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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: July 23rd, 2008

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schestowitzHere is another possible Microsoft crime (new one that confirms my suspicions): 23 05:19
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kentmaschestowitz: what was it you had yesterday, Roy?Jul 23 10:23
schestowitzThe editor of Linux Today chose to link to the site and one fast response was an attack on the editor with libellous accusations against me. It was the same libellous claims that are seen in COLA, so I suspect that the COLA trolls continue to try blacklisting the site.Jul 23 10:26
kentmaAhh, okay - do you have the URL still?Jul 23 10:26
schestowitzYes, it's . Read the other replies (Hit "Back to headline") and see that it's a misfit. The trolls tried all sorts of other things too. Gary Stewart (flatfish), for example, accused the site of being aTrojan amd Timmy called it SPAM over at Digg.Jul 23 10:28
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schestowitzYou then find that the tactics are a case of poisoning, just as COLA gets littered with foul stuff. As for Groklaw, false accusations were made about it (DDOS attacks) to have it blacklisted and then came the "Groklaw is an IBM site" smears.Jul 23 10:29
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schestowitzHey, br.Jul 23 10:38
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kentmaYou've really got the URL sifting and linking off to a fine art here, Roy.   I think that the couple of years of news article collection is really paying off well - it's so much harder to hide now!Jul 23 10:39
kentmaBtw, I've left a counter-remark on LT now.Jul 23 10:39
schestowitzOh, thanks. I'll watch.Jul 23 10:43
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schestowitzI'm about to post something about a Microsoft attack.Jul 23 11:00
schestowitzThat company still operates like some mafia.Jul 23 11:00
blackrabbithello schestowitz, how do you mean?Jul 23 11:01
schestowitzThey attack bloggers.Jul 23 11:01
schestowitzSay something they dislike, be attacked.Jul 23 11:01
blackrabbitMore people should make use of Tor over SSL for bloggingJul 23 11:01
schestowitzAs GL put it the other day, "everyone resisting OOXML must be some extremist anti-Microsoft zealot" (not exact quote)Jul 23 11:02
schestowitzAssuming only that they need privacy.Jul 23 11:02
schestowitzLike freedom, privacy is a tradeoff working against convenience. If not done properly, it's pointless cause you need to get exposed just once.Jul 23 11:03
blackrabbitschestowitz, this assumes people would place themselves in a position to be exposedJul 23 11:03
blackrabbiteveryone can, with the proper know how, blog anonymouslyJul 23 11:03
schestowitzWhat if you own the domain?Jul 23 11:05
blackrabbityou shouldn'tJul 23 11:05
blackrabbitunless you're in a country where you may remain anonymousJul 23 11:05
schestowitzAnd by the way, Google sold out its users to the police beofre.Jul 23 11:05
kentmaMy problem with that approach is that once you start hiding, then the risk of being "exposed" becomes significant.Jul 23 11:05
schestowitzOr you have spies coming to youir house to dig dirt.Jul 23 11:06
blackrabbitwhich is why there's tor, ssl, sshJul 23 11:06
blackrabbitfollow the guidelines to proper anonymous bloggingJul 23 11:07
blackrabbityou're doing it wrong if you post your face and name to the blogJul 23 11:07
blackrabbit"Look at me, I'm Joe! I want to be famous!"Jul 23 11:07
blackrabbitthis is the wrong way to expose corruptionJul 23 11:07
schestowitzNo.Jul 23 11:07
blackrabbithidden services which tor offers is also valuableJul 23 11:07
blackrabbitbut less knownJul 23 11:07
blackrabbit.onion domainsJul 23 11:07
blackrabbitWikileaks has mirrors thereJul 23 11:08
schestowitzFor one thing, you can't hide atfter your name is out.Jul 23 11:08
schestowitzI started this not anonymously because I helped people with Linux (technical stuff), not advocated it or studied Microsoft's abuse.Jul 23 11:08
blackrabbitI'm not discussing your public presenceJul 23 11:09
blackrabbitit's important for some to make themselves knownJul 23 11:09
kentmaWikileaks is intended for people stuck in corporations or governements who want a safe way of whistle-blowing.  This is not the same as blogging with an alternative persona.Jul 23 11:09
blackrabbittake Richard Stallman for exampleJul 23 11:09
blackrabbitthese are people, like you, who are visible and inspire othersJul 23 11:09
blackrabbitkentma, this assumes the individual would adopt an alternative persona rather than a blog without a persona assignedJul 23 11:10
blackrabbitI never suggested using google for blogging anonymouslyJul 23 11:10
schestowitzAnonymity is a dream.Jul 23 11:11
kentmablackrabbit: not really what I meant.  my feeling is that if you start blogging "anonymously", then by definition, you're exposing a facet of yourself which is otherwise hidden, hence it's an alternative persona.  It's not about the visible baggage, rather, about the viewpoints and personality which make up the person who is blogging.Jul 23 11:11
schestowitzAny page you visit is a footprint.Jul 23 11:11
blackrabbitconsidering the amount of data google collects, why would an anonymous blogger choose google?Jul 23 11:11
schestowitzRMS doesn't even browse the Web now (he used wget on a server that mails him pages)Jul 23 11:12
schestowitzPJ won't visit Sys-con. Instewad, people like me send her copies (by mail) of all the slime. There's the issue of IP harvesting, which also affects GL readers.Jul 23 11:12
blackrabbitI was mentioning RMS as a visible figurehead and the importance of individuals, not his browsing habitsJul 23 11:12
schestowitzI flush logs every night.Jul 23 11:12
blackrabbitwhy retain them at all?Jul 23 11:13
schestowitzThe host generates visual logs from them every night (no raw data, just graphs).Jul 23 11:13
schestowitzThen again, Google is there tracking (AdSense). It wasn't my idea, but Shane put it there to pay the bills (since day 1).Jul 23 11:14
blackrabbityes, any page you visit is a footprint, and for some, this footprint is in ram and the ip is an exit node or a tor client behind several dozen proxiesJul 23 11:15
schestowitzI think anonymity is an invitation for trouble.Jul 23 11:16
blackrabbitonly to the uninitiatedJul 23 11:17
schestowitzIt begs the question: why does the person hide in the first place? What are the professional affiliations? No restraints?Jul 23 11:17
kentmayou need logs in order to do maintenance.Jul 23 11:17
schestowitzSecurity?Jul 23 11:17
schestowitzEither way, I've seen how people use logs to trap people.Jul 23 11:17
kentmablackrabbit: what will you do when you get found out?  do you have a plan? (assuming that you do blog anonymously, that is)Jul 23 11:18
schestowitzI can't go into specifics here, but there was an attempt to expose Microsoft Munnchins some months ago, so people wanted me to use my logs (which I don't have).Jul 23 11:18
schestowitzMicrosoft is probably running some smear campaigns along with its partners, using anonymous blogs and nymshifters.Jul 23 11:19
blackrabbitkentma, I don't participate in anonymous blogging, and were I to do so, I wouldn't divulge sensitive exit strategies to a logged channelJul 23 11:19
blackrabbitI'm merely exercising my fingersJul 23 11:19
schestowitzblackrabbit: is your name Bruce Schneier? ;-)Jul 23 11:20
kentmablackrabbit: then how can you recommend it for others? (anonymous blogging, that is!)?Jul 23 11:20
