| [H]omer | I don't | Sep 05 17:50 |
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| schestowitz | Novell didn't like people who type opensuse and Opensuse | Sep 05 17:50 |
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| schestowitz | IIRC | Sep 05 17:50 |
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| [H]omer | No more than I'd blame Fedora if Red Hat sold out | Sep 05 17:50 |
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| schestowitz | Unless majority vote counts... | Sep 05 17:51 |
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| schestowitz | Like Americans trying to tell Brits how to spell English words. | Sep 05 17:51 |
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| benJIman | It's not a word, it's a name. | Sep 05 17:51 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, it is. | Sep 05 17:51 |
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| [H]omer | Well i still write SuSE, like the good old days. | Sep 05 17:51 |
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| [H]omer | Before Sweaty Ballmer's "235 patents" | Sep 05 17:52 |
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| schestowitz | Haha. Microsoft's IDC is kicking Novell in the crotch now: http://www.itworldcanada.com/a/D... | Sep 05 17:52 |
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| *benJIman wonders if Ballmer being sweaty validates your argument. | Sep 05 17:52 |
| schestowitz | Enjoying the dance with the Devil, Ron? | Sep 05 17:52 |
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| schestowitz | I guess Ron won't be getting IDC loves until he bribes Gillen and his groupies. | Sep 05 17:53 |
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| schestowitz | Maybe Novell can borrow some more money from Ballmer to pay IDC for good coverage. | Sep 05 17:53 |
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| [H]omer | SUSE people just don't seem to understand that the attacks are not directed towards them as individuals, it's dissent against Microsoft and anyone who supports them. Surely that's clear enough. And do I really need to remind such people *why* we dissent against that convicted monopolist? | Sep 05 17:53 |
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| benJIman | [H]omer: Do you actually read any of the articles on boyblog? They frequently attack openSUSE and developers working on free software. | Sep 05 17:54 |
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| [H]omer | I am not BN, I am me. | Sep 05 17:55 |
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| schestowitz | benJIman: attack who? People who mistakenly or knowingly help Microsoft against FOSS? | Sep 05 17:56 |
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| [H]omer | You attacking *all* dissenters is as bigoted as you seem to think we are towards SUSE. That's hypocrisy benJIman. | Sep 05 17:56 |
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| schestowitz | They also attacked journalists over this. | Sep 05 17:56 |
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| schestowitz | That's the most repulsive form of censorship | Sep 05 17:56 |
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| benJIman | Where was I attacking all dissenters? | Sep 05 17:56 |
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| [H]omer | "They frequently attack openSUSE" | Sep 05 17:56 |
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| schestowitz | To just write my mind out quickly, Novell pretty much 'gagged' Seigo before the latest announcement and I've inquired a bit. | Sep 05 17:57 |
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| [H]omer | Who's "they"? | Sep 05 17:57 |
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| benJIman | [H]omer: The articles. | Sep 05 17:57 |
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| schestowitz | SJVN too was contacted by Novell and Asay too. | Sep 05 17:57 |
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| schestowitz | Surprise surprise/ | Sep 05 17:57 |
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| schestowitz | The world then thinks that it's all okay if Novell falls into Mirosoft's arms and there's no dissent in the media. So it must be OK | Sep 05 17:57 |
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| schestowitz | In my eyes, what Novell did at the time (I documented this with good solid proof) is like the things the Bush Regime does to defend its abuse. | Sep 05 17:58 |
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| [H]omer | So let me ask you quite bluntly benJIman, just to clear this up, do you or do you not support Microsoft? | Sep 05 17:58 |
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| benJIman | [H]omer: How do you define support? | Sep 05 17:58 |
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| schestowitz | And careful and carless developers alike just gaze and this and reckon that the media is 'right' and that the deal is one to accept. | Sep 05 17:58 |
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| schestowitz | They leave it to 'the experts' | Sep 05 17:58 |
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| [H]omer | benJIman, you sound like Gates answering questions for the DOJ. "Define uninstall"? | Sep 05 17:59 |
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| benJIman | [H]omer: I use Free software on all my own machines, I don't buy any microsoft products. I work with c#, .net, asp.net etc at work. | Sep 05 17:59 |
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| [H]omer | Surely you know what the word "support" means. | Sep 05 17:59 |
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| benJIman | So I don't really know what you're asking. | Sep 05 17:59 |
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| benJIman | I don't give them money or use their products on my own time. | Sep 05 17:59 |
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| [H]omer | Do you support Microsoft's anti-Linux agenda? | Sep 05 18:00 |
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| [H]omer | When Microsoft sabotaged Mandriva and the OLPC, did you support that? | Sep 05 18:00 |
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| schestowitz | Assimilation maybe. | Sep 05 18:00 |
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| benJIman | No. | Sep 05 18:00 |
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| schestowitz | As in, Microsoft dictates for Linux programmers. | Sep 05 18:00 |
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| schestowitz | That's what Mono is about. | Sep 05 18:00 |
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| benJIman | I do like mono. | Sep 05 18:00 |
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| benJIman | but I prefer java. | Sep 05 18:01 |
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| [H]omer | benJIman, then if you don't support Microsoft, why do you support those who do, such as Novell? | Sep 05 18:01 |
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| [H]omer | "The friend of my enemy is also mu enemy" | Sep 05 18:01 |
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| benJIman | [H]omer: I don't support Novell per se. I even disagree with a lot they do. | Sep 05 18:01 |
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| [H]omer | Then why come here to be "entertained"? | Sep 05 18:02 |
