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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 21st, 2008 - Part 2

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schestowitzThe cost of my connection is already quite high. 100MBit though.Sep 21 18:26
_DougI figure they are going to sell off iPlayer eventually ..Sep 21 18:26
schestowitzKangaroo?Sep 21 18:27
_Dougupto 1200Bbit, so long as you don't use it .. :)Sep 21 18:27
_DougWho are you calling a Kangaroo :(Sep 21 18:27
_Dougback later .. time for a break ...Sep 21 18:29
schestowitzWaitSep 21 18:29
schestowitzhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008...Sep 21 18:29
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_Dougvirtualization: what's it good for ?Sep 21 18:56
_Doug"Novell Inc.and Microsoft jointly announced Thursday that Novell's SUSE Linux Enterprise has been optimized to run as an "enlightened" guest on Microsoft's Hyper-V hypervisor platform"Sep 21 18:56
_DougWhat's 'enlightened', does that mean hypervisor only makes running the others a jolting experience ?Sep 21 18:57
schestowitz_Doug: I told you.Sep 21 18:58
schestowitzYou have this massive mainframe with UNIX on it, you then want SUSE instances.Sep 21 18:59
_Doug|"In order to take advantage of paravirtualization, however, an operating system must be specifically ported to run on top of a host system"Sep 21 18:59
schestowitzSLES to be precise, at least in IBM's case. You have virtual compartment instead of one beast. Microsoft says only 7% of the servers are virtualised.Sep 21 18:59
_DougSo we have an OS that can only run in VM mode on a specific OS ?Sep 21 19:00
schestowitzI saw "enlightened" too... earlier in OSNews. It means nothing, but it sounds good. Microsoft gives only Novell access to some APIs. Let me find info...Sep 21 19:00
_DougI mean isn't that lockin ?Sep 21 19:00
_Doug"MS only Novell access to some APIs" well DOH :)Sep 21 19:01
schestowitzHere, I found it: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_-8IufkbuD0Sep 21 19:01
schestowitzSh*. Wrong linkSep 21 19:01
schestowitzhttp://weblog.infoworld.com/virtualization...Sep 21 19:01
_DougIf I don't have big hardware ?Sep 21 19:02
schestowitz_Doug: yes, that makes it harder to move from SLES to another GNU/Linux distro later. It's good for MONOPO~1Sep 21 19:02
schestowitz_Doug: maybe you want to run Solaris and GNU/Linux on the same rack and servers at the same time. Best of both worlds...?Sep 21 19:03
_DougIt would be simpler to build a scalable cluster ..Sep 21 19:03
schestowitzReminds me of an ad (it's hard to manage)Sep 21 19:03
schestowitzIt's like the theory of building a Google datacentre from recycles 486s.Sep 21 19:04
_DougOnly if you are in click-and-install land ...Sep 21 19:04
schestowitzIt also takes up a lot of energy and hard to maintain, redundancy aside. Let me find that IBM vid.Sep 21 19:04
_DougA single console and a bunch of scripts is all you need ...Sep 21 19:04
_Douglet the computer do the work ..Sep 21 19:05
schestowitzGot it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmx...Sep 21 19:05
schestowitzWhat about click-n-drollers?Sep 21 19:05
schestowitz*droolers?Sep 21 19:06
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_DougVM, a solution in search of a problem .. :)Sep 21 19:07
_Doug"Microsoft and Novell deliver on virtualization interoperability"Sep 21 19:08
_DougWas 'virtualization interoperability' ever a problem ? :)Sep 21 19:08
schestowitzKind of... but it's getting as popular as it is hyped. Desktop VM is good too in case you want several environments to run simultaneously.Sep 21 19:08
_DougI mean the VMed OS was supposed to not know it was on a VM machine, the clue is in the name - virtual machine !!!Sep 21 19:09
schestowitzLots of Mac users virtualise Windows.Sep 21 19:09
schestowitz_Doug: yes, but Microsoft INNOVA~1 this with "hypercalls"Sep 21 19:09
schestowitzIt created an 'extension' equivalent to penalise through rewrds in terms of performance to 'taxed' Linuxes.Sep 21 19:10
schestowitzIf people don't realise this yet, then they don't keep an eye on the ball, which is why the media coverage of this latest 'news' annoys me. They described this as "Microsoft plays with Linux VMs". Pete Judge in ZDNet UK was right to stand out by saying "SUSE", not "Linux". Microsoft helps create two 'classes' of Linuxes: 'legal' and 'edgy' (or  balance -sheet liability,  as opposed to "community")Sep 21 19:12
_DougCan I run Wine on SuSE on hypervisor on Windows 2008 on Hyper-V ?Sep 21 19:15
_DougAnd can I thrn install Vista on Wine ?Sep 21 19:16
_DougVirtual server backups prone to failure ..Sep 21 19:18
_Doughttp://www.infoworld.com/article/08/09/19/Virtual_serve...Sep 21 19:18
_DougCan an OS running in a VM environment ever be as stable as one running natively ?Sep 21 19:19
_DougAs a techie working in an IT environment, do I really want one ?Sep 21 19:20
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_DougFrom my experience, rebooting a working OS is always an excercise in faith, never mind after an 'upgrade'.Sep 21 19:21
_DougSticking all this on top of an emulator strikes me as temting faith ...Sep 21 19:22
schestowitz_Doug: it's not stable, no.Sep 21 19:22
schestowitzLet it be added that Novell agreed from the start that SLES would run /under/ Windows. How foolish and submissive is /that/?Sep 21 19:23
schestowitzAnalogy: have a corvette run on top of a skateboard (CNET).Sep 21 19:23
schestowitzhttp://www.linuxinsider.com/story/64166.htmlSep 21 19:24
_DougAll these references in the press to VM is dangerous, as the PHB is going to read it and coome into work tomorrow and demand to know why we don't have VM already, why are we behind the curve .. :)Sep 21 19:24
_Dougcorvette run on top of a skateboard : nice one .. :)Sep 21 19:25
schestowitzYes, this was pointed out last year. VM hype.Sep 21 19:25
schestowitzBut some people want to run some Wndows apps on Mac or Linux (servers or desktop)Sep 21 19:25
_Doug"A so-called time bomb was added into an early version of the software -- a fairly common development practice"Sep 21 19:26
_DougTotal bollix, if you don't mind me saying so ...Sep 21 19:26
