04.01.09

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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 31st, 2009 – Part 3

Posted in IRC Logs at 4:14 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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schestowitz Microsoft says another story Mar 31 14:14
oiaohm Time line don’t line up for that coping direction. Mar 31 14:14
schestowitz It invested everything Mar 31 14:14
schestowitz *invented (Freudian) Mar 31 14:14
schestowitz Wait, I’ll get you the memos! :-) Mar 31 14:15
oiaohm Yes DaemonFC there are memos even it back up that you have it backwards. Mar 31 14:15
DaemonFC well, it’s bad design Mar 31 14:15
DaemonFC and who copied who is not really the point Mar 31 14:15
zer0c00l conflicker attack graph its awesome http://www.caida.org/research/securi… Mar 31 14:15
DaemonFC but I believe they copied Vista Mar 31 14:16
schestowitz Here, DaemonFC, read this MS e-mail: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0… Mar 31 14:16
DaemonFC those can come from anywhere Mar 31 14:16
oiaohm KDE 4 had the design first. Mar 31 14:16
schestowitz “From; Vic Gundotra Mar 31 14:16
schestowitz Sent; Wednesday, 3une 30, 2004 8:29 AM Mar 31 14:16
schestowitz To: Jim Allchin; Brian Valentine; Will Poole; Joe Peterson Mar 31 14:16
schestowitz Cc; Sanjay Pathasarathy; Chrles Fitzgerald Mar 31 14:16
schestowitz Subject: RE: tiger Mar 31 14:16
schestowitz Steve is trying hard to retain the developers he has left. Mar 31 14:16
schestowitz He showed “spotlight” functionality embedded in 4 different apps, then highlighted that developers can build (and should build) the same functionality in their apps, Mar 31 14:16
schestowitz I have SDK – will send to Quentin Mar 31 14:16
schestowitz They even showed a bit of extensibility in their design. Mar 31 14:16
schestowitz I don’t have details, but at first blush, I think they will be there 80% on developer platform too. Mar 31 14:16
schestowitz ° Their Avalon competitor (core video, core image) was hot – lots of transparency, ripple effects, etc Mar 31 14:16
schestowitz ̄° I have the coot widgets (dashboard) running on my Mac right now with all the effects he showed on stage. I’ve had no crashes in 5 hours.” Mar 31 14:16
oiaohm MS managed to get it consuted first Mar 31 14:16
oiaohm First to market people like thinking of as the inventor of stuff. Mar 31 14:17
oiaohm Even when its not true. Mar 31 14:17
schestowitz What’s for Google to gain here ->  Google to invest $100 million in start-ups < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/5… > Mar 31 14:17
oiaohm Advertisement schestowitz Mar 31 14:18
schestowitz For 100m? Mar 31 14:18
oiaohm Of both forms. Mar 31 14:18
oiaohm Ie start ups need advertisement like everyone else. Mar 31 14:18
schestowitz Maybe make those businesses ‘client states’ of Google Mar 31 14:18
schestowitz Like colonies.. Mar 31 14:18
oiaohm So they can sell there products. Mar 31 14:18
oiaohm Sneeky way of self building ad income. Mar 31 14:18
schestowitz Nvidia has unleashed a monster (see pic): http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/… Mar 31 14:20
oiaohm Not the muli OS bit. Mar 31 14:23
schestowitz he toll of GNU/Linux? “Sun Confirms 1500 Jobs Cut This Week” < http://www.pcworld.com/article/162225/sun_c… > Mar 31 14:23
oiaohm not/note Mar 31 14:23
schestowitz NVidia cards are used in clusters… on Linux Mar 31 14:23
schestowitz In studios, NASA, etc. Mar 31 14:23
schestowitz Windows ain’t reliable for that stuff. Mar 31 14:24
schestowitz Imagine having your NASA cluster sneeze up a Conficker when you do important simulations. Mar 31 14:24
oiaohm Hmm sun ibm merge must be moving forward. Mar 31 14:24
oiaohm Sun just sacked all the staff that would not be important after a merge. Mar 31 14:25
schestowitz GNU/Linux users to laugh all the way to their PCs tomorrow. Conficker: Getting the Last Laugh < http://www.pcworld.com/article/162241/c… > Mar 31 14:25
