| tessier_ | http://www.law.com/jsp/legaltechnol... | Jun 04 00:12 |
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| tessier_ | You folks seen that? It's on /. right now too. | Jun 04 00:12 |
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| tessier_ | Could be a new avenue of fud. | Jun 04 00:12 |
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| schestowitz | tessier, PJ saw that earlier | Jun 04 02:21 |
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| schestowitz | I posted it in BN too. It seems like FUD indeed and I saw something similar last week. | Jun 04 02:21 |
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| dsmith_ | I had a n interesting conversation today with our CFO, I asked him which is better. "Spending money on software licenses and training, or just spending money on software training" He said, "..training of course." I followed with, "then why did you push for everyone to use Office 2007 when we were already using 2003 and just starting to use OO. Talk about a deer in head lights look. | Jun 04 02:44 |
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| schestowitz | Maybe he pullled a Newham. :-) | Jun 04 03:01 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft seems to have just hired a new top shil... I mean, gun. | Jun 04 03:02 |
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| schestowitz | Some legal czar as they call it. | Jun 04 03:02 |
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| dsmith_ | http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquire... | Jun 04 03:06 |
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| schestowitz | Haha. Yes, that's the one. Steele is under a lot of heavy fire at the moment. He's like a Microsoft insider among CIOs. Cheerleader in suit. | Jun 04 03:17 |
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| dsmith_ | damnit, Lenovo changed thier wbsite | Jun 04 03:22 |
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| dsmith_ | the link I posted the otherday about obtaining DOS laptops? They are showing ONLY suse now | Jun 04 03:22 |
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| schestowitz | SUSE is worse than nothing at all. It forces you to pay Microsoft. | Jun 04 03:26 |
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| dsmith_ | yep workstations only, not on thinkpads | Jun 04 03:26 |
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| hassanibraheem | schestowitz: I was just checking my feed reader, and seen the list of LUGRadio speakers | Jun 04 03:27 |
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| dsmith_ | I am going to call someone I know tomorrow about this | Jun 04 03:27 |
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| hassanibraheem | schestowitz: http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=1191 | Jun 04 03:27 |
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| hassanibraheem | schestowitz: Steve Lamb (Microsoft) - Green IT | Jun 04 03:27 |
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| hassanibraheem | schestowitz: it gets funnier however :D http://blogs.technet.com/steve... | Jun 04 03:28 |
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| schestowitz | This 'outreach' is often part of the Hilfism. They try to make it harder for Linux users to resent them and then they get closer to serve Microsoft's agenda (e.g. MOON in Blender). | Jun 04 03:30 |
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| dsmith_ | Found this on a forum. Re: thinkpad dos license gone? "I just talked to a lenovo rep asking him about the dos o/s option and he told me it was an error" | Jun 04 03:30 |
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| dsmith_ | an error? | Jun 04 03:30 |
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| schestowitz | Interesting. This is something to write about. Dell too use to 'blame' the configurator. | Jun 04 03:31 |
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| schestowitz | used | Jun 04 03:31 |
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| hassanibraheem | dsmith_: DOS ? I dunno about lenovo, but doesn't OEMs prefer FreeDOS ? | Jun 04 03:32 |
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| schestowitz | These things rarely just 'break'. They get tweaked. | Jun 04 03:32 |
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| dsmith_ | apparently not Lenovo | Jun 04 03:32 |
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| dsmith_ | its been changed | Jun 04 03:32 |
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| dsmith_ | website developers wont make a "mistake" gimmie a break | Jun 04 03:32 |
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| dsmith_ | hassanibraheem: when you type in linux on Lenovo's search feature it directs you to suse only laptops | Jun 04 03:33 |
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| dsmith_ | well I wont be buying a lenvo now, unless they change it back | Jun 04 03:35 |
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| dsmith_ | roy: here is a forum write up about it | Jun 04 03:36 |
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| dsmith_ | http://forum.notebookreview.com/s... | Jun 04 03:36 |
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| fumanchu2175 | What a shame that Lenovo will only give you Suse | Jun 04 03:40 |
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| fumanchu2175 | They are gone in my book. | Jun 04 03:40 |
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| dsmith_ | I'm upset now I was going to buy one in a few days | Jun 04 03:42 |
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| fumanchu2175 | Can you get it with another distro or with no OS | Jun 04 03:42 |
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| dsmith_ | suse, xp, vista | Jun 04 03:45 |
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| dsmith_ | thats it | Jun 04 03:45 |
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| dsmith_ | what a farce... | Jun 04 03:45 |
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| schestowitz | Lenovo used to certify for Fedora, Ubuntu, SUSE. | Jun 04 03:47 |
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| schestowitz | The IBM links doesn't help. In face, many Microsoft partners pick Microsoft Linux... errr, I mean SUSE Linux. | Jun 04 03:47 |
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| dsmith_ | well with the ultrabay 2nd drive option I will more then likely get one and promptly wipe SUSE | Jun 04 03:53 |
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| schestowitz | The man's avatar (in the forum above) is very telling. He's not happy. | Jun 04 03:56 |
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| dsmith_ | lol | Jun 04 03:57 |
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| schestowitz | I have a quick question to ask you. How do you suggest IRC logs get published. Might there be suitable as just archives on the side? Maybe blog posts with "read more" buttons? | Jun 04 03:57 |
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| schestowitz | (assuming we wish to make them public at all. IRC is not private to begin with) | Jun 04 03:58 |
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| dsmith_ | standard text I supose> | Jun 04 03:58 |
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| dsmith_ | damn same thing with PC Connection | Jun 04 03:59 |
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| dsmith_ | oh well I will make aphone call tomorrow | Jun 04 03:59 |
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| schestowitz | I'll just wait before posting anything about it then. | Jun 04 03:59 |
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| schestowitz | The danger from the start has been that the Xandroses and Suses will sidelines free distros, in which case you must always pay Microsoft via OEMs and they get to set the price (patents). | Jun 04 04:00 |
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| dsmith_ | all machines, desktop/laptops should only be installed with DOS only | Jun 04 04:02 |
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| dsmith_ | at least then ppl will learn something | Jun 04 04:02 |
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| schestowitz | You know, I've just come to realise something. | Jun 04 04:02 |
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| schestowitz | In Asia at the moment, many new Linux laptops are introduced. | Jun 04 04:03 |
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| schestowitz | Now... if Microsoft can put Xandros and SUSE (with Mono and Windows-like menus), then it can: 1) keep people addicted to Windows UIs; 2) Assert patents. | Jun 04 04:03 |
