Bonum Certa Men Certa

Antitrust: How Microsoft Schemed to Derail Dell GNU/Linux

Dell monitor logo



IT'S NOT UNCOMMON to state the obvious, but concrete proof can make all the difference in the world, especially in court. As we've already shown, Microsoft's strategy has less to do with self improvement & development but more to do with targeted sabotage against attempts of competitors to... well, just to compete. Much like a totalitarian regime, Microsoft spots areas of friction and addresses them before they become uncontrollable; If not by force, then by brainwash [1, 2, 3, 4, 5] (control the minds to avoid direct and out-of-hand confrontations).



“Much like a totalitarian regime, Microsoft spots areas of friction and addresses them before they become uncontrollable...”Last week we gave evidence of this strategy occurring at Wal-Mart and this week we share antitrust material which shows how Microsoft reacted to GNU/Linux at Dell .

Exhibit px09280 (2002) [PDF] from Comes vs Microsoft contains correspondence between Microsoft seniors Bill Veghte and Paul Flessner (the guy who said "we should whack [Dell over GNU/Linux dealings], we should make sure they understand our value").

They swap opinions and plans with Windows executives like Brian Valentine and Jim Allchin [1, 2, 3] in the background, in addition to anti-Linux characters like Orlando Ayala [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6], even some of today's chiefs like Craig Mundie and Bob Muglia.

The subject of the messages is "Goldman Sachs Linux Panel." The Goldman Sachs Group is close to Microsoft and also a shareholder, it is backer of PSI and EDGI taker too. Here are some bits of interest. The text, in full, is appended below.

Bill Veghte writes:

It's not $50 of margin for Dell. It will get passed directly back to the customer and they are stuck with the same margin they have today. That is what happened on the desktop any time we made pricing changes broadly with OEMs and that is what will happen on the server (it is already happening on Linux pricing). It is just a fact.


Bill Veghte also writes:

Let's start by articulating Dell's perspective relative to the comments Russ made... Linux is Unix on x86. Dell sees it as the cheapest way to convert Unix LOB servers to being Dell customers. Dell sees no partnership with us on databases and partnership with Oracle as a way of pushing further into the enterprise. Oracle sees partnership with Dell and Linux as a great way at going after us at the lower end of the database market. Dell sees Linux as great negotiating leverage in their relationship with us.

[...]

Now, lets interject what I am asking into the picture.... We invest big, big $$ in Dell. We will continue to invest big, big $$ in Dell. I am asking that we do this investment with our eyes wide open. I do not want to invest $$ in Dell to fund their Red Hat efforts. I am asking that: a) we be quite prescriptive in our investments with Dell relative to the competitive threats we see with Linux b) we constantly benchmark ourselves against the actions they do with RedHat


Paul Flessner writes:

Now -- there is nothing to disagree with me on around what we should do. We should whack them, we should make sure they understand our value, we should do all of the things you and Brian suggest. I totally agree.

In the end, if I were them, I would do all I could to see Linux succeed because it would put $50/pc(or whatever our OEM license costs) back into my pocket. Sure Windows has greater value and lower TCO and all of that. I would keep my relationship with MS and customers and do the dance. But every chance I get I would invest in Linux and try to make more sales on Linux because I increase my margin by $50/pc. It is an advantage for Linux.


Bill Veghte replies:

Dell's behavior is predicated on us not acting in response to their actions. I want them to understand that every day they lead with Linux over Windows in Unix migrations they turn our field against them (take the southeast region mail thread as an example). I want them to think very very carefully about when and which forums they decide to push Linux very, very hard. Today, they do not. When they do, you can bet, behavior will evolve.


Veghte also expresses this concern:

He said their basic strategy is around open standard systems of which there are two; Linux and Windows. He said Windows three times during the whole discussion (it was a Linux panel tho) and then proceeded to push Linux very hard, never mentioning Windows. Ironically, the guy on the panel that was most balanced in their comments was the CTO of the BEA.


