To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
| mib_svgvso | Say goodbye to Geocities: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi... | Apr 28 00:01 |
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| mib_1980he | moonlight | Apr 28 00:04 |
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| mib_svgvso | Also sales dip at MS, they only made $3bn this quarter, poor MS ..... | Apr 28 00:04 |
| DaemonFC | only | Apr 28 00:05 |
| DaemonFC | well, I'll gladly take it off their hands | Apr 28 00:05 |
| DaemonFC | if looking at it makes them feel bad | Apr 28 00:05 |
| mib_svgvso | No they're disappointed they didn't make more of course. | Apr 28 00:05 |
| mib_svgvso | First quarterly drop in sales in 23 years .... there's hope. Maybe people are copping on... | Apr 28 00:07 |
| mib_svgvso | ... to the MS racket! | Apr 28 00:07 |
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| mib_svgvso | Anyone try the new Ubuntu? | Apr 28 00:13 |
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| Goblin | yeah been running it since release | Apr 28 00:29 |
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| the_mad_hatter | evening | Apr 28 01:23 |
| the_mad_hatter | Microvellarax - hilarious | Apr 28 01:24 |
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| yo | Apr 28 01:40 | |
| nice articles this morning, Roy. | Apr 28 01:40 | |
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| the_mad_hatter | Heh. You gotta cover this one: | Apr 28 01:48 |
| the_mad_hatter | http://twitter.com/charlesart... | Apr 28 01:48 |
| the_mad_hatter | well, whole of The Guardian has dropped MS Office Mac and gone OpenOffice. That's 1,000+ corporate seats right there. | Apr 28 01:49 |
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| the_mad_hatter | That is just sooo hilarious! | Apr 28 01:51 |
| the_mad_hatter | The Daily Gruaniad goes OOO. | Apr 28 01:53 |
| the_mad_hatter | And an article from Dvorak: | Apr 28 01:58 |
| the_mad_hatter | http://www.pcmag.com/article2... | Apr 28 01:59 |
| the_mad_hatter | Microsoft Bob Rides Again | Apr 28 01:59 |
| the_mad_hatter | Dvorak is getting damned suspicious of Microsoft. He didn't like the Office 2007 ribbon, called it "Change for changes sake" | Apr 28 02:01 |
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| the_mad_hatter | His actual words: | Apr 28 02:02 |
| the_mad_hatter | Microsoft Bob was a gimmick. I'm thinking the "ribbon" interface and the other changes for Office 2007 were just gimmicks, too. I'm reminded of the push-button transmissions Chrysler and others tried to promote in the 1950s. | Apr 28 02:02 |
| the_mad_hatter | He's got that right. | Apr 28 02:02 |
| DaemonFC | Isn't Dvorak a Mac fanboy? | Apr 28 02:09 |
| DaemonFC | those are as bad or worse | Apr 28 02:09 |
| DaemonFC | there's a difference between using something bad because you are being dragged along by the world and defending and apologizing for it and the company that made it | Apr 28 02:10 |
| DaemonFC | I don't know how anyone can be a fan of MS or Apple | Apr 28 02:11 |
| DaemonFC | I can understand using it, but not promoting it | Apr 28 02:11 |
| DaemonFC | In the olden days we would call this "dumbing down." The question always arises, do we need to make computing more intuitive? And a second and bigger question is, intuitive to whom? This is the real problem. | Apr 28 02:13 |
| DaemonFC | I liked that part B-) | Apr 28 02:13 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.codinghorror.com/blo... | Apr 28 02:30 |
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| My computer has a nipple. That is intuitive. It's called Trackpoint. | Apr 28 02:38 | |
| What you do with the pointer ... that is less than intuitive, but it is easy to move the pointer. | Apr 28 02:39 | |
| I'm told that many people have mistaken mice for foot pedals | Apr 28 02:39 | |
| DaemonFC | "Microsoft has killed XP, but they put it in a fruit cellar and go down to talk to it now and then." -Me :P | Apr 28 02:42 |
| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watch... | Apr 28 02:58 |
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| DaemonFC | http://www.youtube.com/watc... | Apr 28 04:18 |
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| DaemonFC | schestowitz: What do you make of this? http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/... | Apr 28 04:39 |
| DaemonFC | I think it's a bunch of hyperbole that could have been written by Microsoft themselves | Apr 28 04:40 |
| DaemonFC | both APIs have their benefits, DirectX is somewhat faster, but OpenGL has more features and is portable | Apr 28 04:40 |
| DaemonFC | but this guy acts like he's dancing on OpenGL's grave | Apr 28 04:41 |
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| balzac__ | Just dropping to touch base | Apr 28 04:53 |
| balzac__ | GNU Software - You cannot imagine the Powah!! | Apr 28 04:54 |
| balzac__ | luckily you don't have to imagine, just try it. | Apr 28 04:54 |
| balzac__ | ttyl | Apr 28 04:54 |
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| DaemonFC | http://www.cockeyed.com/citizen/gol... | Apr 28 05:09 |
| DaemonFC | heh | Apr 28 05:09 |
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| another fine story from the Hufington Post. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/23/n... | Apr 28 05:30 | |
| What a classy paper. The author seems to think the "don't tase me bro" video is "funny" as well as this one. | Apr 28 05:31 | |
| mean | Apr 28 05:31 | |
| I have not watched the video, it requires flash. | Apr 28 05:32 | |
| DaemonFC | ugggh | Apr 28 05:34 |
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| DaemonFC | http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... | Apr 28 05:50 |
| DaemonFC | all your base are belong to dumbass cops | Apr 28 05:51 |
| again? | Apr 28 05:57 | |
| NYC had a plane scare today. | Apr 28 05:57 | |
| DaemonFC | the police almost anyware are guaranteed to be borderline retarded | Apr 28 05:59 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Apr 28 05:59 |
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| http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04... | Apr 28 06:25 | |
| schestowitz | Hey | Apr 28 06:31 |
| schestowitz | First the Indepndetn dumps Microsoft Office, not thr Guardian! Excellent. | Apr 28 06:38 |
| schestowitz | *now | Apr 28 06:38 |
| popey | not entirely true | Apr 28 06:39 |
| schestowitz | How so? | Apr 28 06:39 |
| popey | in that they havent entirely dropped msoffice | Apr 28 06:39 |
| popey | (guardian) | Apr 28 06:39 |
| popey | they have a _lot_ of macs with msoffice installed | Apr 28 06:40 |
| popey | and have been trialling google docs | Apr 28 06:40 |
| popey | but its far from perfect | Apr 28 06:40 |
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| MinceR | MICROS~1 is caught using GNU/Linux again >> http://tech.slashdot.org/articl... | Apr 28 06:51 |