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| schestowitz | Re: preinstalls, France is working on this, but the likes of Microsoft can harp about 'options' and choice (SUSE, as in, you can choose between white and vanilla white, as long as you pay us) | Jun 04 04:05 |
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| dsmith_ | bah windows UI is stupid | Jun 04 04:07 |
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| dsmith_ | but I digress | Jun 04 04:07 |
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| dsmith_ | bbl | Jun 04 04:07 |
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| jbh | the problem with SUSE being offered by Dell/Lenovo (and others?) as the only Linux option is that if you buy SUSE you feed the devil(s), if you don't buy with SUSE you give the impression that no one is interested in Linux on their hardware | Jun 04 04:53 |
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| jbh | so they give up on Linux | Jun 04 04:53 |
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| jbh | it's a catch-22 | Jun 04 04:54 |
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| schestowitz | Hey, jbh | Jun 04 05:07 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, that's the problem. It's the same when the OEMs sell GNU/Linux for a higher price (sometimes the case with Dell and Asus in AU). | Jun 04 05:08 |
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| schestowitz | It's a self-fulfilling prophecy that enables them to claim no Linux demand. People would rather dual-boot for a lower cost than single-boot (just Linux). | Jun 04 05:09 |
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| schestowitz | Welcome, santhosh, baijum. | Jun 04 06:45 |
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| santhosh | hi schestowitz | Jun 04 06:45 |
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| baijum | Hi schestowitz | Jun 04 07:09 |
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| schestowitz | It now appears as though Microsoft's proxy fighter wants Yang out. (WSJ says so) | Jun 04 07:40 |
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| schestowitz | Ichan and Ballmer make a good match. Oh, and Kempin (former OEM VP at Microsoft) who was arrested for shooting and killing 4 antelopes. | Jun 04 07:41 |
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| schestowitz | Icahn, I meant. | Jun 04 07:41 |
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| schestowitz | Hi, PetoKraus | Jun 04 07:50 |
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| PetoKraus | hi roy | Jun 04 07:50 |
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| schestowitz | There was a more active discussion here a while ago. Sometimes an issue comes up or a new link emerges. | Jun 04 07:56 |
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| PetoKraus | well, i know | Jun 04 07:56 |
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| PetoKraus | this is IRC | Jun 04 07:56 |
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| PetoKraus | i am thinking whether i should put ubuntu or gentoo on mother's computer :D | Jun 04 07:59 |
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| schestowitz | If she doesn't need to mess about with the distro, Gentoo would probably be fine. | Jun 04 08:08 |
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| schestowitz | Just found: http://dot.kde.org/1212516937/ (Three German KDE Deployments). The good news flow... | Jun 04 08:08 |
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| PetoKraus | well the point is, if something screws, i can better fix it when she has gentoo on | Jun 04 08:08 |
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| schestowitz | Can also SSH | Jun 04 08:08 |
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| PetoKraus | good | Jun 04 08:08 |
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| PetoKraus | yeah, that's what i was talking about ;) | Jun 04 08:09 |
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| PetoKraus | i like the ASUS embedded linux thing | Jun 04 08:09 |
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| schestowitz | Won't be long before Softies back a suitcase and run over to Berlin with discounts. | Jun 04 08:09 |
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| PetoKraus | though Xandros is crap... apart from ideological matters | Jun 04 08:10 |
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| PetoKraus | the Atheros driver in EEEPC doesn't support enterprise WPA | Jun 04 08:10 |
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| schestowitz | If needed, free hardware too. | Jun 04 08:10 |
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| schestowitz | Zombulaptops ($99) run Gnetoo. | Jun 04 08:10 |
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| schestowitz | For the record: http://www.zonbu.com/home/index.htm | Jun 04 08:11 |
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| [H]omer | Good morning! | Jun 04 08:12 |
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| schestowitz | Hey homer. | Jun 04 08:12 |
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| schestowitz | Ballmy wants Yang's head today. | Jun 04 08:12 |
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| [H]omer | what's happening | Jun 04 08:12 |
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| schestowitz | He sent Icahn | Jun 04 08:12 |
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| [H]omer | oh, bizniz as usual then | Jun 04 08:12 |
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| schestowitz | Then he wants to bury some p* (Schmidt) | Jun 04 08:13 |
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| [H]omer | Sweaty the Impaler is a fitting title | Jun 04 08:13 |
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| [H]omer | He should buy an axe | Jun 04 08:13 |
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| [H]omer | do you think he'll end up getting Yahoo then? | Jun 04 08:14 |
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| schestowitz | Only the pieces of interest to him. He doesn't want the whole bundle. It's cheaper to let it have the unwanted parts like Flickr and just take away search query volume for spying (targeted ads, algorithm learning). | Jun 04 08:15 |
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| schestowitz | Eventually, they might even buy Sealand and make Icahn their President. | Jun 04 08:16 |
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| schestowitz | Hi, ZiggyFish | Jun 04 08:16 |
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| [H]omer | lol | Jun 04 08:16 |
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| ZiggyFish | schestowitz: hello | Jun 04 08:16 |
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| schestowitz | We talk about Yahoo! | Jun 04 08:16 |
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| ZiggyFish | nice | Jun 04 08:17 |
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| ZiggyFish | just reading the '#boycottnovell @ FreeNode: June 2nd, 2008' article ATM | Jun 04 08:18 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft essentially wants to buy Web real estate + logs | Jun 04 08:18 |
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| schestowitz | There's a lot of cruft in that first one because the channel was being set up | Jun 04 08:18 |
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| ZiggyFish | schestowitz: why doesn't that surprise me ;) | Jun 04 08:18 |
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| [H]omer | Just reading the news about Icahn now | Jun 04 08:19 |
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| [H]omer | Wow, this guy is a total megalomaniac | Jun 04 08:19 |
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| schestowitz | The WinTrolls need to see this new article about their stock market running what they call slopware: http://searchenterpriselinux.techtarget... | Jun 04 08:19 |
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| [H]omer | What makes Icahn think he has the right to oust boards of directors just to suit his warped sense of good bizniz practice? | Jun 04 08:20 |
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| schestowitz | If he lives in another country, then maybe he'd be in jail rather than be seen as a hero like Trump. | Jun 04 08:20 |
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| schestowitz | "lived" I mean | Jun 04 08:21 |
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| [H]omer | Yeah, him and Trump are two maggots in the same apple | Jun 04 08:21 |
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| schestowitz | Who's the Apple? Jobs? | Jun 04 08:21 |
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| [H]omer | :) | Jun 04 08:21 |
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| schestowitz | Jobs toois doing funny business. | Jun 04 08:21 |
