Bonum Certa Men Certa

Manuel Estrada Sainz (ranty), Andres Garcia (ErConde) & Debian Deaths overworking

posted by Roy Schestowitz on Feb 21, 2024

People have noticed that Thiemo Seufer's death in a car accident occurred after working on Christmas Day. That was in 2008. It turns out there was a precedent for this.

Manuel Estrada Sainz (ranty) and Andres Garcia (ErConde) from Seville traveled to the city of Valencia, on the other side of Spain for the Congreso de Software Libre.

The conference ran from Thursday, 6 May to Saturday, 8 May 2004. It looks like they spent one extra day and night in the Valencia region at the home of Jesus Climent (mooch) who lives south of Valencia in Gandia.

They used Sunday night to try and drive all the way back to Seville. According to reports, they completed ninety-nine percent of the journey and then died in a car accident.

The deaths were discussed on the debian-private gossip network. Robert Millan commented that Sr Estrada had worked all night at a previous DebConf.

I found an archived copy of Sr Estrada's web site. It has a large banner on the front page, Wellcome to HELL. Coincidentally, the distance from Valencia to Seville is approximately 666km.

Manuel Estrada Sainz, ranty, Debian, Seville

Manuel Estrada Sainz, ranty, Debian, Seville

I can imagine that drive, it is a similar distance as the journey from Melbourne to Canberra.

A tribute page was created. It tells us that the site of the accident was Alcalá de Guadaira but there are no other details about how the accident came about or whether any third parties were injured. There are 347 comments on the tribute page. They tell us that Sr Estrada was a graduate of the University of Salamanca while Andres Garcia had previously been involved in activities in Malaga.

Police road safety campaigns tell us that driving without sleep makes us ten times more likely to be involved in a crash.

After the car accident, people immediately began to talk about making a tribute to Sr Estrada and Sr Garcia. Yet when Frans Pop committed suicide, people wanted to avoid a tribute. People who drive without sleep are not only a risk to themselves, they are also a risk to other drivers, cyclists, pedestrians and cats. Therefore, if they did take this risk, are they really more deserving than Frans Pop when it comes to a public tribute or dedication?

In the same year as the conference, the Valencia region committed to use free software. The desktop OS, Lliurex, is derived from Edubuntu, Ubuntu and Debian. A report claims they have saved €36 million with this strategy but the lives lost producing Debian, including those who died on the drive home, are not mentioned in the report at all.

Read more about the history and evolution of the Debian Harassment & Abuse culture

How we were informed about the casualties

Subject: A fellow DD passed away last night
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 14:09:06 +0200 (CEST)
From: jesus.daniel@hispalinux.es
To: debian-private@lists.debian.org

Dear DDs.
Last night Manuel Estrada Sainz, along with another friend, Andres Garcia, passed away in a car accident. The details of the accident itself are still unknown. I was the last person to see them alive before they left from my home town, Gandia, and the news have struck me so badly that I will be taking few days off. My mind and my heart are with both of them.
Jesus Climent aka mooch@d.o

Discussion of dedications and comparison to Chris Rutter

Subject: Re: A fellow DD passed away last night
Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 15:13:54 +0200
From: Wouter Verhelst <wouter@grep.be>
To: debian-private@lists.debian.org
CC: debian-private@lists.debian.org

On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 02:47:45PM +0200, Andreas Tille wrote: > On Wed, 12 May 2004, Jesus Climent wrote: > > > teo@d.o, and other friends: dedicate sarge to his memory and put the next > > machine which enters the project with the name of Ranty. I will be putting a > ACK, even if I would love if we would run in trouble to find further names > for our machines according this naming scheme.
This was proposed on a previous occasion, too; when Chris Rutter died, on March 1, 2001, the same proposal was made by various other people. Back then, it was decided not to do this, because Joel Klecker was viewed upon as a special case -- one whom everybody knew as being very active and very dedicated regarding Debian.
The same wasn't true about Chris Rutter; for that reason, woody wasn't dedicated to his memory, nor did we name a machine after him. Instead, his name is still on the frontpage of the log viewing system he designed, which is now available at http://buildd.debian.org/
I'm not saying we should not, in any case, do what has been proposed here; but on the other hand, we should not go like "somebody died, we should dedicate a machine and a release to him or her" -- this should be something we can all agree on, rather than an automated response. If we don't do it that way, the end result will be that we have a number of people we're trying to remember, without remembering who they were.
What was done in the case of Chris Rutter was that he was given honour in a few areas, those where he had done the most work. That is why I can now say that Chris Rutter was an ARM porter who died in a car accident, rather than the far more vague "Chris Rutter was some random Debian Developer who died a few years ago".
Wouldn't it be better to do something similar here, too?
-- EARTH smog | bricks AIR -- mud -- FIRE soda water | tequila WATER -- with thanks to fortune

