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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 30th, 2008

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*jose (n=jose@adsl-233-171-198.mia.bellsouth.net) has joined #boycottnovellAug 30 00:19
josehello....Aug 30 00:20
joseIs this a joke? http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/29/mono...Aug 30 00:20
joseschestowitz, is the blog post about tomboy a joke?Aug 30 00:22
MinceRwhile it reads like a joke, i suspect it has a base in realityAug 30 00:23
schestowitzIt's sarcastic in nature, but it's based on true fcts.Aug 30 00:27
joseI won't go into details, but I feel asleep for a few hours and it appears I awoke in the twilight zone.. btw, novell was up today 7%. The stock market is funny that way, but I do worry about ms supporting novl at redhat's expense for some time to come. the stock might be reflecting this or not at all since the rise might draw in buyers so that those holding dump some more sharesAug 30 00:33
josetypo: feel -> fellAug 30 00:33
schestowitzjose: Novell is buying its own stock.Aug 30 00:37
josehmmAug 30 00:37
schestowitzThe same goes for Microsoft. Their share value says too little.Aug 30 00:37
josefor those that have never read this nugget called microsoft financial pyramid summary (first link on page) http://billparish.wordpress.com/2...Aug 30 00:45
schestowitzSee this one also: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0...Aug 30 00:46
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josei think it was today's newspapers that had a story about some stock brokerage firm (merryllinch?) that had lost in one quarter 1/4 of the profits they had made to date since the company was founded (let me verify this)...Aug 30 00:56
jose.. it reminds me of how microsoft and others go back and adjust past figures over time.Aug 30 00:57
josewhat a scamAug 30 00:57
jose.. when the result is so large as it has been at times.Aug 30 00:57
josewatch financial reporting and "analysts", eg, use the excuse of the company beating estimates by a single penny as an excuse for the stock to rise.Aug 30 00:58
jose.. even when the company is reporting perhaps huge losses..Aug 30 00:59
jose.."oh, the market was already expecting huge losses.. so this is a positive surprise"Aug 30 00:59
josemy arseAug 30 00:59
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joselook at this chartAug 30 01:00
josehttp://finance.yahoo.com/...Aug 30 01:00
josesee how as the stock was dropping below $6 at the beginning of this month the volume was higher than normal, in particular, the days before and during the rise showed high volumeAug 30 01:02
schestowitzjose: the market is a mess. Lying is the 'standard' and companies are judged by /how much/ they lie to investorsAug 30 01:03
schestowitzThe SEC isn't doing its job properly. It failed to see what was happening to SCO almost 2 years ago and it let Microsoft be despite allegations of fraud. Novell admits cooking the books, yet the SEC let it be a year ago.Aug 30 01:03
joseit may not appear like much but the big money buying this stock doesn't like to choke on this garbage.. of course, i worry that novl might actually be on the up since msft is much larger and can fund this garbageAug 30 01:04
josemsft can fuel huge earnings growth for scox and a bunch more companies if they had something to gain..Aug 30 01:04
schestowitzjose, Novell started buybacks about 2 months ago.Aug 30 01:04
josethe price was at lowAug 30 01:04
schestowitzWhen looking at the stock, bear in mind that Novell plays a sort of pump-n-dump with NOVL.Aug 30 01:05
schestowitzMicrosoft was caught inside-trading, but the SEC didn't investigate, despite reports.Aug 30 01:05
josei think microsoft books money that is due them (legit) but if enough time passes and they don't get paid (eg, if recession leads many account receivables to spoil), then msft has to write down all the losesAug 30 01:07
joseloses -> lossesAug 30 01:07
josethis may already be happening to a large extentAug 30 01:07
joseohAug 30 01:07
josethe us is thinking of changin away from GAP reporting to the more lenient one used worldwideAug 30 01:08
josei think this too was in today's papersAug 30 01:08
josebill parish says gap is weak as isAug 30 01:08
joseand prefers the stronger one.. whose name doesn't come to mind right nowAug 30 01:09
josefor those that don't know, you can count as legitimate revenues today money that is owed to you today even if you don't get paid until much later (eg, your customer buys from you on credit from you)Aug 30 01:10
joseit's easy to fabricate money.. eg, dell can just buy a bunch of air ("licenses") from Microsoft and ms can book the earnings immediately.. later on dell has to get the money from you and me to pay back msAug 30 01:12
joseit's an open ended cycle though because people can all just keep buying on creditAug 30 01:13
josethis is tied in to how credit is regulated by the us govAug 30 01:13
josethis is why it appears that every so many years there is some type of bank fraud explosion that is bailed out by tax payers..Aug 30 01:14
josei am approximating this a good dealAug 30 01:14
josethe point is that over time, paper money is used to make the rich richer.. even when we all make more, inflation makes most of us poorerAug 30 01:15
joseonce the most wealthy (who have the inside track and get favorable treatment from each other)...Aug 30 01:15
joseare superwealthy ..in paper moneyAug 30 01:16
josethen it's up to them to convert that into tangiblesAug 30 01:16
joselike real estate, minerals, etcAug 30 01:16
josereal estate, gold, ... and even us treasuries while the gov remains strong..Aug 30 01:17
josemaintain their relative value no matter what inflation is likeAug 30 01:17
josegold works everywhere.. so gates wants to convert his paper billions into real assets or else they will go poof at some point in time.Aug 30 01:17
josehousingAug 30 01:18
joseprices will drop to force or trick people into selling .. and the dollar will also weaken .. until those who move large volumes of money are satisfied that they have bought back their landAug 30 01:19
schestowitzI have some analysis of MSFT tricks.Aug 30 01:19
joseok, i'll stopAug 30 01:19
josebill parish has lots of stuff, tooAug 30 01:19
schestowitzOne thing they do is move the money between buckets.Aug 30 01:19
schestowitzThere are also loans.Aug 30 01:20
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schestowitzIt's interesting (it's' catching up now). Remember that Microsoft makes a lot of money in the west, but in most of the world it gets nothing.Aug 30 01:21
schestowitzThe vast majority of the world is using illegal copies, which Microsoft is actually happy about (better to 'steal' MS software than to use something else).Aug 30 01:22
jose"Shortly thereafter, Microsoft and Pancerzewski settled out of court. Terms of the agreement were sealed, but one source who claims familiarity with the case says that Microsoft paid Pancerzewski $4 million." $4 million seems like so littleAug 30 01:24
josesorry, here is the link for the quote http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/...Aug 30 01:27
