02.04.09

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 3rd, 2009 – Part 2

Posted in IRC Logs at 5:32 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

schestowitz	It’s already done in IRC.	Feb 03 12:41
oob	!	Feb 03 12:41
oob	do tell..	Feb 03 12:42
schestowitz	It’s mostly in logs	Feb 03 12:45
schestowitz	It’s no secret the people who favour BN realise the role of Microsoft is expansionism. That’s why they receive government protection sometimes. Actually, I write about it right now.	Feb 03 12:45
schestowitz	If I post early, then maybe you can help me proofread.	Feb 03 12:45
oob	oh, i thought you meant that he had shed some light on the current circumstance	Feb 03 12:46
schestowitz	Oh, not here, no.	Feb 03 12:46
schestowitz	But these issues are discussed a lot here.	Feb 03 12:47
oob	certainly, i would be delighted	Feb 03 12:47
schestowitz	I’m doing another pass through http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/0… . Do have a look	Feb 03 12:47
oob	though i’m at GMT+12	Feb 03 12:47
schestowitz	There are likely some typos there stil.	Feb 03 12:47
schestowitz	We develop good understanding of this by communicating	Feb 03 12:48
schestowitz	I even have people in countries like India dropping names of cronies, so they can’t escape under the radar as easily as they could before the Internet.	Feb 03 12:48
oob	“pampered as expensive” should read “pampered AND..”	Feb 03 12:48
schestowitz	yes	Feb 03 12:49
oob	“Microsoft has now a blog..” is a little cumbersome, perhaps “Microsoft now has..”	Feb 03 12:51
schestowitz	Yes, but it’s a quote	Feb 03 12:52
schestowitz	SO I can blame it on someone else	Feb 03 12:52
oob	“but as we last emphasised last week,” also a bit cumbersome, suggest “but as we emphasised last week..” or “but as we emphasised again as recently as last week..”	Feb 03 12:53
oob	true	Feb 03 12:53
*schestowitz searches for a picture		Feb 03 12:53
schestowitz	Oh, I see “last __ last”	Feb 03 12:54
schestowitz	http://www.sxc.hu/browse.phtml	Feb 03 12:54
oob	yep that’s it	Feb 03 12:54
schestowitz	Royalty-free	Feb 03 12:54
oob	otherwise all well as far as i can see, great article	Feb 03 12:54
oob	http://www.stockxpert.com/browse_im…	Feb 03 12:56
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schestowitz	Picture added	Feb 03 12:56
oob	ha! beautiful	Feb 03 12:56
schestowitz	I was going to do another one	Feb 03 12:56
schestowitz	I’ll just post it as link though (laziness and hurry)	Feb 03 12:56
schestowitz	Done. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/03/…	Feb 03 12:59
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oob	great too	Feb 03 13:01
*schestowitz does a post on ms security		Feb 03 13:01
oob	i don’t know how you find the time	Feb 03 13:01
schestowitz	oob: I got these yesterday	Feb 03 13:01
schestowitz	Went through the headline quickly.	Feb 03 13:01
schestowitz	*lines	Feb 03 13:01
oob	nonetheless, it’s a remarkable dedication to research	Feb 03 13:01
oob	i must adjourn, it’s well past bedtime.	Feb 03 13:03
oob	nice chatting with you. i’ll look forward to reading more on this particular topic	Feb 03 13:03
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schestowitz	http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/ind… “Some of Whitehall’s biggest computer projects have spiralled out of control, with total cost overruns of more than £18 billion, an investigation by The Times can reveal.”	Feb 03 13:35
oiaohm	Ok when was the last time a IT job completed on bugget	Feb 03 13:36
schestowitz	oiaohm: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/… http://boycottnovell.com/2008/10/27/linux-hate…	Feb 03 13:36
schestowitz	http://linuxhater.blogspot.com/ “Sorry, the blog at linuxhater.blogspot.com has been removed. This address is not available for new blogs.”	Feb 03 13:37
oiaohm	Hmm	Feb 03 13:38
oiaohm	I have been to linuxhaters blogspot recently.	Feb 03 13:39
schestowitz	Some Thoughts On Saving The Economy < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090201… >	Feb 03 13:40
schestowitz	The Big Fix < http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/01/magazine… >	Feb 03 13:40
oiaohm	Wonder if google is now cleaning blogspot of hate crimes now.	Feb 03 13:41
schestowitz	Brilliant: Too Much Facebook Makes Girls Depressed… Or Depressed Girls Use Facebook? < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090202/021839… >	Feb 03 13:43
schestowitz	oiaohm: it does	Feb 03 13:43
schestowitz	There is a report tool for removing personal attacks	Feb 03 13:43
schestowitz	I had some against me and people voted to remove it. It was libelous.	Feb 03 13:43
oiaohm	There was no need to insult people.	Feb 03 13:44
oiaohm	Hating and insulting don’t have to be joined.	Feb 03 13:44
oiaohm	Becided he EOF his blog then restarted it.	Feb 03 13:44
schestowitz	Is Nokia Demanding The Right To Spy On Its Employees? < http://techdirt.com/articles/200902… >	Feb 03 13:45
oiaohm	Most likely.	Feb 03 13:46
oiaohm	If we did not have laws there would be more cams in tollets	Feb 03 13:46
oiaohm	Funny enough most elevators in big building have cams in them yet people still have sex in them.	Feb 03 13:48
schestowitz	They entertain the guard.	Feb 03 13:49
oiaohm	It depends on the building its some times fun to set off fire alarm when they are just about to get started if no one else is in building.	Feb 03 13:51
