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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 18th, 2008

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dsmith_interestig tidbitAug 18 05:27
dsmith_http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/chinese-sof...Aug 18 05:28
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schestowitzInteresting new article about self-fulfilling prophecy from Gartner: http://www.serverwatch.com/hrevi... Not sure what to make of it...Aug 18 09:02
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ZiggyfishheyAug 18 10:25
schestowitzHey there. I've just posted some stuff. What's up?Aug 18 10:26
ZiggyfishWhat was link again to the vid you have me last week, were that guy was talking about the govAug 18 10:29
schestowitzOh, wait..Aug 18 10:31
schestowitzhttp://lessig.org/blog/2008/07/ne...Aug 18 10:31
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PetoKraushm, i almost forgotAug 18 12:01
PetoKrausi've had a talk with former head of oracle slovakiaAug 18 12:01
schestowitzAnd they open-source everything? :-DAug 18 12:02
PetoKraus:D not really, just got a phone, gimme secAug 18 12:03
PetoKrausit was private talksAug 18 12:04
PetoKrausduh phone again!Aug 18 12:04
PetoKrauswe were talking about gnu and stuff... he being part of that old business model which was in slovakia hereAug 18 12:06
PetoKrausmeaning - quite liking google and online products, not really caring about them being or not being open.Aug 18 12:06
PetoKrausthe main point was, though, that he was pissed off at vista licensing stuff - that part about changing your computerAug 18 12:06
PetoKraus(if you change X% of your PC's hardware, you are fucked)Aug 18 12:07
schestowitzPeople actually adopt Vista?Aug 18 12:07
PetoKrausthough, he said, that "i am gonna hack" (meaning, that he's willing to use pirated software)Aug 18 12:07
PetoKrausi dunno, i understood that he uses still XPAug 18 12:08
kentmaschestowitz: some will have little or no choice, as always.Aug 18 12:08
schestowitzOracle must use just GNU/Linux to weaken Microsoft, its main rival perhaps. Ellison has already realised this, so he treats Windows as secondary.Aug 18 12:08
schestowitzAdobe needs to just use GNU/Linux too in order to bypass a Microsoft dependecy. http://digg.com/linux_unix/How_...Aug 18 12:08
PetoKraushe was an "Alliance&Channel Manager" thoughAug 18 12:09
PetoKrausif adobe opensourced... man.Aug 18 12:10
schestowitzNokia and others went out of their way with phones in order to avoid Microsoft making the rules. Oracle should do the same. IBM took a step further with this in LinuxWorld (promoting Linux PCs)Aug 18 12:10
PetoKrauslgpl would be great for flash player, wouldn't itAug 18 12:10
PetoKrausit was just funny to hear from a... wealthy old guy, that he'd resort to use pirated software just to bypass those annoying MS checksAug 18 12:12
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PetoKrausthough the "old business mentality" in here is still quite... reluctant to adopt FOSS as competetive alternative.Aug 18 12:13
PetoKrausi give it 15 years. by then, today's graduates will get into manager positions and will actually decide upon the business models and solutions.Aug 18 12:13
schestowitzIt probably will happen father though.Aug 18 12:14
schestowitz*fasterAug 18 12:14
PetoKrausi mean, in slovakia. we are conservative.Aug 18 12:14
schestowitzJust look at the economic impact and how it changes people's judgment. Is Slovakia affected by the global recession?Aug 18 12:14
PetoKrausit'll be soon. Eurozone.Aug 18 12:15
PetoKrauswe've had +10%net GDP last year, economical boomAug 18 12:15
PetoKraus(yeah. Right-wing govt invited automobile factories, which will soon outsource farther to the East, after the tax bonus period ends. not a long-term solution, not a long-sustainable growth.)Aug 18 12:16
schestowitzSo no apparenti impact yet. I imagine that over year unemployment is rising (I haven't checked) while prices soar. It's probably worse in the US.Aug 18 12:16
PetoKrausit'll hit the european fan soon.Aug 18 12:17
PetoKrausadopting euro this year was, probably, not very good decision... :DAug 18 12:17
schestowitzThat is bound to affect many things. Microsoft thinks that now only it can raise prices but that it can also force people to buy new PCs.Aug 18 12:18
