04.02.09
IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 1st, 2009 – Part 3
To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
| schestowitz | I see a lot of shill analysts these days like Ina Frief, Shane O’Neil etc. The press is becoming a Turf for a set of shills taking turns. It keeps the publications alive for longer | Apr 01 17:09 |
|---|---|---|
| Yfrwlf | I think it’s pretty easy to say that all political leaders in the U.S. were put there by corporations. If the media doesn’t show your face, you don’t get elected, that’s a fact. Who owns the media, lets see hmmm MSNBC…yeah, I know there are many others, but still.  |
Apr 01 17:09 |
| schestowitz | OT: A vision for the Amazon < http://www.chinadialogue.net/arti… > | Apr 01 17:09 |
| schestowitz | Yfrwlf: yes, it’s conventional assertion. | Apr 01 17:09 |
| schestowitz | In fact, even the public is awar of it, BUT | Apr 01 17:09 |
| schestowitz | They know not what to do about it… they are kept powerless and separate from one another | Apr 01 17:10 |
| schestowitz | What would you, as a Texan in your 60s (say), do if you knew the invasion in Iraq was driven by corruption and lies? What to do next? Convince friends who are busy watching TV to take a place to the National Mall? Go ahead and vandalise things in the streets? Start a blog in blogspot with 0 readers? | Apr 01 17:11 |
| Yfrwlf | Right, well I think each industry has had, or is having, its downfall. It doesn’t take that long before an industry is configured to ruthlessly tout the bigger players in every way it can, and that helps them stay in power. What has happened through time with industries? The mergers of companies into a few monopolies. | Apr 01 17:11 |
| schestowitz | That’s the finesse of the system. People are not able to resist it unless they organise — a practise that’s properly suppressed and has been suppressed in the US for decades. same in the UK wrt independent press | Apr 01 17:12 |
| Yfrwlf | Right, but that’s what governments want of course, is to lay low and out of sight. That’s what businesses do, too, who are under public scrutiny. Relocate to a building without a sign. I’ve seen it. |
Apr 01 17:12 |
| schestowitz | Yfrwlf: convergence in oligopoly is natural. Market forces without regulation lead to a sort of totality, not communism | Apr 01 17:13 |
| schestowitz | Watch how few companies took control of all small papers and radio stations, along with the agenda | Apr 01 17:13 |
| schestowitz | Not really. | Apr 01 17:13 |
| schestowitz | Well, government is the shadow cast upon the people | Apr 01 17:13 |
| schestowitz | It’s a scapegot | Apr 01 17:13 |
| Yfrwlf | Or better yet, pretend that citizens are making a difference, when they aren’t. That’s what I fear about Obama’s new technology and transparency agendas, but at least, in theory, he’s “trying”.. (to make things appear better) | Apr 01 17:14 |
| schestowitz | It’s run by people who put it there. | Apr 01 17:14 |
| schestowitz | So they can proxify via government | Apr 01 17:14 |
| schestowitz | And criticism is then directed at establishments, not private tyrannies (corporations) | Apr 01 17:14 |
| schestowitz | “Trying” = part of the illusion | Apr 01 17:14 |
| schestowitz | Had he tried, then he and Biden wouldn’t put the RIAA in charge of US DOJ | Apr 01 17:15 |
| schestowitz | It’s already happening | Apr 01 17:15 |
| schestowitz | Kill softly and smile | Apr 01 17:15 |
| Yfrwlf | Right, watch how nothing ever happens when something illegal is done, or something that should have been illegal. Nothing. They resign, at worst. | Apr 01 17:15 |
| schestowitz | Like Allchin | Apr 01 17:15 |
| schestowitz | Pretend it’s all for the people | Apr 01 17:15 |
| schestowitz | Euphemisms like “democracy” | Apr 01 17:15 |
| Yfrwlf | yep | Apr 01 17:15 |
| schestowitz | While in fact it’s far, far from it | Apr 01 17:15 |
| schestowitz | “We’re” are equal | Apr 01 17:15 |
| schestowitz | Murdoch is just a ‘little’ more ‘equal’ | Apr 01 17:16 |
| schestowitz | And his C channels ‘present’ both sides | Apr 01 17:16 |
| schestowitz | It’s bad when strawmen are used | Apr 01 17:16 |
| schestowitz | Made up debates | Apr 01 17:16 |
| schestowitz | Or manufactured confrotation | Apr 01 17:16 |
| schestowitz | Over the wrong issues | Apr 01 17:16 |
| schestowitz | Like…. whether Obama is more handsome than McCain | Apr 01 17:17 |
| schestowitz | But never allowing choice to be shown or made where it matters | Apr 01 17:17 |
| Yfrwlf | but that’s exactly why that conversation exists | Apr 01 17:17 |
| schestowitz | Like Iraw invasion | Apr 01 17:17 |
| schestowitz | People can’t even tell where the candidates stand on issues | Apr 01 17:17 |
| Yfrwlf | because they try to choose the best actors they can to fill the strawman roles | Apr 01 17:17 |
| schestowitz | And it’s no accident | Apr 01 17:17 |
| schestowitz | It’s intended to be this way. The PR managers of campaign ensure thiosd | Apr 01 17:17 |
| schestowitz | *this | Apr 01 17:17 |
| Yfrwlf | you’d want them to talk about more specifics, yes, but at the same time the specifics of the law *could* be summarized by stating the spirit of the laws | Apr 01 17:18 |
| Yfrwlf | Obama stated the “spirit” of his laws, his intentions.. | Apr 01 17:18 |
| Yfrwlf | the problem is, you have to then watch how those intentions are being carried out | Apr 01 17:19 |
| schestowitz | Where are you BTW/ | Apr 01 17:20 |
| Yfrwlf | with bill riders and the sheer lawyer-level complexity of laws means hardly anyone even reads them, so they become very difficult to analyse to find out those intentions. | Apr 01 17:20 |
| Yfrwlf | Texas lolz |
Apr 01 17:20 |
| schestowitz | OK | Apr 01 17:20 |
| schestowitz | Cause it matter if the person is US-based or not | Apr 01 17:20 |
| schestowitz | I didn’t know | Apr 01 17:20 |
| schestowitz | So I made up some analogy earlier, in a way | Apr 01 17:20 |
| Yfrwlf | ya | Apr 01 17:20 |
| schestowitz | “Texas” was coincidence | Apr 01 17:20 |
| Yfrwlf | yep | Apr 01 17:21 |
| Yfrwlf | jinx ^^ | Apr 01 17:21 |
| schestowitz | I think radio stations there are mostly owned | Apr 01 17:21 |
| schestowitz | I alwways picture the people with a cowboy hat who say, “if Bush say it’s the right thing to do, then go for it, he’s from Texas..” | Apr 01 17:21 |
| schestowitz | That’s the mantality of consent | Apr 01 17:22 |
| schestowitz | Also with Bill gates | Apr 01 17:22 |
| Yfrwlf | yep | Apr 01 17:22 |
| schestowitz | The role of the press, the media, the radio and intellectual is to praise the leader nio matter what | Apr 01 17:22 |
| schestowitz | They build public endorsement | Apr 01 17:22 |
| schestowitz | it’s heathier for the population | Apr 01 17:22 |
| schestowitz | Not always when it comes to foreign affairs | Apr 01 17:22 |
| Yfrwlf | maybe it’s partially due to the prideful nature of US citizens, and particular Texans, as a whole, I’m sure it doesn’t help that mentality any at least. | Apr 01 17:22 |
| schestowitz | (or treasury bubbles) | Apr 01 17:22 |
| schestowitz | People want spendings on the city, lower taxes, etc | Apr 01 17:23 |
| schestowitz | It’s all possible to supply | Apr 01 17:23 |
| schestowitz | But based on debt | Apr 01 17:23 |
| schestowitz | And you hope that succeeding leaders will take the burden | Apr 01 17:23 |
| schestowitz | So this bubble is passed on | Apr 01 17:23 |
| schestowitz | Like Bush… | Apr 01 17:23 |
| Yfrwlf | debt is a horrible horrible thing that should only be done in times of war or great need basically.. | Apr 01 17:23 |
| schestowitz | Couldn’t wait to go home in late 2008 as they said | Apr 01 17:23 |
| schestowitz | Disappear and retire in the ranch | Apr 01 17:24 |
| schestowitz | Then Democrats lead with rancid toxic waste and get ad reputation in the books | Apr 01 17:24 |
| schestowitz | It’s already happening with the bailout (Reps), which is now “stimulus” (Dems) | Apr 01 17:24 |
| schestowitz | HP plans reign of ink from the cloud < http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1… > | Apr 01 17:24 |
| Yfrwlf | well taking blame for everything is a tough role, whether or not you expected it, it probably would effect even the darkest of hearts. | Apr 01 17:24 |
| schestowitz | Cloud reminds me of some homeless people running to some rich man’s cocoon. | Apr 01 17:25 |
| schestowitz | They have no money, so they become slave/vassal/captive/hostage | Apr 01 17:25 |
| schestowitz | And more businesses will go down this route | Apr 01 17:25 |
| schestowitz | That’s the appeal of ‘clouds’ | Apr 01 17:25 |
| schestowitz | And the reason they want no real standards | Apr 01 17:25 |
| Yfrwlf | sure, everything is moving to service models.. | Apr 01 17:26 |
| Yfrwlf | right | Apr 01 17:26 |
| schestowitz | used to be the case with E-mail (Gmail/yaooo/hotmail) | Apr 01 17:26 |
| schestowitz | Service =subscription | Apr 01 17:26 |
| schestowitz | Sounds appealing | Apr 01 17:26 |
| schestowitz | Cheap… like car with installments | Apr 01 17:26 |
| Yfrwlf | when dealing with clouds, freedom becomes possibly an even bigger issue, because instead of being captive to software on your own computer, you’re captive to it on someone else’s, making it even less free. | Apr 01 17:26 |
| Yfrwlf | yep, and judging by how many computer illiterates there are out there, many will fall for them. | Apr 01 17:27 |
| schestowitz | Yes, it sounds good | Apr 01 17:27 |
| schestowitz | They renamed it | Apr 01 17:27 |
| schestowitz | “Clouds” | Apr 01 17:27 |
| Yfrwlf | making yourself even less free, rather | Apr 01 17:27 |
| schestowitz | Used to be SaaS AFAIK | Apr 01 17:27 |