schestowitzFor Microsoft there's a hidden agenda here. I wrote about it before, but read closely.Sep 21 19:26
schestowitzThere's a new campaign called "go virtual now"Sep 21 19:26
schestowitzMicrosoft is hyping it up but only with Hyper-VSep 21 19:26
schestowitzThey can use Hyper-V as a gatekeeper to leave Red Hat out in the cold.Sep 21 19:26
schestowitzHypothetical scenario:Sep 21 19:27
schestowitzCompany has Red Hat servers and Debian all over the place... chugging along in the back room without a problem.Sep 21 19:27
schestowitzThen comes some clueless Steel-like CIO asking to follow Mirosoft's advice and "go virtual"Sep 21 19:27
schestowitzWhat to use? VMWare? "Expensive," he'll say.Sep 21 19:28
schestowitz"Windows 2008," s/he'll say, "is kind of like Linux with the CLI [Microsoft markets it that way] and it has virtualisation as a feature... built in."Sep 21 19:28
schestowitzSo $Peon gets that Windows thingie (spare $3000), then puts GNU/Linux on it... but wait... it doesn't work well... he need to buy SLES and pay Microsoft some Linux tax. What for? Good question. Nobody know, but it's part of the cartel.Sep 21 19:29
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schestowitzAnyway, that's just one problem (the cost). The other issue is then stability. How on earth can you rely on SLES when it sits on Windows.Sep 21 19:30
_DougI admire your deviousness, purr of evil .. :)Sep 21 19:30
schestowitzMind you, the psychic some people know as Laura Didio surveyed folks to find that WS08 has /WORSE/ uptime than WS03.Sep 21 19:30
_DougSLED on Windows .. good point .. madhatter time ..Sep 21 19:31
schestowitzUNIX and Linux were well ahead. So... not only us GNU/Linux down more (it relies on Windows), but it also needs maintenance with patches and all, as well as BOTH Wndows licences and SUSE licences (which also include  Linux 'tax'). Okay? But wait...Sep 21 19:31
_DougFree Software Shouldn't Mean You Can't Make a BuckSep 21 19:31
_Doughttp://www.linuxinsider.com/story/Free-Softwa...Sep 21 19:31
schestowitzThen, CIO busts the grunt's door, blamiing tha Lunix thingie.Sep 21 19:32
schestowitz"Why is it down so often?" he says. "Why pay two licences?" Good question.Sep 21 19:32
schestowitzSo now there's more reasons to cut off the Lunix [sic] altogether. Microsoft makes GNU/Linux look bad: expensive and not performany.Sep 21 19:33
_Doughttp://www.ubersoft.net/Sep 21 19:33
schestowitz*performant (if that's a proper wordSep 21 19:33
_DougI should have vtaken up that other job offer, wanna know what it was ?Sep 21 19:34
schestowitzGo ahead.Sep 21 19:34
_DougRunning an 'escort' agency site ..Sep 21 19:34
_DougAt least I would have kept my dignity .. :)Sep 21 19:34
schestowitzIf it's just a site, then your hands are kept clean.Sep 21 19:35
_DougPersonally checking in the 'staff' ..Sep 21 19:35
schestowitzSome company in London that developers Casono solutions offered me a job back in 2003. I declined.Sep 21 19:35
_DougGet me a white streatch limo and drive up and down with by bitches in the back .. oh what a life ..Sep 21 19:35
schestowitzWait, we're talking not about Ford Escorts, do we? :-)Sep 21 19:36
_DougInstead, all I ever wanted to do was fix machinery .. oh well ..Sep 21 19:36
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_DougWhat's Casono ?Sep 21 19:36
schestowitzCasino (typo)Sep 21 19:36
schestowitzNo, they only develop software. Orbis.Sep 21 19:36
_Dougok, got to take a break ...Sep 21 19:37
schestowitzI still have the contract somewhere on my PC.Sep 21 19:37
schestowitzGambling is no good to society and developing proprietary casonoware is no constructive occupation of dignity.Sep 21 19:38
schestowitzIn retrospect, given the state of the industry (offshoring and all), it wonderful that I made a career change and stepped into research.Sep 21 19:38
schestowitzI'm still keeping in touch with computing, not just medicine, maths and all that malarky.Sep 21 19:39
schestowitzThere's a good discussion about the economy and the frauds in many companies at the moment. In COLA too... since you don't read it, well, I guess I could repeat it here. Novell is affected too.Sep 21 19:42
*benJIman wonders what schestowitz's research subject is.Sep 21 19:46
schestowitzGood post: http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/09/20/t...Sep 21 19:48
schestowitzImage analysis mainly. Sep 21 19:49
_DougbenJIman: what do you study ?Sep 21 19:52
benJIman_Doug: I am no longer a student.Sep 21 19:52
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schestowitzWhere are you now?Sep 21 19:54
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benJImanNear london.Sep 21 19:54
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schestowitzFTC busy again: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/20746/1075/Sep 21 20:01
_DougbenJIman: aren't you barred ?Sep 21 20:01
_Dougnew version of MythTV releasedSep 21 20:04
_Doughttp://distrowatch.com/?newsid=05098Sep 21 20:04
_DougTop 10 reasons why Steve Ballmer should be certified insane ..Sep 21 20:08
_Doughttp://www.itwire.com/content/view/20745/53/Sep 21 20:08
schestowitzYes, seen that a moment ago.Sep 21 20:09
schestowitzThat remark about the stock is curious.Sep 21 20:09
schestowitzBallmer: "There is such an overvaluation of technology stocks that it is absurd. I would include our stock in that category. It is bad for the long-term worth of the economy."Sep 21 20:11
schestowitzhttp://www.networkworld.com/community/node/14796Sep 21 20:11
schestowitzEmphasis on "It is bad for the long-term worth of the economy." That was then, this is now: http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article3656.htmlSep 21 20:11
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_DougGiven the current instability, I don't think anyone whould want to rack the boat ..Sep 21 20:15
schestowitzI have a new .sig for COLA (will last for a couple of weeks until it's absorbed): "There is such an overvaluation of technology stocks that it is absurd. I would include our stock in that category. It is bad for the long-term worth of the economy."Sep 21 20:18
_DougExcept for the people that started the rumor that HBOS was about to fail, and then sold it short .. :)Sep 21 20:19