schestowitz oiaohm: which divisions? Mar 31 14:25
oiaohm 25 percent to 50 percent of Sun’s customer-facing staff.  << That division Mar 31 14:26
oiaohm why would ibm and sun when merge need a double up of sales people. Mar 31 14:26
schestowitz I see… Mar 31 14:27
schestowitz China Closes More Porn Web Sites in Crackdown < http://www.pcworld.com/article/162… > Mar 31 14:27
DaemonFC “No updates would be accepted by Conficker unless they are signed by the Conficker author’s private encryption key.” Mar 31 14:28
DaemonFC rofl Mar 31 14:28
oiaohm By saying it was planed in advance avoids unfair dismissel clams. Mar 31 14:28
schestowitz Sun is still important, mostly because of OOo and Java. Mar 31 14:28
DaemonFC that way they can’t get it to disinfect itself Mar 31 14:28
DaemonFC using its update feature Mar 31 14:28
DaemonFC clever Mar 31 14:28
oiaohm private encryption key can be colided with large enough procesisng power. Mar 31 14:29
schestowitz FOSS to Microsoft: get offa me[sic] cloud: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/… Mar 31 14:29
oiaohm Problem is Linux guys are about the only people with that DaemonFC Mar 31 14:29
oiaohm So unlikely to save MS people without money. Mar 31 14:30
DaemonFC There’s a new security option in Linux 2.6.29-git3 and later Mar 31 14:30
DaemonFC to protect against stack smashing attacks Mar 31 14:30
oiaohm Yep I know. Mar 31 14:30
oiaohm There is also a new security frame work in 2.6.30 Mar 31 14:31
DaemonFC I have the stack protector enabled Mar 31 14:31
oiaohm Linux kernel is always upgrading it secuirty. Mar 31 14:31
DaemonFC SELinux and Apparmor are just stupid though Mar 31 14:32
oiaohm So you like SMACK Mar 31 14:32
oiaohm Thinking Apparmor is not offically in the main kernel. Mar 31 14:32
twitter The death of Encarta is getting a lot of attention from newspapers. Mar 31 14:33
oiaohm DaemonFC:  What is the idea behind SELinux and SMACK? Mar 31 14:33
twitter This seems to be more than the usual M$ love.  There’s a lot of fear too. Mar 31 14:34
twitter http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/… Mar 31 14:34
DaemonFC to replace the simple functional UNIX security model with asinine and complex rules Mar 31 14:34
MinceR oiaohm: don’t ask him such difficult questions, you’ll confuse him :> Mar 31 14:34
DaemonFC which break legitimate applications Mar 31 14:34
oiaohm Nicely wrong. Mar 31 14:34
DaemonFC and cause users to gnash teeth and tear out their hair Mar 31 14:34
oiaohm also wrong. Mar 31 14:34
twitter ” In January, Wikipedia got 97 percent of the visits that Web surfers in the United States made to online encyclopedias, according to the Internet ratings service Hitwise. Encarta was second, with 1.27 percent. Unlike Wikipedia, where volunteer editors quickly update popular entries, Encarta can be embarrassingly outdated.” Mar 31 14:35
oiaohm Number one to be highest rated UNIX you needed something like selinux with its kinds of protecton. Mar 31 14:35
schestowitz twitter: they go lightweight Mar 31 14:35
DaemonFC total overkill for any desktop user Mar 31 14:35
schestowitz Less divisions, less employees Mar 31 14:35
DaemonFC SELinux is jsut ridiculous Mar 31 14:35
oiaohm DaemonFC: Mar 31 14:35
oiaohm     * Login or register to post comments Mar 31 14:35
oiaohm     * Share Mar 31 14:35
oiaohm Security Mar 31 14:35
oiaohm By Corbet – January 26, 2009 – 12:14pm Mar 31 14:36
oiaohm Security is a difficult and complicated problem, which must be addressed at several levels. The technologies discussed in this page are mainly concerned with mandatory access control – the hardening of the system so that no component of that system may go beyond its permitted capabilities. The largest value of MAC schemes is often seen when a system component is compromised as a result of an internal bug. If the MAC system has been set up Mar 31 14:36
oiaohm properly, the compromised application should not enable the attacker to take control of the system as a whole. It is claimed that SELinux has already mitigated some vulnerabilities in this manner. Mar 31 14:36
