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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 3rd, 2009 - Part 3


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schestowitzIt doesn't want Linux to take the leadMar 03 13:31
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schestowitztoros: that's an MS shillMar 03 13:32
schestowitzRichard Steel.Mar 03 13:32
torosyes, I figured it out... :)Mar 03 13:32
schestowitzAnd the guy who quotes him is also considered somewhat of a lackeyMar 03 13:32
oiaohmtech point of view Linux is inside a year.Mar 03 13:32
schestowitzThey are Microsoft's cronies in the UK the people from NewhamMar 03 13:32
schestowitzCorruption there tooMar 03 13:32
schestowitzI wrote about it in BNMar 03 13:32
schestowitz 03 13:33
*toros hates touchscreen :)Mar 03 13:34
schestowitztoros, oiaohm binky098: here's what I wanted to show you before the site went down: 03 13:34
MinceRoiaohm: m$ is so close behind?Mar 03 13:34
schestowitzIt says a lot about what Novell thinks of SUSEMar 03 13:35
schestowitzIt's just a carrier for stuff like SAP's waresMar 03 13:35
MinceRwhat's novell carrying over it?Mar 03 13:35
schestowitzThey want to distinguish themselves using .NET in Linux AND get hailed for itMar 03 13:35
schestowitzMinceR: over SUSE?Mar 03 13:35
MinceRyesMar 03 13:35
schestowitzObama's helicopter plans went to Iran < >Mar 03 13:36
schestowitzMinceR: all sort of things that run find on centosMar 03 13:36
schestowitzThere's still no ripoff SUSEMar 03 13:36
schestowitzNo-one wants to branch from itMar 03 13:37
schestowitzAnd Novell makes it hardMar 03 13:37
MinceRi understand, but what product does novell sell that relies on suse, but isn't suse itself?Mar 03 13:37
toros"As a mixed-source company", yes, we are all mixed source companies... :/Mar 03 13:37
schestowitzRHEL on the other hand has xos, centos, startcom, scientific, etc.Mar 03 13:37
MinceRis netware still kept alive btw?Mar 03 13:37
schestowitzMinceR: they put it in OESMar 03 13:37
schestowitzOES2Mar 03 13:37
MinceRicMar 03 13:38
schestowitzMinceR: I read yesterday about OELing of NetwareMar 03 13:38
MinceREOLing?Mar 03 13:38
schestowitzWhich had me surprised cause I read nothing of that sortMar 03 13:38
schestowitzYes, weird.Mar 03 13:38
schestowitzlet me find the commentMar 03 13:38
binky098MinceR: OES -- the replacement for netware from memory relies on SUSE.  Had to do a look at this for work before they went MS route. sighMar 03 13:38
MinceRi can understand that, but what are they going to sell afterward?Mar 03 13:38
MinceRinteresting, the netware i've seen only relied on dos and even that only for bootingMar 03 13:38
schestowitz 03 13:39
oiaohmMs leads in some points still MinceRMar 03 13:39
oiaohmLike Graphical not hiding kernel panics.Mar 03 13:39
schestowitz"I'm not a fan of the Novell/MS deal and I'm not happy about the EOL of Netware I'm a CNE 5&amp;6 and have always supported Netware and still do."Mar 03 13:39
MinceRoiaohm: lolMar 03 13:39
schestowitzSee, some of our trolls/aggravators are merely people whose career depends on NovellMar 03 13:40
oiaohmPower management is another.Mar 03 13:40
torosmoonlight will always far behind silverlight. That's just a trick of MS to prove that "Open source is years behind commercial products"Mar 03 13:40
torosthe same goes for monoMar 03 13:40
oiaohmBasically inside a year most of the major screwups inside Linux should disppear.Mar 03 13:40
MinceRso if novell EOLs netware and ignores suse, what are they going to make business from?Mar 03 13:40
schestowitztoros: yesMar 03 13:40
schestowitzAlso, it keeps regulators offMar 03 13:40
schestowitzEU regulators threatened MS over SilverlightMar 03 13:40
schestowitzSo Microsoft points at Novell's shoddy cr*pwareMar 03 13:40
MinceRi consider power management a part of hw support issue, which is mostly the job of hw vendorsMar 03 13:41
schestowitzThe States (US) made similar complaint about Silver LieMar 03 13:41
MinceR(who do a pretty bad job at it)Mar 03 13:41
oiaohmNot exactly.Mar 03 13:41
schestowitzMiguel de Icaza jumped up in some silly article where he's hailed as a hero ("I've got the solution")Mar 03 13:41
oiaohmLinux kernel frameworks for it have had to be reworked MinceRMar 03 13:41
schestowitzSpin doctorsMar 03 13:41
MinceRoiaohm: icMar 03 13:41
schestowitzYes, yes.. we at Novell can save MS from regulatorsMar 03 13:41
MinceRoiaohm: but that has already happened, hasn't it?Mar 03 13:41
schestowitzNoorda must be spinning in his graveMar 03 13:41
oiaohmThere is more in the pipe line MinceRMar 03 13:42
schestowitzDe Icaza is also against the EU regulatorsMar 03 13:42
MinceRicMar 03 13:42
schestowitzWhat a disgraceMar 03 13:42
oiaohmCurrently there is no good power management for GPU's.Mar 03 13:42
oiaohmIn the Linux design.Mar 03 13:42
oiaohmYep GPU can suck down more power than everythign on your motherboard.Mar 03 13:42
