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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 24th, 2008 - Part 2

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twitterMy work getting done was just a cool dream.Sep 24 02:07
AlbertoPschestowitz, anyway scientific journals (serious) are necessary. They remove a lot of shit from circulating.Sep 24 02:07
pombat42That's great!Sep 24 02:07
twitterScientific journals are moving to be free.Sep 24 02:07
AlbertoPo really?Sep 24 02:07
AlbertoPI don't think so ^^Sep 24 02:07
schestowitzOnce Free software outpaces blobs (think Firefox), you get equal access.Sep 24 02:07
twitterAll the work is done by scientists in their spare time.  They hate the journals.Sep 24 02:07
schestowitzIn this case to information.Sep 24 02:08
AlbertoPLOOOOOLSep 24 02:08
schestowitzIf FOSS isn't good enough in are X, participate and make it so.Sep 24 02:08
schestowitzApache, Firefox, Linux... all leading examples... all FOSS>Sep 24 02:08
pombat42They are the diamonds thoughSep 24 02:08
AlbertoPwhat has this to do with peer review of science?Sep 24 02:08
twitterReally, the submitters are also the reviewers and editors.  All the publisher does is put it on dead trees and charge everyone else lots of money.Sep 24 02:08
AlbertoPtwitter, no really you speak without knowing againSep 24 02:09
twitterThat's what you think.Sep 24 02:09
AlbertoPthat's sure, because it's the case I'm scientist and reviewer ^^Sep 24 02:09
twitterI've seen plenty of it myself.Sep 24 02:10
twitterwhat journal do you review?Sep 24 02:10
schestowitzAlbertoP: you don't keep in touch with OA, do you?Sep 24 02:10
AlbertoPso maybe I can explain how it works: you submit a paper, and I can assure that if the journal is serious (and there are a lot), the selection is hard, no matter who you are, where you work, and what you're working onSep 24 02:10
schestowitzScientists themselves are fed up with how things are arranged.Sep 24 02:10
schestowitzMany of them put their paper in a homepage for Google to just index.Sep 24 02:11
AlbertoPschestowitz, arranged?Sep 24 02:11
schestowitzThat applies to me too.Sep 24 02:11
twitterare you nice enough to prepublish at http://arxiv.org/ ?Sep 24 02:11
schestowitzarranged, deranged, whatever...Sep 24 02:11
AlbertoPschestowitz, no I don't know much about OA actuallySep 24 02:11
schestowitzI give a journal a paper.. what do I get ? Nothing.Sep 24 02:12
twitterAll the selection is done by scientists, it's just another community.Sep 24 02:12
twitterYou get charged when you publish, when you ask for journals and you do all the work.Sep 24 02:12
schestowitzThey get free labours and the closed system ensures that they continue to be funded by instiitutes that also review the same papers.Sep 24 02:12
AlbertoPwell, I don't send a line of my work to not recognized journals. I prefer to publish less, but to be sure it's a good job on a good journal.Sep 24 02:12
AlbertoPtwitter, no when you publish you are NOT chargedSep 24 02:12
AlbertoPschestowitz, the "same papers"?Sep 24 02:13
schestowitzJournalis are gradually dying anyway.Sep 24 02:13
AlbertoPheheSep 24 02:13
twitterSome journals do indeed charge you for a minimum printing of articles.Sep 24 02:13
schestowitzEven with Academic/Scholar search, people's laziness beats it.Sep 24 02:13
AlbertoPyes, like microsoftSep 24 02:13
schestowitzLaugh all you want.Sep 24 02:13
AlbertoPtwitter, not the serious onesSep 24 02:13
twitterAlberto, your peers make sure your publications is good.Sep 24 02:14
schestowitzPeople who do research these days just google for fast answers..Sep 24 02:14
AlbertoPtwitter, read for example Elsevier policySep 24 02:14
schestowitzEven people whom I work with like the head of the CD dept.Sep 24 02:14
schestowitzJust googling their way between pages.Sep 24 02:14
twitterNicer people, read competent, have gotten fed up with journals.Sep 24 02:14