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| schestowitz | * OT: On Ellison and possible fraud: http://www.forbes.com/markets/2008/09/... | Sep 05 18:02 |
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| benJIman | I think their SLE licensing model is not sensible. I think the patent part of the covenant was unfortunate. I really don't like groupwise, ichain and such. | Sep 05 18:03 |
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| [H]omer | benJIman, if you were to just think about exactly *why* we dissent, and specifically *who* we dissent against, then perhaps you'd realise that these "attacks" are not directed against you; the community; or openSUSE. | Sep 05 18:03 |
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| Odd_Bloke | benJIman: You like Java? | Sep 05 18:04 |
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| Odd_Bloke | Do you support Sun? | Sep 05 18:04 |
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| benJIman | :o Odd_Bloke is here. | Sep 05 18:04 |
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| schestowitz | " I think the patent part of the covenant was unfortunate." Please elaborate | Sep 05 18:05 |
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| [H]omer | Java is pure GPL now, that should be a good enough reason. Then there's OO.org too, of course. | Sep 05 18:05 |
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| schestowitz | Unfortunate? | Sep 05 18:05 |
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| schestowitz | There's no fortune | Sep 05 18:05 |
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| benJIman | [H]omer: In that case why don't you post an article on boycottnovell.com stating that you don't have anything against openSUSE nor that they are responsible for or bound by Novell's actions. | Sep 05 18:05 |
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| Odd_Bloke | Java isn't pure GPL, it's a trademark. | Sep 05 18:05 |
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| schestowitz | Novell came to Microsoft /asking/ for this. | Sep 05 18:05 |
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| [H]omer | benJIman, I'm not required to refute that which I have never claimed. | Sep 05 18:06 |
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| Odd_Bloke | Yeah, who gives a crap about good will in the free software community. | Sep 05 18:06 |
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| [H]omer | benJIman, why don't you post an article denouncing murder, or theft, or war, for example. | Sep 05 18:06 |
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| [H]omer | benJIman, presumably you've never stated your support for those things, so why denounce them? | Sep 05 18:07 |
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| [H]omer | benJIman, I tell you what, why don't you quote some "anti-openSUSE attack" here, and I'll tell you now whether or not I support that assertion? | Sep 05 18:08 |
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| benJIman | [H]omer: Apologies, I did not mean you personally, but boycottnovell collectively. | Sep 05 18:09 |
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| [H]omer | I'm here to dissent against Microsoft and *all* their supporters. That's all. | Sep 05 18:10 |
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| [H]omer | Does the openSUSE community support Microsoft? | Sep 05 18:10 |
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| Odd_Bloke | What does 'support' mean? | Sep 05 18:10 |
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| [H]omer | If not then ... there's your answer. | Sep 05 18:10 |
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| Odd_Bloke | I had to boot up Vista at work yesterday to test that a website I was working on would work in IE7. | Sep 05 18:11 |
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| Odd_Bloke | Does that count as supporting Microsoft? | Sep 05 18:11 |
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| benJIman | [H]omer: There is nothing that has been signed by contributors that even mentions Microsoft afaik. | Sep 05 18:11 |
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| benJIman | Odd_Bloke: Clearly you are a Microsoft Shill. €¬_€¬ | Sep 05 18:11 |
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| Odd_Bloke | MSFT FTW. >.< | Sep 05 18:12 |
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| [H]omer | Odd_Bloke, support ... as in "believe in", "follow", "give assistance to", "praise", "be happy about", "be content with", "want", "like", etc. I hope that's clear. | Sep 05 18:13 |
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| schestowitz | Odd_Bloke: are you also in the Opensuse channel ATM? | Sep 05 18:13 |
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| Odd_Bloke | schestowitz: I think so, I was supporting a customer through an upgrade a couple of days ago. | Sep 05 18:13 |
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| Odd_Bloke | And having no experience with openSUSE myself needed a hand. | Sep 05 18:14 |
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| schestowitz | So you're ganging up here. | Sep 05 18:14 |
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| Odd_Bloke | Uhm, no. | Sep 05 18:14 |
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| [H]omer | When people start demanding definitions for simple words like "support", that looks highly evasive to me. Much like Gates answering questions for the DOJ. You should look at it some time, it's hilarious. | Sep 05 18:14 |
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| schestowitz | We also have 3 'mibs' | Sep 05 18:14 |
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| schestowitz | Who ae eerily quiet I might add. | Sep 05 18:14 |
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| schestowitz | [H]omer: "what do you mean by 'hilarious'?" | Sep 05 18:15 |
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| [H]omer | http://antitrust.slated.org/g... | Sep 05 18:15 |
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| Odd_Bloke | No, hilarious is a well-defined word. | Sep 05 18:15 |
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| benJIman | [H]omer: The point is that unless the members of the community have signed a statement of support I don't know how you expect the question to be answered. | Sep 05 18:15 |
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| [H]omer | Hilarious because of Gates' squirming around trying to avoid questions, whilst rocking back and forth in his chair | Sep 05 18:15 |
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| schestowitz | Needs some Kaffeine | Sep 05 18:15 |
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| Odd_Bloke | But 'support' can mean many different things in different contexts. | Sep 05 18:15 |
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| Odd_Bloke | I 'support' Windows in that some of our clients run it. | Sep 05 18:16 |
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| schestowitz | *sigh* | Sep 05 18:16 |
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| Odd_Bloke | But I in no way 'support' proprietary software or Microsoft ideologically. | Sep 05 18:16 |
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| schestowitz | The conclusion I reach is that OpenSUSE people quietly endorse the deal | Sep 05 18:16 |