schestowitzFor someone who could expose billions inn corruption -- yes.Aug 30 01:27
josethe bill parish piece mentioned earlier explains some more the details of the stock options problem.Aug 30 01:32
joselike the credit thing just mentioned, you pay your bills today on money that may or may not be there tomorrowAug 30 01:32
josethe trick is to get out and not be left holding the hot potato..Aug 30 01:32
schestowitzEnron is small potatoes, eh?Aug 30 01:32
joseby giving away stock options instead of stock to employees...Aug 30 01:32
joselol..Aug 30 01:32
jose..the employees can't sell ahead of gates and friends.Aug 30 01:33
schestowitzGates sold off MSFT over time.Aug 30 01:33
josethat's the only wayAug 30 01:33
schestowitzBillions of it. I can find a post about it.Aug 30 01:33
josei'll get you a link to something interesting on the gates foundationAug 30 01:33
schestowitzhttp://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.l...   : SCROLL DOWN a bit.Aug 30 01:34
josehttp://www.billparish.com/2004022...Aug 30 01:35
schestowitzI wrote about the use of the Gates Fundation [sic] as well.Aug 30 01:35
josewrt the link i just posted: "Microsoft Foundation Liquidates all Shares of Microsoft"Aug 30 01:35
schestowitzIt's very interesting how much of a bank account or 'pet charity' it hs become.Aug 30 01:35
schestowitzExempt from tax too, so Warren joined it.Aug 30 01:35
josewith all that money they can have small companies look super impressive and then go public while they unload stock at many times earnings multipleAug 30 01:36
joseso msft gives 100 million over a few years.. this money was gradually increased, eg, 1 million year 1 2 milllion year 2 4 million year 3 etcAug 30 01:37
josethis company's fast earnings growth might lead to a p/e of 100Aug 30 01:38
josethus in it's final year, the company takes in say 30 million but it's stock would be valued at 30*100 = 3billionAug 30 01:38
josemeanwhile gates unloads on say 1.5 of those billions (if owns 50%) while msft invested just 100 to 200 millionAug 30 01:39
joseof course, wall street is not stupid.. sometimes after ipo's stock drop for a reason for a while before rebounding.. if the company is a legitimate oneAug 30 01:39
josebut the point is that through enough deception, derivatives, twisted nda agreements, etc.. you can convert modest cash into much larger paper money..Aug 30 01:40
joseit won't work always, but in real life companies make products so msft won't be funding everything but will simply help tip the scalesAug 30 01:40
schestowitzInteresting. I wonder why Paul Allen left.Aug 30 01:41
joseyupAug 30 01:41
schestowitzOther than Ballmer and Gates talking behind his back about who gets his money if/when he dies (he had an illness)Aug 30 01:42
josebillparish talks at times of how paul has used outside companies to help msft..Aug 30 01:42
josei don't track billparish, but have read various of his papers in the pastAug 30 01:42
schestowitzI can imagine.Aug 30 01:42
schestowitzDo you know how many companies Allen is involved in?Aug 30 01:42
josei think you mentioned a big one recently.. there is also ticketmasterAug 30 01:43
josewhich is a monopolyAug 30 01:43
joseor so i heardAug 30 01:43
schestowitzAll around the board: Wi-Fi, CNET (media), Microsoft... I can't  recall.... Gates too has investments in oil companies,  media companies, Corbis.Aug 30 01:43
josethey deserve jailAug 30 01:43
schestowitzWell, duh.Aug 30 01:44
schestowitzBut if you say this in Slashdot, you'll get attacked by a mob of shills.Aug 30 01:44
schestowitzThat aside, dare to question the gates Foundation and see what you get.Aug 30 01:44
schestowitzOver the past 3 years I have criticised it in about 100 posts.Aug 30 01:44
MinceRwhat if you do it on digg?Aug 30 01:45
schestowitzNothing else that I write about begs for as many angry attacks from trolls.Aug 30 01:45
MinceRdoes the counter overflow from negative to positive? :>Aug 30 01:45
schestowitzDigg too.Aug 30 01:45
schestowitzDigg has shills.Aug 30 01:45
schestowitzFor a fact.Aug 30 01:45
schestowitzThe same people who have shilled in USENET since the 90s are already there (for a fact).Aug 30 01:45
joseconsider quoting from billparish after you look things over.. see link aboveAug 30 01:45
josederivativesAug 30 01:46
schestowitzMinceR: they link to each other and gang up for peer validation (among trolls)Aug 30 01:46
schestowitzI sent him an E-mail some months ago and he wrote back.Aug 30 01:47
josewhom?Aug 30 01:47
schestowitzIf people haven't the patience to read his posts, then all I can do is quote snippets.Aug 30 01:47
josebp?Aug 30 01:47
schestowitzSee for example:  http://boycottnovell.com/2008/07... (QUOTES at the bottom)Aug 30 01:47
schestowitzYes.Aug 30 01:48
josekAug 30 01:48
josethe b&M gates foundation was created out of msft stock (gates own donation) and they unloaded all of this behinds the scenes tax free.. gates could not have pulled that off, but the foundation could/didAug 30 01:51
josethat money then can be used to prop up other businesses, including ms through donations that are ..Aug 30 01:51
joseearmarked or at least very likely to get returned as sales for companies gates and friends own.. including biomed and msftAug 30 01:52
joseit's sickening and should lead to jail time if justice was ever servedAug 30 01:52
jose"If foundations like the Gates foundations receive tax-exempt treatment for security sales, they should be required to be fully disclosed.  Only then will the free market system work.  Linux users in particular should be pressing for such disclosures because only then will the playing field be level.  Thinking that a more superior product will prevail in such an environment is simply naive."Aug 30 01:53
josehttp://www.billparish.com/20040223pers...Aug 30 01:53
schestowitzWell, it's a bribery fund too.Aug 30 01:54
josebribery rightAug 30 01:54
schestowitzWhen I say bribery I don't mean under-the-table dealsAug 30 01:54
schestowitzLike Lessig said...Aug 30 01:54
schestowitzIt's done in sophtsicated waysAug 30 01:54
josethe prob is that the market finds out about this (many have known forever likley)..Aug 30 01:55
schestowitzGates gives fonations of s/w and h/w to nations that ponder moving to GNU/Linux.Aug 30 01:55
joseand they love it... milk ma and pa... why would we snitch..Aug 30 01:55
schestowitz(donationsAug 30 01:55
schestowitzIt's already happening.Aug 30 01:55
joseso everyone participates and they all won't go to jail naturallyAug 30 01:55
joseyes, it's done in sophisticated ways .. as lessig saidAug 30 01:55
schestowitzit's harder to accuse people in suits and flashy logos.Aug 30 01:56
schestowitzThat said, not account here is Microsoft political manipulation which I last posted about this morning (I don't know if you follow the Web site)Aug 30 01:56
joserecently i have looked at it much more, but not every day, noAug 30 01:57
schestowitzAdded to that are AstroTurfing activities that come through very many agencies that Microsoft hires. That's a fact. It also has fake 'journalists' planting stories (proven).Aug 30 01:57