He wrote in the briefing:

Russ Holt (Server VP) was there representing Dell. He was introduced as the man behind Dell's Linux strategy and the guy driving the Linux initiative at Dell. He started off by saying, Dell is the #1 OEM distributor of Linux and they are committed to seeing that position grow. He said that he believed Linux was ready for the enterprise and as way of evidence said Dell was a significant customer of RedHat and runs it on key mission critical environments; specifically their order entry system. He said he was seeing growth not only in the "traditional" areas of web & f/p but also web, Unix LOB and HPC. He then talked about how good the Oracle/Linux solution was and the strong partnership they had with Oracle around Linux. Later when he was asked about the open source development model he said he saw significant advantages to it because it enabled much closer interactions and synergy with RedHat.

[...]

Every other panelist underscored (a) that Linux was ready for prime-time in the enterprise, and (b) they were committing significant resources and product to make it even more so.


To summarise, Dell supported GNU/Linux, several companies praised the platform, and Microsoft pumped money into Dell, potentially in attempt to pressure it out of GNU/Linux.




Appendix: Comes vs. Microsoft - exhibit px09280, as text








From:       Bill Veghte

Sent:       Saturday, November 09, 2002 9:59 AM

To:           Paul Flessner

Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel


It's not $50 of margin for Dell.  It will get passed directly back to the customer and they are stuck with the same margin they have today.  That is what happened on the desktop any time we made pricing changes broadly with OEMs and that is what will happen on the server (it is already happening on Linux pricing).  It is just a fact.



---- Original Message ----
From:     Paul Flessner
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 9:02AM
To:    Bill Veghte
Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel

I would go for the $50 pts of margin.  You need to think more broadly.  All you say is true but my statement is true as well. It is just fact.

---- Original Message ----
From: Bill Veghte
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 8:08AM
To: Paul Flessner; Bob Kelly
Cc: Brian Valentine; Jim Allchin; Rodrigo Costa; Kevin Johnson; Jim Allchin; Rick Wong; Orlando Ayala; Craig Mundie; Bob Muglia; Gordon Mangione; Andrew Lees   
Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel

Sigh....Yes, I can disagree with your statement that Dell's behavior won't change.  If it won't change, then we should just throw in the towel and settle for %50 market share at best.  We will change Dell's behavior by thinking thru their motivations and opportunities and being very creative.

Let's start by articulating Dell's perspective relative to the comments Russ made...  Linux is Unix on x86.  Dell sees it as the cheapest way to convert Unix LOB servers to being Dell customers.  Dell sees no partnership with us on databases and partnership with Oracle as a way of pushing further into the enterprise.  Oracle sees partnership with Dell and Linux as a great way at going after us at the lower end of the database market.  Dell sees Linux as great negotiating leverage in their relationship with us.

All of these things are reality.  Given these realities, lets add our perspective to the picture.  If I am Michael Dell, I have to believe that my #1 competitor long term is IBM.  Dell has to decide what their competitive strategy is going to be against IBM.  If they are going to compete with IBM and it services driven organization, they are a) going to have to build a strong relationship with our field and service partners, b) they are going to have to bet on our engineering engine as their primary innovation machine.  That means a close partnership with us.  They need to understand that with the passage of time Linux and IBM become more and more equivalent.

Now, lets interject what I am asking into the picture.... We invest big, big $$ in Dell.  We will continue to invest big, big $$ in Dell.  I am asking that we do this investment with our eyes wide open.  I do not want to invest $$ in Dell to fund their Red Hat efforts.  I am asking that:
a)  we be quite prescriptive in our investments with Dell relative to the competitive threats we see with Linux
b)  we constantly benchmark ourselves against the actions they do with RedHat


4/6/2005

Plaintiff's Exhibit
9280
Comes V Microsoft

MS-CC-RN 000000982974
HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL




This is an engineering statement, this is a marketing statement, this is a field statement.