oiaohm	Note alarm test.	Feb 03 13:51
schestowitz	is this antoher mole? Q&A: Ex-Yahoo media boss Scott Moore on his new Microsoft job < http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/QA_Fo… >	Feb 03 13:51
oiaohm	For who is the question.	Feb 03 13:52
oiaohm	Yahoo or Microsoft.	Feb 03 13:52
schestowitz	NM, same guy.. http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/02/m…	Feb 03 13:53
schestowitz	oiaohm: did you try the prank?	Feb 03 13:53
oiaohm	One of my jobs is building secuirty auditing.	Feb 03 13:54
oiaohm	So yes I do get to see a lot of very wrong videos.	Feb 03 13:54
schestowitz	Microsoft faces more heat over foreign workers and layoff plans < http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/More_heat_f… >	Feb 03 13:54
oiaohm	Numbers MS is talking about are not enough.	Feb 03 13:55
oiaohm	There profit percentages unless they can lift them they are done.	Feb 03 13:55
oiaohm	To build and maintain an OS costs a lot of money.	Feb 03 13:55
oiaohm	Linux distributes the cost quite effectively.	Feb 03 13:56
oiaohm	Basically MS is stuck. Cut enough to get to the new profit level not have enought staff to maintain stuff.	Feb 03 13:57
oiaohm	Open source has effectively screwed them. Apple faced the same issue the reason why the core of there OS is open source.	Feb 03 13:58
schestowitz	Windows is the next Symbian	Feb 03 13:59
schestowitz	(i presume you can see the parallels)	Feb 03 13:59
oiaohm	Yep perfect match up.	Feb 03 13:59
oiaohm	Both got over priced for what they are.	Feb 03 13:59
oiaohm	Symbian is trying to stay alive by going open source.	Feb 03 13:59
schestowitz	Apple’s cores: CUPS, BSD, Samba..	Feb 03 13:59
oiaohm	The thing is over time Apple is becoming more and more open source friendly because they are learning why Open Source works.	Feb 03 14:00
oiaohm	By sharing openly you masively save development costs yet still get to product.	Feb 03 14:01
oiaohm	Ok Apple will most likely always keep a pocket of closed source.	Feb 03 14:01
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oiaohm	There is no way that I can work out to fully kill open source.	Feb 03 14:03
schestowitz	I?	Feb 03 14:09
schestowitz	Oh, ic	Feb 03 14:10
schestowitz	That’s why Micfrosoft is not campaigning to make FOSS a ‘Windows/.NET thing’	Feb 03 14:11
oiaohm	Tried did not work.	Feb 03 14:14
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oiaohm	MS was wanting a large numbers coverted to .net for the 2012 OS.	Feb 03 14:14
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schestowitz	oiaohm: still trying	Feb 03 14:16
schestowitz	Not working if Waugh/Miguel other turncoats get pushed out	Feb 03 14:16
oiaohm	KDE 4.x when it gets fully working is kinda going to push back and cause some major problems.	Feb 03 14:18
oiaohm	Why develop .net when you can develop qt4 and get basically the same job done with better ABI.	Feb 03 14:19
oiaohm	Hmm netcraft is avoiding publishing the ssl servey.	Feb 03 14:20
schestowitz	I did this the other day	Feb 03 14:22
schestowitz	I pasted this year	Feb 03 14:22
schestowitz	1 million SSL-enabled sites, IIRC	Feb 03 14:22
oiaohm	http://news.netcraft.com/archives/… << Some how I don’t think you would agree with netcraft good or bad test.	Feb 03 14:23
oiaohm	No it did not. SSL survey results give a lot more information in the past. http://news.netcraft.com/SSL-survey << This page is normally updated yearly.	Feb 03 14:24
schestowitz	http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/786… “YAHOO’S NEW HEAD HONCHO Carol Bartz, who has been jingling her spurs in an attempt to shake things up at Internet search also-ran Yahoo, has offered a $1,000 bounty out of her own substantial paycheck, to encourage Yahooglers to snitch on their colleagues who leak emails to the evil press.”	Feb 03 14:24
oiaohm	Some how I suspect MS is currently Losing.	Feb 03 14:24
oiaohm	Ok I am getting a insane streek. Attempting to install eclipse in wine.	Feb 03 14:28
schestowitz	???/	Feb 03 14:28
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oiaohm	Has not been tested in a while.	Feb 03 14:33
oiaohm	So far getting eclipse working in wine is a test of endurance.	Feb 03 14:33
schestowitz	[OT] WFT.. Google is indexing the bloody PDFs! They are rel=”nofollowed”…	Feb 03 14:35
schestowitz	Unless something/someone links to them, this makes no sense.	Feb 03 14:35
schestowitz	http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclie…	Feb 03 14:35
oiaohm	Google also indexs doc and odf documents as well.	Feb 03 14:38
oiaohm	Only thing that stops google is the .robot file	Feb 03 14:38
PetoKraus	schestowitz: yes, it does	Feb 03 14:39
PetoKraus		Feb 03 14:39
oiaohm	Hang on that would explain the high load on site	Feb 03 14:42
oiaohm	was google bot eating you alive as well as something like a slashdoting.	Feb 03 14:42
schestowitz	Any ildcard for filetypes?	Feb 03 14:43
schestowitz	The thing is, some PDFs I do want indexed	Feb 03 14:43
schestowitz	Others — no so much	Feb 03 14:43
schestowitz	oiaohm: no, not bots, real visits	Feb 03 14:43
schestowitz	It only indexed about 20 PDFs I didn’t want it to and it’s possible if the PDFs are linked to without rel=”nofollow” (e.g. from an external site)	Feb 03 14:44
schestowitz	Good article: http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/…	Feb 03 14:49