blackrabbitI don't have a nameJul 23 11:20
blackrabbitnor a faceJul 23 11:20
blackrabbitnor anything at allJul 23 11:20
schestowitzI see...Jul 23 11:20
blackrabbitkentma, I can because done right, it worksJul 23 11:20
schestowitzHeard of Rich the Patent Troll Tracker?Jul 23 11:20
schestowitzDo you know how he got exposed and then sued along with Cisco?Jul 23 11:21
schestowitz*RickJul 23 11:21
blackrabbitWas this in a recent slashdot post?Jul 23 11:21
kentmablackrabbit: you only have to go wrong once, and it's over - statistically, this is pretty much guaranteed to fail in the end.Jul 23 11:21
blackrabbitkentma, yes. failure is in the mind of the loserJul 23 11:22
schestowitzRick had a millionaire patent troll (earth-level scum) put a bounty on his head.Jul 23 11:22
kentmablackrabbit: failure in terms of anonymous blogging would be in the mind of everyone, and indeed, in the public eye, too.Jul 23 11:22
schestowitzSame with data leaks. One leak, one stolen USB key or whatever and *poof* all citizens in the UK are 'naked'Jul 23 11:23
blackrabbitthis assumes one has a medium able to be stolenJul 23 11:23
blackrabbitthose who rely on electronic based security methods in sensitive areas always failJul 23 11:23
blackrabbitwireless is out and running cables is out, power can always be cutJul 23 11:24
blackrabbitif they want information bad enough, they'll read it off the reflection of your eyeJul 23 11:24
schestowitzOr engage in waterboarding, which Mr Bush now approves.Jul 23 11:24
kentmablackrabbit: the only way of remaining anonymous is to remain silent.  Anything else has a discernable risk of exposure - you can minimise it, but you can never remove it.Jul 23 11:24
blackrabbitcrafty people depending on your area of expertiseJul 23 11:24
blackrabbitkentma, a silent blogger is not a blogger at allJul 23 11:25
kentmablackrabbit: an anonymous blogger is only anonymous for so long.Jul 23 11:25
blackrabbitschestowitz, this assumes the blogger is within the US or is blogging about US interestsJul 23 11:25
schestowitzblackrabbit: what about back doors?Jul 23 11:25
schestowitzAt PC level?Jul 23 11:25
blackrabbithardware level of courseJul 23 11:26
blackrabbitand the wonderfully closed biosJul 23 11:26
blackrabbitbut we're going deep into tin hattery hereJul 23 11:26
schestowitzThat too. Also packet level (encryption has back doors sometimes).Jul 23 11:26
blackrabbitI do not anonymously blog, so the subject is of no further interest to meJul 23 11:26
schestowitzAll provable by the way (I could fetch my refs)Jul 23 11:26
blackrabbityour microsoft post you mentioned earlier, though, is schestowitzJul 23 11:26
blackrabbitcertainlyJul 23 11:27
kentmablackrabbit: then you have no real experience in this at all?Jul 23 11:27
blackrabbitbelieve what you wishJul 23 11:27
schestowitzApart from the text?Jul 23 11:27
kentmablackrabbit: pardon?Jul 23 11:27
schestowitzPCs and networks are engineered around control.Jul 23 11:27
blackrabbitkentma, you have your belief, I'm not here to sway itJul 23 11:28
schestowitzSPAMMERS are sheltered only by layers of complexity and scale.Jul 23 11:28
kentmablackrabbit: err, no, it's what you said...Jul 23 11:28
blackrabbitmy interest here is in schestowitz's website and discussion of itJul 23 11:28
schestowitzIf they use many bots and a chain of proxies they can still be found. But when 320000000 zombie PCs exist, where does one start? It can be done, either way.Jul 23 11:28
blackrabbitanything is possibleJul 23 11:29
kentmablackrabbit: you said that you do not blog anonymously, but you also were adamant that it could be done.  Ergo, you have no experience of it, and are merely speculating.  This is what you said, not my belief of anything.Jul 23 11:29
blackrabbitkentma, believe what you wishJul 23 11:29
kentmablackrabbit: you said that you do not blog anonymously, but you also were adamant that it could be done.  Ergo, you have no experience of it, and are merely speculating.  This is what you said, not my belief of anything.Jul 23 11:29
blackrabbitschestowitz, why would you say Schneier?Jul 23 11:29
blackrabbitkentma, it can be done, yes, I am not on here to prove anythingJul 23 11:30
schestowitzAbout you? Just a joke. I think he's overrated but I like his writings.Jul 23 11:30
kentmablackrabbit: But as you've never done it, you don't actually have any experience, so you're guessing.Jul 23 11:30
blackrabbitkentma, for the last time, believe as you wishJul 23 11:30
schestowitzAnonymous blogging is as possible as your host/admin/cops/govt want it to be.Jul 23 11:30
kentmablackrabbit: this is not about my beliefs, sorry - this is about your claims.Jul 23 11:30
kentmablackrabbit: you claim to be sure about being able to blog anonymously, and yet you say you've never done it.  The only possible conclusion, assuming you're not being dishonest, is that you're guessing.Jul 23 11:31
blackrabbitthis assumes the local interests are interested enough in said bloggingJul 23 11:31
blackrabbitlet's say I wanted to anonymously blog about rabbitsJul 23 11:32
blackrabbitwhat then?Jul 23 11:32
kentmablackrabbit: no, exposure can readily be by accident.  It's about probabilities, that's all.Jul 23 11:32
blackrabbitwho would care enough to find the blogger who loves rabbits?Jul 23 11:32
schestowitzThere's always some McCreevy type to serve interest like a satellite, inter-continental even.Jul 23 11:32
blackrabbitand why would they care?Jul 23 11:32
blackrabbitindeedJul 23 11:33
schestowitzRabbits?Jul 23 11:33
blackrabbitsatellites are funJul 23 11:33
blackrabbityes, rabbitsJul 23 11:33
schestowitzWho would complain? Rabbits that you slander?Jul 23 11:33
blackrabbitan overly mundane exampleJul 23 11:33
blackrabbithehJul 23 11:33
schestowitzIt has to have monetary or personal incentive.Jul 23 11:33
blackrabbitkentma, sure, I'm guessing, will this end the discussion?Jul 23 11:33
kentmablackrabbit: you still miss the point about probabilities - monetary advantage doesn't need to come into it at all.Jul 23 11:33
schestowitzSeen what they did to PJ.. or to Geer...?Jul 23 11:34
blackrabbitkentma, it's not my final word on it, but anything to end the spotlight of accusationJul 23 11:34
kentmablackrabbit: thankyou - I presume it's safe to ignore the rest of it, then.Jul 23 11:34
schestowitzJust give me 5 minutes and I'll blog about it.Jul 23 11:34
kentmaschestowitz: anonymously or openly :-)Jul 23 11:34
blackrabbitlolJul 23 11:35
blackrabbitit would be amusing if the name and photo of schestowitz was fakeJul 23 11:35
schestowitzI thought about it before.Jul 23 11:35
kentmaah, but I happen to know that they're not - I've met Roy.Jul 23 11:35
schestowitzI was accused some times of not existing.Jul 23 11:35
schestowitzkentma: yesterday the trolls accused me of being [H]omer Jul 23 11:36
blackrabbityou get trolls in here?Jul 23 11:36
schestowitzNot here, but in the advocacy newsgroup.Jul 23 11:36
kentmaschestowitz: anything to upset, I think.  Most of their approach seems to be to draw out some kind of angry response in order to be able to hold it against people.Jul 23 11:36
kentmaany pretence of debating facts was abandoned long long ago in cola.Jul 23 11:37
schestowitzSome are former Microsoft employees. They invade Linux fora.Jul 23 11:37
kentmablackrabbit: take a look in cola, but keep your tin hat on - it's dreadful.Jul 23 11:37
blackrabbitI may take a peekJul 23 11:37
schestowitzkentma: that;s why I don't reply, no matter the insult or libel.Jul 23 11:37
schestowitz 23 11:38
kentmaschestowitz: I do try to ignore whereever possible.Jul 23 11:38