---- Original Message ----
From: Paul Flessner
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 7:13AM
To: Bill Veghte; Bob Kelly
Cc: Brian Valentine; Jim Allchin; Rodrigo Costa; Kevin Johnson; Jim Allchin; Rick Wong; Orlando Ayala; Craig Mundie; Bob Muglia; Gordon Mangione; Andrew Lees   
Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel

You can't disagree with my statement.  It is fact.  It is capitalism, like gravity.

Now -- there is nothing to disagree with me on around what we should do.  We should whack them, we should make sure they understand our value, we should do all of the things you and Brian suggest.  I totally agree.

In the end, if I were them, I would do all I could to see Linux succeed because it would put $50/pc(or whatever our OEM license costs) back into my pocket.  Sure Windows has greater value and lower TCO and all of that.  I would keep my relationship with MS and customers and do the dance.  But every chance I get I would invest in Linux and try to make more sales on Linux because I increase my margin by $50/pc.  It is an advantage for Linux.

Where are our advantages?  This is a productive discussion.

This is just life.  I am not giving up.  I don't have a Penguin in my basement.  I LOVE Windows which is why I want us to face this so we can figure it out.

The sooner we recognize it the sooner we can get our heads around it and decide how to go after it.

---- Original Message ----
From: Bill Veghte
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 6:44 PM
To: Paul Flessner; Brian Valentine; Rodrigo Costa; Kevin Johnson; Jim Allchin; Rick Wong; Orlando Ayala; Craig Mundie;
Cc: Bob Muglia; Gordon Mangione; Bob Kelly; Andrew Lees   
Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel

Boy do I respectfully disagree with the statement "Dell's behavior is predictable and won't change...

Dell's behavior is predicated on us not acting in response to their actions.  I want them to understand that every day they lead with Linux over Windows in Unix migrations they turn our field against them (take the southeast region mail thread as an example).  I want them to think very very carefully about when and which forums they decide to push Linux very, very hard.  Today, they do not.  When they do, you can bet, behavior will evolve.

I think there are two very specific actions:
---> alignment in the field pushing Dell on the one that they are going to be most uncomfortabe with... Unix app migration (Kevin & Joe Marengi)
---> Clarity and metrics around Windows Server vs. Redhat in marketing and technology (product group and OEM group)

To Rick's last email on this thread around actions, I want to be careful we don't personalize it with Russ because I want to win him back but the key to that is thru Joe.

4/6/2005

MS-CC-RN 000000982975
HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL




---- Original Message ----
From: Paul Flessner
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 9:07AM
To: Bill Veghte; Brian Valentine; Rodrigo Costa; Kevin Johnson; Jim Allchin; Rick Wong; Orlando Ayala; Craig Mundie;
Cc: Bob Muglia; Gordon Mangione; Bob Kelly; Andrew Lees   
Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel


The obvious but:  Dell is a HW company.  They are facing tremendous margin pressure in a commodity market.  If you are Dell you are being forced to squeeze every dollar out of the business you can to survive.  Given that situation you would be looking hard at that MS OEM payment.

Think back to Jim Cash's talk this week.  These guys are living that situation.

I don't have the answer here but Dell's behavior is predictable and it won't change.

---- Original Message ----
From: Bill Veghte 
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 7:55AM
To: Paul Flessner; Brian Valentine; Rodrigo Costa; Kevin Johnson; Jim Allchin; Rick Wong; Orlando Ayala; Craig Mundie;
Cc: Bob Muglia; Gordon Mangione; Bob Kelly; Andrew Lees   
Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel

I was sitting right across the panel from him.  We waved at each other briefly before the panel started.

He said their basic strategy is around open standard systems of which there are two; Linux and Windows.  He said Windows three times during the whole discussion (it was a Linux panel tho) and then proceeded to push Linux very hard, never mentioning Windows.  Ironically, the guy on the panel that was most balanced in their comments was the CTO of the BEA.

