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IRC Log for June 7th, 2008

*ZiggyFish ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 07 01:53
ZiggyFishgood morningJun 07 01:53
tessier_morningJun 07 01:54
*ZiggyFish_laptop ( has joined #boycottnovellJun 07 02:32
*ZiggyFish has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Jun 07 02:34
schestowitzOK, I'm back. Catching up. Welcome, zoobab.Jun 07 03:41
schestowitzPJ just wrote (about Acer): "Now if only they'd use a different distro, like any Debian flavor that has not done a deal with Microsoft, I'd buy one in a New York minute." What distro will Acer use? I thiink it was using Ubuntu last year.Jun 07 04:17
ZiggyFish_laptopschestowitz: I read about that the other day.Jun 07 04:31
ZiggyFish_laptopschestowitz: can't remember which distribution thoughJun 07 04:31
schestowitzMe too, but did they...Jun 07 04:31
schestowitzOh.Jun 07 04:31
schestowitzWell, you beat me to it Same here. PJ seems to suggest she knows the distro, but the article she cites says nothing about it.,Jun 07 04:32
schestowitzAlso found a while ago: ""We have shifted towards Linux because of Microsoft," he said. "Microsoft has a lot of power and it is going to be difficult, but we will be working hard to develop the Linux market."" ( )Jun 07 04:32
ZiggyFish_laptopjust did a quick google, and may helpJun 07 04:32
schestowitzI see. But this product line should be new.Jun 07 04:33
schestowitzIn Romania they did Linpus, which is good for average users.Jun 07 04:33
schestowitzI know this from Beranger. In Malaysia (or another part of Asia) they did Ubuntu... and other places too. Their CEO hares Vista with passion.Jun 07 04:34
ZiggyFish_laptopAcerXC5822. runs Ubuntu< 15-JAN-2008 22:43Jun 07 04:35
schestowitzJanuary though.Jun 07 04:36
schestowitzSO what's PJ on about. They wouldn't do Xandros and I never saw them doing SuSE.Jun 07 04:36
ZiggyFish_laptopmmJun 07 04:37
ZiggyFish_laptop - 3rd June 2008 12:34 GMT, but doesn't specify, what distro thoughJun 07 04:38
ZiggyFish_laptopgive me a second, need to do more deeper researchJun 07 04:38
schestowitzIt's important to ensure that Ballnux never becomes a de facto choice. Acer's new divorce could open the floodgates to more just as Dell's opening to Linux (last year) led to almost every OEM doing the same. Taking the wind off the SLED sales is important.Jun 07 04:39
ZiggyFish_laptopAcer has just announced their new 8.9" Aspire One ultraportable laptop. With a starting price of just $379, configurations include an Intel Atom processor, up to 1GB of RAM and either 8GB of flash storage or an 80GB hard drive as well as a choice between Linpus Linux Lite and Windows XP. Nothing here is out of the ordinary for this new class of laptops except its competitive price and that future iterations are planneJun 07 04:40
ZiggyFish_laptopd with 3G data support—yes, your computer may finally replace your smartphone. Read on for more details:Jun 07 04:40
schestowitzJust in: another Microsoft product -- dead. According to Mary Jo, we'll see more of that.Jun 07 04:41
schestowitzGoodJun 07 04:41
ZiggyFish_laptopwhat was that service about anywayJun 07 04:42
schestowitzWhen is this from? Linpus is a derivatives of...? I'm not sure.Jun 07 04:42
ZiggyFish_laptopmmJun 07 04:42
schestowitzWindows Live Expo. Never heard of it? Me neither. Well, probably won't hear about it again.Jun 07 04:42
moparxLinpus GNU/Linux is a Fedora based desktop GNU/Linux distributionJun 07 04:42
moparx 07 04:42
ZiggyFish_laptop - 9:22 AM on Tue Jun 3 2008Jun 07 04:43
schestowitzThanks, moparxJun 07 04:43
moparxno problem :)Jun 07 04:44
schestowitzMicrosoft Live appears to be collapsing. This is the 3rd service that will sleep with the fishes... in a matter of a fortnight.Jun 07 04:44
ZiggyFish_laptopschestowitz: apparently their removeing some of the xbox live games tooJun 07 04:45
schestowitzMicrosoft /NEEDS/ Live. It's the future. It's where it heading if it wants to keep up with Google and Linux clouds. Live Office has been a disaster for over a year (I have many links) and now the Icahn Bully is trying desperately to make a full takeover of Yahoo!Jun 07 04:45
ZiggyFish_laptoplet me find a linkJun 07 04:46
schestowitzYes, they do.Jun 07 04:46
schestowitzXBox and Zune have serious problems too.Jun 07 04:46
schestowitzBallmer joked about them last month.Jun 07 04:46
schestowitzHe called them "funny products"Jun 07 04:46
schestowitzXBox is already thrown off some shelves in some cities.Jun 07 04:47
ZiggyFish_laptopschestowitz: is that because everyone laughs at them?Jun 07 04:47
schestowitzIn India and reportedly in AU too (Microsoft tried to deny it)Jun 07 04:47
schestowitzNo, Ballmer just said that they can't figure out how to make money from these products. Like the Web division, these lose $billiobs.Jun 07 04:47
ZiggyFish_laptopschestowitz: don't know about Australia (never really looked).Jun 07 04:47
schestowitzEnding office monopoly is going for Microsoft's jugular. Windows is already selling  for as little as $18, so they try to tax Linux.Jun 07 04:48
ZiggyFish_laptop 07 04:48
schestowitzApple is hardly a threat to Microsoft because they sell Office, they hold Apple shares and the prices they can compete with. There's also cross-licensing.Jun 07 04:49
ZiggyFish_laptopschestowitz: Something chris says I agree with. but a lot of the time. he is wrongJun 07 04:50
schestowitzYesterday Microsoft complained about the GUI (XBox Live) and there's nothing new coming. In fact, last year it's reported that about 15% (at the least) of the XBox workforce left the company (including the leader). Same goes for Zune and Vista's key people depart also.Jun 07 04:50
ZiggyFish_laptophe's a big Mac fan.  He's had a few rants about VistaJun 07 04:51
schestowitzI had an argument with Chris recently because he sort of refuses to believe that Microsoft deserved the Iowa fines.Jun 07 04:51
ZiggyFish_laptopschestowitz: he is one of those people who aren't open minded (but he thinks he is)Jun 07 04:52
schestowitzI don't know him well enough. It's a shame that he's not a *NIX manJun 07 04:53
schestowitzHe tries though. He joined us in the wordpress developers list a few years back and he's getting 'into it'.Jun 07 04:53
ZiggyFish_laptopyeah.Jun 07 04:53
ZiggyFish_laptopWine's getting very close to 1.0 statusJun 07 04:54
ZiggyFish_laptoptoday released 1.0rc4Jun 07 04:54
schestowitzWell, it's a tagging bump, but not much more of a technical milestone.Jun 07 04:54
schestowitzWill they have 1..0rc49? You know, like the numbers they have had below 1.0? [sarcasm]Jun 07 04:55
ZiggyFish_laptopapparently they are planing on releasing it on it's birthdayJun 07 04:55
schestowitz15?Jun 07 04:55
ZiggyFish_laptopyeah, think soJun 07 04:55
schestowitzMicrosoft killed Corel LinuxJun 07 04:56
schestowitzI didn't follow any of that at the time, but I'm learning what happened. Novell 0.9Jun 07 04:56
ZiggyFish_laptopit's one of my feeds, i getJun 07 04:57
schestowitzWatch the bullies: 07 04:58
ZiggyFish_laptopAlexandre stated back in October 2007 that he knew of no 1.0 release blockers even then, and suggested we pick Wine's 15th anniversary for the actual date. Depending on how you look at it, there are several possible birthdays for Wine, mainly:Jun 07 04:58
