Bonum Certa Men Certa

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 21st, 2008 - Part 1

GNOME Gedit



Enter the IRC channel now







twitterYes, one of M$'s favorite tricks is to tell everyone that ALL software sucks like their software sucks.  See Benjie above for an example of that.Sep 21 00:08
schestowitzThere are articles about that, but a friend of mine can't find them. It's probably "Murphy"Sep 21 00:10
schestowitz"All software is insecure. Deal with it."Sep 21 00:10
benJImancj: Quite a good article modulo some incorrect java trolling.Sep 21 00:10
cjbenJIman: I told him as muchSep 21 00:19
twitterHere are a few articles about accounting fraud at CA.  http://www.stargeek.com/item/67091.htmlSep 21 00:30
twitterNothing related to M$ other than similar methods.Sep 21 00:30
schestowitzhttp://findarticles.com/p/articles...Sep 21 00:34
schestowitzBurgum resigned lasr year, IIRC.Sep 21 00:34
twitterCA, it seems, was important to M$'s entry to "enterprise" computing.  http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res...Sep 21 00:36
schestowitzMissing article from ECT: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient...Sep 21 00:36
schestowitzWere you here the other day when we discusses CA corruptions going all the way to the top?Sep 21 00:36
twitterI saw some CA discussion yesterday.Sep 21 00:38
twitterYou asked me to look into M$ connections.  I did not find much.Sep 21 00:39
schestowitzhttp://www.sec.gov/news/press/2002-71.htmSep 21 00:39
schestowitz"The Securities and Exchange Commission today announced charges in separate cases against former executives at three northern California software companies for perpetrating financial accounting frauds at those companies. "Sep 21 00:40
schestowitz""Among those named were the former chief executive officer of Quintus Corp., the former chief executive and chief financial officers of Unify Corp., and former senior sales executives of Legato Systems, Inc. Also today, the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Northern District of California announced criminal charges against former officers at Quintus and Unify for their roles in the frauds."Sep 21 00:40
schestowitzhttp://blogs.zdnet.com/open-... (Liddell destroying Microsoft from within)Sep 21 00:40
twitter2002 ... is this related to 2004 about CA's Kumar stepping down?Sep 21 00:41
twitterAtta-boy Liddell!Sep 21 00:41
schestowitz NZ First facing 'serious and complex fraud' inquiry [Clark knew of conflict of evidence in February]  http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/art...Sep 21 00:41
schestowitzMicrosoft's Liddell is from NZ, IIRC. Paper industry... the previous CFO left MicrosoftSep 21 00:42
schestowitzThe article about mentioned a "SFO Grant Liddell". I wonder if there could be a relation.Sep 21 00:42
schestowitzInt'l Paper CFO Chris Liddell to become Microsoft CFO By Heather Wilson Last update: 3:22 p.m. EDT April 25, 2005 http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/intl-paper-cfo-...Sep 21 00:45
schestowitzFrom Int'l Paper  to a software company then. I remembered correctly.Sep 21 00:45
schestowitzMaybe he knows how to cook those papers... or books.Sep 21 00:45
twitterDon't know but Blankenhorn seems unaware of previous buying binges/destruction of rivals by M$.  Backup software in the 90's, for  example.  They bought up everyone and provided their customers with crap that did not work.Sep 21 00:46
schestowitzhttp://query.nytimes.com/g... : Microsoft has hired Christopher Liddell, left, as its chief financial officer, replacing John Connors. Mr. Liddell was previously chief finance officer at International Paper.Sep 21 00:46
schestowitzMind you, if Microsoft's revenue increased, then Bill buddy Nathan wouldn't be asked by him to find new revenue sources (patents), but he wasSep 21 00:47
twitterThere are other examples.  Spyglass browser, the AV market and so on.  They pay out less as time goes on.Sep 21 00:47
twitterM$ has the best picture of anyone of how badly Vista and Office are selling (or not).Sep 21 00:48
schestowitzhttp://www.forbes.com/finance/mktguideapps/person... " Mr. Connors, 49, a director since 2005, is a partner in Ignition Partners LLC, a Seattle-area venture capital firm. Mr. Connors served as Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer of Microsoft Corporation from December 1999 to May 2005."Sep 21 00:49
twitterThe rest of us can see things like hardware gluts and large retailer failures.Sep 21 00:49
twitterinteresting.  nice hunting.Sep 21 00:49
schestowitzHere is his company: Ignition Partners LLCSep 21 00:49
schestowitzhttp://www.ignitionpartners.com/Sep 21 00:50
schestowitzLet's see where he puts $$Sep 21 00:50
schestowitzhttp://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient...Sep 21 00:51
schestowitzThis shows that quite a few Softies are there. Shades of IV and Acacia..Sep 21 00:51
schestowitzWTF?Sep 21 00:51
schestowitzhttp://www.ignitionpartners.com/people/...Sep 21 00:52
schestowitzThat's the vandal! The "tilt into the death spiral" guy.Sep 21 00:52
schestowitzhttp://www.ignitionpartners.com/people/ven... "Prior to Ignition, Martin spent more than 15 years in operating roles in technology companies, including four years at Loudeye Technologies and six years with Microsoft."Sep 21 00:52
schestowitzhttp://www.ignitionpartners.com/people/partne... "Prior to joining Ignition, Richard spent 16 years at Microsoft Corporation in several leadership roles including serving in the executive staff as a division level vice president."Sep 21 00:52
schestowitzhttp://www.ignitionpartners.com/pe... "Prior to Ignition, Cameron spent thirteen years with Microsoft Corporation, most recently as Vice President of the Internet Customer Unit, where he was responsible for building business relationships with network operators and a broad range of telecommunications providers."Sep 21 00:53