blackrabbitis there any documented reference to anyone working for Microsoft who has leaked information, gaining employment in order to leak?Jul 23 11:38
kentmablackrabbit: the hallowe'en documents were clearly leaked, although I don't know why.Jul 23 11:38
blackrabbitcorporations plant people at rivals all of the timeJul 23 11:38
blackrabbitbut I'm curious if there's ever been any leakers with the intent to leakJul 23 11:39
kentmablackrabbit: interesting remark - something myself and colleagues have speculated on for a long time - do you have any actual proof of this which can be exposed?Jul 23 11:39
blackrabbitproof of whichJul 23 11:39
blackrabbitcorporate plants?Jul 23 11:39
kentmayesJul 23 11:39
blackrabbitisn't this covered in any real business course?Jul 23 11:40
blackrabbitthat sort of thing happens all of the timeJul 23 11:40
blackrabbitit's dramatized in hollywood but it is part of the workings of big businessJul 23 11:40
kentmaI know the theory, but I mean actual proof...  documents, payment proof, contracts, even emails, anything at all?Jul 23 11:41
blackrabbitone could google I supposeJul 23 11:41
schestowitzblackrabbit: if you need documents, just ask.Jul 23 11:41
schestowitzWe have a gold mine.Jul 23 11:41
kentmaschestowitz: of planted workers?Jul 23 11:41
schestowitzblackrabbit: Sen and VMWare are ruined by plants.Jul 23 11:42
schestowitzRon Hovsepian too might be an example.Jul 23 11:42 covered this before.Jul 23 11:42
blackrabbitschestowitz, may I suggest a brief article with some links regarding this topic?Jul 23 11:42
blackrabbitschestowitz, a side article perhapsJul 23 11:42
schestowitzAccording to one professor whom I correspond with, Microsoft is doing the same thing to Google at the moment.Jul 23 11:42
blackrabbitschestowitz, to stroke the imagination of where this could occur todayJul 23 11:42
blackrabbitschestowitz, was this also done to Novell?Jul 23 11:43
blackrabbitto Linspire?Jul 23 11:43
blackrabbitbetter still, to Xandros?Jul 23 11:43
schestowitzblackrabbit: it would have to be a set of links.Jul 23 11:43
schestowitzLike the Microsoft finance post, which received _a lot_ of unexpected attention (I only did it because a reader asked), it's a rerun of old info.Jul 23 11:44
schestowitzI don't know about Linspire.Jul 23 11:44
kentmaahh, lots of smoke, but yet no fire.Jul 23 11:44
schestowitzIn FOSS: also be careful of OpenLogic (Microsoft roots in the CEO), Black Duck (CEO from Microsoft), and a variety of other projects.Jul 23 11:45
schestowitzSourceForce along with NewsForge seems to be going through a similar transition at the moment.Jul 23 11:45
schestowitzDo we need fire? Let me think..Jul 23 11:45
blackrabbityesJul 23 11:46
schestowitzI guess the only gun you can pull is one where a Microsoft staffer expresses intent to poison a rival using workforce.Jul 23 11:46
schestowitzI don't know of an Iowa exhibit of this nature and, either way, it would be out of date (rivals that Microsoft had put in the grave already)Jul 23 11:47
schestowitztake VMWare for example.Jul 23 11:47
schestowitzAll we have is strong circumstational evidence.Jul 23 11:47
kentmaOh, I'm quite sure that this is going on, don't misunderstand me, but I'd *love* to get my hands on some proof.Jul 23 11:47
schestowitzI use it only as an example that's most recent.. They sacked Diane shortly after EMC had become Microsoft's Partner of the Year.Jul 23 11:48
blackrabbitsure, a brief posting of links would sufficeJul 23 11:48
blackrabbitI'm wondering how long Ubuntu and Red Hat will hold outJul 23 11:48
schestowitzMonths beforehand I was stunned to find Maritz sneaking into EMC (WTF????). It's almost like they had it all planned and did it in stages.Jul 23 11:49
schestowitzUbuntu's problem is different.Jul 23 11:49
blackrabbithehJul 23 11:49
schestowitzThey don't employ the de Icaza's (though they used to have Jeff Waugh) but them and RHAT/Fedora get Miguels's junk code (Mono), which is poison.Jul 23 11:49
kentmaUbuntu and Red Hat will remain staunchly independent of MS, I'm 100% sure.Jul 23 11:50
schestowitzI'm going to post about Debian later. They push away Mono. Finally.Jul 23 11:50
blackrabbityes, there have been many calls by users to dump mono in UbuntuJul 23 11:50
schestowitzPartly thanks to our efforts in 23 11:50
blackrabbitI forgot to mention DebianJul 23 11:50
blackrabbitkentma, minus the codecs/dell issueJul 23 11:50
schestowitzI didn't buy my PC from Dell. I only checked.Jul 23 11:51
kentmaeven Debian have installers for such things, though.Jul 23 11:51
blackrabbitI'm surprised the MS gorilla hasn't thrown a banana at the Wine projectJul 23 11:51
kentmasimilarly, such as maemo have kernel drivers which are proprietary.Jul 23 11:51
blackrabbitand I don't mean by way of supportJul 23 11:51
schestowitzThey STILL offer just F*** Intel.. and guess that?? They were caught last year doing a bribery thing with Intel. No probe, nio imprisonment, no compensation of angry investors.Jul 23 11:51
kentmablackrabbit: I think they're happy for it to exist - it proves that there is competition in the market...Jul 23 11:52
blackrabbittrueJul 23 11:52
blackrabbitWhat has Microsoft offered to Linux, in interoperability, other than words and a forum?Jul 23 11:52
blackrabbitWhere is directx for linux?Jul 23 11:52
blackrabbitWhere is IE for linux?Jul 23 11:52
blackrabbitWhere is Office for Linux?Jul 23 11:52
schestowitzNokia is out there in OSCON I think... trying to steal developers for Symbian (Open EclipsourceBS)Jul 23 11:52
schestowitzSpeaking of which, Maemo will have an event in Berlin soon.Jul 23 11:52
blackrabbitYes, I was amused by the Nokia/Symbian open sourcing announcementJul 23 11:53
kentmaI know - I got the invite a few days ago...Jul 23 11:53
schestowitzblackrabbit: Apple could ask the same question.Jul 23 11:53
blackrabbitIndeedJul 23 11:53
blackrabbitI refuse to buy anything from AppleJul 23 11:53
blackrabbitor use anything from AppleJul 23 11:53
schestowitzSeen their deal? I have the video. They /USED/ Apple to make monopolyware have 100% market share... Office, IE...Jul 23 11:53
schestowitzApple is sadly enough glorified in the press.Jul 23 11:54
kentmaI'm not a huge apple fan, although they do make good quality hardware.  My no1 son is a major apple fan, though, has a powerpcg2 and a mini.Jul 23 11:54
schestowitzIt's portrayed as the saver from monopoly, but the issue of iTunes/iPod monopoly is ignored, not to mention DRM.Jul 23 11:54
schestowitzGoogle too is a proprietary software monopoly.Jul 23 11:54
schestowitzIBM is in-between and Sun is getting quite good actually.Jul 23 11:55
kentmagoogle stand to lose from the agpl, if it ever gets traction.Jul 23 11:55
schestowitzIt already does.Jul 23 11:55
schestowitzAdoption was expected to be minuscule, but it's now eating GPLv3's lunch.Jul 23 11:55
blackrabbitApple has the moneyJul 23 11:56
blackrabbitif you have the money you have money to market a clean and nice figureJul 23 11:56
kentmaapple's margins are huge.Jul 23 11:56
schestowitzApple too is a big advertisers, but the people who are fans drive adoption and publicity.Jul 23 11:56
kentmaapple are like B&O.Jul 23 11:56
schestowitzOn the bright side, Apple just ignores Linux; it doesn't attack it, yet.Jul 23 11:56
blackrabbitwhat repulsed me was the mac vs. pc adsJul 23 11:56
blackrabbitas if there was only a gates presence on the pcJul 23 11:56
schestowitzYes.Jul 23 11:57
blackrabbitI'm curious why Apple hasn't adopted LinuxJul 23 11:57
schestowitzWell, Microsoft butters both sides of the toast. Microsoft likes Apple for the effect on FOSS.Jul 23 11:57