oiaohm Equally important, of course, is maintaining the integrity of the kernel itself. As the recent vmsplice() vulnerability showed, that can be a hard thing to do – we are trying to maintain a large and complex code body while being faced with capable and motivated attackers. Upcoming kernels are likely to reflect an increased interest in the use of technical means to avoid vulnerabilities – buffer overrun detection and the like. But there is no Mar 31 14:36
DaemonFC you have to castrate it to the point of ineffectiveness Mar 31 14:36
oiaohm substitute for old-fashioned code auditing and review. Mar 31 14:36
oiaohm Contents Mar 31 14:36
DaemonFC to get it to not malfunction so much Mar 31 14:36
oiaohm     * 1 AppArmor Mar 31 14:36
oiaohm     * 2 SMACK Mar 31 14:36
oiaohm     * 3 TOMOYO Linux Mar 31 14:36
oiaohm     * 4 TALPA Mar 31 14:36
oiaohm     * 5 Credential records Mar 31 14:36
oiaohm     * 6 Integrity measurement Mar 31 14:36
DaemonFC I won’t use those Mar 31 14:36
oiaohm AppArmor Mar 31 14:36
oiaohm AppArmor is a mandatory access control mechanism acquired (and open-sourced) by Novell. Like SELinux, AppArmor controls the behavior of programs with the idea of containing any potential security breaches within those programs. AppArmor differs from SELinux, however, in that it addresses a smaller set of potential threats and is intended to be much simpler to administer. Mar 31 14:36
DaemonFC they’re ridiculous Mar 31 14:36
*oiaohm has quit (Excess Flood) Mar 31 14:36
DaemonFC and AppArmor is easy to hack around Mar 31 14:36
schestowitz AppArmor is dead almost Mar 31 14:36
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schestowitz Novell fired the devs Mar 31 14:36
DaemonFC they list a number of ways to do it in the Ubuntu FAQ Mar 31 14:36
oiaohm TOMYOYO SMACK and Selinux are manditory access controols Mar 31 14:37
schestowitz The founder of AppArmor was snatched by Novell’s ally Mar 31 14:37
twitter This is amazing, “Bill Gates bought Corbis, and Encarta had access to all these images that Wikipedia could never get,” he said. “Right now, that is a big weakness of Wikipedia -– the material has to be free.” Mar 31 14:37
DaemonFC Tomoyo is mostly documented in Japanese Mar 31 14:37
oiaohm Normal Unix are DAC Mar 31 14:37
DaemonFC and SELinux breaks shit Mar 31 14:37
DaemonFC unless you castrate it Mar 31 14:37
oiaohm What is the difference betwean MAC and DAC Mar 31 14:37
twitter They just got their ass kicked by tons of free material and people call that a weakness? Mar 31 14:37
oiaohm Its key to understand DaemonFC Mar 31 14:37
DaemonFC the normal user root user concept Mar 31 14:37
DaemonFC which works Mar 31 14:37
schestowitz twitter: didn’t Gate found Corbis? Mar 31 14:37
DaemonFC MAC is stupid for desktop users Mar 31 14:38
schestowitz Am I missing something here? Mar 31 14:38
DaemonFC and unreasonable Mar 31 14:38
oiaohm root user does nto work. Mar 31 14:38
oiaohm Problem is services. Mar 31 14:38
oiaohm MAC main job is protecting them. Mar 31 14:38
DaemonFC MAC is heavy, stupid, and problematic Mar 31 14:38
DaemonFC not suitable for a desktop Mar 31 14:38
twitter Not sure. Mar 31 14:38
oiaohm A service with root power really does not need to access everything. Mar 31 14:38
oiaohm It is suitable for a desktop. Mar 31 14:38
schestowitz twitter: here is my take on the death of Microsoft’s Wikipedia ‘rival’: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03… Mar 31 14:38
oiaohm Most of your back ground servers DaemonFC Mar 31 14:38
oiaohm That are running all the time. Mar 31 14:39
twitter http://features.csmonitor.com/conn…   “Goodbye, Encarta. A cautionary tale for newspapers?” Mar 31 14:39
DaemonFC SELinux is never appropriate for a desktop Mar 31 14:39
DaemonFC yes, those are SERVERS Mar 31 14:39
DaemonFC not DESKTOPS Mar 31 14:39
oiaohm services. Mar 31 14:39
oiaohm Running behind your desktop. Mar 31 14:39