schestowitz Cameron Myhrvold, PARTNER ---- is he related to Nathan??Sep 21 00:53
schestowitzhttp://www.ignitionpartners.com/peopl... "Prior to Ignition, John spent 11 years Microsoft where he most recently served at Vice President of Product Development. "Sep 21 00:54
schestowitzhttp://www.ignitionpartners.com/peopl... "Prior to Ignition, John spent over 8 years at Microsoft in various senior marketing and strategy positions. "Sep 21 00:54
twitterIck, what does Ignition do with all these frauds?Sep 21 00:54
schestowitzMind the fact that this site is PHP-powered. :-)Sep 21 00:54
schestowitztwitter: it was created (I think) by the Microsoft CFO who leftSep 21 00:55
schestowitzhttp://www.ignitionpartners.com/pe... "Prior to Ignition, Jon spent nine years at Microsoft Corporation in several strategic roles..."Sep 21 00:55
twitterTaking your idea to these guys is like taking your baby girl to a shark tank.Sep 21 00:55
schestowitzhttp://www.ignitionpartners.com/people/... "Prior to Ignition, Rich spent 12 years at Microsoft where he most recently served as Vice President of Marketing for MS Office and BackOffice."Sep 21 00:56
twitterShark says, "We sure know a lot about eating, let us feed and grow your baby."Sep 21 00:56
schestowitztwitter: there might be Nathan's brother there.Sep 21 00:56
schestowitzI reckon this might be a Microsoft spinoff so to speak that can invest in Microsoft's intrests.Sep 21 00:56
schestowitzhttp://www.ignitionpartners.com/peo... "Prior to Ignition, Carolyn spent five years at Microsoft, most recently, as the Director of Worldwide Business Strategy,"Sep 21 00:57
schestowitzhttp://www.ignitionpartners.com/people/part... "Prior to joining Ignition, John spent sixteen years at Microsoft Corporation in several strategic roles. "Sep 21 00:57
schestowitzhttp://www.ignitionpartners.com/people/pa... "Prior to Ignition Roberts spent 13 years at Microsoft, most recently as General Manager of the Windows CE Intelligent Appliance Division"Sep 21 00:58
schestowitzhttp://www.ignitionpartners.com/people/pri... "Prior to joining Ignition Michelle worked as an independent consultant at Microsoft where she developed the initial business plans for products in the enterprise server space."Sep 21 00:58
twitterCould be.  One Softie firm to steal ideas, another to snuff them out.Sep 21 00:58
schestowitzAlmost the whole company is just MicrosoftSep 21 00:59
schestowitzNothing in the Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit...Sep 21 00:59
twitterDo they have any testimonials?Sep 21 01:00
twitterHere's an article on Intellectual Vultures http://techdirt.com/articles/2008...Sep 21 01:00
schestowitzhttp://seattlepi.nwsource.com/vent... "But the Bellevue venture capital firm, which raised more than $300 million last fall and recently hired former Microsoft Chief Financial Officer John Connors, is looking to move upstream with its investing tactics."Sep 21 01:00
schestowitzOn the side you can see Todd Bishop. He's cover Microsoft for ages and jumped ship the other day.Sep 21 01:01
schestowitzThe more paranoid side of me says it may have to do with the future he sees. http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/...Sep 21 01:02
schestowitzThat's a lot of money that needs to come from somewhere: http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/...Sep 21 01:02
schestowitzhttp://slated.org/microsoft_loses_90_bi...Sep 21 01:03
schestowitz(in market value anyway)Sep 21 01:03
twitterThe ignition favico is a lot like a hurricane warning flag http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/Hu...Sep 21 01:03
schestowitzLet's try to see what they put money in. They can serve as a Microsoft wing.Sep 21 01:03
twitterholy crap, check out all of the ignition companies http://www.ignitionpartners.com/portfolio/Sep 21 01:04
twitterXenSourceSep 21 01:04
twitteravogadroSep 21 01:04
schestowitz"Ignition was founded in early 2000 by a team of former senior McCaw Cellular, AT&T Wireless and Microsoft executives." ( http://slated.org/microsoft_loses_90_billion_dollars )Sep 21 01:05
schestowitzOops: http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/stories/2004/10...Sep 21 01:05
schestowitz XenSource??????/Sep 21 01:06
schestowitzAha!Sep 21 01:06
twitterLots of "independent" people to stack panels with.Sep 21 01:06
schestowitzXenSource moves to Seattle just before Microsoft scooped them using Xen (to avoid GPL and FTC)Sep 21 01:06
twitterCitrix bought them, claims ignition.Sep 21 01:06
schestowitzhttp://www.ignitionpartners.com/portfoli... "XenSource (acquired by Citrix)"Sep 21 01:07
schestowitzThat's like saying: "we gave them money, they came to Seattle, a Microsoft GM became a leader there (I can't recall which position, and Microsoft's bride then bought them"Sep 21 01:07
schestowitzBut who is that Myhrvold, I wonder...Sep 21 01:08
schestowitzAha!Sep 21 01:09
schestowitz"Myhrvold is the highest profile executive to take a break from Microsoft but he's part of a growing trend. Several months ago, his brother, Cameron Myhrvold, who was vice president of Microsoft's Internet customer unit, testified for Microsoft in the antitrust case, left Microsoft. "Sep 21 01:10
schestowitzSo Nathan (patent troll and Gates' buddy) is the bother of Cameron from Ignition.Sep 21 01:10
schestowitzBoth located in WA and serving Microsoft from outside (arguable at this stage)Sep 21 01:11
schestowitzHere is the source: http://www.forbes.com/1999/05/31/AS...Sep 21 01:11
twitterThe case history will tell the story.  If they take M$ start up money and then piss all over free software projects, we know it's another SCO like attack by proxy.Sep 21 01:12