schestowitzWell, yeah, but that just shows what a corrupt place the stock market has always been.Sep 21 20:20
schestowitzThe mom-and-pops suffer the most because they have no inside information. The crooks manipulate things, so they win the most. GL had a link the other day about new regulation in news.Sep 21 20:21
_DougYou sound suprised ? tell us something we don't already knowSep 21 20:22
_DougAs a consolation, you and the rest, get to work for the next 20 years to pay off the deptSep 21 20:22
schestowitz_Doug: no, it's old news.Sep 21 20:23
schestowitzFor the second time you claim that I purport to be stating something new. I had this discussion about selling short when I was a teenager. My dad explained this to me. In short, Wall Street is a casino, albeit a sophisticated one with TV channels and all.. (yes, I'm exaggerating)Sep 21 20:24
_DougThe root cause being allowing morgages to be clumped and diced and sliced and resold on ad nausium ..Sep 21 20:25
_DougThe 'priduct' being ultimately show to be worthless ...Sep 21 20:26
_DougWe had a 'tech bubble' crash, now this is a 'real world' crashSep 21 20:27
schestowitz:-)Sep 21 20:27
schestowitzWell puySep 21 20:27
schestowitz*putSep 21 20:27
_DougHow the 'instrument' was first invented is described in 'Liars Poker'Sep 21 20:28
schestowitzApart from the "we". Not everyone is affected. Those who are hit worse are probably Americans... not as bad for Canadians.Sep 21 20:28
_Doughttp://www.amazon.com/Liars-Poker-Rising...Sep 21 20:28
schestowitzRead it yet?Sep 21 20:29
_Doug'We' are going to be paying for this, for the next decade, through higher taxes and prices ..Sep 21 20:29
_DougYea I read it years ago ..Sep 21 20:29
schestowitz"As described by Lewis, liar's poker is a game played in idle moments by workers on Wall Street, the objective of which is to reward trickery and deceit. With this as a metaphor, Lewis describes his four years with the Wall Street firm Salomon Brothers, from his bizarre hiring through the training program to his years as a successful bond trader."Sep 21 20:29
schestowitzI bet the likes of Alex Jones will have a day trip.Sep 21 20:30
_DougIt's all there: lets buy up morgages, slice and dice them and sell on as 'packages'Sep 21 20:30
_DougAlex Jones is a NutJob .. gives conspiricy theorists a bad name :)Sep 21 20:30
schestowitzI have friends with mortgages and debt. Scary... especially for them.Sep 21 20:30
schestowitzAlex goes too far, I agree.Sep 21 20:31
schestowitzIke (spelling?) is even worse.Sep 21 20:31
schestowitzCrocodile nonsense...Sep 21 20:31
_DougThey had to change the law to allow such 'packages' to be traded on the stock exchange, before that it was illegal, for good reason !!!Sep 21 20:31
_DougRemember the south east asian bubble that went burst, well this time they brankupted the US !Sep 21 20:32
schestowitzIs Greenspan and the other 'geniuses' still in reign? They must have known and anticipated this. I reckon some of those unnecessary wars are at least partly interlinked. A lot of the wealth (real weath... not imaginary one) is in Arab states and countries like Singapore, I think.Sep 21 20:33
_DougThe Oracle of WallStreet, is gone ..Sep 21 20:33
schestowitz:-SSep 21 20:33
schestowitzWhich one\?Sep 21 20:33
_DougYou could take any of his pronouncments as meaning the exact opposite :)Sep 21 20:33
_DougYou don't need a conspiricy, Greed is GOOD !!!Sep 21 20:34
schestowitzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_GreenspanSep 21 20:34
schestowitz"Alan Greenspan (born March 6, 1926 in New York City) is an American economist and was from 1987 to 2006 the Chairman of the Federal Reserve of the United States. "Sep 21 20:34
schestowitzHe left at a good time. Got his knighthood and all and then ran home.Sep 21 20:35
_Doughttp://www.rdwarf.com/users/kioh/Sep 21 20:35
schestowitz"His honorary titles include Knight Commander of the British Empire, bestowed in 2002 and Commander of the Légion d'honneur (Legion of Honor)." Watch the photo next to it with Bush.Sep 21 20:36
_DougThe prime function of the CotFED is to inspire confidence, to that respect he must predict, or give the impression of being able to predict the future.Sep 21 20:36
_DougSo if he says the economy is going up, and people believe him, then they'll buy, and the economy will indeed improve ..#Sep 21 20:37
schestowitz*LOL* good URL.Sep 21 20:38
_DougLike a king of old, he has to be sacraficed to the Gods before peopel realise he has feet of clay ..Sep 21 20:38
schestowitzWell, he *looks* smart.Sep 21 20:38
schestowitzI mean, they gave him a gown and a medal and all...and glorify the oracles in the media. Much like other bubbles in any case, including some at the micro level... like Micro-soft.Sep 21 20:39
_DougExactly: http://www.thepostgame.com/wordpress/wp-con...Sep 21 20:39
_DougNot like him :)Sep 21 20:39
schestowitzBuild the image of a mighty software company that controls the world (never mind if it relies on piracy and puts back doors in software along with the NSA)...Sep 21 20:40
schestowitz*LOL* at that last one.Sep 21 20:40
_DougThe mighty software company got mighty because it got millions of people to work for it for nothing and give it money besides, in the form of 'licenses' :)Sep 21 20:41
_DougTrouble for the 'west' is the 'third world' don't want to buy it's cars or goods, as they have their own, so what's left to sell them ?Sep 21 20:42
schestowitzYes, well that's the pyramiding.Sep 21 20:42
_DougAnd most of the raw resources the west needs is in the 'third world'Sep 21 20:43
schestowitzSee http://www.billparish.com/msftfraudfacts.htmlSep 21 20:43
schestowitz“Sadly, many of these brilliant people have been blinded by the stock price and unable to see that Microsoft is also the key architect of the greatest financial pyramid scheme this century. It is not uncommon for participants in pyramid schemes to lose their emotional bearings. My close friends who work at Microsoft are particularly upset over my work and it is possible that even Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer do not realize the imSep 21 20:44
schestowitzplications of their financial practices.”Sep 21 20:44