oiaohm Like your printer server. Mar 31 14:39
DaemonFC I read that out of the corner of my eye Mar 31 14:39
DaemonFC yes Mar 31 14:39
oiaohm Does it need to be able to acess everything. Mar 31 14:39
oiaohm It has a place on desktop in background. Mar 31 14:39
DaemonFC but there’s no use for SELinux on a desktop Mar 31 14:39
oiaohm Doing what it designed to do. Mar 31 14:40
DaemonFC it causes way more harm than it is worth Mar 31 14:40
oiaohm Really not. Mar 31 14:40
oiaohm If you turn on strict yes. Mar 31 14:40
DaemonFC it gets pissed off when you run things in Wine Mar 31 14:40
oiaohm Nop Mar 31 14:40
DaemonFC even when you use the targeted policy Mar 31 14:40
DaemonFC best to shut it off Mar 31 14:40
oiaohm I run selinux here all the time. Mar 31 14:40
MinceR it only needs to be preconfigured properly by the distro maintainers. Mar 31 14:40
oiaohm No wine problems. Mar 31 14:40
oiaohm I have selinux set to target all the services running in background. Mar 31 14:40
DaemonFC SELinux as configured by Fedora ruins a desktop system Mar 31 14:40
oiaohm And anything running as root. Mar 31 14:40
DaemonFC you have to install it with selinux=0 Mar 31 14:41
oiaohm Fedora is crap. Mar 31 14:41
schestowitz Don’t people want to keep THEIR mail on THEIR PCs? Gmail Labs Goes International < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2… > Mar 31 14:41
oiaohm truely Fedora is crap. Mar 31 14:41
oiaohm It gets lots of proto type stuff that don’t work. Mar 31 14:41
oiaohm Including prototype selinux rules. Mar 31 14:41
DaemonFC otherwise you get AVC denials for Tomboy notes, anything you run in Wine, Nautilus Mar 31 14:41
DaemonFC …… Mar 31 14:41
DaemonFC SELinux is some STUPID shit Mar 31 14:41
DaemonFC seriously Mar 31 14:41
oiaohm Anyone using fedora is a crash dumby. Mar 31 14:41
twitter CSM takes a lot of time to smear Wikipedia with the usual BS. Mar 31 14:41
oiaohm Every used Selinux on a debian based system DaemonFC Mar 31 14:42
schestowitz MinceR: Why online privacy is no ‘luxury’: YouTube to Collect Real-Name Data in South Korea < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/200… > Mar 31 14:42
qdev tell that to linus torvalds, oiaohm Mar 31 14:42
MinceR DaemonFC: repeat it 234 more times and i’m sure we’ll all be convinced. Mar 31 14:42
oiaohm Set in permissive mode ie only effecting services. Mar 31 14:42
DaemonFC no, I removed it from my kernel Mar 31 14:42
twitter I keep all of my email in the same archive.  Gmail lets you use pop and other normal protocols. Mar 31 14:42
DaemonFC the module isn’t even built Mar 31 14:42
DaemonFC good riddance Mar 31 14:42
schestowitz twitter: they still hold the mail Mar 31 14:42
schestowitz ISP+Google Mar 31 14:42
schestowitz That’s two tiers Mar 31 14:42
oiaohm So you don’t run a MAC at all DaemonFC Mar 31 14:42
DaemonFC SELinux is masturbation Mar 31 14:42
schestowitz And I’m not sure if Gmail does PGP Mar 31 14:42
schestowitz If it did, then it would have the keys too, i.e. no privacy Mar 31 14:43
oiaohm If you don’t want SElinux you should run like Smack or equal. Mar 31 14:43
MinceR DaemonFC: what you’re doing now is masturbation Mar 31 14:43
twitter http://online.wsj.com/article/… Mar 31 14:43
DaemonFC MAC is a bad idea Mar 31 14:43
DaemonFC for desktops Mar 31 14:43
DaemonFC it makes no sense Mar 31 14:43
DaemonFC it is a tin foil hat Mar 31 14:43
qdev mac is a bad idea at it’s root Mar 31 14:43
oiaohm Because all you are doing is leaving all you users weak to attacks from any borked service. Mar 31 14:43
DaemonFC not really Mar 31 14:44
schestowitz MURDOCHsoft lock out GNU/Linux users: MySpace, Microsoft Announce Two New Deals < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/… > Mar 31 14:44
oiaohm That is using root Mar 31 14:44
twitter none of these articles makes the leap, Wikipedia:Encarta and GNU/Linux:Windows Mar 31 14:44
DaemonFC don’t run services that leave open ports to the internet? Mar 31 14:44
