IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 30th, 2008

Dr. Roy Schestowitz

2008-08-31 11:12:28 UTC
Modified: 2008-08-31 11:12:28 UTC

*jose (n=jose@adsl-233-171-198.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #boycottnovell		Aug 30 00:19
jose	hello....	Aug 30 00:20
jose	Is this a joke? http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/29/mono...	Aug 30 00:20
jose	schestowitz, is the blog post about tomboy a joke?	Aug 30 00:22
MinceR	while it reads like a joke, i suspect it has a base in reality	Aug 30 00:23
schestowitz	It's sarcastic in nature, but it's based on true fcts.	Aug 30 00:27
jose	I won't go into details, but I feel asleep for a few hours and it appears I awoke in the twilight zone.. btw, novell was up today 7%. The stock market is funny that way, but I do worry about ms supporting novl at redhat's expense for some time to come. the stock might be reflecting this or not at all since the rise might draw in buyers so that those holding dump some more shares	Aug 30 00:33
jose	typo: feel -> fell	Aug 30 00:33
schestowitz	jose: Novell is buying its own stock.	Aug 30 00:37
jose	hmm	Aug 30 00:37
schestowitz	The same goes for Microsoft. Their share value says too little.	Aug 30 00:37
jose	for those that have never read this nugget called microsoft financial pyramid summary (first link on page) http://billparish.wordpress.com/2...	Aug 30 00:45
schestowitz	See this one also: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0...	Aug 30 00:46
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jose	i think it was today's newspapers that had a story about some stock brokerage firm (merryllinch?) that had lost in one quarter 1/4 of the profits they had made to date since the company was founded (let me verify this)...	Aug 30 00:56
jose	.. it reminds me of how microsoft and others go back and adjust past figures over time.	Aug 30 00:57
jose	what a scam	Aug 30 00:57
jose	.. when the result is so large as it has been at times.	Aug 30 00:57
jose	watch financial reporting and "analysts", eg, use the excuse of the company beating estimates by a single penny as an excuse for the stock to rise.	Aug 30 00:58
jose	.. even when the company is reporting perhaps huge losses..	Aug 30 00:59
jose	.."oh, the market was already expecting huge losses.. so this is a positive surprise"	Aug 30 00:59
jose	my arse	Aug 30 00:59
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jose	look at this chart	Aug 30 01:00
jose	http://finance.yahoo.com/...	Aug 30 01:00
jose	see how as the stock was dropping below $6 at the beginning of this month the volume was higher than normal, in particular, the days before and during the rise showed high volume	Aug 30 01:02
schestowitz	jose: the market is a mess. Lying is the 'standard' and companies are judged by /how much/ they lie to investors	Aug 30 01:03
schestowitz	The SEC isn't doing its job properly. It failed to see what was happening to SCO almost 2 years ago and it let Microsoft be despite allegations of fraud. Novell admits cooking the books, yet the SEC let it be a year ago.	Aug 30 01:03
jose	it may not appear like much but the big money buying this stock doesn't like to choke on this garbage.. of course, i worry that novl might actually be on the up since msft is much larger and can fund this garbage	Aug 30 01:04
jose	msft can fuel huge earnings growth for scox and a bunch more companies if they had something to gain..	Aug 30 01:04
schestowitz	jose, Novell started buybacks about 2 months ago.	Aug 30 01:04
jose	the price was at low	Aug 30 01:04
schestowitz	When looking at the stock, bear in mind that Novell plays a sort of pump-n-dump with NOVL.	Aug 30 01:05
schestowitz	Microsoft was caught inside-trading, but the SEC didn't investigate, despite reports.	Aug 30 01:05
jose	i think microsoft books money that is due them (legit) but if enough time passes and they don't get paid (eg, if recession leads many account receivables to spoil), then msft has to write down all the loses	Aug 30 01:07
jose	loses -> losses	Aug 30 01:07
jose	this may already be happening to a large extent	Aug 30 01:07
jose	oh	Aug 30 01:07
jose	the us is thinking of changin away from GAP reporting to the more lenient one used worldwide	Aug 30 01:08
jose	i think this too was in today's papers	Aug 30 01:08
jose	bill parish says gap is weak as is	Aug 30 01:08
jose	and prefers the stronger one.. whose name doesn't come to mind right now	Aug 30 01:09
jose	for those that don't know, you can count as legitimate revenues today money that is owed to you today even if you don't get paid until much later (eg, your customer buys from you on credit from you)	Aug 30 01:10
jose	it's easy to fabricate money.. eg, dell can just buy a bunch of air ("licenses") from Microsoft and ms can book the earnings immediately.. later on dell has to get the money from you and me to pay back ms	Aug 30 01:12
jose	it's an open ended cycle though because people can all just keep buying on credit	Aug 30 01:13
jose	this is tied in to how credit is regulated by the us gov	Aug 30 01:13
jose	this is why it appears that every so many years there is some type of bank fraud explosion that is bailed out by tax payers..	Aug 30 01:14
jose	i am approximating this a good deal	Aug 30 01:14
jose	the point is that over time, paper money is used to make the rich richer.. even when we all make more, inflation makes most of us poorer	Aug 30 01:15
jose	once the most wealthy (who have the inside track and get favorable treatment from each other)...	Aug 30 01:15
jose	are superwealthy ..in paper money	Aug 30 01:16
jose	then it's up to them to convert that into tangibles	Aug 30 01:16
jose	like real estate, minerals, etc	Aug 30 01:16
jose	real estate, gold, ... and even us treasuries while the gov remains strong..	Aug 30 01:17
jose	maintain their relative value no matter what inflation is like	Aug 30 01:17
jose	gold works everywhere.. so gates wants to convert his paper billions into real assets or else they will go poof at some point in time.	Aug 30 01:17
jose	housing	Aug 30 01:18
jose	prices will drop to force or trick people into selling .. and the dollar will also weaken .. until those who move large volumes of money are satisfied that they have bought back their land	Aug 30 01:19
schestowitz	I have some analysis of MSFT tricks.	Aug 30 01:19
jose	ok, i'll stop	Aug 30 01:19
jose	bill parish has lots of stuff, too	Aug 30 01:19
schestowitz	One thing they do is move the money between buckets.	Aug 30 01:19
schestowitz	There are also loans.	Aug 30 01:20
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schestowitz	It's interesting (it's' catching up now). Remember that Microsoft makes a lot of money in the west, but in most of the world it gets nothing.	Aug 30 01:21
schestowitz	The vast majority of the world is using illegal copies, which Microsoft is actually happy about (better to 'steal' MS software than to use something else).	Aug 30 01:22
jose	"Shortly thereafter, Microsoft and Pancerzewski settled out of court. Terms of the agreement were sealed, but one source who claims familiarity with the case says that Microsoft paid Pancerzewski $4 million." $4 million seems like so little	Aug 30 01:24
jose	sorry, here is the link for the quote http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/...	Aug 30 01:27