schestowitz*LOL* That's him, isn't it? http://www.new.facebook.com/peopl... Drinking wine like a homeless guy...Sep 21 01:13
twitterIf they don't just take on M$ friendly lawsuits, they are just another patent troll.  M$ ethics either way.Sep 21 01:13
schestowitz*nod*Sep 21 01:14
schestowitzWhat's RLX?Sep 21 01:15
schestowitzhttp://www.ignitionpartners.com/portfolio/por...Sep 21 01:15
twittersomething to do with Linux.Sep 21 01:17
schestowitzWatch this headline: http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/s...Sep 21 01:17
schestowitz"Ignition Partners-backed XenSource sells for $500M"Sep 21 01:17
schestowitz"XenSource Inc., a technology company backed by Ignition Partners of Bellevue, has agreed to be acquired by Citrix Systems Inc. for about $500 million in cash and stock."Sep 21 01:17
twitterhttp://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom...Sep 21 01:17
twittersome kind of server management companySep 21 01:17
schestowitzTranslation: a company that was all about GPL and Linux is now backed by top Microsoft seniors, who wed the company with Microsoft's bride Citrix.Sep 21 01:18
schestowitz"Vendor capture," as zoobab puts it.Sep 21 01:18
twitterWorks with winblows, no surprise.  http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/servers/...Sep 21 01:19
twitterIt could have been grown by them all along.  What you see however, is a buy out of all sorts of Linux management software.Sep 21 01:20
schestowitzhttp://www.it-co.biz/c...Sep 21 01:20
schestowitzEx-Microsoft's exec Gordon Mangione joins XenSource... "Gordon Mangione, who headed up SQL Server and security duties at Microsoft before leaving last year, is now surfacing at Xensource as senior vice president of products and operations. "Sep 21 01:20
schestowitz"Since leaving Microsoft last November, Mangione has worked with both VC Ignition Partners and Lockdown Networks, a maker of network access control technology."Sep 21 01:20
schestowitzINERSep 21 01:21
schestowitzINTER~1 INTER~1 INTER~1 INTER~1 INTER~1 BILITY^H^H^H^H "The move makes sense for Xensource, an open-source virtualization specialist that is seeking to boost interop with Microsoft technologies."Sep 21 01:21
schestowitzDo indeed they took the company, gave it some money, planted some Microsoft people inside and then gave it away to CitricsoftSep 21 01:22
schestowitzAnyway, I'm off to bed. Tomorrow...Sep 21 01:24
twitterNight night, don't think they will be able to buy http://www.nagios.org/about/Sep 21 01:25
*ZiggyFish (n=brendan@123-243-163-103.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 02:03
twitterholy crap.  $700 Billion http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2...Sep 21 02:41
twitterOverseen by a "dictator"Sep 21 02:45
twitterable to buy foreign and domesticSep 21 02:46
ZiggyFishhttp://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2008/09/... - They fucked this one up as wellSep 21 03:15
*neighborlee (n=neighbor@unaffiliated/neighborlee) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 03:29
*ZiggyFish has quit ("Leaving.")Sep 21 03:37
*[H]omer has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Sep 21 04:19
*MinceR has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Sep 21 04:19
*ChanServ has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Sep 21 04:19
*libervisco has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Sep 21 04:19
*AVRS2 has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Sep 21 04:19
*cozub has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Sep 21 04:19
*zoobab has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Sep 21 04:19
*twitter has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Sep 21 04:19
*logger_bot has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Sep 21 04:19
*neighborlee has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Sep 21 04:19
*cj has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Sep 21 04:19
*benJIman has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Sep 21 04:19
*tessier_ has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)Sep 21 04:19
*[H]omer (n=[H]omer@moscow.perfect-privacy.com) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 04:25
*seller (n=lucian@189-46-26-79.dsl.telesp.net.br) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 04:25
*neighborlee (n=neighbor@unaffiliated/neighborlee) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 04:25
*libervisco (n=daniel@tuxhacker/libervisco) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 04:25
*tessier_ (n=treed@wsip-70-164-113-4.sd.sd.cox.net) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 04:25
*AVRS2 (n=AVRS2@wikimedia/AVRS) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 04:25
*MinceR (n=mincer@unaffiliated/mincer) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 04:25
*cozub (i=[U2FsdGV@linux.fjfi.cvut.cz) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 04:25
*zoobab (i=zoobab@vic.ffii.org) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 04:25
*twitter (n=willhill@68.225.99.100) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 04:25
*benJIman (n=benji@benjiweber.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 04:25
*cj (n=cjac@pdpc/supporter/monthlybronze/cj) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 04:25
*logger_bot (n=roy@baine.smb.man.ac.uk) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 04:25
*ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 04:25
*irc.freenode.net gives channel operator status to [H]omer ChanServSep 21 04:25
*seller_ (n=lucian@189.46.26.79) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 05:03