MinceRthat's to be expected anyway, isn't it?Mar 03 13:43
oiaohmWindows has had some poorly designed power management on GPU's.Mar 03 13:43
MinceRwhen some GPUs get special power connectors because the bus can't provide enoughMar 03 13:43
oiaohmPoorly designed is better than none.Mar 03 13:43
MinceRicMar 03 13:43
MinceRhow much of that is in the drivers and how much of it is in windows itself?Mar 03 13:43
oiaohmdrivers power management is triggered by the windows interfaces for it.Mar 03 13:44
torosLinux is far before Windows in many aspects... even on the desktop...Mar 03 13:44
schestowitzMS investors just mailed meMar 03 13:44
schestowitzMicrosoft wants RIMMar 03 13:44
torosbut people decide not just based on the technology itselfMar 03 13:44
schestowitzMonopolistic idiocyMar 03 13:45
oiaohmMost points MS leads will be gone before end of year.Mar 03 13:45
oiaohmMS lossing in a market must buy someone doing better.Mar 03 13:45
torosI hope ARM netbooks will be a great hitMar 03 13:45
MinceRcan they even afford RIM now?Mar 03 13:45
oiaohmFunny thing is research on gpu powermanagement has been interisting.Mar 03 13:47
oiaohmSome times prototype linux kernels running are pulling down less power than XP in power saving for video card even that the machine is in use.Mar 03 13:47
schestowitzMinceR: I thought the same thing.Mar 03 13:48
oiaohmSo by end of year MS is going to have some large headaches.Mar 03 13:48
MinceRm$ can be trusted to screw things up real hard.Mar 03 13:48
schestowitzMS investors are losing their undiesMar 03 13:48
schestowitzThey want revengeMar 03 13:48
MinceRthey should realize they've lost and sell.Mar 03 13:49
oiaohmThey are not quite that bad off yet.Mar 03 13:49
schestowitzIn some areas they areMar 03 13:49
MinceRanything else is just lying to themselves and causing even more losses.Mar 03 13:49
schestowitzThey can't expect to win the eb by renaming productsMar 03 13:49
schestowitzAnd that's just what they do.Mar 03 13:49
schestowitzMSN is a money SINKMar 03 13:49
schestowitzTime to close down portions of the companyMar 03 13:49
schestowitzCringely said so tooMar 03 13:49
schestowitzAnd he's watched MS for decadesMar 03 13:49
schestowitzHe suggested cutting off half the company to be agileMar 03 13:50
schestowitzballmer has a different viewMar 03 13:50
schestowitz"if we're not growing, then we lose" (something along those linesMar 03 13:50
*schestowitz looks forward to patent bill news todayMar 03 13:51
schestowitzvis-a-vis Cringely (Mark): 03 13:53
torosI don't know how popular Windows 7 will be...Mar 03 13:54
torosMaybe it will be a great hit :(Mar 03 13:54
oiaohmIf windows 7 is not a hit MS hits the wall.Mar 03 13:55
schestowitz "American Express has sent out letters to select customers telling them if they will pay off their balance and close their accounts by April 30, 2009, American Express will give them $300"Mar 03 13:56
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torosas far as I can see people believe that Windows 7 will be something fantasticMar 03 13:56
schestowitzOh dear... Mar 03 13:56
torosthis time Microsofts marketing team did a much better jobMar 03 13:56
schestowitztoros: which people? Windows enthusiasts who download betas and have powerful PCs?Mar 03 13:57
schestowitz /s/marketing/astroturfing/Mar 03 13:57
schestowitzThey bribed bloggers tooMar 03 13:57
schestowitztoros: as an exercise, look for Vista revews from 2006Mar 03 13:57
torosschestowitz: I did it ;)Mar 03 13:58
schestowitzThey are mostly positive. Go ahead and check. That's marketing/astroturfMar 03 13:58
torosthey wrote that Vista will be faster than XPMar 03 13:58
schestowitzYes, of course.Mar 03 13:58
torosand how user friendly it will beMar 03 13:58
schestowitzIt makes you coffee, tooMar 03 13:58
schestowitzIt's all PR.. 03 13:59
schestowitzTech news grind to a halt this month.Mar 03 14:00
torosWindows 7 is the new name of Mojave? ;)Mar 03 14:01
schestowitzYesMar 03 14:02
MinceRi thought it was the new name of Vista SP3 or soMar 03 14:02
schestowitzAnd new marketing campaignMar 03 14:02
schestowitzThey tried to rename VIsta because it got a bad imageMar 03 14:02
schestowitzThen they slimmed it down a bit, bribed bloggers and made distinctive UI changesMar 03 14:03
schestowitzI'm still not sure what Vista7 give that Vista does not have which is /also/ significanceMar 03 14:03
schestowitzOther than a different name...Mar 03 14:03
schestowitzAnd some GUIs that can be done within daysMar 03 14:03
schestowitzIt's easy to influence and bribe when you have a small crowd of enthusistsMar 03 14:04
schestowitzIt gets out of control when OEMs sell it to the 'masses'Mar 03 14:04
schestowitzEspecially because people have blogs these days so you can't speak 'for' them by inviting journos to RedmodMar 03 14:04