ZiggyFish_laptopGiven that the exact birthday is a bit fuzzy, we'll simply continue with our normal biweekly release dates. That puts the 1.0 release at June 6th if it's ready by then, or June 20th or July 4th if it's not.Jun 07 04:58
schestowitzBallmer: I errr... don't know this man... yeah, we chatted. We said many times we would start a proxy fight, but really... man! We don't know this man... "he's independent"Jun 07 04:58
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schestowitzHey, 'Dougman'?Jun 07 04:59
ZiggyFish_laptopI think Icahn, is going to be looking for a new job soon. Better send him the paper ;)Jun 07 05:00
schestowitzThey should unleash the secret services on people like him. It's the modern-day mafia but with more wealth.Jun 07 05:02
ZiggyFish_laptop - Security Bites Podcast: Mozilla's 'Human Shield' on Firefox 3Jun 07 05:06
ZiggyFish_laptopthis shows you how much Net Applications is biased toward microsoft.Jun 07 05:11
schestowitzBy Human Shield I thought it would say something about blocking Microsoft from pulling a Novell against FFJun 07 05:12
ZiggyFish_laptopnet applications =  Firefox accounts for 18.4%Jun 07 05:12
schestowitzMicrosoft already has a sort of insider int here (Snyder)Jun 07 05:12
ZiggyFish_laptopw3schools =  39.1%Jun 07 05:12
schestowitzIt's probably moreJun 07 05:12
ZiggyFish_laptopxitimonitor = 28 %Jun 07 05:12
schestowitzYou know why? Because of all those Win32/IE zombie running rampant.Jun 07 05:13
schestowitzIn BoycottNovell FF is something like 70%. Let me check.Jun 07 05:13
schestowitzI flush logs every night though. Just graphs remain.Jun 07 05:13
ZiggyFish_laptopschestowitz: lolJun 07 05:14, 52% Gecko basedJun 07 05:14
ZiggyFish_laptopfirefox = Geko basedJun 07 05:14
schestowitzThis month in FF has 60.2 %Jun 07 05:14
ZiggyFish_laptopsame site 40% for IE, lolJun 07 05:15
schestowitzLinux: 44.7 %Jun 07 05:15
schestowitzMore than Windows! :-)Jun 07 05:15
ZiggyFish_laptopniceJun 07 05:15
dsmith_roy, yes that was meJun 07 05:15
ZiggyFish_laptopschestowitz: is that unique visits though?Jun 07 05:15
schestowitzLenovo: "Buy Microsoft. Which will it be? Microsoft Windows or Microsoft Linux?"Jun 07 05:15
schestowitzNo, not unique, hit basedJun 07 05:16
ZiggyFish_laptopohJun 07 05:16
schestowitzWhat's why stats can be so meaningless and be gamed.Jun 07 05:16
schestowitzMicrosoft /LOVES/ playing with stats to underplay Linux presence.Jun 07 05:16
ZiggyFish_laptopI wonder if  Net Applications is unique basedJun 07 05:17
dsmith_lalalla, doesn't understandJun 07 05:17
dsmith_I did not mention Dell, but I am aware of it. perhaps I do not want a Dell?Jun 07 05:18
schestowitzIt's the site they sample (population) that countJun 07 05:18
ZiggyFish_laptopbecause if it isn't, and i assume Microsoft would be a big part of the stats.Jun 07 05:18
schestowitzOh, and weighting.Jun 07 05:18
dsmith_were back to square one again, no choice in OSJun 07 05:18
*moparx has quit ("leaving")Jun 07 05:18
schestowitzHypothetical scenario: take, take some 1000 mom-and-pop site, concatenate and then parse. What will you get?Jun 07 05:19
schestowitzWhy don't they just sell frakin' hardware? You know  what Microsoft did? It called them 'naked' PCs. The demonisation.Jun 07 05:20
dsmith_naked, lolJun 07 05:22
schestowitzNot openJun 07 05:22
dsmith_get this they still sales the workstations with no OSJun 07 05:23
schestowitzNot liberated.Jun 07 05:23
dsmith_go figureJun 07 05:23
schestowitzNaked.Jun 07 05:23
dsmith_http://shop...Jun 07 05:23
schestowitzIt then played police and insisted that if people don't have an O/S preinstalled, they are criminals, pirates, thieves. When Wal-Mart sells Linux, it then need to ensure people keep it on the system. Microsoft Police demands this.Jun 07 05:23
schestowitzBuy your O/S-free PC now.... don't forget to buy a bathing suit for it, at the least.Jun 07 05:23
ZiggyFish_laptopthat's one of the big things windows has for them, vendersJun 07 05:24
ZiggyFish_laptopmy local, mall doesn't have a single linux PC/laptop (2 floors).Jun 07 05:25
schestowitzdsmith, why does it say "_Genuine_ Windows Vista Business"?Jun 07 05:26
dsmith_on the link?Jun 07 05:26
ZiggyFish_laptopand there is 6 shops that sell computersJun 07 05:27
schestowitzDunno. I need to enable JS to click on it to open.Jun 07 05:27
dsmith_Operating system12Jun 07 05:27
dsmith_  DOS (No Software Preloaded)Jun 07 05:27
dsmith_D10 Dos OS, SATA and SAS drive versionJun 07 05:28
ZiggyFish_laptopsorry nine shopsJun 07 05:28
schestowitzGenuine = nice way of making you feel special. ("less nagware, despite remote switch")Jun 07 05:28
ZiggyFish_laptopschestowitz: windows is nagware. Less would = no windows :PJun 07 05:29
schestowitzVista is a new breed though. Ask those who know the internals.Jun 07 05:30
ZiggyFish_laptopschestowitz: would I be asking kids, or monkeysJun 07 05:30
schestowitzThe Microsoft (MSN) butterfly flew too close to the sun. They got greedy. If they build it, will people come?Jun 07 05:31
*dsmith_ looks over ACER's websiteJun 07 05:31
schestowitzAcer seems to be the 'next  Asus' (in terms of strategy)Jun 07 05:33
dsmith_horrible, search function. It never loaded, and when one clicks on laptops it gives 20 different versions to choose from, how uselessJun 07 05:36
ZiggyFish_laptopbrbJun 07 05:38
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dsmith_seems they offer a 5710z ubuntu laptop, but its for overseas customers.Jun 07 05:40
dsmith_I cannnot find linux on thier site at allJun 07 05:40
schestowitzWindows Vista gives 9 options. :-)Jun 07 05:40
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ZiggyFishbackJun 07 05:43
dsmith_ 07 05:45
schestowitz*looks*Jun 07 05:47
schestowitzI wonder how Microsoft will respond to this (rest assure, they'll try). Jim Allchin, Microsoft: "I feel we are much too smug in dealing with Novell. Perhaps they didn’t hurt us in DOS yet — but it’s not because of product or their trying. It’s because ____we already had the OEMs wrapped up.____"Jun 07 05:48
ZiggyFishnice articleJun 07 05:51
ZiggyFishcommicalJun 07 05:51
schestowitzGuys, should we maybe assemble a table of Ballnux free OEMs?Jun 07 05:58
schestowitzAs in... advise people on where to purchase Linux while avoiding the Microsoft patent tax?Jun 07 05:59
ZiggyFishTelstra in Australia is a very very big telco (it was once own by the government previously). and Telstra bid to build the Federal Government's $4.7 billion funded national broadband network (NBN).Jun 07 06:00
dsmith_sure.Jun 07 06:00
dsmith_there are a few out thereJun 07 06:00
ZiggyFishBut both  Internode and Acer are looking at open source for this new networkJun 07 06:00
schestowitzTesco sells eSys Ubuntu boxes now. 6.04, IIRC (LTS)Jun 07 06:00
ZiggyFish 07 06:01
schestowitzI'm not sure about few, esp. if you consider small shops. LXer has a database.Jun 07 06:01
schestowitzIf you can present offers and say "vendor X offers distribution Y, but..."Jun 07 06:01
schestowitzYou can reward those which steer away from the Ballnuxes.Jun 07 06:02
dsmith_eracks being one, system76, emperorlinux, psystarJun 07 06:02
dsmith_psystar offers MAc as wellJun 07 06:02
dsmith_ 07 06:03
schestowitzYes, Paystar is doing something positive by fighting hardware lockin tooJun 07 06:03