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josepeople might pay attention if the economy takes a dump.. then they will want heads to roll so they might pay attention even if they don't understand or truly believe.. but then, if you don't understand, you can be unconvinced and led to feel you are responsible wholly for your job loss and state of affairsAug 30 01:58
josethe prob is that if "everyone" in power participates or if deals are done and deleted then not much will happenAug 30 01:59
schestowitzThis isn't just Microsoft.Aug 30 02:00
joseand if americans don't do it, others in other countries will...illusion or rather the faith and trust in money..Aug 30 02:00
josewill cause the "mislead" nations to pull ahead.Aug 30 02:00
schestowitzI am not an expert in many other areas, but a friend of mine from the gym studies such things too and he reckons that the real estate and loans industry plays a similar gameAug 30 02:00
joseso you sort of have to let things be.. well, i don't know but maybeAug 30 02:00
schestowitzThey pass the burden and debt downstream. They have the power to do so.Aug 30 02:01
joseit's about creating financial instruments that others will be willing to get behind...Aug 30 02:02
joseover time laws are passed to prevent those tactics that inevitably result in disaster and little actual gains (eg, pyramid schemes)Aug 30 02:03
josebut people keep devising these things.. and with sophisticated computer programs, they can make them very complicated to analyzeAug 30 02:03
joseif I pay you a hocko will you do X for me.. this will work if people trust hocko'sAug 30 02:04
josethe system works when we all gain from each others's contributionsAug 30 02:04
schestowitzYes, that's how things are run and all we have is therefore circumstantial evidence.Aug 30 02:04
joseno matter hocko or msft stockAug 30 02:05
schestowitzThe lobbying industry is measured in $billions, so it's a shadowy thing with lots of impact.Aug 30 02:05
joselobby money, uhAug 30 02:05
schestowitzCIO.com: “Did you know that there are more than 34,750 registered lobbyists in Washington, D.C., for just 435 representatives and 100 senators? That's 64 lobbyists for each congressperson.”Aug 30 02:05
joseif you aren't reasonable, senator, then we'll just have to support someoen taht will beAug 30 02:06
schestowitzIt's down to regulation. With Gates, there are mandatory disclosures, but they are incomplete.Aug 30 02:06
schestowitzYou can also see insider-trading very frequently.Aug 30 02:06
joseso everyone in power gets their hands dirty.. at least many doAug 30 02:06
schestowitzYes.Aug 30 02:06
schestowitzRecommended: http://lessig.org/blog/2008/...Aug 30 02:07
josethere truly is competition, but monopolies and mergers are evil for this reason.. that wealthiest bunch should never have too much control or it's overAug 30 02:07
josebecause they can't be caught and can manipulate things so that they win every game.. the playing field is never fair when one group is too strongAug 30 02:08
josemost of this can be done legallyAug 30 02:08
josewell after lobbyists help pass the proper loopholesAug 30 02:09
joseagain, you can't regulate alll of this short of something like central control ..communismAug 30 02:09
jose.. so to keep things distributed and fair..Aug 30 02:09
joseyou need to ensure fair-ish competitionAug 30 02:09
schestowitzTransparency is goof.Aug 30 02:09
joseEND to MONOPOLIESAug 30 02:09
schestowitzI love Wikileaks.Aug 30 02:09
schestowitz*good, not "goof"Aug 30 02:09
josewell, the compeitition should keep all of this in check,, but if those with access and control ever end up as a small enough group, they will milk the rest of usAug 30 02:10
josewe will play the games and appear to always lose legallyAug 30 02:11
schestowitzLike at present?Aug 30 02:12
joseto be clear, communism is horrible because of the extreme centralization of power..Aug 30 02:12
schestowitzWatch what's happening with swpatents at the moment.  Classic case study.Aug 30 02:13
MinceRisn't that socialism?Aug 30 02:18
MinceRor did they intend to retain the state forever?Aug 30 02:18
MinceR(in what they claimed should be done)Aug 30 02:19
MinceRlooking into the WP article only made me more confused :>Aug 30 02:20
schestowitzWhich one?Aug 30 02:20
MinceRhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co...Aug 30 02:21
schestowitzIf I click on it, Gordon will harvest my packets. :-) j/kAug 30 02:23
joselol, yeah, i had to think twice before going there myselfAug 30 02:24
MinceRwhich Gordon?Aug 30 02:24
schestowitzClown, to use RMS' joke.Aug 30 02:24
MinceRi don't think i know that jokeAug 30 02:25
schestowitzPaul Erdos was denied access to the US as an academic after being asked a question about Marx. It's funny how paranoid they were at the timeAug 30 02:25
schestowitzTo this date, it's part of his obituary --- a single incident like this.Aug 30 02:26
schestowitzMinceR: when RMS came here to Manchester, he called Brown "Gordon Clown".Aug 30 02:26
MinceRlolAug 30 02:26
schestowitzHe also says Bliar.Aug 30 02:27
jose:)Aug 30 02:27
*schestowitz is pro-Labour mostly.Aug 30 02:27
*MinceR knows little about UK politics.Aug 30 02:27
josethe party system: you scratch my back I scratch yours.. appears to win easily over independentsAug 30 02:28
schestowitzThere's no real electionAug 30 02:28
josethere's no real solutionAug 30 02:29
MinceRah, so the same two groups of bastards taking turns fucking the country over setup as in the USA and here in hungaryAug 30 02:29
schestowitzThe government always stays the same. It just has a different puppet (or set thereof) at the tip of the strings.Aug 30 02:29
schestowitzYou have Blair, Brown and other UK commerce giants meeting up with Melinda Gates et al in Bilderberg annual meetings. That's where the elites decide on a lot of stuff.Aug 30 02:30
MinceRfunny how this scum has the audacity to call themselves "elite"Aug 30 02:31
schestowitzNot in the athletic sense...Aug 30 02:32
joseso numbers can be manipulated legally (much is left to discretion) or at least in a way few are likely to realize..Aug 30 02:34
josestocks rise and ma and pa *willingly* buy the hyped stocks. then world crashes.. or another round is started after strong pullbacks. buy high sell low for us.Aug 30 02:35
josethe sickness, like much in the media is that it's all a sell/con job that is mostly legal. we lose and feel we rightfully played the game and lost.Aug 30 02:35
joseit's too easy for "them" to cheatAug 30 02:35
schestowitzThe Wall Street press is glorfying itself to entice poor 'idiots' to toss their money in.Aug 30 02:36
josewhat does buffet think?Aug 30 02:36
jose:)Aug 30 02:36
jose.. great, I'm in.Aug 30 02:36
schestowitzThen, when they lose it (like in a casino where adds are against you... never mind commission), the insider-traders win. They play the stock up and down with words of friend analysts.Aug 30 02:36
josethe business cycle is when they come clean as they allow the stocks to fall..Aug 30 02:37
jose..i say "allow" because a large was of money is controlled by few.. eg, 50% is more than enough even if these compete somewhatAug 30 02:38