*seller_ has quit (Remote closed the connection)Sep 21 05:06
*seller has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Sep 21 05:22
*dennis_ (n=dennis@58.172.128.150) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 06:49
dennis_Hello all... I'm DennisSep 21 06:50
dennis_Is it true that mono is bad because of microsoft?Sep 21 06:50
dennis_Someone told me that you can use monoSep 21 06:50
dennis_ok, i guess its not a prlem thanSep 21 06:53
*dennis_ has quit ("Leaving")Sep 21 06:55
*dennis_ (n=dennis@58.172.128.150) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 07:00
dennis_Hello?Sep 21 07:00
dennis_I want to know the thruthSep 21 07:00
dennis_Wow... You all dicksSep 21 07:02
dennis_Fuck u allSep 21 07:04
dennis_ms rulesSep 21 07:04
dennis_schestowiz you are stupidSep 21 07:04
dennis_hahaSep 21 07:04
*dennis_ has quit (Client Quit)Sep 21 07:05
*dennis_ (n=dennis@58.172.128.150) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 07:06
dennis_wat? nothing? Hahaha/.... to afraidSep 21 07:06
dennis_microsoft is good for computesSep 21 07:06
dennis_novell toSep 21 07:07
*dennis_ has quit (Client Quit)Sep 21 07:07
*lucian (n=lucian@189.46.26.79) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 07:11
*lucian is now known as seller_liarSep 21 07:11
*dennis_ (n=dennis@58.172.128.150) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 07:31
dennis_hello?Sep 21 07:32
dennis_nobody?Sep 21 07:32
*dennis_ (n=dennis@58.172.128.150) has left #boycottnovell ("Leaving")Sep 21 07:33
*[H]omer has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Sep 21 07:34
*[H]omer (n=[H]omer@moscow.perfect-privacy.com) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 07:52
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to [H]omerSep 21 07:52
schestowitzhttp://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog... "Microsoft has turned into the biggest patent troll in the world. The only thing that makes any sense is that some attorney in their employ is considering that a defensive move to prevent other bottom feeders from suing Microsoft. "Sep 21 08:07
*trmanco (n=trmanco@bl8-227-169.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 08:21
schestowitzThe world is recognising something obvious (which Ballmer and the SEC filing have admitted for years): http://vista.blorge.com/2008/09/19/is-l... "The various distributions of Linux most likely pose the greatest threat to Windows Vista overall- why you ask?"Sep 21 09:14
*dsmith_ (n=dsmith@c-76-114-142-224.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 10:01
*dsmith_ has quit (Remote closed the connection)Sep 21 10:26
*ZiggyFish (n=brendan@123-243-163-103.static.tpgi.com.au) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 10:39
*ZiggyFish has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))Sep 21 11:31
*moparx has quit ("leaving")Sep 21 11:51
*moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 11:52
AVRS2Do patents get more publicity lately? Or are their holders worried about them? More and more ads mentions patents. Now there are patent-only ads on TV…Sep 21 12:17
AVRS2(showing crashtest, then in reverse, with caption: 1755 inventions will protect you … 4xxx more will …)Sep 21 12:18
AVRS2Guess I haven't misheard or forgot it… searching for "nissan microsoft" shows lots of different things.Sep 21 12:24
AVRS2s/ad/commercial/Sep 21 12:24
*seller_liar has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Sep 21 12:35
*lucian_ (n=lucian@189-46-26-79.dsl.telesp.net.br) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 12:35
*tommyd (n=tommyd@f053096132.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 12:41
*AVRS2 has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))Sep 21 12:48
*moparx has quit ("leaving")Sep 21 12:51
*AVRS2 (n=AVRS2@wikimedia/AVRS) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 12:52
*moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 13:34
*lucian_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Sep 21 13:48
*tommyd has quit ()Sep 21 13:53
*tommyd (n=tommyd@f053096132.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 13:55
*tommyd has quit ()Sep 21 14:01
*tommyd (n=tommyd@f053096132.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 14:02
*tommyd has quit ()Sep 21 14:11
*trmanco has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Sep 21 14:40
*pombat42 (n=pombat42@ool-182dda9f.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 14:45
*trmanco (n=trmanco@bl8-226-90.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 14:52
*roybixler (i=57b358a8@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-71a69b2abc564d74) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 14:59
roybixlerI've been travelling and have been kind of out of touch for a while.  But here is an interesting site: http://www.racketiciel.info/Sep 21 15:01
roybixlerIt's French and the name is a combination of "logiciel" (software) and "racket" (obvious)Sep 21 15:02
roybixlerI heard about this site from a story in Le Monde, where they covered this French group against the Microsoft tax.Sep 21 15:03
roybixlerMy 2 centimes for now ...Sep 21 15:03
*roybixler has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client")Sep 21 15:04
*trmanco has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Sep 21 15:10
*tommyd (n=tommyd@f053096132.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 15:18
*neighborlee has quit ("This is my custom quit message : I am quitting now, - bye cu l8r g8r.")Sep 21 15:32
*_Doug (i=c17a2faa@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3ca9b91ed0eb2537) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 15:35
*neighborlee (n=leebojam@24.16.56.222) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 15:53