blackrabbitIf they were really in competition with MS and not a partnerJul 23 11:57
schestowitzMicrosoft can use Apple to promote IPR.Jul 23 11:57
schestowitzIt's an investor, too.Jul 23 11:57
schestowitzblackrabbit: the engineers at Apple wanted Linux.Jul 23 11:57
schestowitzWith iPhone coming, it's clear why Job rejected Linux... GPL!Jul 23 11:58
kentmablackrabbit: they're a proprietary company with huge margins - linux is about selling services not software - if they can keep their margins whilst adopting BSD code, from a business perspective, then it makes sense to milk it whilst they can.Jul 23 11:58
schestowitzThe iPhone is a Tivo machine in your pocket.Jul 23 11:58
blackrabbitkentma, wouldn't it make sense to deliver specialized hardware directly developed for Linux?Jul 23 11:58
kentmaThe iPhone has an amazing model - Apple make money out every call you make or message you send.Jul 23 11:58
schestowitzApple goes for upper crust though.Jul 23 11:59
schestowitzThey know they can't beat Linux.Jul 23 11:59
kentmablackrabbit: it might well do, but for Apple, they're used to controlling from the top to the bottom, so going in half-way up is just not what they would do.  Their customers seem to expect them to do this, too.Jul 23 11:59
schestowitzIt's a niche market assuming that now everyone buys a new PC and gadgets. Microsoft addresses this 'issue' by doing bogus 'charity'. Have our binary... send ous data... be addicted.Jul 23 11:59
kentmawhat's amazing about apple for me is how people will pay so much money for something where there are clearly much less expensive alternatives which are just as capable.Jul 23 12:00
kentmaI think when people buy apple, like B&O or Rolls Royce or Cartier or Yves Saint Laurent or Gucci, they're buying a lifestyle, rather than a machine.Jul 23 12:01
blackrabbitschestowitz, what was this post you were mentioning earlier about?Jul 23 12:01
blackrabbitcorrectJul 23 12:02
blackrabbitit's the perceptionJul 23 12:02
schestowitzkentma: they buy a dream, not a lifestyle.Jul 23 12:02
blackrabbitthey say ooooo it's unixJul 23 12:02
blackrabbitbut it's unix with proprietary mixedJul 23 12:03
schestowitzWhy else would people pay for champagne 10 times what they pay for regular wine?Jul 23 12:03
kentmaschestowitz: people seem willing to pay a lot more for a dream than they do for a reality.  Maybe this is why engineers and scientists are so poor at marketing generally.Jul 23 12:03
schestowitzYou are not allowed to display Mac products in certain ways. The perception must be controlled. Microsoft tried similar stuff with Vista.Jul 23 12:03
schestowitzkentma: limousine fantasies and prom nights are good examples of this.Jul 23 12:04
blackrabbitkentma, returning briefly to what we were discussing earlier, have you read the paper on peculiar means to garnish information from the screen of a computer?Jul 23 12:05
schestowitz"Be a Prince... for a few hours... having worked for weeks or months." But anyway, that's nor the point. It's the same everywhere in society. it's a social thing -- government-imposed control of minds.Jul 23 12:05
kentmablackrabbit: I recall the project to monitor television scan information remotely, and visually reproduce it - is that the one you mean?Jul 23 12:05
blackrabbitthe use of telescopes and gleaning of information from reflective surfaces in the user's environment, teapots and even the human eyeJul 23 12:05
blackrabbitit's a fascinating articleJul 23 12:05
schestowitzJust watch the portrayals of war films and use of viole nt games to spur recruitment of soldiers.Jul 23 12:05
blackrabbitthat is TEMPEST, differentJul 23 12:06
kentmablackrabbit: ahh, no, I've not seen that one - if you have a ref, I'd be interested.Jul 23 12:06
kentmablackrabbit: did you see the project to remotely monitor television pictures at all?Jul 23 12:06
blackrabbitallow me to check my links, if I don't have it on hand I may be able to reproduce it later for youJul 23 12:06
kentmaI would appreciate that, thankyou.Jul 23 12:06
blackrabbitthis is TEMPEST you're referring toJul 23 12:06
blackrabbitgoogle eckboxJul 23 12:06
blackrabbitthere were similar projects but they were... silenced or abandonedJul 23 12:07
blackrabbitthere's also tempest for eliza program which crudely demonstrates the possibility of thisJul 23 12:07
blackrabbitwelcomeJul 23 12:07
blackrabbitI'm not sure, having never acquired the hardware nor would I, that eckbox worksJul 23 12:07
blackrabbitwere I employed legally to perform the work, it would be interestingJul 23 12:07
blackrabbitbutJul 23 12:07
blackrabbitin using reflections in the user's environment it's easierJul 23 12:08
blackrabbitin nearby objects and the user's eyeJul 23 12:08
blackrabbityou can gain information from the user's screenJul 23 12:08
blackrabbitit's interesting stuffJul 23 12:08
blackrabbitthe paper was short, but detailed enough for a glimpseJul 23 12:08
kentmaI suppose that as the eye is somewhat reflective, given the right optics, it ought to be possible to resolve information from that.Jul 23 12:09
blackrabbitthis might be itJul 23 12:09
blackrabbitplease look and tell me if it shows a photo of reflections on household items of the computer screen and the user's eye:Jul 23 12:09
blackrabbit 23 12:09
kentmaI would've thought that the difficulty would be tracking the eye & head movements.Jul 23 12:10
kentmayes, you're right - it's about using refflections to find out what was on a display.Jul 23 12:11
blackrabbitsuperb, I'm happy to have found it againJul 23 12:11
kentmaIt does say that readability is limited by camera resolution for eye-shot images, but presumably that will also depend on being quite still as the image is captured.Jul 23 12:11
blackrabbitI know I have it on backups but forgot the locationJul 23 12:11
kentmaheheJul 23 12:11
blackrabbitcorrect, but high powered telescopes are able to catch a lot of infoJul 23 12:12
blackrabbitcoupled with a digital camera integrated into such deviceJul 23 12:12
blackrabbitto me it's a fascinating area of researchJul 23 12:12
blackrabbitLCD monitors are in no way exempt from tempest btwJul 23 12:12
blackrabbitthese tricks are more decloaking methods used to unveil anonymous bloggers or people of interestJul 23 12:13
blackrabbitbut social engineering is usually enoughJul 23 12:13
kentmaah, it also goes on to say that as the eye moves rapidly, the images get blurred... ;-)Jul 23 12:13
schestowitzblackrabbit: just posted that thing I told you I would: 23 12:13
blackrabbitjust insert an attractive female into the person's life, interested in their computer expertiseJul 23 12:13
blackrabbitthank you schestowitz how kind of youJul 23 12:14
blackrabbit"My, you're sure handy with that computer! Teach me how to blog anonymously!" wink winkJul 23 12:14
blackrabbitor one afternoon chatting over the computer in questionJul 23 12:14
blackrabbithello backdoor!Jul 23 12:14
schestowitzI'm going to write about Debian and Mono now. Long piece.Jul 23 12:14
blackrabbitor disk imageJul 23 12:14
blackrabbitschestowitz, excellent, how about a brief article about company plants?Jul 23 12:15
blackrabbitor links?Jul 23 12:15
schestowitzHmmm...Jul 23 12:15
blackrabbitkentma, how many comatose web surfers do you know whose eyes blink often or move rapidly?Jul 23 12:15
schestowitzLet's make a list: Xen (I have some refs about Redmond the Microsoft GM plant)... VMWare.... Novell (Miguel and Nat... I used to suspect Steinman too because of Groklaw... but then Hovsepian came out through a leak from a source I cannot name)... Jul 23 12:16