schestowitz*not onlyAug 18 12:18
kentma:-DAug 18 12:19
kentmasorry - smiley testing :-)Aug 18 12:19
schestowitzDisruptive technology can ride on the back of economic disruption when it occurs, I think. Based on what I've read, IT budgets (in the US at least) are lowered, so surely that translates into exploring cheaper options... freedom arguments aside.Aug 18 12:19
PetoKrausyou know, the funny thing isAug 18 12:21
PetoKrausadobe doesn't need to port PS to linuxAug 18 12:21
PetoKrausjust plugin interoperability with GIMP would be enoughAug 18 12:21
PetoKraus(reading the "how adobe can stop msft" article)Aug 18 12:22
schestowitzWell, it already works with Wine, but it's probably not the same experience.Aug 18 12:23
schestowitzBTW: A corrupt system that thrives is unlikely to see an end. When things go badly, people demand change. That's why a poor economy is likely yo motivate people to explore the ills in the way industry works. Just watch those new complaints about corruption in procurement.Aug 18 12:23
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mib_3u3e5jyellow!Aug 18 12:34
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twitterGood morning.  Reading to catch up.Aug 18 16:21
twitterOh no, schestowitz.  Do NOT LET THE TROLLS TELL YOU WHAT TO DO.  They will continue to slander you but will have an easier time if you give them less to work with.Aug 18 16:21
twitterI like your OOXML roll up.Aug 18 16:22
schestowitztwitter: what trolls are you referring to?Aug 18 16:22
twitterWhen you said, "I stopped with certain types of submission. I got slandered and abused like hell. I still do, but less because the content is not provocative," I cringed.  Shut up is exactly what they seek.Aug 18 16:23
schestowitzRegarding OOXML, I say what others want to say but cannot because of their affiliation (LF, IBM, Sun, Google, whatever). The press won't say it either because accusations against Microsoft get it in trouble (not just libel, but also conflict with advertisers).Aug 18 16:24
schestowitzYes, I know.Aug 18 16:24
twitterIt's good to be careful, like you are, but it's not good to self censor.Aug 18 16:24
schestowitzI'm mostly referring to criminal evidence against Microsoft which I posted to Digg. Some of it made the front page and then got wide media coverage.Aug 18 16:25
twitterEvidence is good.Aug 18 16:25
schestowitzWhat tha?? http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/... (I thought they had already joined... /before/ Adobe)Aug 18 16:25
twitterYou find, tie together and present a lot of it.Aug 18 16:26
schestowitzYes, twitter, I'll carry on doing that. In case I ever quit doing this, I want people to have access to stuff that I found. Shane could also pick it up where I left... in case I change paths... I'm confident that I'll carry on for another year.Aug 18 16:27
twitterCoolAug 18 16:27
twitterAdvertising budgets ... the end of M$ comes when they run out of money to buy the press.Aug 18 16:28
schestowitzBTW, for the first time in a long time, Tom Adestein made a public post. He used to write a lot about Linux and Microsoft and he's now job hunting  (career change), I think.Aug 18 16:29
schestowitzPeter Galli too just BLOOP! Vanished when eWeek (Ziff Davis) declared bankruptcy. SJVN survived in other sites.Aug 18 16:30
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schestowitzHeh. Here's just what I thought: http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2008/0... "Shocking in that Ubuntu is one of the most hyped (if not THE most) of all Linux distributions and Canonical was NOT previously a member of the Linux Foundation. "Aug 18 16:33
schestowitzHere's an interesting comment about GNU/Linux desktop market share: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.p...Aug 18 16:46
*libervisco_ is now known as liberviscoAug 18 16:53
twitterThere's an installfest at the CCCC tonight, so I'm going to get another first hand look at Ubuntu.  I was not all that impressed two or three years ago and stuck with Debian.Aug 18 16:58
schestowitzJust Ubuntu?Aug 18 16:58
twitterThey are doing Ubuntu and PCLinuxOS.  Not my choices .... I'll be happy to give Debian to anyone who wants it but the class will teach from one or the other of those.Aug 18 17:00