schestowitz	For someone who could expose billions inn corruption -- yes.	Aug 30 01:27
jose	the bill parish piece mentioned earlier explains some more the details of the stock options problem.	Aug 30 01:32
jose	like the credit thing just mentioned, you pay your bills today on money that may or may not be there tomorrow	Aug 30 01:32
jose	the trick is to get out and not be left holding the hot potato..	Aug 30 01:32
schestowitz	Enron is small potatoes, eh?	Aug 30 01:32
jose	by giving away stock options instead of stock to employees...	Aug 30 01:32
jose	lol..	Aug 30 01:32
jose	..the employees can't sell ahead of gates and friends.	Aug 30 01:33
schestowitz	Gates sold off MSFT over time.	Aug 30 01:33
jose	that's the only way	Aug 30 01:33
schestowitz	Billions of it. I can find a post about it.	Aug 30 01:33
jose	i'll get you a link to something interesting on the gates foundation	Aug 30 01:33
schestowitz	http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.l... : SCROLL DOWN a bit.	Aug 30 01:34
jose	http://www.billparish.com/2004022...	Aug 30 01:35
schestowitz	I wrote about the use of the Gates Fundation [sic] as well.	Aug 30 01:35
jose	wrt the link i just posted: "Microsoft Foundation Liquidates all Shares of Microsoft"	Aug 30 01:35
schestowitz	It's very interesting how much of a bank account or 'pet charity' it hs become.	Aug 30 01:35
schestowitz	Exempt from tax too, so Warren joined it.	Aug 30 01:35
jose	with all that money they can have small companies look super impressive and then go public while they unload stock at many times earnings multiple	Aug 30 01:36
jose	so msft gives 100 million over a few years.. this money was gradually increased, eg, 1 million year 1 2 milllion year 2 4 million year 3 etc	Aug 30 01:37
jose	this company's fast earnings growth might lead to a p/e of 100	Aug 30 01:38
jose	thus in it's final year, the company takes in say 30 million but it's stock would be valued at 30*100 = 3billion	Aug 30 01:38
jose	meanwhile gates unloads on say 1.5 of those billions (if owns 50%) while msft invested just 100 to 200 million	Aug 30 01:39
jose	of course, wall street is not stupid.. sometimes after ipo's stock drop for a reason for a while before rebounding.. if the company is a legitimate one	Aug 30 01:39
jose	but the point is that through enough deception, derivatives, twisted nda agreements, etc.. you can convert modest cash into much larger paper money..	Aug 30 01:40
jose	it won't work always, but in real life companies make products so msft won't be funding everything but will simply help tip the scales	Aug 30 01:40
schestowitz	Interesting. I wonder why Paul Allen left.	Aug 30 01:41
jose	yup	Aug 30 01:41
schestowitz	Other than Ballmer and Gates talking behind his back about who gets his money if/when he dies (he had an illness)	Aug 30 01:42
jose	billparish talks at times of how paul has used outside companies to help msft..	Aug 30 01:42
jose	i don't track billparish, but have read various of his papers in the past	Aug 30 01:42
schestowitz	I can imagine.	Aug 30 01:42
schestowitz	Do you know how many companies Allen is involved in?	Aug 30 01:42
jose	i think you mentioned a big one recently.. there is also ticketmaster	Aug 30 01:43
jose	which is a monopoly	Aug 30 01:43
jose	or so i heard	Aug 30 01:43
schestowitz	All around the board: Wi-Fi, CNET (media), Microsoft... I can't recall.... Gates too has investments in oil companies, media companies, Corbis.	Aug 30 01:43
jose	they deserve jail	Aug 30 01:43
schestowitz	Well, duh.	Aug 30 01:44
schestowitz	But if you say this in Slashdot, you'll get attacked by a mob of shills.	Aug 30 01:44
schestowitz	That aside, dare to question the gates Foundation and see what you get.	Aug 30 01:44
schestowitz	Over the past 3 years I have criticised it in about 100 posts.	Aug 30 01:44
MinceR	what if you do it on digg?	Aug 30 01:45
schestowitz	Nothing else that I write about begs for as many angry attacks from trolls.	Aug 30 01:45
MinceR	does the counter overflow from negative to positive? :>	Aug 30 01:45
schestowitz	Digg too.	Aug 30 01:45
schestowitz	Digg has shills.	Aug 30 01:45
schestowitz	For a fact.	Aug 30 01:45
schestowitz	The same people who have shilled in USENET since the 90s are already there (for a fact).	Aug 30 01:45
jose	consider quoting from billparish after you look things over.. see link above	Aug 30 01:45
jose	derivatives	Aug 30 01:46
schestowitz	MinceR: they link to each other and gang up for peer validation (among trolls)	Aug 30 01:46
schestowitz	I sent him an E-mail some months ago and he wrote back.	Aug 30 01:47
jose	whom?	Aug 30 01:47
schestowitz	If people haven't the patience to read his posts, then all I can do is quote snippets.	Aug 30 01:47
jose	bp?	Aug 30 01:47
schestowitz	See for example: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/07... (QUOTES at the bottom)	Aug 30 01:47
schestowitz	Yes.	Aug 30 01:48
jose	k	Aug 30 01:48
jose	the b&M gates foundation was created out of msft stock (gates own donation) and they unloaded all of this behinds the scenes tax free.. gates could not have pulled that off, but the foundation could/did	Aug 30 01:51
jose	that money then can be used to prop up other businesses, including ms through donations that are ..	Aug 30 01:51
jose	earmarked or at least very likely to get returned as sales for companies gates and friends own.. including biomed and msft	Aug 30 01:52
jose	it's sickening and should lead to jail time if justice was ever served	Aug 30 01:52
jose	"If foundations like the Gates foundations receive tax-exempt treatment for security sales, they should be required to be fully disclosed. Only then will the free market system work. Linux users in particular should be pressing for such disclosures because only then will the playing field be level. Thinking that a more superior product will prevail in such an environment is simply naive."	Aug 30 01:53
jose	http://www.billparish.com/20040223pers...	Aug 30 01:53
schestowitz	Well, it's a bribery fund too.	Aug 30 01:54
jose	bribery right	Aug 30 01:54
schestowitz	When I say bribery I don't mean under-the-table deals	Aug 30 01:54
schestowitz	Like Lessig said...	Aug 30 01:54
schestowitz	It's done in sophtsicated ways	Aug 30 01:54
jose	the prob is that the market finds out about this (many have known forever likley)..	Aug 30 01:55
schestowitz	Gates gives fonations of s/w and h/w to nations that ponder moving to GNU/Linux.	Aug 30 01:55
jose	and they love it... milk ma and pa... why would we snitch..	Aug 30 01:55
schestowitz	(donations	Aug 30 01:55
schestowitz	It's already happening.	Aug 30 01:55
jose	so everyone participates and they all won't go to jail naturally	Aug 30 01:55
jose	yes, it's done in sophisticated ways .. as lessig said	Aug 30 01:55
schestowitz	it's harder to accuse people in suits and flashy logos.	Aug 30 01:56
schestowitz	That said, not account here is Microsoft political manipulation which I last posted about this morning (I don't know if you follow the Web site)	Aug 30 01:56
jose	recently i have looked at it much more, but not every day, no	Aug 30 01:57
schestowitz	Added to that are AstroTurfing activities that come through very many agencies that Microsoft hires. That's a fact. It also has fake 'journalists' planting stories (proven).	Aug 30 01:57