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| schestowitz | Democracy and militarism http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6... | Apr 28 07:10 |
| schestowitz | popey: how do you know this? | Apr 28 07:10 |
| popey | schestowitz: i was about to ask what the source for your assertion they'd dropped msoffice was | Apr 28 07:17 |
| popey | i have seen the subject come up on the bbc backstage mailing list this week, not seen it elsewhere | Apr 28 07:18 |
| popey | a good friend of mine is a tech at guardian | Apr 28 07:18 |
| schestowitz | Thanks. | Apr 28 07:19 |
| schestowitz | Yes, someone else posted a link here | Apr 28 07:20 |
| schestowitz | Some twitter thing | Apr 28 07:20 |
| schestowitz | It was new to me | Apr 28 07:20 |
| schestowitz | http://twitter.com/charlesarthu... | Apr 28 07:20 |
| schestowitz | "whole of The Guardian has dropped MS Office Mac and gone OpenOffice. That's 1,000+ corporate seats right there." | Apr 28 07:20 |
| popey | i think thats the tweet that was discussed on the bbc list | Apr 28 07:21 |
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| schestowitz | Howard Zinn is interesting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpQz8... | Apr 28 07:26 |
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| schestowitz | popey: yes, possibly | Apr 28 07:26 |
| schestowitz | Someone posted it in here earlier | Apr 28 07:26 |
| *amarsh04 is catching up on Jose_X's postings in linuxtoday.com talk-backs from 2 weeks ago | Apr 28 07:31 | |
| schestowitz | House of corruption (CA) collaborates with MS on untrusted computing and lockin: http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/... | Apr 28 07:37 |
| schestowitz | Apple thinks netbooks are "junky" < http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/... > | Apr 28 07:38 |
| schestowitz | Landlord demands dead victim’s late rent, fees < http://www.kenoshanews.com/news/landl... > | Apr 28 07:39 |
| schestowitz | Putting MADD in Charge of America's Highways < http://reason.com/news/... >. Obama is still defending the military industrial companies, the MAFIAA, and many corporations. He doesn't work for the people, he works for the party. | Apr 28 07:41 |
| schestowitz | The MAFIAA adopts the methods of the Bush cabinet. Call something "terrorist" or "pirate", then attack. http://www.afterdawn.com/news/ar... | Apr 28 07:46 |
| schestowitz | The Difference Between God and Larry Ellison? God does think he's Larry Ellison (yet). | Apr 28 07:47 |
| schestowitz | http://www.paulgraham.com/... "I usually avoid politics, but since we now seem to have an administration that's open to suggestions, I'm going to risk making one. The single biggest thing the government could do to increase the number of startups in this country is a policy that would cost nothing: establish a new class of visa for startup founders." | Apr 28 07:53 |
| schestowitz | Hurricanes reduce ability of forests to store carbon < http://www.newscientist.com/artic... > | Apr 28 07:59 |
| schestowitz | Chinese Instant Messaging Boom: 1.6 Billion Registered Accounts < http://www.web2asia.com/2009/04/27/c... > | Apr 28 08:11 |
| schestowitz | Justice Denied for Tibetans http://online.wsj.com/article/... | Apr 28 08:13 |
| schestowitz | Big numbers: China reached more than 1 billion telephone subscribers in Q1 2009 < http://www.web2asia.com/2009/04... > | Apr 28 08:13 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | How about some good news? ==> I got a job today! Hooray! | Apr 28 08:14 |
| amarsh04 | congratulations ushimitsudoki1 | Apr 28 08:16 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | \(0_0)/ | Apr 28 08:17 |
| amarsh04 | last web-page from .jp I viewed: http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/de... | Apr 28 08:18 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | amarsh04: nice - I know Miyazaki (of course), but I can't say I am familiar with Joe Jisaishi | Apr 28 08:19 |
| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki1: congrats! | Apr 28 08:20 |
| schestowitz | In Japan? | Apr 28 08:20 |
| schestowitz | Viral Press Officers Needed < http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/ar... > | Apr 28 08:20 |
| amarsh04 | Joe Hisaishi wrote the music for all of Hayao Miyazaki's feature-length cartoons, and other material as well | Apr 28 08:20 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | schestowitz: Yes, still here in Japan - took a long time | Apr 28 08:20 |
| schestowitz | In Microsoft Okinawa? ;-) | Apr 28 08:21 |
| schestowitz | gNET | Apr 28 08:21 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Heh, no. Though I must confess I did take the A+ certification to pump up my resume. | Apr 28 08:21 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | The gov't requires A+ for just about any IT work | Apr 28 08:22 |
| schestowitz | Which government? | Apr 28 08:22 |
| schestowitz | I mean, just to be sure on this | Apr 28 08:23 |
| schestowitz | Because the US has many bases there. | Apr 28 08:23 |
| schestowitz | So I was never sure. | Apr 28 08:23 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | US. My japanese is not strong enough to work in the Japanese gov't - you have to be at least JLPT 2, but in truth they will only hire JLPT 1 (and not many of those) | Apr 28 08:23 |
| schestowitz | Just found this: http://telcontar.net/store/... | Apr 28 08:26 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | I read an assertion in an article that the whole of Novell's profits could be attributed to the MS voucher deal. That could make an interesting post. | Apr 28 08:27 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Not sure where I read it though, or what the raw numbers are | Apr 28 08:28 |
| schestowitz | New article? | Apr 28 08:28 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Not more than 2 days ago - it was in an article about how (according to the author) it would make sense for MS to buy Novell. I don't recall much about the article, except that point jumped out at me | Apr 28 08:29 |
| schestowitz | The idea is this | Apr 28 08:29 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | I mean to mention it earlier, but got distracted | Apr 28 08:29 |
| schestowitz | For Microsoft, where Windows lost for sure (Red Hat), try to shove SUSE | Apr 28 08:29 |
| schestowitz | Then, indocrinate the public | Apr 28 08:29 |
| schestowitz | Call Red Hat "pirate" | Apr 28 08:29 |
| schestowitz | Try to fill that with IP-infected Linux | Apr 28 08:29 |
| schestowitz | Like with TPB | Apr 28 08:29 |
| schestowitz | Call it something evil | Apr 28 08:30 |
| schestowitz | Then attack | Apr 28 08:30 |
| schestowitz | Offer a remedy | Apr 28 08:30 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is trying to change the rules of the market it competes in that wa | Apr 28 08:30 |
| schestowitz | *way | Apr 28 08:30 |
| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki1: Sam Varghese? | Apr 28 08:30 |