twitterThere's not much difference between Debian and Ubuntu from an operational perspective, so the classes should apply equally to both.Aug 18 17:00
schestowitzMandriva is similar to PCLOS. Fedora I'm not 100% sure about because of the setup curve (freedom value is stronger)Aug 18 17:00
twitterCCCC Newbies take time to value freedom.Aug 18 17:01
twitterRecently, I discovered Ubuntu is free of insane US distribution laws so that a lot of US banned software is available.  This is good for things like MythTV.Aug 18 17:02
schestowitzYes, you 'seed' the skills and understanding. You show the (wo)man how to fish (or give a rod) and that person can then do the same for self *and* others.Aug 18 17:02
twitterSooner or later, most free software users learn to value freedom above $40 network cards and fancy graphics.Aug 18 17:04
schestowitzIs it true to say that gaming hit a performance/wow factor barrier some years back? If so, it's good news.Aug 18 17:05
twitterI'm not sure about that generally.  People at the CCCC are older, but non free gaming on GNU/Linux has been good for years.Aug 18 17:06
twitterSome gamers I know are interested in GNU/Linux for the "absurdly" lower hardware requirements, but I did not follow up on that.Aug 18 17:07
schestowitz...Assuming your shelf of games if empty. That said, binary rot/obsolescence occurs also with Vista.Aug 18 17:07
twitterIt's less of a concern anyway because gamers should be moving to consoles.Aug 18 17:08
schestowitz"You get what you pay for"; "if it's not broken, don't fix it"; "If many people use it, it must be good..."  We have many misconceptions to fight. The media helps not.Aug 18 17:08
twitterFree gaming will come with free 3D acceleration.Aug 18 17:08
twitterPeople understand the "cleanness" of free software.Aug 18 17:09
twitterI'm always reminded of the importance of software freedom when I try to upgrade a fancier distribution.Aug 18 17:09
schestowitzConsoles have evolved very little. Many of us used the same controllers as kids and FPSes have been around before I had pubes. :-) Not so much has evolved other than the number of rendered polygons. Wii is pushing in interesting directions though.Aug 18 17:09
twitterEven an easy distribution like Mepis is a pain because you have to follow the CD with half a dozen applications you want.Aug 18 17:10
schestowitzI never had such problems.Aug 18 17:11
twitterI have yet to see something as easy as Debian's "apt-get upgrade"Aug 18 17:11
schestowitzClean install is not hard, provided you know what you need and have a near package manager.Aug 18 17:12
twitterIt's not that big a problem, but a binary wipe from a CD is only a 15 minute job when you don't want a bunch of programs that are not on the CD.Aug 18 17:12
schestowitzI was disappointed at times with YaST in SUSE 8.1, but apt-get was a real step up. Mandriva's package management hasn't failed on me, either. Except for when I shuffled some kernels and before I installed the old one back. Big mistake that was.. my own mistake.Aug 18 17:13
twitterGranted, I do the same thing with a clean Debian install, but that gives me additional control and choice a Live CD does not.  The upgrade route starts to look good when you have a lot of not so usual applications you like.  dist-upgrade is great.Aug 18 17:14
schestowitzIs MEPIS still maintained? Warren gave mixed messages the last time I heard.Aug 18 17:15
twitterHis latest is newer than what I've got installed for the wife.  Don't take my complaints to seriously, I'm just dreading that extra work.Aug 18 17:16
twitterFlash broke on her laptop, I'm not sure why, so it's time to upgrade it.Aug 18 17:17
twitterWhen I do, I'm going to have to follow up with Gqview and a bunch of other programs I can't remember right now.Aug 18 17:17
schestowitzFlash has been good to me on this box.Aug 18 17:18
twitterI hate flash.Aug 18 17:18
twitterI don't even like Gnash much.Aug 18 17:19
schestowitzMy experience really varies, but in general, I can't complain much about Flash. It isn't mint on Windows either, I'd imagine (occasional if rare crashes). Adobe is said to be likely to go FOSS with Flash at some stage.Aug 18 17:19
twitterFlash sucks down older machines.  A PIII is great without it but just barely usable with it.Aug 18 17:20
