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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: July 24th, 2008



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schestowitzJust woke up. Best way to start a day: http://boycottnovell.com/20...Jul 24 05:16
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schestowitzSeparation of the units ( http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir... ): it seems likely that Microsoft only merged them to give the illusion that all divisions are profitable. It did this with the Mobile Unit, too.Jul 24 13:10
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kentma1wow, they're losing some really key people here...Jul 24 15:13
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kentmalevel 3 making a loss in the US:  http://level3.mediaroom.com/ind...Jul 24 16:31
kentmaschestowitz: the p/e ratio of MS is only 12 compared with avg of 20 for software sector in the reuters article you highlight - this is worthy of bringing out, I think?Jul 24 16:49
kentmahttp://www.reuters.com/article/m...Jul 24 16:49
schestowitz[back noiw]Jul 24 17:09
schestowitzThe man they have just lost is arguably their #2 man (after Ballmer).Jul 24 17:09
schestowitzkentma: did you see what I wrote about that Reuters article earlier?Jul 24 17:10
kentmaschestowitz: yes!Jul 24 17:11
schestowitzAlso, just got this mail from a friend:'Well, the Economist used to have online an article called "Share and Share Unalike" from 1999 which points out that if you used regular accounting (where you tally the expenses and income, as opposed to Enron -style accounting with loops and magic numbers) MS was already running a loss in 1998.'Jul 24 17:11
schestowitzI could use your helpJul 24 17:11
schestowitzI haven't read the above yet, but what is your suspicion there abpit p/eJul 24 17:11
schestowitz*aboutJul 24 17:11
schestowitzWith the fraud that has just been confirmed not just by imprisonment but also admission (tjay ;ady from accounting) it's worth digging into.Jul 24 17:12
kentmahi - the numbers are actually in the reuters article, just page through and the p/es are shown.Jul 24 17:13
schestowitzAnother important find (potentially): http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/brie...Jul 24 17:13
schestowitzOlder: http://www.billparish.com/msftfr... http://reactor-core.org/micr...  I was in touch with Bill Parish some  months ago, but very briefly. Will he get many apologies one day? Who knows...Jul 24 17:13
kentmahehe - who knows?Jul 24 17:14
schestowitzAnother important gem: MS' CFO is a new guy from the paper industry. Weird appointment. The previous guy ran away. Sort of.Jul 24 17:14
schestowitzThe Enron thing is an exaggeration, so I don't make that analogy, but something smells funny given the fact that Microsoft's margins eroded, sales fell, and they could still merge divisions to show positive numbers. They are probably profitable, but to what extent? Despite the SEC's supervision, lying is the norm now. Execs say it out loud.Jul 24 17:16
kentmadishonesty is the norm, I agree.  MS surely suffer from this!Jul 24 17:18
schestowitzCan't say much without proof though.Jul 24 17:19
schestowitzNovell was caught admitting this.Jul 24 17:19
schestowitzhttp://reactor-core.org/microso...Jul 24 17:20
schestowitzCompare to: http://boycottnovell.com/200...Jul 24 17:20
kentmathe parish paper is good - I've seen it before, but it's still good!Jul 24 17:56
schestowitzI didn't read it entirely, but I just posted a recommendation in COLA. The economy is being ruined by such schemes (those that are confirmed). It's endemic everywhere though, not just the US.Jul 24 17:59
kentmaUnfortunately, as Mr Parish observes, these companies *are* the economy, which is why corruption is entirely inherent in this system.Jul 24 18:11
kentmathe Adam Smith viewpoint that if you just let capitalists get on with things, the world will improve, is quite good, but does appear to have some basic flaws.  Adam Smith hails from a Scots Presbyt. background, which a strong moral ethos, and his thinking was heavily influenced by that.Jul 24 18:12
kentma*hailed.Jul 24 18:12
schestowitzYes, I agree. Corporations still have more power than the government. Heaps more. Even ISO is to Microsoft what a mouse is to an elephant. Seen the Novell post yet?Jul 24 18:13
schestowitzThis comment was posted minutes ago: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0... . As he points out, Intel needs to be taken to the back for some EU whooping as well.Jul 24 18:14