| schestowitz | Not the same, but similar | Apr 01 17:27 |
| Yfrwlf | fluffy happy soft! ^^ | Apr 01 17:27 |
| schestowitz | Pictures of winmills | Apr 01 17:28 |
| Yfrwlf | hehe | Apr 01 17:28 |
| schestowitz | *windmills | Apr 01 17:28 |
| schestowitz | Wait some years until it rains | Apr 01 17:28 |
| Balrog | Hi everyone. | Apr 01 17:28 |
| schestowitz | Clouds=Gods | Apr 01 17:28 |
| schestowitz | Sofwtare Gods | Apr 01 17:28 |
| Yfrwlf | hey | Apr 01 17:28 |
| schestowitz | Pray to the cloud, ask for your commerce data | Apr 01 17:28 |
| Balrog | hay Yfrwlf … haven’t seen you around before  |
Apr 01 17:28 |
| Balrog | hey * | Apr 01 17:28 |
| schestowitz | “Please, please… man in the CLOUD… I need my contacts, but I can’t get them off your cloud” | Apr 01 17:29 |
| Yfrwlf | well I think that Linux makes needing a software as a service cloud less relevant. I think Linux makes software as a whole less relevant, but simply provides a platform for what doesn’t yet exist, or exists only in closed-source form. | Apr 01 17:29 |
| schestowitz | *LOL* http://www.blogicalthoughts…. | Apr 01 17:31 |
| Yfrwlf | good eye catching ad |
Apr 01 17:31 |
| schestowitz | Yfrwlf: standards are a haven | Apr 01 17:32 |
| schestowitz | I fear that Microsoft will use some deformed unspecific MOOX (OOXML) in the ‘cloud’ | Apr 01 17:32 |
| schestowitz | That’s rather obvious really, but it remains to be seen how it works out | Apr 01 17:32 |
| schestowitz | Yfrwlf: the consent in IRC is that Microsoft is going down the drain, but there are exceptions to this | Apr 01 17:33 |
| *iwmw has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Apr 01 17:33 | |
| Yfrwlf | they will slow that from happening any way they can of course, and that means doing more of the same stuff they’ve been doing for forever | Apr 01 17:34 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft’s new (and last) strategy: patents < http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.s… News/2246029/ > | Apr 01 17:34 |
| schestowitz | I’m glad we’ve covered patents for like 2 years | Apr 01 17:34 |
| schestowitz | zoobab01 too | Apr 01 17:34 |
| schestowitz | Because now it’s one of the most major issues and a last barrier to FOSS, then comes stuff like Google, Amazon… (DRM, cloud) | Apr 01 17:35 |
| Yfrwlf | there are so many ways that citizens are screwed over by a lack of standards…that’s just one apple in the orchard (sorry, couldn’t think of a better metaphor) ^^ | Apr 01 17:36 |
| Yfrwlf | a very big apple though don’t get me wrong lol | Apr 01 17:36 |
| schestowitz | Hiding a Mountain Of Debt < http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/c… >. I’ve read that UK debt is $3 trillion | Apr 01 17:36 |
| Yfrwlf | think of all the billions of dollars that have been wasted on adware, spyware, and virus removal, not to mention general maintenance. | Apr 01 17:37 |
| zoobab01 | FSF lost freedom with GPLv3, Google won the lobbying to remove the Affero clauses from the main GPLv3 text | Apr 01 17:37 |
| Yfrwlf | and all the hardware that has been sold due to Microsoft’s bloatware | Apr 01 17:37 |
| schestowitz | Bank pushing 120% APR loans < http://www.boingboing.net/2… > Burn, baby, burn | Apr 01 17:37 |
| zoobab01 | so there is no freedom in the could | Apr 01 17:37 |
| schestowitz | zoobab01: google still snubs agpl | Apr 01 17:37 |
| zoobab01 | and even if there is free software is the cloud, you put a proxy in between, and it makes no difference | Apr 01 17:37 |
| zoobab01 | Google hates AGPL | Apr 01 17:38 |
| schestowitz | I know. | Apr 01 17:38 |
| schestowitz | It ruins their business model | Apr 01 17:38 |
| schestowitz | “Not good for shareholders…” | Apr 01 17:38 |
| zoobab01 | competitors can propose the same service | Apr 01 17:38 |
| schestowitz | Good for shareholders = (Typically) bad for human rights | Apr 01 17:38 |
| zoobab01 | anyway | Apr 01 17:38 |
| schestowitz | Suppression pays | Apr 01 17:38 |
| schestowitz | Lockin pays | Apr 01 17:39 |
| zoobab01 | there was an swpat workshop in Edinburg today | Apr 01 17:39 |
| schestowitz | Be it DRM, formats, patents, etc,. | Apr 01 17:39 |
| Yfrwlf | it’s amazing to me | Apr 01 17:39 |
| schestowitz | zoobab01: PRO-swpats? | Apr 01 17:39 |
| Yfrwlf | it’s basically what profit IS | Apr 01 17:39 |
| schestowitz | zoobab01: probaly organised by lawyers | Apr 01 17:39 |
| Yfrwlf | if you had to compete directly with other businesses, your profit margin would be very low because of the competition | Apr 01 17:39 |
| schestowitz | Seminar name: “how to monetise software” | Apr 01 17:39 |
| schestowitz | [as a lawyer] | Apr 01 17:39 |
| Yfrwlf | so how do you increase that? Lock-in. | Apr 01 17:40 |
| schestowitz | Real title: “how to incentivise inventors” | Apr 01 17:40 |
| zoobab01 | http://www.law.ed.ac.uk/ahrc/con… | Apr 01 17:40 |
| Yfrwlf | ugh | Apr 01 17:41 |
| Yfrwlf | first it was “technology”, now it’s “inventions”? shoot me >.< | Apr 01 17:41 |
| Yfrwlf | yes, your software (artwork) is such an amazing invention… | Apr 01 17:41 |
| schestowitz | Famed Anonymous Anti-Palin Blogger ‘Outed’ by Lawmaker < http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dawn-teo/… >. See, no hope ever staying anonymous these days. Anyone but min-0microsoft got exposed, afaik. | Apr 01 17:42 |
| schestowitz | zoobab01: grep asp | Apr 01 17:42 |
| Yfrwlf | I didn’t know that a LCD screen could display…pron…from a helicopter…what a breakthrough, here’s your patent. | Apr 01 17:42 |
| schestowitz | Yfrwlf: programmer= inventors | Apr 01 17:42 |
| schestowitz | You can invent an algorithm | Apr 01 17:43 |
| schestowitz | You don’t need to code it | Apr 01 17:43 |
| schestowitz | Just to think about it | Apr 01 17:43 |
| Yfrwlf | and thoughts being patentable is particularly wrong. | Apr 01 17:43 |
| schestowitz | Patents on rectangles cover diamonds too | Apr 01 17:43 |
| Yfrwlf | at least RL physical objects are constrained by the laws of physics. | Apr 01 17:43 |
| schestowitz | Some artists sue over imitation of style. | Apr 01 17:43 |
| schestowitz | “Hey! I invented this brush stroke… You!! give me your money” | Apr 01 17:44 |
| Yfrwlf | it’s infinitely more difficult to create something that functions in RL, unless, you know, there’s nothing radical at all about your “invention” of course. | Apr 01 17:44 |
| Yfrwlf | that’s just wrong | Apr 01 17:44 |
| Yfrwlf | I invented this comic…this picture…this style of artwork…gimmy a break >.< | Apr 01 17:45 |
| schestowitz | IBM tries to patent offshoring < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009… > | Apr 01 17:45 |
| schestowitz | Pj wrote about this too politely | Apr 01 17:45 |
| schestowitz | It’s something you can infringe in using thought alone | Apr 01 17:45 |
| schestowitz | Thought infringement | Apr 01 17:45 |
| Yfrwlf | LOL | Apr 01 17:46 |
| schestowitz | Yfrwlf: copyrights might be OK | Apr 01 17:46 |
| schestowitz | For some things | Apr 01 17:46 |
| Yfrwlf | patenting a business model is also extremely laughable omfg | Apr 01 17:46 |
| schestowitz | Although.. | Apr 01 17:46 |
| schestowitz | I would not chooose them | Apr 01 17:46 |
| schestowitz | There are better things than copyrights | Apr 01 17:46 |
| schestowitz | Like CC or GPL | Apr 01 17:46 |
| schestowitz | You get increased benefit from your work this way | Apr 01 17:46 |
| schestowitz | BSD is the trouble here | Apr 01 17:47 |
| Yfrwlf | meh, IMO all ideas should be shared. Where there is a need for something, there will be a way to get there. | Apr 01 17:47 |
| Yfrwlf | via money or volunteered time or government effort. | Apr 01 17:47 |
| schestowitz | Meaning that people can render your work under different name/content and toss it around everywhere and even sell it as a book for profit | Apr 01 17:47 |
| schestowitz | Restriction of though sharing goes back to schools | Apr 01 17:47 |
| schestowitz | But at school you get ‘free’ information | Apr 01 17:47 |
| schestowitz | Your teacher doesn’t charge you for lessons really. | Apr 01 17:48 |
| schestowitz | Or application of this information | Apr 01 17:48 |
| Yfrwlf | I think the market and society will always create the mechanisms to get from point A to B if there is a need to do so. | Apr 01 17:48 |
| Yfrwlf | right, but they’d like to | Apr 01 17:48 |
| schestowitz | But the idea of elevating one above other is based on restriction of thought, application, or dissemination | Apr 01 17:48 |
| Yfrwlf | quite simply, businesses would like to charge you for air. | Apr 01 17:48 |
| Yfrwlf | so where do you draw the line, is the only question | Apr 01 17:48 |
| schestowitz | So it corresponds to human instricts of wanting other being to do as you say | Apr 01 17:48 |
| schestowitz | You can’ty chanrge for air | Apr 01 17:49 |
| schestowitz | You can for water | Apr 01 17:49 |
| schestowitz | Water is privatised in the UK | Apr 01 17:49 |
| schestowitz | Air is hard to control | Apr 01 17:49 |
| schestowitz | Too easy to ‘steal’ it | Apr 01 17:49 |
| schestowitz | Else there would be someone with a business plan for it, too. | Apr 01 17:49 |
| Yfrwlf | yep | Apr 01 17:49 |
| Yfrwlf | like on Spaceballs  |
Apr 01 17:50 |
| schestowitz | There’s the notion of better air | Apr 01 17:50 |
| schestowitz | Like tiered air or air neutrality | Apr 01 17:50 |
| schestowitz | Where one person lives next to a lanfull | Apr 01 17:50 |
| schestowitz | Polluters. | Apr 01 17:50 |
| schestowitz | And there’s mineral water | Apr 01 17:50 |
| Yfrwlf | Alpine Air: Get away from the city and breath fresh air straight from nature…I can see it now. | Apr 01 17:51 |