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| schestowitz | He's rich so he gets away with it. | Jun 04 08:21 |
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| schestowitz | Last year he had some stuff backdated and all the peons jumped to the rescue of the emporer, so he's not in jail. Only in the USA can people commit crimes and get away with it. Bach too (of Microsoft), for inside-trading. | Jun 04 08:22 |
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| schestowitz | "emperor" | Jun 04 08:23 |
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| [H]omer | Icahn has spent 1B USD trying to assimilate Yahoo into the Vole!!! What gives? Is this guy a MS henchman or something? | Jun 04 08:24 |
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| PetoKraus | that zombu, is it FOSS? | Jun 04 08:25 |
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| PetoKraus | *nbu | Jun 04 08:25 |
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| schestowitz | Only 1? Well, he reminds me of McCain and you know who's McCain's favourite (for China)... | Jun 04 08:25 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, Zombu is all Gentoo-based and I think they only customise it. | Jun 04 08:25 |
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| [H]omer | I bet Icahn is a heavy MS investor, which accounts for why he's so desperate to pump up the stock price. | Jun 04 08:26 |
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| [H]omer | There should be laws against what he's doing | Jun 04 08:26 |
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| schestowitz | I think... just think... that I read the other day about him requiring SEC clearance for this. | Jun 04 08:28 |
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| schestowitz | The SEC too is controlled by insiders from what I could gather. I'm not suggesting that this was the case here, but it's really just a toothless clawless puppy|et. | Jun 04 08:29 |
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| benJIman | schestowitz: You are violating freenode policy by publishing logs without warning in the topic. | Jun 04 09:07 |
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| benJIman | schestowitz: http://blog.freenode.net/?p=62 | Jun 04 09:12 |
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| moparx | they are talking about logging bots that post everything ever said in a channel... not people posting a few tidbits | Jun 04 09:19 |
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| benJIman | moparx: He posted the entire log for the last few days. | Jun 04 09:23 |
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| schestowitz | Thanks, ben. I'll read the link. | Jun 04 09:23 |
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| schestowitz | Didn't know this. | Jun 04 09:23 |
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| schestowitz | OK, it seems to be about bot scrapers, but you are right. I should modify the topic. | Jun 04 09:25 |
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| benJIman | The post is about bots, the policy is a general policy. | Jun 04 09:25 |
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| *schestowitz has changed the topic to: Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications (publicly visible) | Jun 04 09:26 |
| schestowitz | Is this better? | Jun 04 09:26 |
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| PetoKraus | i don't think it clarifies anything | Jun 04 09:26 |
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| PetoKraus | better say, publicly logged | Jun 04 09:26 |
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| PetoKraus | ;) | Jun 04 09:26 |
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| schestowitz | I think the post was a response to scrapers, i.e. sites that just harvest FreeNode. | Jun 04 09:27 |
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| *schestowitz has changed the topic to: Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications (publicly logged) | Jun 04 09:27 |
| schestowitz | Thanks for the headsup, <benJIman>. I used IRC only when I was 13 or 14. | Jun 04 09:27 |
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| schestowitz | The net was small at the time. | Jun 04 09:28 |
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| moparx | unless I missed it.. there is nothing on the policy page: http://freenode.net/policy.shtml | Jun 04 09:28 |
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| schestowitz | I heard (read actually) some time ago about those blackhats exploiting or wanting to exploit IRC. | Jun 04 09:29 |
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| schestowitz | There are similar issues relating to USENET. | Jun 04 09:30 |
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| cyberorg | benJIman, what did i miss? | Jun 04 09:40 |
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| schestowitz | Hey, cyberorg | Jun 04 09:44 |
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| schestowitz | I later realised you're the Compiz guru | Jun 04 09:45 |
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| cyberorg | hi there schestowitz | Jun 04 09:45 |
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| cyberorg | no guru :P | Jun 04 09:45 |
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| schestowitz | Well, public face. | Jun 04 09:45 |
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| cyberorg | just opensuse compiz guy :) | Jun 04 09:46 |
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| cyberorg | nice if you to digg posts of mine once in a while | Jun 04 09:46 |
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| schestowitz | The folks there love eye candy. | Jun 04 09:47 |
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| cyberorg | yeah, i am a sucker for eye candy too | Jun 04 09:48 |
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| schestowitz | I still think that Digg is heavily gamed these days. People just vote in groups, which I never did. The important news is often missed | Jun 04 09:48 |
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| schestowitz | And Slashdot is doing Microsoft's dirty work. Now this http://ask.slashdot.org/a... and this http://blog.internetnews.com/skern... | Jun 04 09:48 |
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| schestowitz | The former is sponsored only by Microsoft. They do a SourceForge landgrab | Jun 04 09:49 |
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| schestowitz | The latter made Slashdot's front page even though it's anti-FOSS FUD | Jun 04 09:49 |
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| cyberorg | how do you get the time to read and post so many things? | Jun 04 09:51 |
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| moparx | speaking of digg.. I just realized I had never gotten around to adding you as a friend | Jun 04 09:51 |
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| moparx | schestowitz is really a robot that's how :p | Jun 04 09:52 |
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| cyberorg | moparx, ah, that explains it :) | Jun 04 09:52 |
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| schestowitz | No, I've just been spending too much time on this since I finished my practical work on the PhD (around the end of 2005). | Jun 04 09:54 |
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| cyberorg | so we call you Dr schestowitz yet? | Jun 04 09:55 |
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| schestowitz | Not yet, but I might win an award for being the slowest-ever person to write up. http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archiv... | Jun 04 09:56 |
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| cyberorg | haha, i am sure there are more people slower | Jun 04 09:57 |
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| cozub | yeah, like me :)) | Jun 04 09:58 |
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| schestowitz | I know one who took 7 years (a friend at the gym told me). | Jun 04 09:59 |
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| [H]omer | Watch this: http://slated.org/firefox_3_is_this_really_fr... | Jun 04 10:01 |
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| schestowitz | See http://blog.guykawasaki.com/2006/01/hi... . Matt Mullenweg (WordPress founder) linked to it at a time. It's very inspirational. | Jun 04 10:01 |
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| schestowitz | Something along these lines: "I was a diligent Oriental in high school and college. I took college-level classes and earned college-level credits. I rushed through college in 3 1/2 years. I never traveled or took time off because I thought it wouldn't prepare me for work and it would delay my graduation. Frankly, I blew it. You are going to work the rest of your lives, so don't be in a rush to start. Stretch out your college education. Now i | Jun 04 10:01 |