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jose	people might pay attention if the economy takes a dump.. then they will want heads to roll so they might pay attention even if they don't understand or truly believe.. but then, if you don't understand, you can be unconvinced and led to feel you are responsible wholly for your job loss and state of affairs	Aug 30 01:58
jose	the prob is that if "everyone" in power participates or if deals are done and deleted then not much will happen	Aug 30 01:59
schestowitz	This isn't just Microsoft.	Aug 30 02:00
jose	and if americans don't do it, others in other countries will...illusion or rather the faith and trust in money..	Aug 30 02:00
jose	will cause the "mislead" nations to pull ahead.	Aug 30 02:00
schestowitz	I am not an expert in many other areas, but a friend of mine from the gym studies such things too and he reckons that the real estate and loans industry plays a similar game	Aug 30 02:00
jose	so you sort of have to let things be.. well, i don't know but maybe	Aug 30 02:00
schestowitz	They pass the burden and debt downstream. They have the power to do so.	Aug 30 02:01
jose	it's about creating financial instruments that others will be willing to get behind...	Aug 30 02:02
jose	over time laws are passed to prevent those tactics that inevitably result in disaster and little actual gains (eg, pyramid schemes)	Aug 30 02:03
jose	but people keep devising these things.. and with sophisticated computer programs, they can make them very complicated to analyze	Aug 30 02:03
jose	if I pay you a hocko will you do X for me.. this will work if people trust hocko's	Aug 30 02:04
jose	the system works when we all gain from each others's contributions	Aug 30 02:04
schestowitz	Yes, that's how things are run and all we have is therefore circumstantial evidence.	Aug 30 02:04
jose	no matter hocko or msft stock	Aug 30 02:05
schestowitz	The lobbying industry is measured in $billions, so it's a shadowy thing with lots of impact.	Aug 30 02:05
jose	lobby money, uh	Aug 30 02:05
schestowitz	CIO.com: “Did you know that there are more than 34,750 registered lobbyists in Washington, D.C., for just 435 representatives and 100 senators? That's 64 lobbyists for each congressperson.”	Aug 30 02:05
jose	if you aren't reasonable, senator, then we'll just have to support someoen taht will be	Aug 30 02:06
schestowitz	It's down to regulation. With Gates, there are mandatory disclosures, but they are incomplete.	Aug 30 02:06
schestowitz	You can also see insider-trading very frequently.	Aug 30 02:06
jose	so everyone in power gets their hands dirty.. at least many do	Aug 30 02:06
schestowitz	Yes.	Aug 30 02:06
schestowitz	Recommended: http://lessig.org/blog/2008/...	Aug 30 02:07
jose	there truly is competition, but monopolies and mergers are evil for this reason.. that wealthiest bunch should never have too much control or it's over	Aug 30 02:07
jose	because they can't be caught and can manipulate things so that they win every game.. the playing field is never fair when one group is too strong	Aug 30 02:08
jose	most of this can be done legally	Aug 30 02:08
jose	well after lobbyists help pass the proper loopholes	Aug 30 02:09
jose	again, you can't regulate alll of this short of something like central control ..communism	Aug 30 02:09
jose	.. so to keep things distributed and fair..	Aug 30 02:09
jose	you need to ensure fair-ish competition	Aug 30 02:09
schestowitz	Transparency is goof.	Aug 30 02:09
jose	END to MONOPOLIES	Aug 30 02:09
schestowitz	I love Wikileaks.	Aug 30 02:09
schestowitz	*good, not "goof"	Aug 30 02:09
jose	well, the compeitition should keep all of this in check,, but if those with access and control ever end up as a small enough group, they will milk the rest of us	Aug 30 02:10
jose	we will play the games and appear to always lose legally	Aug 30 02:11
schestowitz	Like at present?	Aug 30 02:12
jose	to be clear, communism is horrible because of the extreme centralization of power..	Aug 30 02:12
schestowitz	Watch what's happening with swpatents at the moment. Classic case study.	Aug 30 02:13
MinceR	isn't that socialism?	Aug 30 02:18
MinceR	or did they intend to retain the state forever?	Aug 30 02:18
MinceR	(in what they claimed should be done)	Aug 30 02:19
MinceR	looking into the WP article only made me more confused :>	Aug 30 02:20
schestowitz	Which one?	Aug 30 02:20
MinceR	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co...	Aug 30 02:21
schestowitz	If I click on it, Gordon will harvest my packets. :-) j/k	Aug 30 02:23
jose	lol, yeah, i had to think twice before going there myself	Aug 30 02:24
MinceR	which Gordon?	Aug 30 02:24
schestowitz	Clown, to use RMS' joke.	Aug 30 02:24
MinceR	i don't think i know that joke	Aug 30 02:25
schestowitz	Paul Erdos was denied access to the US as an academic after being asked a question about Marx. It's funny how paranoid they were at the time	Aug 30 02:25
schestowitz	To this date, it's part of his obituary --- a single incident like this.	Aug 30 02:26
schestowitz	MinceR: when RMS came here to Manchester, he called Brown "Gordon Clown".	Aug 30 02:26
MinceR	lol	Aug 30 02:26
schestowitz	He also says Bliar.	Aug 30 02:27
jose	:)	Aug 30 02:27
*schestowitz is pro-Labour mostly.		Aug 30 02:27
*MinceR knows little about UK politics.		Aug 30 02:27
jose	the party system: you scratch my back I scratch yours.. appears to win easily over independents	Aug 30 02:28
schestowitz	There's no real election	Aug 30 02:28
jose	there's no real solution	Aug 30 02:29
MinceR	ah, so the same two groups of bastards taking turns fucking the country over setup as in the USA and here in hungary	Aug 30 02:29
schestowitz	The government always stays the same. It just has a different puppet (or set thereof) at the tip of the strings.	Aug 30 02:29
schestowitz	You have Blair, Brown and other UK commerce giants meeting up with Melinda Gates et al in Bilderberg annual meetings. That's where the elites decide on a lot of stuff.	Aug 30 02:30
MinceR	funny how this scum has the audacity to call themselves "elite"	Aug 30 02:31
schestowitz	Not in the athletic sense...	Aug 30 02:32
jose	so numbers can be manipulated legally (much is left to discretion) or at least in a way few are likely to realize..	Aug 30 02:34
jose	stocks rise and ma and pa willingly buy the hyped stocks. then world crashes.. or another round is started after strong pullbacks. buy high sell low for us.	Aug 30 02:35
jose	the sickness, like much in the media is that it's all a sell/con job that is mostly legal. we lose and feel we rightfully played the game and lost.	Aug 30 02:35
jose	it's too easy for "them" to cheat	Aug 30 02:35
schestowitz	The Wall Street press is glorfying itself to entice poor 'idiots' to toss their money in.	Aug 30 02:36
jose	what does buffet think?	Aug 30 02:36
jose	:)	Aug 30 02:36
jose	.. great, I'm in.	Aug 30 02:36
schestowitz	Then, when they lose it (like in a casino where adds are against you... never mind commission), the insider-traders win. They play the stock up and down with words of friend analysts.	Aug 30 02:36
jose	the business cycle is when they come clean as they allow the stocks to fall..	Aug 30 02:37
jose	..i say "allow" because a large was of money is controlled by few.. eg, 50% is more than enough even if these compete somewhat	Aug 30 02:38