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| schestowitz | Or... they are not willing to resist it. | Sep 05 18:16 |
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| schestowitz | That too is support, albeit through passiveness and apathy. | Sep 05 18:17 |
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| schestowitz | Thanks for elucidating. | Sep 05 18:17 |
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| Odd_Bloke | Or they realise that doing and creating free software is better than talking about non-free software. | Sep 05 18:17 |
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| [H]omer | benJIman, but your very presence here for "entertainment" indicates you challenge our dissent - think it's a joke. | Sep 05 18:17 |
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| benJIman | schestowitz: I do not endorse the deal, and I disagree with the patent covenant. Though I think the unfortunate wording was more down to Novell management being epic noobs than the conspiracy theories. | Sep 05 18:18 |
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| Odd_Bloke | [H]omer: It is in no way just openSUSE people that consider your 'dissent' a joke. | Sep 05 18:18 |
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| Odd_Bloke | But, no doubt, you could find enough of a link to Microsoft to salve your noble spirit. | Sep 05 18:18 |
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| Odd_Bloke | Oh, I should note that I know benJIman through university, not through openSUSE. | Sep 05 18:19 |
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| Odd_Bloke | That's how he recognised me when I spoke up, not through our sworn allegiance to Satan. | Sep 05 18:20 |
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| [H]omer | Odd_Bloke, OK then, please explain what's so funny about what Microsoft did in Nigeria to Mandriva, or Sweden with OOXML? And what's so "funny" about people who dissent against that, and dissent against those who support Microsoft? | Sep 05 18:20 |
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| schestowitz | For people who purport to be happy about SUSE, you seem very keen to 'entertain' yourselves here. | Sep 05 18:20 |
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| schestowitz | Or Novell's alleged fraud for that matter. | Sep 05 18:21 |
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| schestowitz | They paid $14 million for these allegations to go away. | Sep 05 18:21 |
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| benJIman | [H]omer: I don't think you'll find that anyone suggested those things were funny. | Sep 05 18:21 |
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| schestowitz | Better learn to love Microsoft, you two, because Hovsepian indicates that the number of collaborations with Ballmer will triple (up to about 27) | Sep 05 18:21 |
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| Odd_Bloke | I don't take issue with your dissent against Microsoft because its dissent against Microsoft, I take issue with you being so flagrantly bad at it. | Sep 05 18:22 |
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| [H]omer | benJIman, but you're here to be "entertained", are you not? | Sep 05 18:22 |
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| Odd_Bloke | You're a laughing stock, because you froth at the mouth. | Sep 05 18:22 |
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| schestowitz | Since Microsoft fights FOSS and breaks the law in the process even, Novell is fighting FOSS too. And as I emphasized before, more people realise this. | Sep 05 18:22 |
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| Odd_Bloke | You're an object of ridicule which the other side can hold up to make the entire community look stupid. | Sep 05 18:22 |
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| schestowitz | There's a reason why more people follow BN and it's not because there's anything more than independent suspicion and relisation. | Sep 05 18:23 |
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| Odd_Bloke | _That_ is why I take issue. | Sep 05 18:23 |
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| *PetoKraus (n=Peter@78-86-98-119.zone2.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 05 18:23 |
| schestowitz | Hi, PetoKraus | Sep 05 18:23 |
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| [H]omer | Odd_Bloke, so it's funny when people are "outraged" by corruption now, is it? What do *you* do, shrug your shoulders and stick your head in the sand, I suppose. | Sep 05 18:23 |
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| schestowitz | Because he loves his OpenSUSE. | Sep 05 18:23 |
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| [H]omer | But anti-Microsoft != anti-openSUSE | Sep 05 18:24 |
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| [H]omer | Unless the openSUSE community is declaring their support for Microsoft | Sep 05 18:24 |
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| Odd_Bloke | [H]omer: I'm currently employed at a free software consultancy, I work on bzr and Debian packaging when I get home from said job, I participate in my local GLUG. | Sep 05 18:24 |
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| Odd_Bloke | If we're going to beat them, we have to do it by being _better_. | Sep 05 18:25 |
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| Odd_Bloke | Being right isn't good enough. | Sep 05 18:25 |
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| [H]omer | Odd_Bloke, good, then you hate Microsoft as much as I do then? | Sep 05 18:25 |
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| *moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovell | Sep 05 18:27 |
| [H]omer | I don't need to prove that the Free Software community is "right" (as in morally right), and that Microsoft is wrong. That much is patently obvious. But I do want to spread that word as far and loud as I can. | Sep 05 18:27 |
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| Odd_Bloke | I don't think I'd characterise it as hate. | Sep 05 18:27 |
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| [H]omer | What I'm saying is it's time to pick a side, and stop sitting on the fence. | Sep 05 18:27 |
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| Odd_Bloke | Uhm, I've picked my side. | Sep 05 18:27 |
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| [H]omer | Microsoft is our self-declared enemy "Linux is a cancer". Start treating them as such. | Sep 05 18:28 |
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| [H]omer | If no one ever dissents against them, then they will continue to corrupt IT with complete impunity. Do you really want that? | Sep 05 18:29 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.webwire.com/ViewPres... Novell: "reducing the problems associated with deploying new operating system (OS) platforms like Vista, decreasing expensive service desk calls and increasing user productivity." | Sep 05 18:29 |
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| [H]omer | Would you tolerate a mass-murderer on the loose? Microsoft "murders" software Freedom. | Sep 05 18:30 |
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| [H]omer | It sabotages Linux. | Sep 05 18:30 |
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| Odd_Bloke | No, I wouldn't. | Sep 05 18:30 |