schestowitzI've seen Las Vegas wannabes burning their money trying to be Big Shots in 'the market'. It's like gambling, which is illegal in places.Aug 30 02:38
josewas of money -> wad of moneyAug 30 02:38
josetoo much is out of our controlled and the news outlets are carefully controlled so that we are most confident prior to the moment of doomAug 30 02:38
joseyou can't win when the opponent has insider access or at least a good guess and further has the ability to affect "independent" newsAug 30 02:39
schestowitzYes, Robert Bach for example.Aug 30 02:40
josethis is how I view microsoft's control over their source code and so-called open documentation of themAug 30 02:40
schestowitzHe's a VP at Microsoft, but he should be in prison./Aug 30 02:40
schestowitzI wrote about this many times, but no-one that can do something about it would listen (of course not)Aug 30 02:40
joseone thing to keep in mind and it's why i mentioned communism..Aug 30 02:41
schestowitzWell, it's not the regime structure, IMHO.Aug 30 02:41
joseany rules that are established can seem fair (at least until ms gets their hands on them :/ )Aug 30 02:41
schestowitzIt's just a case of living in a culture where criminals are glorified.Aug 30 02:41
josebut if you deal with business day in and out, it becomes much easier for you to be able to slaughter those with less experienceAug 30 02:42
schestowitzAnd winning athletes are probably on steroids: http://www.aqmd.gov/ej/images/Asthma...Aug 30 02:42
josethings are such that the victor can make too much..Aug 30 02:42
joseit's difficult to regulate to stop abuseAug 30 02:42
joseso much boils down to a sell job and the free decisions by those being ..connedAug 30 02:43
schestowitzThat's when it's time for a reform, jose.Aug 30 02:43
josewe are left with horrible communism or accept that there will be problems in any free system where legal things will not be fairAug 30 02:43
joseyes, you have to keep trying to improve it.Aug 30 02:43
joselook at marriagesAug 30 02:44
schestowitzChange Congress for instance: http://lessig.org/blog/2008/0...Aug 30 02:44
josehow many are "duped" into a relationship and situation that is not in their best interest? so do you make marriages illegalAug 30 02:44
josewe haven't solved these basic problemsAug 30 02:44
josethe financial titans will continue to have their fun.. and that is ok as long as the side-effect/by-product damages aren't too painful to too manyAug 30 02:45
schestowitzRules are very arbitrary, but those who bbenefit from the rules of a current game fight to maintain them.Aug 30 02:45
schestowitzIn this case this involves monopolysoft.Aug 30 02:46
joseso what I am saying is that perfect rules are impossible.. much will be left to discretion (eg, "of professionals"). money has a way of twisting the professional opinions of professional and independent XAug 30 02:46
joseit's interesting and sadAug 30 02:47
schestowitzIt's human's nature.Aug 30 02:47
schestowitzWhatever system allows someone to increase power (e.g. Hitler, Stalin) will be abused somehow. If it's not self-balancing, it's doomed to fail.Aug 30 02:48
josethose that labor and keep their level of education down are almost doomed to their lifestyle and bad draw.. again, communism ("their salvation") won't do because it will simply be one group of elite taking over anotherAug 30 02:48
joseeducation is so important.. I love linux for this reason...Aug 30 02:49
joseamong many other reasons, of courseAug 30 02:49
josevariety is valuable for the same reason.. to motivate people to create, learn, control, and grow..Aug 30 02:49
jose..and so that everyone can be king/queen of the hill in some areaAug 30 02:50
josei am all for 1zillion distros (custom jobs, several per person) and completely against few distros to rule them all.Aug 30 02:50
josewithout educated voters/workers, we are doomed to the current situationAug 30 02:51
schestowitzYuck. One distro? Now, *that* would be communism.Aug 30 02:51
schestowitzYou know, like Windows.Aug 30 02:51
jose..again, unless we want to entrust one particular elite to rule with an iron hand.. that won't doAug 30 02:51
joselemmings are horrible.. if you want any free system to workAug 30 02:51
schestowitzThey are made that way.Aug 30 02:52
schestowitzIndutry-imposed televised information.Aug 30 02:52
josewe can fight ms tactics with similar ones.. but the prob is we must do it as hobbies to a large degreeAug 30 02:52
schestowitzIt's 3 AM here now. I really need to go to bed, but I'll catch you tomorrow. Thanks for the good chat.Aug 30 02:52
joseok,Aug 30 02:52
joseyup, it was fun.Aug 30 02:53
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joseschestowitz, i'll talk a bit since you might read it later (and for anyone else interested)Aug 30 03:13
josems makes lots of deals .. some of this might never go through, perhaps there is a bail out clause to motivate the dealAug 30 03:14
josenda's of courseAug 30 03:15
josethis starts to bring into ms "accounts receivables" that is debt they are owed but which may not be paid in cash at that point in time (buying on credit)Aug 30 03:16
josethis counts as revenue, but they still want/need cash.Aug 30 03:16
josecash might be coming in from those paying off prior debts...Aug 30 03:17
josehowever, is it so crazy to imagine that with gates connections and "motivations" he might not get some high ranking professional at bank X or some other group...Aug 30 03:17
joseto sign off as legit on buying this debt (the paper based account receivable contracts) in exchange for case or something just as liquidAug 30 03:18
josethis means the bank takes the risk, but we know that "banks" in some case are being abused to take a fall for bad investments.Aug 30 03:18
joseso microsoft converts these promises to pay them from customers that might not pay or may not have to (at least in some cases) and get these promises converted to moneyAug 30 03:19
josewhich is then used to buy stock..whose stock.. well, gates' of course, as well as everyone else's, but this helps keep the price from plummeting while gates cashes outAug 30 03:20
josethis almost certainly goes on to some degree. the idea is that only very little, but ms is full of creative methods.Aug 30 03:21
josein the end, lot's of promises from companies that will eventually take a write-off.Aug 30 03:21
josethis isn't so crazy.. consider a public company that is a customer of microsoftAug 30 03:22
josethey too hype up their earnings and add tricks like what was just mentioned.. to some degree.Aug 30 03:22
joseeventually, when the fun comes to an end or winds down, the stockprices will drop (eg, after the 2000 tech bubble where many were left holding worthless paper like stock options that had not matured/vested that was used to pay bills)Aug 30 03:23
joseduring the hype time, ma and pa buy the stock from these companiesAug 30 03:23
josethen when the bad news comes out, industry wide,..Aug 30 03:24
josethe stocks plummet. but it wasn't gates that lost money..ok, he did but now before getting a bunch out at the high pricesAug 30 03:24
joseit was ma and pa'sAug 30 03:24
josethe cycle repeast. up and down up and downAug 30 03:25