dsmith_one can see the OS costsJun 07 06:03
schestowitzGood article, ZF. Thanks, I'll use it later.Jun 07 06:04
ZiggyFishthere is another article assicoated with that as well. let me find the linkJun 07 06:05
ZiggyFish - Report: Consumers to pay 15 percent more for Telstra built networkJun 07 06:05
schestowitzIt's the Acer part which is new to me. The mirror I saw before.Jun 07 06:07
schestowitzI know Telstra because of iTWireJun 07 06:07
schestowitzSpeaking of (IMG)Jun 07 06:08
ZiggyFishschestowitz: sponsored by...Jun 07 06:09
ZiggyFishMicrosoftJun 07 06:09
schestowitzYes, but it used to be just MS, then MS and O'Reilly.Jun 07 06:09
schestowitzI'm going to post somehting about this later.Jun 07 06:10
schestowitzAnd this from Bruce Perens: (Microsoft Protests Linux on Phoenix Mars Mission - Future Mars Probe Will Run Windows)Jun 07 06:10
dsmith_lmfaoJun 07 06:11
schestowitzI'm telling you, it's like a cult. Maybe that's why they spend millions on lobbying.Jun 07 06:12
schestowitzI was in Washington a couple of years ago and they have that space museum, so it made me think immediately: MS lobbyists (see article from yesterday) = Washington + NASA = Windows in space.Jun 07 06:13
dsmith_lolJun 07 06:13
dsmith_air & Space meuseum is niceJun 07 06:14
*tessier loves the Aie & Space MuseumJun 07 06:14
tessierOne of my favorite places.Jun 07 06:14
schestowitzMicrosoft PRESS RELEASE, for IMMEDIATE RELEASE: Microsoft and NASA Announce Collaboration on Space Exploration with ActiveX and Zune Technologies.Jun 07 06:14
schestowitz"look ma! Windows is so stable they even run it in space!!!11111"Jun 07 06:15
schestowitzIt's a nice museum. very memorable.Jun 07 06:15
schestowitzThen again, you fly, so it means more to you.Jun 07 06:16
dsmith_if MS is protesting about phoenix lander, they should send ballmer to swap it outJun 07 06:16
schestowitzI'll tell you what. Make them a deal.Jun 07 06:17
schestowitzPut Ballmer on the next shipment to Mars. Jun 07 06:17
tessierSpeaking of flying, I recently uploaded some of my flying videos: 07 06:17
schestowitz*watching*Jun 07 06:17
dsmith_pilot?Jun 07 06:18
dsmith_so am IJun 07 06:18
dsmith_hahaJun 07 06:18
dsmith_Duchess thats an old twinJun 07 06:20
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ZiggyFishniceJun 07 06:24
schestowitzReminded me of something I saw earlier, for strange reasons you can guess: 07 06:26
tessierScheier is my heroJun 07 06:27
schestowitzOh, and that story from last week about the guy with a Transformers t-shirt being refused when it comes to boarding the place and risking arrest (the t-shirt had robots on it *gasp*)Jun 07 06:27
dsmith_yeaJun 07 06:29
dsmith_tessier youa  CFi?Jun 07 06:30
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dsmith_ interesting links..Jun 07 06:33
dsmith_Restart reactor to complete software installation. Yes/No?Jun 07 06:33
schestowitzEveryone knows that people with bombs or schemes are boarding planes with t-shirts, esp. ones with violent imagery on them. You know, like kids' shows. *rolls eyes*Jun 07 06:33
dsmith_lolJun 07 06:33
schestowitzOld power plants move from obscure proprietary code to Linux (and Windows), at least in the UK. There was an article about it last weekJun 07 06:35
schestowitzWGA server goes down -> blackoutJun 07 06:35
dsmith_Linux may not be ready for the desktop, but it is ready for the surface of Mars.Jun 07 06:35
schestowitz"Ready for the Desktop" meme. Where can I buy the t-shirt (and is it airport-'safe'?)Jun 07 06:36
tessierdsmith_: Not yet but I'm working on it.Jun 07 06:53
dsmith_ahhh, I have yet to finish my private..Jun 07 06:53
dsmith_I am have been slowly trying ti finish but work s keeps getting in my wayJun 07 06:54
dsmith_~100 hrsJun 07 06:54
tessierI have nearly a thousand hours.Jun 07 06:54
dsmith_ahhh sweetJun 07 06:54
dsmith_ever been to oshkosh?Jun 07 06:54
tessierNo but I've always wanted to. But I'm in San Diego. That's a long flight.Jun 07 06:55
tessierAnd of course if I go to Oshkosh I want to fly myself there.Jun 07 06:55
tessierMaybe I'll fly to Indiana to visit my mom and rent a plane from thereJun 07 06:56
schestowitzMicrosoft is getting ripped here: 07 07:03
ZiggyFishhave you guys moved over to the US, moved over to 3G network yetJun 07 07:09
ZiggyFishAustralia is on migrating to the NextG network slowly. We now can't at all get the CDMA network.Jun 07 07:10
dsmith_dunnoJun 07 07:10
ZiggyFishTelstra, stopped the CDMA network I think last month (I believe)Jun 07 07:11
ZiggyFishTelstra stopped, on 03 MayJun 07 07:13
ZiggyFishbackJun 07 07:20
schestowitzSomeone seems to have just threatened a Microsoft Munchkin.Jun 07 07:25
schestowitzI caught up with COLA, which has the message:Jun 07 07:25
tessier NeatoJun 07 07:25
schestowitz"Promise to Flatfish [...] Gary Stewart, AKA Moshe Goldfarb and countless others. Your libelous speeches toward Linux advocacy have been noticed. You can run, but you can't hide.  See you in court." There are some new laws in the EU against AstroTurfing. They came into effect May 26th.Jun 07 07:26
schestowitzRuns Linux, IIRC, tessier. Or something along those lines. Sony puts Linux in its TV sets.Jun 07 07:26
tessierYepJun 07 07:27
tessierI have a friend who works for Sony and does the Linux stuff in the TV sets. :)Jun 07 07:27
PetoKraus:)Jun 07 07:27
tessierThe EEE stuff runs XandrosJun 07 07:27
tessierI have an EEE PC  which I carry in the trunk of my car all the time.Jun 07 07:27
PetoKrauswasn't the... linux in PS3's embedded somewhere?Jun 07 07:27
schestowitzThe Xandros guy told me they don't pay royaltiesJun 07 07:27
PetoKrausbecause we removed the hard drive and it still booted into the linuxJun 07 07:27
schestowitzActually, he just said they were not tied to the Microsoft deaJun 07 07:27
schestowitzdealJun 07 07:27
schestowitzPS2 also, I hear...Jun 07 07:28
tessierschestowitz: Who is that threatening to sue?Jun 07 07:28
schestowitzI don't know. He used Tor.Jun 07 07:28
tessierIn all of the years of cola and lawsuits I have never heard of a single suit actually being filedJun 07 07:28
schestowitzI got an E-mail about a month ago. Someone wants him in jailJun 07 07:28
schestowitz.Recently, the Microsoft trolls have gone as far as intimidation, not just smearsJun 07 07:29
schestowitzIt's getting ugly and for all I can tell they try to gag advocates.Jun 07 07:29
tessierYou think it's MS behind it? Or just disaffected windows nerds?Jun 07 07:30
schestowitzMicrosoft +ecosystem, IMHO. Lots of people depend on MS dominance.Jun 07 07:31
tessierBut do the people who depend on MS dominance really have time to sit in cola and make waves with Linux advocates who are just preaching to the choir?Jun 07 07:31
schestowitzNessunu (he's a professor by the way) reckons that only DFS is an independent Windows developers and the others are the fruits of corporate corruption.Jun 07 07:32
tessierAnyone with any real business sense such that they depend on MS would know cola is pointlessJun 07 07:32
schestowitzRemember that they operate outside COLA too.Jun 07 07:32
tessierBut they sure seem to spend a lot of time on colaJun 07 07:33
tessierAnd why spend any time on it at all? They aren't having one lick of effect on anythingJun 07 07:33
schestowitzThe stuff in COLA gets indexed and seen.Jun 07 07:33