schestowitz	Airlines Defining Anyone Disruptive as Terrorists < http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/… >	Feb 03 14:51
schestowitz	In-flight confrontations can lead to charges defined as terrorism < http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/w… >	Feb 03 14:51
schestowitz	Disagreeing with war in Iraq can count as terrorism too sometimes.	Feb 03 14:52
PetoKraus	schestowitz: did you consider that hosting?	Feb 03 14:53
PetoKraus	which is advertised in freesoftwaremagazine	Feb 03 14:53
schestowitz	I haven’t.	Feb 03 14:53
schestowitz	I’ll install Squid or Pound	Feb 03 14:53
schestowitz	Some professor is checking for me which one is better	Feb 03 14:54
PetoKraus	some harvard law proffesor?	Feb 03 14:54
PetoKraus	duh, i can’t spell	Feb 03 14:54
schestowitz	http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7824096.stm “How can we be sure new technologies won’t have a negative impact, asks Bill Thompson”… but watch the lady frying her brain (and the kid’s) with a cellphone	Feb 03 14:56
schestowitz	Another RIP: Spansion CEO Quits, Chip Maker Seeks Buyer < http://www.pcworld.com/article/158793/spans… >	Feb 03 14:58
schestowitz	Misconfiguration facilitates worm outbreak in London NHS hospitals < http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/126815 >	Feb 03 15:09
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schestowitz	http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/be… “The same filters used to flag search results are used by Google’s Gmail service, and according to Google Software Engineer Brad Taylor, during the time the glitch was active, and for some time after, legitimate messages sent to some Gmail accounts were marked as spam and delivered to the user’s junk mail folder. “	Feb 03 15:21
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schestowitz	Is there a desktop pager compatible with Compiz sessions?	Feb 03 15:45
schestowitz	“The only versions of the machine currently listed are down as Windows XP boxes. There’s no word on Linux versions.” < http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/… > Microsoft is pressuring them. ASUS admitted thisa	Feb 03 15:47
schestowitz	Google snafu marked Gmail as spam < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/7… >	Feb 03 16:01
schestowitz	LOL “A PUBLISHER of CIO arse-covering studies, Forrester Research” http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/…	Feb 03 16:02
schestowitz	Comcast Apologizes for Super Bowl Porn Glitch < http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2009/02/… >	Feb 03 16:04
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schestowitz	“Open Source Car” which isn’t < http://www.opensource.org/node/385 >	Feb 03 16:27
schestowitz	What’s next? Open source animals (DNA)?	Feb 03 16:28
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schestowitz	Weird post this one… http://www.siriusit.co.uk/myblog/…	Feb 03 16:30
MinceR	open source water	Feb 03 16:32
schestowitz	You can remove calls to GetChlorine()	Feb 03 16:47
schestowitz	MinceR: where can I get more links on Microsoft’s crimes/collusion in Hungary?	Feb 03 16:47
MinceR	i’ll see what i have	Feb 03 16:50
MinceR	i only have hungarian links	Feb 03 16:50
MinceR	will those do?	Feb 03 16:50
schestowitz	Not really	Feb 03 16:51
schestowitz	That’s the issue	Feb 03 16:51
schestowitz	I’m writing about Kazakhstan right now	Feb 03 16:51
schestowitz	There’s the MOU roadshow	Feb 03 16:52
schestowitz	I think Hungary got scammed by that too	Feb 03 16:52
schestowitz	Illegal, potentially	Feb 03 16:52
schestowitz	They use the crisis to put shackles on people and loot them: http://www.inform.kz/showarticle3.ph…	Feb 03 16:55
schestowitz	LOL “Microsoft is getting ready to relaunch Vista under the new “Windows 7” brand, in the hopes that Windows XP users find it worth the upgrade.” http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/02…	Feb 03 16:57
schestowitz	They already employ a lot of shill to create the illusion that Vista7 is HolyGrail(tm)	Feb 03 16:57
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The_Mad_Hatter	schestowitz – you around?	Feb 03 17:02
schestowitz	Yes	Feb 03 17:02
The_Mad_Hatter	Try PRQ for hosting	Feb 03 17:03
The_Mad_Hatter	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRQ	Feb 03 17:03
The_Mad_Hatter	They host wikileaks among others.	Feb 03 17:03
The_Mad_Hatter	And are not likely to bow down to Microsoft.	Feb 03 17:03
schestowitz	The_Mad_Hatter: thanks.	Feb 03 17:07
schestowitz	I considered Squid	Feb 03 17:07
schestowitz	I need to get it installed once someone who advises me gets back to me. He was here in IRC the other day	Feb 03 17:07
schestowitz	You advised this to me before, right?	Feb 03 17:08
schestowitz	I think it’s you who did.	Feb 03 17:08
The_Mad_Hatter	Um, not directly. I did mention that I knew a place that was good.	Feb 03 17:09
schestowitz	Pirate Bay is bad IP (Address) neighbourhood, no?	Feb 03 17:10
The_Mad_Hatter	Not as far as I can tell.	Feb 03 17:10
schestowitz	Another person suggested ibiblio	Feb 03 17:10
schestowitz	They host Groklaw, which has a dedicated AMD box	Feb 03 17:11
The_Mad_Hatter	Ibibilio would be good to. You need something that can	Feb 03 17:11
The_Mad_Hatter	A – Handle the load	Feb 03 17:11
The_Mad_Hatter	B – Won’t be pushed around	Feb 03 17:11