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| schestowitz | s the time to suck life into your lungs-before you have a mortgage, kids, and car payments. Take whole semesters off to travel overseas. Take jobs and internships that pay less money or no money. Investigate your passions on your parent's nickel. Or dime. Or quarter. Or dollar. Your goal should be to extend college to at least six years." | Jun 04 10:01 |
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| schestowitz | Luckily I cover all my expenses, which are low. | Jun 04 10:02 |
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| cozub | lol to the text ^ | Jun 04 10:03 |
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| schestowitz | I have GNU IceCat at home, [h]omer | Jun 04 10:03 |
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| schestowitz | It lives in harmony with FF. | Jun 04 10:04 |
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| schestowitz | @<cozub>: the problem is industry-imposed education which promotes obsession with money and material things. All those children of ours need to spend a month in Tibet and learn about culture, life, society, not TV and XBox. | Jun 04 10:05 |
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| cozub | schestowitz: U live in the UK? | Jun 04 10:08 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, it's rainy a lot of the time, but I live indoors. :-) | Jun 04 10:09 |
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| moparx | a lot of people don't seem to care about Firefox forcing the EULA. I had made a blog post stating that it was behavior indicative of proprietary software and the only response I got was basicall "so what" | Jun 04 10:09 |
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| ZiggyFish | schestowitz: I would guess your a German? | Jun 04 10:10 |
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| moparx | basically* | Jun 04 10:10 |
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| cozub | and I thought he live in the US based on that last comment on tibet and xbox | Jun 04 10:11 |
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| cozub | moparx: I think the average Joe doesn't care about licenses/freedom of software at all | Jun 04 10:11 |
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| cozub | at least this is my experience | Jun 04 10:12 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, my citizenship is German. Some of my family is in the US | Jun 04 10:12 |
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| cozub | a bit sad, that it | Jun 04 10:12 |
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| schestowitz | Most people don't understand freedom | Jun 04 10:12 |
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| schestowitz | They are taught to be this way. | Jun 04 10:12 |
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| schestowitz | Ask South Africans why they care about freedom and see what they don't take for granted. | Jun 04 10:12 |
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| [H]omer | cozub: what's the URL for your blog? | Jun 04 10:16 |
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| cozub | ehm, whose? :)) | Jun 04 10:16 |
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| [H]omer | sorry I mean moparx | Jun 04 10:17 |
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| cozub | :) | Jun 04 10:17 |
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| moparx | [H]omer: http://www.linuxinfusion.com/ | Jun 04 10:17 |
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| [H]omer | thx | Jun 04 10:17 |
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| [H]omer | Ah OK. I already link to your blog from mine | Jun 04 10:18 |
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| [H]omer | Your's seems to be the only other article on the issue | Jun 04 10:19 |
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| [H]omer | ??? | Jun 04 10:19 |
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| [H]omer | I got a comment from one of the gNewSense devs | Jun 04 10:19 |
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| [H]omer | Basically saying "use the GPL" version ???? | Jun 04 10:20 |
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| schestowitz | Savanna has it, no? | Jun 04 10:20 |
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| ZiggyFish | IMHO, their is open source and there is open source. people don't want to give away code that they have spent hours and hours, thinking, researching, coding and debugging (I'm a developer myself). Whether FF is completely open source is a matter of preference (I think the only thing that isn't open source in FF is the a component that they are working to get rid of in the next release) | Jun 04 10:20 |
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| schestowitz | Facebook is faking it at the moment. | Jun 04 10:21 |
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| [H]omer | ZiggyFish: Certainly IceCat is Freer than Firefox. | Jun 04 10:21 |
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| schestowitz | I wonder if I should write a post. I have: 1) Facebook adopts the CPAL poison pill ( http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-9958180-16.html ) and http://blogs.zdnet.com/ope... ( Is Facebook an open source hero or Microsoft clone?) | Jun 04 10:21 |
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| [H]omer | I intensely dislike all this "IP" garbage, and Mozilla Corp. seem to be on the "IP" bandwagon | Jun 04 10:22 |
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| ZiggyFish | [H]omer: $0 (IceCat) compared to $0 (Firefox)? | Jun 04 10:22 |
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| [H]omer | Its not about money | Jun 04 10:22 |
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| [H]omer | Free = Freedom | Jun 04 10:22 |
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| schestowitz | Mozilla is a non-profit | Jun 04 10:22 |
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| [H]omer | Trademark restrictions take away your Freedom | Jun 04 10:23 |
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| ZiggyFish | exactly | Jun 04 10:23 |
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| schestowitz | This way it keeps its fanbois doing the marketing, | Jun 04 10:23 |
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| ZiggyFish | [H]omer: Also I'm talking as most developers think. | Jun 04 10:25 |
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| ZiggyFish | schestowitz: didn't they just open up a bit of their software | Jun 04 10:25 |
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| [H]omer | I see the article made it to the front page of FSDaily http://www.fsdaily.com/Legal/Firefox_3... | Jun 04 10:25 |
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| schestowitz | Who, Facebook? | Jun 04 10:25 |
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| ZiggyFish | yeah | Jun 04 10:25 |
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| schestowitz | Haha. No! | Jun 04 10:26 |
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| schestowitz | :-) | Jun 04 10:26 |
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| schestowitz | It was the biggest fake I've seen in a hilw. | Jun 04 10:26 |
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| schestowitz | Arrington had a 'leak' last week about--wait for it-- "Facebook to go Open Source" | Jun 04 10:26 |
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| schestowitz | Now it turns out to be just a /portion/ of the /platform/ going CPAL (yuck! GPL-incompatible too). It's about Facebook getting free labour. | Jun 04 10:27 |
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| ZiggyFish | Facebook announced Monday that it is releasing a "significant" part of its platform as open-source code. The open code includes much of the social network's platform, along with many of its most used methods and tags. | Jun 04 10:27 |
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| [H]omer | ZiggyFish: WRT developers ... if they choose Free Software licensing, then they should *stick* to those principles, not later try to subvert them. They don't *have* to choose those licensing terms to begin with. | Jun 04 10:27 |
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| ZiggyFish | [H]omer: but the Mozilla developers choose a different license, yet your trying to force the them to use a the Free Software License. | Jun 04 10:29 |
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| [H]omer | I kinda reminds me of Joerg Schilling switching to that abomination called the CDDL (based on the MPL) for cdrecord | Jun 04 10:29 |
