EditorsAbout the SiteComes vs. MicrosoftUsing This Web SiteSite ArchivesCredibility IndexOOXMLOpenDocumentPatentsNovellNews DigestSite NewsRSS

06.19.09

Poll: 72% Say No to Mono in GNU/Linux (and Other Mono News)

Posted in Mono, Novell, Patents, Red Hat, Ubuntu at 4:00 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Solang
Solang photo manager requires no Mono

Summary: Mono poll (monopol) and news about the subject

TUX Machines, which is an excellent GNU/Linux news site, has just conducted a little survey and the results — however inaccurate they may be — indicate that the large majority or respondents is not in favour of putting Mono in GNU/Linux. In fact, 72% say “no” to Mono. The latest episode of Linux Outlaws deals with this subject too. Skip to 13mins for a short debate on Mono & Fedora. A lot more starts around 49mins. LinuxToday readers too are quite clearly annoyed by inclusions of Mono by default. Tony Manco points out that Ubuntu even considers leaving the GIMP out due to space constraints while totally ignoring heaps of space which Mono and Mono-based applications consume. See this page for proof:

The GIMP

* rickspencer3 proposes pulling the gimp from the CD:
o It takes up a lot of space that we need for couchdb, etc…
o F-Spot has key features, like crop and red-eye removal
o It’s a power user tool, users shouldn’t stumble into it
* Discussion points brought up that
o The gimp currently uses 26 megs of space, 20 of which are documentation, which could be moved online
o The gimp, though not totally user friendly, is very useful, and does not require “importing” to edit
* The current plan of record is:
o Keep the gimp in the default install
o If we need the room, switch the gimp to online only documentation
o If we still need the room, kick it out altogether

Over in Launchpad, there is an itemised list attached to mononono and a new entry highlights the fact that the Mono patent covenant is considered discriminatory. It’s only good for Novell.

The patent covenant is probably to be considered discriminatory in reference to other programs.

What follow apparently means that use of covered technologies, such as Mono is to be considered unsafe (for covenant purposes) for developing parts of the software cited below.

read the patent covenant:
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/…

Martin Kaba, a Free software advocate, recommends replacing Tomboy with GNote.

Here is where Gnote practically steps in. Gnote is a port of Tomboy to C++. No Mono, No Novell.

Even the press wrote about the subject, reminding readers that Fedora is already distancing itself from Mono and replacing Tomboy with Gnote.

Fedora feels it’s something to worry about, and that’s why there are plans on the table to exclude Mono from Fedora 12 — in part due to the fact that applications that would nominally require Mono are being swapped for others that don’t. A big part of it is unease about the licensing, but no small amount of unease comes from the fact that .NET itself is a Microsoft creation.

[...]

Should Fedora exclude Mono from Fedora? Sure, why not? It’s their distribution; they’re free to include or exclude whatever they like from it. There’s nothing stopping anyone from adding it on after the fact, or creating a whole derivative distribution that adds Mono back in.

When Tomboy is no longer part of the default ‘package’ or distribution (people are free to install whatever they wish afterwards), then at least in Ubuntu there is fspot to worry about. Three readers have just recommended a new replacement for fspot as well. Check out Solang, which makes a lot of headlines at the moment.

It currently runs on a up-to-date Fedora 10+ installation and Debian Sid (with Gdl patch applied).

Here is a better introduction and installation guidance for Ubuntu users. There is no lack of powerful libre applications that are independent from Novell’s Mono.

Share this post: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Digg
  • del.icio.us
  • Reddit
  • co.mments
  • DZone
  • email
  • Google Bookmarks
  • LinkedIn
  • NewsVine
  • Print
  • Technorati
  • TwitThis
  • Facebook

If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.