joseor just up and upAug 30 03:25
josepoint is that the market determines this. there is no secret formula, but the effect is for the big boys to bail ultimately before the stocks come way downAug 30 03:26
josethe b&g gates foundation was able to dump their msft shares (which belonged to bill) without making noiseAug 30 03:27
josegates could not have done this without leading to serious problems for msft.. but the nonprofit was able to dump it without quietly without ripples..Aug 30 03:28
joseand they likely sold it to groups like the teachers union pension fund and other such "well-managed" buyersAug 30 03:28
josethrough deception and tricks, gates cashes out at the tax payer expense or the expense of those that trust others to manage their money because supposedly these others know what they are doingAug 30 03:30
josegates has made billions and should have the rest of his wealth crumble if the company has problems.. it's called captain going down with the ship.. and it's not as if he wouldn't keep billions already...Aug 30 03:31
josebut no, he's willing to have ordinary working people take many more lumps so he can get many more billions out safely.Aug 30 03:31
joseand it's legal (well, some of it anyway) because after all, "these are all free people making free financial decisions that just didn't work out for them"Aug 30 03:33
joseinteresting: http://billparish.wordpress.com/20...Aug 30 03:37
joseand this: http://billparish.wordpress.com/200...Aug 30 03:44
joseand this which is also about google: http://billparish.wordpress.com/2007...Aug 30 03:46
josethis interesting one shows that google is now doing what Microsoft was able to do in the past: http://billparish.wordpress.com/2007/...Aug 30 03:49
josehere is the quicky on stock options as (ab)used hereAug 30 03:50
josecompany grants employees stock options, these can be converted into stock in the future.Aug 30 03:50
josein the past, these were put in the financial reports but did not factor into revenues or any other "bottom line"Aug 30 03:51
josetoday, these options are marked off but only very little (at least little if by the time they are exercised the company stock has gone up a lot)Aug 30 03:52
joseoptions don't cost the company today..Aug 30 03:52
josebut they cost the company when they are exercised relative to the stock prices then.Aug 30 03:52
joseso the effect is that microsoft appears to have paid it's employees very little years ago, but once those options got exercisedAug 30 03:53
josethe stock was worth huge amounts of moneyAug 30 03:53
joseso who loses?Aug 30 03:53
josewell, the investors today find that a bunch of people all of a sudden are competing with your for the same paper moneyAug 30 03:54
joseor rather, a chunk of the value of microsoft that used to belong to you based on your ownership just got handed over to others too so you own less of itAug 30 03:55
joseon the one hand, your stock value should only drop a bit.. but the point is that microsoft pulled off their purchases and deals years ago through this heavy cost that was not reflected.Aug 30 03:56
joseso if earnings then were 1 buck per share, the hidden costs based on compensation payed out turned out to have been say $4 bucks meaning the company lost moneyAug 30 03:56
josebut no one appears to lose..Aug 30 03:57
joseuntil the stock implodesAug 30 03:57
josethis is why it is allowed by the gov.. because the effects are delayed way off into the futureAug 30 03:57
joseit's a pyramid scheme but it can last for many years so many will point to the positive stimulation effects during the interim periodAug 30 03:57
joseyet ma and pa ultimately pay and..Aug 30 03:58
josein the case of microsoft, the reason it lasted so long was because of their powerful position at the center of many monopoliesAug 30 03:58
josenovell execs and others probably have a deal with ms so that they might rake in lots of cash.Aug 30 03:58
josefor that they'd lie and deceive (well those that get it, hope to get $$)Aug 30 03:59
joseand this brings me back to where i started: shocked that novell employee would be so forthright with his feelings in the blog.. if it was meant seriously which it probably was but .,m??Aug 30 04:00
josehttp://automorphic.blogspot.com/2008...Aug 30 04:00
josei think i should go to bed.Aug 30 04:01
josethe explanation i gave above for stock options was written badly.. bill parish writes some good pieces but anyone wanting to know will have to read in other places too.. check out the msfraudfacts article by bpAug 30 04:06
josebtw, gap -> gaap and there is also the stricter rules of sas Statement of Auditing Standards .. here is the link to the popular ms pyramid paper for anyone that hasn't read it http://www.billparish.com/msftfraudfacts.htmlAug 30 04:17
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joseone more thing i didn't mention, when stock options are exercised, all that money is amazingly given as tax breaks to the company. so not only do they not write off the costs, they get a tax break. makes no sense.Aug 30 05:29
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twittergreat conversation.  I like the Bill Parish update.Aug 30 05:56
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ZiggyFishheyAug 30 09:02
schestowitzHey there.Aug 30 09:03
ZiggyFishjust catching up on the weeks events on the Linux front. Has there been any news on SilverLight?Aug 30 09:04
schestowitzIt knocked people out of the Democrats' convention.Aug 30 09:05
schestowitzLinks here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/...Aug 30 09:05
ZiggyFishyeah, I heard.Aug 30 09:06
ZiggyFish(keeping an eye out for SilverLight, it's the next big battle we will faceAug 30 09:06
schestowitzRight now I'm also interested in way of presenting Microsoft financial practices.Aug 30 09:07
ZiggyFishare you going to do an article on it (I can do some research for you)Aug 30 09:08
schestowitzYes.Aug 30 09:10
schestowitzThere was a long discussion about this last night.Aug 30 09:10
schestowitzI suggest we wait until tomorrow. See the IRC logs of the 30th.Aug 30 09:10
ZiggyFishsureAug 30 09:10
ZiggyFishwell the forth quarter ends on the 30th of septemberAug 30 09:15
schestowitzHere's the thing, in a nutshell...Aug 30 09:16
ZiggyFishsuppose we will find out thenAug 30 09:16
schestowitzJose and I explored some old dirty laucndry.Aug 30 09:16
ZiggyFishniceAug 30 09:16
schestowitzSome of it is documented and involves admission even by Microsoft insider.Aug 30 09:16
schestowitz*insidersAug 30 09:16
schestowitzThis was already 'filed', so to speak, in BN for future use.Aug 30 09:17
schestowitzJose brought out some more article from Bill Parish -- ones that I haven't seen before. He has been explaining it too.Aug 30 09:17
ZiggyFishlol, if only the US gov wasn't corrupted by big corporationsAug 30 09:18
schestowitzThe way it may or may not relate to Novell is relevant to us, but if along the way we also exposed the Enronisation of Microsoft, that might be helpful to others.Aug 30 09:18
schestowitzGroklaw too seems to be aware of the issue, suggestion that bankruptcy is not so far fetched (I'd have to look at my reference). Microsoft plays a dangerous gamble.Aug 30 09:19