schestowitz	I've seen Las Vegas wannabes burning their money trying to be Big Shots in 'the market'. It's like gambling, which is illegal in places.	Aug 30 02:38
jose	was of money -> wad of money	Aug 30 02:38
jose	too much is out of our controlled and the news outlets are carefully controlled so that we are most confident prior to the moment of doom	Aug 30 02:38
jose	you can't win when the opponent has insider access or at least a good guess and further has the ability to affect "independent" news	Aug 30 02:39
schestowitz	Yes, Robert Bach for example.	Aug 30 02:40
jose	this is how I view microsoft's control over their source code and so-called open documentation of them	Aug 30 02:40
schestowitz	He's a VP at Microsoft, but he should be in prison./	Aug 30 02:40
schestowitz	I wrote about this many times, but no-one that can do something about it would listen (of course not)	Aug 30 02:40
jose	one thing to keep in mind and it's why i mentioned communism..	Aug 30 02:41
schestowitz	Well, it's not the regime structure, IMHO.	Aug 30 02:41
jose	any rules that are established can seem fair (at least until ms gets their hands on them :/ )	Aug 30 02:41
schestowitz	It's just a case of living in a culture where criminals are glorified.	Aug 30 02:41
jose	but if you deal with business day in and out, it becomes much easier for you to be able to slaughter those with less experience	Aug 30 02:42
schestowitz	And winning athletes are probably on steroids: http://www.aqmd.gov/ej/images/Asthma...	Aug 30 02:42
jose	things are such that the victor can make too much..	Aug 30 02:42
jose	it's difficult to regulate to stop abuse	Aug 30 02:42
jose	so much boils down to a sell job and the free decisions by those being ..conned	Aug 30 02:43
schestowitz	That's when it's time for a reform, jose.	Aug 30 02:43
jose	we are left with horrible communism or accept that there will be problems in any free system where legal things will not be fair	Aug 30 02:43
jose	yes, you have to keep trying to improve it.	Aug 30 02:43
jose	look at marriages	Aug 30 02:44
schestowitz	Change Congress for instance: http://lessig.org/blog/2008/0...	Aug 30 02:44
jose	how many are "duped" into a relationship and situation that is not in their best interest? so do you make marriages illegal	Aug 30 02:44
jose	we haven't solved these basic problems	Aug 30 02:44
jose	the financial titans will continue to have their fun.. and that is ok as long as the side-effect/by-product damages aren't too painful to too many	Aug 30 02:45
schestowitz	Rules are very arbitrary, but those who bbenefit from the rules of a current game fight to maintain them.	Aug 30 02:45
schestowitz	In this case this involves monopolysoft.	Aug 30 02:46
jose	so what I am saying is that perfect rules are impossible.. much will be left to discretion (eg, "of professionals"). money has a way of twisting the professional opinions of professional and independent X	Aug 30 02:46
jose	it's interesting and sad	Aug 30 02:47
schestowitz	It's human's nature.	Aug 30 02:47
schestowitz	Whatever system allows someone to increase power (e.g. Hitler, Stalin) will be abused somehow. If it's not self-balancing, it's doomed to fail.	Aug 30 02:48
jose	those that labor and keep their level of education down are almost doomed to their lifestyle and bad draw.. again, communism ("their salvation") won't do because it will simply be one group of elite taking over another	Aug 30 02:48
jose	education is so important.. I love linux for this reason...	Aug 30 02:49
jose	among many other reasons, of course	Aug 30 02:49
jose	variety is valuable for the same reason.. to motivate people to create, learn, control, and grow..	Aug 30 02:49
jose	..and so that everyone can be king/queen of the hill in some area	Aug 30 02:50
jose	i am all for 1zillion distros (custom jobs, several per person) and completely against few distros to rule them all.	Aug 30 02:50
jose	without educated voters/workers, we are doomed to the current situation	Aug 30 02:51
schestowitz	Yuck. One distro? Now, that would be communism.	Aug 30 02:51
schestowitz	You know, like Windows.	Aug 30 02:51
jose	..again, unless we want to entrust one particular elite to rule with an iron hand.. that won't do	Aug 30 02:51
jose	lemmings are horrible.. if you want any free system to work	Aug 30 02:51
schestowitz	They are made that way.	Aug 30 02:52
schestowitz	Indutry-imposed televised information.	Aug 30 02:52
jose	we can fight ms tactics with similar ones.. but the prob is we must do it as hobbies to a large degree	Aug 30 02:52
schestowitz	It's 3 AM here now. I really need to go to bed, but I'll catch you tomorrow. Thanks for the good chat.	Aug 30 02:52
jose	ok,	Aug 30 02:52
jose	yup, it was fun.	Aug 30 02:53
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jose	schestowitz, i'll talk a bit since you might read it later (and for anyone else interested)	Aug 30 03:13
jose	ms makes lots of deals .. some of this might never go through, perhaps there is a bail out clause to motivate the deal	Aug 30 03:14
jose	nda's of course	Aug 30 03:15
jose	this starts to bring into ms "accounts receivables" that is debt they are owed but which may not be paid in cash at that point in time (buying on credit)	Aug 30 03:16
jose	this counts as revenue, but they still want/need cash.	Aug 30 03:16
jose	cash might be coming in from those paying off prior debts...	Aug 30 03:17
jose	however, is it so crazy to imagine that with gates connections and "motivations" he might not get some high ranking professional at bank X or some other group...	Aug 30 03:17
jose	to sign off as legit on buying this debt (the paper based account receivable contracts) in exchange for case or something just as liquid	Aug 30 03:18
jose	this means the bank takes the risk, but we know that "banks" in some case are being abused to take a fall for bad investments.	Aug 30 03:18
jose	so microsoft converts these promises to pay them from customers that might not pay or may not have to (at least in some cases) and get these promises converted to money	Aug 30 03:19
jose	which is then used to buy stock..whose stock.. well, gates' of course, as well as everyone else's, but this helps keep the price from plummeting while gates cashes out	Aug 30 03:20
jose	this almost certainly goes on to some degree. the idea is that only very little, but ms is full of creative methods.	Aug 30 03:21
jose	in the end, lot's of promises from companies that will eventually take a write-off.	Aug 30 03:21
jose	this isn't so crazy.. consider a public company that is a customer of microsoft	Aug 30 03:22
jose	they too hype up their earnings and add tricks like what was just mentioned.. to some degree.	Aug 30 03:22
jose	eventually, when the fun comes to an end or winds down, the stockprices will drop (eg, after the 2000 tech bubble where many were left holding worthless paper like stock options that had not matured/vested that was used to pay bills)	Aug 30 03:23
jose	during the hype time, ma and pa buy the stock from these companies	Aug 30 03:23
jose	then when the bad news comes out, industry wide,..	Aug 30 03:24
jose	the stocks plummet. but it wasn't gates that lost money..ok, he did but now before getting a bunch out at the high prices	Aug 30 03:24
jose	it was ma and pa's	Aug 30 03:24
jose	the cycle repeast. up and down up and down	Aug 30 03:25
jose	or just up and up	Aug 30 03:25