ushimitsudoki	what up fellas	Feb 03 17:11
schestowitz	Hey, ushimitsudoki	Feb 03 17:11
ushimitsudoki	I got laid off today	Feb 03 17:11
schestowitz	We need advice: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/03…	Feb 03 17:11
The_Mad_Hatter	PRQ and Ibiblio are both good that way.	Feb 03 17:11
The_Mad_Hatter	Morning.	Feb 03 17:11
schestowitz	ushimitsudoki: many people did.	Feb 03 17:11
schestowitz	It’s not you, it’s the economy	Feb 03 17:12
The_Mad_Hatter	Ouch. Sorry to hear that.	Feb 03 17:12
The_Mad_Hatter	Of course then you got guys like me who can’t work.	Feb 03 17:12
schestowitz	The_Mad_Hatter: I’ll share this with Shane.	Feb 03 17:12
ushimitsudoki	Yup – 6 years and poof like that. Things getting rough – I was a gov’t contractor, so you know shit’s getting bad	Feb 03 17:12
schestowitz	It gets bad with an MOU is signed.	Feb 03 17:13
schestowitz	ushimitsudoki: Japan, right?	Feb 03 17:13
ushimitsudoki	Hah – making a site slashdot-proof is a good problem to have	Feb 03 17:13
ushimitsudoki	Yes, japan	Feb 03 17:13
schestowitz	I’ve been reading a fair bit on what happens there.	Feb 03 17:13
schestowitz	Economy-wise, not IT–wise.	Feb 03 17:13
schestowitz	ushimitsudoki: we stood stable before	Feb 03 17:13
schestowitz	I use Coral	Feb 03 17:14
schestowitz	But..	Feb 03 17:14
schestowitz	This means I need to be awake and aware when it happens	Feb 03 17:14
schestowitz	Like an advance warning that some people E-mail us about.	Feb 03 17:14
schestowitz	Then I can redirect to Coral.	Feb 03 17:14
The_Mad_Hatter	advance warning of the slashdot effect? Sheesh.	Feb 03 17:14
schestowitz	The issue is, people move b/w pages, so they kind of ‘escape’ the cashing sandbox	Feb 03 17:14
schestowitz	*caching	Feb 03 17:14
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schestowitz	The_Mad_Hatter: it’s easier with Digg	Feb 03 17:15
schestowitz	You just put your domain and RSS	Feb 03 17:15
The_Mad_Hatter	Just curious – how well backed up are you?	Feb 03 17:15
ushimitsudoki	schestowitz: I wish I could make a good recommendation – but not my area. I thought I saw a wordpress plugin once that went to a static site automatically when a certain number of hits was reached? That’s one possibility	Feb 03 17:15
schestowitz	Then you see if something advances close to FP and shield the pages up in the sense that you strip down the PHP file (trimming for DB load) or redirect	Feb 03 17:15
schestowitz	The_Mad_Hatter: I back up regularly. So does Shane.	Feb 03 17:16
schestowitz	ushimitsudoki: yes, WordPress though does what a server-level (not CMS-level) software achieves	Feb 03 17:16
The_Mad_Hatter	What I meant was, is it possible to download the entire site?	Feb 03 17:16
schestowitz	Also, we use the ‘LTS’ version of WordPress, so many plugins are likely not to be compatible	Feb 03 17:17
schestowitz	The_Mad_Hatter: it used to be possible	Feb 03 17:17
schestowitz	The host blocked it	Feb 03 17:17
schestowitz	They set limits	Feb 03 17:17
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/site-archives/	Feb 03 17:17
schestowitz	IIRC, they took the site down for a few minutes, then put it back online with limits on queries.	Feb 03 17:18
The_Mad_Hatter	Distributed backups. I have a copy of the Iowa MS stuff here. What I’m saying is that if you get knocked down, say MS sues you for libel, if someone else has a copy, well….	Feb 03 17:18
schestowitz	The_Mad_Hatter: they can’t sue for libel	Feb 03 17:18
The_Mad_Hatter	I think you got the wrong host <G>	Feb 03 17:18
ushimitsudoki	Whoa. Waugh left GNOME? Is there real hope for the GNOME project?	Feb 03 17:18
schestowitz	And they won’t	Feb 03 17:18
schestowitz	If anything, I could sue Them for libel if they chose this route	Feb 03 17:19
The_Mad_Hatter	Of course they can sue for libel, or whatever else they dream of. They might now win, but they can cause as much trouble as possible. If someone else has a copy, well…	Feb 03 17:19
schestowitz	I once spoke to a lawyer who got Microsoft convicted for libel. I spoke to him in 2006	Feb 03 17:19
schestowitz	ushimitsudoki: GNOME is fine	Feb 03 17:19
schestowitz	I think Waugh was a PR disaster to them. He caused friction /inside/ GNOME.	Feb 03 17:20
schestowitz	Murray for example went Rambo on him.	Feb 03 17:20
The_Mad_Hatter	Hey, I’m paranoid. I’ve seen to much of this sort of stuff over the years.	Feb 03 17:20
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ushimitsudoki	schestowitz: I don’t trust it right now. Seems too many people are too eager to get mono all over it. With Icaza and Waugh out of the picture, things might look up, though	Feb 03 17:20
schestowitz	The_Mad_Hatter: there are already 4 mirrors of Comes that I know of.	Feb 03 17:20
schestowitz	It was a popular torrent in 2007	Feb 03 17:20
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The_Mad_Hatter	Which is how I got it. And how many mirrors of BoycottNovell?	Feb 03 17:21
schestowitz	ushimitsudoki: Mono is a separate issue.	Feb 03 17:21
schestowitz	GNOME != Mono	Feb 03 17:21
schestowitz	But GNOME is deployed with a lot of Mono	Feb 03 17:21
schestowitz	Ubuntu contains Mono	Feb 03 17:21
schestowitz	Ubuntu also contains GNOME	Feb 03 17:21
The_Mad_Hatter	And I strip Mono out of Ubuntu.	Feb 03 17:21
schestowitz	The_Mad_Hatter: no mirror of BN	Feb 03 17:21