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| schestowitz | This happens to be true, but Microsoft has a good lawyer. | Sep 05 18:30 |
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| Odd_Bloke | But comparing a human life to software freedom is pretty simple-minded. | Sep 05 18:30 |
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| schestowitz | It's like a criminal that claims to have helped the community, been a good husband etc. | Sep 05 18:30 |
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| [H]omer | Crime is crime, surely? | Sep 05 18:31 |
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| schestowitz | Odd_Bloke: our society becomes digital | Sep 05 18:31 |
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| [H]omer | Tolerate it, or fight again it. | Sep 05 18:31 |
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| [H]omer | *against | Sep 05 18:31 |
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| schestowitz | Those who are poor die from hunger sometimes. | Sep 05 18:31 |
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| Odd_Bloke | You seem to have a very narrow view of both dissent and fighting against proprietary software. | Sep 05 18:31 |
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| Odd_Bloke | Both of which seem to involve making a lot of noise. | Sep 05 18:32 |
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| [H]omer | My fight is not against "proprietary software", it's against Microsoft - convicted monopolists and racketeers. | Sep 05 18:32 |
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| Odd_Bloke | That's where you and I differ. | Sep 05 18:33 |
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| schestowitz | Proprietary software is dangerous when it's equipped or accompanies with malice. | Sep 05 18:33 |
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| [H]omer | I don't care about other proprietary software companies, like AutoDesk, for example, because AutoDesk do not attack the Free Software community. | Sep 05 18:33 |
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| schestowitz | It gives total control over the user who pays for it. | Sep 05 18:33 |
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| schestowitz | When you buy a car, the car does not control you. You can open up the bonnet. | Sep 05 18:33 |
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| [H]omer | Look at Adobe, for example. I wouldn't exactly call them Free Software evangelists, and yet they are friendly towards Linux. They are a business, and need to make money, but they do this without sabotaging the competition or attacking Free Software. | Sep 05 18:35 |
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| [H]omer | Only Microsoft do this | Sep 05 18:35 |
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| [H]omer | IBM *used* to be a culprit too | Sep 05 18:35 |
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| [H]omer | But now they've sided with Linux against Microsoft | Sep 05 18:36 |
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| Odd_Bloke | GNU/Linux. | Sep 05 18:36 |
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| [H]omer | Microsoft is the *only* threat | Sep 05 18:36 |
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| schestowitz | Odd_Bloke: IBM is odd with GNU | Sep 05 18:36 |
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| [H]omer | "Linux" shorthand/convenience. No disrespect to the FSF. | Sep 05 18:36 |
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| Odd_Bloke | In what way are they a threat? | Sep 05 18:36 |
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| schestowitz | IBM is behind the marketing group called Linux Foundation | Sep 05 18:37 |
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| schestowitz | But IBM helps FSF financially, I suspect | Sep 05 18:37 |
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| Odd_Bloke | Just acting threatening towards the free software community doesn't mean they are an actual threat. | Sep 05 18:37 |
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| schestowitz | Odd_Bloke: they bribe against it. | Sep 05 18:37 |
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| schestowitz | They do a lot more. | Sep 05 18:37 |
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| [H]omer | Roy, post the link to "Microsoft's dirty tricks" to show Odd_Bloke how Microsoft are a "threat". | Sep 05 18:37 |
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| schestowitz | Need you see examples? | Sep 05 18:37 |
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| Odd_Bloke | OK, that's acting threatening. | Sep 05 18:38 |
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| Odd_Bloke | We're a _community_, not a business. | Sep 05 18:38 |
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| schestowitz | There's no 'community'. Not in the usual sense.. | Sep 05 18:38 |
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| schestowitz | There's a sharing of goals and philosophy. | Sep 05 18:39 |
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| schestowitz | There are many 'communities' that are social groupings of programmers and such. | Sep 05 18:39 |
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| Odd_Bloke | OK, a confederation of communities then. | Sep 05 18:39 |
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| [H]omer | They coopted Novel, funded SCO against Linux, sabotaged the OLPC and Mandriva, called Linux a "cancer", made unfounded allegations of "235 patent" infringements, the list goes on. | Sep 05 18:39 |
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| [H]omer | Then their's the MSBBC iPlayer fiasco | Sep 05 18:39 |
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| schestowitz | I have 4005 posts in BN with many more examples. | Sep 05 18:39 |
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| schestowitz | A lot of their dirty laundry they do via proxies. | Sep 05 18:40 |
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| [H]omer | Shell companies like IP Innovation LLC | Sep 05 18:40 |
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| Odd_Bloke | So those are all irritating, but they aren't actual threats to the functioning of the confederation of communities. | Sep 05 18:40 |
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| [H]omer | "Irritating"? | Sep 05 18:40 |
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| Odd_Bloke | They aren't out to destroy free software qua free software, they're out to destroy free software qua competition, if you will. | Sep 05 18:41 |
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| [H]omer | It's thuggish and criminal | Sep 05 18:41 |
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| [H]omer | In a fair society they'd be shut down for racketeering | Sep 05 18:41 |
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| [H]omer | Look at the OEM scandal (proved by the DOJ) | Sep 05 18:41 |
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| Odd_Bloke | In a fair society, I suspect they wouldn't operate this way. | Sep 05 18:41 |
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| Odd_Bloke | Precisely because they would be shut down. | Sep 05 18:42 |