| schestowitz | ITWire? Because I mentioned it already | Apr 28 08:30 |
| schestowitz | It's basically Microsoft propganda. Rather than describe itself as an evil abusers (like MAFIAA) it daemonises Linux describing it as some "Criminal"/"thief" and then attacks it | Apr 28 08:32 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | schestowitz: that sounds right - I meant to focus in on that particular point though. The idea that Novell - who relies on the Microsoft vouchers entirely - to remain profitable is going to act in any way that MS does not want is ludicrous. That sort of point. | Apr 28 08:32 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | That's a bit different from just the other ways that MS is using Novell (which I agree MS is certainly doing) | Apr 28 08:32 |
| schestowitz | Well, they get their wages from Microsoft | Apr 28 08:36 |
| schestowitz | So whether employees like Microsoft or not, their bosses/superiors will prod them to implement MOOX, not to say negative things about MS... | Apr 28 08:37 |
| schestowitz | See the blog of JoeB from OpenSource (at ZDNet) | Apr 28 08:37 |
| schestowitz | He slams Apple, Google, you name it... | Apr 28 08:37 |
| schestowitz | NEVER ever Microsoft... | Apr 28 08:37 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Exactly so. I think explicitly pointing out that without MS funding, Novell would be going out of business would be a powerful argument. (Assuming of course that the article I read had the facts right). | Apr 28 08:38 |
| amarsh04 | the Novell I remember did file/print/routing (and had DOS and UnixWare) | Apr 28 08:41 |
| amarsh04 | that was 15 years ago now | Apr 28 08:41 |
| schestowitz | Most of the cash comes from Netware AFAIK | Apr 28 08:42 |
| schestowitz | But how much Microsoft's payments help, who knows? | Apr 28 08:43 |
| schestowitz | August 2008: another 100ml | Apr 28 08:43 |
| schestowitz | For 4000 employees | Apr 28 08:43 |
| schestowitz | 40000x60k+other expenses | Apr 28 08:43 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | How much revenue / profits did they post last year? How much income from vouchers? Probably in the financials. I will look later when I have time - if it's interesting I might blog on it. | Apr 28 08:44 |
| schestowitz | About 2.4 bn | Apr 28 08:44 |
| schestowitz | ? | Apr 28 08:44 |
| schestowitz | Annually? | Apr 28 08:44 |
| schestowitz | That can't be true | Apr 28 08:44 |
| schestowitz | Oops | Apr 28 08:44 |
| schestowitz | 4000 | Apr 28 08:44 |
| schestowitz | Type | Apr 28 08:44 |
| schestowitz | *typo there. | Apr 28 08:44 |
| schestowitz | So Microsoft paid Novell's wages for half a year 8 months ago | Apr 28 08:44 |
| schestowitz | ushimitsudoki1: thanks, if you can take a look that would help | Apr 28 08:45 |
| schestowitz | 2 of my 5 speakers just went bust | Apr 28 08:48 |
| schestowitz | Any advice on how to disgnose? | Apr 28 08:51 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Check cables first. Swap out bad/good to see if it is the speaker or the line. | Apr 28 08:52 |
| schestowitz | it's the base unit | Apr 28 08:53 |
| schestowitz | just make lous bass | Apr 28 08:53 |
| schestowitz | *makes | Apr 28 08:53 |
| schestowitz | i think it smells fried | Apr 28 08:54 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | You can test if the speaker coil is burned out by applying a DC source directly to the cone terminals and seeing if the speaker "jumps". Do this quickly and with a little voltage or you will burn out the cone for sure. This is how I test PA speakers. I don't know if I would do it on little ass computer speakers, though. | Apr 28 08:55 |
| schestowitz | it's an amplifier | Apr 28 08:56 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | You think 2 of the 5 outputs internally burnt out in the amp? | Apr 28 08:56 |
| schestowitz | well, i split the ouput | Apr 28 08:57 |
| schestowitz | stereo does 3 | Apr 28 08:57 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | What was the output rated at (W/Ohm), and into what did you split it and how (parallel or series)? | Apr 28 08:58 |
| schestowitz | Maybe the power supply is the cause | Apr 28 08:59 |
| schestowitz | It just makes noise even for no input | Apr 28 08:59 |
| schestowitz | I don't know the technical details. | Apr 28 08:59 |
| ushimitsudoki1 | Heh, or maybe you burned out the amp because you attached to much load to the output :) | Apr 28 08:59 |
| schestowitz | Probably | Apr 28 08:59 |
| schestowitz | It's not a detachable cable though | Apr 28 08:59 |
| schestowitz | That's the issue | Apr 28 08:59 |
| schestowitz | Would cost more to fix than it's worth,l I reckon | Apr 28 08:59 |
| *schestowitz rearranges desk :-( | Apr 28 09:10 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/27/ca... Cassatt is finished | Apr 28 09:14 |
| schestowitz | "Journalism has a glass jaw these days, threatening to shatter into a million pieces with the next right hook that lands courtesy of another layoff, another closing of a daily newspaper, another inane, biased utterance from a cable news host." http://www.linuxinsider.com... | Apr 28 09:18 |
| schestowitz | yesterday BN did over 50k pageviews :-) | Apr 28 09:28 |
| schestowitz | (or over 400k hits) | Apr 28 09:28 |
| schestowitz | http://www.itdatabase.com/blo... | Apr 28 09:38 |
| MinceR | r4wr | Apr 28 09:42 |
| schestowitz | Demand for Intel Atom processors slowing < http://www.digitimes.com/news... > What would be the implications for ARM/Linux? | Apr 28 09:45 |
| MinceR | dunno | Apr 28 09:50 |
| MinceR | i guess retardroid subnotebooks will show | Apr 28 09:50 |
| schestowitz | ARM+Embedded Valley=retardroids on steroids | Apr 28 09:51 |
| schestowitz | Useless Google PR | Apr 28 09:54 |
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| schestowitz | I told Linus about it (Adroidisation of Linux... online 'shops' for binaries, DRM...) | Apr 28 09:54 |
| schestowitz | Good Online Experience Leads To More Donations For Nonprofits < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2... > | Apr 28 09:54 |
| schestowitz | Biden and Obamaa[sic] will also have Google in that panel after all http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/04/2... | Apr 28 09:56 |
| MinceR | did Linus say anything about retardroid so far? | Apr 28 09:56 |
| schestowitz | Hope | Apr 28 09:56 |
| schestowitz | But remember, he likes Tivoisation | Apr 28 09:56 |
| schestowitz | Digg+Google (no MSN): Google Has Digg on the Brain http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009... | Apr 28 09:58 |
| schestowitz | I may have found that memory leaker BTW | Apr 28 09:58 |
| schestowitz | Stupid Adobe AIR maybe | Apr 28 09:58 |
| schestowitz | Can't confirm yet. We'll see swapping in days to come | Apr 28 09:58 |
| MinceR | what's Embedded Valley? | Apr 28 09:59 |
| schestowitz | Look it up | Apr 28 09:59 |
| schestowitz | Wait | Apr 28 10:00 |
| schestowitz | Maybe I got the name wrong | Apr 28 10:00 |