schestowitzTo give you just an idea, read this (before the bubble): http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/13/sm...Aug 30 09:19
ZiggyFishmm, interestingAug 30 09:23
schestowitzMy hypothesis is that Novell has debt, but the value of its assets exceed the 'cost' of  this debt. What enforces this believe is The Register mentioning that after Novell's latest losses, there was a deby-writeoff.Aug 30 09:23
schestowitzAlso see the following, which came before Novell totally sold out to Microsoft: http://boycottnovell.com/2007/11/22/nov... (BTW, it's possible that a lot of companies are like this, but it doesn't make it OK).Aug 30 09:24
ZiggyFishyeah, trueAug 30 09:27
schestowitzWhat specifically are you referring to? Either way, I'm prepared to write more about Novell's latest.Aug 30 09:27
ZiggyFishthe article and the comment in bracketsAug 30 09:28
schestowitzWhoa:http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0198-22534...Aug 30 09:29
ZiggyFishwowAug 30 09:29
ZiggyFishAfter more than seven years in the courts, Novell will spend $13.9 million to make a securities fraud class-action lawsuit go away.Aug 30 09:30
schestowitzYes.Aug 30 09:31
schestowitzI will write about this later.Aug 30 09:31
schestowitzMicrosoft too paid for people to take their fraud claims elsewhere.Aug 30 09:31
schestowitzWelcome to American justice, where you can commit a crime and get away with it if you are rich.Aug 30 09:32
ZiggyFishyeah, they would of also paid more then novel didAug 30 09:32
schestowitzApple too is like this... backdating scandal and other such thing. They escaped it somehow.Aug 30 09:32
ZiggyFishyeahAug 30 09:33
schestowitzI'll do a post about this later. Novell won't be happy, but I only present documented facts.Aug 30 09:35
ZiggyFishniceAug 30 09:35
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schestowitzKettle. Black. http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-100...Aug 30 10:42
schestowitzMicrosoft is 10 times worse than GoogleAug 30 10:42
schestowitzSpeaking of book-cooking, I'm pretty sure Alfresco does this too. It reported astounding figures, but deep inside lies a different reality and the marketing guy complains about the open source biz model. Latest: http://asay.blogspot.com/2008/...Aug 30 10:46
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schestowitzHi, trmanco. Any news about Portugal?Aug 30 11:13
schestowitzRui replied yesterday.Aug 30 11:13
trmancohaven't seen any news todayAug 30 11:14
schestowitzHold on...Aug 30 11:14
schestowitzSee comment at the bottom of http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/...Aug 30 11:15
trmancookAug 30 11:16
trmancoIreally don't know what he is talking aboutAug 30 11:18
trmancooh waitAug 30 11:19
schestowitzThe articles are in Portuguese.Aug 30 11:22
trmancomaybe he is referring to the e-escolas program, if you are in schools you can get a cheap laptop provided by the government that comes preloaded with windows or linuxAug 30 11:23
ZiggyFishniceAug 30 11:25
ZiggyFish(I wish australia did that)Aug 30 11:25
trmancoRui is more into the Portuguese stuff I like more international news, but I don't know of any open standards law project or anything with that nameAug 30 11:25
trmancoZiggyFish, what?Aug 30 11:25
trmancolinux laptops at schools?Aug 30 11:26
ZiggyFishyeahAug 30 11:26
trmancopeople will likly go for the windows versionsAug 30 11:26
trmancolikely*Aug 30 11:26
ZiggyFishaustralia is big on microsoftAug 30 11:26
trmancoso is portugalAug 30 11:26
trmancohttp://www.caixamagica.pt/CM12/ -> here is the linux distruibuition that comes with those laptopsAug 30 11:27
schestowitztrmanco: because they provided a dumbed-down version of Linux. It's an illusion of choice.Aug 30 11:27
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schestowitzWhat they should have done is given equal treatment.Aug 30 11:27
schestowitzschestowitz: I thought it was XO/Sugar.Aug 30 11:28
trmancoschestowitz, yes you are rightAug 30 11:28
ZiggyFishtrmanco: 4Gb de software = in englishAug 30 11:28
schestowitzcaixa magica moved away from SUSE, IIRC.Aug 30 11:28
schestowitzLet me checkAug 30 11:28
trmancoschestowitz, this is what Rui is talking about -> http://blog.softwarelivre.sapo.pt/20...Aug 30 11:28
trmancoI thinkAug 30 11:28
schestowitzYup! http://boycottnovell.com/2007/12/03/...Aug 30 11:28
trmancohttp://translate.google.com/translate?...Aug 30 11:29
schestowitzYou know what I think?Aug 30 11:29
schestowitzI think we should refer to Novell differently, just like "M$"Aug 30 11:29
schestowitzMicrofraud was one example.Aug 30 11:29
trmancoyes its based on mandriva nowAug 30 11:29
schestowitzI left a comment about this here: http://www.thevarguy.com/2008/0...Aug 30 11:30
schestowitzFraudvell sounds good?Aug 30 11:30
schestowitzI think there's sufficient proof to justify the allegation, even if it's a past story.Aug 30 11:31
ZiggyFishschestowitz: M$ is good because Microsoft is often referred to as MSAug 30 11:31
schestowitzIt wrongly suggests that Microsoft is wealthy. It's more like flattery.Aug 30 11:31
ZiggyFishit seguests that Microsoft cares only about moneyAug 30 11:32
schestowitzYes, that too. Tissue paper money...Aug 30 11:33
trmancoRui may be right saying that Ballmer will come to Portugal to destroy the Open Standards project lawAug 30 11:35
schestowitzI have little doubt about it if he meets minister. How well can we show it? Any stories?Aug 30 11:38
ZiggyFishI'm looking at words that look simular to Novell, ones I've come up with NoVeil (which could be interpreted as they hide the true).Aug 30 11:39
schestowitztrmanco: I try to raise awareness. See this: http://www.google.com/search?num=...Aug 30 11:39
trmancoalready on the 3rd resultAug 30 11:39
schestowitzWe need to just document more evidence for other people to pick up and take action.Aug 30 11:40
trmancohttp://www.programaslivres.net/2008/08/...Aug 30 11:41
trmancohere is another oneAug 30 11:41
trmancoschestowitz, this is the official announcement -> http://www.pcp.pt/index.php?o...Aug 30 11:42
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trmancohttp://www.google.pt/searc...Aug 30 11:42
trmancolots of info on google, but everything is in PortugueseAug 30 11:42
schestowitzhttp://translate.google.com/trans... http://translate.google.com/translate?...Aug 30 11:43
schestowitzThanks, you beat me to it.Aug 30 11:43
trmanco:PAug 30 11:43
ZiggyFishthis is so true, This means that if the information concerned is stored in a format that the supplier of software owns and controls, then it may be that the State has the ability to have the information, but does not have any way to recover, except using software that company in question. If the holder of that information can not recover without the consent of the manufacturer of software, then this is a situation of control Aug 30 11:45
schestowitzI'll blog it later.Aug 30 11:46
trmancowe have a better Portuguese distro in Portugal, its called Alinex and its debian basedAug 30 11:51
trmancohttp://www.alinex.org/Aug 30 11:52