DaemonFC like gee, shit, I don’t know Mar 31 14:44
oiaohm No need to Mar 31 14:44
DaemonFC a desktop Mar 31 14:44
twitter My ISP keeps all of my email too. Mar 31 14:44
DaemonFC damn Mar 31 14:44
qdev so you’re tracked twice Mar 31 14:44
oiaohm Look more closely at the services you are running DaemonFC Mar 31 14:44
oiaohm Some are outside connecting. Mar 31 14:45
DaemonFC if I was running a server, I would bother with pulling teeth Mar 31 14:45
twitter the only way I could avoid people keeping my email would be to run a mail server myself and only accept encrypted connections. Mar 31 14:45
schestowitz “Computer experts are warning that the Conficker virus could strike infected computers on 1 April 2009.” http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/… Mar 31 14:45
twitter My ISP won’t let me do that. Mar 31 14:45
oiaohm So open ports is not a requirement to attack box DaemonFC Mar 31 14:45
schestowitz MSBBC wasting space on Windows-specific problems and offering Q&As Mar 31 14:45
oiaohm Most common is bind for dns look ups. Mar 31 14:45
twitter So, I might as well use gmail too. Mar 31 14:45
twitter My ISP’s mail service is not reliable. Mar 31 14:45
DaemonFC whatever Mar 31 14:45
DaemonFC SELinux won’t stop anything Mar 31 14:45
oiaohm It does. Mar 31 14:45
DaemonFC not in the way you have to set it up to leave a working system Mar 31 14:46
oiaohm If you brake bind and it protected. Mar 31 14:46
twitter I can’t turn off their filters and the stupid thing blocked lots of important mail last month. Mar 31 14:46
oiaohm only bind is distored. Mar 31 14:46
oiaohm That is wrong selinux permissive mode DaemonFC Mar 31 14:46
oiaohm anything without rules define does not have rules appled. Mar 31 14:46
DaemonFC SELinux Permissive doesn’t stop things, it only bitches Mar 31 14:46
oiaohm That is permissive mode. Mar 31 14:46
oiaohm It does stop things in well setup systems. Mar 31 14:47
twitter Without network freedom, you don’t have software freedom. Mar 31 14:47
DaemonFC right, enforce won’t stop things either Mar 31 14:47
DaemonFC it makes it harder Mar 31 14:47
DaemonFC for you Mar 31 14:47
oiaohm Because all services have have one. Mar 31 14:47
DaemonFC to use your system Mar 31 14:47
oiaohm Not really never used graphic selinux configuration tools. Mar 31 14:47
schestowitz Another major Fail for DRM, this time in computer games, not just music: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/techn… Mar 31 14:47
oiaohm Sounds like a person who dumbly tryed to configure it by text files. Mar 31 14:47
oiaohm Without learning modes or anything else. Mar 31 14:48
DaemonFC I don’t have any need for it Mar 31 14:48
oiaohm Its no harder than setting up zonealarm and any other learning firewall. Mar 31 14:48
DaemonFC why would I piss around with all that? Mar 31 14:48
oiaohm If you want to configure it from scratch. Mar 31 14:48
oiaohm If not used provided templates. Mar 31 14:48
DaemonFC if I wanted it, I would have built it into the kernel Mar 31 14:48
DaemonFC :) Mar 31 14:49
oiaohm From distributions that know how to make them. Mar 31 14:49
oiaohm Ie never fedora. Mar 31 14:49
DaemonFC meh Mar 31 14:49
DaemonFC it’s easier to turn it off Mar 31 14:49
oiaohm Centos Debain both do good jobs of them. Mar 31 14:49
DaemonFC or just leave it out of the kernel Mar 31 14:49
oiaohm Really no effort. Mar 31 14:49
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oiaohm They are just installed works and you forget about them. Mar 31 14:50
DaemonFC Everyone I’ve ever seen use SELinux feels the way I do Mar 31 14:50
DaemonFC it’s a pile of shit Mar 31 14:50
DaemonFC just turn it off and be happy Mar 31 14:50
oiaohm Except me. Mar 31 14:50
DaemonFC :P Mar 31 14:50
oiaohm Problem is I have used it without graphical tools. Mar 31 14:50
oiaohm And with. Mar 31 14:50
oiaohm Without graphical tools it crap. Mar 31 14:50
oiaohm Too hard to manage. Mar 31 14:50
DaemonFC Fedora provides graphical setup tools Mar 31 14:50
