the cabal. Let these monsters have nowhere to hide. Volunteers are not disposable. We stand with the victims.

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Re: Deity project schedule problems



> > If you can't keep my role as VP seperate from my role as Deity manager
> > seperate, then you might as well do that.
> 
> Up until this morning, I thought you were managing Deity in your capacity
> as VP. I also thought you were issuing proposals to change the FTP
> organization as Guy Maor's manager, which looked awful strange considering
> that he had little to do with the proposals. So, if I have problems
> separating these roles, it's because I don't think they are separate.

I'm sorry, Bruce, but I tried over and over to make you understand that
I was doing Deity as an extra service, unrelated to VP, for Debian.


> > The only reason I'm doing the VP role anyway is because I want to help
> > the project.
> 
> I can't really say that you are helping the project. The main reason
> is that you still don't get the free software thing, which is the reason
> the project exists. It does not exist to make another Red Hat or Caldera,
> which is what you get if you ignore the free software issue. There is no
> reason for us to clone them - they do a fine job at being what they are.
> The second reason I think you are not helping is that you led us down the
> garden path with Deity, got us to commit to use it rather than to improve
> dselect, and now you are saying it's going to be delivered at some
> indeterminate date with no deadline, and that we have no say over that
> or any other aspect of its development. How are you helping?

Oh, I get it.  I understand it fine.  I just see a whole lot more potential
in it than you do.  I'm not asking that anyone abandon the free software
concept.  All I've ever tried to do was to make Debian something that was
more than just a hacker or sysadmin can make use of.  I don't want to
sell the thing for money.  I want everybody to be able to use it without
cost.  But currently, only hackers and sysadmins can use it.

I recently installed Win95 and Debian on 5 machines (a sixth is awaiting a
new CD-Rom) and let me tell you...  Debian sucks when comparing installation.
We have over 150 config files we have to manage under Debian.  Now, once
it's all organized, it's much more powerful and even easier is most repects,
but that doesn't matter.

If you want to keep it a hacker system, then fine.  You do that.  But there
is no reason why it can't be both a hacker system and a user system.


> > So, do you want control over the final tool or control over the original
> > development of it?
> 
> I want to have confidence that the project will be done when we need
> it, and that it will address our needs.  If we don't have that
> confidence, we will not use it as our primary package manager. We will
> start working on an alternative to Deity right away. It will still be
> free software, though, and you will still be welcome to make it an
> optional package in Debian.

Oh, come off it.  When has Debian ever had something done on a schedule?
It will be done once it gets done and nobody can promise anything better.
At least, they can't promise it and be sure they can keep it.  Deity will
do what it has to and it will do it well.  You can say that we're not
trustworthy or not able if it makes you feel more righteous.  None of that
really means anything and I don't have time to play politics.


> The Debian developers and I trusted you to manage Deity, and even
> let you run roughshod over the project's philosophy of open-ness because
> you thought you could only get it done that way. Now we're sorry. You have
> let us down.

<shaking head>  Say what you want.  Believe what you want.  We've never
been secretive.  We've been trying to keep noise down.  Nobody was ever
rebuffed or told that no, we didn't want to hear it.  We were completely
open in what we were trying to do and how we wanted to do it.

I'm sorry too.  I'm sorry that you have to personally control everything.
It makes my participation here a living hell.

I don't have time to spar with you any more Bruce.  I have work to do.
You can go ahead and get the last work in if it makes you feel any better
(which I'm sure it will).  I'm officially out of this conversation.

                                          Brian
                                 ( bcwhite@verisim.com )

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