jose	point is that the market determines this. there is no secret formula, but the effect is for the big boys to bail ultimately before the stocks come way down	Aug 30 03:26
jose	the b&g gates foundation was able to dump their msft shares (which belonged to bill) without making noise	Aug 30 03:27
jose	gates could not have done this without leading to serious problems for msft.. but the nonprofit was able to dump it without quietly without ripples..	Aug 30 03:28
jose	and they likely sold it to groups like the teachers union pension fund and other such "well-managed" buyers	Aug 30 03:28
jose	through deception and tricks, gates cashes out at the tax payer expense or the expense of those that trust others to manage their money because supposedly these others know what they are doing	Aug 30 03:30
jose	gates has made billions and should have the rest of his wealth crumble if the company has problems.. it's called captain going down with the ship.. and it's not as if he wouldn't keep billions already...	Aug 30 03:31
jose	but no, he's willing to have ordinary working people take many more lumps so he can get many more billions out safely.	Aug 30 03:31
jose	and it's legal (well, some of it anyway) because after all, "these are all free people making free financial decisions that just didn't work out for them"	Aug 30 03:33
jose	interesting: http://billparish.wordpress.com/20...	Aug 30 03:37
jose	and this: http://billparish.wordpress.com/200...	Aug 30 03:44
jose	and this which is also about google: http://billparish.wordpress.com/2007...	Aug 30 03:46
jose	this interesting one shows that google is now doing what Microsoft was able to do in the past: http://billparish.wordpress.com/2007/...	Aug 30 03:49
jose	here is the quicky on stock options as (ab)used here	Aug 30 03:50
jose	company grants employees stock options, these can be converted into stock in the future.	Aug 30 03:50
jose	in the past, these were put in the financial reports but did not factor into revenues or any other "bottom line"	Aug 30 03:51
jose	today, these options are marked off but only very little (at least little if by the time they are exercised the company stock has gone up a lot)	Aug 30 03:52
jose	options don't cost the company today..	Aug 30 03:52
jose	but they cost the company when they are exercised relative to the stock prices then.	Aug 30 03:52
jose	so the effect is that microsoft appears to have paid it's employees very little years ago, but once those options got exercised	Aug 30 03:53
jose	the stock was worth huge amounts of money	Aug 30 03:53
jose	so who loses?	Aug 30 03:53
jose	well, the investors today find that a bunch of people all of a sudden are competing with your for the same paper money	Aug 30 03:54
jose	or rather, a chunk of the value of microsoft that used to belong to you based on your ownership just got handed over to others too so you own less of it	Aug 30 03:55
jose	on the one hand, your stock value should only drop a bit.. but the point is that microsoft pulled off their purchases and deals years ago through this heavy cost that was not reflected.	Aug 30 03:56
jose	so if earnings then were 1 buck per share, the hidden costs based on compensation payed out turned out to have been say $4 bucks meaning the company lost money	Aug 30 03:56
jose	but no one appears to lose..	Aug 30 03:57
jose	until the stock implodes	Aug 30 03:57
jose	this is why it is allowed by the gov.. because the effects are delayed way off into the future	Aug 30 03:57
jose	it's a pyramid scheme but it can last for many years so many will point to the positive stimulation effects during the interim period	Aug 30 03:57
jose	yet ma and pa ultimately pay and..	Aug 30 03:58
jose	in the case of microsoft, the reason it lasted so long was because of their powerful position at the center of many monopolies	Aug 30 03:58
jose	novell execs and others probably have a deal with ms so that they might rake in lots of cash.	Aug 30 03:58
jose	for that they'd lie and deceive (well those that get it, hope to get $$)	Aug 30 03:59
jose	and this brings me back to where i started: shocked that novell employee would be so forthright with his feelings in the blog.. if it was meant seriously which it probably was but .,m??	Aug 30 04:00
jose	http://automorphic.blogspot.com/2008...	Aug 30 04:00
jose	i think i should go to bed.	Aug 30 04:01
jose	the explanation i gave above for stock options was written badly.. bill parish writes some good pieces but anyone wanting to know will have to read in other places too.. check out the msfraudfacts article by bp	Aug 30 04:06
jose	btw, gap -> gaap and there is also the stricter rules of sas Statement of Auditing Standards .. here is the link to the popular ms pyramid paper for anyone that hasn't read it http://www.billparish.com/msftfraudfacts.html	Aug 30 04:17
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jose	one more thing i didn't mention, when stock options are exercised, all that money is amazingly given as tax breaks to the company. so not only do they not write off the costs, they get a tax break. makes no sense.	Aug 30 05:29
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twitter	great conversation. I like the Bill Parish update.	Aug 30 05:56
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ZiggyFish	hey	Aug 30 09:02
schestowitz	Hey there.	Aug 30 09:03
ZiggyFish	just catching up on the weeks events on the Linux front. Has there been any news on SilverLight?	Aug 30 09:04
schestowitz	It knocked people out of the Democrats' convention.	Aug 30 09:05
schestowitz	Links here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/...	Aug 30 09:05
ZiggyFish	yeah, I heard.	Aug 30 09:06
ZiggyFish	(keeping an eye out for SilverLight, it's the next big battle we will face	Aug 30 09:06
schestowitz	Right now I'm also interested in way of presenting Microsoft financial practices.	Aug 30 09:07
ZiggyFish	are you going to do an article on it (I can do some research for you)	Aug 30 09:08
schestowitz	Yes.	Aug 30 09:10
schestowitz	There was a long discussion about this last night.	Aug 30 09:10
schestowitz	I suggest we wait until tomorrow. See the IRC logs of the 30th.	Aug 30 09:10
ZiggyFish	sure	Aug 30 09:10
ZiggyFish	well the forth quarter ends on the 30th of september	Aug 30 09:15
schestowitz	Here's the thing, in a nutshell...	Aug 30 09:16
ZiggyFish	suppose we will find out then	Aug 30 09:16
schestowitz	Jose and I explored some old dirty laucndry.	Aug 30 09:16
ZiggyFish	nice	Aug 30 09:16
schestowitz	Some of it is documented and involves admission even by Microsoft insider.	Aug 30 09:16
schestowitz	*insiders	Aug 30 09:16
schestowitz	This was already 'filed', so to speak, in BN for future use.	Aug 30 09:17
schestowitz	Jose brought out some more article from Bill Parish -- ones that I haven't seen before. He has been explaining it too.	Aug 30 09:17
ZiggyFish	lol, if only the US gov wasn't corrupted by big corporations	Aug 30 09:18
schestowitz	The way it may or may not relate to Novell is relevant to us, but if along the way we also exposed the Enronisation of Microsoft, that might be helpful to others.	Aug 30 09:18
schestowitz	Groklaw too seems to be aware of the issue, suggestion that bankruptcy is not so far fetched (I'd have to look at my reference). Microsoft plays a dangerous gamble.	Aug 30 09:19