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| [H]omer | So you're saying that MPL is not Free Software? | Jun 04 10:29 |
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| [H]omer | In which case MPL licensed software should not be in GNU/Linux | Jun 04 10:30 |
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| ZiggyFish | [H]omer: No your saying that. what is the difference between IceCat and Firefox then? | Jun 04 10:31 |
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| [H]omer | IceCat does not abuse registered trademarks to take away your Freedom | Jun 04 10:31 |
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| [H]omer | Nor does it force EULA acceptance | Jun 04 10:32 |
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| ZiggyFish | [H]omer: so the MPL is not free, is it. ;) | Jun 04 10:32 |
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| [H]omer | Seems to be the case | Jun 04 10:32 |
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| [H]omer | The CDDL is similar (Solaris) | Jun 04 10:32 |
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| ZiggyFish | [H]omer: I'm just giving you a perspective on what a developer coming from a closed source background thinks, and IMHO these thing need to be sorted out, in order for a wider developer adoption to open source. The world revolves around money, and we can not ignore that. | Jun 04 10:36 |
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| ZiggyFish | We need to give developers a viable solution to that problem | Jun 04 10:40 |
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| [H]omer | Yes, but what I'm saying is that if developers care more about money than Freedom, then there is nothing preventing them simply starting out with proprietary licensing, instead of first fooling everyone with Free Software licensing and then subverting it with trademarks | Jun 04 10:42 |
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| schestowitz | This is important esp. now that Big Corps throw mud at the GPL. I'll blog about it later. :-) | Jun 04 10:42 |
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| [H]omer | And I'm also aware that Mozilla's background is proprietary (Netscape), just as Sun's is. And yet Sun have fixed the issues that Mozilla, apparently, can not | Jun 04 10:44 |
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| PetoKraus | yet you see folks blaming debian for what it does.. | Jun 04 10:45 |
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| [H]omer | I don't blame Debian for anything | Jun 04 10:45 |
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| schestowitz | A few weeks ago I asked Stallman about licences (something about MySQL) and he emphasised exactly what [h]omer says here. It needs to be more about ethical considerations, not just money. | Jun 04 10:45 |
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| [H]omer | ??? | Jun 04 10:45 |
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| ZiggyFish | [H]omer: Rome woesn't built in a day. Also freedom does not feed the family. | Jun 04 10:46 |
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| schestowitz | And speaking of Debian, the money from Google and other sources did more harm than good. | Jun 04 10:46 |
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| PetoKraus | [H]omer: not you, but i meet people... | Jun 04 10:46 |
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| [H]omer | And about the "money" issue. Who says Free Software cannot make money? That's a false dichotomy | Jun 04 10:46 |
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| PetoKraus | who disagree with the policy of not including FFx without rebranding it | Jun 04 10:46 |
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| schestowitz | Customised software is everything today. | Jun 04 10:46 |
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| schestowitz | People pay a fortune to have their CMSs customised and plugins/hacks written. | Jun 04 10:47 |
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| PetoKraus | ZiggyFish: freedom definitely doesn't, yet, we like freedom of speech, of religion etc... | Jun 04 10:47 |
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| schestowitz | Some developers charge /less/ if the client permits the work to be GPLed. | Jun 04 10:47 |
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| [H]omer | I also intensely dislike this false stigma that Free Software is about "leaching", and only used by "cheapskates", and that the only way to make money from software is to infect it with this fictitious rubbish called "Intellectual Property" (Intellectual Monopoly). That's a complete misnomer, perpetrated by archetypal corporatists. | Jun 04 10:51 |
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| ZiggyFish | PetoKraus: True. | Jun 04 10:51 |
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| schestowitz | Homer: yes, quite so. | Jun 04 10:51 |
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| [H]omer | Money should be made from products and services (i.e. something *real*) ... *not* "licensing" | Jun 04 10:52 |
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| schestowitz | Sharing=bad behaviour; visibility=bad quality. | Jun 04 10:52 |
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| ZiggyFish | I'm only telling you what the greater developer community thinks. | Jun 04 10:52 |
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| [H]omer | I'm sure they do, but that doesn't make it right | Jun 04 10:53 |
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| PetoKraus | but when the mentality of the people is... i'd rather use pirated version of Office 2003 than OpenOffice, which is not state-of-the-art... | Jun 04 10:53 |
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| [H]omer | Like I said, if they don't like Free Software licensing, then they don't have to use it | Jun 04 10:53 |
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| moparx | Hmm.. I appear to be nearly late for work. I'll talk with you all later. :) | Jun 04 10:53 |
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| [H]omer | bb | Jun 04 10:53 |
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| [H]omer | PetroKraus: good point. It perplexes me how some people would rather violate copyrights of proprietary software, that simply use Free Software for free | Jun 04 10:55 |
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| [H]omer | PS: I refuse to use the term "piracy" (Arrgghh Matey) since it is meaningless | Jun 04 10:55 |
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| PetoKraus | :) yes, i know | Jun 04 10:55 |
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| [H]omer | And yet The Pirate Bay actually use it as a kind of promotion ;) | Jun 04 10:56 |
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| [H]omer | BTW their court case is still ongoing, I take it? | Jun 04 10:56 |
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| PetoKraus | who knows.... | Jun 04 10:57 |
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| schestowitz | Appeal, I think. | Jun 04 10:57 |
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| [H]omer | They seem confident, after all ... they are only a *search engine*. Is the MPAA going to try to shut down Google too? | Jun 04 10:57 |
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| schestowitz | They start with the small boys. | Jun 04 10:57 |
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| PetoKraus | but they are one of the cases which show, that fighting for enforcement of copyrights as they are is lost cause... | Jun 04 10:57 |
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| schestowitz | Yahoo was already sued for linking. | Jun 04 10:57 |
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| [H]omer | Wow | Jun 04 10:58 |
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| schestowitz | Specifically, SEs were sued for -- wait for it -- search results. | Jun 04 10:58 |
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| schestowitz | Search for MP3 Artist, get song, yahoo accused. | Jun 04 10:58 |
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| [H]omer | Welcome to the New World Order | Jun 04 10:58 |
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| ZiggyFish | [H]omer: Microsoft would like that ;) | Jun 04 10:58 |
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| schestowitz | The War on 'Piracy' is like the War on 'Terror' | Jun 04 10:58 |
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| [H]omer | ZiggyFish: I'm sure ;) | Jun 04 10:59 |
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| schestowitz | Vista Will Fix Everything^R | Jun 04 10:59 |