kentmaeye movement isn't directly controlled, though - it's dominated by hard-wired brain reactions.  It's virtually impossible to ignore movement.Jul 23 12:16
blackrabbita dozen hours of video data should trim off the fat of those brief periods of rapid movementJul 23 12:16
schestowitzAbout Debian, I think I'll close comments, or else the Mono fans will start flaming.Jul 23 12:16
kentmablackrabbit: also, as we're not insects, we have to turn our heads to locate sound-sources (we only detect pressure, not direction), so the head moves quite a lot naturally, too.Jul 23 12:17
blackrabbitschestowitz, good ideaJul 23 12:19
kentmaIt's a good paper.  It also serves to reinforce my view that if you want to keep something secret, then don't document it in any way, and never telll anyone.Jul 23 12:21
kentmaThe "tempest" stuff has been in use in MI5 since the late 1940s/early 1950s.  Basic eavesdropping was commonplace in the 1940s, Bletchley Park being the centre of the UK's activities.Jul 23 12:23
blackrabbitthat defeats the purpose of informing people thoughJul 23 12:23
kentmaindeed - my point being that informing people openly is much safer, is you can't be "outed".Jul 23 12:24
blackrabbitthe tempest stuff doesn't interest me as much as other means of physical monitoring and social engineeringJul 23 12:24
blackrabbit 23 12:25
blackrabbitI disagreeJul 23 12:25
kentmaThe russians had a really brilliant passive microphone, which when illuminated with suitable microwave radation, would modulate the beam with audio from the room it was in and re-radiate it for remote pick-up.  The other interesting audio one is shining a laser on a window and decoding modulation from the reflected beam.Jul 23 12:25
kentmadisagree with what?Jul 23 12:25
blackrabbitwith a thread I don't wish to continueJul 23 12:27
blackrabbitI simply disagree with a public presence vs. a pseudo-anonymous presence in delivering informationJul 23 12:28
blackrabbitI don't wish to argue itJul 23 12:28
blackrabbitMLK wasn't anonymous eitherJul 23 12:28
blackrabbitsure, he could've been outedJul 23 12:28
schestowitzInformation without a face has its credibility powered.Jul 23 12:28
schestowitzSafety and credibility are a case of antagonism.Jul 23 12:29
blackrabbitinstead, by being public, they tried to drive him to suicideJul 23 12:29
schestowitzJust watch how Wikileaks is challenged.Jul 23 12:29
schestowitzOops. /s/powered/lowered/Jul 23 12:29
kentmaThe abuse of legal power to stop whilst-blowing needs to be challenged.  Going anonymous merely serves to accept the status-quo, to my mind.Jul 23 12:30
kentma*whistleJul 23 12:30
schestowitzYes, but go ahead and try to change the system.Jul 23 12:31
schestowitzIt's easier to provide samples of information for tose with the power to change it.Jul 23 12:32
schestowitzFor example, ushering a lawsuit against BSI by showing how it got f*ed by Microsoft and its partners in the UK.Jul 23 12:32
kentmaschestowitz: I agree  with you, of course.  What I do not really agree with is that remaining anonymous is likely to help, since it undermines the information signficantly, as well as leaving the informant at risk of being exposed anyway.Jul 23 12:35
schestowitzYes.Jul 23 12:36
kentmaI can see that, in some geographies, anonymity might be the only way, but even that is going to be extremely difficult to achieve, since governments can pretty much do what they want in the name of "security".Jul 23 12:36
kentmaThe worst thing is that the more the need to be anonymous is important, so the greater the need for exposure - the name for this is dissidence, btw.Jul 23 12:37
schestowitzWell, passing of liability by referencing everything is easy (I hate 'articles' because by their nature, just like newspapers, they omit bibliography)..Jul 23 12:37
schestowitzRSS feeds are a wonderful thing for accumulation of pertinent facts and quotes.... from people's own mouths.Jul 23 12:38
kentmaIncidentally, the shift in USPTO patent position is massive...  has anyone realised just how big this is?Jul 23 12:39
schestowitzGlyn didJul 23 12:39
schestowitzI trust him on that one.Jul 23 12:39
schestowitzGroklaw put it in Picks, but hasn't blogged it (yet?)Jul 23 12:40
kentmaI've just banged this over to our legal folk for their consideration, too.Jul 23 12:40
schestowitzI wrote about it a few hours ago: 23 12:40
schestowitzI thought about domino effect... as in... Australia, Japan...Jul 23 12:41
schestowitzGlyn says he's not yet ready to pop the champagne. That's his expression of cautious optimism anyway.Jul 23 12:42
schestowitzAlmost there with Debian now. I'll close comments.Jul 23 12:49
schestowitzDone. 23 12:56
blackrabbitthis is also of interest, kentmaJul 23 12:58
blackrabbit 23 12:58
blackrabbitStasi used radioactive spray to track dissidents - TelegraphJul 23 12:58
blackrabbithttp://technology.newscientis...Jul 23 12:59
blackrabbitbut first and foremost, the mind is targeted, to drive you insane or think you're going insaneJul 23 13:03
schestowitzSlipping of pills into people's drinks, eh? I think the US government tried to quiet down war protesters that way.Jul 23 13:04
blackrabbitwar protesters are uselessJul 23 13:05
blackrabbiteven the high profile woman gave it upJul 23 13:05
blackrabbitit's futileJul 23 13:05
schestowitzWell, the claims say that you just need to have an embarrassing display (cue Ballmer's monkey dance) to destory one's credibility.Jul 23 13:05
blackrabbitwell demonstrated:Jul 23 13:05
blackrabbit 23 13:05
schestowitzbrbJul 23 13:06
blackrabbiteccentricity is a common way of slight of handJul 23 13:07
blackrabbitacting stupid or strangeJul 23 13:07
blackrabbitand so people overlook the real agendaJul 23 13:07
schestowitzRMS is smeared in this waty too.Jul 23 13:16
blackrabbitdoes RMS have a cell phone?Jul 23 13:16
schestowitzNo. never.Jul 23 13:17
schestowitzAnyway, they try to draw attention to his appearance to retract the message he bears.Jul 23 13:17
blackrabbitindeedJul 23 13:18
schestowitzBut that's another subject. It remains to be seen how much prodding is involved in eroding his image.Jul 23 13:19
blackrabbithis message remainsJul 23 13:30
schestowitzWhere? He was lucky to get a BBC article (probably watered down)Jul 23 13:32
blackrabbityes I seem to recall one articleJul 23 13:35
blackrabbitit contained two photos, if I recallJul 23 13:35
blackrabbitone of him in a not so presentable poseJul 23 13:35
blackrabbitand a short haired, clean cut opposerJul 23 13:35
blackrabbitif I'm correctJul 23 13:35
blackrabbitthe text about him wasn't too flattering, eitherJul 23 13:35
blackrabbitone could investigate who the article writer was and his backgroundJul 23 13:35
schestowitzThe media makes idols out of athletes and rich people, so people accused him of attacking a 'charity'. They were surely brainwashed by the BillyPress.Jul 23 13:37
blackrabbitof course, the intellect is trashedJul 23 13:37
blackrabbitpraise the low browed ball player!Jul 23 13:37
schestowitzThe BBC has just appointed a Microsoft executive for the technology side of media delivery. What's hard for people to get their heads around is the notion of media mind shapingJul 23 13:37
schestowitzPerfect political nirvana: people are preoccupied with sports and celebrities while robber barons are glorified. Well,  there's no escape.Jul 23 13:39
blackrabbitlolJul 23 13:40
blackrabbitthat's patheticJul 23 13:41
schestowitzJust posted the links for the morning. Some people read the site only for the links. See the last one about breaking the law. Rhetorical Q: does Obama have the power to put these thugs in prison? 23 13:48