ushimitsudoki	schestowitz: In some ways, I agree. My point is a -lot- of people seem to be trying to change that into “gnome == mono” or at least “all the cool bits of gnome == mono”	Feb 03 17:21
The_Mad_Hatter	There’s several threads in the Ubuntu forums covering the issue.	Feb 03 17:22
schestowitz	I don’t think we would mind one. I could set up one at work (simple Apache+PHP+WP thing)	Feb 03 17:22
ushimitsudoki	I felt like that was something Waugh was supportive of (the further integration of mono in gnome). And I -know- that’s something icaza tried to push	Feb 03 17:22
The_Mad_Hatter	I think there needs to be mirrors of BN, preferably in different countries.	Feb 03 17:22
schestowitz	The_Mad_Hatter: the DB is the core of it	Feb 03 17:23
The_Mad_Hatter	Or at least archive copies, that can be put up quickly if anything happens.	Feb 03 17:23
schestowitz	So it could be floated around without the passwords in the DB.	Feb 03 17:23
schestowitz	Groklaw has a mirror too	Feb 03 17:23
schestowitz	Our issue, however, is separate	Feb 03 17:24
The_Mad_Hatter	Of Comes yes. Of the writing you’ve done, if the have it, I didn’t see it.	Feb 03 17:24
schestowitz	Let’s say the load on “Effects” is not the issue but regular loads also	Feb 03 17:24
schestowitz	About 90 DB queries/seconds	Feb 03 17:24
schestowitz	I think Squid will improve this	Feb 03 17:24
schestowitz	It ought to serve identical pages without rerunning the whole thing each time	Feb 03 17:24
The_Mad_Hatter	I don’t know, that sort of stuff is beyond me.	Feb 03 17:25
schestowitz	Since people don’t hammer on the archives as much as on new posts, that ought to help a lot	Feb 03 17:25
schestowitz	I don’t know how Pound and Squid work because I never tried it	Feb 03 17:25
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schestowitz	I imagine that it’s an abstraction layer that keeps copies of pages served and can bypass WordPress	Feb 03 17:26
The_Mad_Hatter	Me either.	Feb 03 17:26
schestowitz	In which case, this would help a lot and keep us on cheap hosting.	Feb 03 17:26
schestowitz	Shane pays those bills.	Feb 03 17:26
schestowitz	The ads help cover this	Feb 03 17:26
schestowitz	So if we moved elsewhere, that would complicate things, I think.	Feb 03 17:27
The_Mad_Hatter	Heh. Thinking about off-site backups, why setup a torrent?	Feb 03 17:27
schestowitz	“Why setup” or “why /not/”?	Feb 03 17:27
schestowitz	The_Mad_Hatter: it’s not simple	Feb 03 17:27
The_Mad_Hatter	Sorry, pain killers are kicking in. Why not?	Feb 03 17:27
schestowitz	I need to ask Shane if he’s OK with floating his posts and the passwords need to be stripped off the DB	Feb 03 17:28
The_Mad_Hatter	I meant technically.	Feb 03 17:28
schestowitz	The_Mad_Hatter: I have statics of the pages. I could zip them up and make that a torrent hosted from here.	Feb 03 17:28
schestowitz	That would make the equivalent of paper trail ‘backup’ of the site	Feb 03 17:29
The_Mad_Hatter	It’s possible to set up a torrent, and add to it over time.	Feb 03 17:29
schestowitz	But anyway, that’s a separate matter	Feb 03 17:29
schestowitz	Another issue is navigation, I think.	Feb 03 17:29
The_Mad_Hatter	So once a week you add the new pages, and anyone who is downloading the torrent gets them automatically.	Feb 03 17:29
schestowitz	If you want to make a sort of ebook, that mat be possible, but it need grepping	Feb 03 17:29
schestowitz	Like s/http:\/boycottnovell.com\/./	Feb 03 17:30
The_Mad_Hatter	yes, that could be a bit of work.	Feb 03 17:30
schestowitz	Oops, sed, not grep	Feb 03 17:30
schestowitz	Anyway, regarding hosting, it’s up to Shane really.	Feb 03 17:31
schestowitz	I’ll post that log for him to read.	Feb 03 17:31
The_Mad_Hatter	I’ve tried setting up an apache/php server once or twice, and messed it up pretty badly.	Feb 03 17:31
schestowitz	That’s acceptable for just secondary (backup)	Feb 03 17:31
The_Mad_Hatter	K, anyway I better go grab another pill, I’m hurting like a bastard today.	Feb 03 17:31
jose__	The_Mad_Hatter, have you added to existing torrents before.. i thought that affected the torrent attributes and effectively means you are creating a new torrent .. meaning, i would imagine, that it would not be picked up by those grabbing the old (???)	Feb 03 17:31
jose__	schestowitz, can you package all the config data for wp and the source tarball.. then add the db and that should be it, right?	Feb 03 17:32
The_Mad_Hatter	jose – if it was explained to me right, it can be done. I admit that it’s not my area of expertise.	Feb 03 17:32
jose__	might there be security risks in giving all that info out?	Feb 03 17:32
The_Mad_Hatter	jose – as long as passwords aren’t included, and personal info in scrubbed, it should be ok	Feb 03 17:33
jose__	also if you give to trusted folks, they can do some work in converting.	Feb 03 17:33
The_Mad_Hatter	Point is BN is drawing a lot of attention. It’s critical of MS. MS has a habit of targeting anyone critical of them.	Feb 03 17:35
jose__	The_Mad_Hatter, i would think the confi data might be required for optimum effect (in general) and mentioned the source to mean the version of wp (in case future versions don’t handle old data accurately) as well as any patches/plugins etc	Feb 03 17:35
The_Mad_Hatter	jose__ – don’t know – again that’s not my area of expertise. Now if you want someone to take apart a file using a hex editor….	Feb 03 17:36