schestowitz(mondMar 03 14:04
schestowitzIs Vista really a bigger pile of crap than Second Life and Google Lively?  < >Mar 03 14:07
toros"Talking of good causes, the second placing of the One Laptop Per Child (OLPC) project seems particularly churlish."Mar 03 14:08
torosohhh, the OLPC project...Mar 03 14:08
toros"Because we are a small, non-profit organization" Ohhh, yeah, small NPO...Mar 03 14:09
torosthey mean "an innovative microsoft dealer": 03 14:10
schestowitzThey got derailedMar 03 14:10
schestowitzThey meant wellMar 03 14:10
*MinceR sums up that daniweb article: "waaaaaah, my favorite vista was recognized for the failure it was!"Mar 03 14:10
schestowitzBut the criminals attacked the project, for profitMar 03 14:10
*MinceR calls the waaaaambulanceMar 03 14:11
schestowitztoros: see 03 14:12
torosschestowitz: thanks...Mar 03 14:17
torosI liked the basic idea of OLPCMar 03 14:18
torosbut I don't like what they made of itMar 03 14:19
schestowitzSo philosophy?Mar 03 14:22
torosI like their mission statement: 03 14:24
torosand I think it's a good ideaMar 03 14:24
torosbut the SugarUI is just horrible: it is ugly, slow and unfriendlyMar 03 14:25
torosand using doc as default formatMar 03 14:25
torosand then installing Windows XP on the machines...Mar 03 14:26
torosthe vision is very far from the realityMar 03 14:26
schestowitzIt used ODFMar 03 14:27
MinceRi liked the basic idea of OLPC, but i didn't like that they omitted the ethernet port :>Mar 03 14:28
torosschestowitz: then I was wrong. I haven't really followed the project.Mar 03 14:31
toros 03 14:31
torosthis was maybe the last time I read about it :)Mar 03 14:32
schestowitzre: Novell's layoff of Luc: "Is this yet another sneaky way of disabling Linux through the back door? Collect experts under your tainted aegis and when the re-employment market is bad, sack them." 03 14:32
binky098roy: Novell layoffs -- anything further from your inside contact ?  They hinted at 7 - 8 million USD for layoffs in Q1 numbersMar 03 14:34
schestowitzWhat do you mean? Please explain, this is interesting.Mar 03 14:36
binky098In Q1 result transcript, the CFO i think mentioned that novell had allocated 7 - 8 millions USD for severance payMar 03 14:37
schestowitzThe reductions are inevitable, no matter how many weeks NOVL decides to wait. They already fail to pay some people and the press talks about the layoffs as though it's obviously happening (no word on when)Mar 03 14:37
schestowitzLet me check he scriptMar 03 14:37
binky098Along with maintaining double digit non-GAAP profit.  So if revenue is going down -- only way to do that is layoffsMar 03 14:37
MinceRcould they predict the crisis for that sacking strategy?Mar 03 14:38
schestowitz 03 14:39
schestowitz"We incurred 8 million of restructuring charges in the first quarter most of which represented a continuation of our 2008 restructuring activities and we expect to incur 5 million to 7 million of charges in the second quarter. We are still evaluating what additional charges we may incur in the second half of fiscal 2009. Total headcount at the end of the quarter was approximately 3900, down from approximately 4000 in the prior quarMar 03 14:39
schestowitzter."Mar 03 14:39
binky098So i read restructuring = layoffs. Anyone else concur?Mar 03 14:40
schestowitzThat would not be more than 200 headsMar 03 14:41
schestowitz(or Hovsepian's bonuses)Mar 03 14:41
schestowitz"Turning to our balance sheet and cash flow, cash and short-term investments were $1 billion in line with the prior quarter. "Mar 03 14:41
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schestowitz"AND  short-term investments"?Mar 03 14:42
schestowitzWhat does that mean?Mar 03 14:42
schestowitzHow much is cash?Mar 03 14:42
schestowitz"This quarter's cash flow included a $25 million payment from Microsoft for the first tranche of our extended agreement."Mar 03 14:43
schestowitzHehe.Mar 03 14:43
binky098Here's the interesting bit on layoffs ( talking about restructuring charges ) CFO We are still evaluating what additional charges we may incur in the second half of fiscal 2009.Mar 03 14:44
schestowitzFebruary 2009 donation: Wolvix GNU/Linux receives US$200.00 03 14:44
schestowitzbinky098: yes, I saw thatMar 03 14:44
schestowitzThey make it crypticMar 03 14:45
schestowitzIf deciphered, it means something like: "CFO: we're sharpening or axe and determining how many jobs to slash next"Mar 03 14:45
binky098So if novell is not on course to meet 10% or above non-GAAP operating profit for FY09, they're going to chop heads.  Must be a great feeling working for them at moment with that hanging over your headMar 03 14:45
schestowitzNaa..Mar 03 14:46
toroswhat's so special in wolvix?Mar 03 14:46
schestowitzThey go on vacation in Cuncun,Mar 03 14:46
schestowitzMust be fun ther.eMar 03 14:46
schestowitz 03 14:46