DaemonFC and troubleshooting tools Mar 31 14:50
oiaohm Fedoras tools are crap. Mar 31 14:51
oiaohm They are patched and unstable. Mar 31 14:51
oiaohm Basically playing with selinux never do it on fedora. Mar 31 14:51
DaemonFC they’re an inelegant work around to try and put lipstick on the SELinux pig Mar 31 14:51
DaemonFC ;;) Mar 31 14:51
oiaohm Debian Centos Mar 31 14:51
oiaohm It basically works without effort. Mar 31 14:52
oiaohm The tools for both work. Mar 31 14:52
DaemonFC CentOS is Red Hat crap rebranded Mar 31 14:52
DaemonFC Debian is eww Mar 31 14:52
oiaohm Different maintainers. Mar 31 14:52
oiaohm Make a stack of difference. Mar 31 14:52
DaemonFC well, you can’t very well be 100% compatible if you change things Mar 31 14:52
oiaohm Even Ubuntu has good base selinux rules. Mar 31 14:52
DaemonFC so CentOS is practically Red Hat Mar 31 14:52
DaemonFC Ubuntu doesn’t use SELinux Mar 31 14:52
DaemonFC it uses AppArmor Mar 31 14:52
oiaohm But lack good configation tols. Mar 31 14:53
schestowitz BTW: Stay away from MonoDevelop and spread the word. TomTom shows why: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/… Mar 31 14:53
oiaohm Ubuntu has option of switching to SELinux. Mar 31 14:53
DaemonFC yeah, they decided against it Mar 31 14:53
oiaohm AppArmor is default but you can change between 3 mode. Mar 31 14:53
DaemonFC mostly for the reasons I laid out Mar 31 14:53
oiaohm AppArmor is techically flawed. Mar 31 14:54
oiaohm So its completely worthless. Mar 31 14:54
DaemonFC why do you think I don’t bother building my own CrappArmor module Mar 31 14:54
oiaohm Its the joke of secuirty moudles. Mar 31 14:54
DaemonFC for my kernels Mar 31 14:54
oiaohm smack is lot simpler than selinux to use Mar 31 14:54
oiaohm Yet is solid. Mar 31 14:54
DaemonFC anything that fucks with the file system is bad Mar 31 14:55
oiaohm TOMOYO does not fuck with file system Mar 31 14:55
oiaohm And is also techincally solid in 2.6.30 Mar 31 14:55
DaemonFC anything that labels the filesystem has a good chance of messing things up Mar 31 14:55
oiaohm TOMOYO does not. Mar 31 14:56
DaemonFC and label based MAC controls slow down file operations Mar 31 14:56
DaemonFC considerably Mar 31 14:56
DaemonFC there’s just so much BAD that MAC does Mar 31 14:56
oiaohm You would have noticed a reduction in that in 2.6.29 Mar 31 14:56
DaemonFC and so few good Mar 31 14:56
oiaohm If you had build with selinux and smack. Mar 31 14:57
oiaohm Problem was not exactly reading form the filesystem. Mar 31 14:57
oiaohm It was many more memory operations to get answers. Mar 31 14:57
schestowitz Asay is up with more BS… defending Microsoft’s lies. there is no “Open Cloud Manifesto’s anti-Microsoft bias” See http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0… , also about odf… how they fool the CNET|CBS sheeple Mar 31 14:57
DaemonFC if I was really anal about security I’d just go join the masturbating monkeys at OpenBSD ;) Mar 31 14:57
oiaohm Do you know the limittions of DAC Mar 31 14:58
DaemonFC saying you’re worried about security then using proprietary drivers and firmware blobs is really pointless Mar 31 14:58
oiaohm Exactly why Long term my system will have very few of them. Mar 31 14:59
DaemonFC Das Machine is nicht fur gefingerpoken und mittengrabben. Ist easy schnappen der springenwerk, blowenfusen und poppencorken mit spitzensparken. Ist nicht fur gewerken by das dummkopfen. Das rubbernecken sightseeren musten keepen das cotten-pickenen hands in das pockets – relaxen und watchen das blinkenlights. Mar 31 14:59
oiaohm No insulting in german. Mar 31 15:00
oiaohm Thinking I read german insults perfectly. Mar 31 15:00
oiaohm Thinking I am 1/4 german. Mar 31 15:00
DaemonFC heh Mar 31 15:00
*ToreadorVampire has read a number of articles on the boycottnovell website over the last year or so (mostly linked to me by MinceR in another network I hang out on) – one thing I always wish about it: if it used a less alarmist tone … Mar 31 15:00