schestowitzThis guy has just removed his pages that stood there for a long time (see his reasons): http://reactor-core.org/microsoft-pyramid.htmlSep 21 20:44
schestowitz“down for renovations and rethinking”Sep 21 20:44
_DougI am familiar, but such facts are inconvient in the current criscesSep 21 20:44
schestowitzWeb archvive has a copySep 21 20:45
schestowitz"As with all pyramid schemes, it is important to get as close to tier 1 as possible. From a practical standpoint, usually only tiers 1 and 2 will derive significant long-term economic rewards from such schemes.”Sep 21 20:45
schestowitzhttp://web.archive.org/web/*/http://react...Sep 21 20:45
_Dougbig secret: most financial 'business' is a pyramed, it's a three card trick .. leme explain ..Sep 21 20:45
_DougYou give €£100.00 to the bank and they give you a checkbook.Sep 21 20:46
_DougYou write checks and but goods.Sep 21 20:46
schestowitzYes, that's a known thing. Scale is another factor.Sep 21 20:46
_DougThe bank lends your money to other peopel and they buy goods.Sep 21 20:46
_DougSo €£100 pounds is magically transformed into €£300.Sep 21 20:47
benJIman_Doug: It's "Cheque" not "Check"Sep 21 20:47
_DougOnly as long as all three people don't come looking for their money at the same time.Sep 21 20:47
_DougGet it ..Sep 21 20:47
_DougThat's international finance 101Sep 21 20:47
schestowitzWell, better keep the UAE happy then... and keep the oil reserves sufficient.Sep 21 20:48
_Dougas long as there is 'wealth' coming into the system, everything is fine ..Sep 21 20:48
schestowitzWell, then you start buying $200 EeesSep 21 20:48
schestowitz:-)Sep 21 20:49
_DougWealth in the form of raw material or physical labor, or consumers buying things ..Sep 21 20:49
_DougWhen that don't happen, you invent an ENRONSep 21 20:49
_DougOr invade somewhere with the raw material and 'sell' it back to them ..Sep 21 20:50
schestowitzWell, it's a bit different 'cause you can put it thusly: American hadly even fulfills its own needs now. People buy Chinese merchandise. Export? Haha. Not much, thank you.Sep 21 20:50
_DougExcept if they have nuclear weapons .. :oSep 21 20:50
schestowitzWell, let's not go there yet. :-|Sep 21 20:50
_DougLike: the UK used sell salt to the saharian Arabs .. :)Sep 21 20:50
_DougNow the west sells OIl to the IraqiesSep 21 20:51
schestowitzWell, it's the 51st stateSep 21 20:51
schestowitz(Iraw, I mean)Sep 21 20:51
schestowitz*IraqSep 21 20:51
_DougNo, the UK is ..Sep 21 20:51
schestowitzOkay, 52ndSep 21 20:52
_Dougand we are damn proud to be Americans,Sep 21 20:52
_DougSo China sells us cheap goods, what to sell China, arms and IP ?Sep 21 20:52
schestowitzSo sharing the burden internationally is the solution? Or letting G8 'manage' the wealth? http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://reactor-co...Sep 21 20:53
schestowitzBTW, Labour is at 'my' gym right now.Sep 21 20:53
schestowitzMidland Hotel. They are staying there for a week... the annual conference. So I go to Fitness First instead... it's not too bad actually.Sep 21 20:53
_Dougpeople don't want to know, just sleep safely in their beds.Sep 21 20:53
schestowitzWell, my friend Mike and his g/f won't have a child because of this situation. "It's not a good environment to raise a child," he tells me. He has a mortgage to pay too.Sep 21 20:54
_DougUnder my three cups I have nothing at all ..Sep 21 20:54
schestowitz*LOL* at "arms and IP ?"Sep 21 20:55
schestowitzChina would be stupid to let itself become a slave via USPTOSep 21 20:55
_DougWell, it's that simple, we buy their OIL and they 'buy' our arms and give the money back againSep 21 20:55
_DougChina can't be 'liberated' like some other places ..Sep 21 20:56
schestowitzBTW, the Gates bed buddies in China and the Ballmer-McCain thing (Chinese embassy) may be related to future prospects and China's dominance. You could also see the sheer demonisation ahead of the Olympics.Sep 21 20:56
schestowitz_Doug: no.Sep 21 20:57
_DougLets stick to issues, it ain't about Mr. A, B, or C it's a whole bigger picture.Sep 21 20:57
schestowitzAcxtually, if you can't portray them as "evil", then you can justify overthrowing the leaders with the help of 'the people' (as in Republic of the People)Sep 21 20:57
schestowitz_Doug: yes, I reckoned going personal would prove unproductive.Sep 21 20:57
schestowitzAnd yet, to characterise those involved, examples may help.Sep 21 20:58
schestowitzMake no mistake. Microsoft too (among other companies) is an active participant in politics.Sep 21 20:58
_DougSo the west (the US mostly) is in a bit of a sticky wicket. Nothing to sell, cheep goods coming in from the east and al lthe raw materials in an unstable (can't be controled) part of the world.Sep 21 20:59
_DougNot to mention the Ruskies ..Sep 21 21:00
schestowitzhttp://www.rdwarf.com/users/kioh/ha...Sep 21 21:00
schestowitzWell, they trade i Euro now, so...Sep 21 21:01
_Dougwho trades in Euros ? send in the marines !!Sep 21 21:01
_DougIt's much much worse, I've been watching the issue for a long time.Sep 21 21:02
schestowitzHow long?Sep 21 21:02
schestowitz*LOL* @ marines.Sep 21 21:02
_DougThere are more dollars outside the US than in, most is tied up with the value of the petro-dollar.Sep 21 21:02
trmancohttp://ubuntulite.tuxfamily.org/?q=node/171Sep 21 21:02
_DougThat's why the price of OIl has to be kept high.Sep 21 21:02
schestowitzOh no...Sep 21 21:03
schestowitzI think I saw something like this coming earlier and someone made a similar type of warning.Sep 21 21:03
_DougThere's also the revenue tied up in illegal pharmaceuticals, one fifth of the GDP of the planetSep 21 21:04
schestowitz[A-Za-z]buntuâ„¢ Sep 21 21:04
_DougThis has to be brought back into the conventional economy.Sep 21 21:04
_DougThat's why the 'war on drugs' is mostly bogusSep 21 21:04
schestowitz_Doug: illegal in what sense?Sep 21 21:05
_DougAre you scared yet ?Sep 21 21:05
_Dougherion, cocaine etc ..Sep 21 21:05
schestowitzNo, I heard this before.Sep 21 21:05
_DougI'm just explaining how the real economy operates, and not what you read in the newspapers or on tv ..Sep 21 21:06
schestowitzThere's also a portion of it which is to do with keeping a pyramid, in the sense that there are classes. Leveling won't do.Sep 21 21:06