Pages that cross-reference this one

34 Comments

  1. the11thplague said,

    June 19, 2009 at 7:40 am

    Gravatar

    Ok, may I say it ? F-spot SUCKS !
    Well, as almost all the Gnome photo viewer (gthumb makes no exception)

    Really, Gnome lacking some of the most BASIC programs that a common user needs. Some example ?
    F-spot still doesn’t animate gifs
    Network manager sucks. Until Ubuntu 9.04 it was unable to even keep an assigned IP.
    there is no such thing as Paint (tuxpaint is not installed by default and cannot handles only fixed size images)
    Yes, I like The GIMP, but I DO NOT like explaining my friends how to cut out a piece of photo.

    So…The OS with the best kernel of the world won’t let you do the most common tasks. WTF ?!

    Tip: if you need more space in your CD, strip Evoultion out, noone uses it.

    btw if you something like paint for Gnome, please tell me. I seriously need it.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    F-spot still doesn’t animate gifs

    Gwenview handles videos too.

    there is no such thing as Paint (tuxpaint is not installed by default and cannot handles only fixed size images)

    Tuxpaint is not intended for this purpose. For vector graphics, if GIMP is not something people are used to (not the same as being “difficult”), Inkspace, Xara and Krita are worth a shot. I mean, come on. You’re not claiming GNU/Linux suffers for not having paint.exe, right?

    Yes, I like The GIMP, but I DO NOT like explaining my friends how to cut out a piece of photo.

    Is it so much easier in other programs? And if so, why? Habits acquired in schools that Adobe et al exploit for training?

    So…The OS with the best kernel of the world won’t let you do the most common tasks. WTF ?!

    What do Windows and OS X have (by default) that puts them ahead? Paint.exe? Windows Explorer (for photo management)? OS X is not much better off, either.

    the11thplague Reply:

    [quote]I mean, come on. You’re not claiming GNU/Linux suffers for not having paint.exe, right?[/quote]
    Yes, I do. It sounded stupid to me too, but actually people keep asking me, and if you search on the net, A LOT of images with writings are modified using paint. Why ? Because it’s simple. Too simple ? Maybe. but at least you don’t have to search through right click SUB-menus to to that. It’s not training, it’s just having a big button in front of me to do what I need. Anything more complex is not easy enough.
    Also, most people don’t even know what vectorial graphic is. In order to suggest such a program to my sister (for example) I should explain that too… They just don’t need vectorial programs.
    BTW I have The GIMP installed on Win too, and I use it to cut out photos, because it allows for more precision than Paint, but com’on ! I don’t think GIMP was meant to do such a stupid task, it wouldn’t take so much time to load if it was meant for things like this. Not being able to find a simple photo editor for linux is really, really puzzling me. How can it be ?

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    What you might want is Nathive.

    the11thplague Reply:

    Thanks, I’ll try it.
    btw I can’t install gwenview’s deb package on ubuntu, gdebi says some dependencies are not satisfied “Error: … kdelibs5 (>= 4:4.2.4)”. The latest version I can get through Synapric is the 4.2.2. I’ll ask on forums later…

    NotZed Reply:

    “Really, Gnome lacking some of the most BASIC programs that a common user needs. Some example ? …”

    The problem with a project like GNOME is that it’s only as strong as the people willing to contribute to it. As with many projects, people are pushed away because of politics and non-technical issues and that just hurts the entire effort. You end up with an ‘in-crowed’ ‘cabal’ who make all of the meaningful decisions, who have commercial and political interests calling the shots. This is never very healthy.

    I must say however, that after having recently tried KDE … GNOME is still the only valid choice for any ‘desktop’ . Although personally I simply use a simple window manager with a manually configurable menu, and an xterm to run everything (else) I (ever) need. KDE is really … (surprisingly) awful. It’s worse than Microsoft Windows XP.