| schestowitz | So nature’s blessings too become a property, just like territory | Apr 01 17:51 |
| Yfrwlf | right | Apr 01 17:51 |
| schestowitz | China and Los Angeles have terrible air | Apr 01 17:51 |
| schestowitz | Olympic athletes even wore masks (at least one of them) in 2008 | Apr 01 17:52 |
| Yfrwlf | I see a business ideaaaaaaaaaaaa $$$$$$$$$ lol | Apr 01 17:52 |
| schestowitz | So you can’t assess how bad air can be until it gets noticeably bad. | Apr 01 17:52 |
| Yfrwlf | yes, Cali, you can have Idaho’s fresh air, for only $10 per bottle |
Apr 01 17:52 |
| schestowitz | Bottle? | Apr 01 17:52 |
| schestowitz | Won’t last long | Apr 01 17:52 |
| Yfrwlf | keg? | Apr 01 17:52 |
| Yfrwlf | if you compress it? ^^ lol | Apr 01 17:53 |
| schestowitz | Actually, purifiers make some sense | Apr 01 17:53 |
| schestowitz | I suppose some hospitals vend these | Apr 01 17:53 |
| Yfrwlf | but what about ozone gas |
Apr 01 17:53 |
| schestowitz | Won’t help | Apr 01 17:53 |
| Yfrwlf | no I mean air purifiers produce it if they use ionization to purify | Apr 01 17:53 |
| schestowitz | TSA’s ‘SimpliFLY’ motto challenged < http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fl… > | Apr 01 17:53 |
| Yfrwlf | I bought an Ionic Breeze and it had a warning on it that it produced ozone, and may be harmful to anyone with breathing difficulties basically | Apr 01 17:54 |
| schestowitz | So a little like freon in cans of deodorant | Apr 01 17:54 |
| schestowitz | Smell good, do bad to the atmosphere | Apr 01 17:54 |
| Yfrwlf | yep, not sure how much it produces or anything, but apparently enough to put a warning label on it… | Apr 01 17:55 |
| schestowitz | Smell bad by not nathing, reduce greenhouse effect (boiling needs) | Apr 01 17:55 |
| schestowitz | *bathing | Apr 01 17:55 |
| schestowitz | Linking as an office again: Pirate Bay linking could implicate Facebook, says lawyer < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009… > | Apr 01 17:57 |
| Yfrwlf | I love it how it’s almost impossible to tell the difference between which (or what should) institutions are supposed to be government ones, and which are corporate ones.. | Apr 01 17:57 |
| Yfrwlf | they all behave like corporations |
Apr 01 17:58 |
| schestowitz | They should | Apr 01 17:58 |
| schestowitz | Based on the belief system | Apr 01 17:58 |
| schestowitz | That which states that any entity that’s not human gets the same rights but act like an unaccountable tyranny | Apr 01 17:59 |
| schestowitz | So even the post office is like a tyranny | Apr 01 17:59 |
| schestowitz | It’s not really run by the public | Apr 01 17:59 |
| schestowitz | There are managers who can abuse subordinate | Apr 01 17:59 |
| schestowitz | Proper tyranny | Apr 01 17:59 |
| schestowitz | But contained within a country | Apr 01 18:00 |
| schestowitz | Weird April Fool’s: Red Hat ponders going proprietary < http://tech.yahoo.com/news/infowo… > | Apr 01 18:20 |
| MinceR | i prefer http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?s… | Apr 01 18:23 |
| schestowitz | Not funny!! Good idea |
Apr 01 18:26 |
| schestowitz | Better than MSIE | Apr 01 18:26 |
| MinceR | the lynx toolbar is definitely funny :> | Apr 01 18:29 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft employees too are using GNU/Linux now: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04… | Apr 01 18:40 |
| MinceR | http://www.shlomifish.org/humo… | Apr 01 19:06 |
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| MinceR | http://www.phoronix.com/scan… | Apr 01 19:08 |
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| Carl_Rover2k12 | Google shows its true face for Android by banning tethering apps from the app store: http://www.falsedichotomies… | Apr 01 19:22 |
| schestowitz | Android=DRM, marketing | Apr 01 19:22 |
| schestowitz | it’s Linux’ worst nightmare | Apr 01 19:22 |
| schestowitz | Hijacked by a large corporation, sort of fork and deformed to make the Big Business happy | Apr 01 19:23 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: best of all Google did it without any public conscent from T-Mobile, in fact T-Mobile has been playing good cop oddly enough http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/23/… | Apr 01 19:24 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: so what other ilk has indirectly befallen upon the open source community? | Apr 01 19:27 |
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| schestowitz | AGPL haters.. | Apr 01 19:29 |
| schestowitz | But Google should be pressured over this | Apr 01 19:29 |
| schestowitz | Even Apple caved due to iphone pressure from the public | Apr 01 19:29 |
| MinceR | google should be killed | Apr 01 19:30 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | MinceR: move onto using Altavista and IXQuick as your primary search engines | Apr 01 19:30 |
| MinceR | i’ve tried ixquick, but i’m mostly using scroogle now :/ | Apr 01 19:30 |
| *MinceR gives AV a try | Apr 01 19:30 | |
| MinceR | well, at least i can search without accents on AV | Apr 01 19:31 |
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| Carl_Rover2k12 | MinceR: yea, mind you Altavista is now owned by Yahoo but they have kept the interface clean and most of the searches commercial free. They even use it as a platform to test new search functions. And Bablefish translator is still one of the best when it comes to translating respective languages or at least 2nd to Babylon | Apr 01 19:33 |
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| MinceR | so it’s Yahoo!, except better? :> | Apr 01 19:33 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | they did remove video searches though | Apr 01 19:33 |
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| MinceR | and i suppose i’d have to use it through Tor to keep my privacy | Apr 01 19:34 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: whats with all the AGPL hating? | Apr 01 19:34 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | MinceR: yea.. and with Tor make sure you always use a new tab when going into a webpage because there is no way of going back | Apr 01 19:35 |
| MinceR | why? i didn’t notice that | Apr 01 19:35 |
| MinceR | (though i didn’t use Tor that much…) | Apr 01 19:35 |
| Balrog | which AGPL hating? | Apr 01 19:37 |
| Balrog | AGPL is good | Apr 01 19:37 |
| schestowitz | Yes, Google, hates it | Apr 01 19:37 |
| Balrog | “Google shows its true face for Android by banning tethering apps from the app store” … don’t do it, and face loss of revenue from subsidies. A better way to do it is to block such apps only where they aren’t allowed | Apr 01 19:38 |
| schestowitz | RMS made a compromise | Apr 01 19:38 |
| schestowitz | For open source whiners mostly | Apr 01 19:38 |
| Balrog | documentation? I know google doesn’t want to use it, but where? | Apr 01 19:38 |
| Balrog | schestowitz: you mean that js hooking thing? | Apr 01 19:38 |
| schestowitz | They want to proprietarise GPL code using the network | Apr 01 19:38 |
| Balrog | but isn’t code transmitted to your machine when it runs? | Apr 01 19:38 |
| schestowitz | No, nothing to do with JS | Apr 01 19:38 |
| schestowitz | That’s separate | Apr 01 19:39 |
| schestowitz | The “JS Trap” | Apr 01 19:39 |
| Balrog | I read that one | Apr 01 19:39 |
| MinceR | Balrog: if android was good enough, it would sell even if no telcos would offer to sell them | Apr 01 19:40 |
| MinceR | at least outside the usa | Apr 01 19:40 |
| MinceR | subsidies are less important when the device is as expensive as a pda/phone anyway | Apr 01 19:40 |
| Balrog | well, in the USA subsidies are extremely important. | Apr 01 19:42 |
| Balrog | who wants to pay $700 for an unsubsidized phone (here, at least?) | Apr 01 19:42 |
| Balrog | you either play in the market or don’t get anywhere, unfortunately, that’s how it is | Apr 01 19:43 |
| MinceR | it isn’t just a phone | Apr 01 19:43 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | Balrog: without subsidies there would be no other being to the handicapped plans US carriers have, people would be moving to Pay As You Go Providers such as Virgin and Boost by the droves | Apr 01 19:43 |
| MinceR | iirc i’ve paid more than $700 for my pda/phone, and it isn’t provider locked | Apr 01 19:44 |
| Balrog | problem with pay as you go is this: **NO DATA** or data is per-KB | Apr 01 19:44 |
| Balrog | MinceR: they should just force carriers to unlock devices after contract runs out | Apr 01 19:44 |
| Balrog | many countries do this | Apr 01 19:44 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | Balrog_: true but once you start entering “unlimited data” providers really don’t make as much as they would hope to as per other limited monthly tiers. | Apr 01 19:44 |
| MinceR | they should ban locking completely | Apr 01 19:44 |
| MinceR | or at least make it legal and accessible to unlock them at any time | Apr 01 19:45 |
| Balrog | MinceR: that would work if there was a good way to recoup lost subsidies | Apr 01 19:45 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | Balrog: problems is Verizon actually changes the OS on certain phones, or installs their own which is forever locked. Unless someone does a JTAG reformat | Apr 01 19:45 |
| MinceR | telcos need to be stopped from their customer-hostile practices and they need to be punished for them | Apr 01 19:45 |
| Balrog | Carl_Rover2k12: not only that, also, Verizon and Sprint use CDMA which no one else uses | Apr 01 19:46 |
| MinceR | Balrog: if they can’t offer subsidies with fair terms then they shouldn’t offer them at all | Apr 01 19:46 |