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| [H]omer | lol | Jun 04 10:59 |
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| cozub | you mean permanent war for permanent peace? :)) | Jun 04 10:59 |
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| schestowitz | DRM as part of the OS(TM) ;-) | Jun 04 10:59 |
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| ZiggyFish | anyway what has stilling boats have to do with software ;) | Jun 04 10:59 |
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| PetoKraus | cozub: that's already implemented | Jun 04 10:59 |
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| [H]omer | Vista is not an OS ... it's an anti-circumvention device | Jun 04 10:59 |
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| schestowitz | Permanent war for permanent oil supply. | Jun 04 10:59 |
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| cozub | there was that aptly-named article, possibly linked from schestowitz's web - the title was something like "watch out for the copyright gestapo" | Jun 04 11:00 |
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| schestowitz | The MPAA gives a bad names to bad skippers. | Jun 04 11:00 |
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| [H]omer | ZiggyFish: Arrghh Matey. Hoist the Mainsail and garb that thar looty of MP3s | Jun 04 11:00 |
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| PetoKraus | :) | Jun 04 11:00 |
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| schestowitz | Gestapo wasn't my analogy | Jun 04 11:00 |
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| [H]omer | The RI/MPAA are a bunch of self-appointed fascist nutters | Jun 04 11:01 |
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| ZiggyFish | [H]omer: Vista is the same as Windows XP, A marketting tool. | Jun 04 11:01 |
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| ZiggyFish | PetoKraus: lol | Jun 04 11:01 |
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| [H]omer | ya | Jun 04 11:01 |
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| schestowitz | [To Homer: watch how Doofie goes bananas in COLA because of the earlier posts. The trolls are nervous, methinks]. | Jun 04 11:02 |
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| [H]omer | Msg-ID? | Jun 04 11:02 |
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| [H]omer | I plonk him so I don't see | Jun 04 11:02 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, Vista is XP plus a lot of marketing to hide this fact. | Jun 04 11:02 |
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| PetoKraus | nah | Jun 04 11:02 |
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| PetoKraus | i think if it WAS xp, it would not break hardware so much | Jun 04 11:03 |
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| ZiggyFish | schestowitz: this may be a stupid question what what is a Cola (is it like the drink) | Jun 04 11:03 |
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| ZiggyFish | *but what | Jun 04 11:03 |
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| schestowitz | There's some fluff in Vista, but the level of bugs makes it a step back. (note: I never tried Vista) | Jun 04 11:03 |
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| [H]omer | Vista is WinME2 only worse and more restrictive (and more bloated, less stable, fewer drivers, fewer compatible software titles, etc) | Jun 04 11:03 |
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| ZiggyFish | schestowitz: you don't want to | Jun 04 11:03 |
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| ZiggyFish | trust me | Jun 04 11:03 |
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| PetoKraus | i did, @ work | Jun 04 11:04 |
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| PetoKraus | haha! | Jun 04 11:04 |
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| schestowitz | COLA is an unmoderated Linux Advocacy newsgroups. Microsoftt Munchkins have a field trip there. | Jun 04 11:04 |
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| [H]omer | I tried the promo download copy of Vista once ... OMG is sucked ... badly | Jun 04 11:04 |
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| schestowitz | They already play up "7" | Jun 04 11:04 |
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| schestowitz | Another Vista. | Jun 04 11:04 |
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| schestowitz | A year ago they said it would be revolutionary. Just. Wait. Bear. With. Us. Don't go. That's Microsoft's plot anyway. | Jun 04 11:05 |
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| [H]omer | Remember the day Vista released RTM ... it was chaos on COLA | Jun 04 11:05 |
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| [H]omer | The shills were out in full force | Jun 04 11:05 |
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| PetoKraus | RTM? | Jun 04 11:05 |
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| schestowitz | Oh god yeah! I was an assault. yttrx said it happens every time there's a release. | Jun 04 11:05 |
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| [H]omer | All for nothing ... in the end Vista was a total disaster | Jun 04 11:05 |
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| ZiggyFish | I've brought 2 laptops with vista installed. After 4 hours. for it's first boot. I quickly had linux(ubuntu) running within half an hour | Jun 04 11:05 |
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| [H]omer | RTM = "Release To Manufacturing" | Jun 04 11:06 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft blew 0$.5 billion on marketing Vista at the start. | Jun 04 11:06 |
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| cozub | schestowitz: I was refering to this http://aardvark.co.nz/daily/2008/0526.shtml | Jun 04 11:06 |
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| PetoKraus | ZiggyFish: mine was with Vista as well. It was slow... REally. | Jun 04 11:06 |
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| cozub | took me a while to dig it up... you referenced it in http://boycottnovell.com/2008/05... | Jun 04 11:06 |
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| ZiggyFish | [H]omer: doesn't RTM = release to media ;) | Jun 04 11:06 |
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| PetoKraus | and it's freaking Core 2 Duo with 2GB RAM! | Jun 04 11:06 |
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| schestowitz | Oh yeah... I saw that too. The wording is a tad strong. Almost Godwin-verging. | Jun 04 11:06 |
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| ZiggyFish | PetoKraus: same | Jun 04 11:07 |
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| PetoKraus | schestowitz: they had a nice firework up here.... | Jun 04 11:07 |
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| schestowitz | Did it bloe? | Jun 04 11:07 |
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| PetoKraus | with big burning WOW on the river bank | Jun 04 11:07 |
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| [H]omer | ZiggyFish: not according to Microsoft's definition. But then they redefine *everything* anyway. Like "Open" for example | Jun 04 11:07 |
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| schestowitz | blow? | Jun 04 11:07 |
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| schestowitz | Eggs in face? | Jun 04 11:07 |
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| PetoKraus | schestowitz: not really. | Jun 04 11:07 |
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| PetoKraus | the fireworks were nice, though | Jun 04 11:07 |
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| *ZiggyFish agrees with [H]omer | Jun 04 11:07 |
| schestowitz | Well, Microsoft is still useful for entertainment then. | Jun 04 11:07 |
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| PetoKraus | let's keep it as virtual-machine pet, then. | Jun 04 11:08 |
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| schestowitz | pet pig maybe. | Jun 04 11:08 |
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| PetoKraus | i wouldn't eat THAT mean | Jun 04 11:08 |
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| [H]omer | lol | Jun 04 11:08 |
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| PetoKraus | *t | Jun 04 11:08 |
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| schestowitz | "Man who virtualises Viista put pig on RAM" | Jun 04 11:09 |
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| [H]omer | Microsoft mean is full of FAT | Jun 04 11:09 |
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| ZiggyFish | schestowitz: yeah, as long as they keep they don't explode ;) | Jun 04 11:09 |
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| [H]omer | Ohh, I made a funny | Jun 04 11:09 |