schestowitzGo to Google, type in 'microsoft briberies'. See what you get in the results.Jun 07 07:34
dsmith_1,760 resultsJun 07 07:35
schestowitzWhat's in page 1?Jun 07 07:35
dsmith_yoursJun 07 07:36
dsmith_hahJun 07 07:36
dsmith_actually 96 when doing "micorsoft briberies"Jun 07 07:36
tessierI never see stuff on usenet turn up in google searches unless I specifically search 07 07:42
schestowitzThey began merging these searches a while ago (no idea as to why) and there are USENET mirrors (static HTML) as wwell.Jun 07 07:44
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ZiggyFishDue to a problem in the way Apache binds itself to port 80 on Windows machines allows the PHP environment running under Apache to gain access to the information being sent to port 80, which in turn can be leveraged to preform man-in-the-middle attacks. ROLFJun 07 08:44
schestowitzURL?Jun 07 08:44
ZiggyFish 07 08:45
schestowitzWindows was never designed for a networked (let alone multi-user) environment. Proof here: 07 08:46
ZiggyFishnice, Microsoft Plans Seven Security Fixes Next Week <http://www.informationweek....Jun 07 08:54
ZiggyFishThe "critical" flaws affect Bluetooth and DirectX in certain versions of Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Internet Explorer. The "critical" designation typically means an attack could exploit the vulnerability to execute malicious code remotely on an affected system.Jun 07 08:54
ZiggyFishThe "important" flaws affect Windows Internet Name Service, Active Directory, and Pragmatic General Multicast. The WINS issue could allow for user privilege elevation, while the Active Directory and PGM vulnerabilities could allow a denial-of-service attack.Jun 07 08:54
ZiggyFishThe "important" flaw affects a Windows registry Kill Bit, which is used to disable ActiveX controls. Microsoft says the vulnerability could lead to remote code execution, but it apparently believes mitigating factors make this vulnerability less dangerous.Jun 07 08:54
ZiggyFishMicrosoft will release more specific information about the vulnerabilities next week.Jun 07 08:54
PetoKrauswhen microsoft believes a vulnerability is not dangerous because of obstacles in the wayJun 07 08:59
PetoKrausWRONGJun 07 08:59
PetoKraustake Xbox as an example...Jun 07 08:59
schestowitzHow so?Jun 07 09:04
PetoKrauswell, they made security systemJun 07 09:06
PetoKrausto disable people from booting linux/playing copied gamesJun 07 09:06
PetoKraustrough some bad design decisions, low budget and hurry it was brokenJun 07 09:06
PetoKrausand their fixes were - not to patch the hole, but to build a fence around it...Jun 07 09:06
PetoKrausthere was a nice article how they did itJun 07 09:07
PetoKraushere: 07 09:07
PetoKrausand i am gonna go to the forestJun 07 09:08
PetoKraussee you tomorrowJun 07 09:08
schestowitzHeh. Yeah, I remember.Jun 07 09:18
schestowitzThey blocked Linux. That, to Microsoft at least, is a 'security' breach.Jun 07 09:18
schestowitz40% of the world's PCs are zombies? Na, that's peanuts, as long as they run Windows. A few hackers running Linux on the XBox? OMG! Take cover!!!!11111Jun 07 09:19
ZiggyFishschestowitz: it more of a bottom line breach for Microsoft, then a securityJun 07 09:19
schestowitzFinancial security.Jun 07 09:19
ZiggyFishlolJun 07 09:20
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ZiggyFishschestowitz: have you read this http://seattlepi.nwsou... - Icahn pushes Yahoo to sell to MicrosoftJun 07 09:47
ZiggyFishSAN FRANCISCO -- Billionaire investor Carl Icahn ratcheted up the pressure on Yahoo Inc. Friday, saying that the Web portal should sell itself to Microsoft Corp. for $49.5 billion, which is $2 billion more than what had been offered before negotiations between the two technology titans collapsed last month.Jun 07 09:47
schestowitz[speculation] So Microsoft still wants Yahoo! but it wants to stage this differently, having history tell that Yahoo was the one wooing Microsoft.Jun 07 09:50
ZiggyFish50 B is a lot of money. do you thing Yahoo will sell on that. Even with Microsoft's resources, do they have enough money(considering that microsoft is on a 52 week low ATM)?Jun 07 09:52
schestowitzNo.Jun 07 09:54
schestowitzMicrosoft has only about 26 B in the bank.Jun 07 09:54
schestowitzFor the first time in its history it would need to borrow lots of money, but it's a question of long-term survival, so it hasn't much choice.Jun 07 09:55
ZiggyFishschestowitz: that's it. even for a bank to loan that amount, is a big big riskJun 07 09:55
ZiggyFish24 B need to borrowJun 07 09:55
ZiggyFishAnd AFAIK Yahoo, was looking for that amount anyway.Jun 07 09:56
schestowitzWell..Jun 07 09:59
schestowitzThey need that money for returns to investors.Jun 07 09:59
ZiggyFishtrueJun 07 10:00
schestowitzStill, they ran out of capacity to run themselves independently, the company's market cap sank $30 B in just 3 months (Feb -May) and profit declined in the last report (Windows sales down 24%)Jun 07 10:01
schestowitzWait until they start blaming recession, not Vista (ME2) or ME3 (aka Seven)Jun 07 10:01
ZiggyFishIf Microsoft takes over Yahoo, it would have to pay employees who subsequently are fired or who leave for "good cause" between two months and two years of salary.Jun 07 10:09
ZiggyFishInternal Yahoo documents made public by a lawsuit estimate that the benefit would cost Microsoft around $2.4 billion if a merger were consummated at $35 per share.Jun 07 10:09
schestowitzI care less about the money and more about choice.Jun 07 10:15
schestowitzIf Yahoo is devoured to die along with Microsoft, then all we have is Google (or temporarily Microsoft).Jun 07 10:15
schestowitzYahoo! Engineers + Microsoft Bureaucracy = Rotten Beaver.Jun 07 10:16
ZiggyFishschestowitz: you always have ask.comJun 07 10:28
zoobabhiJun 07 10:30
ZiggyFishhiJun 07 10:30
schestowitzHey Ben.Jun 07 10:31
zoobabwhat's up?Jun 07 10:31
schestowitzI've found some stuff about great Microsoft INNOVA~1Jun 07 10:31
zoobabwe are preparing for the next battle against swpats hereJun 07 10:31
zoobabthe French presidency wants a central courtJun 07 10:32
schestowitzMicrosoft’s brainwave is called Device Manners Policy (DMP) and it could ensure that if a sign says “No photography allowe[d]”, then your camera or your phone’s camera won’t work. ( )Jun 07 10:32
schestowitzRecipe for disasterJun 07 10:32
zoobabof courseJun 07 10:32
schestowitzAnd:http://fringethoughts.wordp... (on ACTA)Jun 07 10:32
zoobabbut we have the chance to have unanimity  in the CounciolJun 07 10:32
zoobabso we have to trigger problemsJun 07 10:32
schestowitzFrench presidency is in Microsoft's pocketJun 07 10:32
zoobablike the fact that we don't have a constitution in EuropeJun 07 10:32
schestowitzLiterally lodging together.Jun 07 10:33
zoobaband judges should be appointed in compliance with constitutional rulesJun 07 10:33
schestowitzMy background in politics in poor, but I see what you mean.Jun 07 10:33
zoobabmine tooJun 07 10:34
schestowitzI'm a CS person.Jun 07 10:34
zoobabespecially in lawJun 07 10:34
schestowitzLaw: rules money can generateJun 07 10:34
zoobabthe good thing is that the more time passes on, the worse it gets with swpatsJun 07 10:34
schestowitzLawyer: position for generation of money from lawJun 07 10:34