| Balrog | there is no sim card | Apr 01 19:46 |
| MinceR | s/with/on/ | Apr 01 19:46 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | Balrog: South Korea and Chinese providers use CDMA and they have a healthy culture of unlocked phones | Apr 01 19:46 |
| Balrog | the same type of cdma? | Apr 01 19:46 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | Balrog: in SK its mostly a frequency difference, in China its their own kind with even their own special SIM cards | Apr 01 19:47 |
| Balrog | MinceR: explain fair terms. Subsidies is a type of delayed payment system | Apr 01 19:47 |
| Balrog | Carl_Rover2k12: SIM cards make changing phones practical | Apr 01 19:47 |
| MinceR | Balrog: fair terms include no lock-in and no crippled software on the phone | Apr 01 19:47 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | Balrog_: it also benefits the Chinese government greatly on requiring a backdoor for easedropping, but thats aside from the point | Apr 01 19:47 |
| Balrog | Well, no lock-in once you’ve paid for the phone fully. As long as you haven’t, it’s not yet *your* phone | Apr 01 19:48 |
| Balrog | Carl_Rover2k12: I realize that | Apr 01 19:48 |
| Balrog | MinceR: crippled software is another story | Apr 01 19:48 |
| MinceR | so you do pay $700 for the phone anyway | Apr 01 19:49 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | Balrog: fortunately many Verizon folk using Winmo phones have managed to install firmware for Sprint on their phones to unlock features. Same can maybe be done, if not more easily, with Linux phones. | Apr 01 19:49 |
| MinceR | :> | Apr 01 19:49 |
| Balrog | yes. Once you pay the $700, I don’t see why you should be restricted. | Apr 01 19:49 |
| MinceR | also, telcos should stuff these “no tethering” terms and similar crap where the sun doesn’t shine | Apr 01 19:49 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | Balrog: its because you are still using their “services” | Apr 01 19:50 |
| MinceR | and what if the telco goes bankrupt in the meantime? | Apr 01 19:50 |
| Balrog | But price tags here are problematic. People cringe when they see $700 | Apr 01 19:50 |
| MinceR | people are stupid | Apr 01 19:50 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | Balrog: this maybe a good excuse with dumbphones but not smart ones | Apr 01 19:50 |
| Balrog | no tethering is more about data usage | Apr 01 19:50 |
| Balrog | just implement a meter so you don’t go over the 5GB cap, and throttle during high volume hours, and it should be ok | Apr 01 19:51 |
| Balrog | (meter meaning something visible to the user) | Apr 01 19:51 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | Balrog: I think Verizon Datacards require you to install PoePoe styled login software that comes with a data meter | Apr 01 19:51 |
| Balrog | no, meaning *on the phone* | Apr 01 19:52 |
| Balrog | not on the computer | Apr 01 19:52 |
| Balrog | installing bloatware on the computer isn’t good for me | Apr 01 19:52 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | Balrog: ok, then in that case someone should create an app for that, the only problem is it can only work on true multi-tasking OSs | Apr 01 19:52 |
| MinceR | if it’s about data usage then they should state it as a limit | Apr 01 19:53 |
| MinceR | instead of making developers cripple their phones | Apr 01 19:53 |
| Balrog | Carl_Rover2k12: iPhone OS is a true multitasking OS; just jailbreak it … there is such an app … or you could even do ‘ssh -D 8080 -Nf mobile@iphone-hostname’ | Apr 01 19:53 |
| Balrog | MinceR: they do, in the TOS (at least the data limit) | Apr 01 19:54 |
| Balrog | it’s not only the data limit, but also how heavy the usage is | Apr 01 19:54 |
| Balrog | Carl_Rover2k12: PalmOS is not a true multitasking OS | Apr 01 19:54 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | Balrog: you mean the classic or WebOS? | Apr 01 19:54 |
| MinceR | Balrog: yet above we see google blocking an app because it provides tethering and a telco didn’t want it to exist | Apr 01 19:54 |
| Balrog | classic | Apr 01 19:55 |
| Balrog | MinceR: because telco TOS here says ‘no tethering’ | Apr 01 19:55 |
| Balrog | I can’t tell the telco to change | Apr 01 19:55 |
| MinceR | which is what i’m talking about | Apr 01 19:55 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | Balrog: actually it could be to a limited extent from what I read, but it requires developers to create apps that can specify the needed system resources without going over a certain limit | Apr 01 19:55 |
| Balrog | if I do iphone tethering I break the TOS, but will they know if I don’t overuse it? | Apr 01 19:55 |
| MinceR | and since we have states taking our weapons and our rights to defend our freedom away from us, the same states should force telcos to stop doing exactly that. | Apr 01 19:56 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | MinceR: telcos have the money, they pretty much bankroll the FCC and legislatures to do their bidding. read up on “Connected Nation” sometime | Apr 01 19:56 |
| Balrog | would you think they should be allowed to use deep packet inspection for tethering if they were to allow it? It’s cellular service | Apr 01 19:57 |
| Balrog | on the service provided by tethering * | Apr 01 19:57 |
| MinceR | Carl_Rover2k12: i know how the corpocracy works | Apr 01 19:57 |
| MinceR | Balrog: i think they should be allowed to die in a fire. | Apr 01 19:57 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | MinceR: and then you have other interests groups such as Public Knowledge fighting with Connected Nation over stimulus money to the point of paying bloggers to report on the latter | Apr 01 19:58 |
| Balrog | well, they’re not going away anytime soon :/ | Apr 01 19:58 |
| imamilkydrunk | i suppose that it’s 1st april joke that yahoo bought freenode | Apr 01 19:58 |
| MinceR | it is physically possible to provide telecom services without ripping off the customer, and there’s probably good business in it | Apr 01 19:58 |
| MinceR | it just has to be made to happen. | Apr 01 19:58 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | MinceR: wasn’t Helio supposed to be pitched as the savior? | Apr 01 19:59 |
| MinceR | i haven’t heard of helio | Apr 01 19:59 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | MinceR: they were the result of a partnership between WorldCom and SK Telecom to provide reasonable contracts for high data plans with voice on feature rich phones from South Korea. It piggybacked over Sprint Nextel and Alltel networks. | Apr 01 20:01 |
| MinceR | what happened to them? | Apr 01 20:01 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | MinceR: needless to say not enough people signed on and there phones quickly became obsolete from what was being offered by the iPhone and other media mogul phones. Worldcom backed out of financing and SK sold it to another MVNO Virgin | Apr 01 20:02 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | MinceR: simply put most people didn’t seem interested in paying slightly more then comparable to other network plans in minutes for much cheaper data and being a smaller company couldn’t release phones fast enough nor subsidize them to keep the American public attention | Apr 01 20:04 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | MinceR: in other words Americans mostly use their cellphones for two things talking and obsolete texting. As long as they can be offered a cellphone for next to nothing with those features and a fat set of minutes with fatter for nights and weekends they are happy as a clam | Apr 01 20:06 |
| MinceR | lol iphone | Apr 01 20:06 |
| MinceR | well, that’s nice. i’m not an american, though. | Apr 01 20:06 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | MinceR: maybe the iPhone has changed that perception of cellphones in the US more, who knows | Apr 01 20:06 |
| MinceR | hardly | Apr 01 20:06 |
| MinceR | the iphone fails hard at being a smartphone | Apr 01 20:07 |
| Balrog | MinceR: that’s your opinion | Apr 01 20:07 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | MinceR: but its just enough to introduce features in such a way most of the public didn’t even know a cellphone can do well | Apr 01 20:07 |
| MinceR | so the RDF finally allows the typical american idiot to find a feature in the menu that has been there for a decade already? | Apr 01 20:08 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | MinceR: or pushed providers into being confortable introducing them in such a way they find profitable and previously locked out | Apr 01 20:09 |
| MinceR | well, nobody needed providers to introduce them | Apr 01 20:10 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | MinceR: sadly in the US for the most part, you do |
Apr 01 20:10 |
| MinceR | as you can get a phone without the help of the provider over most of the planet | Apr 01 20:10 |
| MinceR | luckily US only covers a fraction of the planet | Apr 01 20:10 |
| MinceR | one can make a good profit selling phones even if the usians keep using empty cans connected with strings. | Apr 01 20:11 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | MinceR: for now, mwahahahahaha. US Intelectual Property and licensing world for everyone! | Apr 01 20:12 |
| MinceR | i hope they can’t push that nightmare on the rest of the world | Apr 01 20:12 |
| Balrog | MinceR: EU (C) directives require DMCA-style anti-circumvention | Apr 01 20:12 |
| MinceR | Balrog: and yet i can get provider-independent phones in the EU | Apr 01 20:13 |
| MinceR | and i know, the WIPO treaty covers most of the planet | Apr 01 20:13 |