schestowitzMe? Newspaper? TV? Naa.. I read and hear the news, not a fable.Sep 21 21:06
schestowitzAlthough some papers are honest... not many though.Sep 21 21:07
schestowitzThose that criticise Gates for example... get bought, remember?Sep 21 21:07
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AVRS2url?!Sep 21 21:08
_Douggot to go ..Sep 21 21:08
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schestowitzI'm trying to find one.Sep 21 21:08
AVRS2Nah, I mean the Ubuntu letter.Sep 21 21:09
AVRS2*e-mailSep 21 21:09
schestowitzI have a few here: http://boycottnovell.com/2007/11/... But there's more.Sep 21 21:09
ReverseGTRMicrosoft and Novell take a step with their relationship into the consumer work with Novell's distro being the first to integrate drivers nessisary to become totally compatible with Microsoft's Hyper-V virtualization platform: http://searchenterpriselinux.techtarget.com/news/art...Sep 21 21:09
schestowitzThere's Linux............... and then there's /Novell/ Linux. Sep 21 21:10
ReverseGTRbtw, it is Novell's SUSE distro that is for Hyper V which makes many wonder what will be the fate of Red HatSep 21 21:10
MinceRMicrosoft Linux, SuSE Edition.Sep 21 21:10
MinceRthere's also Xandros Edition and Turbolinux Edition. there was Linspire Edition but i hear it's gone under already.Sep 21 21:11
ReverseGTRMinceR: and it will be separated into PC Literate, Expert and We Will Spoil You if you pay us allot support packagesSep 21 21:11
MinceR:)Sep 21 21:11
schestowitzYes.Sep 21 21:11
*MinceR sings "We Will, We Will F**k You"Sep 21 21:12
schestowitzDon't sing. SweatyB might dance.Sep 21 21:12
ReverseGTRMinceR: M$ is going to throw in some pre-paid prositutes?Sep 21 21:12
ReverseGTRsweetSep 21 21:12
schestowitzCoupons.Sep 21 21:13
MinceRnahSep 21 21:13
MinceRjust the usual screwing the customer deal.Sep 21 21:13
schestowitzThey toss them from the airplanes. I think Moglen said this.Sep 21 21:13
ReverseGTRschestowitz: awwwSep 21 21:13
schestowitzJust take them, take them.Sep 21 21:13
schestowitz"Ditch Red Hat," they saySep 21 21:13
schestowitzCome to Pen SUSE.Sep 21 21:13
MinceRit's all right for SweatyB to dance as long as he does it on a narrow ledge.Sep 21 21:13
schestowitz[hides knife behind back]Sep 21 21:13
schestowitzMicrosoft doesn't mind Linux growing a little as long as it's inside the 'pen'Sep 21 21:14
MinceRif they knew more, they would mind.Sep 21 21:14
schestowitzLater on Microsoft can do some slaughtering. I wrote about it last year and SJVN then repeated the analogy.Sep 21 21:15
ReverseGTRschestowitz: you can find out more from their spin doctors at the M$/Novell PR Orgy room: http://www.moreinterop.com/Sep 21 21:15
MinceRit's easy to switch from suse to a real distro.Sep 21 21:15
schestowitzWell, try to beat the 'mediaSep 21 21:15
schestowitzBN does about 20,000 on good days, but the media is like what? Millions of pages?Sep 21 21:15
schestowitz"Microsoft hails open source reach"Sep 21 21:15
schestowitz"Microsoft plays with Linux"Sep 21 21:15
schestowitz"Hyper-V works with Novell... Interop! Sol-loo-shens"Sep 21 21:16
ReverseGTRschestowitz: "plays" as in never takes it seriouslySep 21 21:16
schestowitzPlays like a cat plays with a mouse..Sep 21 21:16
schestowitzLearning where to bite.Sep 21 21:17
ReverseGTRgood analogySep 21 21:17
MinceRexcept that in this case, the mouse will eat the cat, it just doesn't realize yet.Sep 21 21:17
schestowitzMicrosoft is open..., like a bear trap.Sep 21 21:17
schestowitzWell, there are many mice.Sep 21 21:17
ReverseGTRmice  that will start starving for market shareSep 21 21:18
schestowitzUnless Microsoft... errr... I mean "fat cat"  can  make all these Ubuntu and RedHats go away.Sep 21 21:18
schestowitzThe picture of Xfce comes to mind.Sep 21 21:18
schestowitzSubscriptions rather.Sep 21 21:18
schestowitzReverseGTR: were you here last night?Sep 21 21:19
ReverseGTRschestowitz: from what I read Xfce is a good GUI,  ecspecially when it comes to developing distros that are integrated into mobo ROMs. and no I was notSep 21 21:19
schestowitzWe had a discussion about XenSource and I'll post about it tomorrow. It's about his Nathan Myhrvold's brother and co at Ignite Partners helps the hijack of Xen, which Ubuntu and Red Hat depended on.Sep 21 21:20
schestowitzMicrosoft is 'runs' EMC/VMware too...it's bizarre, truly.Sep 21 21:20
schestowitzReverseGTR: I mentioned Xfce because of the mouse.Sep 21 21:20
schestowitzhttp://www.xfce.org/layout/images/logo.pngSep 21 21:20
ReverseGTRoh lol, didn't realise they had such a logoSep 21 21:21
schestowitzI haven't actually used Xfce for like 8 years.Sep 21 21:21
schestowitzhttp://ubuntulite.tuxfamily.org/?q=node/171 "Michelle, The Trademark Team"Sep 21 21:21
schestowitz200 people in a company that cannot make many patches to the kernel, but they have a "Trademark Team"?Sep 21 21:22
ReverseGTRschestowitz: welcome to the wild world of software marketing where like Steve Jobs said: "good artists create, great artists steal."Sep 21 21:26
schestowitzWith sharing and attribution, some of this is  resolved.Sep 21 21:27
ReverseGTRschestowitz: but if there is a will there is a way and many businesses will employ large legal teams just to find some loophole in the licensing and either reverse-engineer or just flat out add it to their product or serviceSep 21 21:29
ReverseGTRschestowitz: but yea the more software is shared the more people use that product/service and the less likely they would look favoribley on another that resembles what they helped createSep 21 21:30
schestowitzThe preparation of the Novell/Microsoft deal/collusion/partnership took approximately 6 months and involved feedback at various levels. A few top employees were involved as well. At the heart of the deal was a stake to be inserted into the heart of the GPL (v2 at the time). Again, that's why we must respond.Sep 21 21:30
pombat42Hello all! xfce is a great window manager but what has to be done is to make certain that with the various mainstream versions of Linux that use KDE or gnome, that all, and I mean every single one, programs that are in the menus are also in the xfce menus should a person choose to install xfce from the repositorySep 21 21:31