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| ZiggyFish | [H]omer: how | Jun 04 11:09 |
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| PetoKraus | i've seen the review, how one guy managed to put Vista on that EEEpc | Jun 04 11:09 |
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| PetoKraus | christ, that was funny | Jun 04 11:09 |
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| [H]omer | "Microsoft meat is full of FAT" I mean | Jun 04 11:09 |
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| ZiggyFish | lol | Jun 04 11:09 |
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| schestowitz | If they make SUSE bloted , that'll ruin other distros too. | Jun 04 11:10 |
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| schestowitz | Look what they do with Mono. | Jun 04 11:10 |
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| PetoKraus | yeah... | Jun 04 11:10 |
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| schestowitz | I mean, I read recently that the Mono devs' benchmarks contradict the reality. | Jun 04 11:10 |
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| [H]omer | Gah ... Mono. Don't talk to me about Mono | Jun 04 11:10 |
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| ZiggyFish | PetoKraus: wow, that would of been interesting, seeing the Vista on EEEpc. | Jun 04 11:10 |
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| PetoKraus | i don't know what's that even good for | Jun 04 11:10 |
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| [H]omer | Freakin Mono needs to die | Jun 04 11:10 |
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| schestowitz | They;ll port over DRM. | Jun 04 11:10 |
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| schestowitz | Trust me, Novell will bring DRM to GNOME. | Jun 04 11:11 |
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| [H]omer | Wonderful | Jun 04 11:11 |
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| [H]omer | I believe it | Jun 04 11:11 |
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| schestowitz | Just a matter of time. | Jun 04 11:11 |
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| PetoKraus | i use enlightenment | Jun 04 11:11 |
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| PetoKraus | i DONT care. | Jun 04 11:11 |
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| schestowitz | I wrote about this several times and a professor warned me about this too. | Jun 04 11:11 |
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| ZiggyFish | [H]omer: that's another topic. I'll leave for another day (mono) | Jun 04 11:11 |
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| PetoKraus | http://www.modaco.com/content/... | Jun 04 11:11 |
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| [H]omer | PetroKraus: Enlightenment is BSD licensed though | Jun 04 11:11 |
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| [H]omer | PetroKraus: God almighty | Jun 04 11:12 |
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| [H]omer | PetroKraus: Vista on an Eee | Jun 04 11:12 |
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| [H]omer | Gah | Jun 04 11:12 |
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| schestowitz | Elephant in the room = Vista on Eee PC | Jun 04 11:12 |
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| PetoKraus | i wonder | Jun 04 11:12 |
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| PetoKraus | Vista on XO | Jun 04 11:12 |
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| [H]omer | Portable Hippo | Jun 04 11:12 |
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| [H]omer | The software weighs a ton and gets very "angry" | Jun 04 11:13 |
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| schestowitz | One thing I've realised as I posed to COLA is that I can't remember which is which when it comes to Linux laptops. | Jun 04 11:14 |
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| PetoKraus | [H]omer: i am not really sure, but i think E17 is GPL | Jun 04 11:14 |
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| schestowitz | They are everywhere, esp. after all the giants started envying ASUS. | Jun 04 11:14 |
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| [H]omer | PetroKraus: If that's true then I'm a very happy man | Jun 04 11:14 |
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| PetoKraus | no one from the channel ops seems to be online now, though | Jun 04 11:15 |
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| schestowitz | The guy who runs it manages to cover expenses using donations, I think. | Jun 04 11:15 |
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| [H]omer | Gotta go do some work. Back L8R. | Jun 04 11:15 |
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| ZiggyFish | PetoKraus: Vista run slow on EEEPC | Jun 04 11:16 |
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| cozub | s/EEEPC/any normal box/ | Jun 04 11:16 |
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| cozub | :) | Jun 04 11:16 |
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| PetoKraus | nah | Jun 04 11:17 |
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| PetoKraus | it's slow even on T9300 w 3GB ram | Jun 04 11:17 |
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| PetoKraus | compared to about anything | Jun 04 11:17 |
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| schestowitz | My PC at home has just .0.25GB of RAM. | Jun 04 11:17 |
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| PetoKraus | my pc at home has .5 | Jun 04 11:18 |
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| PetoKraus | [H]omer: ok, they've replied. It's BSD, unfortunately ;) | Jun 04 11:18 |
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| ZiggyFish | schestowitz: what distribution do you use on that? | Jun 04 11:18 |
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| PetoKraus | don't say ubuntu, please. | Jun 04 11:19 |
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| schestowitz | At home it's Ubuntu 7.04 only with KDE 3.5.x | Jun 04 11:19 |
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| PetoKraus | :) yeah. | Jun 04 11:20 |
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| schestowitz | I just needed something for apt-get and couldn't get any other CD. | Jun 04 11:20 |
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| ZiggyFish | schestowitz: nice. | Jun 04 11:20 |
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| schestowitz | All distros are the same | Jun 04 11:20 |
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| schestowitz | Same components really. | Jun 04 11:20 |
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| schestowitz | I apt-get install kde-desktop no matter what's installed, unless it's already there. | Jun 04 11:20 |
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| ZiggyFish | the best distribution I've seen when it comes to low powered PC, is... | Jun 04 11:21 |
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| ZiggyFish | TinyMe | Jun 04 11:21 |
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| schestowitz | It looks decent. I saw about a dozen reviews. | Jun 04 11:22 |
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| ZiggyFish | it can run on a machine with 64 MB of ram (and still not use swap) | Jun 04 11:22 |
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| PetoKraus | well, that's nice. | Jun 04 11:22 |
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| schestowitz | PCLOS seems OK to me, but the Ubuntu hype is used against the 'supposedly' non-supported players. | Jun 04 11:22 |
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| PetoKraus | though i guess anything using something else than Xorg and KDE/Gnome can do that... | Jun 04 11:22 |
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| ZiggyFish | I tried it in a VM and set the memory to 64 MB and it runs as fast as 256 MB of memory | Jun 04 11:23 |
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| ZiggyFish | PetoKraus: it uses OpenBox | Jun 04 11:23 |
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| PetoKraus | guhh, i wanted to go out 3 hours ago | Jun 04 11:24 |
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| ZiggyFish | lol. | Jun 04 11:24 |
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| PetoKraus | then MAtlock started.... and after two hours - to be continued | Jun 04 11:24 |
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| PetoKraus | guh. I guess i'll go now... | Jun 04 11:24 |
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| schestowitz | See you soon. | Jun 04 11:24 |
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| PetoKraus | it's unbelievable how some pages get spammed within a week | Jun 04 11:25 |