_DougDon't mind me, I'm just keeping an EYE on ROY .. :)Sep 21 16:05
_Doughttp://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?...Sep 21 16:05
_DougIF you don't like emacs then you ain't a real techieSep 21 16:06
_DougI met a techie for old Yahoo and he designed his bit on four BASH screens running emacs ..Sep 21 16:06
schestowitzHey, _Doug Sep 21 16:12
schestowitzWrong question: boot duration. The question should be how often is it necessary to take it down/hibernate.Sep 21 16:13
benJIman http://ask.slashdot.org/article.p...Sep 21 16:13
benJIman17:08:47 < _Doug> IF you don't like emacs then you ain't a real techieSep 21 16:13
benJImanhttp://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl...Sep 21 16:13
benJImanoopsSep 21 16:13
schestowitzAVRS2: there's a patent fever, I think, but it overlaps with patent revolt (predictable, ain't it?)Sep 21 16:14
twitterIf you worry about boot time you need to find more dependable software with better power management.Sep 21 16:14
schestowitzSub-notebooks and ASUS boards have Linux boot within seconds.Sep 21 16:15
twitterIt's painful to watch people booting their computers, especially laptops.Sep 21 16:16
twitterI use APM on an old Thinkpad.  It works great.Sep 21 16:16
twitterI close the lid, it sleeps.  I open the lid and my work is where I left it.Sep 21 16:16
twitterClosing the lid takes no time.  Wake up takes a few seconds.Sep 21 16:17
twitterI have not used my daughter's EEEPC enough to know if it is as dependable as the Thinkpads are but it seems to work.Sep 21 16:18
schestowitzMy Windows 98 laptop (last Windows machine) could hibernate or stand by. Not too sure if progress has been made since. I hear that Vista takes ages to boot.Sep 21 16:20
*libervisco has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))Sep 21 16:20
_DougEmbedded hardware , noharddrive, no backlight ..Sep 21 16:26
_Dougat least one that don't need a backlight in daylight ..Sep 21 16:26
_DougAnd a low power mode . .eg the clock slows down .. almost to 100 htz ?Sep 21 16:26
_Dougoh .. what agile innovation .. :)Sep 21 16:27
_Dougeliminate the bios and boot sequence .. now that's what I call INNOV~1Sep 21 16:27
schestowitzIt can be done. Hold on... there's already something on the way...Sep 21 16:28
_Dougyea, design it so as you can halt the clock ..Sep 21 16:28
schestowitzhttp://www.osnews.com/story/19661/A_...Sep 21 16:30
_DougAn LCD display when not being updated consums zero power, yea ?Sep 21 16:30
twitterWindows never got power management right.  Applications like Word would bomb on wake up.  Then APCI was a huge step backwards.  http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/183403Sep 21 16:30
_DougSo when the keyboard isn't beign pressed switch off the clock .. and it's suspend mode with instant on ..Sep 21 16:30
schestowitzIntel also has some alternation for the current BIOS... can't recall what they call it.Sep 21 16:30
twitterWe can not trust Intel with power management.Sep 21 16:31
_Dougsuspend-hybernate-sleep .. are all a hack ..Sep 21 16:31
schestowitzCheck this one out: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS4716172415.htmlSep 21 16:32
_DougAll this discussion is so 1998 .. :)Sep 21 16:32
schestowitz"The PIC has been demonstrated running Linux, although versions of the device that were sold along with Internet service packages in developing nations reportedly blocked Linux at the BIOS level. "Sep 21 16:32
schestowitzAMD PIC snubs Linux : http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS...Sep 21 16:32
twitterStopping the clock on RAM will only work when memory is both fast and non volatileSep 21 16:32
schestowitzWARNING!! There is windows in my.. BIOS!!!! :  http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?p...Sep 21 16:33
_Doug AMD's (PIC) why did it fail ?Sep 21 16:33
_DougBecause it didn't have a major OEM behind it .. like DELL ?Sep 21 16:33
schestowitzIntel Expected to Open Next-gen BIOS Code in China : http://www.cabi.net.cn/view_article.php?id=469Sep 21 16:34
*libervisco (n=daniel@tuxhacker/libervisco) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 16:34
schestowitzIntel to make major UEFI announcement : http://apcmag.com/5845/intel_to_make_ma...Sep 21 16:34
schestowitzNo, Dell was bribed by IntelSep 21 16:35
schestowitzThey did illegal and secret kickbacks. Welcome to Wall Street! Where investors sue Dell for $1 billion in compensation for massive under-the-table kickbacks.Sep 21 16:35
_DougDell was bribed by Intel: any citations Schestowitz ?Sep 21 16:36
schestowitzYesSep 21 16:36
schestowitzThey don't call it "bribe" though. They embellish.Sep 21 16:36
_Dougot: 2GBs to type a letter .. GOOD GRIEF !!!!Sep 21 16:37
schestowitzLike Microsoft when it bribed a Nigerian official and called it "marketing help"Sep 21 16:37
schestowitzhttp://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/...Sep 21 16:37
_Dougwell a big DOH !! tell me something know ..Sep 21 16:37
_DougknewSep 21 16:37
_DougThis is about par for the cource, A does deal with B to squeeze C, later on B does deal with B to do it to A, welcome to market capitolism 101 ...Sep 21 16:39
_DougA->B screws C, B->C screws A ...Sep 21 16:40
schestowitzIBM collaborates/competes with Sun  collaborates/competes with Microsoft collaborates/competes with Novell... companies don't have partners... they have interests.Sep 21 16:42
_DougWell yea, I knew that already ..Sep 21 16:44
schestowitzIt harms consumers. The illusion that capitalism is competition, not collusion.Sep 21 16:45
_DougSpeaking of bribery, I once worked for a company where I became of irregularities as in they didn't know the fuck what they were on about.Sep 21 16:45