schestowitzThey are passing some in the UK.Jun 07 10:35
zoobabjust wait five years, it will be a plague in the USJun 07 10:35
schestowitzFinjan down in London, sponsored by Microsoft.Jun 07 10:35
zoobabwhat is Finjan?Jun 07 10:35
schestowitzEven in India now, and SA.Jun 07 10:35
schestowitzSome silly 'investor' company, something to do with inspecting static code, IIRC.Jun 07 10:36
schestowitzI'd have to check. They sue a US company, IIRC.Jun 07 10:36
zoobab 07 10:36
schestowitzSame in China, regarding patent plague. The Economist has an article about it. Updegrove and GL cited it.Jun 07 10:36
schestowitz*look*Jun 07 10:37
zoobabFinjan is partially owned by Microsoft, which purchased a non-exclusive worldwide license for some Finjan patents last year.Jun 07 10:37
schestowitzThat's an older press releasee.Jun 07 10:37
zoobaburl?Jun 07 10:37
schestowitzWait..Jun 07 10:37
schestowitzHers's all I have in my DB: 07 10:38
zoobabI meants the article of the EconomistJun 07 10:38
schestowitzThe other problem is Symbian (DLL nonsense)Jun 07 10:39
zoobabwe are working on itJun 07 10:39
zoobabthe problem is to intervene in the caseJun 07 10:39
schestowitz 07 10:40
schestowitzDo you known Aidan?Jun 07 10:40
schestowitzknowJun 07 10:41
zoobabKatz?Jun 07 10:43
schestowitzWait, I can't remember. Will look at email...Jun 07 10:43
zoobabEFFJun 07 10:44
schestowitzMcGuireJun 07 10:44
schestowitzNo, FFII coordinator here.Jun 07 10:44
schestowitzI don't know him, but he's on the same mailing list.Jun 07 10:45
zoobabyes I know him  a bitJun 07 10:45
zoobabI meet him once at EupacoJun 07 10:45
zoobabmostly I know Gavin in the UKJun 07 10:45
zoobabGavin HillJun 07 10:46
schestowitzAh, him too.Jun 07 10:46
schestowitzWhat can one do to help fight swpatents?Jun 07 10:46
schestowitzI mean, other than the obvious.Jun 07 10:46
zoobabwellJun 07 10:47
zoobabI need some people to help collecting daily newsJun 07 10:48
zoobabit is a pain in the assJun 07 10:48
zoobaband we will need help for the new campaignJun 07 10:48
zoobabare you based in the UK?Jun 07 10:49
schestowitzOn patents, I'm fed by just a few sources (primarily your arsenal) because I focus on other things.Jun 07 10:49
schestowitzYes.Jun 07 10:49
zoobabLondon?Jun 07 10:49
schestowitzNo, Manchester.Jun 07 10:49
zoobabokJun 07 10:49
zoobabwe should met one dayJun 07 10:49
schestowitzMatt Lee is also here, but it's probably of no use.Jun 07 10:49
schestowitzThe FSFE was here a few yeasr back and I met them.Jun 07 10:50
zoobabFSFE are doing nothingJun 07 10:50
schestowitzOne issue to address less directly is not patents, but the corruption behind them.Jun 07 10:50
zoobabat least when it comes to swpatsJun 07 10:50
schestowitzThe UK is now sort of cracking down on lobbyists.Jun 07 10:50
schestowitzThey only expose it.Jun 07 10:51
zoobabwell, it is impossible to get rid of lobbyistsJun 07 10:51
schestowitzThe US only exposes a mere fraction.Jun 07 10:51
schestowitzBut... it's a loss cause there.Jun 07 10:51
zoobabit isJun 07 10:51
zoobabeven Hillary said she is taking money from lobbyistsJun 07 10:51
schestowitzAnd as ZiggyFish might know, his country too (AU) got infected by the swpats virus.Jun 07 10:51
zoobabbut Obama wants to refuseJun 07 10:51
ZiggyFishschestowitz: url =??Jun 07 10:52
schestowitzReally? I haven't followed that.Jun 07 10:52
zoobabare you on the list for the ukswpat Symbian case?Jun 07 10:52
schestowitzOh, it's old news, ZF. Been like this for a while, DMCA also.Jun 07 10:52
schestowitzCensorship... the whole US bundle.Jun 07 10:52
schestowitzNo, can you add me? Is it a high-volume list?Jun 07 10:53
zoobabnoJun 07 10:53
zoobabI will aslJun 07 10:53
zoobabaskJun 07 10:53
schestowitzNokia is thinking about putting the ** on Symbian and focusing on Linux.Jun 07 10:53
schestowitzIt denies this in The Register, but the trend seems telling.Jun 07 10:53
zoobabdo you know 07 10:54
schestowitzThey also embraced Qt (well, bought it) and mix it with Maemo and GTKJun 07 10:54
schestowitzThey want to battle Android and LiMo IMHOJun 07 10:54
schestowitzThe domain seems familiar, why?Jun 07 10:54
zoobabI saw some slides about smaller kernelsJun 07 10:55
schestowitzDoes it not exist already?Jun 07 10:55
zoobaband I am interested in small kernels because I am fitting openwrt in 2MB routersJun 07 10:56
zoobabwell, there are patches for recent 2.6.2x kernelsJun 07 10:56
schestowitzThere's a Linux that fits on 1.4 MB floppies.Jun 07 10:56
schestowitz2.4, I think.Jun 07 10:56
zoobabI have router with 2.4.20 on 1MB flashJun 07 10:56
zoobabI have 5 of thoseJun 07 10:56
zoobabbut I don't have time to port openwrtJun 07 10:57
schestowitzCan Vista and MinWin fit a 1MB flash?Jun 07 10:57
zoobab100MBJun 07 10:57
schestowitzWinMin?Jun 07 10:57
zoobabI heard 54MB for XP slimJun 07 10:57
zoobabstripped downJun 07 10:57
schestowitzWith and reedit.exe? :-)Jun 07 10:57
zoobabdon't knowJun 07 10:57
schestowitzsolitaire.exe and regedit.exe I meant.Jun 07 10:57
zoobabI don't care about windowsJun 07 10:57
schestowitzThe fast-boot thing and patch kernel without reboot  thing seems to have stepped on Bill's patents.Jun 07 10:58
schestowitzIt was discussed in their mailing llists, I think. Also in Slashdot. They contaminate everything, even low-level stuff.Jun 07 10:59
zoobabkexecJun 07 10:59
schestowitzYes.Jun 07 10:59
zoobabI have to try itJun 07 10:59
zoobabI want to use it for xterminalsJun 07 10:59
zoobablike you boot a minimal kernel, detect the hardware, and reboot another oneJun 07 10:59
schestowitzJust wait until...Jun 07 10:59
schestowitzNovell gives {Added Value]^TM with Microsoft-approved Linux kernels.Jun 07 11:00
schestowitzThat's the plan anyway. Dividing past the GPL with swpatsJun 07 11:01
zoobabwe should do the sameJun 07 11:01
zoobabpile up patents that MS infringes, and ask MS customers to buy a couponJun 07 11:01
schestowitzThen it would say that only the mythical SUSE kernel (bought from Novell) is 'covered'Jun 07 11:01
schestowitzIt won't work.Jun 07 11:01
zoobabnot if you buold a troll companyJun 07 11:02
zoobabwith 200 patents in therJun 07 11:02
schestowitzMhyrvold gets swpats from MS, then attacks. Linux' cost advantage.. gone!Jun 07 11:02
zoobabof courseJun 07 11:02
zoobabit is a mafiaJun 07 11:02
schestowitzin suitsJun 07 11:02
zoobabyopJun 07 11:02
schestowitzI fail to think of mitigation means other than  awareness or armageddon (see Economist again)Jun 07 11:03
zoobabthe best for us is product removal from the marketJun 07 11:04
zoobablike no Blackberry on the market anymoreJun 07 11:04
schestowitzThey should make a film: "When Software Met Political Corruption"Jun 07 11:04
zoobaband it will happenJun 07 11:04
schestowitzDeterrence? Joe Avergae won't give a SJun 07 11:04
zoobabI am thinking about a European Day against Software PatentsJun 07 11:04
zoobab6 of JulyJun 07 11:05
zoobabof 23 SeptemberJun 07 11:05
schestowitzBelgium?>Jun 07 11:05
schestowitzHere in the UK you wouldn't have anyone turning upJun 07 11:05
zoobabit is important to put the fire for the french presidencyJun 07 11:05
schestowitzThey bring brainwash to kids now.Jun 07 11:05
schestowitzMicrosoft invaded UK education as well. Patents and all...Jun 07 11:06
zoobabyes but we brainwash moreJun 07 11:06