schestowitz	To give you just an idea, read this (before the bubble): http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/13/sm...	Aug 30 09:19
ZiggyFish	mm, interesting	Aug 30 09:23
schestowitz	My hypothesis is that Novell has debt, but the value of its assets exceed the 'cost' of this debt. What enforces this believe is The Register mentioning that after Novell's latest losses, there was a deby-writeoff.	Aug 30 09:23
schestowitz	Also see the following, which came before Novell totally sold out to Microsoft: http://boycottnovell.com/2007/11/22/nov... (BTW, it's possible that a lot of companies are like this, but it doesn't make it OK).	Aug 30 09:24
ZiggyFish	yeah, true	Aug 30 09:27
schestowitz	What specifically are you referring to? Either way, I'm prepared to write more about Novell's latest.	Aug 30 09:27
ZiggyFish	the article and the comment in brackets	Aug 30 09:28
schestowitz	Whoa:http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0198-22534...	Aug 30 09:29
ZiggyFish	wow	Aug 30 09:29
ZiggyFish	After more than seven years in the courts, Novell will spend $13.9 million to make a securities fraud class-action lawsuit go away.	Aug 30 09:30
schestowitz	Yes.	Aug 30 09:31
schestowitz	I will write about this later.	Aug 30 09:31
schestowitz	Microsoft too paid for people to take their fraud claims elsewhere.	Aug 30 09:31
schestowitz	Welcome to American justice, where you can commit a crime and get away with it if you are rich.	Aug 30 09:32
ZiggyFish	yeah, they would of also paid more then novel did	Aug 30 09:32
schestowitz	Apple too is like this... backdating scandal and other such thing. They escaped it somehow.	Aug 30 09:32
ZiggyFish	yeah	Aug 30 09:33
schestowitz	I'll do a post about this later. Novell won't be happy, but I only present documented facts.	Aug 30 09:35
ZiggyFish	nice	Aug 30 09:35
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schestowitz	Kettle. Black. http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-100...	Aug 30 10:42
schestowitz	Microsoft is 10 times worse than Google	Aug 30 10:42
schestowitz	Speaking of book-cooking, I'm pretty sure Alfresco does this too. It reported astounding figures, but deep inside lies a different reality and the marketing guy complains about the open source biz model. Latest: http://asay.blogspot.com/2008/...	Aug 30 10:46
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schestowitz	Hi, trmanco. Any news about Portugal?	Aug 30 11:13
schestowitz	Rui replied yesterday.	Aug 30 11:13
trmanco	haven't seen any news today	Aug 30 11:14
schestowitz	Hold on...	Aug 30 11:14
schestowitz	See comment at the bottom of http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/...	Aug 30 11:15
trmanco	ok	Aug 30 11:16
trmanco	Ireally don't know what he is talking about	Aug 30 11:18
trmanco	oh wait	Aug 30 11:19
schestowitz	The articles are in Portuguese.	Aug 30 11:22
trmanco	maybe he is referring to the e-escolas program, if you are in schools you can get a cheap laptop provided by the government that comes preloaded with windows or linux	Aug 30 11:23
ZiggyFish	nice	Aug 30 11:25
ZiggyFish	(I wish australia did that)	Aug 30 11:25
trmanco	Rui is more into the Portuguese stuff I like more international news, but I don't know of any open standards law project or anything with that name	Aug 30 11:25
trmanco	ZiggyFish, what?	Aug 30 11:25
trmanco	linux laptops at schools?	Aug 30 11:26
ZiggyFish	yeah	Aug 30 11:26
trmanco	people will likly go for the windows versions	Aug 30 11:26
trmanco	likely*	Aug 30 11:26
ZiggyFish	australia is big on microsoft	Aug 30 11:26
trmanco	so is portugal	Aug 30 11:26
trmanco	http://www.caixamagica.pt/CM12/ -> here is the linux distruibuition that comes with those laptops	Aug 30 11:27
schestowitz	trmanco: because they provided a dumbed-down version of Linux. It's an illusion of choice.	Aug 30 11:27
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schestowitz	What they should have done is given equal treatment.	Aug 30 11:27
schestowitz	schestowitz: I thought it was XO/Sugar.	Aug 30 11:28
trmanco	schestowitz, yes you are right	Aug 30 11:28
ZiggyFish	trmanco: 4Gb de software = in english	Aug 30 11:28
schestowitz	caixa magica moved away from SUSE, IIRC.	Aug 30 11:28
schestowitz	Let me check	Aug 30 11:28
trmanco	schestowitz, this is what Rui is talking about -> http://blog.softwarelivre.sapo.pt/20...	Aug 30 11:28
trmanco	I think	Aug 30 11:28
schestowitz	Yup! http://boycottnovell.com/2007/12/03/...	Aug 30 11:28
trmanco	http://translate.google.com/translate?...	Aug 30 11:29
schestowitz	You know what I think?	Aug 30 11:29
schestowitz	I think we should refer to Novell differently, just like "M$"	Aug 30 11:29
schestowitz	Microfraud was one example.	Aug 30 11:29
trmanco	yes its based on mandriva now	Aug 30 11:29
schestowitz	I left a comment about this here: http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/0...	Aug 30 11:30
schestowitz	Fraudvell sounds good?	Aug 30 11:30
schestowitz	I think there's sufficient proof to justify the allegation, even if it's a past story.	Aug 30 11:31
ZiggyFish	schestowitz: M$ is good because Microsoft is often referred to as MS	Aug 30 11:31
schestowitz	It wrongly suggests that Microsoft is wealthy. It's more like flattery.	Aug 30 11:31
ZiggyFish	it seguests that Microsoft cares only about money	Aug 30 11:32
schestowitz	Yes, that too. Tissue paper money...	Aug 30 11:33
trmanco	Rui may be right saying that Ballmer will come to Portugal to destroy the Open Standards project law	Aug 30 11:35
schestowitz	I have little doubt about it if he meets minister. How well can we show it? Any stories?	Aug 30 11:38
ZiggyFish	I'm looking at words that look simular to Novell, ones I've come up with NoVeil (which could be interpreted as they hide the true).	Aug 30 11:39
schestowitz	trmanco: I try to raise awareness. See this: http://www.google.com/search?num=...	Aug 30 11:39
trmanco	already on the 3rd result	Aug 30 11:39
schestowitz	We need to just document more evidence for other people to pick up and take action.	Aug 30 11:40
trmanco	http://www.programaslivres.net/2008/08/...	Aug 30 11:41
trmanco	here is another one	Aug 30 11:41
trmanco	schestowitz, this is the official announcement -> http://www.pcp.pt/index.php?o...	Aug 30 11:42
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trmanco	http://www.google.pt/searc...	Aug 30 11:42
trmanco	lots of info on google, but everything is in Portuguese	Aug 30 11:42
schestowitz	http://translate.google.com/trans... http://translate.google.com/translate?...	Aug 30 11:43
schestowitz	Thanks, you beat me to it.	Aug 30 11:43
trmanco	:P	Aug 30 11:43
ZiggyFish	this is so true, This means that if the information concerned is stored in a format that the supplier of software owns and controls, then it may be that the State has the ability to have the information, but does not have any way to recover, except using software that company in question. If the holder of that information can not recover without the consent of the manufacturer of software, then this is a situation of control	Aug 30 11:45
schestowitz	I'll blog it later.	Aug 30 11:46
trmanco	we have a better Portuguese distro in Portugal, its called Alinex and its debian based	Aug 30 11:51
trmanco	http://www.alinex.org/	Aug 30 11:52
ZiggyFish	nice, trmanco does ubuntu have a portugal lang support	Aug 30 11:52