Dell is and must continue to be a partner with us but we need to be very aggressive in comparing our position and their investment in RedHat.

---- Original Message ----
From: Brian Valentine 
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 10:27PM
To: Bill Veghte; Rodrigo Costa; Kevin Johnson; Paul Flessner; Jim Allchin; Rick Wong; Orlando Ayala; Craig Mundie;
Cc: Bob Muglia; Gordon Mangione; Bob Kelly; Andrew Lees   
Subject: RE: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel

Did Russ Holt know you were there?  I can't imagine he would be this blatant against us if he knew you were there.  If he knew and he is really doing this, then we have some serious thinking to do around this relationship.

---- Original Message ----
From: Bill Veghte 
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 10:27PM
To: Rodrigo Costa; Kevin Johnson; Paul Flessner; Jim Allchin; Brian Valentine; Rick Wong; Orlando Ayala; Craig

4/6/2005

MS-CC-RN 000000982976
HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL




Mundie
Cc: Bob Muglia; Gordon Mangione; Bob Kelly; Andrew Lees
Subject: Goldman Sachs Linux Panel

I was down at Goldman SW conference earlier this week doing a keynote and on the agenda there was a panel discussion on Linux after me so I asked to participate.  The panel consisted of CFO of RedHat, VPs from Oracle, BMG, BEA, Veritas and Dell.  It turned into quite a lively discussion as you can imagine.  Couple quick notes...

Dell & Linux:
Each company's position was quite predictably slamming us but the one that really got me animated was Dell.  Russ Holt (Server VP) was there representing Dell.  He was introduced as the man behind Dell's Linux strategy and the guy driving the Linux initiative at Dell.  He started off by saying, Dell is the #1 OEM distributor of Linux and they are committed to seeing that position grow.  He said that he believed Linux was ready for the enterprise and as way of evidence said Dell was a significant customer of RedHat and runs it on key mission critical environments; specifically their order entry system.  He said he was seeing growth not only in the "traditional" areas of web & f/p but also web, Unix LOB and HPC.  He then talked about how good the Oracle/Linux solution was and the strong partnership they had with Oracle around Linux.  Later when he was asked about the open source development model he said he saw significant advantages to it because it enabled much closer interactions and synergy with RedHat.

I spoke to Rick Wong about today but we need to make darn certain that our investments with Dell are benchmarked against any investments they make in RedHat.  The majority of their business is on Windows and their marketing, their website, and their investment should reflect this or we should call them on it.  Same goes for things like sales training or events.  When we do events, field engagement and measure our progress it should be benchmarked against the results and/or what they are doing with RedHat.  Dell is a key partner for us and one that imho will grow in significance in the coming years so it is a tricky balance but one that we need to be more aggressive around.

Linux & the enterprise:

This was the focus.  RedHat CFO spent his entire time talking about how their entire focus was Linux in the enterprise and all the things that they were doing to make it enterprise ready.  He then went on and on around the certification and testing programs that they had put in place and the partnerships they were building with companies like IBM, Dell, Oracle, Veritas, BMC, BEA etc.. Every other panelist underscored (a) that Linux was ready for prime-time in the enterprise, and (b) they were committing significant resources and product to make it even more so.

Linux Development Model:
Each of the panelists talked about the interaction with RedHat and the community development model as a real highlight for them.  They all talked about how it made it easier to impact the direction of the platform (including Dell ironically) and how transparent the whole process was.