schestowitzWolvix is made by a painter from Norway.. good distro... I think Slackware-based.Mar 03 14:47
schestowitz"Estrella Roja. Estrella Roja (formerly Red Star GNU/Linux) is a Debian-based distribution and live CD for the desktop. Developed in Argentina, it is primarily designed for Spanish-speaking users." Watch the WallpaperMar 03 14:48
schestowitz 03 14:48
torosit sounds like an n+1 SLAX clone...Mar 03 14:49
binky098rats -- meetings call.  Have to drop.  Later everyoneMar 03 14:50
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torosOhhh, I know why Wolvix gets the donation: 03 14:51
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schestowitzYes, I know..Mar 03 14:54
schestowitz 03 14:55
schestowitzHehe. " Bodhi.zazen: Wolvix propagandist, development tester and a generally helpful guy. "Mar 03 14:55
schestowitz"Some months later when Wolvix version 1.0.2 was completed it was submited to be listed at DistroWatch and was requested to be reviewed at TuxMachines. The review at TuxMachines was overwhelmingly positive and the Wolvix userbase grew drastically. What had been a project only know to a handful of people was now getting more widespread attention. "Mar 03 14:56
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PetoKrausright soMar 03 15:11
PetoKrauslet's launch a campaign "Remember 17th of April"Mar 03 15:11
schestowitz 03 15:14
schestowitzWhat's/was on 17th of April?Mar 03 15:15
PetoKrausThe court further announced that the verdict is due on April 17 at 11am and ended the trial.Mar 03 15:23
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PetoKrausTPB trial verdictMar 03 15:23
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schestowitzEnd of life for Red Hat Enterprise Linux 2.1 < >Mar 03 15:34
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schestowitzApple Store goes down < >Mar 03 16:00
schestowitz"A BELGIAN court has decided that the search engine outfit Yahoo has been uncooperative by not handing over details about users who have been committing fraud to Inspector Knacker of the Brussels Yard." 03 16:01
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twitter"Is Vista really a bigger pile of crap than Second Life and Google Lively?"  Yes, the other two entertain people.Mar 03 16:49
twitterM$FT is a market leader today, down 0.9% to new 52 week lows.Mar 03 16:50
twitter$15.66 and sinking like a stone when I looked.Mar 03 16:50
twitterwaiting for it to hit $14.50, or less than 25% of their Y2K value.Mar 03 16:51
twitterthat should be entertaining.Mar 03 16:51
MinceRi've looked at them in google finance and compared them to some others, didn't get much out of itMar 03 16:55
twitterHere's another market leader, AutoZone. 03 16:57
twitterthey are at record highs as people fix their cars rather than buy new onesMar 03 16:57
twitterimagine that.Mar 03 16:57
twitterI think they are also one of the companies that SCO threatened, a GNU/Linux user.Mar 03 16:58
twitterThat makes them ready for the current depression in two ways.Mar 03 16:58
schestowitzNovell trademarks, copyrights, patents, and C# bindings in KDE's Phonon: 03 17:04
schestowitztwitter: same with footwearMar 03 17:05
schestowitzAnd healthcareMar 03 17:05
schestowitzAnything that 'fixes' stuff.Mar 03 17:05
schestowitzLinux 'fixes' old PCs tooMar 03 17:05
schestowitzSome Astroturfers have just mailed me.Mar 03 17:10
schestowitzHehe. I'll leak it to expose them! :-)Mar 03 17:10
schestowitzSomeone also leaked to me corruption in Portugal (procurement). Busy day...Mar 03 17:11
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schestowitzWindows security menace makes a good reason to make the move (aggressive picture): 03 17:17
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PetoKrausLOLMar 03 17:31
schestowitzThey'll get publicity... just a moment..Mar 03 17:33
schestowitzNot the publicity they asked forMar 03 17:33
schestowitz :-DMar 03 17:35
amarsh04schestowitz there was one Novell video I loved... the linux one done in the style of the lord of the ringsMar 03 17:43
schestowitzYes, it's an old one.Mar 03 17:45
schestowitzI put it there in early 2007Mar 03 17:45
schestowitzWhen companies start paying people to fake grassroots and to seed junk, then it's astroturfing, by definition.Mar 03 17:46
amarsh04in .au political parties have been severely embarrassed when the opposing parties find out the background of the actors making the claims on political adsMar 03 17:47
Balroghello everyoneMar 03 17:57
amarsh04hi BalrogMar 03 17:58
BalrogQt 4.5 is outMar 03 18:01
schestowitzHey there.Mar 03 18:02
schestowitzYes, I saw thatMar 03 18:02
Balroghey schestowitzMar 03 18:02
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trmancohelloMar 03 18:33
Balroghi trmancoMar 03 18:33
trmancohello BalrogMar 03 18:34
Balroganything interesting?Mar 03 18:35
trmanco 03 18:35
MinceRyay, now we'll have not one LF sites, but two!Mar 03 18:36