schestowitzLet me find something...Jun 07 11:06
zoobabI have to clean my clothes todayJun 07 11:07
zoobablot of work to doJun 07 11:07
schestowitzOK, I'll catch you later.Jun 07 11:07
zoobabbtwJun 07 11:09
zoobabhttp://www.hackerspace.netJun 07 11:09
zoobabyou can comeJun 07 11:09
ZiggyFishis there an resources on the swpats virusJun 07 11:09
schestowitzWhat I was going to find is here:Jun 07 11:09
schestowitz Basically, it's about Microsoft seeing what's coming (FOSS everywhere) and planning to brainwash kids at school in order to find-tune perceptions.Jun 07 11:11
schestowitzZF, try DigitalMajority for news. I don't know sites with introduction, but watch the FFII video on YoutTube. Wait...Jun 07 11:12
ZiggyFishniceJun 07 11:12
zoobabit is always interesting to read MS SEC filingsJun 07 11:12
zoobabbecause they talk about swpatsJun 07 11:12
schestowitzI think that's the one: Jun 07 11:14
schestowitz 07 11:14
schestowitzThey also talk about lowered margins in this one, due to Free software (Linux is named). They warned investors before the last disappointing report.Jun 07 11:15
*ZiggyFish kicks him selfJun 07 11:19
ZiggyFishI was thinking swpats was a computer virus (i.e, a Trojan, like the ones you get on windows).Jun 07 11:20
schestowitzOh.Jun 07 11:21
ZiggyFishthat's why I wanted a link ;)Jun 07 11:24
schestowitzInI can give you a link to a virus too, but it might only work on IE/Win32.Jun 07 11:30
ZiggyFishlolJun 07 11:33
schestowitzI've just posted an item about opensuse 11.0Jun 07 11:35
schestowitzI wonder how to suppress its adoption on the day it's released. I got attacked when 10.3 came out.Jun 07 11:36
schestowitzI ought to do something creative to remind people why to avoid SUSE and then attract attention to it.Jun 07 11:36
ZiggyFishyeah, would help, also people can use it in SuSE battles :OJun 07 11:38
schestowitzI think I have an idea. If we could show people, using screenshots for example, that underneath the surface SUSE is identical to other distros, we could then encourage people to steer away from Novell and Microsoft.Jun 07 11:38
schestowitzIf one reader uses distro X, s/he can take a look at gallry of screenshots from OSuse 11 and then produce an almost identical one. The key message: OSUSE is just a copy of perfectly fine and FREE GNU/Linux dsitros.Jun 07 11:39
ZiggyFishyeah, also discuss alternatives (like Red hat Enterprise Linux for enterprise, and ubuntu for normal users).Jun 07 11:40
schestowitzSee 07 11:41
schestowitzUnrelated to this, the other day in a former Novell employee brought this up: 07 11:45
schestowitzOn mormon density at Novell.Jun 07 11:46
ZiggyFishlolJun 07 11:47
ZiggyFishSuSE I like th installerJun 07 11:48
ZiggyFishmandrake (when it was called that) 9 has a installer like thatJun 07 11:49
ZiggyFishanyway, getting tied, I'm off for the nightJun 07 11:56
ZiggyFishsee yaJun 07 11:56
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martinjh99Morning allJun 07 12:04
schestowitzHowdy.Jun 07 12:04
schestowitzMoments ago we discussed ways of explaining to people why they should steer away from OpenSUSE 11.0Jun 07 12:05
martinjh99Morning Roy - Like your website.  Interessting times we live in eh...Jun 07 12:05
schestowitzIt's release very soon and Novell will generate lots of hypeJun 07 12:05
schestowitzThanls.Jun 07 12:05
martinjh99I'm going to try the RC in a virtual machine.  Have a soft spot for Suse as it was my first Linux distro...  5.1 I think it was...Jun 07 12:05
martinjh99Personally going to stick with Kubuntu as my properly installed distro though.Jun 07 12:06
schestowitzNovell will use the installer to brag.Jun 07 12:07
schestowitzNever mind if it's a one-time shell.Jun 07 12:07
schestowitzYaST is another thing, but it's hardly needed most of the time. Isn't it fully GPLed by now?Jun 07 12:08
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martinjh99Sorry about that - Got disconnected!  Did I miss anything?Jun 07 12:14
schestowitzI think now. Last message was: "YaST is another thing, but it's hardly needed most of the time. Isn't it fully GPLed by now?"Jun 07 12:16
martinjh99Yast is yes AFAIK...  Not an expert on Suse by a long shot.Jun 07 12:17
schestowitzIt used to be closed-source.Jun 07 12:21
schestowitzI think it only gradually opened, but nobody else embraced this, so I wondered...Jun 07 12:22
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schestowitzI'm off for a few hours...Jun 07 12:49
martinjh99Same here - When's the best time to drop by..?Jun 07 12:49
schestowitzAny time almostJun 07 12:49
martinjh99when is it busier than it is now? ;)Jun 07 12:49
schestowitzWeekdays probablyJun 07 12:51
martinjh99Ah OK - Catch ya later!Jun 07 12:52
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schestowitzI've just taken Wikia search for a spin. It got pretty decent.Jun 07 16:42
jbhisn't that written in mono?Jun 07 16:58
jbhor use monoJun 07 16:59
jbhor somethingJun 07 16:59
schestowitzLucene as the engine? I don't know. I was surprised to see Yahoo! at the top (given its possible vocation)Jun 07 16:59
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jbhis mono on the wii true?Jun 07 17:21
jbhthey're trying to contaminate everything aren't they?Jun 07 17:22
schestowitzI've heard something from Miles about it a couple of days ago.Jun 07 17:24
schestowitzI can look up the details.Jun 07 17:24
jbhyea, that's the comment I just sawJun 07 17:25
schestowitzWell, it would be a tad problematic if Microsoft #1 console competitor became technically dependent (and legally too) on its opponent, but this is just homebrew/hacker/modding.Jun 07 17:25
schestowitzHi AndreasJun 07 17:26
jbh 07 17:27
jbhfound that after several pages of "Gutar Hero 3 + Mono sound"Jun 07 17:28
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jbhlooks like it might be a bit more than moddingJun 07 17:29
schestowitz*looks*Jun 07 17:29
jbhtrue, hard to tell for sureJun 07 17:29
schestowitzI'm looking at the URLJun 07 17:30
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jbh 07 17:31
jbhmentions that it uses mono for game scriptingJun 07 17:32
jbh".NET basedJun 07 17:32
jbhGame logic runs on the Open Source .NET platform, Mono. "Jun 07 17:32
schestowitz(interesting that OpenSUSE people join this channel (Andreas Stieger in this case)Jun 07 17:32
jbhI was wondering if he was from suseJun 07 17:33
schestowitzMiguel wanted to grab some space on Android OHA) as wellJun 07 17:33
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schestowitzReplacing Java VM with .NETty stuff.Jun 07 17:34
jbh 07 17:34
jbhyea, not surprisedJun 07 17:35
schestowitzSome Novell developers read as well, but that's another story. I don't believe it's well intended and I'm still hoping a group of them will fork and rescure S.u.S.E. so to speak.Jun 07 17:36
schestowitzRescue, I meanJun 07 17:36
jbhI never really liked SuSEJun 07 17:37
jbhtried 5.3 and didn't care for itJun 07 17:37
jbhbeen red hat and debian(based) sinceJun 07 17:37
jbh(running ubuntu right now)Jun 07 17:38
schestowitzGNOME?Jun 07 17:38
jbhyeaJun 07 17:38
schestowitzI was using GNOME exclusively for years, on top of Red Hat Linux.Jun 07 17:38
jbhsameJun 07 17:38
jbhI only tried ubuntu about a year or so ago and have been running it sinceJun 07 17:39