4/6/2005

MS-CC-RN 000000982977
HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL

Comments

Recent Techrights' Posts

Confirmed: Microsoft Layoffs Come in Two Waves, Just Like Last Summer
To us, what stands out is the admission from Microsoft that there are two (or more) waves
Links 06/07/2026: Artists Reject Slop (or Even de Facto Bribes to Market/Endorse Slop)
Links for the day
The Media Needs to Speak of Slop as a Climate Issue Like It Did With Bitcoin
But the slop industry keeps paying the media to play along with the hype
XBox is Practically 'Dead Man Walking' at This Point
writings on the wall
 
Links 06/07/2026: At Least 20% Staff Reduction in XBox (Microsoft), Taiwan Sees Uptick in Chinese Aggression/Provocation, Senator Rodante Marcoleta Arrested
Links for the day
In Praise of the UK's Stance on Free Speech (but Some Reservations)
At the moment there is a healthy discussion going on with the objective of disrupting attacks on British press
Exposing Corruption at the European Patent Office (EPO), a Call for More Whistleblowers
We predict that, provided enough whistleblowers speak out, António "the unready" won't even finish his current term
Leaving Our Pets for Several Days
This week our pets will be worried that "mommy and daddy" are away
Dating Trees and Dating 'Apps'
several high-profile stories in the news about scandals in "dating apps"
DW Documentary About Julian Assange Turns 2
It was released just days after Assange had turned 53 and about two weeks after he had left the UK
Independent Media is the Only Form of Legitimate Media
Independent media is, indeed, what we need to demand more of
The Story of the European Patent Office (EPO) Wagging the Dog (EU)
The aim of the series is to properly inform the world - not just Europeans - how Europe's second-largest institution is run [...] How did a corporate hub of monopolies become so detached from the Rule of Law?
GNU/Linux Up to New High in Libya, Windows Down to All-Time Low
GNU/Linux touches 5% there, based on statCounter
SLAPP Censorship - Part 129 Out of 200: Iranian Tactics
Hunger for revenge compels people to do overzealous, irrational things
Quiet Week
Many in the US are still enjoying an extended weekend
IBM's Fall
IBM's fate is closely connected to that of the Free software movement because of the salaries
Social Dialogue at the European Patent Office (EPO) is Dead, the Strikes and Work Stoppage-Like Actions Carry on
What next for the EPO?
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Sunday, July 05, 2026
IRC logs for Sunday, July 05, 2026
Links 05/07/2026: Shadows of the Upper Peninsula and 2026 Old Computer Challenge
Links for the day
Not Everything Should be Electric
technology has become detrimental to society
Gemini Links 05/07/2026: Eye of the Beholder and Baldur’s Gate 3 and Alhena 5.6.5
Links for the day
GNU/Linux Market Share is Already High
GNU/Linux has fast become and is still becoming mainstream in recent years
The 9-Step IBM Algorithm: Gaming Wall Street While Shedding Off Staff and Bribing the Mainstream Media to Play Along
Any time IBM preaches manners (e.g. CoC) to the community remember that IBM works closely with and flatters the dictator
They Could Never Kill the Ideas of Richard Stallman (RMS), But They Are Still Trying
Killing an idea is harder than killing a person and killing a person is illegal
Only Germany Objected to Salary Adjustment (Reduction) Procedure of "Team Campinos"
"flash report on the Administrative Council of 30 June and 1 July 2026"
A "Never Slop" Policy in Quibble
"every change in the repository must be made by a human"
Series on GNU/Linux in Japan
This series can last a week or longer
75% of All the Patents Last Year Were Software
The corporate media has more or less ceased to discuss this matter
At Microsoft "the Morale of Developers is at an All-time Low"
Numerous reports today say that after at least 5 studios got marked for shutdown (mothballing) by Microsoft there are rumours about Obsidian as well
Links 05/07/2026: Data Breaches, Heat Waves, and Weinstein Rape Conviction Upheld
Links for the day
Confidentiality at Risk With Slop 'Coding'
People who continue to cheer for slop aren't just misguided fanbis and fangurls