trmancololMar 03 18:37
MinceRs/tes/te/Mar 03 18:37
MinceRstrange, the footer still links to linux.comMar 03 18:41
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schestowitzIf all goes well, maybe I can get MS sued by its investorsMar 03 18:44
schestowitzA lobby of them seems interested in the frauds.Mar 03 18:45
schestowitzMinceR: interesting indeed.Mar 03 18:45
Balrogif MS tanks, I wonder what would happen at the next investors meetingMar 03 18:45
Balrogprobably not much though :/Mar 03 18:45
MinceRthrowing of chairsMar 03 18:46
MinceRif monkey boy is still aroundMar 03 18:46
MinceRschestowitz: if you can, do get them sued by their investorsMar 03 18:46
Balrogthat wouldn't hurt. Make sure that everything is done properlyMar 03 18:47
Balrogso that some judge doesn't throw out the case for some reasonMar 03 18:47
schestowitzThey give Microsoft moneyMar 03 18:48
schestowitzMicrosoft returns them halfMar 03 18:48
schestowitzWhat's at Microsoft?Mar 03 18:48
schestowitzWell, fraud to start off with... bonuses to execsMar 03 18:48
schestowitzDid you know how much Bill&Steve have stashed over the years?Mar 03 18:48
schestowitzWhile the company apparently lost billions?Mar 03 18:49
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trmanco 03 18:52
Omar87Hi allMar 03 18:53
Balroghey Omar87Mar 03 18:55
Balrogschestowitz: B&M Gates Foundation .........?Mar 03 18:56
schestowitzFoundryMar 03 18:56
schestowitzWhat about it...?Mar 03 18:56
schestowitzSomeone sent me the addresses of patent trollsMar 03 18:56
Balrogsome say they use it to protect the money from taxes and do other nefarious stuffMar 03 18:56
schestowitzSome are neighbours of B&M and their foundation.Mar 03 18:56
Balrogheh, not surprisingMar 03 18:57
schestowitzBalrog: yes, we wrote about itMar 03 18:57
schestowitzDo a search on BNMar 03 18:57
BalrogI probably saw itMar 03 18:57
schestowitzE.g. 03 18:57
schestowitzMore in the links at the bottom (posts referencing this older one)Mar 03 18:58
Balrogschestowitz: the blogging software you use for BN is your own or some other? (meaning the php code)Mar 03 19:01
Balrog-?-Mar 03 19:04
schestowitzIt's WordPressMar 03 19:04
MinceRiirc it's wordpressMar 03 19:04
MinceR:)Mar 03 19:04
schestowitzI'm involved in the community of itMar 03 19:04
schestowitzSInce 2004Mar 03 19:04
trmancoit schestowitz code :-PMar 03 19:04
trmanco's*Mar 03 19:05
schestowitzHardly. Discussion about some, bug reports, patches I didn't get to writeMar 03 19:05
Balrogcool.Mar 03 19:08
Balrogit's interesting how greatly wordpress-based sites can varyMar 03 19:09
schestowitzCan you help me proofread? Have a look: 03 19:14
schestowitzTo the best of my knowledge, all the facts should be defensible and I added references leading to the original articles and quotes from those involved.Mar 03 19:16
Balrogthe terminology 'Microsoft watchers' sounds strange; I'd look for a synonymous termMar 03 19:16
Balrogotherwise it's ok spelling and grammar wiseMar 03 19:18
schestowitzWatchers is normalMar 03 19:20
schestowitzFor me anywayMar 03 19:20
schestowitzMary Jo Foley calls herself thatMar 03 19:20
schestowitzSame with Ms-watchMar 03 19:20
Balrogfor some reason it sound more professional not using that termMar 03 19:20
schestowitzIt says watcher, not "hawk"Mar 03 19:20
schestowitzMaybe I've become too accustomed to hearing the termMar 03 19:21
schestowitzI'm prepared to stick with it.Mar 03 19:21
BalrogOK.Mar 03 19:21
schestowitz "Probably it is time to cut 10% top executives salary at MS. "Mar 03 19:22
schestowitzTemps.. no assurance, no benefits... and Microsoft targets *them*, no the managersMar 03 19:23
schestowitzTemps are ripe to endless abuseMar 03 19:23
schestowitzI think it's calls scuds or scads Mar 03 19:23
schestowitzCaterpillar was convicted for itMar 03 19:23
schestowitzLabour abuseMar 03 19:23
schestowitzbblMar 03 19:27
trmanco 03 20:03
trmanco 03 20:06
tessier_ 03 20:10
tessier_WTF?Mar 03 20:10
trmanco 03 20:13
trmancotessier_, what?Mar 03 20:14
tessier_trmanco: Shills.Mar 03 20:14
tessier_Obvious shills.Mar 03 20:14
balzacI often imagine what it must be like for Microsoft's dupesMar 03 20:15
balzacThey think to themselves "I'm going to get paid to say yes to this software? Hell yeah!"Mar 03 20:15
balzacThen they find out the reason they got so much incentive - people actually care about software freedom.Mar 03 20:16
balzacThen they probably become aware they've done wrong, but the money is good and it's only software, so they fight on behalf of Microsoft.Mar 03 20:17
trmanco Ficha de Adesão  Passo 1 de 6Mar 03 20:18
trmancoAntes de iniciar o processo de registo, verifique as configurações do Internet Explorer (Browser) de acordo com o seu sistema operativo:Mar 03 20:18
trmanco–  Windows 2000/XP     –  Windows VistaMar 03 20:18