    Although I no longer have (or wish) anything to do with it, I am a little sad that Evolution is no longer considered a valid email program by some people. I spent 6 years of my life ‘that i’ll never get back’ trying in vain to make it a competent and useful product, and in as much as possible (without getting fired, although i came close a few times) attempting to focus on performance and reliability over features or anything else. I was never happy that it was turned from being a ‘good email programme’ to being merely ‘a clone of microsoft outlook’ – you should’ve seen some of the code we had to dump because cloning outlook’s way of doing things was just rubbish. Unfortunately the ‘boss’ made the final decisions in the end, and we were too busy on top of that simply working around bugs in other (server) software to `go to the next leve’l (amongst other issues). Still, when I left it, it still did some stuff better than any desktop client i’ve ever encountered did (before, that is – i’ve only used an online service since), But I haven’t used it once since, and have heard some things haven’t been changed for the better. Anyway, I’m still pretty confident there is some following for it, and i’m pretty certain there are few if any alternatives in the same sphere even now.

    PS ‘eet’ … you’re awesome, I haven’t laughed so hard in ages. Who ever said you Germans didn’t have such a great sense of humour was sadly mistaken!

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    Thunderbird with extensions is a wonderful client.

    max stirner Reply:

    +1

    the11thplague Reply:

    Sorry, I didn’t meant to say it was a bad program. It’s just that most people use web interfaces these days.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    Photoshop is going (partly) Web based. Google, I believe, has something similar.

  2. eet said,

    June 19, 2009 at 8:25 am

    Gravatar

    A survey with such an ill-defined question is worthless.

    Mono will never get into Linux because Linux is the kernel, you dumbos! :p

  3. Needs Sunlight said,

    June 19, 2009 at 8:51 am

    Gravatar

    Part of it is Mono sucking. It’s not just a matter of sqashing M$ fake FOSS. It’s also a matter of restoring the quality and letting packages rise or fall based on technical merits, not how many shills any given company can hire or insert into the distro to advance inferior tools.

    eet Reply:

    No mono application without big demand from the user-side would stand a chance of becoming defaulted with a distro. You really think that Ubuntu’s thinking about switching to Banshee just because of some ‘shills’, a conspiracy to push Banshee down Mark Shuttleworth’s throat?

    In that case, you are beyond help.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    “The truth finally comes out!

    “Brian Goldfarb of Microsoft said in part: “it is not limited just to Novell as Mono is.”

    “This tells us everything. It says quite clearly that Microsoft does see Mono as infringing their patents and that the covenant between MS and Novell gives Novell’s users exclusive protection for using Mono specifically.

    “Now what we have long known is clear to see for everyone.

    “Mono is a potential MS target and after 4 years not even Novell or their users are immune.

    “Now who can question the wisdom of steering clear of all things Miguel/Novell?”

    http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-10535-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=47762&messageID=890012

    eet Reply:

    WHERE does a Mr Goldfarb say that? There is no source for the quote…

    WHO is Mr Goldfarb and what does he do of Microsoft? I never heard of him.

    HOW does what you link relate? It’s just an odd comment to a derogatory article by the notorious hater Ms. Blankenzorn. And Ms B. doesn’t mention a Mr Goldfarb…

    So, this is pure fantasy. And even if it wasn’t, I don’t give a shit about what Mr Goldfarb thinks – or Microsoft, for that matter…

    eet Reply:

    …and as I just saw, Ms B noticed that herself and replied to that strange comment you’ve linked to:

    Blankenhorn:
    “Straw man argument. I never said, or implied, that the use of Moonlight was limited to Novell distributions of Linux.”

    How come you didn’t see that, Roy? Because you DON’T CARE whether a claim against Novell is true, as long as it is against Novell. Lousy (no) research, as usual…

    You are quoting shit, as always.

  4. saulgoode said,

    June 19, 2009 at 11:28 am

    Gravatar

    WHERE does a Mr Goldfarb say that? There is no source for the quote…

    http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-10535-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=47762&messageID=889966

    eet Reply:

    A COMMENTER to an article who just signed ‘Brian Goldfarb (Microsoft)?!?

    Well, now serious, he’ll have to be an important man! (Not some troll who is trying to make himself interesting and stirr things up a bit).