Worked all night at DebConf

Subject: Re: A fellow DD passed away last night
Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 15:22:11 +0200
From: Robert Millan <zeratul2@wanadoo.es>
To: debian-private@lists.debian.org

I remember Manuel Estrada (ranty) as a very nice person. I spent the whole last night of debconf-es talking and hacking with him and other fellows. I believe I met Andres at debconf-es too, but didn't have the chance to know him further, I'm afraid.
I want to share the photos with you:
http://people.debian.org/~rmh/debconf-es/debconf-es-2%20009.jpg (with Guillem Jover and me)
http://people.debian.org/~rmh/debconf-es/debconf-es-2%20012.jpg (hacking on his laptop)
http://people.debian.org/~rmh/debconf-es/debconf-es-2%20015.jpg
So long, Manuel. I'll miss you.
-- Robert Millan
"[..] but the delight and pride of Aule is in the deed of making, and in the thing made, and neither in possession nor in his own mastery; wherefore he gives and hoards not, and is free from care, passing ever on to some new work."
-- J.R.R.T., Ainulindale (Silmarillion)

Read more about the history and evolution of the Debian Harassment & Abuse culture █

Other Recent Techrights' Posts

Microsoft's XBox CEO Asha Sharma Tells Staff That Many Thousands of Layoffs Are in Fact "Return to Growth"
Get it? Layoffs are "growth".
Gemini Links 07/10/2026: Nostalgia, Neutral Map, and Shorthanding
Links for the day
 