schestowitzBut to be fair, the source for this is the gnash developers, who have recently received some specs (Screen). I put this one in the FP of Digg (John owns me one!): http://digg.com/linux_unix/How_Ado...Aug 18 17:20
twitterIt would be a great thing if Adobe liberated flash.  Improvements would still take time.Aug 18 17:21
schestowitzI'm not sure if the Web needs Flash though. Well, Google not indexed Flash based on these specs, but that's a Web that's owned by a vendor. HTML has no owner.Aug 18 17:23
schestowitz*nowAug 18 17:23
twitterI'm not sure how well Gnash works now because I avoid flash sites.  It will take years for me to discover and use them.  Right now, I have is installed but I also have a gnash/knash kill button on my desktop.Aug 18 17:23
twitterThat's for a newer, 64bit dual core AMDAug 18 17:24
schestowitzMy latest one is also 64bit dual core AMD.Aug 18 17:24
twitterVista's failure has been good for cheaper hardware.  :)Aug 18 17:25
schestowitzAnyway... about OOXML, watch this comment: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_stor...Aug 18 17:25
schestowitz'The appeals procedure vote was set up so that there were two different questions, passage required the proper combination of yes and no votes from 2/3 of the voting blocks. A nicely rigged system. Quick synopsis of the vote procedure:"Heads I win, Tails you lose."'Aug 18 17:25
schestowitzGood to see the C word (corruption coming up to back me up): 'This will not help the standards bodies at all. Several of the National bodies are already calling for a change in the rules to keep this from happening again. A good case study in corruption in action'Aug 18 17:25
schestowitzhttp://www.linuxtoday.com/news_sto... : 'It seems that the vast majority intended to vote however Microsoft threatened/cajoled/bribed them rather than asserting their actual national sovereignty. Nothing misinterpreted here, simply dollars (and possibly prettied-up physical threats) at work here.'Aug 18 17:26
schestowitzhttp://www.linuxtoday.com/news_stor... : 'It seems that the vast majority intended to vote for prosecuting the appeals rather than denying them, but were misinterpreting the meaning of their vote.'Aug 18 17:26
twitterHas anyone done another appeal yet?Aug 18 17:28
schestowitzNot that I know of. It's hopeless. I want to see the SWAT team taking over, not some words in letters. Bryden hides behind a polished blue logo of "ISO", thinking it a shield against accusations of corruption. He knows damn well that they were gamed. I hear that the UN is the same, but I can't tell this based on anything I saw personally. Aug 18 17:29
schestowitzI could use some help with http://boycottnovell.com/come...Aug 18 17:34
schestowitzA friend asked me: "Can you find out the name of the original PDF this quote comes from (I think I sent it to you). I'm putting it up on Microsoft_Windows. It don't matter how many time they say it , 'WindowsNT not designed for the Internet'... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro... .. see the new image, I did that .. "Aug 18 17:34
schestowitzAnother competing service has just been defeated by the passing of new Draconian laws by a rival: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/200... That's why campaigns against software patents are  a priority Aug 18 17:46
schestowitzFront pager moments ago... http://digg.com/linux_unix/10_Re...Aug 18 18:16
twitterThat quote does not ring a bell.Aug 18 18:20
schestowitzWe need more of these antitrust exhibits as plain text so that they are searchable, with the source scan identifiable to serve as proof.Aug 18 18:22
twitterI understand.  It's a valuable resource.  Isn't that already happening?Aug 18 18:24
twitterThat Ars Technia article is weak.  It glosses over CC and other free media being taxed.Aug 18 18:26
twitterActually, it does not mention that at all.Aug 18 18:26
schestowitzNot quite. Slated.org needs people to fetch the text. The scans are poor, some say deliberately. Either way, Microsoft rewrites history using its budget, so it needs to be stopped with good ammunition like those memos. Groklaw has the text of this: http://www.groklaw.net/p...Aug 18 18:27
twitterGiving a private company control like that is outrageous.Aug 18 18:27
twitterYes, poor quality pdf is a favorite obfuscation tool.  Corrupt government officials have picked up the trick too.Aug 18 18:29
schestowitzWell, but it's the lawyers who scanned it, not Microsoft.Aug 18 18:31