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| schestowitz | Odd_Bloke: what do you do about this? Support Novell/Mcirosoft SUSE? | Sep 05 18:42 |
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| [H]omer | Clandestine Memorandum of Understanding with OEMs to lock-out pre-installed Linux, the sabotage against Apple "knife the baby", sabotaging Netscape ... | Sep 05 18:42 |
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| schestowitz | By refusing to act upon it, you solve nothing and complicate things further. | Sep 05 18:43 |
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| [H]omer | I mean good God these people are gangsters, how can anyone not see that? | Sep 05 18:43 |
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| Odd_Bloke | I'm not refusing to act, I'm refusing to act in an identical manner to Boycott Novell. | Sep 05 18:43 |
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| Odd_Bloke | Which, incidentally, is fairly poorly named if "Microsoft is the *only* threat". | Sep 05 18:43 |
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| [H]omer | Name another threat then | Sep 05 18:44 |
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| schestowitz | Odd_Bloke: really? | Sep 05 18:44 |
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| [H]omer | <silence> | Sep 05 18:44 |
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| schestowitz | If I don't criticise Apple in BN (which I do in links), it's because the scope of the site must be limited. | Sep 05 18:44 |
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| Odd_Bloke | It's called Boycott _NOVELL_. €¬.€¬ | Sep 05 18:44 |
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| benJIman | Well boycottxandros.com goes to the same site. | Sep 05 18:45 |
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| [H]omer | "The friend of my enemy..." | Sep 05 18:45 |
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| [H]omer | Understand yet? | Sep 05 18:45 |
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| Odd_Bloke | Uhm, I understand perfectly. | Sep 05 18:45 |
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| Odd_Bloke | I _disagree_. | Sep 05 18:45 |
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| [H]omer | Why? | Sep 05 18:45 |
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| Odd_Bloke | Because regularly having a tantrum on your blog is not a productive way to bring down Microsoft. | Sep 05 18:46 |
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| Odd_Bloke | It's counter-productive. | Sep 05 18:46 |
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| [H]omer | How would you deal with Microsoft? Support them or fight them? | Sep 05 18:47 |
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| [H]omer | And how would you do it? | Sep 05 18:47 |
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| Odd_Bloke | You give them something to hold up to people in general, who are indifferent to the matter, and say, "Look, they're crazy." | Sep 05 18:47 |
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| Odd_Bloke | Because you're fucking crazy. | Sep 05 18:47 |
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| [H]omer | Then indifferent should remain indifferent ... elsewhere | Sep 05 18:47 |
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| [H]omer | I'm crazy for being outraged by Microsoft's thuggish behaviour? Why? | Sep 05 18:48 |
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| Odd_Bloke | You do not have the Platonic expression of outrage. | Sep 05 18:48 |
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| schestowitz | Odd_Bloke: if you don't fight back, you lose. | Sep 05 18:48 |
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| [H]omer | That's your mistaken inference | Sep 05 18:48 |
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| Odd_Bloke | This isn't fighting back! | Sep 05 18:48 |
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| [H]omer | Your opinion | Sep 05 18:49 |
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| Odd_Bloke | This is banging your fists on the floor and screaming, while feeling like you're doing something! | Sep 05 18:49 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft fight FOSS all the time (it's disguised behind fronts like BSA and CompTIA). Refuse to talk about it and you shall be devours. | Sep 05 18:49 |
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| schestowitz | *devoured | Sep 05 18:49 |
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| [H]omer | Spreading the truth is not a tantrum | Sep 05 18:49 |
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| Odd_Bloke | That's true, but irrelevant. | Sep 05 18:49 |
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| schestowitz | Can you counter $300 of Microsoft brainwash money? http://www.forbes.com/reuters/fe... | Sep 05 18:50 |
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| [H]omer | Ultimately there are those who care, those who don't, and those who oppose dissent. I'll keep stating my views in the *hope* that it makes a difference. Would you rather I was censored? | Sep 05 18:50 |
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| schestowitz | Do you know how much they bribe politicians? | Sep 05 18:50 |
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| schestowitz | (by bribe I mean "contributions" and "awards") | Sep 05 18:51 |
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| [H]omer | "Marketing assistance" | Sep 05 18:51 |
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| [H]omer | LOL | Sep 05 18:51 |
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| schestowitz | Bribe | Sep 05 18:51 |
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| [H]omer | Just like Sweden | Sep 05 18:51 |
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| schestowitz | They have many words for it. | Sep 05 18:51 |
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| [H]omer | Nigeria | Sep 05 18:51 |
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| schestowitz | Lobbying too. | Sep 05 18:51 |
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| [H]omer | Congress? | Sep 05 18:51 |
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| Odd_Bloke | [H]omer: I don't oppose dissent. | Sep 05 18:51 |
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| schestowitz | Like ACT ATL and other bribery houses that Zuck seems to be building for Microsoft. | Sep 05 18:52 |
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| schestowitz | It's a money funnel that goes all the way up. | Sep 05 18:52 |
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| Odd_Bloke | Blog posts are not dissent. | Sep 05 18:52 |
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| [H]omer | Odd_Bloke, sound like you do - you're trying to say I should shut up. | Sep 05 18:52 |
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| schestowitz | And again, I won't stop citing it: http://lessig.org/blog/2008/... | Sep 05 18:52 |
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| schestowitz | The system is corrupt. Treat it gently with apologism and you'll become a slave. | Sep 05 18:52 |
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| [H]omer | The world is full of sheeple. | Sep 05 18:52 |
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| Odd_Bloke | But you're not treating the system harshly. | Sep 05 18:53 |