jose__	The_Mad_Hatter.. I completely understand the “why” of distributing widely among trusted groups	Feb 03 17:36
jose__	The_Hex_Hatter .. I’ll have to remember that.	Feb 03 17:36
The_Mad_Hatter	Hell, I’d distribute it everywhere.	Feb 03 17:36
jose__	“everywhere” qualifies as among trusted if the goal is to get coverage	Feb 03 17:37
The_Mad_Hatter	Wonders of the internet. One copy can become 10,000 copies in under a minute.	Feb 03 17:37
jose__	for the time being, volunteers can simply grab digested online copies of various pages.. not randomly but organized so that everything is covered by two or more.	Feb 03 17:37
The_Mad_Hatter	And considering how quickly MS got the Comes stuff taken off line, we want copies	Feb 03 17:38
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/03/call-…	Feb 03 17:38
The_Mad_Hatter	of BN on computers everywhere. I don’t trust those bastards, and while Roy thinks he can handle them legally, I’m not so sure.	Feb 03 17:38
schestowitz	jose__: yes, replicating is simple	Feb 03 17:38
schestowitz	Given a LAMP server set up (centos for example), it’s a matter of dropping in the DB and home directory	Feb 03 17:39
jose__	yes, that’s what i meant.. so which centos standard distrib would be useful info.	Feb 03 17:39
jose__	in 5 or 10 years, devs might break with past	Feb 03 17:40
jose__	of course, if we know the time period, we could just fetch sw from the time period	Feb 03 17:40
The_Mad_Hatter	But that’s why open source is so useful, the breaks can be coded around.	Feb 03 17:40
schestowitz	The_Mad_Hatter: they also tried to take “Boycott Microsoft “offline	Feb 03 17:40
schestowitz	It’s sort of down (it moves)	Feb 03 17:40
schestowitz	*moved	Feb 03 17:40
jose__	i know	Feb 03 17:41
The_Mad_Hatter	Of course I prefer straight GPL myself. Anything that Microsoft doesn’t like, has got to be good.	Feb 03 17:41
jose__	but if all you have is a data file.. it takes skill and time	Feb 03 17:41
jose__	to guesstimate the foss that produced it	Feb 03 17:41
schestowitz	Read this: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/04/2…	Feb 03 17:41
schestowitz	“Now I’m asking myself, how does this Microsoft employee come to be calling my place of business? I certainly don’t post my company phone number on the Boycott Microsoft site.”	Feb 03 17:41
The_Mad_Hatter	Yeah, what I’d expect. That’s why I’m advocating lots of copies. If they take it offline, it comes back – think of the Hydra in Greek myth.	Feb 03 17:41
schestowitz	The site is not there anymore, but one person found it. They moved (Mitch)	Feb 03 17:41
schestowitz	It was receiving a lot of attention (PageRank 6)	Feb 03 17:42
schestowitz	The_Mad_Hatter: remember patent trolltacker?	Feb 03 17:42
The_Mad_Hatter	MS doesn’t like criticism.	Feb 03 17:42
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/patent-…	Feb 03 17:43
schestowitz	He got sued	Feb 03 17:43
The_Mad_Hatter	Yeah, I was a regular there.	Feb 03 17:43
schestowitz	But Cisco was sued as well	Feb 03 17:43
schestowitz	So they can say he ‘shilled’ for Cisco	Feb 03 17:43
schestowitz	This one got cybersquatted: http://boycottnovell.com/bill…	Feb 03 17:43
schestowitz	The guy who built it (collaborator) gave me a copy happily	Feb 03 17:43
schestowitz	So the DB lives on, although it’s not particularly well oraganised… well, the info is still there in full,.	Feb 03 17:44
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schestowitz	wb, kentma	Feb 03 17:44
schestowitz	Does BT do VPS?	Feb 03 17:44
The_Mad_Hatter	That’s why I’d like to see copies of BN everywhere. So that MS knows that a lawsuit isn’t going to get rid of them.	Feb 03 17:44
schestowitz	kentma: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02…	Feb 03 17:44
schestowitz	Had we not been downed on Sunday, we’d make another front page in Digg and other sites	Feb 03 17:45
schestowitz	But the chance was missed due to the technical mess that occurred	Feb 03 17:45
The_Mad_Hatter	Have you followed the action at Wikileaks?	Feb 03 17:46
schestowitz	The Microsoft blogs are feeding the Net Applications nonsense, I see…….	Feb 03 17:46
schestowitz	The_Mad_Hatter: yes	Feb 03 17:46
The_Mad_Hatter	I’m clear. What I mean is that MS has no leverage on me, since I don’t work.	Feb 03 17:47
The_Mad_Hatter	But most people work, and MS can lean.	Feb 03 17:47
The_Mad_Hatter	While they can’t use leverage on me, I can’t do a lot either, other than talk. So that’s what I do.	Feb 03 17:48
schestowitz	I asked Groklaw for a DB copy, but no..	Feb 03 17:51
The_Mad_Hatter	Getting back to Wikileaks, I was one of the many who grabbed the torrent of their database, I have it backed up here	Feb 03 17:51
schestowitz	Others wanted a copy, that’s why I asked	Feb 03 17:51
schestowitz	Do you also have the Wikipedia DB? :-p	Feb 03 17:51
The_Mad_Hatter	PJ is paranoid. Note that this is not a diagnosis.	Feb 03 17:52
The_Mad_Hatter	Wikipedia? Don’t think I have enough storage space. Remember, I don’t work, so got no money.	Feb 03 17:52
jose__	I’ve got the wikipedia db… why?	Feb 03 17:53
jose__		Feb 03 17:53
jose__	all one hegazillgooglion of it	Feb 03 17:54
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The_Mad_Hatter	I think that Al Petrofsky has a copy of Groklaw.	Feb 03 17:56
schestowitz	The_Mad_Hatter: what do you mean “paranoid”?	Feb 03 17:59
schestowitz	Because the MOGster said so?	Feb 03 17:59