| schestowitz | They are a startup doing ARM netbooks | Apr 28 10:00 |
| MinceR | WP doesn't know, Scroogle doesn't seem to know | Apr 28 10:00 |
| MinceR | oh. | Apr 28 10:00 |
| schestowitz | Ah | Apr 28 10:00 |
| schestowitz | Embedded Alley | Apr 28 10:00 |
| MinceR | oh. | Apr 28 10:00 |
| schestowitz | Press release: http://opensource.sys-con.com/... | Apr 28 10:00 |
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| schestowitz | I notuce that Canonical{tm} is still cracking down on Buntu | Apr 28 10:02 |
| schestowitz | It attacked Fluxubuntu | Apr 28 10:02 |
| schestowitz | And eeebuntu became just "Easy Peasy" | Apr 28 10:02 |
| schestowitz | gOS.. | Apr 28 10:02 |
| schestowitz | They'll hopefully not fight restaurants called Ubuntu, which predate Linux | Apr 28 10:02 |
| schestowitz | Basically, here's the bottom line: no distribution -- even if derives from Ubuntu -- is allowed to associate itself with Ubuntu using its name. | Apr 28 10:03 |
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| MinceR | :) | Apr 28 10:06 |
| schestowitz | Samsung's Android phone to launch in Germany < http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6... >. This one has a nice design | Apr 28 10:07 |
| schestowitz | But it's Ballnux | Apr 28 10:07 |
| MinceR | let's find a new name for the Ubuntu philosophy. | Apr 28 10:07 |
| schestowitz | Canonical or Ubuntu? | Apr 28 10:07 |
| MinceR | not Canonical | Apr 28 10:08 |
| MinceR | the original one :) | Apr 28 10:08 |
| schestowitz | LinuxDevices runs out of material and now write about "Linux compatible" PCs: http://www.linuxdevices.com/n... | Apr 28 10:08 |
| schestowitz | There's a product drought | Apr 28 10:09 |
| schestowitz | The USian economy will hopefully not fall and that would have a knock-on effect | Apr 28 10:09 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: Humanity for others, trademarks for nobody. | Apr 28 10:10 |
| schestowitz | have some water, have some food, poor man, but if you touch my daught^H^Htrademark I'll blow ya head off | Apr 28 10:10 |
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| schestowitz | MinceR: new tips for setting up kde4: http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/04/23... | Apr 28 10:13 |
| _Hicham_ | normal | Apr 28 10:13 |
| MinceR | i'm thinking of trying kde4 with gnome-panel | Apr 28 10:14 |
| MinceR | and perhaps compiz | Apr 28 10:14 |
| MinceR | i'm running gnome with compiz but i run some kde daemons (to set up the mouse cursor correctly and to convert X system bell into a waveform beep, i haven't figured this out yet) | Apr 28 10:15 |
| MinceR | i've already replaced glipper with klipper because glipper keeps crashing on login | Apr 28 10:15 |
| schestowitz | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi... it's finally official. The Phorm/Websense thuggery goes all the way to the top (Home Office) | Apr 28 10:15 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : what distro is this? | Apr 28 10:15 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: done that before | Apr 28 10:15 |
| schestowitz | If you install kde-desktop on Ubuntu then you just run gnome-panel | Apr 28 10:16 |
| schestowitz | I do it on my other PC at home | Apr 28 10:16 |
| schestowitz | isn't glipper mono? | Apr 28 10:16 |
| MinceR | _Hicham_: ubuntu intrepid | Apr 28 10:16 |
| schestowitz | Someone refuted this IIRC | Apr 28 10:16 |
| MinceR | i'm not exactly satisfied with it since the upgrade | Apr 28 10:16 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: dunno | Apr 28 10:16 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: Mandriva 2009.1 is coming | Apr 28 10:16 |
| schestowitz | Give it a go | Apr 28 10:17 |
| schestowitz | It also has GNOME stuff | Apr 28 10:17 |
| schestowitz | And nice GTK integration | Apr 28 10:17 |
| MinceR | i think i'll try debian lenny first | Apr 28 10:17 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : try fedora also | Apr 28 10:17 |
| MinceR | after all, there's no use for a release every 6 months if it isn't reliable | Apr 28 10:17 |
| schestowitz | Mandriva does KDE very weel | Apr 28 10:17 |
| schestowitz | *Well | Apr 28 10:17 |
| MinceR | i've tried fedora, it isn't as polished as i had hoped | Apr 28 10:17 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : which fedora? 10? | Apr 28 10:17 |
| MinceR | i'll check | Apr 28 10:17 |
| schestowitz | Maybe Mandriva will be out before the month is over | Apr 28 10:17 |
| schestowitz | RC2 now | Apr 28 10:18 |
| MinceR | fc8 | Apr 28 10:18 |
| schestowitz | Core? | Apr 28 10:18 |
| schestowitz | They dropped core around 6. | Apr 28 10:18 |
| schestowitz | core dump :-) :-D | Apr 28 10:19 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : try fc10 | Apr 28 10:19 |
| MinceR | well it puts "fc8" in the kernel names | Apr 28 10:20 |
| MinceR | then again, i don't like how debian dropped /dev/tcp from bash for no good reason | Apr 28 10:21 |
| _Hicham_ | MinceR : fc10 is now a great distro | Apr 28 10:22 |
| _Hicham_ | forget about ur previous experiences | Apr 28 10:22 |
| MinceR | perhaps i should get a usb flash for testing new distros | Apr 28 10:23 |
| MinceR | how difficult it is to install a linux distro on a usb flash? | Apr 28 10:23 |
| _Hicham_ | why? Live CDs are sufficient | Apr 28 10:23 |
| MinceR | live cds operate differently | Apr 28 10:23 |
| MinceR | at least installing to them is only temporary | Apr 28 10:23 |
| MinceR | currently i have 1 extra partition on my laptop for a second distro (i currently have fc8 on it) | Apr 28 10:24 |
| MinceR | but perhaps it would be wiser to use external drives for this stuff | Apr 28 10:24 |
| schestowitz | SUN obituary < http://www.infoworld.com/t/tech-industr... >. Turns out I'm the same age of Sun, but I'm not sold yet ;-) | Apr 28 10:26 |
| MinceR | :) | Apr 28 10:26 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: ture, Fedora 10 is good | Apr 28 10:26 |
| schestowitz | Fedora 9 and 8 not as good | Apr 28 10:26 |
| schestowitz | Based on lots of reviews I went through | Apr 28 10:26 |
| schestowitz | Fedora burned its reputation with some worse released and it's hard to shake that off now (perception problem) | Apr 28 10:27 |
| MinceR | ic | Apr 28 10:27 |
| schestowitz | Also, Mono was purged from the Live CD | Apr 28 10:27 |
| _Hicham_ | I am using Fedora 10 right now | Apr 28 10:28 |
| _Hicham_ | it just rocks | Apr 28 10:28 |
| MinceR | i think i've come up with a good idea: i'll just make sure they don't touch the /boot fs, then i can just dd/bz2 the "second distro" partition and put something else on it | Apr 28 10:29 |
| MinceR | i have big external HDDs i can store unused stuff on :) | Apr 28 10:29 |
| schestowitz | We're five weeks away now from Android on ARM (For subonotebooks) | Apr 28 10:31 |
| MinceR | i find ARM subnotebooks interesting, but i'm less thrilled about putting retardroid on them | Apr 28 10:32 |