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| Odd_Bloke | You're just talking about the system. | Sep 05 18:53 |
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| Odd_Bloke | It's not _doing_ anything. | Sep 05 18:53 |
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| schestowitz | ? | Sep 05 18:53 |
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| [H]omer | What other power do I have? | Sep 05 18:53 |
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| [H]omer | But the voice of dissent? | Sep 05 18:53 |
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| schestowitz | Can I bribe the cronies? | Sep 05 18:53 |
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| schestowitz | Can I prevent them from receiving brives in procurement?> | Sep 05 18:54 |
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| schestowitz | Speaking of which, Novell bribes too. | Sep 05 18:54 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.accessmylibrary.... | Sep 05 18:55 |
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| schestowitz | "The new chief of technology at the state Department of Children & Families resigned late Tuesday after agency officials learned he had been faulted by officials at a previous job in Ohio for accepting gifts from a technology company that had won a $1.9 million contract. | Sep 05 18:55 |
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| schestowitz | " | Sep 05 18:55 |
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| schestowitz | "John R. Hurd was also criticized in a separate investigation by the Ohio Inspector General’s Office for appearing in several advertisements for the company, Novell, and allowing the company to run endorsements by him on its website." | Sep 05 18:55 |
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| [H]omer | I could steal money from people with racketeering, then use that to bribe congress into changing the system ... just like Microsoft does. But I'm not built that way. I'd rather use the democratic process to speak out. | Sep 05 18:55 |
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| Odd_Bloke | When was the last time you wrote to your congress(wo)man, senator, MP, ...? | Sep 05 18:55 |
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| benJIman | Have you written to your local MP/MoC ? | Sep 05 18:56 |
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| benJIman | Heh. | Sep 05 18:56 |
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| [H]omer | Every other week | Sep 05 18:56 |
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| [H]omer | Most recently about iPlayer | Sep 05 18:56 |
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| Odd_Bloke | [H]omer: You're British? | Sep 05 18:56 |
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| [H]omer | Yes | Sep 05 18:56 |
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| Odd_Bloke | Cool. | Sep 05 18:56 |
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| [H]omer | I used congress as an example (assume American on the Net) | Sep 05 18:56 |
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| [H]omer | I also signed various petitions on the PM's Website | Sep 05 18:57 |
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| *schestowitz signs many petitions | Sep 05 18:57 |
| [H]omer | And spoke out against Donald Trump's "plans" to destroy an area of SSI in Aberdeenshire | Sep 05 18:57 |
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| [H]omer | I am very much an "activist", and I *hope* I do make a difference. I am not a sheeple. | Sep 05 18:58 |
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| [H]omer | And yes I'm bloody angry. | Sep 05 18:59 |
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| [H]omer | I have a right. | Sep 05 18:59 |
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| [H]omer | I have the right to Free Speech | Sep 05 18:59 |
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| [H]omer | I'm exercising that right. | Sep 05 18:59 |
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| schestowitz | You're' dissenting'. | Sep 05 18:59 |
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| schestowitz | :-) | Sep 05 18:59 |
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| [H]omer | I'll fight Microsoft to my dying breath. | Sep 05 18:59 |
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| [H]omer | Or their's ... whichever comes first | Sep 05 19:00 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft is not alone thought. | Sep 05 19:00 |
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| Odd_Bloke | "Microsoft is the *only* threat". | Sep 05 19:00 |
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| schestowitz | The nproblem is that there's a leftover of Gateocrats who keep the wealth flowing among the clique. | Sep 05 19:00 |
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| [H]omer | *only* threat to *IT* | Sep 05 19:01 |
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| schestowitz | To FOSS, not IT | Sep 05 19:01 |
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| [H]omer | There are threats in other areas of society | Sep 05 19:01 |
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| Odd_Bloke | OK, I take your point. | Sep 05 19:01 |
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| schestowitz | Apple could rise to be a threat to IT as it is to other things like copyrights monopoly 'industry' | Sep 05 19:01 |
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| schestowitz | The main issue is broader. | Sep 05 19:01 |
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| schestowitz | Sharing of knowledge for starters. | Sep 05 19:02 |
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| [H]omer | Actually no ... *IT*. Microsoft are even a threat to standards; other companies, and even their own partners (PlaysForSure). | Sep 05 19:02 |
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| schestowitz | RMS does too recognises that sharing is key and education is a route to means. | Sep 05 19:02 |
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| schestowitz | Hogging culture is blamed not only for bribes but also for endless pursuit for power (=wealth) | Sep 05 19:02 |
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| schestowitz | And objestively speaking, the gap between poor and rich widens. | Sep 05 19:03 |
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| [H]omer | I have to go eat. Back in about an hour. | Sep 05 19:03 |
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| *[H]omer is away: sleep beer sleep beer sleep | Sep 05 19:03 |
| schestowitz | FOSS was born as a partly political movement in the sense that engineers want their machines to serve /them/, not other masters | Sep 05 19:03 |
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| schestowitz | Geez. They attack Fry now? http://www.itpro.co.uk/605877/step... ( Stephen Fry celebrates open source, attacks Microsoft and Apple ) | Sep 05 19:22 |
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| schestowitz | it's just like those attacks on Stallman after he had criticised Microsoft in the MSBBC) | Sep 05 19:22 |
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| schestowitz | seller_liar: just found this one which you might want to see: http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/hprw/... | Sep 05 19:23 |