schestowitzWhat complicates this further is the attempt to use the code /against/ the community (particularly actual vendors like Red Hat), using patents, driver voids (e.g. Hyper-V, Mono permissions, clones).Sep 21 21:31
pombat42nothing is more frustrating to a user than to experiment with xfce with say Ubuntu only to discover that many, or in some cases, all of the stock applications do not show up in the menus.Sep 21 21:32
ReverseGTRschestowitz: so Microsoft wants to be at the heart of the controll machine or what they think is central to managing open source and then changing standards to oust the largest competitors.Sep 21 21:32
schestowitzThis new article is very relevant to the DE diversity: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080918-openmok...Sep 21 21:32
schestowitzpombat42: Mandriva did a splendid job at integrating GNOME and KDE apps based on my experience with 2008.1 (I only used Mandrake in the past on two PCs)Sep 21 21:33
pombat42ReverseGTR : Of course they do. That's the way they operate. If this were baseball and they had 2 strikes against them in the bottom of the 9th they would change the rules to allow 4 strikes. After buying out the umpires contract of courseSep 21 21:34
schestowitzReverseGTR: yes, and they can legally do so. People must resist, but true information is scarce.Sep 21 21:34
schestowitzGroklaw is OK.Sep 21 21:34
pombat42Schestowitz: Thanks! How did Mandriva do with xfce and windowmaker though? Ubuntu does decent with xfce but dies badly with windowmakerSep 21 21:35
schestowitzThen there's SJVN, who gave Novell a little whipping for "IP peace of mind," but he's still a SLED fan.Sep 21 21:35
ReverseGTRschestowitz: I hope Openmoko and Maemo become a force to be reconned with in the mobile marketSep 21 21:35
pombat42once phones separate the physical phone from the contract, things will begin to start cooking with gas!Sep 21 21:36
schestowitzpombat42: no traces of Xfce on this machine, but there's Mandriva 2008.1 Xfce edition, which is a /COMMUNITY/ effort only. Beranger praised it.Sep 21 21:36
pombat42Nice to know! I'm sure that one has it all there. I haven't used Mandriva since it was Mandrake though. I like Slackware mostlySep 21 21:37
schestowitzSome things are still /blowing up' in Mand2009, but it's not final and it's KDE4 (work in progress). Alanw wrote some stuff about it yesterday.Sep 21 21:37
schestowitzMaemo?Sep 21 21:37
schestowitzIsn't that kind of closed? Or at least, based on what I've read, Nokia lost control to the community of users, so it's not happy. It wants DRM and 'stuff'Sep 21 21:38
schestowitzpombat42: there are other issues with mobile phones like transmission and radiation, IMHO.Sep 21 21:38
pombat42Nokia from what I have heard is on the tight rope walking both sides and seeing which way it falls.Sep 21 21:38
ReverseGTRschestowitz: they have been mostly closing it up from the driver end with the N810's DSP being run through a proprietary tarbar but aside from that there is still an active open source developement community for itSep 21 21:39
schestowitzI can't help wondering if it's 'the next smoking'. I bet it's those with vested intertests that publish or fund contradictory studies. It's just like global warning.Sep 21 21:39
schestowitzLet me find a link that I sent my dad.Sep 21 21:39
pombat42take care people. have a good evening/daySep 21 21:40
*pombat42 (n=pombat42@ool-182dda9f.dyn.optonline.net) has left #boycottnovell ("Leaving")Sep 21 21:40
schestowitzGot it : http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-9999188-1.ht...Sep 21 21:40
MinceRif nokia management had half a brain, they'd realize the DRM bubble is close to being popped.Sep 21 21:40
schestowitzYes, tell Ari. :-)Sep 21 21:40
schestowitzhttp://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2008...Sep 21 21:41
ReverseGTRschestowitz: well on the other side of Nokia's software is Symbian which has been given to a consortium that I think now Google is a part of since Android's API may merge into Symbian's kernel in the future.Sep 21 21:41
schestowitzSymbian is now Nokia and they FUD Linux.Sep 21 21:41
schestowitzIn the most pathetic ways too. They alienate the very same people whom they crave and need desperately.Sep 21 21:42
ReverseGTRschestowitz: but wouldn't that mean they pretty much given up on patching up Maemo?Sep 21 21:42
schestowitzTip #1: don't insult  your customer to sellSep 21 21:42
schestowitzReverseGTR: got a link about it.Sep 21 21:43
schestowitzThere was that "J Gold" BS, which was debunked very heavily. By Google too, IIRC. Besides, Nokia competes with Google, it even 'stole' Qt.Sep 21 21:43
ReverseGTRschestowitz: I am sure in the future Nokia will have management that is more open minded since Finland as a country has the most Linux users.Sep 21 21:44
schestowitzFor sure?Sep 21 21:44
schestowitzFirefox I know about, but GNU/Linux?Sep 21 21:44
ReverseGTRschestowitz: well from what I heard from people who have been to Finland and seeing everything that comes out that is not from Nokia is basically running on Linux.Sep 21 21:45
schestowitzhttp://www.archive.org/search.php?quer...Sep 21 21:45
ReverseGTRlike this: http://technorati.com/posts/kedOO4...Sep 21 21:45
*schestowitz looksSep 21 21:46
ReverseGTRits pretty neat, a 32 inch multitouch whose smoothness puts the M$ Surface to shameSep 21 21:47
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Sep 21 21:46:58 2008
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Sep 21 21:47:08 2008
*Now talking on #boycottnovellSep 21 21:47
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: "Exploring the problems of the Novell/Microsoft patent deal"Sep 21 21:47
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Sat Sep 20 21:10:49 2008Sep 21 21:47
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channelSep 21 21:47
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitzSep 21 21:47
schestowitzOops. Wrong key. Did I miss something?Sep 21 21:47
*trmanco has quit ("I just hit the close button :)")Sep 21 21:47