MinceR ToreadorVampire: the house is on fire Mar 31 15:01
DaemonFC wake up the house is on fire Mar 31 15:01
DaemonFC and the cat’s caught in the dryer Mar 31 15:01
DaemonFC ;) Mar 31 15:01
MinceR our society has let m$ & co. run unchecked for decades Mar 31 15:01
schestowitz ToreadorVampire: I was told this before Mar 31 15:01
schestowitz It’s not deliberate Mar 31 15:01
schestowitz It’s more to do with anger than ‘alarmism’ Mar 31 15:02
DaemonFC MinceR: Because they sell stuff abroad Mar 31 15:02
DaemonFC and rake in money Mar 31 15:02
DaemonFC and buy politicians Mar 31 15:02
DaemonFC don’t you know how stuff works? :) Mar 31 15:02
ToreadorVampire Things like:  calling monodevelop “poisonware factory 2.0″ – it makes it seem that the site is resorting to baseless name-calling, when I presume that there is a real message in there Mar 31 15:02
MinceR the most prominent religion on earth is money. Mar 31 15:02
DaemonFC meh, Christians, money Mar 31 15:02
schestowitz ToreadorVampire: yes, it’s a strong word Mar 31 15:02
DaemonFC what’s the difference? Mar 31 15:02
schestowitz [H]omer made it up Mar 31 15:02
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schestowitz Poisonware – free but patent encumberedd Mar 31 15:02
MinceR DaemonFC: money is useful for something Mar 31 15:02
schestowitz A trap basically Mar 31 15:03
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DaemonFC The highest suicide rates in America are in the most Christian areas Mar 31 15:03
ToreadorVampire I have to wade through the “crap speak” to find the actual information that helps me make an informed decision about what I want to do Mar 31 15:03
schestowitz MinceR: the US was built on religion Mar 31 15:03
DaemonFC I wonder if that’s them or the people that have to deal with their shit Mar 31 15:03
DaemonFC :) Mar 31 15:03
schestowitz And it’s in the money too Mar 31 15:03
MinceR indeed Mar 31 15:03
schestowitz The country was built by people waving the Holy Book Mar 31 15:03
schestowitz Lesser known fact BTW Mar 31 15:03
DaemonFC and murdering the natives Mar 31 15:03
DaemonFC even though their book says Don’t Kill Mar 31 15:03
schestowitz Yes Mar 31 15:03
schestowitz You beat me to it Mar 31 15:04
DaemonFC and raping them, because women are objects Mar 31 15:04
DaemonFC not people Mar 31 15:04
schestowitz The religion justified killing the natives Mar 31 15:04
DaemonFC only men have rights Mar 31 15:04
schestowitz Genoccide for God Mar 31 15:04
DaemonFC :P Mar 31 15:04
schestowitz Really? Mar 31 15:04
schestowitz They raped Indian women? Mar 31 15:04
schestowitz That would be new to me Mar 31 15:04
DaemonFC I’ve always said that if men could get pregnant, there’s be a 24-hour abortion clinic on every block Mar 31 15:04
MinceR according to Richard Dawkins, the bible has several stories where the Good Guys offer their women for raping Mar 31 15:05
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection) Mar 31 15:06
DaemonFC The bible is an illogical fallacy Mar 31 15:06
schestowitz http://open.salon.com/blog/greg_t… “Mostly a rape followed by a quickie jump over the broomstick, is my guess.Rape of women is part of war.” Mar 31 15:06
DaemonFC self-contradicting Mar 31 15:06
DaemonFC poorly written Mar 31 15:06
DaemonFC with more lies cover to cover than Acts of Congress Mar 31 15:06
DaemonFC B-) Mar 31 15:06
schestowitz Bible is Lible Mar 31 15:06
schestowitz Very genocidal Mar 31 15:07
schestowitz And some people would say that it was “written by God” Mar 31 15:07
schestowitz Or in ‘his’ spirit Mar 31 15:07
schestowitz So they can basically write anything they want and then say “because God said so” Mar 31 15:08
schestowitz I should write my “Linux bible” Mar 31 15:08
schestowitz In the spirit of God” Mar 31 15:08
MinceR there’s no need to Mar 31 15:08
MinceR the facts are on our side. Mar 31 15:08
schestowitz 10 commandments: “1. All your Conflicker-capable machines shelt be abolished…” Mar 31 15:08
*devq (n=gt5@ns.km22853.keymachine.de) has joined #boycottnovell Mar 31 15:08