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| schestowitz | "Brazil, Sept. 2 /PRNewswire-HISPANIC PR WIRE/ -- BuscaPe.com Group ( http://www.buscape.com ), which is owner of the largest Comparison Shopping Network in Latin America..." More media control, of which you can find plenty, but this one is different (service). Nonetheless, there's money on the table, which can affect editorial bias. | Sep 05 19:24 |
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| Odd_Bloke | schestowitz: How is that an attack on Stephen Fry? | Sep 05 19:24 |
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| schestowitz | Read it. | Sep 05 19:24 |
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| schestowitz | The headline | Sep 05 19:25 |
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| Odd_Bloke | Just did. | Sep 05 19:25 |
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| schestowitz | I wrote about it a week ago (headline massaging): http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/... | Sep 05 19:25 |
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| Odd_Bloke | I should probably watch the video as well. | Sep 05 19:25 |
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| Odd_Bloke | BRB. | Sep 05 19:25 |
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| Odd_Bloke | OK, my connection is too slow to stream it. | Sep 05 19:26 |
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| schestowitz | I notice that Paul Krill is still boosting some Microsoft (there's discomforting history there): http://www.infoworld.com/article/... | Sep 05 19:27 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: thanks roy, i will read | Sep 05 19:28 |
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| schestowitz | More Microsoft investments in broadcasting (=possible bias): Microsoft to be among 13 investors in NHK satellite channel ( http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor... ) | Sep 05 19:35 |
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| schestowitz | FUDMesiter Hauser: "More recently Hauser played a strategic role on Microsoft’s Law and Corporate Affairs, Intellectual Property Leadership team where she worked on Microsoft’s relationship with Novell and its efforts on interoperability. She was instrumental role in developing Microsoft’s first Interop Executive Customer Council with 45 worldwide CIO’s across commercial and public sector customers, added Scott." | Sep 05 19:38 |
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| schestowitz | http://blogs.bankingtech.com/blo... | Sep 05 19:38 |
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| schestowitz | More information about the media investment: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-10032493-75.html ( Microsoft and 12 others invest in Japanese TV ) | Sep 05 19:41 |
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| seller_liar | drm in NHK? | Sep 05 19:49 |
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| seller_liar | Is Nhk public? | Sep 05 19:50 |
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| schestowitz | I'm not sure. I haven't chekced. | Sep 05 19:54 |
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| schestowitz | The power of manipulation: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_stor... | Sep 05 20:03 |
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| schestowitz | A stranger has just E-mailed me this: "taking clues from the fsf movement and reading behind the lifes of linus and rms. http://thebookonlife.googlepages.com its just 21 pages." it's amazing how much work is being put into writing that's rarely published. | Sep 05 20:08 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: thanks roy | Sep 05 20:08 |
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| schestowitz | Gates/Davis 'forgets' Adobe :-S http://news.zdnet.com/2424-9595_22-219799.html (seems like usual Zeedee fluff) | Sep 05 20:09 |
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| schestowitz | Other notice this too: http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-9... | Sep 05 20:10 |
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| schestowitz | "I don't get it... Flash is ubiquitous.. it's on almost every PC out there and has a huge developer base behind it, yet these people are implying Silverlight is THE platform to beat. What does Silverlight have that Flash doesn't (besides a huge bankroll behind it and some very green developers)?" | Sep 05 20:10 |
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| schestowitz | Even gary Edwards weighed in: http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208... | Sep 05 20:11 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: why people do not use java fx | Sep 05 20:11 |
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| schestowitz | It's not being hyped by shills. | Sep 05 20:12 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft has known boosters in ZDNET | Sep 05 20:12 |
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| schestowitz | I caught one here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/... | Sep 05 20:12 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/... 'The author of the email, posted on ZDNet in a Talkback forum on the Microsoft antitrust trial, claimed her name was Michelle Bradley and that she had “retired” from Microsoft last week. “A verbal memo [no email allowed] was passed around the MS campus encouraging MS employee’s to post to ZDNet articles like this one,” the email said.' | Sep 05 20:13 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: lobo have native java Fx | Sep 05 20:19 |
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| schestowitz | Lobo? | Sep 05 20:22 |
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| seller_liar | http://lobobrowser.org/ | Sep 05 20:25 |
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| schestowitz | They should do that at Mozilla too perhaps, just as they do with Ogg. JavaFX is GPLv2-ed | Sep 05 20:25 |
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| seller_liar | yes | Sep 05 20:26 |
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| schestowitz | "Wow, a tough day for Windows. BusinessWeek reports that HP, the world’s biggest PC company, is so troubled by Vista’s ‘tepid reception’ and Apple’s resurgence that it is developing its own operating system. Meanwhile a New York Times columnist writes on his blog that Windows is “already dying a death by a thousand cuts.”" | Sep 05 20:27 |
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| schestowitz | http://blogs.zdnet.com/computers/?p=219 | Sep 05 20:28 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.businessweek.com/techn... | Sep 05 20:28 |
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| schestowitz | "Others in HP's PC division are exploring the possibility of building an HP operating system for mainstream desktop and notebook computers based on the open-source Linux system, which competes with Windows, say people familiar with the company's plans." | Sep 05 20:28 |
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| seller_liar | aix?! | Sep 05 20:28 |
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| seller_liar | no , hp-ux?! | Sep 05 20:28 |
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| Odd_Bloke | seller_liar: "which competes with Windows"? :p | Sep 05 20:31 |