| schestowitz | Wikipedia's Norwegian press officer cuffed for killing mum < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/... >. That can't be good. Comments, David? | Apr 28 10:34 |
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| schestowitz | Taxman denies Wikipedia UK charity status < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2... > | Apr 28 10:46 |
| schestowitz | American soil gets the problems the UK once had: Mexico? US? Just don't go there, warns EU health chief < http://www.theregister.co.uk/20... > | Apr 28 10:47 |
| schestowitz | Proving that deep pockets can eliminate legitimate lawsuits: Appeal seeks to save Vista case < http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/Appeal_... > | Apr 28 10:52 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft is teaching business to smoke cheap wares: Microsoft cuts prices of all-in-one hosted productivity suite < http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=2602 > | Apr 28 10:58 |
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| oiaohm | Hi all | Apr 28 11:41 |
| schestowitz | Hi, wb | Apr 28 11:42 |
| schestowitz | Good news today | Apr 28 11:42 |
| schestowitz | I shall do a links post any moment now | Apr 28 11:43 |
| oiaohm | That should be good have not seen much good news today. | Apr 28 11:43 |
| schestowitz | Key people quit MS too | Apr 28 11:44 |
| oiaohm | Got a laptop to recover data from that as been droped in a sewage tank. | Apr 28 11:44 |
| oiaohm | Not the best things to land on desk. | Apr 28 11:44 |
| schestowitz | "Land" is the key word | Apr 28 11:44 |
| schestowitz | Feel bad for the person diving in there to fetch it | Apr 28 11:45 |
| oiaohm | Yes had to disinfect desk after droping it in a drum of disinfectant. | Apr 28 11:45 |
| oiaohm | They were lining up to clean the tank out schestowitz | Apr 28 11:46 |
| oiaohm | It was the job recording computer. | Apr 28 11:46 |
| oiaohm | Person got a little bit lax with laptop. | Apr 28 11:46 |
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| oiaohm | It is still better than a computer that has had a dead body on it. | Apr 28 11:49 |
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| schestowitz | Hehe. "bit lax with laptop." | Apr 28 11:56 |
| schestowitz | Better than a pool of laxative | Apr 28 11:56 |
| schestowitz | I remember when some guy around here committed suicide and they couldn't get access to his passwords that he ran cvs with | Apr 28 11:57 |
| PetoKraus | hunter2 | Apr 28 11:57 |
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| oiaohm | pool of laxative does not stink. schestowitz | Apr 28 12:09 |
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| PetoKraus | as an environmental chemistry student, spending a year talking about shit, urine, manure, sewage and it's toxicity | Apr 28 12:12 |
| PetoKraus | and working in a PC repair shop | Apr 28 12:13 |
| PetoKraus | i can quite share the feeling | Apr 28 12:13 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: yes, I know | Apr 28 12:22 |
| schestowitz | But it was intended to fit the joke | Apr 28 12:22 |
| oiaohm | Ok cleanest is fried to a crisp. | Apr 28 12:23 |
| schestowitz | One of the professors around here did his PhD going down tubes and learning something about tunnels (sewers) | Apr 28 12:23 |
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| oiaohm | schestowitz: I have had computers covered in all kinds of things. Funniest was choclate. Truly fully coated. | Apr 28 12:36 |
| schestowitz | Maybe a PC for recipes. | Apr 28 12:40 |
| schestowitz | Extremist rises http://www.youtube.com/wat... | Apr 28 12:40 |
| DaemonFC | ugggh | Apr 28 12:42 |
| DaemonFC | why do I watch this "news" | Apr 28 12:42 |
| oiaohm | About what. | Apr 28 12:42 |
| DaemonFC | They have this Republican senator waffling on about how Obama is going to ruin America, and how dare the Democrats get legislation through the 100 seat Senate with only 51 votes | Apr 28 12:43 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Apr 28 12:43 |
| DaemonFC | ugggh | Apr 28 12:43 |
| oiaohm | USA is stuffed now. | Apr 28 12:44 |
| DaemonFC | sounds fair to me, certainly no worse than anything they did | Apr 28 12:44 |
| DaemonFC | The filibuster crap only lets the minority party run the show | Apr 28 12:44 |
| oiaohm | How long before USA has more debt than it can pay. | Apr 28 12:44 |
| DaemonFC | meh, debt is artificial | Apr 28 12:45 |
| DaemonFC | debt is an idea on a ledger | Apr 28 12:45 |
| oiaohm | debt maybe only on paper. | Apr 28 12:45 |
| oiaohm | The problem is you do have to pay for it at some point. | Apr 28 12:45 |
| DaemonFC | it would actually improve the situation for the working class should we have more debt than we can pay | Apr 28 12:45 |
| DaemonFC | because China and Friends would quit selling crap to us | Apr 28 12:45 |
| DaemonFC | and we'd have to make it ourselves again | Apr 28 12:45 |
| DaemonFC | so tell me why, exactly, I should care? | Apr 28 12:46 |
| oiaohm | Or simple mine all your resources out for nothing. | Apr 28 12:46 |
| oiaohm | Including your building for scrap metal. | Apr 28 12:46 |
| oiaohm | debt has to be paid at some point. | Apr 28 12:46 |
| oiaohm | Result for country is never nice. | Apr 28 12:46 |
| DaemonFC | Meh, I don't think we'll fail, just be less important | Apr 28 12:46 |
| DaemonFC | it's what happened to the British | Apr 28 12:47 |
| DaemonFC | so why not? | Apr 28 12:47 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: see this _MS_NBS[sic]: Countdown: Rick Perry's Secession Remarks < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=... > | Apr 28 12:47 |
| oiaohm | British never went bank rupt. | Apr 28 12:47 |
| DaemonFC | Rick Perry is an asshole who should be lynched | Apr 28 12:47 |
| DaemonFC | they should bring back lynching just for him | Apr 28 12:47 |
| oiaohm | The point you are risking in the USA. | Apr 28 12:47 |
| oiaohm | Please note you have to pay the interest on that debt at a min. | Apr 28 12:47 |
| DaemonFC | it wouldn't matter to the average person | Apr 28 12:47 |
| DaemonFC | you may get CEOs throwing themselves out their window | Apr 28 12:48 |
| oiaohm | Depends. | Apr 28 12:48 |
| DaemonFC | but if everyone is already unemployed, how much worse could it get? | Apr 28 12:48 |
| oiaohm | Some countries it has mattered. | Apr 28 12:48 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: agreed | Apr 28 12:48 |
| oiaohm | No house is worse. | Apr 28 12:48 |
| schestowitz | Britian was in bad shape for 20 years | Apr 28 12:48 |
| schestowitz | So was the US | Apr 28 12:48 |
| schestowitz | 1931-51 | Apr 28 12:48 |
| oiaohm | And no resources to make houses. | Apr 28 12:48 |
| schestowitz | Depression stage | Apr 28 12:48 |
| oiaohm | Depression neither of them went bank rupt as such. | Apr 28 12:48 |
| DaemonFC | Russia was TWO TIMES worse off than the Great Depression in the crisis of 1998 | Apr 28 12:48 |