| MinceR | they must be killed with fire. | Apr 01 20:13 |
| Balrog | that’s because they recognize that variety of locking anticompetitive behavior | Apr 01 20:13 |
| MinceR | WIPO copyright treaty or what they call it. | Apr 01 20:13 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | MinceR: most UN agencies are a farse | Apr 01 20:16 |
| schestowitz | Yup | Apr 01 20:16 |
| MinceR | i suspected so | Apr 01 20:17 |
| MinceR | unfortunately i don’t know a lot about the UN | Apr 01 20:17 |
| schestowitz | “How many times have MS hijacked other companies names in an attempt to confuse the public. MyPhone instead of iPhone, “PALM PC” instead of PALM PILOT. There are others I think. Now its Windows Server Foundation to confuse Joe Public with Lotus Foundations server” | Apr 01 20:18 |
| schestowitz | “indows Server 2008 Foundation is intended for small firms without dedicated IT staff but that want to store files, share printers, host software and serve as Internet gateways [..] Foundation servers will compete with servers running the free Linux operating system, such as IBM’s similarly named Lotus Foundations server appliance.” | Apr 01 20:19 |
| *amd-linux (i=54393cc4@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-af740a98ebb122b5) has joined #boycottnovell | Apr 01 20:19 | |
| schestowitz | Spotted here by a reader: http://www.computerworld.com/action/art… | Apr 01 20:19 |
| schestowitz | Office Open XML… | Apr 01 20:19 |
| schestowitz | “open document formats…” (today’s example in BN) | Apr 01 20:19 |
| schestowitz | They have marketing people without shame | Apr 01 20:19 |
| MinceR | i don’t remember MyPhone or Palm PC | Apr 01 20:19 |
| schestowitz | Stealing associations and pretending it was innocent | Apr 01 20:19 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: not seen it? | Apr 01 20:20 |
| schestowitz | Palm sued I think? | Apr 01 20:20 |
| MinceR | nope | Apr 01 20:20 |
| schestowitz | And MyPhone is recent | Apr 01 20:20 |
| MinceR | i’d expect them to | Apr 01 20:20 |
| schestowitz | Balrog would know | Apr 01 20:20 |
| schestowitz | Roughly Drafted wrote about it IIRC | Apr 01 20:20 |
| Balrog | I can look it up | Apr 01 20:20 |
| schestowitz | MyPhone and iPhone are phonetically almost th same | Apr 01 20:20 |
| schestowitz | So Microsoft is piggybacking other people’s good reputation | Apr 01 20:21 |
| schestowitz | Ruining our vocabulary | Apr 01 20:21 |
| MinceR | unearned good reputation :> | Apr 01 20:21 |
| Balrog | http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tec… | Apr 01 20:21 |
| Balrog | http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/… | Apr 01 20:21 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | Balrog: Windows CE had potential, it was the first mobile OS to be able to use 2 3D APIs (DirectX and OpenGL) before any other even considered it. But then M$ and carriers found it too open for their liking and made WinMo | Apr 01 20:24 |
| MinceR | ic | Apr 01 20:24 |
| Balrog | I see. WinCE was still legacy code, no? | Apr 01 20:24 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | Balrog: I think so, not sure how much of it was based in NT4. | Apr 01 20:25 |
| amd-linux | in other news: Google removed all music from Youtube as our content mafia wants 1 cent per view… boy, THAT sucks | Apr 01 20:25 |
| amd-linux | for German audience | Apr 01 20:25 |
| MinceR | perhaps that will teach people to share their videos elsewhere | Apr 01 20:26 |
| Balrog | amd-linux: people will be pissed at the content mafia | Apr 01 20:26 |
| Balrog | Google is making it clear to people who’s responsible | Apr 01 20:26 |
| amd-linux | it was in prime time news just a few nminutes ago | Apr 01 20:26 |
| MinceR | i was pretty pissed off when they removed the account and all videos of a guy who makes funny video reviews of crappy PC games | Apr 01 20:26 |
| amd-linux | on german state TV | Apr 01 20:26 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | MinceR: like one that doesn’t have crummy audio quality and pixelated supercompressed viewing except for those for commercial use that payed alittle extra | Apr 01 20:26 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | and have popup ads | Apr 01 20:26 |
| MinceR | Balrog: next time you’ll say we should thank google for the whole thing | Apr 01 20:27 |
| MinceR | Carl_Rover2k12: indeed | Apr 01 20:27 |
| amd-linux | anyway, we still have Last.FM, but Youtube grew to the largest music repo | Apr 01 20:27 |
| MinceR | embedding video properly would be a plus | Apr 01 20:27 |
| MinceR | instead of adobe trash | Apr 01 20:27 |
| MinceR | or silver lie | Apr 01 20:27 |
| amd-linux | wait for FF 3.5…. Opera will also support it | Apr 01 20:27 |
| Balrog | Opera will have ogg <video> ? | Apr 01 20:28 |
| amd-linux | the <video> tag I mean | Apr 01 20:28 |
| amd-linux | yes I think so | Apr 01 20:28 |
| MinceR | video player plugins have worked for quite some time already, even if not quite standard | Apr 01 20:28 |
| amd-linux | I think it already supports it in a beta | Apr 01 20:28 |
| MinceR | though i personally prefer <a> links to the video file | Apr 01 20:28 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | amd-linux: that will be awesome as it will make the potential to create platform agnostic video content | Apr 01 20:28 |
| Balrog | Oh… Safari supports <video> and <audio> but you need the XiphQT quicktime component for Ogg | Apr 01 20:28 |
| Balrog | http://www.xiph.org/quicktime/ | Apr 01 20:28 |
| amd-linux | well, that is the idea behind it…. | Apr 01 20:28 |
| Balrog | or a suitable plugin on windows | Apr 01 20:28 |
| Balrog | (4.0 beta this is) | Apr 01 20:29 |
| Balrog | I hope they make ogg the standard | Apr 01 20:29 |
| Balrog | or at least the de-facto standard | Apr 01 20:29 |
| Balrog | so that all browsers must support it | Apr 01 20:29 |
| MinceR | or at least all but IE :> | Apr 01 20:29 |
| amd-linux | isnt it already endorsed by W3C? for <video> tag? | Apr 01 20:29 |
| Balrog | W3C is not sure | Apr 01 20:30 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | amd-linux: I thought W3C favored H.264 more? | Apr 01 20:30 |
| MinceR | at least until apple and nokia decide otherwise | Apr 01 20:30 |
| Balrog | Apple expresses fear of submarine patents | Apr 01 20:30 |
| ToreadorVampire | Urgh, you won’t get professional web devs to switch to other technologies if majority-use browser don’t support them | Apr 01 20:30 |
| MinceR | you can’t reasonably expect IE to support anything properly | Apr 01 20:30 |
| ToreadorVampire | This is why Flash has won the embedded video war atm | Apr 01 20:30 |
| Balrog | ToreadorVampire: Firefox and Opera are not majority-use browsers? Pull out IE and see what happens. | Apr 01 20:30 |
| amd-linux | hey, anybody from London here? How was casual Tuesday? |
Apr 01 20:30 |
| amd-linux | ahm Wednesday…. | Apr 01 20:30 |
| ToreadorVampire | amd-linux> Traffic hell I hear | Apr 01 20:31 |
| MinceR | they could detect the browser and put on a message saying “if you can’t see the video, you should switch to a real browser” | Apr 01 20:31 |
| MinceR | or something | Apr 01 20:31 |
| amd-linux | hehe I guess…. | Apr 01 20:31 |
| amd-linux | my website already does this | Apr 01 20:31 |
| amd-linux | i am actively blocking IE6 | Apr 01 20:31 |
| ToreadorVampire | I don’t work in the city myself (I’m a teeny bit north) but my facebook news stream is full of “WARFLGARBL! TRAFFIC! TOOK 3 HOURS TO GET OUT OF LONDON” messages | Apr 01 20:31 |
| amd-linux | and made at least one person switch… |
Apr 01 20:31 |
| MinceR | you misspelled Warflgrbl | Apr 01 20:32 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | ToreadorVampire: 3 Cheers for the G whatever summit | Apr 01 20:32 |
| ToreadorVampire | lol MinceR I am using the alternative version |
Apr 01 20:32 |
| ToreadorVampire | G20 that would be | Apr 01 20:32 |
| amd-linux | there was a funny artivle on the Reg about bankers in London today, and one comment was great, from a banker who wanted to waer his stripe suit | Apr 01 20:32 |
| ToreadorVampire | Hehe – but … seriously – amd-linux what is the target audience of your site? | Apr 01 20:32 |
| amd-linux | and bash the protesters ))) |
Apr 01 20:32 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | ToreadorVampire: even if its G375 nothing will come out of it | Apr 01 20:32 |
| Balrog | amd-linux: what’s your website? | Apr 01 20:33 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | except drunken world leaders of course | Apr 01 20:33 |
| amd-linux | Linux users… HP NX6325 Ubuntu users, to be specific | Apr 01 20:33 |
| amd-linux | so no big site, but still….. | Apr 01 20:33 |
| Balrog | url? | Apr 01 20:33 |
| ToreadorVampire | Coz I’m a professional web dev, and I wouldn’t even consider taking measures to make clients’ sites incompatible with IE6 | Apr 01 20:33 |
| ToreadorVampire | While IE6 has a market share over 5% I will support it | Apr 01 20:33 |
| amd-linux | will not reveal for some reason but google for ubuntu on nx6325 … | Apr 01 20:34 |
| amd-linux | I wrote an article why I did it | Apr 01 20:34 |
| ToreadorVampire | Also – how are you detecting IE6? | Apr 01 20:34 |
| amd-linux | WP-Ban plugin | Apr 01 20:34 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | amd-linux: we already came to an agreement on this channel before not to Google |
Apr 01 20:35 |
| amd-linux | and browser ID | Apr 01 20:35 |
| Balrog | ToreadorVampire: I wouldn’t consider taking measures against IE6 but I wouldn’t put effort into making sites work with IE6 | Apr 01 20:35 |