    Oh, boy! You are naive…

  5. saulgoode said,

    June 19, 2009 at 1:29 pm

    Gravatar

    You claimed there was “no source” for the quote. I was merely pointing out that there was one. You may ascribed whatever level of legitimacy you wish to the source; still your statement was erroneous and invited correction.

    eet Reply:

    Ah – sorry, I meant Roy must be naive to attribute any importance to that source. I should have been more clear.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    Goldfarb is one of their main men in this area. The quote is very revealing.

  6. John Hunt said,

    June 21, 2009 at 6:44 pm

    Gravatar

    Is this FUD blog or something? Nobody is going to replace the gimp with f-spot, they’re entirely different programs (lightroom/photoshop.)

    Mono has improved the linux desktop by allowing more programmers to write programs for linux. Nevermind if f-spot is any good etc..

    By removing mono, choice is being removed. If you don’t like mono, just un-install it or use a different distribution. Choice is what makes linux great. Don’t remove it.

    Oh, and also, Banshee fucking rules and beats all other music players on Linux.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    You have ignored the two most important issues — that Mono helps Microsoft and also poses a patent threat.

    Honest Injin Reply:

    Ok, what has Banshee that isn’t in Amarok?

    (I know Gnome/KDE, but ya did say "beats all other music players on Linux."

    (asking honestly, maybe you can convert me… ;^ )

  7. lachlan said,

    June 21, 2009 at 7:51 pm

    Gravatar

    gpaint is pretty much the same as mspaint.

    Shane Coyle Reply:

    As is KolourPaint, except for alot more functionality than I recall in mspaint, like more formats than just bmp, image effects like emboss and such, but then again I haven’t touched winders since early 2000′s, so maybe paint.exe got more advanced?

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    Wine was created specifically to run ‘killer apps’ like paint.exe. :-)

    Shane Coyle Reply:

    OK, is it me, or when you click on a comment in recent comments on the stories page, do you end up at the ‘top’ of the comments, instead of the actual comment itself (annoying because nested comments means that bottom comment does not necessarily mean latest comment)?

    ((FF 3.0.11, Slax 6.1.1 heavily hacked))

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    Indeed. There is something dodgy about the new IRC applet, which steals focus. Freenode is blocking access from mibbit.

    Is there a hack for avoiding this (it’s an iframe)?

    Shane Coyle Reply:

    OK, I see that. If you right-click, and open in new tab, it seems to go to comment, not sure if this is the fault of firefox or wordpress, gonna try with opera and konqueror, let’s see…

    Konq 4.2.4 works as expected, right to the comment, as does Opera 9.64 (my same Slax-6.1.1 based KDE4 computer).

    Anyone else experiencing this on Firefox? Could you list version as well (specifically, anyone using 3.5???)

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    We may also have a slow scrolling issue in FF 3.5 (based on beta 2).

  8. David "Lefty" Schlesinger said,

    June 22, 2009 at 12:35 am

    Gravatar

    Same thing happens on the latest FF 3.5…

  9. Penguin Pete said,

    June 24, 2009 at 3:37 pm

    Gravatar

    There’s just one difference I see with regards to the Gimp: There’s about maybe 20 people breathing on the planet who do not have their craniums inserted up their nether passage when it comes to the Gimp. That’s the ten-member development team, me, and an estimate of a few others.

    The way Microsoft tries to shoot down Linux pales in comparison to how legions of Adobe zealots try to shoot down the Gimp. Let F-Spot take the heat for a while!

    Good, F-Spot can be the new target for all the Adobe fanaticism. And don’t forget! It must be an exact, pixel-perfect clone of Photoshop down to the logo, or else it is the greatest evil in history including the Holocaust, just like the Phtotrolls claim about Gimp now.

    Finally! People will pick on some other program and leave those of us who appreciate the Gimp as being the greatest image editing application ever made, completely perfect and needing nothing changed, to use it in peace.