| oiaohm | Just has a crushing. | Apr 28 12:48 |
| DaemonFC | and they didn't go under | Apr 28 12:48 |
| oiaohm | You build you way out. | Apr 28 12:49 |
| schestowitz | True | Apr 28 12:49 |
| oiaohm | So you can pay your debts. | Apr 28 12:49 |
| schestowitz | But you might not like it when people sell apples in the tsreet | Apr 28 12:49 |
| schestowitz | And shoeshiners | Apr 28 12:49 |
| schestowitz | Rather than a culture of buying new shoes every month | Apr 28 12:49 |
| schestowitz | Made in Vietnam or something | Apr 28 12:49 |
| DaemonFC | there was high crime, there was mass poverty, but it only lasted for several years and they've been growing at about 7% a year for the last decade | Apr 28 12:49 |
| DaemonFC | soI mean, yeah | Apr 28 12:50 |
| DaemonFC | things can get pretty bad, then you throw the bastards out and start again | Apr 28 12:50 |
| oiaohm | USA does not have the povety level of backrupt countries have had. | Apr 28 12:50 |
| DaemonFC | sometimes it can be just like that | Apr 28 12:50 |
| oiaohm | When a country goes bankrupt its currency normally goes into hyper infactions. | Apr 28 12:50 |
| oiaohm | So like 10 billion dollars to by a loaf of bread. | Apr 28 12:51 |
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| DaemonFC | I was saying that Russia, which is probably the closest thing you'll get to our economy has been far worse | Apr 28 12:51 |
| DaemonFC | so it would have to get much worse here before the government collapsed | Apr 28 12:51 |
| oiaohm | No you are worse off than Russia. | Apr 28 12:51 |
| DaemonFC | no, they are | Apr 28 12:51 |
| DaemonFC | their GDP per capita is still only about 1/4th as much as ours | Apr 28 12:52 |
| oiaohm | You have higher percent under the povitity line. | Apr 28 12:52 |
| DaemonFC | and the PPP is about a third | Apr 28 12:52 |
| oiaohm | Its debts. | Apr 28 12:52 |
| oiaohm | Russian is not in that bad. | Apr 28 12:52 |
| DaemonFC | their norm is under the US poverty level | Apr 28 12:52 |
| DaemonFC | so it's perspective | Apr 28 12:52 |
| oiaohm | Poverty level means to put food on table. | Apr 28 12:53 |
| DaemonFC | I think the federal poverty guidelines here are about $12,500 a year for 1 person | Apr 28 12:53 |
| oiaohm | Not the USA fake of so much money. | Apr 28 12:53 |
| DaemonFC | the average person in Russia makes about $11,000 | Apr 28 12:53 |
| DaemonFC | so they are well below our standard of poverty | Apr 28 12:53 |
| schestowitz | UK in Recession Pound dropping dead !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbTTkT_oGvY > | Apr 28 12:53 |
| oiaohm | In russian 11.000 buys a lot more food. | Apr 28 12:53 |
| schestowitz | That's the video title BTW | Apr 28 12:53 |
| schestowitz | Not mine | Apr 28 12:53 |
| DaemonFC | the UK will capitulate | Apr 28 12:53 |
| oiaohm | Than 12,500 in the usa. | Apr 28 12:53 |
| DaemonFC | ditch the pound | Apr 28 12:53 |
| DaemonFC | and go Euro | Apr 28 12:53 |
| DaemonFC | that's the point | Apr 28 12:54 |
| DaemonFC | this is all manufactured | Apr 28 12:54 |
| oiaohm | True poverty level for each country is different. | Apr 28 12:54 |
| oiaohm | Costs of the area are a factor. | Apr 28 12:54 |
| schestowitz | UK compared to iceland in this video | Apr 28 12:54 |
| DaemonFC | the banks will twist you until you give up and cash your money in for Euros at 1/3rd of what you had | Apr 28 12:54 |
| oiaohm | Do you know the biggest thing that is stopping USA from currently being bankrupt is that oil is being traded in USD. | Apr 28 12:55 |
| schestowitz | This British chap who is an economic expert fled with the family to Singapore: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_... | Apr 28 12:58 |
| schestowitz | That's where the next centre of the world is likely to be, he argues | Apr 28 12:58 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?... | Apr 28 12:59 |
| oiaohm | You are also ware that over 50 percent of USA debt owns to China. | Apr 28 12:59 |
| oiaohm | How to lose a country without fighting a war. | Apr 28 12:59 |
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| DaemonFC | oh fuck me | Apr 28 13:02 |
| DaemonFC | my system crashed and now it's saying it's an eval copy | Apr 28 13:02 |
| DaemonFC | but it's still activated? | Apr 28 13:02 |
| DaemonFC | must be an SP2 problem | Apr 28 13:02 |
| DaemonFC | maybe cause the beta is time bombed? | Apr 28 13:03 |
| DaemonFC | http://support.microsoft... | Apr 28 13:03 |
| DaemonFC | yep | Apr 28 13:03 |
| DaemonFC | After you install Service Pack 2 , your desktop may display the following text: | Apr 28 13:04 |
| DaemonFC | Evaluation Copy | Apr 28 13:04 |
| DaemonFC | This text does not mean that your system is no longer “Genuine." This text only indicates that you installed a test version of software that is time limited. | Apr 28 13:04 |
| schestowitz | Jim Rogers is brilliant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXKVe... | Apr 28 13:04 |
| DaemonFC | that's a relief, among the encyclopeida of crap I don't care about, in the foot notes | Apr 28 13:04 |
| DaemonFC | "No, we didn't break your shit" | Apr 28 13:05 |
| DaemonFC | typical | Apr 28 13:05 |
| DaemonFC | The Evaluation Copy text may be displayed on the second startup after you install the service pack. Also, the Evaluation Copy text may remain during the first restart after you uninstall the service pack. However, this text does not appear after the next restart. | Apr 28 13:05 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Apr 28 13:05 |
| DaemonFC | come to think of it | Apr 28 13:06 |
| DaemonFC | why didn't error reporting say I recovered from a critical error? | Apr 28 13:06 |
| DaemonFC | there's nothing about that failure in the log at all | Apr 28 13:07 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Apr 28 13:07 |
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| DaemonFC | I'm fairly sure it's Vuze | Apr 28 13:11 |
| DaemonFC | there's just no good bittorrent clients for Windows | Apr 28 13:12 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: I'm catching up | Apr 28 13:12 |
| schestowitz | Russia is not doing badly | Apr 28 13:12 |
| schestowitz | In fact, it's situation wrt debt is pretty good | Apr 28 13:12 |
| schestowitz | It also has gas | Apr 28 13:12 |
| DaemonFC | any country that joins the world banking system and WTO is fucked | Apr 28 13:13 |
| DaemonFC | it's just how well they hide it | Apr 28 13:13 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Apr 28 13:13 |
| DaemonFC | when you start letting Microsoft and Walmart and Wells Fargo and the RIAA write your laws, you are dead and walking | Apr 28 13:14 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Apr 28 13:14 |
| schestowitz | I don't understand why you still toy with Windows | Apr 28 13:14 |
| schestowitz | Do you need some program that use winPIs? | Apr 28 13:14 |
| schestowitz | use virtualbox. | Apr 28 13:14 |
| DaemonFC | not so simple | Apr 28 13:14 |