schestowitzOh, just got this E-mail: "I have what I believe is good question relevant to the expiration of the mp3 patents under the "Mono Is Too Controversial for Debian" article, but that article is currently closed for comments.  Would it be possible to open it for my question?"Jul 23 13:54
schestowitzJust spotted: Snooping requests go through the roof ( )Jul 23 13:59
kentmaon your political nirvana thing, it really has ever been thus.  We've had religion, then drugs of various kinds, the occasional war, more drugs of various kinds, and now we have the "media" who purvey a stream of soft & hard porn and mindless drivel about "celebrities".   Oh yeah, and interestingly, there's not all that much drive to stamp out the drugs trade, either...Jul 23 14:10
schestowitzOr the wars. :-)Jul 23 14:11
kentmaindeed!Jul 23 14:11
kentmaheheJul 23 14:11
schestowitzThe TV still glorifies gun culture.Jul 23 14:11
schestowitzYou see 4 year olds running around with plastic pistols. it's fashionable.Jul 23 14:11
blackrabbit 23 14:27
blackrabbit 23 14:27
blackrabbitglorification of violence in generalJul 23 14:27
blackrabbitkeeps the populace in check, citizen against citizenJul 23 14:27
blackrabbitit breeds nut casesJul 23 14:27
schestowitzblackrabbit: I lost patience with this, but esp. for you: 23 14:33
blackrabbitheh, thanks I'll check it today!Jul 23 14:34
blackrabbitis it about the previous conversation regarding the corporate planting schema?Jul 23 14:35
schestowitzYes, but where it's not substantiated it says so.Jul 23 14:35
schestowitzI don't believe in planting per se (not most of the time). People find news jobs but Microsoft can bother to influence them... use them as pawns.Jul 23 14:37
schestowitzWeird E-mail I just got a moment ago: "Hey there! Alex Brown is your latest fan. He became your fan because he likes what you are up to on Digg and wants to see what you think is interesting. You can either leave him as a fan or add him to your own list of friends. Check out his profile here: ". I suppose you know another "Alex Brown" and it's no friend.Jul 23 14:39
blackrabbitthen there's this:Jul 23 14:39
blackrabbit 23 14:39
blackrabbitThe body of Thomas, who family members said began recently suffering from bipolar disorder and delusions that he was being tracked by aliens and the government, was discovered near the base of a 985-foot Oahu cliff, according to newspaper reports.Jul 23 14:39
blackrabbitSteven Thomas, considered a security visionary for founding anti-spyware company Webroot, was discovered dead Sunday in Hawaii, some two weeks after he was reported missing.Jul 23 14:39
schestowitzSome might pretend to be nuts for mitigation of punishment.Jul 23 14:39
blackrabbitvoice to skull technology is interestingJul 23 14:39
schestowitzOh THAT!Jul 23 14:40
blackrabbitI believe what Linus said recently about Digg users was spot onJul 23 14:40
schestowitzI heard about it. I think it was a physical/mental illness though.Jul 23 14:40
blackrabbitschestowitz, perhapsJul 23 14:40
blackrabbitschestowitz, or perhaps notJul 23 14:40
schestowitzwell, Linus took the piss.Jul 23 14:40
schestowitzBeing the most prolific comment in that site (I think), I would take that as an insult.Jul 23 14:40
blackrabbitIn April, just prior to the diagnosis, Thomas alarmed family members when he ran naked into a walk/run event near his home and then hugged a police officer.Jul 23 14:44
schestowitzYes, I read that before.Jul 23 14:45
blackrabbitinteresting:Jul 23 14:45
blackrabbitSteven Thomas, considered a security visionary for founding anti-spyware company Webroot, was discovered dead Sunday in Hawaii, some two weeks after he was reported missing.Jul 23 14:45
schestowitzAny other bizarre sighting? Maybe he was drunk or stones or something. Maybe that's related to depression?Jul 23 14:45
blackrabbitoopsJul 23 14:45
blackrabbitgood paste:Jul 23 14:45
blackrabbitThomas won a statewide chess tournament at 10 and toyed with computers before most people owned one. When he was 14, the FBI paid a visit to his Boulder home after he hacked into a supercomputer at the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Moll said.Jul 23 14:45
schestowitzClassic. He's not alone.Jul 23 14:46
blackrabbitI wonder if he refused to whitelist certain "spyware"Jul 23 14:47
schestowitzHeh. Well, I didn't learn much about him. Just read the gist about the death.Jul 23 14:47
schestowitzSpotted just now: ( With DNS Flaw Now Public, Attack Code Imminent )Jul 23 14:48
schestowitzSome sites were down due to DNS issue. I'm on the safe side myself.Jul 23 14:48
blackrabbitHehJul 23 14:49
blackrabbitWasn't this patched recently ?Jul 23 14:49
schestowitzNovell too has some patches to issue.Jul 23 14:49
blackrabbitI read some brief article about some stifling of a dns issue on slashdotJul 23 14:49
schestowitzYes, it leaked.Jul 23 14:49
blackrabbitdon't know if this is relatedJul 23 14:49
schestowitzThey knew about it years ago, but done nothing.Jul 23 14:49
schestowitzSo next time they mock Debian, show 'em this.Jul 23 14:49
blackrabbitwas/Jul 23 14:50
blackrabbitthanks I'll check my feedsJul 23 14:50
schestowitzRabbits read feeds?Jul 23 14:50
blackrabbitthe crypto flaw in debian was interestingJul 23 14:50
blackrabbitsure pissed off a lot of tor hidden server ops running debianJul 23 14:50
blackrabbityes, feeds are essentialJul 23 14:50
blackrabbitin between hay and green grassJul 23 14:51
schestowitzWindows is equally hackable. I posted a response to the day it made the news.Jul 23 14:51
schestowitz 23 14:51
blackrabbitI was amused by a recent Word exploitJul 23 14:51
schestowitzJust needed to Google 'back door novell suse". It was the first result. ;-) ;-)Jul 23 14:51
blackrabbitit's amazing how many exploits continue to come to lightJul 23 14:51
blackrabbitthanksJul 23 14:51
blackrabbitmaybe the suse logo should have a little mailbox slot beneath the tailJul 23 14:52
blackrabbitwith a ms flag on topJul 23 14:52
schestowitzWell, well...Jul 23 14:52
blackrabbitand a big smile on the lizard's faceJul 23 14:52
schestowitzSUSE is one of the few that got NSA 'treatment'Jul 23 14:52
schestowitzSmile? Nah, it's already there by default.Jul 23 14:53
schestowitzI wonder if "have a lot of fun" is echoed for the user to read... or the NSA.Jul 23 14:53
blackrabbithehJul 23 14:53
schestowitzWow!!Jul 23 14:55
schestowitz 23 14:55
schestowitzBig surprise 'cause of the Microsoft ads in Digg.Jul 23 14:55
blackrabbityes I read a rumor about that the other dayJul 23 14:55
blackrabbitI hope Google gets itJul 23 14:55
blackrabbitshould be amusing to see what happens to the Microsoft section were they to acquire itJul 23 14:56
blackrabbittoo bad flickr isn't google run tooJul 23 14:56
schestowitzMicrosoft might just grab Y! market share for search and break apart the Big Y.Jul 23 14:56
schestowitzZimbra too might be safe now.Jul 23 14:57
blackrabbit ?Jul 23 14:57
blackrabbityes, I was concerned about zimbraJul 23 14:58
blackrabbit 23 14:58
schestowitzThis one is interesting also: ( SF mayor gets codes to hijacked city network ). have they found a scapegoat yet? People shoot and knife other people, but here they jail a man for changing passwords.Jul 23 14:59
blackrabbitlolJul 23 14:59
*Tallken has quit ("gotta go")Jul 23 15:00
blackrabbit ????Jul 23 15:01
schestowitzThat DNS solver page is spywareJul 23 15:01
schestowitzHad to enable JS to use and it has Google hawking.Jul 23 15:01
blackrabbit?Jul 23 15:01
blackrabbitoddJul 23 15:01