schestowitzJust watch how ATI and NVidia (IIRC) actually worked together on price-fixing.Sep 21 16:45
_DougWhen I brought it to managements attentionSep 21 16:45
schestowitzMaybe it was just an allegation, but GPUs are overpriced anywaySep 21 16:45
_DougThey hied me on for a special 'project' until my contract was up ..Sep 21 16:45
_DougWh oam I to refuse an extra €£2,000 :)Sep 21 16:45
schestowitz_Doug: Sep 21 16:45
_DoughiredSep 21 16:45
schestowitzSeen the Charlie story yet/Sep 21 16:46
schestowitz?Sep 21 16:46
_DougNo, what Charlie story ?Sep 21 16:46
schestowitzIt's common. That's how Microsoft silenced a whistleblower.Sep 21 16:46
schestowitzThe judge was convinced.Sep 21 16:46
schestowitzLet me find it. You don't follow COLA, so you must have missed it.Sep 21 16:46
_DougAhh .yea .. I ma familiar with the technigue . .:)Sep 21 16:46
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/26... http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/...Sep 21 16:47
schestowitzI guess you could still snitch on that company you worked for. Charlie, on the other hand, received a good sum to STFU and have the evidence destoryed.Sep 21 16:48
schestowitzBut wait, there's more.Sep 21 16:48
schestowitzThe whistleblowing story came back to MS 2 weeks ago, but in a different form.Sep 21 16:48
schestowitzHere is the story http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/15/mi... . I read in some places that he plans to sue  them for firing him after he had said the truth. It would surprise me if Microsoft will be sued and then 'pull a Charlie', i.e. pay his $millions to drop the suit and settle out of court. Sep 21 16:50
*trmanco (n=trmanco@bl8-226-224.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #boycottnovellSep 21 16:50
twitterDoug, the AMD PIC was sold in Radio Shacks.  It could have done well if it were hackable, but it was locked down.  Would you buy a device that would only run WinCE?Sep 21 16:50
_DougNope, locked down to what exactly ?Sep 21 16:51
schestowitzWelcome to 21st century justice. A justice where you can commit crime, sack people who snitch about it, bribe them to shut up having been fired (if necessary) and then corrupt the government to settle with the SEC too (see the Charlie saga again). Sep 21 16:51
_DougRoy: you sound shocked, welcome to the real world .. businesses massage the books, as long as it isn't outright fraud, then it's borderline acceptable.Sep 21 16:52
twitterThat is outright fraud.  Jail is part of the real world too.Sep 21 16:52
schestowitz_Doug: I'm not shocked, but I think the Net gives an opportunity to truthSep 21 16:53
_DougIn contrast to politicians walking through airport gates with suitcases full on money, then these are pure as the driven snow . .:)Sep 21 16:53
schestowitzI'm a big wikileaks fan.Sep 21 16:53
schestowitztwitter: in the 'real' world, rich people like Jobs can rarely end up in a cellSep 21 16:54
_DougThat's why the truth must be covered with a heap of lies and distortions, or at least the messenger discredited ..Sep 21 16:54
schestowitzMartha Stewart was a watch-and-learn exception.Sep 21 16:54
twitterIt's getting harder to discredit the messenger.Sep 21 16:54
schestowitzRobbie Bach did pretty much the same thing and he should be sent to prison (he's a Microsoft vice president BTW)Sep 21 16:55
_DougMartha Stewart: she was prosecuted for tax evasion, how is that shoot the messenger ?Sep 21 16:55
twitterTax evasion and inside trading.Sep 21 16:55
schestowitzYeswSep 21 16:55
_DougIf she was smart she wouldn't ever be caught .. should have kept her money in Switzerland ..Sep 21 16:55
schestowitzMicrosoft does bothSep 21 16:56
twittershe was an exception and one that proves the ruleSep 21 16:56
schestowitzThe tax breaks, however, it might as well be legalising by greasing up the right pollies.Sep 21 16:56
_DougI mean if anyone on the inside whistleblows, they are either bribed or discredited ..Sep 21 16:56
twitterthe freer flow of information will start nailing bigger targets sooner or later.Sep 21 16:56
_DougThe ship of bribes carries right on crusingSep 21 16:57
_DougStandby to be tared with 'subversive' or offered a job with a 'consuntancy' ;)Sep 21 16:57
_Dougtime for a break, keep an eye on Roy for me won't you benJIman :)Sep 21 16:58
schestowitz_Doug: the risk is increased thoughSep 21 16:59
trmancoschestowitz, you used a Portuguese based article, to prove a Astroturf thing on usenet :PSep 21 16:59
schestowitzThe hope is not the lock up society, but to keep people honest and prident.Sep 21 16:59
schestowitz*prudentSep 21 16:59
schestowitzYes. :-0Sep 21 16:59
schestowitzI know RuiSep 21 16:59
trmanco:DSep 21 16:59
schestowitzHe had lots of Astofluffers in his blog.Sep 21 17:00
schestowitzI wrote about it here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/12...Sep 21 17:00
trmanco:)Sep 21 17:03
trmancohtt p://www.bomahy.nl/hylke/blog/gnome-30-art-roadmap-first-draft/Sep 21 17:05
schestowitzhttp://www.bomahy.nl/hylke/blog/gnome-...Sep 21 17:06
schestowitzNo i can click it (it's faster)Sep 21 17:06
trmanco:PSep 21 17:06
schestowitzNo picture of monkeys?!?!Sep 21 17:07
trmanconopSep 21 17:07
schestowitz"I'd like to see Gnome applications written in .NET in version 4.0 - no, version 3.0. But Gnome 4.0 should be based on .NET," he told us. "A lot of people just see .NET as a fantastic upgrade for the development platform from Microsoft. ( http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/02/... )Sep 21 17:07
trmancoI just wanted to point out the banshee reference at the end of the pdfSep 21 17:08
trmancowho said that?Sep 21 17:08
trmancoMr.Icaza?Sep 21 17:08
schestowitzDoctor ActiveX.Sep 21 17:08
schestowitzlsSep 21 17:09
schestowitz.gdm.DLL startx.EXE .......Sep 21 17:09