| schestowitz | More selling of children to corporations: http://boycottnovell.com/2… | Apr 01 20:35 |
| MinceR | ToreadorVampire: not to make them incompatible, just to display a warning stating that it might be incompatible |
Apr 01 20:35 |
| MinceR | (which it almost certainly is, if the page is standard) | Apr 01 20:35 |
| Balrog | heh, I see your site. | Apr 01 20:35 |
| amd-linux | as my site’s taget audinece is Linux crowd, it does not matter | Apr 01 20:35 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | amd-linux: and this is why I would never want to put Unbuntu natively on my laptop | Apr 01 20:35 |
| amd-linux | but of course a commercial website maybe can not afford to block IE6 (yet) | Apr 01 20:35 |
| Balrog | it wouldn’t hurt to put a warning | Apr 01 20:36 |
| ToreadorVampire | Yeah | Apr 01 20:36 |
| Balrog | problem with blocking is kiosks | Apr 01 20:36 |
| Balrog | you may not have access to the software on a kiosk machine | Apr 01 20:36 |
| MinceR | if commercial websites can afford to force users to install adobe trash, why can’t they afford to force them to install a real browser? | Apr 01 20:36 |
| ToreadorVampire | I keep meaning to find a good javascript IE6 warning message | Apr 01 20:36 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | Balrog: Kiosks are DRM ridden consumer traps | Apr 01 20:36 |
| amd-linux | I donmt mind…. it is my webiste, and 90% of traffic with IE6 id was BOTS and attacks | Apr 01 20:36 |
| Balrog | Carl_Rover2k12: no, I mean the type that a school might have | Apr 01 20:36 |
| Balrog | or a library | Apr 01 20:37 |
| ToreadorVampire | MinceR> Because: | Apr 01 20:37 |
| Balrog | often you can use a flashdrive and portable OS, but not always | Apr 01 20:37 |
| schestowitz | amd-linux: the mafiaa did something similar to YouTUbe UK | Apr 01 20:37 |
| ToreadorVampire | 1) Chances are the end user has Flash already for their browser | Apr 01 20:37 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | Balrog: ahh, ok. thats true, but that is if the school’s PC admin did not convince faculty to do a wide scale upgrade already | Apr 01 20:37 |
| ToreadorVampire | 2) The Flash content is specific content that cannot be delivered in a suitable cross-platform way | Apr 01 20:37 |
| amd-linux | Google nowadays is very powerful – i like how they fight this pressure | Apr 01 20:37 |
| ToreadorVampire | (without complex instructions that regular users could not follow) | Apr 01 20:37 |
| amd-linux | of the content mafia | Apr 01 20:37 |
| Balrog | schestowitz: YouTube US as well, only with WB media though | Apr 01 20:37 |
| MinceR | perhaps there should be a plugin or activex control the user could allow to run which would ask the user for permission and then install a real browser and launch it :> | Apr 01 20:37 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | amd-linux: fight, more like bend like Bamboo | Apr 01 20:38 |
| schestowitz | amd-linux: good news about opera,if true | Apr 01 20:38 |
| ToreadorVampire | What? A rootkit? lolno | Apr 01 20:38 |
| MinceR | ToreadorVampire: entire commercial sites are made in flash nowadays | Apr 01 20:38 |
| schestowitz | I didn’t hear about them formally adding support | Apr 01 20:38 |
| MinceR | you can’t even read the text if you don’t have that crap | Apr 01 20:38 |
| Balrog | http://my.opera.com/ResearchWizard/blog… | Apr 01 20:38 |
| schestowitz | They lobbies for Ogg more than anyone, I think | Apr 01 20:38 |
| Balrog | in 2007 | Apr 01 20:38 |
| amd-linux | jesus too much traffic in this channel |
Apr 01 20:38 |
| ToreadorVampire | MinceR> Oh, no – I’m not talking about those – they have no excuse | Apr 01 20:38 |
| MinceR | ToreadorVampire: no, not a rootkit | Apr 01 20:38 |
| MinceR | it would tell specifically what it does | Apr 01 20:38 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | amd-linux: Google only fights where they can see an unprofitable venture and brownie points from the public for doing so | Apr 01 20:38 |
| MinceR | but the interface would (at least in the beginning) be embedded into a webpage | Apr 01 20:38 |
| ToreadorVampire | Except, it wouldn’t work on a large proportion of the machines that are currently running IE6 | Apr 01 20:39 |
| amd-linux | anyway – the enemy of my enemy is my friend | Apr 01 20:39 |
| Balrog | won’t work if you’re not administrator | Apr 01 20:39 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | ToreadorVampire: I thought most machines ecspecially in education upgraded to IE7 by now | Apr 01 20:39 |
| ToreadorVampire | Since a huge block of the machines on IE6 are corporate network machines that are not running in admin mode | Apr 01 20:39 |
| MinceR | it could invoke the run as administrator dialog just like everything else can :> | Apr 01 20:39 |
| Balrog | //most/ did, not all | Apr 01 20:39 |
| Balrog | MinceR: not in XP | Apr 01 20:39 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | ToreadorVampire: wasn’t M$ very keen on keep systems up to date to prevent worms and botnets spreading? | Apr 01 20:39 |
| ToreadorVampire | Carl_Rover2k12> Nah – I haven’t checked recently, but IE6′s market share is “still too high to drop support” | Apr 01 20:40 |
| MinceR | on vista it could even work around UAC but i doubt that’s a good idea :> | Apr 01 20:40 |
| Balrog | also there’s windows 2000. Many still use it | Apr 01 20:40 |
| Balrog | the newest IE for it is 6 | Apr 01 20:40 |
| ToreadorVampire | Carl_Rover2k12> Actually … much of the reason that IE6 is still found on corporate networks is IE6′s own fault | Apr 01 20:40 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | Balrog: true, but you can still upgrade to IE7 with that OS | Apr 01 20:40 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | ToreadorVampire: IE6′s own fault? | Apr 01 20:41 |
| ToreadorVampire | Programmers who have been contracted in to build bespoke intranet applications for companies have created them for IE6 (with all of its quirks and such) | Apr 01 20:41 |
| MinceR | both plugins and RadioActiveX can write to disk, can they not? | Apr 01 20:41 |
| MinceR | though i’m not sure if they can launch programs from disk… | Apr 01 20:41 |
| Balrog | Carl_Rover2k12: URL? | Apr 01 20:41 |
| ToreadorVampire | Assuming that writing “non-standards-compliant” HTML/JavaScript/CSS is the right thing to do (it works in IE6) | Apr 01 20:41 |
| ToreadorVampire | And then the company tries upgrading to IE7 | Apr 01 20:42 |
| ToreadorVampire | And boom | Apr 01 20:42 |
| ToreadorVampire | The “improves standards support” in IE7 blows their bespoke app up, that they invested thousands of pounds in | Apr 01 20:42 |
| ToreadorVampire | Well, pounds/dollars/currency | Apr 01 20:42 |
| zer0c00l | gn | Apr 01 20:43 |
| *zer0c00l has quit (“bed”) | Apr 01 20:43 | |
| ToreadorVampire | So they stick with IE6, because they don’t want to spend a stack more money having something (that worked perfectly fine before) re-written to work on “the browser of the time” | Apr 01 20:43 |
| schestowitz | IE8 was released with very scarce coverage | Apr 01 20:43 |
| schestowitz | It was poorly received | Apr 01 20:43 |
| MinceR | lol, “perfectly fine”, he says | Apr 01 20:43 |
| ToreadorVampire | The problem is IE6′s fault … it didn’t support “the real standards”, but because it was around for so damn long, it became “the standard” | Apr 01 20:43 |
| Balrog | yes.  |
Apr 01 20:44 |
| schestowitz | O’Reilly Radar definitely became a junkyard. I’m trashing it. | Apr 01 20:45 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | ToreadorVampire: well until now at least, I guess education and government PCs is its last bastion | Apr 01 20:45 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | and other kiosks | Apr 01 20:45 |
| Balrog | and windows 2000 systems | Apr 01 20:45 |
| ToreadorVampire | Well, remember, a middle manager doesn’t give a shit about *why* it doesn’t work … it’s down to the bottom line cost of “changing the application” versus “freezing Internet Explorer” | Apr 01 20:45 |
| Balrog | Carl_Rover2k12: I still don’t see any info about installing IE7 on Win2K | Apr 01 20:46 |
| ToreadorVampire | Middle managers don’t care about web standards – they probably don’t even know what they are | Apr 01 20:46 |
| ToreadorVampire | Also – dunno if you guys already saw it – http://www.saveie6.com/ | Apr 01 20:46 |
| ToreadorVampire | (maybe that’s where this conversation came from, I came in late) | Apr 01 20:46 |
| Balrog | heh: “You have been mislead by a vocal minority and are using safari, which is clearly an inferior web browser to IE6. Please switch to IE6 and sign our petition.” | Apr 01 20:46 |
| Balrog | it’s impossible on this platform :/ | Apr 01 20:47 |
| Balrog | LOL | Apr 01 20:47 |
| ToreadorVampire | Bah | Apr 01 20:47 |
| Balrog | I wonder what it says in firefox/linux | Apr 01 20:47 |
| ToreadorVampire | VirtualBox | Apr 01 20:47 |
| Balrog | you think I want to do that??!?? | Apr 01 20:47 |
| ToreadorVampire | Oh? On FF3/Linux it reads: | Apr 01 20:47 |
| ToreadorVampire | You have been mislead by a vocal minority and are using firefox, which is clearly an inferior web browser to IE6. | Apr 01 20:47 |
| ToreadorVampire | Balrog> Well, it IS a joke site |
Apr 01 20:47 |
| Balrog | I see. | Apr 01 20:47 |
| amd-linux | Old news in this context (well from yesterday) but it really satifies me: http://arstechnica.com/open-sour… | Apr 01 20:48 |
| ToreadorVampire | But – just because I wondered, I did fire up a VBox instance and looked at it in IE6 | Apr 01 20:48 |
| Balrog | “Steve B. Bangal, Inventor of spaghetti code” | Apr 01 20:48 |
| Balrog | |
Apr 01 20:48 |