schestowitzVis-a-vis govt', this one showed up the other day: One Man's Fight to Open Government Data - http://www.linuxinsider.com... - "Perry's office automatically deletes virtually all its e-mails every seven days, according to the Dallas Morning News."Aug 18 18:33
twitterThose emails are public records.  Deleting them is a crime, at least it is in Louisiana.Aug 18 18:34
schestowitzFull circle: How Microsoft is trying to eradicate email - http://weblog.infoworld.com/v...Aug 18 18:36
schestowitzMicrosoft dirty tricks, part two (Bob Cringely) - http://www.technologyevangelist...Aug 18 18:36
schestowitz"In May 2004, Judge J. Frederick Motz ordered Microsoft to investigate Burst.com's claim that, in 2000, Allchin ordered Microsoft employees to destroy email after 30 days and not to archive their email, suggesting that this deletion policy might be an effort to eliminate material that would later be damaging in court."Aug 18 18:36
schestowitz"This case was settled out of court in March 2005, with Microsoft agreeing to pay Burst.com $60 million for nonexclusive rights to Burst.com's media player software." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J...Aug 18 18:36
schestowitzBush team deletes embarrassing emails http://www.theinquirer.net/defau...Aug 18 18:36
schestowitzAMD: Intel Destroyed Evidence in Antitrust Case - http://www.dailytech.com/a...Aug 18 18:36
schestowitzIntel's anti-trust memos started vanishing from the top - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/0...Aug 18 18:36
schestowitzLenovo got financial help from Intel, claim - http://www.theinquirer.net/default.asp...Aug 18 18:36
schestowitzInvestors sue Dell on payments from Intel: WSJ - http://www.marketwatch.com/news/st...Aug 18 18:36
schestowitzHmmmmmm.... new anti-FOSS article with biased figures in the Wintel press (BW):  http://www.businessweek.com/technolog...Aug 18 18:37
schestowitzThey don't tell you that OSS VC is at an all-time high. They pick only the years that match their hypothesis (that OSS is bad for business).Aug 18 18:38
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schestowitzInteresting. Gagging...  http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/...Aug 18 19:16
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trmancohttp://www.electronista.com/arti...Aug 18 19:34
schestowitzYes, there's another one from Taiwan. Bloomberg now has an article about it, not just the Taiwanese press.Aug 18 19:35
trmanconiceAug 18 19:36
trmancowhere can I find the bloomberg feed?Aug 18 19:37
schestowitzLet me find the article.Aug 18 19:37
schestowitzI can't find the Blloomberg one, but there's also this http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/ne... and this < http://www.computerworld.com/action/ar... >Aug 18 19:39
trmancothanksAug 18 19:48
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PetoKraushelloAug 18 21:46
schestowitzHey, PetoKraus, what's up?Aug 18 21:46
PetoKrausgot an ideaAug 18 21:47
PetoKrausi guess i'll do some kind of... european watchAug 18 21:47
PetoKrausfor our country.Aug 18 21:47
PetoKrausslovakia, i meanAug 18 21:47
schestowitzA Web site?Aug 18 21:48
PetoKrausi've been talking with some people tonight, and i guess i know what's the biggest problem of our people - complete lack of informationAug 18 21:48
PetoKrausso the idea is to... provide slovaks with information what's going on in EU, in slovak, with referencesAug 18 21:48
schestowitzYes, that too. See this on gagging: http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/20...Aug 18 21:49
PetoKrausonce it gains momentum - include interviews with MP'sAug 18 21:49
schestowitzWhat CMS?Aug 18 21:49
PetoKrausand include means of... you know, feedbackAug 18 21:49
PetoKrausschestowitz: that's details. i wanna something which is secure, portableAug 18 21:49
PetoKrausbasically both - https web based, and standalone appAug 18 21:50
PetoKrauscustom XML language, with parser, translating to ODF and HTMLAug 18 21:50
PetoKrausbut that's really details.Aug 18 21:50
PetoKrausthe main point is funding of the interviewers/journalistsAug 18 21:50
PetoKrauscause no one will work for you for freeAug 18 21:51
schestowitzI tried to find ODF converters for HTML. I tried this in 2007, but there was only one _in planning_Aug 18 21:51