*#boycottnovell :[freenode-info] channel flooding and no channel staff around to help? please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelpSep 21 21:47
ReverseGTRI was just saying how it is much faster and smoother then the M$ SurfaceSep 21 21:47
schestowitzCan you paste it?Sep 21 21:47
ReverseGTRhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/09/01/multi...Sep 21 21:47
schestowitzAhSep 21 21:47
schestowitzWell, Surface is predated by Linux devices.Sep 21 21:48
schestowitzResearch stuff mostly.Sep 21 21:48
ReverseGTRtrueSep 21 21:48
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/06/11/irc-l...Sep 21 21:48
schestowitzLinks therein.Sep 21 21:48
schestowitzbrbSep 21 21:50
AVRS2gnSep 21 21:51
schestowitzI'm back now anywaySep 21 21:53
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ReverseGTRschestowitz: I have only known one place that is using the Microsoft Surface and that is the AT&T Store in Times Square NY, NYSep 21 21:54
schestowitzThe shop. :-)Sep 21 21:55
schestowitzMicrosoft sold a million Zunes... to the warehouses.Sep 21 21:55
schestowitzIt's called channel-stuffing of course and they did the same with XBox360 and Office 2007 (I have references). I have no references showing channel-stuffing of Vista, but Vista is worse.Sep 21 21:56
schestowitzIn that case of Vista, they count even /downgrade' to XP now as one Vista sale but TWO, according to what I was told XP sale is counted as Vista by Microsoft, which also tied it to every PC. I believe it's called double-sipping and it gives a false perception of warn embrace.Sep 21 21:57
schestowitz"/downgrades/ to XP not.." (pardon my lack of proofreadingSep 21 21:58
schestowitz*dippingSep 21 21:58
schestowitz*warm (okay, I'll start proofreading, I promise)Sep 21 21:59
ReverseGTRschestowitz: in that case they seem to be only deluding themselves since Dell and HP have extended plans to continue bundling XP. And even HP maybe designing a new Unix based OS for their enterprise servers.Sep 21 21:59
schestowitzNot GNU/Linux-based?Sep 21 22:00
ReverseGTRI still think the rumors of HP making a desktop OS are to state the least dumfounded. However, I also feel that Virtual Machines will catch on more before anybody starts looking into M$ alternatives.Sep 21 22:01
ReverseGTRschestowitz: concerning HP's OS it is mostly rumors, but based on their past Unix OS probably notSep 21 22:01
schestowitzH-P sort of denied it. Well, someone sure tried to retract rumours spurred by BW.Sep 21 22:01
schestowitzThey GPLv2ed one of their UNIX FSes recently, no? Could this be related? Possibly?Sep 21 22:01
ReverseGTRschestowitz: could beSep 21 22:02
schestowitzThey are too tied to Microsoft though.Sep 21 22:02
ReverseGTRschestowitz: I know Dell's stunt with Ubuntu was strictly marketing since I don't see them sold any longerSep 21 22:02
schestowitzThe Silverlight bundle, the toolbars, the OOXML lobby, the Home Server relationship. They also made some major deal back in early 2007.Sep 21 22:02
schestowitzSpeaking of which, they are said to have been involved in those Vista collusions that /still/ have Microsoft in court facing class action.Sep 21 22:03
ReverseGTRschestowitz: maybe if HP has their own distro it will run as an "enlightened guest" on MS's Hyper-V.Sep 21 22:03
schestowitzWell, rPath would be a fit. They collaborate with Microsoft (they actually sponsored them) and they liaised with Novell.Sep 21 22:04
schestowitzWhat makes it so bizarre is their Red Hat roots.. They turned to SUSE after reportedly being rejected and turned away by Red Hat and another which I can't recall for sure... maybe Canonical.Sep 21 22:05
ReverseGTRschestowitz: so you are stating that MS's Hyper-V will actually be the next version of rPath?Sep 21 22:05
schestowitzNo, not quite.Sep 21 22:05
schestowitzrPath gives tools for Linux appliances that are custom made.Sep 21 22:05
schestowitzAs I understand it, business X can use their services to build a distro Y for good deployment. Now... that can be put on a PC as a VM.Sep 21 22:06
ReverseGTRschestowitz: well it stated in the Novell SUSE for MS Hyper-V article that Canonical had a hand in developing.Sep 21 22:06
schestowitzWhatever goes below (a VM layer... middleware _so to speak_) is a separate matter.Sep 21 22:06
schestowitzWatch what ASUS has been doing... virtualising WIndows /under/ Linux in Express Gate.Sep 21 22:07
ReverseGTRok so they pretty much create or optimize applications and drivers to run or run smoother in VMSep 21 22:07
schestowitzPhoenix also and Microsoft wasn't happy... changed it EULA and got stung by antitrust, then forced to retract the trickery.Sep 21 22:07
schestowitzLastly you have Dell, which is putting Linux as based, as standard. Many laptops will boot Linux by defauly.Sep 21 22:08
schestowitzReverseGTR: rBuilder is their main product, I believe.Sep 21 22:08
ReverseGTRschestowitz: awesome, so it was more then a marketing stunt afterallSep 21 22:08
ReverseGTRfor DellSep 21 22:08
schestowitzTheir ease of creation is the selling point, but I could be wrong. It needs studying.Sep 21 22:09
schestowitzYou could build your distro using a Web UI and then d/l it.Sep 21 22:09
schestowitzReverseGTR: it's a separate thing.Sep 21 22:09
schestowitzThey spoke about it in LinuxWOrld 2007, IIRC>Sep 21 22:09
schestowitzMaybe a bit later. Let me pull  my reds.Sep 21 22:09
schestowitzrefsSep 21 22:09
schestowitzHere's one: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.ad...Sep 21 22:10
schestowitzLittle more here, but I want to find the older ones: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linu...Sep 21 22:11
schestowitzYes, they dropped clues in LinuxWorld 2007 (IDG). Found it:  http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocac...Sep 21 22:12
schestowitzhttp://weblog.infoworld.com/virtualization/ar... : Dell Creating Consumer PCs Complete with VirtualizationSep 21 22:13
schestowitzhttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/... : Dell to stuff hypervisors in flash memorySep 21 22:13
ReverseGTRschestowitz: speaking of Windows on Maemo Linux virtualization here is a 3.1 on the DOS emulator DOSBOX: http://www.pdatoday.com/index.php/weblo...Sep 21 22:13