schestowitz	I think I saw it listed in DistroWatch.	Aug 30 11:52
trmanco	ZiggyFish, yes	Aug 30 11:53
trmanco	but its not full	Aug 30 11:53
schestowitz	http://schestowitz.com/UseNet/200... http://linux.hostweb.com/TopicMessages/...	Aug 30 11:53
trmanco	https://translations.launchpad.net/...	Aug 30 11:54
schestowitz	When I wrote the latter, it was only added to DW.	Aug 30 11:54
ZiggyFish	I went back to ubuntu (was using fedora for about a week)	Aug 30 11:55
trmanco	Alinex was adopted in schools but it was version 1.0 and it had to be loaded with the Windows bootloader, not grub	Aug 30 11:56
trmanco	that was 2 years ago	Aug 30 11:57
trmanco	and nobody updates yet to the latest version	Aug 30 11:57
trmanco	updated*	Aug 30 11:57
trmanco	http://www.alinex.org/download/isos	Aug 30 11:57
trmanco	the one that says TIC was the one installed in schools all over the country leaving caixa mágica out of the game	Aug 30 11:58
schestowitz	it's probably diverse and thus obscure enough to be 'safe' (SSL).	Aug 30 11:58
schestowitz	What does caixa mágica mean?	Aug 30 11:59
trmanco	magic box	Aug 30 11:59
trmanco	known by lots of poruguese by tragic box	Aug 30 11:59
trmanco	caixa trágica	Aug 30 11:59
trmanco	used once, and 8. something version of it on a P2 with 64 megs of ram :\|	Aug 30 12:00
trmanco	an*	Aug 30 12:00
schestowitz	Magic box: sounds like Mandrake.	Aug 30 12:04
schestowitz	LOL Just found: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.p...	Aug 30 12:07
ZiggyFish	lol	Aug 30 12:10
schestowitz	http://www.linux-magazine.com/online/b...	Aug 30 12:11
schestowitz	This is very, very timely.	Aug 30 12:11
trmanco	:)	Aug 30 12:11
schestowitz	CNET is spreading lies about Brazil and the talking points of Microsoft are then citing CNET for disinformation. It's like some kind of propaganda party (CNET). I will write about it soon. IDC does the same thing, with the help of ZDNet and CNET.	Aug 30 12:12
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trmanco	microsofties	Aug 30 12:13
trmanco	they all work somehow together	Aug 30 12:13
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schestowitz	They panicked because all schools in Brazil move to Debian GNU/Linux with KDE.	Aug 30 12:14
schestowitz	So they sent the Ina Friend shill down there to write lies from Microsoft's chief liar.	Aug 30 12:14
schestowitz	"'Bravo. Good corporate lackey. Ina Fried gets a fluff job from the Microsoft head liar in Brazil and she runs with it THREE times and now you jump on it. Bravo."	Aug 30 12:15
schestowitz	From http://news.cnet.com/8301-13...	Aug 30 12:15
schestowitz	Leif is moving to GNU/Linux: http://lodahl.blogspot.com/2008/08... http://lodahl.blogspot.com/2008/08/...	Aug 30 12:32
trmanco	look like that open source law project is going to be aplied soon in portugal	Aug 30 13:24
trmanco	looks*	Aug 30 13:24
trmanco	Entrada em vigor	Aug 30 13:25
trmanco	A presente lei entra em vigor 90 dias após a sua publicaÃÂ§ão.	Aug 30 13:25
trmanco	Assembleia da RepÃÂºblica, em 30 de Julho de 2008	Aug 30 13:25
schestowitz	Thanks.	Aug 30 13:29
schestowitz	I was writing about it _JUST NOW_ :-)	Aug 30 13:29
trmanco	:p	Aug 30 13:30
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schestowitz	seller_liar has just left, but I was going to write about Brazil too.	Aug 30 13:31
schestowitz	Microsoft has a propaganda running against Brazil and Linux. It's becoming more clear all the time.	Aug 30 13:31
ZiggyFish	has there been any news about Australia lately	Aug 30 14:11
schestowitz	No Lenovo sub0-notebooks with GNU/Linux there, IIRC.	Aug 30 14:17
trmanco	http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_HNEge4Yf...	Aug 30 14:30
ZiggyFish	nice	Aug 30 14:30
schestowitz	trmanco: If I forgot some details or you can add some: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/30/b...	Aug 30 14:46
trmanco	looks alright to me :)	Aug 30 14:50
schestowitz	I also did Brazil: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/30/g...	Aug 30 14:52
trmanco	cool	Aug 30 14:55
trmanco	I'm also reading the official .DOC file with that law project in portugal	Aug 30 14:55
trmanco	.doc :\|	Aug 30 14:55
trmanco	its the same thing thats published on there site	Aug 30 14:56
trmanco	with some images	Aug 30 15:02
schestowitz	LOL Dot Doc. A bit like ISO...	Aug 30 15:04
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2007/09/1...	Aug 30 15:04
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2008/03/2...	Aug 30 15:05
schestowitz	Ha! Cool: http://polishlinux.org/linux/how-to-ge...	Aug 30 15:23
schestowitz	I wonder if that's the person was was in IRC the other day asking questions about it. I can't recall if it was from Poland, but I gave the Dave Mitchell article as reference.	Aug 30 15:25
mib_g7349c	That was probably my dad or older brother. They had gone out to circuit city, best buy and most of the local comp. shops. They then hit the web sites (del, hp, etc.) and seen they could only get computers with vista on them	Aug 30 16:55
mib_g7349c	He had to drill down on the dell site to find the ubuntu machines	Aug 30 16:56
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benJIman	"I think there are some folks that are very active online trying to complain about this particular issue[ms-novell], and they’re welcome to that viewpoint. I would suggest that maybe if you are deeply committed to open source, perhaps your time would be better spent in doing something positive."	Aug 30 17:28
twitter	People do what they can, Benjie. Anything that advances software freedom or detracts from those who are enemies of freedom helps.	Aug 30 18:05
twitter	Now that ISO has two "standards" for docs, I wonder which one they will demand for comments.	Aug 30 18:53
MinceR	neither, they'll demand .doc ;)	Aug 30 18:57
MinceR	or, even better, .doc renamed to .rtf	Aug 30 18:57
schestowitz	Or snail mail (like Cuba)	Aug 30 18:57
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twitter	How about NoValue as a name for Novell?	Aug 30 19:28
twitter	I can see it in their cute little font.	Aug 30 19:29
twitter	So 80s.	Aug 30 19:29
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schestowitz	Hehe. That's a good one.	Aug 30 19:37
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schestowitz	Someone just posted me about http://boycottnovell.com/credibility-index/	Aug 30 19:44
schestowitz	"Also, Ingrid Marson is missing. Of ZDNet http://www.google.com/search?q= "ingrid+marson" she wrote really good stuff. Haven't seen her on ZDNet lately, though I read it less than before. Once the list is filled out, start tracking staffing changes and look for correlations between M$ advertising money or other similar influence and departure of the non-shills."	Aug 30 19:44
schestowitz	I see http://gcc.gnu.org/ml... . In 3 years of reading *nix news, I never came across the name. ZDNet is MS turf BTW. Is anyone familiar with Ingrid?	Aug 30 19:44
schestowitz	twitter: http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/...	Aug 30 20:06
twitter	:)	Aug 30 20:11
twitter	Mine has two Ls, to make fun of the illiterate origin.	Aug 30 20:12
twitter	I have png and svg. What's a good email address to send it to you? Bayimg is not working right now and they don't accept svg anyway.	Aug 30 20:14
schestowitz	My bad.	Aug 30 20:14
MinceR	re the NoValue logo: the 'e' could be taken from the Novell logo too	Aug 30 20:46