trmancololSep 21 17:09
trmancogdm.dll has encountered an errorSep 21 17:10
schestowitzLook at the bright side. It'll be easier for AV vendors to adaptSep 21 17:10
schestowitzBSOM... no, not what you think... Blue Screen of Mono: http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uplo...Sep 21 17:11
trmancololSep 21 17:11
trmancoBsODM0NSep 21 17:12
schestowitzDemon? http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/up...Sep 21 17:13
_DougMicrosoft + Yahoo = Good, Google + Yahoo = bad, explain the logic ?Sep 21 17:22
schestowitzWho do you think is behind it?Sep 21 17:23
schestowitzhttp://news.google.com/news?hl=en&am...Sep 21 17:24
schestowitzI'm trying to find many articles that I saw last week.Sep 21 17:24
schestowitzSchmidt accused Microsoft of being pretty much the sole reason there was scrutiny. I have just one reference about it (there were many articles though). Hold on.Sep 21 17:25
schestowitzMicrosoft bought astroturfers against it, according to reports: http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2... : Corn Farmers Against Google?Sep 21 17:26
schestowitzhttp://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2008/08/2...  ( Google/Yahoo web ad deal on track despite anti-trust scrutiny )Sep 21 17:26
schestowitzhttp://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/20... ( Icahn and Microsoft to oust Yahoo board )Sep 21 17:26
schestowitzhttp://latimesblogs.latimes.com/... ( Microsoft cops to talking with Icahn on Yahoo )Sep 21 17:27
schestowitzhttp://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/20... ( Yahoo: Icahn “Manipulates The Facts” )Sep 21 17:27
schestowitzBut this one is the latest I was talking about : http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2008/09/18/goog... ( Google Blames Microsoft for Yahoo! Deal Controversy )Sep 21 17:28
schestowitzIt's a dejva vu 'cause Microsoft tried it before when it tried to buy DoubleClick (like Yahoo), but saw it going to Google at the end.Sep 21 17:29
schestowitz*deja . Let me get URLsSep 21 17:29
schestowitzhttp://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070816-microsoft-s... ( Microsoft trying to derail Google/DoubleClick deal by lobbying congress )Sep 21 17:29
schestowitzThey had the buyout postponed and gave Google a bad reputation: http://investing.reuters.co.uk/news/art... ( Google-Doubleclick deal likely to win OK - experts )Sep 21 17:30
schestowitzHere  you can see that Microsoft wanted to buy DoubleClick and was willing to pay more than Google: http://battellemedia.com/archives/003561.php ( News Analysis: Microsoft General Counsel on DoubleClick and Antitrust )Sep 21 17:31
schestowitzTo sum up: http://www.forbes.com/2007/03/06/microsoft-goo... ( Microsoft Befriends Google's Foes )Sep 21 17:32
twitterin the Wintel press, M$=good M$_competitor=bad.  M$ never was good at math, so they add or multiply both sides of either equation anyway they likeSep 21 17:45
_DougLenovo launches Linux netbook ?Sep 21 17:48
_Doughttp://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS4400501053.htmlSep 21 17:48
schestowitzNot in the US...Sep 21 17:48
schestowitzLenovo is bizarre.Sep 21 17:48
_Doug"for "certain overseas markets," a version of Linux (Linpus, in this case"Sep 21 17:48
schestowitzThey also neglected Red Hat (initially) from server, using SLES instead.Sep 21 17:48
schestowitzI'm waiting for a comment of mine to show up here (left it this morning): Microsoft’s “I’m a PC” Millions Actually Promoting the MacSep 21 17:49
schestowitzOops: http://www.sutor.com/newsite/blog-open/Sep 21 17:49
_Doughttp://www.desktoplinux.com/news...Sep 21 17:50
schestowitzI left a question: "As VP of standards, do you believe there is a chance that IBM will challenge the patent system? The goodwill gain would be tremendous. Just watch SGI."Sep 21 17:50
schestowitzIBM is still partly responsible for that Novell/Microsoft deal for all I can tellSep 21 17:50
_Doug? how ?Sep 21 17:52
_DougBy letting them sabatage OS/2 ?Sep 21 17:55
_DougIBM, the Personal Computer company that lost control of it's business, twice !Sep 21 17:56
schestowitzNo, waitSep 21 17:57
schestowitzI got information from someone who met Hovsepian some years back (he's from IBM BTW, much like Jaffe, the CTO)Sep 21 17:57
schestowitzMy thoughts about it are here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0...Sep 21 17:58
_DougWell, IBM 'supported' Linux from wayback .. but made sure not to actuallt own a distro, thet was very prescient of the Nazgûls ..Sep 21 18:01
_DougDidn't they recently release a Linux only desktop ?Sep 21 18:03
schestowitzLip service so far.Sep 21 18:03
schestowitzEither way, they didn't like Red Hat con trolling the server market, so they gave Novell a push. That's how the theory (which I think is very substantiated) goes.Sep 21 18:04
schestowitzThey handed out a large endowment for S.u.S.E. to marry the Ximian/Novell duo.Sep 21 18:05
_DougTo be fair, a bit more than lipservice .. I think ...Sep 21 18:07
_DougThey contribute to the kernel ..Sep 21 18:07
_DougGCC, GLIB, Apache ..Sep 21 18:08
_DougSAMBASep 21 18:08
schestowitzYes, they use a lot of that.Sep 21 18:09
_DougMy question is, what is their thinking behind not actually owning a distro ?Sep 21 18:09
schestowitz_Doug: public perception.Sep 21 18:09
schestowitzRemember that Washington company they hired many years ago?Sep 21 18:09
_Doug"public perception" of what ? not even this.Sep 21 18:10
schestowitzToo much control. I read that somewhere anyway.Sep 21 18:10
_DougThe reason is, it prevents them getting IBMed again .. yea ?Sep 21 18:10
schestowitzRed Hat?Sep 21 18:14
_Doughttp://www.tectonic.co.za/?p=3025Sep 21 18:14
_DougWhat about RedHat ?Sep 21 18:14