    Roy Schestowitz Reply:

    If only I knew how many “Photoshop guards” are PR agents and how many are just Photoshop users defending their territory, so to speak.

What Else is New


  1. Links 24/5/2017: New RHEL Beta, SteamOS Updated

    Links for the day



  2. Great News: While IBM et al Try to Undermine Patent Reform the Supreme Court Deepens the Reform in TC Heartland Case

    In a unanimous decision, with the court ruling 8-0 against TC Heartland, the monkey business in East Texas (beneficial to patent trolls and large businesses that leverage software patents) may have just come to an end



  3. Speculations About Battistelli's End of Term, Campinos at EUIPO, and Failed UPC Ambitions

    Rumours and speculations surrounding the fate of the EPO's leadership now that the UPC gravy train is stuck again and Battistelli's protector, Jesper Kongstad, is about to leave



  4. Martijn van Dam is Wrong to Believe That Battistelli's Abuses Are Somehow Acceptable or Tolerable Because His Term is Possibly Ending

    Coverage of Martijn van Dam’s stance (he is the Dutch State Secretary for Economic Affairs) reveals that economic gain trumps ethics and justice, irrespective of what the law says



  5. Media and Staff Association Elections at EPO and WIPO Are Compromised

    A campaign of abuse (legal bullying) and gifting to the media, combined with a wide-ranging assault on critics who represent the interests of staff, have led WIPO and EPO down the route to totality



  6. New Documents Help Demonstrate That ILO Delivers Institutional Injustice to EPO Employees and Cushions Team Battistelli

    The International Labour Organisation Administrative Tribunal (ILOAT) delivers not justice but merely the illusion of justice, probably in defiance of Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR)



  7. Leaked: 2017 European Inventor Award Finalists, or Stooges Whom the Tyrant Battistelli Exploits for PR Purposes and Media Manipulation

    The stupidest ceremony in Europe (turning serious science into something sketchy such as Eurovision) is disliked among EPO staff and is exploited by the person who destroys the EPO (Benoît Battistelli) to pretend all is fine and dandy, at huge expense to the Office (as extraordinary as about 5 million Euros for a ~2-hour show)



  8. EPO: Can the Staff Union of the European Patent Office (SUEPO) Still Save It?

    Genuine concerns about the slow process at the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) and the lack of progress at ILO, which coincide with weakening of the unions and threat to jobs of patent examiners (leaving ordinary Europeans more vulnerable to meritless patent lawsuits)



  9. Links 21/5/2017: Linux 3.18.53, Tizen 4.0

    Links for the day



  10. Cloudflare's Enemy is Software Patents, Not Just One Software Patent or One Patent Troll

    With a bounty of $50,000, which is likely less than the cost of legal defense, Cloudflare looks for help with its own case rather than the underlying issues that need tackling worldwide



  11. Patent Laws -- and Especially Eligibility of Software Patents -- Are Being Hijacked by Large Corporations and Their Front Groups

    Intervention by large multinational corporations and their lawyers, front groups, etc. (like the classic lobbying model) gives room for concern in multiple continents where most software development is done



  12. Links 18/5/2017: Catching Up With the Past Three Days

    Links for the day



  13. The US Supreme Court Consults USPTO Director Michelle Lee Regarding the Patent Trial and Appeal Board (PTAB) Which is Invalidating Software Patents With CAFC's Approval

    Software patents continue to get knocked out by the Leahy-Smith America Invents Act (AIA) whose introduction of PTAB gave a helping hand to companies that are susceptible to abusive litigation (with bogus patents)



  14. IBM and Its Revolving Doors Lobby Are Plotting to Undermine Supreme Court Rulings to Restore Patentability of Software

    IBM has become so evil that it is now trying to steal democracy, label programmers "thieves", and basically attack the rule of law by extra-judicially overturning a Supreme Court decision