schestowitz	She has her reasons for apprehension and she doesn’t want to use PGP encryption for reasonable causes.	Feb 03 18:00
schestowitz	jose__: the Wikipedia DB is not so big	Feb 03 18:00
schestowitz	I think it would fit a hard-drive nicely if you exclude the multimedia components	Feb 03 18:01
The_Mad_Hatter	No, like me. She doesn’t trust a lot of people, and with good reason.	Feb 03 18:01
schestowitz	Yes	Feb 03 18:01
schestowitz	I got a message this morning too	Feb 03 18:01
schestowitz	I have to ensure it’s not a hoax	Feb 03 18:01
schestowitz	It’s about a Microsoft shill.	Feb 03 18:01
jose__	open works to add security and remove some of the trust issues.	Feb 03 18:01
jose__	-> openness	Feb 03 18:02
schestowitz	Also, PJ was betrayed by marbux, so she can’t just trust anyone	Feb 03 18:02
The_Mad_Hatter	Marbux was an ass.	Feb 03 18:02
jose__	my bried dealings with marbux appeared sane.	Feb 03 18:03
jose__	he seemed to have quite a thing against ibm	Feb 03 18:03
The_Mad_Hatter	You can be sane, and still be an ass.	Feb 03 18:03
jose__	this bias is what i think perhaps was interpretable as pro-ms	Feb 03 18:03
jose__	well, then what did you not like about him	Feb 03 18:03
The_Mad_Hatter	He backstabbed PJ.	Feb 03 18:04
The_Mad_Hatter	At least that’s how it looked to me, and I like PJ a lot.	Feb 03 18:04
jose__	i exchanged a few private emails in follow up to him getting booted off odf oiic list.. private stuff but he seemed to have reasonable approach and ideas	Feb 03 18:04
jose__	and i think he underestimated ms	Feb 03 18:04
jose__	he may not be a tech junkie	Feb 03 18:05
jose__	i got a hint that there was a falling out between him and pj, but that doesn’t automatically mean he is an ass.. that’s their private matter i supposed	Feb 03 18:06
The_Mad_Hatter	Maybe. Never talked to him direct, but I did talk to PJ direct several times over the last 4-5 years, and I like her.	Feb 03 18:06
jose__	suppose	Feb 03 18:06
jose__	yes, that’s fine	Feb 03 18:06
jose__	i respect a lot what she has done	Feb 03 18:06
jose__	and i respect her approach in many ways	Feb 03 18:06
The_Mad_Hatter	Guess I’m old fashioned. I tend to treat women better than I treat men.	Feb 03 18:07
jose__	i don’t agree with everything, but that’s because she is not me.	Feb 03 18:07
jose__	you can do that, and you can like pj, and still be level headed	Feb 03 18:07
jose__	or so i try to be.. .. and am not implying you aren’t.. but no one should ever get a free ticket	Feb 03 18:08
schestowitz	jose__: marbux mails me regularly	Feb 03 18:08
schestowitz	Despite the fact that I publicly denounced him many times.	Feb 03 18:08
jose__	pos or neg? i stopped talking with him after that brief period.. i figured i might reply more at some point.. he writes a lot.	Feb 03 18:08
schestowitz	I used to mail him every day	Feb 03 18:08
schestowitz	Becuase he helped with News Picks	Feb 03 18:09
schestowitz	He’s still involved in some circulations	Feb 03 18:09
jose__	he does seem respectable.. but there apparently was a falling out of sorts.. again, i really feel he distrusts ibm but is partially oblivious to ms	Feb 03 18:09
schestowitz	jose__: yes, he writes scroils	Feb 03 18:09
jose__	scro … what?	Feb 03 18:10
schestowitz	I feel guilty if I don’t read through the scrolls	Feb 03 18:10
jose__	yes	Feb 03 18:10
schestowitz	typo	Feb 03 18:10
jose__	lol	Feb 03 18:10
The_Mad_Hatter	hang on	Feb 03 18:10
jose__	i read too, but i really wanted to back away from the odf topic for a while	Feb 03 18:10
jose__	all companies are in tough binds. this applies to ms, novell, ibm, etc.. but we still have to call the worst threats to defend the base community	Feb 03 18:11
jose__	thought it helped ibm in many ways.. pj was doing just that, defending the base community	Feb 03 18:11
jose__	ditto with bn, etc.	Feb 03 18:12
The_Mad_Hatter	Now I can’t find it. There’s a web site where a bunch of ex-groklaw people have been hanging out. I know I bookmarked it, but I can’t remember where.	Feb 03 18:14
schestowitz	What’s the site like?	Feb 03 18:16
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schestowitz	Maybe I know it	Feb 03 18:16
schestowitz	In 2006-07 I was mailing marbux and pj several times per day	Feb 03 18:16
jose__	roy.. that’s like a couple bn databases per day!	Feb 03 18:17
jose__	that’s where your resilience comes from	Feb 03 18:17
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jose__	i’m kidding.. pj never wrote extensively to me directly in the few exchanges and marbux does write fine and i like his thorough coverage	Feb 03 18:18
The_Mad_Hatter	something about flame wars I think.	Feb 03 18:19
jose__	http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructur…	Feb 03 18:19
jose__	baby steps into the bsd word perhaps	Feb 03 18:19
jose__	-> world	Feb 03 18:20
The_Mad_Hatter	Got it – http://www.ip-wars.net/	Feb 03 18:21
The_Mad_Hatter	but it’s down. Latest copy at Archive is from Feb. 2008	Feb 03 18:22
The_Mad_Hatter	http://web.archive.org/web/2008021…	Feb 03 18:22
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The_Mad_Hatter	Ohh. Ohh. The pain. I’m laughing so hard my stomache hurts. Remember RSS using tinfoil on his passport and ID card?	Feb 03 18:31
schestowitz	jose__: what do you mean by “that’s where your resilience comes from”	Feb 03 18:32
jose__	you don’t sleep	Feb 03 18:32