| ToreadorVampire | And it said something along the lines of “hurrah you’re using the best browser evar” | Apr 01 20:48 |
| amd-linux | http://www.saveie6.com/ – coded in PHP |
Apr 01 20:49 |
| Balrog | lol | Apr 01 20:50 |
| amd-linux | april joke, no? | Apr 01 20:50 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | amd-linux: well the United States of Uhmerica ain’t a bunch of Euro Frenchies are we. We will continue to gobble down burgers while using our All Uhmerican Microsoft products programmed by Indians and Asians | Apr 01 20:50 |
| MinceR | it doesn’t have linux binaries :/ | Apr 01 20:50 |
| ToreadorVampire | amd-linux> Well duh :p | Apr 01 20:50 |
| Balrog | did you guys see http://cadiesingularity.blogspot.com/ ? | Apr 01 20:50 |
| ToreadorVampire | Heh – click the “download IE6″ link on that page | Apr 01 20:50 |
| amd-linux | Carl, lol |
Apr 01 20:50 |
| ToreadorVampire | So far I’m at the 11th step of questioning me about my system |
Apr 01 20:51 |
| ToreadorVampire | Are you working for a newspaper in Norway? | Apr 01 20:51 |
| ToreadorVampire | Yes | Apr 01 20:51 |
| ToreadorVampire | Yes, but I swear that I had nothing to do with the anti-IE6 campaign! | Apr 01 20:51 |
| ToreadorVampire | No | Apr 01 20:51 |
| *MinceR is proud to live in the Anarchical Separatists of Unamerica ( http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wi… ) | Apr 01 20:51 | |
| amd-linux | MUHARHAR: You have been mislead by a vocal minority and are using firefox, which is clearly an inferior web browser to IE6. Please switch to IE6 and sign our petition. | Apr 01 20:51 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | ToreadorVampire: should I be using a proxy when answering the IE6 questionaire? | Apr 01 20:51 |
| ToreadorVampire | Carl_Rover2k12> Erm, I see no reason why it would matter | Apr 01 20:51 |
| amd-linux | from http://www.saveie6.com | Apr 01 20:51 |
| *ToreadorVampire shrugs | Apr 01 20:51 | |
| amd-linux | also very good: IE6 has been the victim of false and misleading accusations all over the web, such as complaints about its compatibility with web standards. This is simply the confused ramblings of a vocal minority. After all, how can IE6 be violating standards when it has essentially BEEN the standard for years? | Apr 01 20:52 |
| amd-linux | lol |
Apr 01 20:52 |
| Balrog | lol | Apr 01 20:52 |
| ToreadorVampire | And yeah, I saw the google AI thing … it wasn’t that funny IMO | Apr 01 20:53 |
| ToreadorVampire | I did chuckle briefly at the page that took the piss out of myspace | Apr 01 20:53 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | ToreadorVampire: dammit whats the right way to answer |
Apr 01 20:53 |
| ToreadorVampire | Carl_Rover2k12> I dunno | Apr 01 20:54 |
| *amd-linux has quit (“http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client”) | Apr 01 20:54 | |
| ToreadorVampire | I just tried twice and got nowhere | Apr 01 20:54 |
| ToreadorVampire | I have a feeling that there is no right answer | Apr 01 20:54 |
| ToreadorVampire | But then I only tried twice, then got bored and gave up | Apr 01 20:54 |
| MinceR | i tried once and got bored | Apr 01 20:54 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | tried twice | Apr 01 20:55 |
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| Carl_Rover2k12 | this chat quickly lost steam | Apr 01 21:00 |
| *ToreadorVampire tightens the valves | Apr 01 21:00 | |
| ToreadorVampire | Actually, I was distracted by my playlist | Apr 01 21:00 |
| ToreadorVampire | F&W: You Will Understand came on, and I had to dance around the room |
Apr 01 21:01 |
| schestowitz | http://www.prwatch.org/node/8276 “The Nuclear Energy Institute (NEI) and Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA) have more in common than being major industry lobby groups. Both have hired former Greenpeace activist turned PR consultant Patrick Moore to deflect environmental and public health criticisms.” | Apr 01 21:04 |
| schestowitz | http://www.prwatch.org/node/8309 (Airline and Online Lobbying on U.S. “Card Check” Bill) Nice to know companies still pay to corrupt the systems | Apr 01 21:05 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: and to think Greenpeace got a nuclear plant closed down in the Netherlands | Apr 01 21:05 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: step one to diminish workers’ rights in our time, vilify unions via Auto Industry example | Apr 01 21:06 |
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| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: then quietly slip clauses against collective bargaining or seeking legal reprisentation against on the job acidents through state legislated bills that give the “choice” to workers on whether to join a union | Apr 01 21:08 |
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| schestowitz | Unions are long dead | Apr 01 21:09 |
| schestowitz | They are too democratising | Apr 01 21:09 |
| schestowitz | The biggest rival to a nation is an informed public. It’s usually just treated like foreign enemy, but using different methods. | Apr 01 21:10 |
| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: I am well aware that the UAW and other large union lobbying groups are nothing more then honeypots for their execs while “negotiating” deals to help get corporations tax writeoffs | Apr 01 21:10 |
| schestowitz | That’s how it goes.. | Apr 01 21:10 |
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| Carl_Rover2k12 | @schestowitz: yep, it still didn’t help and even contributed to driving GM into the ground and now execs have an excuse to end their love affair with certain unions while vilifying all | Apr 01 21:13 |
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| jose | hey, schestowitz | Apr 01 21:13 |
| schestowitz | Hey | Apr 01 21:13 |
| jose | if possible today as you have time, i want to get busy testing out some things on the database | Apr 01 21:13 |
| schestowitz | which DB? | Apr 01 21:14 |
| jose | first thing: anything that is sensitive (and hopefully there will be nothing) we can communicate over email. | Apr 01 21:14 |
| jose | the db for BN | Apr 01 21:14 |
| jose | i’ll explain | Apr 01 21:14 |
| jose | i’d like to try and see if we can manipulate BN’s data however you see fit | Apr 01 21:15 |
| schestowitz | SGI is worthless — just $25. http://www.pcworld.com/article/… (Rackable Buying SGI for $25 Million) | Apr 01 21:15 |
| jose | second thing: we must (IMO) proceed with caution | Apr 01 21:15 |
| schestowitz | WHat can possibly be sensitive? | Apr 01 21:15 |
| jose | until you are very comfortable with a routine and the update scripts, everything should be done on a separate database | Apr 01 21:15 |
| jose | let’s say I asked about password.. well, don’t tell me | Apr 01 21:16 |
| jose | i’m just thinking of ground rules | Apr 01 21:16 |
| jose | not sure where everything will lead | Apr 01 21:16 |
| schestowitz | The CMS database? | Apr 01 21:16 |
| schestowitz | Or Wiki? | Apr 01 21:17 |
| jose | Let me describe a plan and tell me what you think about it | Apr 01 21:17 |
| schestowitz | We could use improvements there. | Apr 01 21:17 |
| jose | the db that holds the comments | Apr 01 21:17 |
| jose | btw, i have no clue how much you know. i will not assume too much but stop my rambling whenever you think i am wasting time | Apr 01 21:17 |
| jose | plan: | Apr 01 21:18 |
| jose | use the “mysql” utility/command running on the web host.. ok, do you have access to that command? | Apr 01 21:18 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Apr 01 21:18 |
| jose | eg, from a remote shell session? | Apr 01 21:18 |
| jose | good | Apr 01 21:18 |
| schestowitz | Not remotely | Apr 01 21:18 |
| schestowitz | Web-bsed | Apr 01 21:19 |
| jose | ok | Apr 01 21:19 |
| jose | hmmm | Apr 01 21:19 |
| schestowitz | But I don’t understand what for | Apr 01 21:19 |
| jose | how would you query the database and look over the resultset | Apr 01 21:19 |
| jose | ? | Apr 01 21:19 |
| schestowitz | I mean, what you’re suggesting | Apr 01 21:19 |
| jose | alright, let me continue with the plan theory: | Apr 01 21:19 |
| jose | we copy a little chunk of the comments (query db) and move it over to a new database (to be safe) | Apr 01 21:20 |
| jose | we run a substitute/replace script on the queried results | Apr 01 21:20 |
| jose | we probably will have this in the form were we can do an update on the new test db | Apr 01 21:20 |
| jose | then you inspect the results. if you like, we do the update on the main db | Apr 01 21:21 |
| jose | we start in very small chunks of course | Apr 01 21:21 |
| jose | you also then inspect the main db.. eg, by downloading a webpage with those comments | Apr 01 21:21 |
| schestowitz | We could | Apr 01 21:21 |
| schestowitz | But to see what exactly? | Apr 01 21:22 |
| jose | if everything works, we repeat, but perhaps using a larger chunk and eventually not even using the test db step | Apr 01 21:22 |
| schestowitz | I could already use copies of the DB | Apr 01 21:22 |
| jose | well, to make sure that a substitution/replacement worked | Apr 01 21:22 |
| jose | copies of the db are fine.. easier.. just be careful | Apr 01 21:22 |
| schestowitz | To rewrite posts | Apr 01 21:22 |
| schestowitz | ? | Apr 01 21:22 |
| jose | to rewrite reader or whatever comments, eg, to add links to wikipedia | Apr 01 21:23 |
| jose | we can do any kind of processing but that was what you mentioned on the BN thread recently | Apr 01 21:23 |
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| jose | I know about numerous things, but have very limited experience | Apr 01 21:23 |