kentmaumm, interesting remarks frmo Mr Asay :-)Jul 24 18:15
schestowitzIf the whooping ain't good, then whipping and weeping would do. They have a heap of allegations against Intel at the moment. Intel bribes.Jul 24 18:15
kentmaI suspect that there's at least as much here as there was at Siemens.  Did you include any pieces on Siemens, on your site, btw?Jul 24 18:16
schestowitzOnly in COLA I think.Jul 24 18:16
schestowitzSimens and MSBBC are a perfect couple, and yes, they collaborate.Jul 24 18:17
kentmathey do have a strong interest in linux.  they're in the Linux Foundation, I think.Jul 24 18:17
schestowitzSiemens stained by multimillion bribery scandal http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inqui...Jul 24 18:18
schestowitzBribery scandal: Siemens fined 201 million euros http://www.heise.de/english/newst...Jul 24 18:18
schestowitzMSBBC as a possible partner in crime (accomplice): "MPs rap BBC over Siemens deal" http://www.channelregister.co.uk/200...Jul 24 18:19
kentmathose're the ones, yes.Jul 24 18:19
schestowitzJust like Apple though, no matter the amount of crime, there's no embargo, so the crime pays. It pays off.Jul 24 18:19
schestowitzYes, Intel do some stuff for Linus _AS LONG AS ALL PCS RUNNING LINUS USE INTEL HARDWARE_Jul 24 18:20
kentmaWell, they were fined, and the senior guys had to leave Siemens, afairc.Jul 24 18:20
schestowitzOLPC used AMD. Remember that they just need to sell their wares. Linux is only a 'risk' because of the upgrade cycle thingie.Jul 24 18:20
kentmaare OLPC still messing around with Microsoft?Jul 24 18:20
schestowitz"Leave Simens"? They should be in prison,  no?Jul 24 18:21
schestowitzOLPC I choose not to watch anymore, but for Microsoft, a dead OLPC is a good OLPC.Jul 24 18:21
kentmafor fraud?  Perhaps.  One cannot be sure how much government influence was involved in these things.Jul 24 18:22
schestowitzGerman government?Jul 24 18:22
kentmaperhaps, or eu, or even eu/us.  Much of this was occuring in the middle-east, I think, so there's a lot of national strategic interest.Jul 24 18:23
schestowitzI've seen governments granting monopolies to friendsJul 24 18:25
schestowitzIt's partly responsible for shutting down my grandad's business.Jul 24 18:25
kentmathe problem with all of this, as I observed many years ago in Cola, is that governments, like businesses, are populated by people, and people are corruptible.Jul 24 18:25
schestowitzSome worked in industry.Jul 24 18:26
schestowitzTake Majoras for example.Jul 24 18:27
schestowitzShe worked in the FTC (chaired it) before leaving to join Proctor and Gamble quite recently.Jul 24 18:27
kentmaIt's a tight a close-knit group.Jul 24 18:27
schestowitzThere was a huge mess over Intel and Google, IIRC. Microsoft is another. Herhusband was connected to some orgs and, in general, it's all just a corrupt watchdog that goes by money and gut feeling.... oh, and lobbyists... 64 of them (full time) per congressman in WA, DC..Jul 24 18:28
schestowitzIntel got away many times because of her. She gave no reason..Jul 24 18:29
kentmaread this:  http://politicalhumor.about.com/od...Jul 24 18:29
schestowitzNow that she left /EVEN/ the US (home country of Intel) is issuing antitrust.Jul 24 18:29
*schestowitz readsJul 24 18:29
schestowitzWell, no system can work well, but that's just chaos.Jul 24 18:31
kentmaI stand by this man. I stand by this man, because he stands for things. Not only for things, he stands on things, things like aircraft carriers and rubble and recently flooded city squares. And that sends a strong message, that no matter what happens to America, she will always rebound with the most powerfully staged photo-ops in the world.Jul 24 18:34
schestowitzFunny new video: http://www.marcelgagne.com/node/581Jul 24 18:43
*kentma grabs urlJul 24 18:44
schestowitzkentma: http://news.zdnet.co.uk/commun... ( BT joins enterprise open-source community )Jul 24 19:05
kentmathey didn't quite get my Linux Foundation quote right, but it's close enough... we're making progress at last!Jul 24 19:07
kentmaAndrew Back has been driving the fossbazaar membership, I think it's a good idea.Jul 24 19:08
kentmaWe're also members of LiMo, but that's not mentioned there.Jul 24 19:08
schestowitzThe author is a SUSE user. :-(Jul 24 19:09
kentmaSuSE is pretty big...Jul 24 19:09
schestowitzYes, like a bad tumour.. SLED/S anyway... it's a form of Microsoft Linux. At least David uses OpenSUSE.Jul 24 19:11
kentmaI wonder how long microsoft will exist for.Jul 24 19:13