ZiggyFishnice, trmanco does ubuntu have a portugal lang supportAug 30 11:52
schestowitzI think I saw it listed in DistroWatch.Aug 30 11:52
trmancoZiggyFish, yesAug 30 11:53
trmancobut its not fullAug 30 11:53
schestowitzhttp://schestowitz.com/UseNet/200... http://linux.hostweb.com/TopicMessages/...Aug 30 11:53
trmancohttps://translations.launchpad.net/...Aug 30 11:54
schestowitzWhen I wrote the latter, it was only added to DW.Aug 30 11:54
ZiggyFishI went back to ubuntu (was using fedora for about a week)Aug 30 11:55
trmancoAlinex was adopted in schools but it was version 1.0 and it had to be loaded with the Windows bootloader, not grubAug 30 11:56
trmancothat was 2 years agoAug 30 11:57
trmancoand nobody updates yet to the latest versionAug 30 11:57
trmancoupdated*Aug 30 11:57
trmancohttp://www.alinex.org/download/isosAug 30 11:57
trmancothe one that says TIC was the one installed in schools all over the country leaving caixa mágica  out of the gameAug 30 11:58
schestowitzit's probably diverse and thus obscure enough to be 'safe' (SSL).Aug 30 11:58
schestowitzWhat does caixa mágica mean?Aug 30 11:59
trmancomagic boxAug 30 11:59
trmancoknown by lots of poruguese by tragic boxAug 30 11:59
trmancocaixa trágicaAug 30 11:59
trmancoused once, and 8. something version of it on a P2 with 64 megs of ram :|Aug 30 12:00
trmancoan*Aug 30 12:00
schestowitzMagic box: sounds like Mandrake.Aug 30 12:04
schestowitz*LOL* Just found: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.p...Aug 30 12:07
ZiggyFishlolAug 30 12:10
schestowitzhttp://www.linux-magazine.com/online/b...Aug 30 12:11
schestowitzThis is very, very timely.Aug 30 12:11
trmanco:)Aug 30 12:11
schestowitzCNET is spreading lies about Brazil and the talking points of Microsoft are then citing CNET for disinformation. It's like some kind of propaganda party (CNET). I will write about it soon. IDC does the same thing, with the help of ZDNet and CNET.Aug 30 12:12
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trmancomicrosoftiesAug 30 12:13
trmancothey all work somehow togetherAug 30 12:13
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schestowitzThey panicked because all schools in Brazil move to Debian GNU/Linux with KDE.Aug 30 12:14
schestowitzSo they sent the Ina Friend shill down there to write lies from Microsoft's chief liar.Aug 30 12:14
schestowitz"'Bravo. Good corporate lackey. Ina Fried gets a fluff job from the Microsoft head liar in Brazil and she runs with it THREE times and now you jump on it. Bravo."Aug 30 12:15
schestowitzFrom http://news.cnet.com/8301-13...Aug 30 12:15
schestowitzLeif is moving to GNU/Linux: http://lodahl.blogspot.com/2008/08... http://lodahl.blogspot.com/2008/08/...Aug 30 12:32
trmancolook like that open source law project is going to be aplied soon in portugalAug 30 13:24
trmancolooks*Aug 30 13:24
trmancoEntrada em vigorAug 30 13:25
trmancoA presente lei entra em vigor 90 dias após a sua publicação.Aug 30 13:25
trmancoAssembleia da República, em 30 de Julho de 2008Aug 30 13:25
schestowitzThanks.Aug 30 13:29
schestowitzI was writing about it _JUST NOW_ :-)Aug 30 13:29
trmanco:pAug 30 13:30
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schestowitzseller_liar has just left, but I was going to write about Brazil too.Aug 30 13:31
schestowitzMicrosoft has a propaganda running against Brazil and Linux. It's becoming more clear all the time.Aug 30 13:31
ZiggyFishhas there been any news about Australia latelyAug 30 14:11
schestowitzNo Lenovo sub0-notebooks with GNU/Linux there, IIRC.Aug 30 14:17
trmancohttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/_HNEge4Yf...Aug 30 14:30
ZiggyFishniceAug 30 14:30
schestowitztrmanco: If I forgot some details or you can add some: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/30/b...Aug 30 14:46
trmancolooks alright to me :)Aug 30 14:50
schestowitzI also did Brazil: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/30/g...Aug 30 14:52
trmancocoolAug 30 14:55
trmancoI'm also reading the *official* .DOC file with that law project in portugalAug 30 14:55
trmanco*.doc* :|Aug 30 14:55
trmancoits the same thing thats published on there siteAug 30 14:56
trmancowith some imagesAug 30 15:02
schestowitz*LOL* Dot Doc. A bit like ISO...Aug 30 15:04
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2007/09/1...Aug 30 15:04
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/03/2...Aug 30 15:05
schestowitzHa! Cool: http://polishlinux.org/linux/how-to-ge...Aug 30 15:23
schestowitzI wonder if that's the person was was in IRC the other day asking questions about it. I can't recall if it was from Poland, but I gave the Dave Mitchell article as reference.Aug 30 15:25
mib_g7349cThat was probably my dad or older brother. They had gone out to circuit city, best buy and most of the local comp. shops. They then hit the web sites (del, hp, etc.) and seen they could only get computers with vista on themAug 30 16:55
mib_g7349cHe had to drill down on the dell site to find the ubuntu machinesAug 30 16:56
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benJIman"I think there are some folks that are very active online trying to complain about this particular issue[ms-novell], and they’re welcome to that viewpoint. I would suggest that maybe if you are deeply committed to open source, perhaps your time would be better spent in doing something positive."Aug 30 17:28
twitterPeople do what they can, Benjie.  Anything that advances software freedom or detracts from those who are enemies of freedom helps.Aug 30 18:05
twitterNow that ISO has two "standards" for docs, I wonder which one they will demand for comments.Aug 30 18:53
MinceRneither, they'll demand .doc ;)Aug 30 18:57
MinceRor, even better, .doc renamed to .rtfAug 30 18:57
schestowitzOr snail mail (like Cuba)Aug 30 18:57
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twitterHow about NoValue as a name for Novell?Aug 30 19:28
twitterI can see it in their cute little font.Aug 30 19:29
twitterSo 80s.Aug 30 19:29
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schestowitzHehe. That's a good one.Aug 30 19:37
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schestowitzSomeone just posted me about http://boycottnovell.com/credibility-index/Aug 30 19:44
schestowitz"Also, Ingrid Marson is missing. Of ZDNet http://www.google.com/search?q= "ingrid+marson"   she wrote really good stuff.   Haven't seen her on ZDNet lately, though I read it less than before.   Once the list is filled out, start tracking staffing changes and look for correlations between M$ advertising money or other similar influence and departure of the non-shills."Aug 30 19:44
schestowitzI see http://gcc.gnu.org/ml... . In 3 years of reading *nix news, I never came across the name. ZDNet is MS turf BTW. Is anyone familiar with Ingrid?Aug 30 19:44
schestowitztwitter: http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/...Aug 30 20:06
twitter:)Aug 30 20:11
twitterMine has two Ls, to make fun of the illiterate origin.Aug 30 20:12
twitterI have png and svg.  What's a good email address to send it to you?  Bayimg is not working right now and they don't accept svg anyway.Aug 30 20:14