trmancoDe seguida preencha o formulário. Os campos cujo título se encontra a negrito são obrigatórios.Mar 03 20:18
balzacPeople with nefarious intentions regarding software generally choose the most technically illiterate people to use.Mar 03 20:18
trmanco 03 20:18
trmanco.NET failMar 03 20:19
balzacSo many of my friends are tired of hearing me talk about software. Their attitude is that "it's only software" and that I must be crazy to care so much.Mar 03 20:20
tessier_balzac: Do people actually care about software freedom? Not many it seems. We are branded zealots.Mar 03 20:20
balzacThey've been taught to think of software as nothing important by proprietary software companiesMar 03 20:20
tessier_badserii: I know what you mean.Mar 03 20:20
tessier_er..balzacMar 03 20:20
tessier_They don't realize how important software is to our daily lives now.Mar 03 20:20
balzactessier_:Mar 03 20:20
balzacthey also refuse to acknowledge how complex it isMar 03 20:21
balzacThey say "windows is good enough for what I do"Mar 03 20:21
balzacI tell them "what you don't know _can_ hurt you".Mar 03 20:21
amarsh04good quote 14 lines above, balzac, mind if I steal it?Mar 03 20:22
balzacAnd I tell them "your brain is being trained to be non-inquisitive and conforming by software created by programmers whose intention is to subjugate you psychologically and commercially"Mar 03 20:22
balzachelp yourselfMar 03 20:22
tessier_balzac: Suggesting that people think for themselves has historically been a losing proposition.Mar 03 20:24
balzactessier_: I agreeMar 03 20:25
balzacIt's because thinking burns a lot of calories. It's like asking people to lift weights.Mar 03 20:25
amarsh04I keep thinking of monty python's life of brian "we've all got to think for ourselves"Mar 03 20:25
balzacThe key is to fool their mind into an effortless change of opinion or attitudeMar 03 20:25
balzacIf you make them think critically, they'll shut you down to save caloriesMar 03 20:26
amarsh04but if you can make someone realise that getting more "stuff" won't make them happier and will help wreck the planet, you've helped them and the rest of the planetMar 03 20:28
balzacpeople ought to be fooled or entertained to learn betterMar 03 20:29
balzaclet's face it, most people are lazy fools and that will never changeMar 03 20:29
balzacLao Tzu's Tao Te Ching is aware of this, and does not seek to subject people to a campaign of mental and moral improvement, but rather to calm their wills and guide them with the least possible effortMar 03 20:30
Balrogyeah, until they get burned by stuff not working &c.Mar 03 20:30
balzacThat's why most activism failsMar 03 20:30
tessier_Balrog: They don't get burned by stuff not working. Or they don't see it as being burned anyway.Mar 03 20:31
tessier_They perceive it like getting a flat tire.Mar 03 20:31
tessier_Michelin didn't burn you because they tire went flat. It's just one of those things that happens.Mar 03 20:31
tessier_They don't realize that Michelin could be making puncture proof tires which could be sold for even less money if only people were asking for them.Mar 03 20:32
tessier_s/they/the/Mar 03 20:32
balzacpuncture-proof tires might cost more to make, or tear up the roads faster, but in the case of software, it's much easier to improve and reduce costsMar 03 20:35
balzacIt's easier to assess the value of material goods than softwareMar 03 20:35
tessier_In my analogy they are cheaper and better all around. But you are right about it being difficult to assess the value of software.Mar 03 20:36
balzacThey've been fooled to think of software in a materialistic way by the shrink-wrapped boxes and the rest of the marketing hypeMar 03 20:40
balzacThat tells me that free software needs fancier packaging (environmentally friendly)Mar 03 20:41
balzacWhat if Emacs came in a very fancy box?Mar 03 20:41
balzacAnd a separate and very fancy box for bash, and each of the GNU utilities?Mar 03 20:42
balzacpeople would love and cherish these programsMar 03 20:42
balzacespecially if you made them fork over their hard-earned dollarsMar 03 20:42
BalrogI've heard complaintsMar 03 20:42
tessier_of?Mar 03 20:44
Balrogwindows not working properly, data loss, etcMar 03 20:47
Balrogespecially with vistaMar 03 20:47
tessier_I've heard such complaints for 20 years. It hasn't changed a thing.Mar 03 20:53
tessier_I need to stop hanging out in channels like this bitching about windows and get out into the real world and implement more Linux solutions.Mar 03 20:53
balzacMake money from itMar 03 21:07
tessier_I do.Mar 03 21:08
balzacI've got to get back to pushing GNU/Linux in the financial servicesarenaMar 03 21:08
balzacme too, but not enoughMar 03 21:08
tessier_I make plenty. But most of the money I make goes to other people. But I am planning a return back to running my own company.Mar 03 21:08
tessier_I'm tired of making other peoples dreams come true. It sucks.Mar 03 21:08