schestowitzWell, one could argue that Red Hat alone could get a "GNU/Linux monopoly" and use that to outgrow IBM as it develops. [theory /]Sep 21 18:14
schestowitzYes, I saw that when he published it.Sep 21 18:15
_Dougmonopoly: to get that they need to tie up the OEMs .. :)Sep 21 18:16
_DougWe're past where such a desktop monopoly could be achieved again.Sep 21 18:16
_DougUnless they go for a total stack, an OEM + an OS maker + a media provider + a telecom company (like comcast)Sep 21 18:18
_DougHe who has his foot on the hose, controls the InterPIPES .. :)Sep 21 18:18
_DougIn terms as to who has the most influence, it's the owner of the desktop OS, an historical distortion.Sep 21 18:19
schestowitzWell, I don't advocate Lotus for this reason.Sep 21 18:19
_Dougimho: it's the owner of the pipes and the hardware makers, as they have the power as to what OS goes onto the machine ..Sep 21 18:19
schestowitzIBM, like Novell, is still about cotnrol. Sun... a little less.Sep 21 18:19
_DougImagine what would happen if all the hardware manufacturers united and formed United OEMs !Sep 21 18:20
_DougThat would that leave the OS venders, the ISPs and the media owners ..Sep 21 18:21
schestowitzMedia has owners??Sep 21 18:22
schestowitzDepends on what you obtain. There's lots of CC stuff out there.Sep 21 18:23
_DougWell, yea, which is why it is a dumb idea to give away control of all your media ..Sep 21 18:23
schestowitzAs for ISPs, that's why we need wireless meshes... cut the middleman... which won't happen because they want central control for censorship and such.Sep 21 18:23
_DougI'm looking at the big picture .. here ...Sep 21 18:23
schestowitzAs for software, Free software is virtually /ownerless/. Share your code with mates..Sep 21 18:24
_DougRight now there is a desktop multimedia OS available, that is the equivilent to Windows. Why hasn't anyone snapped it up ?Sep 21 18:24
_DougMedia + Pipes + desktop + hardware, a license to print money !!!Sep 21 18:25
schestowitzFrom the moguls' point of view, your hard-drive, which is taxed by them (because you are 'criminal' by default) contains binaries that you rent (Mac OS or Windows) and a bunch of files that you license temporarily because of copyrights and DRM. IOW, you own nothing on your PCSep 21 18:25
_DougRemember comcast and the rest are going to wind down the pipes unless the get paid, same for BBC iPlayer, no-one is goitgn to carry it unless you pay them.Sep 21 18:26


Recent Techrights' Posts

[Meme] Clergy of GNU/Linux (Corporations Like IBM)
Volunteers as powerless "followers" of companies that "harvest" their labour
 
EPO Discriminates Against Families of Its Own Workers, the Union Explains Legal Basis Upon Which It's Likely Illegal and Must be Challenged
To the Council, the EPO boasts about its wealth (seeking to impress by how much breaking the law "pays off")
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Thursday, February 29, 2024
IRC logs for Thursday, February 29, 2024
Links 01/03/2024: Misuse of Surveillance Against UK-Based Journalism, EPO Conflict Now in the Media
Links for the day
Taking a Break From Paid Promotion of the Illegal, Unconstitutional Kangaroo Court for Patents (UPC)
JUVE returns to its 'roots'?
FSFE admits losing funds from bequest by insulting and ignoring Fellowship representative
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Gemini Links 29/02/2024: Raspberry Pi Incus Cluster and Aya 0.5.0 Coming Soon
Links for the day
Links 29/02/2024: Layoffs at Apple, Expedia, and Electronic Arts
Links for the day
Gemini Links 29/02/2024: Web Enshittification and Firefox user-agents
Links for the day
Spiked Piece/Censoreed Piece: 'Microsoft Copilot is a gimmick', says top CIO
Issues relate to connectivity and cost
Enrico Zini, Mattia Rizzolo, Plagiarism & Debian
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
There Will Be Lots More Apple Layoffs (Already Years in the Making)
The corporate media still tries to shape the narrative to prevent panic or delay market hysteria
Latest SUEPO (Staff Union of EPO) Report For The Hague Reveals EPO Does Not Obey Court Orders, Refuses to Allow Workers to Freely Talk to One Another
working in a place where communication itself is restricted
[Meme] The Oppression Will Continue Until EPO 'Quality' Improves
wonder why EPO morale is so low?
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Wednesday, February 28, 2024
IRC logs for Wednesday, February 28, 2024
Outreachy, GSoC-mentors & Debian-Private may soon become public records in federal court
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Links 28/02/2024: Many War Updates and Censorship
Links for the day
Gemini Links 28/02/2024: Social Control Media Notifications and Gemini Protocol Extended
Links for the day
Links 28/02/2024: Microsoft the Plagiarist is Projecting, Food Sector Adopts Surge Pricing
Links for the day
Helping Microsoft 'Hijack' Developers (to Make Them Work for Microsoft, Not the Competition)
VS Code is proprietary spyware of Microsoft. Jack Wallen keeps promoting its use.
Gemini Links 28/02/2024: Groupthink and the 'Problem' With Linux
Links for the day
Android Rising (Windows Down to All-Time Lows, Internationally)
This month was a bloodbath for Microsoft
HexChat Looks for Successors to Keep IRC Growing
IRC is far from dead
[Meme] Just Make Him Happy
Y U no produce more monopolies?
End of a Long February
top 10 posts
[Meme] The EPO's Relationship With Patent Examiners
Nobody is "safe"
New Pension Scheme (NPS) at the European Patent Office Explained at the General Assembly
Investing in the future, or...
Donald Trump & FSFE Matthias Kirschner election denial
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, February 27, 2024
IRC logs for Tuesday, February 27, 2024