| DaemonFC | that was actually the first thing I tried | Apr 28 13:14 |
| schestowitz | I understand that some people's employers requite Winders | Apr 28 13:15 |
| DaemonFC | Virtual Box says it can do pass through of hardware, but it all shows up in VirtualBox/Windows as "Unrecognized Device" | Apr 28 13:15 |
| DaemonFC | and the kicker is that Linux can actually use some of it, but then application support is non-existent or bad | Apr 28 13:16 |
| DaemonFC | or then maybe the app supports it but when you use the reverse engineered network protocol, the people on the other end using the real product can't use the video feed | Apr 28 13:16 |
| DaemonFC | and Flash is totally useless wrt to voice/video | Apr 28 13:17 |
| DaemonFC | both Windows and Linux suffer crippling problems when you actually try to use them in X86-64 mode | Apr 28 13:18 |
| DaemonFC | just that most of Windows problems are there intentionally | Apr 28 13:18 |
| DaemonFC | so unless you want a really fast 386, forget it | Apr 28 13:19 |
| oiaohm | Ok you are talking about virtualbox. | Apr 28 13:19 |
| oiaohm | What cpu. You have vt-d extentions. | Apr 28 13:19 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, most of the problems I end up with on Windows are there for some kind of DRM reason | Apr 28 13:20 |
| DaemonFC | and most of the problems on Linux exist because that feature has just never been implemented | Apr 28 13:20 |
| DaemonFC | so using Windows is like Iran-Contra | Apr 28 13:20 |
| DaemonFC | arms for hostages | Apr 28 13:20 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Apr 28 13:20 |
| oiaohm | Virtualbox has something annoying it will attempt to do device pass through without vt-d help. | Apr 28 13:20 |
| oiaohm | So leading to device detection failures and mucking up in windows and Linux. | Apr 28 13:20 |
| oiaohm | Windows has protected path. | Apr 28 13:21 |
| oiaohm | Also screws up playing protected video in vm's. | Apr 28 13:21 |
| DaemonFC | Right, Windows makes me angry when it screws my TV tuner feed, but Linux can't use it at all | Apr 28 13:21 |
| DaemonFC | Windows makes me angry that I have to use proprietary apps for voice/video, Linux hasn't implemented compatible alternatives | Apr 28 13:22 |
| DaemonFC | so it comes down to handcuffware or no functionality a lot of the time | Apr 28 13:22 |
| oiaohm | There are ones for Linux that do voice and video there interface needs work. | Apr 28 13:22 |
| DaemonFC | either way it's a horrible compromise | Apr 28 13:22 |
| oiaohm | Card support I will give you is spotty. | Apr 28 13:22 |
| oiaohm | I have found Linux quite ok with the right hardware match. | Apr 28 13:24 |
| DaemonFC | it's lock in because of the sheer number of people that use it | Apr 28 13:24 |
| DaemonFC | and refuse to give it up | Apr 28 13:24 |
| DaemonFC | (Windows) | Apr 28 13:24 |
| DaemonFC | If I had to make an analogy, it would be like "There are only two models of car, there's one that's unreliable, gets bad gas mileage, and costs an obscene amount of money (Windows) and one that you can get a lot cheaper but it's missing the transmission, fuel pump, and maybe the engine" | Apr 28 13:26 |
| DaemonFC | it's sad because with those things it would be a much nicer car, but you can't find them anywhere | Apr 28 13:26 |
| DaemonFC | and you know cause you've looked | Apr 28 13:26 |
| oiaohm | Funny part when it comes to video capture drivers Mac can be as bad as linux at times. | Apr 28 13:27 |
| DaemonFC | device manufacturers only ever bother to make a Windows driver, and not even that in many cases, and as long as there are entire spectrums of popular hardware that Linux poorly supports, it will be "That's nice, but what about my....." | Apr 28 13:28 |
| DaemonFC | *decent Windows driver that is | Apr 28 13:28 |
| oiaohm | Lot of people are in for a rude shock with windows 7. | Apr 28 13:28 |
| oiaohm | Lot of hardware companies are not going to update there drivers. | Apr 28 13:29 |
| DaemonFC | an example of the reverse being true is my "Vista Capable" laptop that has no video drivers for Vista | Apr 28 13:29 |
| DaemonFC | I probably should have sued them | Apr 28 13:29 |
| DaemonFC | but I wasn't thinking | Apr 28 13:29 |
| oiaohm | Its more Windows XP 32 bit drivers are decent. | Apr 28 13:29 |
| oiaohm | Anything else is screwed. | Apr 28 13:29 |
| DaemonFC | WDDM is fucked | Apr 28 13:29 |
| DaemonFC | seriously | Apr 28 13:29 |
| oiaohm | At least when Linux does support a card well it stays that way. | Apr 28 13:30 |
| DaemonFC | this is true | Apr 28 13:30 |
| DaemonFC | it has support for some majorly obsolete hardware that predates Windows XP :) | Apr 28 13:31 |
| DaemonFC | heh | Apr 28 13:31 |
| oiaohm | Linux if you choose hardware to match upgrades most things stay working. | Apr 28 13:31 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, well, I wasn't really thinking about Linux when I bought this system | Apr 28 13:31 |
| DaemonFC | and so it's kind of what I have | Apr 28 13:32 |
| oiaohm | If the applciations were upto standard. | Apr 28 13:32 |
| DaemonFC | *shrugs* | Apr 28 13:32 |
| oiaohm | It would be all great for those who plan buy. | Apr 28 13:32 |
| DaemonFC | if I could go back and get something else I would | Apr 28 13:32 |
| oiaohm | There are a lot of USB capture devices that work great with Linux. | Apr 28 13:32 |
| DaemonFC | seemed like too good of a deal, and it was, cause the hardware loves it some Vista | Apr 28 13:32 |
| DaemonFC | but Linux, not so much | Apr 28 13:33 |
| oiaohm | I use USB digtail turner bits here. | Apr 28 13:33 |
| DaemonFC | oh I agree, Windows webcam software is all garbage, trialware, or garbage and trialware | Apr 28 13:33 |
| DaemonFC | but..... | Apr 28 13:34 |
| DaemonFC | I don't really use my webcam for that stuff | Apr 28 13:34 |
| DaemonFC | mainly just streaming | Apr 28 13:34 |
| DaemonFC | I managed to find that VLC can convert WMV to Theora | Apr 28 13:34 |
| DaemonFC | so I record in WMV then convert it | Apr 28 13:34 |
| oiaohm | so can mplayerhq | Apr 28 13:35 |
| DaemonFC | the alternative is forking out $50 for someone's third party app | Apr 28 13:35 |
| DaemonFC | the problem with most Microsoft formats isn't technical, it's DRM and patents | Apr 28 13:35 |
| DaemonFC | I would say WMA/WMV are equal to most other formats on pure technical merit | Apr 28 13:35 |
| DaemonFC | but I don't want to pollute the world with more patented crap | Apr 28 13:36 |
| oiaohm | Also video recording be aware some of Linux video editors do it very well from support webcans and turners. | Apr 28 13:36 |
| DaemonFC | if Microsoft did Windows Media under their MSPL license and give a royalty free license to everyone, I would probably use it | Apr 28 13:37 |
| oiaohm | Yes someone kinda though that would be a good idea. | Apr 28 13:37 |
| DaemonFC | but I don't because they don't | Apr 28 13:37 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtCM... | Apr 28 13:37 |