| jose | what we can do is i pass along everything to you and you execute at your discretion.. i just want to be safe | Apr 01 21:24 |
| schestowitz | I can do this just to new posts too | Apr 01 21:24 |
| jose | any manipulation should be possible | Apr 01 21:24 |
| schestowitz | Without messing with older ones that I can’t inspects manually. | Apr 01 21:24 |
| jose | once we do a few things, we should have the hang of it | Apr 01 21:24 |
| schestowitz | I saw some plugin in Bob Sutor’s blog | Apr 01 21:24 |
| schestowitz | If you write Ubuntu in the comments it’s turned to a link | Apr 01 21:24 |
| schestowitz | So there might be some software out there which achieves this, but he uses Drupal now | Apr 01 21:25 |
| jose | ok, well, if you decide you want me to help, let me know. I wanted to be very cautious to encourage you to take risks.. yes, a plugin if it exists for waht you want would be better | Apr 01 21:25 |
| schestowitz | Do you know such a plugin? | Apr 01 21:25 |
| schestowitz | OR script? | Apr 01 21:25 |
| jose | if you can’t find, i think we can manage a little shell/bash processing to get everything done | Apr 01 21:25 |
| jose | no plugin, but i think we can manage the “script” | Apr 01 21:26 |
| schestowitz | To run on some text file and output it with <a href=”Wikipedia/…”> where suitab;e? | Apr 01 21:26 |
| jose | i know of none | Apr 01 21:26 |
| jose | right | Apr 01 21:26 |
| jose | i started by looking at the online source code for wordpress | Apr 01 21:26 |
| jose | there is a hyperlinked duplicate here http://phpxref.com/xref… | Apr 01 21:26 |
| jose | the key files seem to be http://phpxref.com/xref/wordp… and http://phpxref.com/xref/wordpr… | Apr 01 21:27 |
| schestowitz | http://linuxshellaccount.blogspot.com… | Apr 01 21:27 |
| schestowitz | Conficker demystified < http://www.heise.de/english/newst… > | Apr 01 21:27 |
| jose | there are other important files. I’m guessing we can get by mostly on what is there though i look wherever i am lead | Apr 01 21:27 |
| jose | anyway, i then looked at the mysql docs | Apr 01 21:28 |
| jose | http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.1… | Apr 01 21:28 |
| jose | we should be able to use mysql command to grab a chunk of the comments out | Apr 01 21:28 |
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| jose | we process those text files (eg, with a small perl script) | Apr 01 21:29 |
| jose | the goal is that the result of that processing would be ready for update into the db again | Apr 01 21:29 |
| jose | done | Apr 01 21:29 |
| jose | but we should work in small steps | Apr 01 21:29 |
| jose | and use a test db | Apr 01 21:29 |
| jose | and inspect | Apr 01 21:29 |
| jose | until you are comfortable | Apr 01 21:29 |
| schestowitz | TurnKey Linux to relaunch as TurnKey Windows < http://www.turnkeylinux.org/news/… > Joke…. | Apr 01 21:30 |
| schestowitz | jose: I don’t want to process the DB out of the associated program | Apr 01 21:31 |
| schestowitz | Just for new posts I need a tool. | Apr 01 21:31 |
| schestowitz | Corny one… Open Source Casino To Fund Open Source Development < http://www.linuxfund.org/casino/ >, but well intended. | Apr 01 21:32 |
| jose | ok, then i’ll drop it… this is why i wanted you to do everything on a test db and proceed slowly. anyway, no prob here. less work for me now. I’ll have plenty of ops to do this kind of stuff later on. | Apr 01 21:33 |
| jose | so i’ll drop the topic, but let me know if you change your mind.. i might leave irc soon, btw. i came on to talk about this topic only. | Apr 01 21:33 |
| schestowitz | Thanks a lot though | Apr 01 21:34 |
| jose | sure. | Apr 01 21:35 |
| jose | later.. | Apr 01 21:35 |
| jose | ie, gn | Apr 01 21:35 |
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| jose | i’m back | Apr 01 21:36 |
| jose | forgot to mention one thing | Apr 01 21:36 |
| jose | the procedure described of updating can be done with a php script | Apr 01 21:36 |
| jose | i think that is less flexible, but you should be able to do it within wordpress | Apr 01 21:36 |
| schestowitz | No, not PHP | Apr 01 21:36 |
| jose | i suppose, short of finding such a script, it would be for you to write it | Apr 01 21:36 |
| schestowitz | The issue is, I don’t want to stress the server | Apr 01 21:36 |
| schestowitz | So it’s better off done off-line | Apr 01 21:36 |
| jose | wordpress is build using php | Apr 01 21:37 |
| schestowitz | BN does about 7GB /day now | Apr 01 21:37 |
| jose | anyway | Apr 01 21:37 |
| jose | yes i thought about that | Apr 01 21:37 |
| jose | that is why you query a small chunk | Apr 01 21:37 |
| jose | you do small chunks at a time | Apr 01 21:37 |
| jose | manually | Apr 01 21:37 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Apr 01 21:37 |
| jose | anyway, from within wordpress would involve php coding | Apr 01 21:37 |
| jose | you’d have to look closer at the plugin or hook architecture of wordpress | Apr 01 21:38 |
| jose | eg, maybe look at a plugin you already use | Apr 01 21:38 |
| jose | it would be written in php i would think | Apr 01 21:38 |
| jose | you would want to do likewise.. that’s my best guess without reading more or experimenting | Apr 01 21:38 |
| jose | one last thing.. to return to the mysql command part | Apr 01 21:39 |
| jose | i was thinking of doing minimal processing on the server | Apr 01 21:40 |
| schestowitz | http://www.schneier.com/blog/archiv… (Fourth Annual Movie-Plot Threat Contest) | Apr 01 21:40 |
| jose | get mysql data in text file.. download.. process at your leisure. and them upload | Apr 01 21:40 |
| jose | however | Apr 01 21:40 |
| jose | that might be worse in terms of taxing the db.. | Apr 01 21:40 |
| jose | it depends on how painful the scan/substitute processing becomes | Apr 01 21:40 |
| jose | vs downloading and uploading | Apr 01 21:41 |
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| jose | anyway. | Apr 01 21:41 |
| schestowitz | Why overcomplicate it? | Apr 01 21:41 |
| jose | you said you wanted something within wordpress so… | Apr 01 21:41 |
| jose | yes, that would be more complicated but the idea was to relieve server load | Apr 01 21:41 |
| jose | but, if you are willing to do small pieces for a long time | Apr 01 21:41 |
| jose | you should be fine | Apr 01 21:41 |
| jose | and maybe not even “long” time, btw | Apr 01 21:42 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft Kills Off Two Products Bill Gates Thought Would Be Enhanced By The Internet < http://techdirt.com/articles/200… > | Apr 01 21:42 |
| schestowitz | jose: nothing to do with WordPress/DB | Apr 01 21:42 |
| schestowitz | Just any text | Apr 01 21:42 |
| schestowitz | Maybe SourceForge has something | Apr 01 21:42 |
| jose | yeah, but to get “text” you have to get it out of mysql first | Apr 01 21:43 |
| schestowitz | I actually thought about this enhancement while at the gym because we don’t have enough external links, so it looks poorer | Apr 01 21:43 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz is a leader provider in Internet Solutions, including Web Hosting, Domain Names selling and so on, for all information, visit : http://www.schestowitz.corp | Apr 01 21:43 |
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| jose | or write a mysql script program if that exists. | Apr 01 21:43 |
| schestowitz | new.corp | Apr 01 21:43 |
| schestowitz | Best news channel: news.corp | Apr 01 21:43 |
| schestowitz | Insanely logical | Apr 01 21:43 |
| schestowitz | Insane logic | Apr 01 21:43 |
| jose | i hadn’t even thought about it, but yes, you are focused on the main posting that you do.. not reader comments.. anyway, same thing.. except that would take less time to do. | Apr 01 21:44 |
| schestowitz | 10,000 In-Flight Cell Calls In Europe: No Crashes, No Terrorist Attacks < http://techdirt.com/articles/200… > | Apr 01 21:44 |
| schestowitz | jose: can’t mess with people’s comments | Apr 01 21:45 |
| schestowitz | Not even links | Apr 01 21:45 |
| schestowitz | That’s what happened in Sutor’s blog | Apr 01 21:45 |
| schestowitz | It’s like it intervenes with what you post | Apr 01 21:45 |
| jose | well, you already do auto linking, but you are correct yes | Apr 01 21:45 |
| schestowitz | A link on the word “mono” can mistakenly take you to a page about Mononucleosis | Apr 01 21:46 |
| jose | i was focused on the solution approach not the “details” | Apr 01 21:46 |
| jose | |
Apr 01 21:46 |
| jose | no, if that happens | Apr 01 21:46 |
| jose | that would be a problem whether it is your posting or a reader comment | Apr 01 21:46 |
| schestowitz | Or you write “Jave will beat Mono” | Apr 01 21:46 |
| jose | so that is a different issues | Apr 01 21:46 |
| jose | issue | Apr 01 21:46 |
| schestowitz | And then it links to a page about beating the monkey | Apr 01 21:46 |
| _Hicham_ | Java will beat Mono | Apr 01 21:47 |
| jose | anyway, you are correct that we are only focused on your comments.. my bad | Apr 01 21:47 |
| _Hicham_ | and schestowitz will beat Ballmer | Apr 01 21:47 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: it was a joke pretty much | Apr 01 21:47 |
| schestowitz | Java spanks monkey | Apr 01 21:47 |
| _Hicham_ | interesting combat | Apr 01 21:47 |
| schestowitz | Ballmer is old and crazy | Apr 01 21:47 |
| _Hicham_ | Schestowitz VS Ballmer | Apr 01 21:47 |
| schestowitz | But he plays dirty | Apr 01 21:47 |
| _Hicham_ | that would drain a lot of money | Apr 01 21:47 |
| schestowitz | I’d beat him easily | Apr 01 21:48 |
| _Hicham_ | I know Roy | Apr 01 21:48 |
| _Hicham_ | u r a real warrior | Apr 01 21:48 |