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| PetoKraus | i got back home, and in 5 days i didn't read much news - more than 180 feeds. | Jun 04 11:25 |
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| PetoKraus | (/. accounts for a half.) | Jun 04 11:26 |
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| ZiggyFish | wow | Jun 04 11:26 |
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| ZiggyFish | It takes me around 2hrs to read the morning news each day | Jun 04 11:27 |
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| schestowitz | There was an article yesterday about news overload. There are many, I know. | Jun 04 11:27 |
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| ZiggyFish | 51 feeds I have | Jun 04 11:28 |
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| PetoKraus | well, mayonnaise in 30 degrees of celsius is NOT the best food... | Jun 04 11:28 |
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| schestowitz | Not if it's *kept *in these conditions. | Jun 04 11:29 |
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| ZiggyFish | out of the 51 I only get to read 13 feeds fully | Jun 04 11:29 |
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| schestowitz | Find comfort inn the fact that about 100,000,000 more feeds are unread. There's a limit to everyone's capacity. | Jun 04 11:29 |
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| ZiggyFish | PetoKraus: I'm not a mayonnaise eating person | Jun 04 11:29 |
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| ZiggyFish | yeah, I always read the articles on OOXML. That story has always interested me | Jun 04 11:31 |
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| PetoKraus | it's funny. | Jun 04 11:31 |
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| PetoKraus | and terrible | Jun 04 11:31 |
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| ZiggyFish | yeah | Jun 04 11:31 |
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| ZiggyFish | what feed reader do you guys use? | Jun 04 11:31 |
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| PetoKraus | i've written to my country's body dealing with standards | Jun 04 11:32 |
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| ZiggyFish | I use Liferea | Jun 04 11:32 |
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| PetoKraus | same | Jun 04 11:32 |
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| PetoKraus | because Slovakia abstained from voting back in september | Jun 04 11:32 |
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| schestowitz | OOXML is a rare opportunity. It shows Microsoft for the <put something here> that it is. | Jun 04 11:32 |
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| PetoKraus | i wanted to know why... they did reply, that they are not competent to answer my query and they'll move my request to their boss.... | Jun 04 11:33 |
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| PetoKraus | got no reply afterwards. | Jun 04 11:33 |
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| schestowitz | I use Thunderbird. I used RSSOwl before, but development was slow. | Jun 04 11:33 |
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| ZiggyFish | PetoKraus: what was the question you asked? | Jun 04 11:33 |
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| schestowitz | All these queries matter when they amass a volume. Then it's hard to ignore. | Jun 04 11:33 |
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| PetoKraus | why did we abstain from voting in september... | Jun 04 11:34 |
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| schestowitz | Which country? | Jun 04 11:34 |
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| PetoKraus | i mean, there has to be some reason | Jun 04 11:34 |
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| PetoKraus | slovakia | Jun 04 11:34 |
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| PetoKraus | we didn't even submit our vote | Jun 04 11:34 |
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| schestowitz | I can't remember incidents from there. | Jun 04 11:34 |
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| PetoKraus | well, none. | Jun 04 11:34 |
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| ZiggyFish | schestowitz: I've been using eveolution lately for email (because it's intergrated with GNOME). | Jun 04 11:34 |
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| schestowitz | Abstain=good for Microsoft. | Jun 04 11:34 |
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| PetoKraus | sure. | Jun 04 11:34 |
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| schestowitz | As in: "do whatever, we don't resist it" | Jun 04 11:35 |
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| PetoKraus | but we are one of the few countries in europe... and were one of the first ones, where ODF, RTF and PDF are used as document formats | Jun 04 11:35 |
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| schestowitz | They tried this in Poland too. | Jun 04 11:35 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft puppet on they face of it. They fooled voters. | Jun 04 11:35 |
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| schestowitz | The EU investigates this ATM. | Jun 04 11:35 |
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| PetoKraus | i am yet waiting for my first ODF document to get from the gov't - they mostly use RTF, since it's compatible, and PDF... | Jun 04 11:36 |
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| schestowitz | They could just make it all Web-based and avoid the paper trail. | Jun 04 11:36 |
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| PetoKraus | we don't trust web yet | Jun 04 11:36 |
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| PetoKraus | no valid legislature for digital signatures... | Jun 04 11:37 |
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| ZiggyFish | OpenOffice (2.4) can read OOXML quite well. I only had issues with 1/5 of the documents I tried to open | Jun 04 11:37 |
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| schestowitz | Isn't it Slovakia where they thought of Web-based voting? | Jun 04 11:37 |
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| *ZiggyFish ducks | Jun 04 11:37 |
| schestowitz | IE+ActiveX. | Jun 04 11:37 |
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| PetoKraus | internet shops require bank transactions, payment on delivery, rarely pay pal, payment by credit card is unsupported, since most of the cards don't have the security code... | Jun 04 11:37 |
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| PetoKraus | schestowitz: i don't think so... | Jun 04 11:38 |
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| ZiggyFish | PetoKraus: well acording to roys list, Slovakia (Phone: +421 2 60 29 44 74): | Jun 04 11:38 |
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| ZiggyFish | * OOXML: What Happened in the Czech Republic? | Jun 04 11:38 |
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| ZiggyFish | * It's OpenDocument All the Way for Holland (and Other Office Suites News) | Jun 04 11:38 |
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| schestowitz | That's like saying you can eat soil without getting diarrhoea. | Jun 04 11:38 |
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| PetoKraus | ZiggyFish: yes, it doesn't say anything about slovakia | Jun 04 11:38 |
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| schestowitz | It doesn't mean OOXML was needed. It's duplication of effort and a ramp for proprietary Windows-only addons. | Jun 04 11:38 |
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| PetoKraus | there's "czechoslovakia" references | Jun 04 11:38 |
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| ZiggyFish | My boss sent me stuff in OOXML format | Jun 04 11:39 |
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| schestowitz | You should ask for the binary former, IMHO. Pretend you can't open it. | Jun 04 11:39 |
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| schestowitz | format, not former. | Jun 04 11:39 |
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| ZiggyFish | schestowitz: true, the one I had an issue with, I ask him to resend it as a PDF. | Jun 04 11:40 |
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| schestowitz | Fidelity is higher with the blobs, so if you spoil the boss, s/he'll take for granted that OOXML is OK. | Jun 04 11:40 |
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| PetoKraus | i am gonna play some warcraft | Jun 04 11:41 |
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| PetoKraus | see ya later | Jun 04 11:41 |
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