blackrabbitit was linked to from a crypto listJul 23 15:02
blackrabbitapologies if it's bad, I didn't check itJul 23 15:02
blackrabbitjust google link back?Jul 23 15:02
blackrabbitreferral spam?Jul 23 15:02
schestowitzYes, Intel made some good news here, but it's a vile and disgusting company. If only more people knew...Jul 23 15:02
schestowitzMy brother in law works for Intel. :-(Jul 23 15:02
blackrabbitindeedJul 23 15:02
blackrabbit:(Jul 23 15:03
schestowitzThat's from 'security' sites.Jul 23 15:03
blackrabbitSadly, I know people working for MSJul 23 15:03
schestowitz"Your DNS Resolver needs to be updated."Jul 23 15:03
blackrabbitor who have worked in good positionsJul 23 15:03
blackrabbitif good and MS can be used in the same sentenceJul 23 15:03
schestowitzStupid MCC. Don't they care?Jul 23 15:03
blackrabbithehJul 23 15:04
schestowitzThe peons in Intel and Microsoft can be naive or innocent, but they just 'Follow Orders'^TMJul 23 15:04
blackrabbitof those I know, every one of them has a strange aversion to LinuxJul 23 15:05
schestowitzYesterday MCC was scan-porting me.Jul 23 15:05
schestowitzI blacklisted them, but I still don't know why they probed... unless it was a zombie.Jul 23 15:05
schestowitz8port-scanningJul 23 15:05
blackrabbitI wonder if this Intel Linux issue is just for appearancesJul 23 15:05
schestowitzYes.Jul 23 15:05
schestowitzThey always do the Linus hug thingie, esp. after they killed OLPC (yes, they did).Jul 23 15:06
blackrabbityupJul 23 15:06
schestowitzBBC did this too. Ashley and Erik Huggers did the Linux-hugging thing on camera.Jul 23 15:06
blackrabbitI was surprised to see OLPC go MS friendly so quicklyJul 23 15:06
blackrabbitdeep pockets deeeeepJul 23 15:07
blackrabbitbut we've discussed this beforeJul 23 15:07
schestowitzNick knew Gates before, but they took advantage of his weakness.Jul 23 15:07
blackrabbitwith lxer articlesJul 23 15:07
blackrabbitit's an impossible uphill battleJul 23 15:07
blackrabbitunless more citizens are informedJul 23 15:07
schestowitzThe education, you mean?Jul 23 15:07
schestowitzI am still trying to tell people the true story,.Jul 23 15:07
schestowitzmeanwehile they rewrite history in the press. Intel and Microsoft, chiefly.Jul 23 15:08
blackrabbitmost people are too busy consuming and contributing to the policies of the government they can't stand, and in their free time, rather than learning more about the issues and where their TAX MONEY goes, they start up a blog and complain, then go back to work and feed the systemJul 23 15:08
schestowitz 23 15:09
blackrabbitbut unlike you and groklaw, they only continue the chain of misinformation from their local mediaJul 23 15:09
schestowitzProbably my last summary before I decided to turn a blind eye to and ignore the project.Jul 23 15:09
blackrabbitat least you triedJul 23 15:09
schestowitzIt drove PJ mad... well, not mad... just sad, I think.Jul 23 15:10
schestowitzThe whole gates crusade against Linux adoption in education was all too obvious.Jul 23 15:10
schestowitzBut the press? "Oh!! Lookie. The philantropist is donating to schools [*cough* which were just about to embrace Linux]"Jul 23 15:11
blackrabbitis it just me or has the slashdot reader base declined?Jul 23 15:11
schestowitzOh yeah!Jul 23 15:11
schestowitzSlashdot effect is bad.Jul 23 15:11
blackrabbityes, I was thrilled about olpc, I thought finally.. finally linux would inch inJul 23 15:11
blackrabbitI notice a dramatic decline in user participationJul 23 15:11
schestowitzI started my campaign against them a while ago.. They sold  out IMHO.Jul 23 15:12
schestowitzPJ thinks so too.Jul 23 15:12
schestowitzThe last time I made /. FP there was not much traffic.Jul 23 15:12
blackrabbiti've seen a lot of linux troll articlesJul 23 15:12
schestowitzDigg is still the Big Monster.Jul 23 15:12
blackrabbityes but digg has too much non tech news for meJul 23 15:12
schestowitzNo, that's not DiggJul 23 15:12
blackrabbitI don't like tech news mixed with a flickr photo or stupid college video postJul 23 15:12
schestowitzThat's the DEAD Digg. :-)Jul 23 15:12
schestowitzDigg uses to be a tech site.Jul 23 15:13
schestowitzIt stopped, so I almost left.Jul 23 15:13
schestowitzSee...Jul 23 15:13
blackrabbityesJul 23 15:13
blackrabbitin its conception and infancy digg was qualityJul 23 15:13
blackrabbitthere's an ubuntu digg like spin off but its pathetic imoJul 23 15:13
blackrabbitthen there's :PJul 23 15:13
blackrabbitbut that's political and few and far between in articlesJul 23 15:14 went down the shitter a long time agoJul 23 15:14
schestowitz 23 15:14
schestowitz 23 15:15
schestowitz 23 15:15
blackrabbit 23 15:15
blackrabbitthanks for links, I'll check them laterJul 23 15:15
schestowitzI'm still on Digg.Jul 23 15:16
schestowitzI comment and vote a little, but mainly contribute pro-FOSS stories. It's for the good cause, not corposJul 23 15:16
schestowitz*corpsJul 23 15:16
blackrabbitdon't you get like 20+ auto digg downs even if you just say hello?Jul 23 15:17
schestowitzI'm not afraid of Google yet. As a professor said a week ago (quoted in GL), "being a monopoly is not the same as being an evil monopoly"... or something about being big is not being evil.Jul 23 15:18
schestowitzNo, -4.Jul 23 15:18
schestowitzThose 4 that mod me down have been slow to bury me recently. Maybe on vacation...Jul 23 15:18
schestowitzBut they are heavily active in COLA. 3 of them...Jul 23 15:18
blackrabbitI don't see how google is a monopoly, yetJul 23 15:18
blackrabbitthere's no one and only lock in like with proprietary microsoft file formats and OSJul 23 15:19
blackrabbitthere's always alternatives to googleJul 23 15:19
schestowitzThere are exceptions.Jul 23 15:19
schestowitzSome products have their base dependent on Google hooks and APIs.Jul 23 15:19
blackrabbitalways a pleasure schestowitz, duty calls!Jul 23 15:20
schestowitzNo problem. See you later.Jul 23 15:20
*blackrabbit has quit ("Leaving")Jul 23 15:20
schestowitzNanny nation.. (  'Spying' requests exceed 500,000 )Jul 23 15:24
kentmaI saw the inquirer article on thisJul 23 16:24
schestowitzBTW, Linux Today has just made your comment visible. Ta for that.Jul 23 16:24
schestowitzGlyn keeps attacking your favourite paper...http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.c...Jul 23 16:25
kentmaI agree with him on that, it's a stupid statement to make, and they really should know better.Jul 23 16:27
kentmaJust looked at my LT talkback.  I was obviously feeling somewhat vitriolic...Jul 23 16:27
schestowitzIt's part of a series of such complaints. That's why I raised this.Jul 23 16:27
schestowitzThe talkback was good. I don't usually get attacked like this when they pick my posts.Jul 23 16:28
kentmaI used to be a regular comentator at Linux Today, but left around the time of the George Tirebiter incident.Jul 23 16:30
schestowitzBrian stepped down 2 weeks ago. After 6 years, I think...Jul 23 16:31
kentmaThe problem was, afairc, Kevin Reichard and his aliases.  He used to troll his own postings.  I was consulted by a journalist about this myself at the time, but could only add that I was sure that Tirebiter was trolling, beyond that, no evidence...Jul 23 16:35
kentmaBrian Proffitt stepped up to do the job instead, and I tried to be positive about it, but it had just soured my views too much, and walked away from LT at about that time.Jul 23 16:36
kentmaSlashdot was too much like Usenet but with all the disadvantages of the web and usenet combined - I still loath the way the talkbacks work, although some articles are quite good.  It always seemed like an attempt to moderate usenet to me.Jul 23 16:36