balzacThat's what I'm working onMar 03 21:10
balzachttp://www.disruptech.comMar 03 21:10
balzacI want to do consulting for enterprise clients (financial services companies) who need to switch to RedhatMar 03 21:11
balzacAnd make money a commission from saving them moneyMar 03 21:11
amarsh04sounds goodMar 03 21:16
trmanco 03 21:17
trmancoisn't this the company that said that the return rate of GNU/Linux netbooks where 4x higher then Windows netbooksMar 03 21:17
trmancono they make some kinda of a mini os based on Linux, hmm, interestingMar 03 21:18
balzacThere is a different tune from before and after the crash of the economyMar 03 21:22
balzacMicrosoft certainly drummed up a lot of doubts about GNU/Linux on netbooks, but now they're being ignored because there's blood in the water.Mar 03 21:23
Balrogand ARM netbooks won't be able to run windowsMar 03 21:27
Balrogor will they?Mar 03 21:27
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@ has joined #boycottnovellMar 03 21:28
_Hicham_Hi AllMar 03 21:28
_Hicham_who is here?Mar 03 21:28
BalrogmeMar 03 21:28
_Hicham_hi balrogMar 03 21:29
_Hicham_how r u doing?Mar 03 21:29
BalroggoodMar 03 21:30
_Hicham_nice to hearMar 03 21:30
Balrogbusy =\Mar 03 21:30
_Hicham_okMar 03 21:31
BalrogI'll bblMar 03 21:38
*ushimitsudoki ( has joined #boycottnovellMar 03 21:39
_Hicham_okMar 03 21:49
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schestowitzSGI lays off another 9 per cent < >Mar 03 22:33
amarsh04am listening to one of the ex-Mitsubishi motors IT workers (who worked at Adelaide Uni prior to that) on the radioMar 03 22:35
schestowitzSeas are drying up: Who wants to read about Lake Balkhash? < >Mar 03 22:37
amarsh04Mitsubishi motors closed their local assembly plant just over a year ago, they closed their foundry in the year before thatMar 03 22:37
schestowitzDo they still sell just cars? Mar 03 22:38
schestowitzI think they moved to other areas, no?Mar 03 22:38
amarsh04yes, still selling cars from JapanMar 03 22:38
amarsh04there is still Mitsubishi electric who make everything from cd-rom drives to generators for power stationsMar 03 22:39
schestowitzWon't be long because Chinese cars dominate perhapsMar 03 22:40
schestowitzWorking conditions there are horrific though.Mar 03 22:40
amarsh04general motors holdens still assemble cars locally (30 km from where I live)Mar 03 22:41
schestowitzWhy Do We Assume No One Is Fixing The Financial Crisis? < >Mar 03 22:42
schestowitzGM might be run closer to Aussie one day... China. There are rumours about them buying the companyMar 03 22:42
schestowitzChina is also bidding for some financial firms from the US.Mar 03 22:42
trmancowtf -> 03 22:46
oiaohmReally does not matter about market share trmancoMar 03 22:48
oiaohmIf you have 100 percent control of a market that is costing you money it don't help.Mar 03 22:48
schestowitzStupid headline: Microsoft Safe From Linux Wrath Over TomTom.. For Now (MSFT) < >Mar 03 22:49
schestowitztrmanco: bullshitMar 03 22:49
trmancoschestowitz, I thought so tooMar 03 22:49
schestowitzIt's the Gralla shill and he's probably quoting the US-only NPDsoft groupMar 03 22:49
schestowitzIn the US, Windows is always a lot biggerMar 03 22:49
schestowitzIn EU, for example, about 40% is LinuxMar 03 22:49
trmancooiaohm, no "market share" doesn't really matter hereMar 03 22:49
schestowitzAnd Gralla is a dishonest shill. Search BN for "NPD" and "gralla"Mar 03 22:50
schestowitzI could paste some refs here if you wantMar 03 22:50
schestowitzoiaohm: makes a good point tooMar 03 22:50
schestowitzoiaohm makes a good point tooMar 03 22:50
schestowitzMicrosoft gives WIndows away. It doesn't know how the heck to make moneyMar 03 22:51
schestowitzNow it tried to impose a 3-proceses limit , then charge for 'premiums'Mar 03 22:51
schestowitzWon't workMar 03 22:51
schestowitzYou compete by making better products, not artifically crippling them (taking them further back). Simple business logic.Mar 03 22:52
oiaohmAlso issue here 90 percent numbers don't count the laptops with Linux in bios.Mar 03 22:52
schestowitzIt's not 90%Mar 03 22:52
schestowitzWait..Mar 03 22:52
schestowitzI'll give you recent refsMar 03 22:52
oiaohmIts very quickly becoming 100 percent Linux of some form.Mar 03 22:52
schestowitz One Third of Dell Inspiron Mini 9s Sold Run LinuxMar 03 22:52
oiaohm90 percent is valid for Australia.Mar 03 22:53
schestowitz "Asustek Chairman Jonney Shih has predicted that about 60 percent of Eee PCs to be shipped in 2009 will have Windows XP."Mar 03 22:53
schestowitzThere are more, but these are some recent ones.Mar 03 22:53
oiaohmAgain they are very good at not stating what country.Mar 03 22:53
schestowitzAustralia is no exampleMar 03 22:53
schestowitzIt's 'owned' by Microsoft, just like the UKMar 03 22:53
trmancoMSI has it's own linux based OSMar 03 22:54