schestowitz Then we’ll go around with long lightening sticks and claim to be fulfilling the will of Ignucius.. Mar 31 15:09
schestowitz *shalt Mar 31 15:09
DaemonFC I was touched by his noodly appendage Mar 31 15:10
DaemonFC I’ve found that if I use preemptible RCU, realtime kernel, and Dynamic Ticks disabled and HZ=1000, then timer-based Pulseaudio works fine Mar 31 15:11
schestowitz TomTom – “Settled, But Not Over Yet” says SFLC < http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s…  > Mar 31 15:11
DaemonFC I won’t be buying a TomTom Mar 31 15:12
MinceR me neither, as long as they pay m$ Mar 31 15:12
DaemonFC I bought a Garmin Mar 31 15:12
DaemonFC they run GNOME and Linux Mar 31 15:12
DaemonFC well, parts of GNOME anyway Mar 31 15:12
MinceR GPE? Mar 31 15:12
DaemonFC mmhm Mar 31 15:12
DaemonFC and they give back their source diffs as the GPL requires Mar 31 15:13
DaemonFC so they seem fairly Linux friendly Mar 31 15:13
schestowitz Another major setback for SCO: http://www.groklaw.net/article.ph… Mar 31 15:13
DaemonFC SCO? Mar 31 15:14
schestowitz Yes Mar 31 15:14
DaemonFC What the hell? Mar 31 15:14
schestowitz Not MicroSCOft Mar 31 15:14
DaemonFC do they STILL exist? Mar 31 15:14
DaemonFC they were delisted last year!!!! Mar 31 15:14
schestowitz In their suitors embodiment maybe Mar 31 15:14
schestowitz Well, in Groklaw they still exist Mar 31 15:14
schestowitz It’s the raison detre of the site, ain’t it? Mar 31 15:14
DaemonFC I noticed they had their yearly meeting in Las Vegas Mar 31 15:15
DaemonFC nothing like liquidating company assets on a hooker/cocaine/gambling/drinking binge Mar 31 15:15
schestowitz This is so ghey: http://news.softpedia.com/news/S… Mar 31 15:17
schestowitz They give no credit to RMS _at all_ Mar 31 15:17
DaemonFC RMS is a kook Mar 31 15:18
DaemonFC if coughing up a kernel is so easy, where is HURD/ Mar 31 15:18
DaemonFC right….thought so Mar 31 15:18
schestowitz EU issues warning on Internet user rights < http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2… > Mar 31 15:18
schestowitz DaemonFC: it’s not just engineering Mar 31 15:19
MinceR DaemonFC: if writing a unix userspace is so easy, why don’t you do it? Mar 31 15:19
schestowitz The foundations too, including public support and licence Mar 31 15:19
DaemonFC the user space is not really that much compared to the kernel Mar 31 15:19
DaemonFC and GNU is not the only userspace Linux could use Mar 31 15:19
schestowitz Why not? Mar 31 15:19
schestowitz GNU =15% of Debian Mar 31 15:19
schestowitz Linux= about 3% Mar 31 15:19
DaemonFC they had the entire GNU userspace before 1990! Mar 31 15:19
DaemonFC and they STILL have no kernel Mar 31 15:19
DaemonFC you tell me which is harder Mar 31 15:20
schestowitz They did it last Mar 31 15:20
schestowitz It was planned Mar 31 15:20
DaemonFC right Mar 31 15:20
schestowitz This is not an issue of practice Mar 31 15:20
DaemonFC 25 years Mar 31 15:20
schestowitz Hey, BSD had a kernel Mar 31 15:20
DaemonFC and it’s still not done Mar 31 15:20
schestowitz More than one really Mar 31 15:20
schestowitz And GNU was gonna do it right Mar 31 15:20
DaemonFC so will my great grandkids be enjoying GNU HURD 1.0? Mar 31 15:20
schestowitz Whether or not performance would be good in a m-kernel is another q Mar 31 15:20
schestowitz DaemonFC: it’s a matter of competitoon Mar 31 15:20
MinceR DaemonFC: have you ever bothered to check what kind of kernel they’re aiming for? Mar 31 15:20
schestowitz There was a GPL-licesed kernel already Mar 31 15:21
DaemonFC HURD is ridiculous Mar 31 15:21
schestowitz So RMS achieved his goal Mar 31 15:21
DaemonFC and will be broken because it came from GNU Mar 31 15:21
MinceR DaemonFC: go on, keep ranting on about stuff you know nothing about Mar 31 15:21
schestowitz The fact that it eas then labeled Linux as a WHOLE is another Mar 31 15:21
DaemonFC if it ever is released Mar 31 15:21
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