schestowitzThat's the wrong question to ask, I think.Jul 24 19:14
schestowitz"How long will it be dominant for?"Jul 24 19:15
kentmaPersonally, I suspect that Microsoft will sort of implode, but maybe not.  time will tell.Jul 24 19:15
schestowitz suppose you've seen my post about their value sinking $90 billion this year? And that's before Johnson left...Jul 24 19:16
schestowitzWhoa! Microsoft down sharly today, as I expected: http://news.zdnet.co.uk/commu...Jul 24 19:17
schestowitzOops. Right URL: http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=MSFTJul 24 19:17
schestowitzSee end of: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0... (Microsoft as SCO 2)Jul 24 19:18
kentmaI did, yes.  I'm not surprised!  Do you remember the balance sheet analysis I did in cola some time ago?  There's loads of asset gone, lost.Jul 24 19:18
kentmaanyway, gotta go - see ya!Jul 24 19:18
schestowitz What anslysis?Jul 24 19:18
schestowitzI spoke to my dad about this on the phone earlier this afternoon.Jul 24 19:19
kentmaa couple of months ago I did a balance sheet analysis and put it in cola.Jul 24 19:19
schestowitzHe didn't know Microsoft has just $26 billion left in the bank (debt possibility due to Yahoo/buybaqcks)Jul 24 19:19
kentmaTHere was a substantlial loss of asset, with no explanation, but it was disguised reasonably well.Jul 24 19:19
schestowitzThey also buy assets (companiesJul 24 19:20
schestowitzBut they bet on patents, too.Jul 24 19:20
kentmabuying corps only works if you do the diligence properly, and know /why/ you want them.  Microsoft is in a panic and has no idea.  It's money down the drain.Jul 24 19:21
kentmaanyway - off - see you.Jul 24 19:21
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PetoKrausi am wondering, how do you know, that binary distribution of linux really delivers only compiled source code with applied patches and nothing more? that the binaries doesn't differ from the sources provided?Jul 24 19:56
PetoKrausjust a matter of paranoia.Jul 24 19:56
schestowitzGood point.Jul 24 19:57
schestowitzWell, you need to check the compiler too, not just the source. Then, the chips used to compile the source code.Jul 24 19:58
PetoKrausassuming you compile your compiler you are pretty safeJul 24 19:58
schestowitzAmong other things. There's a lot of trust involved, which is why I don't trust SELiNSAux. It has assemble code patches.Jul 24 19:58
PetoKrausthough, to some extentJul 24 19:58
schestowitz*assemblyJul 24 19:58
schestowitzThere's reliance on people's reluctance to start from source though. People just want to 'dress up' their HDD.Jul 24 19:59
PetoKrausyou can have code-replicating compiler. Actually, who knows what the compiler you get with the gentoo stage3 tarball does to your compiler you compile yourself.Jul 24 19:59
PetoKraustheoretically, the perfect code safety is, when you bootstrap the compiler itself by handJul 24 20:00
schestowitzGood point. Or you can do a binary diff on what you have, or have inspections done that are independent from distro makers.Jul 24 20:00
PetoKrausso now. is there authority which supervises "openness"?Jul 24 20:00
schestowitzShould be.Jul 24 20:00
schestowitzWell, OSI is a toothless tiger.Jul 24 20:00
PetoKraussomething like CACERT for certificatesJul 24 20:01
schestowitzDana Blankenhorn took a stand 1.5 years ago and this MilkingTheGNU guy wanted to become FOSS chief.Jul 24 20:01
schestowitzTrust/security are code work for control.Jul 24 20:01
schestowitz*coide wordJul 24 20:01
PetoKrausyes, the point is you have to start somewhereJul 24 20:02
schestowitzWould you do it?Jul 24 20:02
schestowitzCould be like Welte and gpl-violations.orgJul 24 20:02
schestowitzHe won an ORLY prize yesterday.Jul 24 20:03
PetoKrausin trust? yes. I trust gentoo devs that they provide me with honest stage3 tarballJul 24 20:03
schestowitzBut diff is not enough. Full and deep code inspection too. How many lines are in Gentoo's base? Like 10 million?Jul 24 20:03
PetoKraussure. it's precompiled toolchain... it's enough to "infect"Jul 24 20:04
schestowitz*LOL* Well, punch cards are needed maybe?? Like the failure of eVoting?Jul 24 20:05
PetoKrausnah, i've got just my paranoia moodJul 24 20:06
schestowitzHave you seen that link from this morning about SELinux in Fedora by default (or something along these lines)?Jul 24 20:07
PetoKrausnopeJul 24 20:07
schestowitzhttp://groups.google.com/group/c... See Homer's comment, too.Jul 24 20:09

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