amarsh04agreed schestowitzMar 03 22:54
oiaohmMS is trying to apply limits so they don't have ME too in the higher markets.Mar 03 22:54
oiaohmME too in the higher markets will kinda kill MS.Mar 03 22:55
schestowitzThey must do *something*Mar 03 22:55
schestowitzThey are a business, not happy hackersMar 03 22:55
schestowitzThey try to choke Linux, but it's not possibleMar 03 22:55
schestowitzNow with TomTom.Mar 03 22:55
schestowitzTheir goal is to produce profit, not make Windows prevalentMar 03 22:56
oiaohmThing is there are many companies that can jump in.Mar 03 22:56
oiaohmWith the TomTom case.Mar 03 22:56
schestowitzSee the words of Microsoft investors in the E-mail I posted some hours ago in BNMar 03 22:56
oiaohmReason patents applied to products that TomTom don't produce.Mar 03 22:56
schestowitzThe same rules go for SaaSMar 03 22:56
oiaohmIe Linux Kernel.Mar 03 22:56
schestowitzJust getting TRAFFIC doesn't mean moneyMar 03 22:56
schestowitzJust putting WIndows on netbooks doesn't mean revenueMar 03 22:57
oiaohmPatent law when sued over a item you can refer to maker of it.Mar 03 22:57
schestowitzThey need to extract money from that somehowMar 03 22:57
schestowitzThey don't know how.Mar 03 22:57
schestowitzSo they tried selling h/w like IBM and HPMar 03 22:57
schestowitzNow they intend to open shopMar 03 22:57
schestowitzThey fialed to profit from XBox and ZuneMar 03 22:57
oiaohmXBox is a good example of market share made by cost of bottom line.Mar 03 22:57
oiaohmSo called for long term gain.Mar 03 22:58
oiaohmOnly works if you can kill the companies competing against you.Mar 03 22:58
schestowitzNintendo win.Mar 03 22:59
schestowitz*wonMar 03 22:59
schestowitzPS2 beat XBox as well.Mar 03 22:59
oiaohmMS was stupid.Mar 03 23:01
oiaohmSony PS2 was built to be able to operate as a light weight PC.Mar 03 23:02
oiaohmYet the Xbox cannot.Mar 03 23:02
schestowitz Is Microsoft's Kumo Already A Failure? < >Mar 03 23:09
Balrogand the Wii? read this: 03 23:09
Balrogit's interesting that  the Xbox (original) was hacked quicklyMar 03 23:10
schestowitzIt was made for Microsoft, so..Mar 03 23:11
schestowitzXBox360 was hackd tooMar 03 23:11
Balrogyeah but not as easilyMar 03 23:11
Balroghere:Mar 03 23:11
Balrog 03 23:11
Balrogabout the originalMar 03 23:12
Balrogread about TEA for example ... they used an encryption/signing algorithm that was *known* to be weakMar 03 23:14
schestowitzYes, that's MSMar 03 23:16
Balrog"A possible explanation why they chose TEA would be that they might have searched the internet for a "tiny" encryption algorithm - and got TEA."Mar 03 23:17
schestowitz 03 23:17
schestowitz 03 23:17
schestowitz,microsoft-cofe...Mar 03 23:17
schestowitz 03 23:18
BalrogNintendo did better, but they messed up with strcmp vs. strncmpMar 03 23:18
schestowitz 03 23:18
Balrogthe one they used terminates on a null characterMar 03 23:18
Balrogreturning trueMar 03 23:18
schestowitzUbuntu Newbie Guide: First 24 Hours With Ubuntu < >Mar 03 23:21
schestowitzBalrog: Debian messed up with openssh tooMar 03 23:21
schestowitzPalm leads on open source development, iPhone gaining < >Mar 03 23:22
schestowitzSince when is Palm doing open source? it's just using LinuxMar 03 23:22
schestowitzThey must have used some Foleo code in PreMar 03 23:23
*oiaohm has quit (Remote closed the connection)Mar 03 23:26
schestowitztrmanco: 03 23:28
balzac 03 23:31
schestowitz*LOL* Snacker discovers Nokia phone in crisp packet < >Mar 03 23:31
schestowitzbalzac: : let's see what they make of itMar 03 23:32
schestowitzDepression? What depression? Google CFO nabs $1.2m bonus for five months' work < >Mar 03 23:32
schestowitzJet perks... "In a sign that Hewlett-Packard is running short on compensation-based expenses to eliminate - or that its executives simply abhor flying commercial first class – the PC vendor said it's now cutting private jet perks for top executives." < >Mar 03 23:33
schestowitz1234567890 Square Root Day revelers to party like it's 3/3/09 < >Mar 03 23:37
schestowitzMicrosoft crash: (see it while it's alive)Mar 03 23:46
schestowitzWatch how corrupt the government is: more than 770 companies and interest groups hired an estimated 2,340 lobbyists to influence federal policy on climate change in the past year."Mar 03 23:57
schestowitz "The fortunes of the American economy have grown so alarming and the pace of the decline so swift that economists are now straining to describe where events are headed, dusting off a word that has not been invoked since the 1940s: depression." But don't expect politicians to start using that descriptor."Mar 03 23:58
schestowitz"The economy is spiraling down at an accelerating pace, threatening to undermine the Obama administration’s projections of growth in years to come." 03 23:59
schestowitzNew site: 03 23:59

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