schestowitzhttp://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070808-d... : Dell considers bundling virtualization on motherboardsSep 21 22:13
schestowitzLast one: http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/soa/Linux-and-virt... : Linux and virtualisation are ideal partners: DellSep 21 22:13
schestowitzWasn't Windows 'emulated' of VMed inside DOS until Win98?Sep 21 22:14
ReverseGTRschestowitz: I didn't think it was emulated I thought M$ just kept some legacy drivers around so 3.1 apps can runSep 21 22:15
ReverseGTRschestowitz: oh oops, I meant that DOS was the kernel and Windows was the APISep 21 22:15
ReverseGTRthat is how I always thought the relationship was with Windows and DOS with the exception of NT4Sep 21 22:16
schestowitzThere was a huge thread about it that I started in USENET a while back.Sep 21 22:16
schestowitzI'm no Windows guru, so I stayed out of it.Sep 21 22:16
schestowitzLater came a sort of rebuttal: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os...Sep 21 22:17
ReverseGTRschestowitz: I always thought that Windows relied on DOS, but less and less through the years (with the exception of NT4) until XP came out which started out as a spruced up version of Windows 2000 (which is based on NT4).Sep 21 22:17
ReverseGTRok I guess DOS was already becoming pretty insignifigant when it came to running apps and elements of the API by Windows 95. I guess it is just a testament how Microsoft dragged their feet when it came to further developing the OS for customers.Sep 21 22:19
ReverseGTRschestowitz: anyway, I g2g and thanks for the links.Sep 21 22:22
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schestowitzneighborlee: any news on Mono? Been a busy day in the comments about Mono.Sep 21 22:42
twitterWin3.1 on doxbox.  That's worked out since Etch.  Seems almost stable under Lenny.  Wine is easier and more useful.  Virtualbox should do the nastiest of legacy stuff.Sep 21 22:59
twitterDon't need any of it myself now.Sep 21 23:00
twitterAs for Windows code, it seems to be some of the stalest code in the world.  Things are patched onto it, bugs remain.Sep 21 23:01
schestowitzThe looks of Windows XP evoke repulsion, but it can be skinned. I hardly see it though... just in YouTube videos and screenshot.Sep 21 23:01
twitterXP is more than ugly, it's annoying.  Lots of intrusive popups, no virtual desktops to hide them.Sep 21 23:02
schestowitzIn Windows 95 there was a delete-freeze bug that stayed there for almost 10 years, IIRC.Sep 21 23:02
schestowitzI once saw this happening when a colleague deleted some files. I could not believe my eyes. Later someone in USENET explained it.Sep 21 23:03
twitterAbout the lowest thing I've seen, outside of the Gator Purple Ape, is the AOL Burger King buddy.Sep 21 23:04
schestowitzIt was two things actually: 1) the computer froze for like 10 minutes (yes, that's 'normal'); 2) seletion was painfully slow. No GUI-free/CLI option for it.Sep 21 23:04
schestowitzKDE had a similar big, but not so severe. I posted it to Digg yesterday: http://digg.com/linux_unix/KDE_32_times_faster_de...Sep 21 23:05
schestowitzAlso made the front page some hours ago: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Linux_Can_... (brought down Linux Today. *LOL*)Sep 21 23:05
twitterI saw a flashing, always on top screen on a classmate's computer and asked him about it.  He calmly explained that it was an advertisement "buddy" that was a cost of using his chat client.Sep 21 23:06
twittergoing to look at linksSep 21 23:06
schestowitzMicrosoft tests similar costs. Spying and adverts as part of a 'free' (gratis) O/S. Since they already give it for free in most countries -- and to schools that threaten to go GNU/Linux -- then I guess it't the smart thing for Microsoft to do.Sep 21 23:08
twitterI've had problems from time to time using Konqueror 3.5x to copy directories by sftp.  Sometimes the nested files don't go through.  grsync works every time.Sep 21 23:12
schestowitzI never had such a problem experienced.Sep 21 23:12
schestowitzI used to be using gftpSep 21 23:12
schestowitzWhen I used KDE 3.1 anyway... it seems not to have supported SFTP properly.. just FTP, but I can't recall for sure.Sep 21 23:13
twitterCan't remember as far back as Woody anymore.  I do have a hard drive to check, but I think konqueror did sftp then.Sep 21 23:15
twitterAuthentication was not as slick.Sep 21 23:15
schestowitzI sometimes use Konqy to upload pictures and videos to BNSep 21 23:16
schestowitzThe WordPress uploaded doesn't get along with the server when large files are attempted.Sep 21 23:16
twitterThe problem got me the other month using Lenny, which is still in testing.  You won't see it unless you have three or four levels of depth.Sep 21 23:17
twitterThe directory structure is put in place but files don't make it to depth.Sep 21 23:17
schestowitzHave yo reported the bug yet. Will help everyone.Sep 21 23:18
schestowitzHave you reported the bug yet? Will help everyone.Sep 21 23:18
twitterI think the bug was fixed again, but I always copy and check now.  If it's big and important, I use grsync.Sep 21 23:18
twitterLike I said, the bug has come and gone and it has been rare.  I've only been hit two or three times over 8 years.Sep 21 23:19
twitter:)Sep 21 23:19
schestowitzWhich version?Sep 21 23:20
schestowitz..of KDE?Sep 21 23:20
twitterKonqueror 3.5.9 using same KDE.Sep 21 23:22
twitterA picture copy failed me the other day.Sep 21 23:23
twitterWorked the last time I tried it.Sep 21 23:23
schestowitzI should be creful then and check for 404sSep 21 23:23
twitterYou won't see it on single picture and video moves.  It looked like a nesting problem.Sep 21 23:25
twitterChecking for 404s won't hurt though.Sep 21 23:25
schestowitzIt's too much to run through.Sep 21 23:26
schestowitzJust looked through the 404 log for schestowitz.comSep 21 23:26
schestowitzBN outgrew my personal site in terms of traffic. :-oSep 21 23:26
schestowitzInteresting that "how does short selling work" was the exact search phrase that brought 80 people to my site. People are curious about the frauds now...Sep 21 23:30
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IRC Proceedings: Friday, May 24, 2024
IRC logs for Friday, May 24, 2024