schestowitzI know about ODF @ WWW (or something like this), but it's the opposite. ODF -> (X)HTMLAug 18 21:51
schestowitzForget about making money running a site.Aug 18 21:52
PetoKrausthe funding - since it can be... shown like access to information and stuff, i might get an EU grantAug 18 21:52
PetoKrausor some governmential support... whateverAug 18 21:52
PetoKrausof course, non-profitAug 18 21:52
schestowitzBN.com just pays Shane the hosting bills using AdSense... and he has some left to burn CDs of his distro and give it to teachers.Aug 18 21:52
PetoKrauswell, bn.com is more specialisedAug 18 21:52
PetoKrausi would like to stock all info which is going on in EU in thereAug 18 21:53
PetoKrausnot only IT relatedAug 18 21:53
schestowitzAt best, if you're lucky, you get ibiblio hosting with a free AMD server (well, that's GPL)Aug 18 21:53
schestowitz*GLAug 18 21:53
PetoKrausi don't need hosting... i have that, i can fund that. I can't fund people to write for meAug 18 21:53
schestowitzI thought you wanted to accumulate examples of misconduct... like Wikileaks.Aug 18 21:53
schestowitzSome people write for free. Reporters are rarely in it for the money.Aug 18 21:54
PetoKrausnot only misconduct, i would like to present the work of our MP's to slovak people, and what is going on in the EU to the peopleAug 18 21:54
PetoKraussince i know that many people would say NO, if they knew that some things are happeningAug 18 21:54
schestowitzIf there's nothing like this already, there must be a place for it.Aug 18 21:55
PetoKrausit reminds me of douglas adams... "you have had enough time to appeal for destruction of the Earth - the notice was displayed in the land's office of your region for 20 years"Aug 18 21:55
PetoKrausyou know, if you can't reach the information, you can't appealAug 18 21:56
schestowitzWhen Shane started BN, there were only some open letters in sites, but no other site has really covered what developed to be larger and ended with a patent nuclear threat in May 2007.Aug 18 21:56
PetoKrausi'll have to put it into conceptAug 18 21:56
schestowitzYes, but how big is the media you compete with --- to deliver info?Aug 18 21:56
PetoKrausthere is no media delivering infoAug 18 21:56
PetoKrausthat's the pointAug 18 21:57
schestowitzNot even local papers?Aug 18 21:57
PetoKrausno!Aug 18 21:57
PetoKrausyou don't know a fucking thing about what slovak MP's doAug 18 21:57
PetoKrauswhich is a bit tragicalAug 18 21:57
PetoKraus(i am talking about EP now)Aug 18 21:58
schestowitzWell, just remember not to step into this hoping for income. I don't know how people actually manage to run sites and claim profits.Aug 18 21:58
*self_liar (i=bd121f50@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-09c4704ba702b257) has joined #boycottnovellAug 18 21:58
schestowitzI think there were some stories about Slovakia and OOXML... the usual stuff. MPs like the low profiles... serves them well... room for mischief.Aug 18 21:58
PetoKrauswell, i am willing to spend my money on it to make it work, and to get some grants to start it offAug 18 21:58
self_liaranother mono lover?Aug 18 21:58
self_liarhttp://jeffreystedfast.blogspot.com/2008/08/...Aug 18 21:58
PetoKrausi don't intend to make money off information serviceAug 18 21:59
schestowitzHaha. Jeffery mocked me... he should work for Ballmer.Aug 18 21:59
schestowitz*JeffreyAug 18 22:00
PetoKrausthough, i realise it can be hard to find people who'll read article in foreign language and be able to objectively translate that to slovakAug 18 22:00
PetoKrausand comment on thatAug 18 22:00
schestowitzPetoKraus: how to make a living while writing? I ask this because I have a similar dilemma.Aug 18 22:00
self_liarheheAug 18 22:00
PetoKrausschestowitz: i don't want to write myself, that's the pointAug 18 22:00
PetoKrausi am a chemist, and i'd like to stay at thatAug 18 22:00
schestowitzWell, so you look for cheap/free labour. It's easier said than done.Aug 18 22:01
PetoKrausyes, that's what i am talking aboutAug 18 22:01
PetoKrauspeople of my age MAY be willing to do that for a beerAug 18 22:01
PetoKrausthey are qualified enough, they know the language.Aug 18 22:02
schestowitzhttp://www.blogger.com/profil... Do these people make a living off Microsoft s*ite in GNU/Linux?Aug 18 22:02
schestowitzHow to grow the site?Aug 18 22:02