False Narratives of Slop "Efficiency" as Debt Climbs
false stories about slop
July 8 as "D-Day" for Microsoft, Mass Layoffs Planned
Microsoft's grip on the market has slipped for a long time
GNU/Linux Leaps to 6% in Thailand
Can we expect 10% by year's end?
SLAPP Censorship - Part 128 Out of 200: Making Laws Work for Britain, Not Oversensitive Americans Looking for 'Revenge' by Lawfare
The SLAPPs are intended to protect corporations (employers like Microsoft)
EC Looking for Input on Digital Networks Act Until Next Month
New initiative
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Saturday, July 04, 2026
IRC logs for Saturday, July 04, 2026
Gemini Links 05/07/2026: Ragebaited and Removing Lines in Emacs
Links for the day
Links 05/07/2026: "Tesla Slams Into Crowded Cafe" and "ChatGPT [Turned] Into a Sociopath"
Links for the day
BRICS and Windows: All-Time Lows
Expect many more Microsoft layoffs in years to come
Do No Evil, Do Not DDoS
Sites that attract DDoS attacks because of their message are sites that are difficult to debunk or debate
France is Winning the Race Against Windows
France instructs, then orders, government agencies to adopt GNU/Linux
Not 2.5% and Not 2.5 Billion Dollars for "Hey Hi"; 2 Waves of Microsoft Layoffs Rumoured This Month, July 8th, Then July 22nd (Just Before 'Results')
People there join unions, knowing they will be terminated silently or otherwise
Microsoft Double Trouble With Slop
What does Microsoft even sell at this point?
Based on US Government Sites, GNU/Linux Has Reached About 8% "Market Share" in Desktops/Laptops
Culled to exclude mobile platforms, GNU/Linux would likely be above 8%
TheLayoff.com is Deleting Comments About IBM Offshoring
Meanwhile, rage-baiting Internet trolls and sometimes trolls who paste in LLM slop are immune from censorship
American Independence Needs Independent Media
The American regime's hostility towards media is an international problem
Techrights Was Always a Community Platform
Techrights is about whistleblowers
Phenomenal Growth for GNU/Linux in Afghanistan
This is impressive because for many years it was registered at near 0%
Daniel Pocock Pursuing Complaint in the United States Against Software in the Public Interest (SPI) et al
It seems like the only people who don't support him are those whom he criticises
Gemini Links 04/07/2026: Busy Squirrel, Independence Day Celebrations, PalmOS Programming
Links for the day
Canonical/Ubuntu is Breaking CP (cp) to Help Microsoft Turn Coreutils Into Proprietary Software for Windows
What we could do reliably in the 1970s (before GNU) we cannot do in 2026?
Brett Wilson LLP is Downsizing, Apparently Closing Down the Oversized and Overpriced Office
Address changed 13 hours ago
Free Software Has No Kings or CEOs
The kingdom is a cross-border phenomenon, so national flags and other such symbolism overlook the core problem [...] Free Software can help lead us out of the current imbalances
The United States Lost Freedom of Speech
independence refers to a condition, not an activity
IBM Replacing the People Who Built IBM With Cheaper and Younger Staff, According to IBM Insiders
This is a very common sentiment in IBM
For USA 250 Microsoft is Messing With Our Minds (2.50%) to Distract From Mass Layoffs
The slopfarms contribute to this noise
"Defective by Design" Turns 20
DBD is still as relevant as ever (probably more relevant than ever before)
A Bicycle for the Feeble Mind, or How Computers Got Worse for Productivity (Intentionally)
Many of us still adopt and champion the "workstation" mentality
Links 04/07/2026: Microsoft Tax Haven (Evasion) Tactics, Tobacco Bans, and More
Links for the day
Links 04/07/2026: 2026 Old Computer Challenge and Trying Gopher
Links for the day
SLAPP Censorship - Part 127 Out of 200: Lawsuits by Americans Filed in the UK a Burden on British Taxpayers, No Way to Recover the Funds When Americans Lose Their Cases
Are Garrett and Graveley 'pulling a 4Chan'?
Links 04/07/2026: USMCA (Covering Software Patents) Might Not be Renewed, Slop Bros Try to Pay Weird Al to Endorse Their Scheme
Links for the day
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Friday, July 03, 2026
IRC logs for Friday, July 03, 2026