schestowitz	Yeah.. I did this very quickly. I won't be used much.	Aug 30 20:53
schestowitz	I returned to using the royalty-free stock exchange, as I did back in 2004-2006, so there should be more pictures in BN.	Aug 30 20:54
*kentma (n=user@host86-155-234-231.range86-155.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell		Aug 30 22:50
kentma	evenin' all	Aug 30 22:50
schestowitz	How was vacation?	Aug 30 22:51
kentma	exce,,e t	Aug 30 22:51
schestowitz	Lost a finger?	Aug 30 22:51
kentma	hehe - maybe! I was mostly on a canal boat on the llangollen and then shropshire union canals, via Beeston castle (see Jodrell Bank), and into Chester for a day. Great fun - and saw a horse-drawn 102 year old boat!	Aug 30 22:52
kentma	oh yeah, and the last commercial boat made - they made it without rivets in order to save 2 tons in weight, but they couldn't compete with wagons.	Aug 30 22:53
schestowitz	Well, the NG server was up consistently. On the other day, my machine at work is down. I had the IT staff check the router... the connection is lost for no reason.	Aug 30 22:53
schestowitz	The USENET troll now call me a shill for Microsoft. LOL	Aug 30 22:54
kentma	Ah, great news that the server stayed up! sorry about your work machine. MS troll? amazing...	Aug 30 22:54
kentma	Any particular reason for that?	Aug 30 22:54
schestowitz	The USENET stuff? Go ans watch. It's hilarious. Desparate to discredit.	Aug 30 22:54
kentma	I shall take a peak later on... I've a few digests to catch up with, of course. Perhaps I should find a delegate for whilst I'm away...	Aug 30 22:55
kentma	Interesting thing - my no2 son found out what the MS trolls had been saying about me - I had to explain that Microsoft pay people to abuse anyone who promotes alternatives... he was a little shocked.	Aug 30 22:57
schestowitz	kentma: I think you want to see this < http://goliath.ecnext.com/... > and this < http://web.archive.org/web/20070308... >	Aug 30 22:57
*kentma looks		Aug 30 22:57
kentma	oh...	Aug 30 22:58
kentma	sh1t	Aug 30 22:58
schestowitz	My grandpa and brother saw things about me. But... :-) ... when they read libel about me chopping off things, they just laugh of course. Hopefully this libel does not affect other people.	Aug 30 22:58
kentma	Ah, at last, the truth about the finance is beginning to emerge.	Aug 30 22:59
kentma	I recall the abuse I got when I pointed out that$19bn had disappeared from MS's books over just a couple of years.	Aug 30 22:59
schestowitz	I showed this to Moody. Microsoft will possibly be shut down like Enron at the end.	Aug 30 22:59
schestowitz	http://boycottnovell.com/2008...	Aug 30 23:01
schestowitz	18 billion in losses back in 1998.	Aug 30 23:01
kentma	they've been losing money for a very long time. the situation is not sustainable...	Aug 30 23:02
schestowitz	For Microsoft or the US economy that they've been robbing?	Aug 30 23:03
kentma	US$4m is a lot to settle something which you consider to be wrong...	Aug 30 23:03
schestowitz	There was a chat about this here (last night)	Aug 30 23:03
schestowitz	kentma: it wasn't class action, unlike the former (Novell)	Aug 30 23:04
kentma	oh, I think that the US Economy argument would be that so much money came into the US from the rest of the world, that failing to pay tax is relatively minor, I'd say.	Aug 30 23:04
kentma	It's a weak argument, but I bet it'd buy a few politicians...	Aug 30 23:05
kentma	argghh! the room is swaying!	Aug 30 23:05
schestowitz	Speaking of tax shelter, Gates Foundation. Let me find a URL from last night.	Aug 30 23:06
schestowitz	http://billparish.wordpress.com/2007/09/...	Aug 30 23:07
schestowitz	And this: http://www.billparish.com/20040223...	Aug 30 23:07
ZiggyFish	just reading the http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?p... article , nice, some OS devs will be happy about this (just posted it to a OSDev forum I know of ;) )	Aug 30 23:07
kentma	um, interesting...	Aug 30 23:07
schestowitz	http://billparish.wordpress.com/2008/03/1...	Aug 30 23:08
kentma	ZiggyFish: good news :-)	Aug 30 23:08
schestowitz	http://billparish.wordpress.com/200...	Aug 30 23:08
schestowitz	http://billparish.wordpress.com/2007/10/04/micros...	Aug 30 23:08
schestowitz	\http://billparish.wordpress.com/2007/09/28/inside-st...	Aug 30 23:08
schestowitz	Oops. http://billparish.wordpress.com/2007/09/28/...	Aug 30 23:08
kentma	umm - fascinating...	Aug 30 23:09
schestowitz	Jose left this comment: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php...	Aug 30 23:09
schestowitz	ZiggyFish: there's more from VIA and Silicon Motion Driver	Aug 30 23:10
schestowitz	I'll post a link later tonight, but: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&a... http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&a...	Aug 30 23:10
kentma	fascinating about the stock options problem.	Aug 30 23:10
schestowitz	They make lots of mon... errr.. paper tissue.	Aug 30 23:10
kentma	:-)	Aug 30 23:11
schestowitz	I reckon they don't make any money (maybe even losses) in developing countries where they give the software away and call it "piracy".	Aug 30 23:11
ZiggyFish	nice, 2 years ago. we had problems getting 3D acceleration (from the hobbiest OS dev POV),	Aug 30 23:11
kentma	it's possible that their local units make some kind of profit locally, since they have zero production costs.	Aug 30 23:11
kentma	ZiggyFish: :-)	Aug 30 23:11
schestowitz	kentma: localisation is what I had in mind.	Aug 30 23:12
ZiggyFish	(use to be a OS dev myself)	Aug 30 23:12
schestowitz	ZiggyFish: help the MINIX folks.	Aug 30 23:12
kentma	ZiggyFish: I recall you've mentioned that before. An honourable trade, anyway.	Aug 30 23:12
schestowitz	http://www.educ.umu.se/~bjorn/mhon...	Aug 30 23:13
ZiggyFish	yeah	Aug 30 23:13
kentma	anyway - c u 2morrow folks	Aug 30 23:15
schestowitz	New Linux user (Denmark's main man for OOo): http://lodahl.blogspot.com/...	Aug 30 23:20
ZiggyFish	nice	Aug 30 23:31
ZiggyFish	left a post about his last statement though	Aug 30 23:35
schestowitz	Leif?	Aug 30 23:36
schestowitz	Moderation maybe?	Aug 30 23:36
ZiggyFish	yeah	Aug 30 23:37
schestowitz	Good man.	Aug 30 23:37
schestowitz	Some months ago he was ranting about Linux without having used it.	Aug 30 23:37
schestowitz	He said it was just for technical people, basing this on his colleagues apparently.	Aug 30 23:37
ZiggyFish	lol, well with the problems he has had, to an average user these are technical problems	Aug 30 23:38
schestowitz	LOL didn't notice that.	Aug 30 23:39
schestowitz	/etc/ LOL	Aug 30 23:39
schestowitz	Never mind the typo (firfox). But that's what help is for. He needs to move the profile from the userspace.	Aug 30 23:40
*cozub has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))		Aug 30 23:40
ZiggyFish	yeah, but he also may be using outlook, which is another problem	Aug 30 23:41
schestowitz	Carla wrote about it last night: http://www.linuxtoday.com/new...	Aug 30 23:41
schestowitz	Good news: http://commit-digest.org/issues/2008-08-17/ No Mono or C# patches this week.	Aug 30 23:42
ZiggyFish	nice	Aug 30 23:42
schestowitz	Should be 'this' week. It was posted moments ago, but it's referring to 2 weeks ago.	Aug 30 23:45

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 30th, 2008

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