Microsoft Insiders on "Effectively Being Silently Laid Off From Microsoft"
People are laid off by the thousands without the media uttering a word or the companies confirming anything
Brigading Against Women - Part XXIII - Extremism in the Mix and Getting the Police Involved
In 2012 I was getting heckled a lot for opposing back doors in Linux; it has not stopped since
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Wednesday, October 07, 2026
IRC logs for Wednesday, October 07, 2026
Gemini Links 07/10/2026: On Feeling Guilty Leaving the US, Multinet, and Limiting Net Usage
Links for the day
The Cyber Show Explains the Concept of "Data Rape"
a metaphor some might find crude
FREE BEER is Still Online, But Barely Active
25 years ago or even 20 years ago many spoke of open/free beer (or "COLA")
Syria: GNU/Linux Has Surged to 8% "Market Share"
I don't have a convincing explanation for this
IBM Dimming Down the Lights on IBM Consulting, No Knowledge or Experience Required
They just "ride" the (old) brand, that's all
Statement on American SLAPP
Crossposted from schestowitz.com
Today The Register MS Published "SPONSORED FEATURE" and "SPONSORED POST" With "AI" 31 Times in Them
This isn't a "Reality" or "Era of AI", it's a paid-for spam campaign
Links 07/10/2026: Unrest in France and Rumours of Plague in Russia
Links for the day
Brigading Against Women - Part XXII - The Lozza Problem (in Length)
Garrett's case was a waste of the Court's money
JavaScript in Richard Stallman's Web Site
For search he is using CGI, not JavaScript
EPO's Local Staff Committee The Hague (LSCTH) Plans Presentation Next Week (Coinciding With Apparent Coronation of 'Cocaine King' Campinos)
They've outsourced this session to the dictator's spying eye
The GNOME Foundation's Code of Conduct Has Been Misused to Hide Corruption
People who value free speech and freedom of expression won't touch social control media with a 10-foot bargepole
Voting for Freedom of the Press
American elections happen every 4 years
What Brett Wilson LLP and Matt Garrett Don't Want People to See/Read
Book-burning is counterproductive
Book-Burning Mindset Does Not Work
It makes the suppressed voices more widely known
Microsoft's XBox in 'Freefall'
XBox is practically finished
Slop is Plagiarism
Plagiarism is not "theft" and copyright infringement is not "piracy"
IBM is Almost Defunct
IBM is doomed. It just tries to test how much more patience the shareholders have.
Criminalisation of Journalism
"Journalist Derya Okatan arrested in Turkey for allegedly possessing classified material"
Brigading Against Women - Part XXI - Hiding Behind the Veil of "Privacy" After Telling Nazi Things in IRC Channels of Techrights and Physically Threatening People
To merely explain an abuse (or crime) requires naming people; that's a fundamental tenet of reporting
Links 07/10/2026: Quitting Smartphone and "Meta's Muse Is Spying on All Your Friends and Family"
Links for the day
Gemini Links 07/10/2026: Greed, In Praise of Zotero, and The de-Google Path
Links for the day
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Tuesday, October 06, 2026
IRC logs for Tuesday, October 06, 2026
Microsoft Hiring Only on the Cheap
Much of the same can be said about GAFAM and IBM
Gemini Links 06/10/2026: Nightfall Express, Shorthanding, and Raspberry Pi Desktop Gets a Debian Trixie Refresh
Links for the day
20th Anniversary Next Month
We are currently trying to agree on a plan for next month's celebrations
Taking Photos With Richard Stallman (RMS)
What's the point?
GAFAM Attack on FreeDesktop
Now they push lots of LLM slop into Linux
EPO Union Bemoans Lack of Social Dialogue as Dictator Wishes to Govern Forever (No Elections, No Rivals), Hide the Many Issues
"Exchange of open letters"
GNU/Linux Has Risen in France Since the Order to Adopt GNU/Linux (in Public Services)
We can expect the same in countries like Denmark, Switzerland, Germany, and The Netherlands
On Microsoft Hiring Freeze or No Permanent Jobs at Microsoft Anymore (Amid Many Silent Layoffs)
Microsoft has changed what it can offer workers
IBM Cannot Hide the Layoffs Forever
we welcome whistleblower to tell us more and send us documents related to that
EPO's Central Staff Committee Asking The Council to Get Rid of Corrupt Campinos
We'll be covering EPO scandals around the time of that meeting
Gemini Links 06/10/2026: EU Kids Act, Practicality of Gemini, and Games
Links for the day
Links 06/10/2026: Data Breaches Epidemic and Turkey Blocking Journalists
Links for the day
The Whole Point of Computing is That Computers Are Deterministic (Speed With Predictable Accuracy)
Unlike stochastic parrots that stochastically utter out lies
It's Not a Linux Back Door If It's an Unpatched Device
"Linux Backdoor" is a glaring misfit, a possibly 'obscene' term
What is a Conditional Fee Agreement (CFA)? When Law Firms Become the Litigants.
And the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA) needs to be more serious about tackling this
Brigading Against Women - Part XX - Attempts by Lozza to Deplatform Techrights and Tux Machines Only Days After I Sued Garrett and My Wife Also Sued Garrett (Shortly Before the Serial Strangler From Microsoft Joined)
in 2024
Links 06/10/2026: A Year Since "NSA Whistleblower Reality Winner Released From Prison", World Tries to Deal With El Niño
Links for the day
"SIRIUS CORPORATION LIMITED" as Evidence of the Financial Shell Games in the UK
Rianne and I still have some fond memories of the time the ex-wife of the CEO treated us like human beings
Lots of Silent Layoffs at IBM Last Week, Employees Explain Patterns of Those Impacted
It wasn't just gossip, it actually happened even if the media chose to look the other way (as usual)
Gemini Links 06/10/2026: Fighting for Purpose, Gemlogs, and Gemtext
Links for the day
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Monday, October 05, 2026
IRC logs for Monday, October 05, 2026