schestowitzChicken and egg thing, you know...? :-)Aug 18 22:02
PetoKrausi've got some contactsAug 18 22:03
self_liarschestowitz: for surviving with low money , the more acceptable thing is live like rmsAug 18 22:03
PetoKrausi could get some ads in printed mediaAug 18 22:03
schestowitzPrinted is no good for Internet. People need clickable redirection.Aug 18 22:03
PetoKrausi am talking slovakia, mateAug 18 22:03
PetoKraus:) though yes.Aug 18 22:03
PetoKrausfor example - the guy at DW.com is slovakAug 18 22:04
schestowitzSee, the problem with motivation is that you need an audience to get the urge to write. I used to have this problem.Aug 18 22:04
schestowitzHuh? I thought Ladislav was Russian. Oops.Aug 18 22:04
PetoKrausonce he mentioned my distro-sort-of in DWW, my page got 1000 more hits in a weekAug 18 22:04
self_liarschestowitz: hey roy it's a good idea to create a topic in sabayon linux forumAug 18 22:05
self_liarschestowitz: sabayon uses a lot of monoAug 18 22:05
PetoKrausdon't use sabayon, then :PAug 18 22:05
self_liarschestowitz: but i love sabayon and gentooAug 18 22:06
PetoKrausdon't use sabayon, use gentoo!Aug 18 22:06
self_liarPetoKraus: i love sabayonAug 18 22:06
self_liarPetoKraus: I use bothAug 18 22:06
schestowitzself_liar: yeah, I heard about Sabayon.Aug 18 22:06
PetoKrausi love gentoo and it loves me!Aug 18 22:06
schestowitzWeird combination: Gentoo and Microsoft, but Robbins.... hm....Aug 18 22:07
self_liarschestowitz: look  distrowatchAug 18 22:07
self_liarschestowitz: sabayon have a good rankAug 18 22:07
PetoKrausgentoo and microsoft?Aug 18 22:07
self_liarPetoKraus: yes petoAug 18 22:07
PetoKrausin one sentence?Aug 18 22:07
self_liarPetoKraus: daniel had finance problemsAug 18 22:08
schestowitzPetoKraus: 1000 hits if small for BN these days. He cited us too before... he actually criticised Groklaw, Radu and us for being stubborn.Aug 18 22:08
schestowitzself_liar: at least he left the dungeon quickly.Aug 18 22:08
schestowitzPort 25, that is.Aug 18 22:08
PetoKrauswho is this danielAug 18 22:09
self_liarschestowitz: yesAug 18 22:09
self_liarPetoKraus: Daniel is the founder of gentooAug 18 22:09
self_liarPetoKraus: but not anymoreAug 18 22:09
PetoKrausself_liar: ah, well, right.Aug 18 22:09
PetoKrausi guess this was in the pages 3-5 of "Histoire d'Gentoo" which i skipped.Aug 18 22:10
self_liarPetoKraus: but gentoo does not give money for daniel and then he left the gentoo foundationAug 18 22:10
schestowitzThis may have led to the recent decline of Gentoo's status. But GNU/Linux as a whole grows.Aug 18 22:11
schestowitzThe foundation and council are back though. They make a nice comebackl.Aug 18 22:11
PetoKrausgentoo's status is shiteAug 18 22:11
PetoKrausas long as gentoo will do stupid things like graphical installerAug 18 22:11
PetoKrausand will do them poorlyAug 18 22:11
self_liarschestowitz: the problem of gentoo is the ambitionAug 18 22:12
schestowitzYes, that too.Aug 18 22:12
PetoKraustheir reputation will not be good. It might be nicer to clean up the ebuilds and do some QA, and BETTER customizabilityAug 18 22:12
schestowitzThe impression I got is that they rushed 2008 out the door just for the sake of releasing it after 2007.1 was missing.Aug 18 22:12
PetoKrausi mean, i am able to build epiphany with xulrunner 1.8, 1.9 and webkit from sourceAug 18 22:12
self_liarschestowitz: the project wants everything works in all architectures ,like debian doesAug 18 22:13
PetoKrausthe ebuilds are a bit tough on allowing me to do thatAug 18 22:13
self_liarschestowitz: it ' not  a good ideaAug 18 22:13
PetoKrausself_liar: yesAug 18 22:13
PetoKrausit happened to our school as wellAug 18 22:13
PetoKrauswe used to be mathematical schoolAug 18 22:13
self_liaronly specific projects works in this worldAug 18 22:13
PetoKrausthen, they opened bilingual classes... and some romistic classes... and international school... and the overal quality dropped.Aug 18 22:14
schestowitzself_liar: Gentoo is used on some devices, so it pays off, I think. Debian is still king on embedded.Aug 18 22:14
PetoKrauswell, i wonder WHY is debian king on embedded's, when it's package management is tough b*tch...Aug 18 22:15
schestowitzPetoKraus: maths and science are not everything. Free culture is recognition of this. Greed-guided education is a menace though.Aug 18 22:15