schestowitzAlso loved Enlightenment, but with SuSE I began using KDE more often, going back to my experiences with it in 2.x daysJun 07 17:39
jbhI never had the hardware to handle enlightenmentJun 07 17:41
schestowitzMandriva seems OK also and it's KDE-based. A friend sent me this E-mail the other day (he installed Mandriva. "Just tried out the Mandriva DVD, went like a dream. I kept my current partitions eg /root /boot /home /archive /backup /videos. Picked them up no problem. I would imagine the average user would have no problem in installing it. I do find the Mandriva specific msgs most help full. Obviously someone thought of the end users. Of courseJun 07 17:41
schestowitz what enduser has to install his own Windows from scratch nowadays. And of course with Mandriva you get a full office suite, media player etc, out of the box. With Windows you get a time limited etc. I accepted the default KDS/XPee lookalike desktop, next is to replace it with Xfce. One thing I noticed is that the USB is automatically picked up and a 'do you want to open a folder' msg pops up, just like XPee. Unlike, SuSE who helpfully disabJun 07 17:41
schestowitzled auto mounting of USB devices in V 10.2 or there abouts. Ubuntu I liked especially for the online forum, spent ages trying to get BBC videos to work, worked once and then didn't .. :) So the verdict is: Mandriva is most definitely ready for the desktop."Jun 07 17:41
schestowitzI'm not sure about Mandriva because of Mandbo though (Turbolinux colab).Jun 07 17:42
schestowitzManboJun 07 17:42
jbhahJun 07 17:42
schestowitzIt's a collaboration where they swap code and TL gets to see MS code I believe.Jun 07 17:43
jbhyea, that's badJun 07 17:44
schestowitzSpeaking of which...Jun 07 17:45
*moparx shakes his headJun 07 17:45
schestowitzUbuntu spoke to Microsoft about codecs (I'm not sure I'm allowed to say this)...Jun 07 17:45
jbhis there anything in place to prevent that code from making it back upstream?Jun 07 17:45
schestowitzWhich reminds me of the mind games they played with RHT before Global Desktop (probably) got canned.Jun 07 17:45
schestowitzThey use codecs for extortion and not so long ago Michael Gesit caught Microsoft sending propaganda to Feds for DMCA in Canada.Jun 07 17:46
schestowitzHours ago I found this:Jun 07 17:46
schestowitzRed Hat founder speaks against Canada's copyright reform ( )Jun 07 17:46
jbhthanks for the linkJun 07 17:48
schestowitzIs anyone you know from CA. There was some lobbying for ODF there at the time, but it wasn't too fruitful.Jun 07 17:49
schestowitzTIm Bray is from there, but there was no appeal.Jun 07 17:49
microsoft-spyschestowitz: you are allowed, Ubuntu licensed Windows Media from Microsoft for NetbooksJun 07 17:49
jbhI don't know anyone in CAJun 07 17:49
moparxI'll never understand why a distro (or any foss developer for that matter) would purposefully taint themselves for some of microsoft's proprietary scraps.Jun 07 17:50
schestowitzGah. Maybe that's why they don't allow downloads of it.Jun 07 17:52
schestowitzSoftware patents  aren't even valid where Canonical is.Jun 07 17:53
schestowitzms-spy, got a URL, please?Jun 07 17:53
jbhnever even heard of netbooks beforeJun 07 17:54
microsoft-spyschestowitz, how about ?Jun 07 17:54
schestowitzI believe this is important because given what I know I worry that MS (Mark S.) would do the same with MS for business 'enterprise' boxes.Jun 07 17:54
microsoft-spyschestowitz, MS does whatever benefits him, proprietary kernel parts etcJun 07 17:55
schestowitzWhich MS?Jun 07 17:55
schestowitz:-)Jun 07 17:56
microsoft-spyShuttleworthJun 07 17:56
schestowitzWell, that's very problematic because he enables Microsoft to control the price of Free software.Jun 07 17:56
schestowitzThey already cross-licence with Apple, but they play by their own rules.Jun 07 17:56
microsoft-spyhe just says "All the *applications* in Ubuntu are free software only."Jun 07 17:57
schestowitzCross-licensing (pardon the typo above) is incompatible with the GPL.Jun 07 17:58
schestowitzYes, but..Jun 07 17:58
microsoft-spyso does not include drivers, firmware, codecs, ...Jun 07 17:58
schestowitzJust to be clear, the issue is not binary/FOSS, but gratis/taxedJun 07 17:58
schestowitzThis forbids redistribution, which is also why they don't permit downloads. It's like another Moonlight.Jun 07 17:59
jbhI'm no longer having warm fuzzies about ubuntu :\Jun 07 18:02
jbhmight have to switch back to fedoraJun 07 18:04
*moparx prefers Slackware & Arch GNU/LinuxJun 07 18:05
schestowitzHeh.Jun 07 18:05
jbhI used to run slackware (my first distro) but it was too much work to maintainJun 07 18:06
schestowitzWell, it'll be interesting to so how different people respond. Some months ago Red Hat's CEO sort of mocked Ubuntu for their handling of codecs.Jun 07 18:06
jbhwhich is my favorite part of ubuntuJun 07 18:06
schestowitzThere's always Debian, I guess, but it doesn't come with the same tools. Then, there'e Mint. What would MS+MS (on codecs) mean to a project like Linux Mint?Jun 07 18:07
moparxmint has mono if I recall correctlyJun 07 18:08
jbhso does every distroJun 07 18:08
moparxinstalled by default I meanJun 07 18:08
moparxmy distros don't :pJun 07 18:08
schestowitzEvery Ubuntu derivative wouldJun 07 18:08
schestowitz.Jun 07 18:08
moparxahJun 07 18:08
schestowitzThat's why it ought to be nuked at the Debian branch.Jun 07 18:09
schestowitzA prominent Debian dev has been E-mailing me about it. He wants Mono out.Jun 07 18:09
jbhwhen can we expect it to be removed?Jun 07 18:10
schestowitzUbuntu sets a dangerous example here. What's next? Licensing for MOOX?Jun 07 18:10
schestowitzDe facto standards with tax or RAND are GPL poison. They forbid redistribution.Jun 07 18:11
zoobabthis is pretty astonishingJun 07 18:16
zoobabthat Ubuntu licences patents for mp3Jun 07 18:17
schestowitzIn the UK even.Jun 07 18:17
jbhschestowitz: why are distros shipping mono, then?Jun 07 18:18
jbharen't they then breaking the law?Jun 07 18:18
schestowitzThen again, the bribery-loving, charity-killing Intel that they do bizniz withJun 07 18:18
schestowitzWith Mono it's different (compared to MP3)Jun 07 18:19
schestowitzThere's no licensing and there's no actual code involved. It's to do primarily with : 1) technical dependency; 2) RAND; 3) No legal promise; 4) patentsJun 07 18:20
schestowitzDoes this form of codec tax therefore affect all netbooks? What about Linpus ones?Jun 07 18:21
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EruaranMicrosoft is using the European Championship to spread its malwareJun 07 18:50
Eruaran 07 18:50
schestowitzThat was predictable. Will Ubuntu license that too? Oh, I guess he can't. There's no Silverlight for Linux. *sigh*Jun 07 18:55
EruaranWell there's Anakin de Icaza's Moonlight... if you're a Novell customer...Jun 07 18:59
schestowitzI'l; write a post about it in a moment. Maybe attach a picture of a toilet seat to Silverlight or something. That's where it belongs. :-)Jun 07 19:02
EruaranyesJun 07 19:02
microsoft-spyEruaran, Moonlight can use GStreamer and FFmpegJun 07 19:03
schestowitzWill Microsoft's partners not use forbidden codecs?Jun 07 19:03
schestowitzWhat about the legal issues?Jun 07 19:03
EruaranIt will be a cold day in hell before I ever use MoonlightJun 07 19:04