schestowitzBrian hated the MS ads.Jul 23 16:37
schestowitzHe told me after he had left.Jul 23 16:37
kentmaA lot of  us did, but I guess the money needs to come from somewhere...Jul 23 16:37
kentma 23 16:37
kentmathat's it.Jul 23 16:37
schestowitzI'd rather be deprived then sell out.Jul 23 16:37
schestowitzAs for USENET, it's the UI (native) that makes it good.Jul 23 16:38
kentma - Doc Searl's interview with me is online there!Jul 23 16:39
schestowitzPaul Ferris contributes to LXer now, I think But only rarely...Jul 23 16:40
schestowitzDoc was in the hospital recently.Jul 23 16:41
kentmalook down for "What are they using" and you'll see Doc's interview.Jul 23 16:41
kentmaWas he - oh dear, what's wrong with him?Jul 23 16:41
schestowitzNothing serious. Lemmie find it...Jul 23 16:42
schestowitz (with video)Jul 23 16:42
kentmaah, poor chap.Jul 23 16:43
schestowitzHe's writing frequently now, so the doc probably sez Doc is OK.Jul 23 16:44
kentmaWell, I've invited him for another beer on his talkbacks!Jul 23 16:45
schestowitzHeh. Where's he based anyway?Jul 23 16:48
kentmaDoc?  Over in the US.  He comes to see us sometimes, though.Jul 23 16:48
schestowitzThat's what I thought.. mid east or west coast I'm guessing.Jul 23 16:50
kentmaI think he's west-coast, but I'm not 100% certain.Jul 23 16:50
kentmaLee Schlesinger is also someone I know, but I'm trying to recall where from.  Maybe he was an OSDL guy?Jul 23 16:54
schestowitzCSI is almost unheard of now. Did you attend LF Summits (invite-only)?Jul 23 16:56
schestowitzWow. "Microsoft, the biggest software maker, has lost about $90 billion in market value this year.." 23 18:24
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Recent Techrights' Posts

[Video] Online Brigade Demands That the Person Who Started GNU/Linux is Denied Public Speaking (and Why FSF Cannot Mention His Speeches)
So basically the attack on RMS did not stop; even when he's ill with cancer the cancel culture will try to cancel him, preventing him from talking (or be heard) about what he started in 1983
On Wednesday IBM Announces 'Results' (Partial; Bad Parts Offloaded Later) and Red Hat Has Layoffs Anniversary
There's still expectation that Red Hat will make more staff cuts
What Fake News or Botspew From Microsoft Looks Like... (Also: Techrights to Invest 500 Billion in Datacentres by 2050!)
Sededin Dedovic (if that's a real name) does Microsoft stenography
Stefano Maffulli's (and Microsoft's) Openwashing Slant Initiative (OSI) Report Was Finalised a Few Months Ago, Revealing Only 3% of the Money Comes From Members/People
Microsoft's role remains prominent (for OSI to help the attack on the GPL and constantly engage in promotion of proprietary GitHub)
[Meme] Master Engineer, But Only They Can Say It
One can conclude that "inclusive language" is a community-hostile trolling campaign
[Meme] It Takes Three to Grant a Monopoly, Or... Injunction Against Staff Representatives
Quality control
[Video] EPO's "Heart of Staff Rep" Has a Heartless New Rant
The wordplay is just for fun
An Unfortunate Miscalculation Of Capital
Reprinted with permission from Andy Farnell
Online Brigade Demands That the Person Who Made Nix Leaves Nix for Not Censoring People 'Enough'
Trying to 'nix' the founder over alleged "safety" of so-called 'minorities'
[Video] Inauthentic Sites and Our Upcoming Publications
In the future, at least in the short term, we'll continue to highlight Debian issues
List of Debian Suicides & Accidents
Reprinted with permission from
Jens Schmalzing & Debian: rooftop fall, inaccurately described as accident
Reprinted with permission from
[Teaser] EPO Leaks About EPO Leaks
Yo dawg!
IBM: We Are No Longer Pro-Nazi (Not Anymore)
Historically, IBM has had a nazi problem
Bad faith: attacking a volunteer at a time of grief, disrespect for the sanctity of human life
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Bad faith: how many Debian Developers really committed suicide?
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Sunday, April 21, 2024
IRC logs for Sunday, April 21, 2024
A History of Frivolous Filings and Heavy Drug Use
So the militant was psychotic due to copious amounts of marijuana
Bad faith: suicide, stigma and tarnishing
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
UDRP Legitimate interests: EU whistleblower directive, workplace health & safety concerns
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Links 21/04/2024: Earth Day Coming, Day of Rest, Excess Deaths Hidden by Manipulation
Links for the day
Bad faith: no communication before opening WIPO UDRP case
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Bad faith: real origins of harassment and evidence
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Links 21/04/2024: Censorship Abundant, More Decisions to Quit Social Control Media
Links for the day
Bad faith: Debian Community domain used for harassment after WIPO seizure
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
If Red Hat/IBM Was a Restaurant...
Two hours ago in
Why We Republish Articles From Debian Disguised.Work (Formerly Debian.Community)
articles at aren't easy to find
Google: We Run and Fund Diversity Programs, Please Ignore How Our Own Staff Behaves
censorship is done by the recipients of the grants
Paul Tagliamonte & Debian Outreachy OPW dating
Reprinted with permission from
Disguised.Work unmasked, Debian-private fresh leaks
Reprinted with permission from
[Meme] Fake European Patents Helped Fund the War on Ukraine
The European Patent Office (EPO) does not serve the interests of Europe
European Patent Office (EPO) Has Serious Safety Issues, This New Report Highlights Some of Them
9-page document that was released to staff a couple of days ago
IRC Proceedings: Saturday, April 20, 2024
IRC logs for Saturday, April 20, 2024
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
Microsoft-Run FUD Machine Wants Nobody to Pay Attention to Microsoft Getting Cracked All the Time
Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt (FUD) is the business model of "modern" media
Torvalds Fed Up With "AI" Passing Fad, Calls It "Autocorrect on Steroids."
and Microsoft pretends that it is speaking for Linux
Gemini Links 21/04/2024: Minecraft Ruined
Links for the day
Links 20/04/2024: Apple is Censoring China’s App Store for the Communist Party of China
Links for the day
Links 20/04/2024: Accessibility in Gemini and Focus Time
Links for the day
Congratulations to Debian Project Leader (DPL) Andreas Tille
It would not be insincere to say that Debian has issues and those issues need to be tackled, eventually
20 April: Hitler's Birthday, Debian Project Leader Election Results
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
September 11: Axel Beckert (ETH Zurich) attacks American freedoms
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
20,000 victims of unauthorized Swiss legal insurance scheme
Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock
Matthew Garrett, Cambridge & Debian: female colleague was afraid
Reprinted with permission from
David Graeber, village wives & Debian Outreachy internships
Reprinted with permission from
Neil McGovern & Ruby Central part ways
Reprinted with permission from
Links 20/04/2024: Chinese Diplomacy and 'Dangerous New Course on BGP Security'
Links for the day
Over at Tux Machines...
GNU/Linux news for the past day
IRC Proceedings: Friday, April 19, 2024
IRC logs for Friday, April 19, 2024
The Latest Wave of Microsoft Crime, Bribes, and Fraud
Microsoft is still an evil, highly corrupt company