self_liarsabayon in this case is always better than gentoo becaus of specific nature (desktop)Aug 18 22:15
PetoKrausschestowitz: no, i was just talking about impacts of "broader range of products"Aug 18 22:16
schestowitzPetoKraus: apt-get is great. Always worked for me.Aug 18 22:16
PetoKrausapt is good, the thing is - default debian install is HUGE compared to gentoo stage 3Aug 18 22:16
self_liargentoo portage is slow ,paludis always have arrogant developers ,and pkg core is recentAug 18 22:17
schestowitzRepos were 20 gigs the last time I heard. Lots of s/wAug 18 22:17
self_liarit's interesting to open a boycott novell br ,but my english is not goog,I'm searching for people good in englishAug 18 22:18
schestowitzEventually it might be all those 'appliance-ed' 'Linuxed' that take over. Like those 'open' PCs from IBM...Aug 18 22:18
self_liarsomeday maybeAug 18 22:18
schestowitzself_liar: what do you mean? Translations?Aug 18 22:18
self_liaryesAug 18 22:19
self_liarschestowitz: but i do not knowAug 18 22:19
schestowitzWell, I can't speak Portuguese, but I would be *delighted* to add translation. We get like 15000 pageviews a day, so it would be worthwhile.Aug 18 22:20
schestowitzA while ago I saw some translations of BN to Chinese.Aug 18 22:20
*m-c (n=Matthew@ubuntu/member/desertc) has joined #boycottnovellAug 18 22:21
self_liarschestowitz: Brazil need to know this information , a lot of people loves m$Aug 18 22:21
self_liarschestowitz: of course because m$ pays themAug 18 22:21
schestowitzOr pays the 'talking heads' to pass the love...Aug 18 22:22
m-cschestowitz, Do you have a web page up that summarizes your position on why novell should be boycotted?  Also, do you feel openSUSE should also be boycotted?Aug 18 22:22
self_liarschestowitz: yes ,of courseAug 18 22:22
schestowitzHi, m-c Aug 18 22:22
self_liarschestowitz: you know , poor education ,poor life and low money , for m$ it's a lot easy to buy peopelAug 18 22:23
schestowitzm-c: I have several but nothing very comprehensive like a chapter. As for OpenSUSE, I try to leave them alone because unlike Novell, they attack back. They can also reform the project by moving away from Novell.Aug 18 22:23
m-cAre you still advocating a boycott of Novell at this time?Aug 18 22:24
*self_liar has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")Aug 18 22:24
schestowitzself_liar: Without Linux, Microsoft would squeeze more money out of Brazil, but just like in China, it only needs these countries to keep its stuff de facto 'standard'. It makes most money by squeezing the West.Aug 18 22:24
m-cNot meaning to put you on the spot, just curious about your argument, after seeing the impressive advances of openSUSE.  Looking for a counterpoint.Aug 18 22:25
schestowitzIt's a strong way to put it. I would just say that people should look at the many other options. SUSE is not the best there is and it does not deserve the business.Aug 18 22:25
schestowitzI didn't choose the site name "Boycott Novell".Aug 18 22:25
m-cI see.Aug 18 22:25
m-cI think you would really like what Novell has done with integrating the radeonHD drivers, by default.  (These are the GPL 3D drivers for AMD-ATI graphic cards.)Aug 18 22:26
schestowitzThe worse one can do is pay Novell for GNU/Linux (Microsoft is paid that money too) for pretty much giving the finger to anyone who built Linux before 2003.Aug 18 22:26
schestowitzNovell is the newcomer that carrives at the party late, pukes on the floor, driving everyone away and then downing all the drinks.Aug 18 22:27
m-cHmm.  Okay, thanks for your thoughts on the subject.Aug 18 22:27
schestowitzI have some stories about Novell and RadeonHD, but  I can't share them. It's embargoed for now.Aug 18 22:28
m-cLooking forward to hearing more of your thoughts on it, which I know you will share as soon as you can.Aug 18 22:28
m-cHave a good night.Aug 18 22:28
*m-c (n=Matthew@ubuntu/member/desertc) has left #boycottnovell ("Leaving")Aug 18 22:28
schestowitzThanks.Aug 18 22:28
schestowitzPetoKraus: about that site, go for it under the assumption that all media will be Web-based. It will be.Aug 18 22:29
*PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))Aug 18 22:35
*trmanco has quit ("I just hit the close button :)")Aug 18 23:51

Recent Techrights' Posts

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