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| seller_liar | Odd_Bloke: I know | Sep 05 20:31 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: hp chances are very low | Sep 05 20:32 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: strange.... | Sep 05 20:33 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, I know. I wrote about their strong tie with Microsoft this morning. | Sep 05 20:33 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: my friend was trying to running virtual box in your computer ,and then | Sep 05 20:34 |
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| schestowitz | The almost-criminal former CEO is now helping McCain (and his interests) | Sep 05 20:34 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: virtualbox did not pass in certification tests!!! | Sep 05 20:34 |
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| schestowitz | McCain is surrounded by the likes of Microsoft, which he openly /supports/. | Sep 05 20:34 |
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| schestowitz | Bray on post 3000: "And inside Sun software, the hottest creative energies are going into JavaFX (unfortunately, I just don’t get whole RIA thing) and OpenSolaris’ IPS (unfortunately, I’m a packaging moron) and multi-language NetBeans (they don’t need much help... well, I do report bugs). I’m internally pushing some ideas that I think could be impactful; but it feels like an in-between time." ( http://www.tbray.org/ongoin | Sep 05 20:36 |
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| schestowitz | g/When/200x/2008/09/05/Three-Thousand-and-One ) | Sep 05 20:36 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.tbray.org/ongo... | Sep 05 20:36 |
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| schestowitz | seller_liar: Sun's xVM, AKA VirtualBox 2.0, what certification is it? Sun was bragging about standards adherence yesterday, on the same day as the xVM (desktop) announcement | Sep 05 20:37 |
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| seller_liar | schestowitz: my friend did not give more information for me, but m$ does not permit to install neither vbox 2 and 1.6 | Sep 05 20:38 |
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| schestowitz | There's another issue I'll write about later: http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index... (probably Maritz, which sells out to his former employer, partner of 'father' EMC) | Sep 05 20:39 |
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| schestowitz | http://standardsandfreedom.net/index... "Yo do what they want you yo do. You spread the brainwash." | Sep 05 20:48 |
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| schestowitz | There are so many people even in the FOSS community that play along with Microsoft's Viral Advertising campaign, which is unfortunate. | Sep 05 20:49 |
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| MinceR | benJIman: i don't post articles because i don't have time to write them. | Sep 05 21:13 |
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| MinceR | also, i'm not really a writer. | Sep 05 21:13 |
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| schestowitz | Nice username for a puppet: Path: border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.gigan ews.com!newsfeeder.ewetel.de!ecngs!feeder 2.ecngs.de!peer1.news.newnet.co.uk!194.159 .246.34.MISMATCH!peer-uk.news.demon. net!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.u k!demon!ellandroad.demon.c o.uk!not-for-mail | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | Message-ID: <4498071.XgFttn5xIF@schestowitz.com> | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | From: Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | Subject: [News] GNU/Linux Fest in Atlanta and Many More Conferences Coming | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2008 13:56:02 +0000 | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | Lines: 158 | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | NNTP-Posting-Host: ellandroad.demon.co.uk | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | Mime-Version: 1.0 | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8Bit | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1220450642 22322 80.177.9.133 (3 Sep 2008 14:04:02 GMT) | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 14:04:02 +0000 (UTC) | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | X-Face: .dYWu:H1\ 3ib`=T*Zoi9{>C].hHmdJ #z~":dJ5pFYAC`jJ6 I~pf</F~#Sp(\[J6OgtE BO"[ @'u^%Ia#bVQ hL%Cw#^nU FCIAEjS=M(B6B'& gt;OUrp)Y"ZY}Z\Y ~`g#I,JSw?7"3& amp;Fctfk^)\]8{j[7 )M Nj%-#0a}S+ *8oFlP^l,>&Y^1yhEYGz7>sv*' OuW}a9Oq}:<Ra*`;',O G@O=wj0mp'{Q |hbDm&yS-#r m;DM)4S$!IX22Ou)-Y ^lh[pu6VX8Dh0dG &Fv[54aJZeX*L AV]2w9wSR15 | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | X-Priority: 3 | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | X-Homepage: http://schestowitz.com | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | User-Agent: KNode/0.10.9 | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | X-War: No, thank you | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | X-OpenPGP: id=74572E8E; url=http://schestowitz.com/PGP | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | Bytes: 6851 | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | Xref: ellandroad.demon.co.uk comp.os.linux.advocacy:685769 | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | Message was signed by Roy Schestowitz <sch@danielsorogon.com> (Key ID: 0x74572E8E). | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | The signature is valid and the key is ultimately trusted. | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | Atlanta Linux Fest 2008 | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | ,----[ Quote ] | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | | On Saturday, September 20th, 2008, the Atlanta Linux Fest will be the place | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | | to learn, discuss, and discover Linux. There will be demos of various | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | | distributions, as well as an install fest for new users to try out Live CDs | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | | and get help with Linux installations. | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | `---- | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.linuxpr.com/releases/10847.html | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | http://atlantalinuxfest.org/ | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | Upcoming open source & web conferences | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | ,----[ Quote ] | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | | -Zend confere | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | Blech. | Sep 05 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | Nice username for a puppet: http://www.fsdaily.com/users/boycottboycottnovell.com (They are gaming FSDaily again) | Sep 05 23:05 |
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| *MinceR proposes boycottboycottboycottnovell.com | Sep 05 23:24 |
| schestowitz | 1.. 2.. 3... oh yeah, many negatives, I guess. Either way, they seem to be playing that site again, just like they did before when there was a 'revolt' | Sep 05 23:26 |
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