schestowitzMy bad.Aug 30 20:14
MinceRre the NoValue logo: the 'e' could be taken from the Novell logo tooAug 30 20:46
schestowitzYeah.. I did this very quickly. I won't be used much.Aug 30 20:53
schestowitzI returned to using the royalty-free stock exchange, as I did back in 2004-2006, so there should be more pictures in BN.Aug 30 20:54
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kentmaevenin' allAug 30 22:50
schestowitzHow was vacation?Aug 30 22:51
kentmaexce,,e tAug 30 22:51
schestowitzLost a finger?Aug 30 22:51
kentmahehe - maybe!  I was mostly on a canal boat on the llangollen and then shropshire union canals, via Beeston castle (see Jodrell Bank), and into Chester for a day.  Great fun - and saw a horse-drawn 102 year old boat!Aug 30 22:52
kentmaoh yeah, and the last commercial boat made - they made it without rivets in order to save 2 tons in weight, but they couldn't compete with wagons.Aug 30 22:53
schestowitzWell, the NG server was up consistently. On the other day, my machine at work is down. I had the IT staff check the router... the connection is lost for no reason.Aug 30 22:53
schestowitzThe USENET troll now call me a shill for Microsoft. *LOL*Aug 30 22:54
kentmaAh, great news that the server stayed up!  sorry about your work machine.  MS troll? amazing...Aug 30 22:54
kentmaAny particular reason for that?Aug 30 22:54
schestowitzThe USENET stuff? Go ans watch. It's hilarious. Desparate to discredit.Aug 30 22:54
kentmaI shall take a peak later on... I've a few digests to catch up with, of course.  Perhaps I should find a delegate for whilst I'm away...Aug 30 22:55
kentmaInteresting thing - my no2 son found out what the MS trolls had been saying about me - I had to explain that Microsoft pay people to abuse anyone who promotes alternatives... he was a little shocked.Aug 30 22:57
schestowitzkentma: I think you want to see this < http://goliath.ecnext.com/... > and this < http://web.archive.org/web/20070308... >Aug 30 22:57
*kentma looksAug 30 22:57
kentmaoh...Aug 30 22:58
kentmash1tAug 30 22:58
schestowitzMy grandpa and brother saw things about me. But... :-) ... when they read libel about me chopping off things, they just laugh of course. Hopefully this libel does not affect other people.Aug 30 22:58
kentmaAh, at last, the truth about the finance is beginning to emerge.Aug 30 22:59
kentmaI recall the abuse I got when I pointed out that$19bn had disappeared from MS's books over just a couple of years.Aug 30 22:59
schestowitzI showed this to Moody. Microsoft will possibly be shut down like Enron at the end.Aug 30 22:59
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008...Aug 30 23:01
schestowitz18 billion in losses back in 1998.Aug 30 23:01
kentmathey've been losing money for a very long time.  the situation is not sustainable...Aug 30 23:02
schestowitzFor Microsoft or the US economy that they've been robbing?Aug 30 23:03
kentmaUS$4m is a lot to settle something which you consider to be wrong...Aug 30 23:03
schestowitzThere was a chat about this here (last night)Aug 30 23:03
schestowitzkentma: it wasn't class action, unlike the former (Novell)Aug 30 23:04
kentmaoh, I think that the US Economy argument would be that so much money came into the US from the rest of the world, that failing to pay tax is relatively minor, I'd say.Aug 30 23:04
kentmaIt's a weak argument, but I bet it'd buy a few politicians...Aug 30 23:05
kentmaargghh!  the room is swaying!Aug 30 23:05
schestowitzSpeaking of tax shelter, Gates Foundation. Let me find a URL from last night.Aug 30 23:06
schestowitzhttp://billparish.wordpress.com/2007/09/...Aug 30 23:07
schestowitzAnd this: http://www.billparish.com/20040223...Aug 30 23:07
ZiggyFishjust reading the http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?p... article , nice, some OS devs will be happy about this (just posted it to a OSDev forum I know of ;) )Aug 30 23:07
kentmaum, interesting...Aug 30 23:07
schestowitzhttp://billparish.wordpress.com/2008/03/1...Aug 30 23:08
kentmaZiggyFish: good news :-)Aug 30 23:08
schestowitzhttp://billparish.wordpress.com/200...Aug 30 23:08
schestowitzhttp://billparish.wordpress.com/2007/10/04/micros...Aug 30 23:08
schestowitz\http://billparish.wordpress.com/2007/09/28/inside-st...Aug 30 23:08
schestowitzOops. http://billparish.wordpress.com/2007/09/28/...Aug 30 23:08
kentmaumm - fascinating...Aug 30 23:09
schestowitzJose left this comment: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php...Aug 30 23:09
schestowitzZiggyFish: there's more from VIA and Silicon Motion DriverAug 30 23:10
schestowitzI'll post a link later tonight, but: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&a... http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&a...Aug 30 23:10
kentmafascinating about the stock options problem.Aug 30 23:10
schestowitzThey make lots of mon... errr.. paper tissue.Aug 30 23:10
kentma:-)Aug 30 23:11
schestowitzI reckon they don't make any money (maybe even losses) in developing countries where they give the software away and call it "piracy".Aug 30 23:11
ZiggyFishnice, 2 years ago. we had problems getting 3D acceleration (from the hobbiest OS dev POV),Aug 30 23:11
kentmait's possible that their local units make some kind of profit locally, since they have zero production costs.Aug 30 23:11
kentmaZiggyFish: :-)Aug 30 23:11
schestowitzkentma: localisation is what I had in mind.Aug 30 23:12
ZiggyFish(use to be a OS dev myself)Aug 30 23:12
schestowitzZiggyFish: help the MINIX folks.Aug 30 23:12
kentmaZiggyFish: I recall you've mentioned that before.  An honourable trade, anyway.Aug 30 23:12
schestowitzhttp://www.educ.umu.se/~bjorn/mhon...Aug 30 23:13
ZiggyFishyeahAug 30 23:13
kentmaanyway - c u 2morrow folksAug 30 23:15
schestowitzNew Linux user (Denmark's main man for OOo): http://lodahl.blogspot.com/...Aug 30 23:20
ZiggyFishniceAug 30 23:31
ZiggyFishleft a post about his last statement thoughAug 30 23:35
schestowitzLeif?Aug 30 23:36
schestowitzModeration maybe?Aug 30 23:36
ZiggyFishyeahAug 30 23:37
schestowitzGood man.Aug 30 23:37
schestowitzSome months ago he was ranting about Linux without having used it.Aug 30 23:37
schestowitzHe said it was just for technical people, basing this on his colleagues apparently.Aug 30 23:37
ZiggyFishlol, well with the problems he has had, to an average user these are technical problemsAug 30 23:38
schestowitz*LOL* didn't notice that.Aug 30 23:39
schestowitz/etc/ *LOL*Aug 30 23:39
schestowitzNever mind the typo (firfox). But that's what help is for. He needs to move the profile from the userspace.Aug 30 23:40
*cozub has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Aug 30 23:40
ZiggyFishyeah, but he also may be using outlook, which is another problemAug 30 23:41
schestowitzCarla wrote about it last night: http://www.linuxtoday.com/new...Aug 30 23:41
schestowitzGood news: http://commit-digest.org/issues/2008-08-17/  No Mono or C# patches this week.Aug 30 23:42
ZiggyFishniceAug 30 23:42
schestowitzShould be 'this' week. It was posted moments ago, but it's referring to 2 weeks ago.Aug 30 23:45

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