  15. 3 Years After the Alice Case at the Supreme Court the Plague of Software Patents is Easier to Cope With

    Litigation figures are down, rejection rates of software patents remain high, and only spin (e.g. cherry-picking) or constant lobbying can save those who used to profit from software patents



  16. The Attacks of Patent Trolls as Outlined in the Media This Past Week

    An outline of some of the latest troll cases to be aware of and their consequences too (e.g. software patents being used to literally shut down entire programs)



  17. Links 14/5/2017: Linux 4.12 RC1 and KDE Frameworks 5.34.0

    Links for the day



  18. Industry Giants Challenge Qualcomm's Patent Practices While the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) Closely Examines Such Behavior

    Scrutiny of Qualcomm's patent aggression and coercion -- scrutiny that can profoundly change the way software patents, SEPs and FRAND are viewed -- as seen in various amicus briefs (amici) from industry giants that are affected



  19. Professor Lisa Larrimore Ouellette Questions Whether Patents Work When Patent Scope is Too Broad

    Citing MIT economist (and MacArthur “genius”) Heidi Williams, Professor Lisa Larrimore Ouellette from Stanford challenges old myths and quotes: “we still have essentially no credible empirical evidence on the seemingly simple question of whether stronger patent rights—either longer patent terms or broader patent rights—encourage research investments.”



  20. OIN is Still a Distraction Unless We Want GNU/Linux to Coexist With Software Patents (Rather Than Eliminate Those)

    Another wave of media coverage by/for the Open Invention Network (OIN) necessitates a reminder of what OIN stands for and why it is not tackling the biggest problems which Free/Open Source software (FOSS) faces



  21. Links 13/5/2017: Neptune Plasma 5 ISO, a Shift to Free (FOSS) Databases

    Links for the day



  22. Countries With a Dozen European Patents Are an Easy Photo-Op 'Sell' for Battistelli While the EPO's Demise is Largely Ignored by the Patent Microcosm

    Behind the façade of legitimacy, the EPO suffers from an incompetent, insecure and delusional boss, whose actions will almost certainly lead to the collapse of both the Office and the entire Organisation (whose founding document he routinely shreds to pieces)



  23. Our Assessment: Unitary Patent (UPC) Will Crumble Along With Battistelli's Regime at the EPO

    A reflection and an opinion on where the EPO stands and what it means for the UPC, which doesn't seem to be going anywhere (it's all talk and lobbying)



  24. The European Patent Office Has a Long History/Track Record of 'Screwing' Contractors

    The European Patent Office (EPO) appears to have quite an extensive track record/reputation for ‘screwing’ contractors and then misusing immunity to get away with it



  25. Links 12/5/2017: Wine 2.8, Kdenlive 17.04.1, NHS Windows Syndrome

    Links for the day



  26. Links 11/5/2017: New OpenShot, GIMP, and GNOME (3.24.2)

    Links for the day



  27. The Sickness of the EPO – Part IX: Using Confidential Medical Records as a Weapon Against Staff

    In defiance/violation of labour laws and medical oaths etc. the EPO is passing around medical information, either for dismissal pretexts or a sort of blackmail -- a serious abuse in its own right



  28. The EPO is in Disarray and Additional Complaints to the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) May Be Imminent

    Team Battistelli reaps what it has sown, as complaints are being made to a court with “47 member states [that] are contracting parties to the Convention,” (European Convention on Human Rights) according to Wikipedia



  29. By Promoting the UPC, in Defiance of Public Will, the EPO Has Become Patent Trolls' Best Friend

    The patent–industrial complex, aided by the EPO under Battistelli's iron-fisted reign, is trying to convince us that the UPC is coming soon and that it is desirable (it's neither of those things)



  30. Links 10/5/2017: Mesa 17.1, Git 2.13, Qt Creator 4.3 RC1, MINIX 3.4 RC6

    Links for the day


CoPilotCo

RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

CoPilotCo

Recent Posts