| DaemonFC | using free formats on Windows feels unnatural | Apr 28 13:37 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: re vista7 drivers: some companies go out of resource /existence | Apr 28 13:37 |
| DaemonFC | and that's kind of the point | Apr 28 13:37 |
| schestowitz | Some go bankrupct, so no driver updates | Apr 28 13:38 |
| schestowitz | And no source code | Apr 28 13:38 |
| schestowitz | SGI... | Apr 28 13:38 |
| schestowitz | But not for WIndows in this case | Apr 28 13:38 |
| schestowitz | They change proiority | Apr 28 13:38 |
| schestowitz | Vista7 with 1% market share they won't prioritise | Apr 28 13:38 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft might offer incentives, who knows? | Apr 28 13:38 |
| DaemonFC | SGI's biggest problem was trying to sell MIPS work stations with proprietary UNIX, and the sidetracking into "We're going to Windows NT" crap that they aborted almost right away | Apr 28 13:38 |
| DaemonFC | they were poorly managed and most of their net worth was just because they used to be huge | Apr 28 13:39 |
| DaemonFC | there's a certain degree you can screw up and survive, and they passed it | Apr 28 13:39 |
| DaemonFC | if they had gotten on the Linux wagon long ago, ported all their applications, and just became a vendor of standard PC hardware, they would have done better | Apr 28 13:40 |
| oiaohm | Some companies are makign devices that are licence clones from companies that no longer exist as well. | Apr 28 13:40 |
| DaemonFC | but X86-64 came too late | Apr 28 13:40 |
| oiaohm | With closed source drivers. | Apr 28 13:40 |
| DaemonFC | and IA-64 has been a gross misadventure | Apr 28 13:40 |
| DaemonFC | so maybe that wouldn't have helped either | Apr 28 13:40 |
| oiaohm | IA-64 works great with Linux. | Apr 28 13:40 |
| DaemonFC | the Itanic | Apr 28 13:41 |
| DaemonFC | :P | Apr 28 13:41 |
| oiaohm | Just don't dare try running anything 32 bit. | Apr 28 13:41 |
| oiaohm | It hurts like hell. | Apr 28 13:41 |
| DaemonFC | yeah, it can emulate x86, but horribly slow | Apr 28 13:41 |
| oiaohm | its like cpu 1/20 of wht it was before. | Apr 28 13:41 |
| DaemonFC | early ones had a slow x86 core, and the new ones need software emulation in the OS | Apr 28 13:41 |
| DaemonFC | that's where WOW64 came from on Windows | Apr 28 13:42 |
| DaemonFC | but on X86-64 is only has to do process switching | Apr 28 13:42 |
| DaemonFC | so there's no penalty really | Apr 28 13:42 |
| oiaohm | Linux is having a hard time because of X86-64 | Apr 28 13:42 |
| DaemonFC | X86-64 is cheaper and more compatible, and still good performance | Apr 28 13:42 |
| DaemonFC | that's why IA-64 is a joke | Apr 28 13:42 |
| oiaohm | Linux was not designed to have 32 and 64 bit side by side. | Apr 28 13:42 |
| oiaohm | It was designed on the idea of having everything the same. | Apr 28 13:43 |
| DaemonFC | all you need are 32-bit libraries | Apr 28 13:43 |
| oiaohm | So that support had to be added in. | Apr 28 13:43 |
| DaemonFC | the Debian all-in-one package is the best I've seen anyone do | Apr 28 13:43 |
| oiaohm | Debian chroot | Apr 28 13:43 |
| DaemonFC | don't need a chroot | Apr 28 13:43 |
| oiaohm | Yes chroot for 32 bit support. | Apr 28 13:43 |
| DaemonFC | jsut ia32-libs | Apr 28 13:43 |
| oiaohm | ia32-libs | Apr 28 13:43 |
| oiaohm | That has it. | Apr 28 13:43 |
| DaemonFC | that's not a chroot | Apr 28 13:43 |
| DaemonFC | it's jsut some libraries | Apr 28 13:43 |
| DaemonFC | it'll work with 99% of the software out there | Apr 28 13:44 |
| DaemonFC | very few people need to use a chroot | Apr 28 13:44 |
| DaemonFC | If you find an article telling you to use a chroot | Apr 28 13:44 |
| DaemonFC | it'll be 4-5 years old | Apr 28 13:44 |
| oiaohm | There is a way with ia32-lib to still use the chroot when needed. | Apr 28 13:45 |
| oiaohm | Included with it. | Apr 28 13:45 |
| oiaohm | For those odd ball apps. | Apr 28 13:45 |
| DaemonFC | OpenSuse has the most mismanaged, mangled, and missing support for 32-bit x86 | Apr 28 13:46 |
| DaemonFC | you're almost guaranteed to have conflicting packages when you're done | Apr 28 13:46 |
| DaemonFC | I tried it out after clicking on an ad for OpenSuse that said "Linux where you don't need to chroot, chown, or chmod anything" | Apr 28 13:47 |
| DaemonFC | and the first app I installed I had to use all three | Apr 28 13:47 |
| DaemonFC | lol | Apr 28 13:47 |
| oiaohm | There is worse. | Apr 28 13:47 |
| DaemonFC | OpenSuse is a gulag for anyone that's been pampered by Debian/Ubuntu or even other RPM distributions | Apr 28 13:48 |
| oiaohm | Install 64 bit kernel on 32 bit Linux then have Nvidia drivers refuse to install. | Apr 28 13:48 |
| oiaohm | Even that everything else works. | Apr 28 13:48 |
| DaemonFC | heh, that's how Fedora 11 goes by default | Apr 28 13:48 |
| DaemonFC | if you install 32-bit version and it detects an x86-64 CPU | Apr 28 13:49 |
| DaemonFC | it puts in the x86-64 kernel | Apr 28 13:49 |
| oiaohm | Nvidia drivers. | Apr 28 13:49 |
| oiaohm | 64 bit version of drivers cannot install without 64 bit libs. | Apr 28 13:49 |
| oiaohm | So you make a small 64 bit envorment so you can install the buggers. | Apr 28 13:49 |
| DaemonFC | well, they wouldn't be doing that if it stopped you from using drivers | Apr 28 13:49 |
| DaemonFC | so they must have it rigged somehow | Apr 28 13:49 |
| oiaohm | Fedora 11 very small section of 64 bit support. | Apr 28 13:50 |
| oiaohm | Debian none with pure 32 bit install. | Apr 28 13:50 |
| DaemonFC | if a reviewer can't install Nvidia drivers, they'll attack immediately | Apr 28 13:50 |
| DaemonFC | without even reading any documentation | Apr 28 13:50 |
| DaemonFC | Debian has some | Apr 28 13:50 |
| oiaohm | debain 32 bit install. | Apr 28 13:50 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | Apr 28 13:51 |
| oiaohm | With 64 bit kernel. Nvidia drivers don't install. | Apr 28 13:51 |
| oiaohm | I know first hand. | Apr 28 13:51 |
| oiaohm | Lots of fun. | Apr 28 13:51 |
| oiaohm | I really hope open source ATI drivers work well soon. | Apr 28 13:52 |
| DaemonFC | they listed the AMD64 features the x86 version of Debian supports at one point | Apr 28 13:52 |
| DaemonFC | not many obviously, but some | Apr 28 13:52 |
| oiaohm | AMD64 bit kernel in the 32 bit install. | Apr 28 13:52 |
| oiaohm | With that nvidia drivers barf. | Apr 28 13:52 |
| oiaohm | No kernel building required to stuff it. | Apr 28 13:53 |
| oiaohm | Really thinking nvidia drivers have a bash script start up they could make the x86-64 bit driver duel mode. | Apr 28 13:54 |
| oiaohm | http://www.hitl.washington.edu... I really need to play with this. | Apr 28 13:57 |
| schestowitz | Obama plays ball for megacorps again: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/... | Apr 28 14:09 |
| oiaohm | http://www.tinycorelinux.com/ Linux distrobutions for those sardine class machines out there. | Apr 28 14:10 |