schestowitz	The_Mad_Hatter: that’s an anti-Groklaw site	Feb 03 18:32
The_Mad_Hatter	Read this, it’s freaking hilarious	Feb 03 18:33
schestowitz	She hates it	Feb 03 18:33
The_Mad_Hatter	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/…	Feb 03 18:33
The_Mad_Hatter	yeah, but that’s where Marbux showed up.	Feb 03 18:33
schestowitz	jose__: yes, but it didn’t come from that	Feb 03 18:33
The_Mad_Hatter	Don’t know why he showed up there, but I did see his tag there.	Feb 03 18:33
jose__	i was joking	Feb 03 18:34
jose__	the only thing that bothered me a bit more than normal about pj-groklaw was that i think people should be able to express their concerns and speak their mind. when you judge content, it becomes a guessing game.	Feb 03 18:36
jose__	by judge i mean to moderate out	Feb 03 18:37
jose__	i want to have my say in ms sites (well, let’s assume)	Feb 03 18:37
jose__	this doesn’t mean there aren’t reasons to moderate	Feb 03 18:37
jose__	i don’t know really what gets moderated.	Feb 03 18:37
jose__	once i was warned for something i thought was innocent	Feb 03 18:37
jose__	i don’t like creating trouble, especially with essentially friendly hosts	Feb 03 18:38
jose__	i’d rather remember all the positives about groklaw.. this neg stands out because free speech is so important	Feb 03 18:39
schestowitz	The_Mad_Hatter: are you related to the “Onideus Mad Hatter”?	Feb 03 18:39
The_Mad_Hatter	Moderation is a curse. If you do it you are cursed. If you don’t do it you are cursed.	Feb 03 18:39
jose__	yes, i know	Feb 03 18:39
The_Mad_Hatter	No. But I am the same person who posted on Groklaw using this tag.	Feb 03 18:39
schestowitz	Ah, OK	Feb 03 18:40
schestowitz	jose__: thanks for the LT link. I saw some related job ad from MS earlier	Feb 03 18:42
schestowitz	LT cites /. ….. now, that’s exceptional	Feb 03 18:42
jose__	btw, with control over a site, i would definitely tend to moderate to get rid of attacks, spam (obviously) and certain other content inappropriate for the audience.	Feb 03 18:42
jose__	i already saw myself in action	Feb 03 18:42
jose__	it’s something you appreciate more from the outside.	Feb 03 18:42
schestowitz	Motorola Reports $3.6B Loss as Phone Sales Fall by Half < http://www.pcworld.com/article/158797/motorola… >	Feb 03 18:43
jose__	in this one case i blocked something from a site, i went to some trouble to explain the reason.	Feb 03 18:43
jose__	it’s a horrible predicament to be in.	Feb 03 18:43
jose__	yet, because I know my intentions, you are affected as an outsider when you are on the receiving end.	Feb 03 18:43
schestowitz	It’s inevitable if you get attention	Feb 03 18:43
The_Mad_Hatter	I prefer no moderation myself. I believe in freedom. But there are times when you have to step in.	Feb 03 18:44
schestowitz	The clowns go where they can make a circus with an audience	Feb 03 18:44
The_Mad_Hatter	Like this one site I was running, where some idiot thought that freedom to comment, meant freedom to advertise.	Feb 03 18:44
jose__		Feb 03 18:44
The_Mad_Hatter	And was posting so many ads, that the users started to leave.	Feb 03 18:45
jose__	the rights of the group over the rights of the individual…	Feb 03 18:45
jose__	the balancing act	Feb 03 18:45
The_Mad_Hatter	Yeah. Moderation is necessary, but it needs to be used with care.	Feb 03 18:46
The_Mad_Hatter	FYI – I use a lot of different names, in a lot of different places.	Feb 03 18:46
schestowitz	If you moderate, you can scare away participants.	Feb 03 18:47
schestowitz	Likewise, as in the case of COLA (USENET) of BN, when commenters start attacking other commenters, that’s troubles	Feb 03 18:48
schestowitz	A lot of BN readers would also never comment because of the site’s name	Feb 03 18:48
schestowitz	In Groklaw, comments are deliberately excludes from pages that search engines can index	Feb 03 18:48
The_Mad_Hatter	Yeah. a lot of people thought PJ was too heavy on the moderation.	Feb 03 18:48
schestowitz	High five! Now Brazil Goes Big on the GNU/Linux Desktop < http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009… >	Feb 03 18:49
The_Mad_Hatter	But she had damned good reason to be. Some of the personal attacks that were made on here were pretty bad.	Feb 03 18:49
schestowitz	“At the end of last year I wrote about a big Brazilian project to provide 150,000 GNU/Linux notebooks for schools. Now the Brazilian Ministry of Education has topped that by ordering 324,000 “green” workstations running on GNU/Linux (although I can’t quite tell whether this is as well as or instead of – anyone know?).”	Feb 03 18:49
The_Mad_Hatter	Nope, but good for Brazil.	Feb 03 18:50
The_Mad_Hatter	Ah, lunch. I’ll be back.	Feb 03 18:51
schestowitz	Brazilian exports of soy, iron ore and oil to China are expected to fall 12 percent to US$11.2 billion in 2009, according to a forecast from the Brazil-China Council published in < http://www.macauhub.com.mo/en/news.php?ID=6815 >	Feb 03 18:52
schestowitz	http://ruletheweb.co.uk/b3ta/bus/	Feb 03 18:52
schestowitz	Cool!	Feb 03 18:52
schestowitz	http://ruletheweb.co.uk/b3ta/bus/?s1=Boycott+N…	Feb 03 18:53
jose__	funny link	Feb 03 18:56
jose__	check out this materpiece: http://ruletheweb.co.uk/b3ta/bus/?s1=BOY…	Feb 03 18:56
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schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/…	Feb 03 18:58