schestowitzIt's the Flash mess all over again, only worse because it's anti-Linux at the same time.Jun 07 19:07
moparx*nod*Jun 07 19:07
schestowitzA few moment ago I received a go-ahead from my editor at Datamation to write an article about OLPC and FOSS. Remember what stood in the way? Remember Flash/gnash?Jun 07 19:08
EruaranyesJun 07 19:11
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EruaranbblJun 07 19:23
schestowitzDon't forget that Flash is spyware so those custo...errr... kids will be probably spied on for ad revenue and all sorts of similar childhood 'joys'Jun 07 19:24
jbh 07 19:41
jbhthat's a bit alarmingJun 07 19:42
jbhluckily C# is still the least voted forJun 07 19:42
schestowitzI haven't seen it yet (will look in a moment), but Microsoft was caught in the past gaming polls (e.g. .NET vs Java). Its employees bombarded a poll.Jun 07 19:44
schestowitzSome suspect that they do the same in Ubuntu BrainstormJun 07 19:45
jbhohJun 07 19:45
schestowitzI was shown example, e.g. demands for SiilverlightJun 07 19:46
schestowitzMicrosoft employees also promote Silverlight in ZDNet comments (at the least, based on proven examples). Remember that it's the company which hires another to fake support letter from dead people (2001). It did the same recently in various occasions for OOXML.Jun 07 19:48
jbhwowJun 07 19:49
schestowitzMalaysia schools, Denmark partners, India NGOs, ISO (Lisa Rajchel), probably more. And that excludes the stuffing.Jun 07 19:51
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tessierThe Phoenix lander runs Linux? That is so col.Jun 07 21:53
tessiercoolJun 07 21:53
schestowitzI'm not sure. Someone in COLA begged to differ. Anyway, I'm tired. I'll be back later.Jun 07 21:54
tessierVxWorks is indeed not Linux.Jun 07 21:56
tessierI'm not sure where the blogger got the info.Jun 07 21:56
tessierWindRiver makes an RTOS Linux that could be usedJun 07 21:56
tessierAlthough I'm not sure there is a Linux based VxWorksJun 07 21:56
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Recent Techrights' Posts

[Meme] Community of People to be Exploited, Then Thrown Away, Left Behind or Even Slandered front page
Alexandre Oliva's FSF disposition
During my recent trip for LibrePlanet, I was fortunate to have, or at least start, long conversations with nearly everyone in FSF staff
One More (Failed) Attempt to Deplatform the Sites by Harassing and Threatening Webhosts
What we're seeing here is a person who abuses the system in Canada at Canadian taxpayers' expense trying to do the same in the UK, at British taxpayers' expense
12 Days Have Passed Since the Edward Brocklesby Revelations and Debian Project Has Said Absolutely Nothing About That
One must therefore assume they have nothing to say in their defence (covering up severe security failings)
Hostageware: The Threat of Clown Computing (or 'SaaS', Another Misnomer or Buzzword) to Computer Users Everywhere
This problem isn't limited to Free software adopters
Jean-Pierre Giraud, Possible Forgeries & Debian: elections, judgments, trademark already canceled, archaeologist
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Six on the Beach: After Losing Six Continents Microsoft is Losing Oceania Too
Based on the 6- or 7-continent view of the world
Links 17/06/2024: Mass Layoffs Accelerating in Tech, Concerns About Impact of the Net
Links for the day
Gemini Links 17/06/2024: Hyprland Analysed and No Use for Betrusted
Links for the day
Microsoft Can Never Make a Comeback Anymore, the Community is Shutting It Out
We're relying on the real community, not fake ones or coopted ones
The World is Becoming (or Has Already Become) Linux
An intercontinental success story
Georgia: Bing Share Fell by Half Since 'Bing Chat' (LLM Hype), Fell Behind Yandex As Well
Georgia's situation is interesting
[Meme] SPI and 'FSFE': Sponsored by Microsoft to...
women's instincts do not matter to these strongmen
[Meme] Shitburger of an LLM
IBM and the Hololens
Links 17/06/2024: Chatbot Nonsense Thrown Under the Bus (Severe Failure, Pure Hype), How to Finance Free Software 'Hackers'
Links for the day
Debian's Personal Attacks Are Upsetting Women, Too
Female Debian Developer: "I Believe Daniel [Pocock] is On the Right Track."
Microsoft's Bing is So Irrelevant in Moldova (1%) That Russia's Yandex is About 5 Times Bigger
How much longer before Microsoft throws in the towel?
Yes, You Can
Unless you live somewhere like Russia...
[Meme] Listen to the Experts
Bill Gates didn't even finish university]
Roy and Rianne's Righteously Royalty-free RSS Reader (R.R.R.R.R.R.) and the Front-End Interfaces
As the Web deteriorates the availability, quality and prevalence of RSS feeds is not improving, to put it mildly
Algeria Shows High GNU/Linux and Android Adoption, All-Time High and Almost Three-Quarters of Web Requests
GNU/Linux was below 3%, now it is above 3%
Mass Layoffs at Microsoft-owned GitHub (About 80 Percent of the Staff in India Laid Off)
It's not just in India
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Sunday, June 16, 2024
IRC logs for Sunday, June 16, 2024
Gemini Links 16/06/2024: Scarecrows, Moles, Ham Radio, and No IPs
Links for the day
Africa is Android and Green (Chrome, Not Just Android Logo)
In Africa Firefox is almost below 1% now
Coercion From the "Consent" and "CoC" Crowd is a Self-Defeating Tactic
Freedom of the press; Nothing less
Covering Abuses and Corruption
We'll never surrender to blackmail
According to statCounter, GNU/Linux Increased From 3.77% to 3.89% This Month (Worldwide), Windows Now Below 20% in 78 Nations, Below 10% in 27 Nations
Highest since March (for GNU/Linux)
Ubuntu Running Out of Energy
Its planet too is deteriorating
Links 16/06/2024: In Defence of Email and Why Recycling Symbol Lost All Meaning
Links for the day
Gemini Links 16/06/2024: Computer Science Course Union and Potentiometer
Links for the day
Cross border crime: sale of Swiss insurance in France and European Union without authorisation
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Letting Microsoft systemd Manage /home Was a Terrible Idea All Along
systemd-tmpfiles, deleting /home
Patriotism is OK, But We Need Facts and Reason, Not Blind Obedience to Authority
Very seldom in the history of human civilisation has groupthink proven to be of real merit
When You Touch One of Us You Touch All of Us
We have a principled, uncompromising stance on this matter
Links 16/06/2024: New Sanctions Against Russia, Fentanylware (TikTok) Causing More Problems
Links for the day
Social Control Media in Japan: Twitter (X) Has Collapsed, YouTube Rising (Apparently)
What a genius Mr. Musk is!
Windows Cleansed in South Africa (Already Hovering Around 10% Market Share)
Plus Microsoft's mass layoffs in Africa
[Meme] Satya Nadella's Windows PC RECALLS Not What He Did
Satya got lucky
Usage of Let's Encrypt in Geminispace Has Collapsed (That's a Good Thing!)
Ideally, or eventually, all capsules will sign their own certificates or have their own CA
North Macedonia: Windows Down From 99.2% to 28.5%
Last year it was even measured at 26%
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Saturday, June 15, 2024
IRC logs for Saturday, June 15, 2024
Gemini Links 16/06/2024: Hand Held Maneuvering Unit and Hugo Static Files
Links for the day