schestowitzschestowitz.com does about 6000 pages a day... some of it academix stuff.Sep 24 02:14
AlbertoPtwitter, oh well, I had various works rejected, and the reasons were all valid if I have to be honestSep 24 02:14
AlbertoPso yes, I can say they helped me in improving my job...Sep 24 02:15
twittersure, you peers are honest.Sep 24 02:15
schestowitzAlbertoP: journals make some papers just open for free reading now. They give upSep 24 02:15
schestowitzWSJ, NYT...Sep 24 02:15
schestowitzPeople see a subs page, they move on to other results...Sep 24 02:15
AlbertoPI don't say they are 100% honest. Maybe they rejected it because they were doing something similar. I don't know. I say they gave a valuable feedback. That's allSep 24 02:15
schestowitzIt's human nature... like claoking OK on EULAs blindly. Sep 24 02:15
schestowitzThey wants a solution as fact as possible. Paper = fat manualSep 24 02:16
schestowitz*fastSep 24 02:16
AlbertoPtwitter, how does the peer review process work? :)Sep 24 02:16
AlbertoPfor example, how many peers are contacted?Sep 24 02:17
AlbertoPschestowitz, google for research?Sep 24 02:17
AlbertoPresearch of what? rubbish?Sep 24 02:17
AlbertoPthere is no selection in the information, how can you trust that?Sep 24 02:18
AlbertoPpombat42, you seem reasonable. What are you doing here? :)Sep 24 02:19
schestowitzAlbertoP: multitasking ATMSep 24 02:20
schestowitzResearcdhing fdor answers.Sep 24 02:20
pombat42just watching the bombs fly back and forth while I eat my dinner :)Sep 24 02:20
schestowitzSometimes the need for some equationSep 24 02:20
AlbertoPpombat42, heheSep 24 02:20
schestowitzSometimes just the need for some pointer to actual papers.Sep 24 02:20
AlbertoPschestowitz, yes that's OK.Sep 24 02:21
schestowitzThe gateway is typically the search engine.Sep 24 02:21
schestowitzPut a gatekeeper page damanding money in a journal and the searcher will bump past it.Sep 24 02:21
AlbertoPso you skip papers because you have to pay for it?Sep 24 02:22
AlbertoPI mean,i if you do real research, you can't afford to do that ^^Sep 24 02:22
schestowitzAlbertoP: yes, pay = barrier (time is money)Sep 24 02:23
schestowitzAlbertoP: it's a tradeoff.Sep 24 02:23
AlbertoPit dependsSep 24 02:23
schestowitzI think the way research is done is a total waste.Sep 24 02:24
AlbertoPI could not do what I do without journals...all the info I need is thereSep 24 02:24
schestowitzNuclear garbage.Sep 24 02:24
schestowitzBelieve me, I;ve been there.Sep 24 02:24
schestowitzTotal watse of talent when people share work that's programming through /POSTERS/Sep 24 02:24
AlbertoPyou're not so old :)Sep 24 02:24
schestowitzShow me the code, as Cox said.Sep 24 02:24
AlbertoPlolSep 24 02:24
schestowitzI'm not old.Sep 24 02:24
AlbertoPposters? but who wants posters?Sep 24 02:24
schestowitzYou are more experienced than me, I don't dispute that.Sep 24 02:25
AlbertoPtheir values is zeroSep 24 02:25
schestowitzEven the IEEE still does them.Sep 24 02:25
schestowitzOr limiting programming tasks to textual description or pseudo-code.Sep 24 02:25
AlbertoPoh well, all conferences do, and it is a good way to know other researcher...that's OKSep 24 02:25
schestowitzYou want some good IEEE CD?Sep 24 02:25
AlbertoPhmm no, I would not understand much probaly anywaySep 24 02:25
schestowitzDrop the PDFs, shove some source cord in. Let people share knowledge not through pseudo code.Sep 24 02:25
AlbertoPnot really IT expert :PSep 24 02:26
schestowitzLet them reuse work and build on the work of giants.Sep 24 02:26
AlbertoPwell, I'm luckySep 24 02:26
schestowitzWe live in wonderful times when we can duplicate and 'plug in' knowledge, interweaving ideas.Sep 24 02:26
AlbertoPI work on simulation stuff...so the math is the language and the code at the same time ^^Sep 24 02:26
schestowitzSome paper deliberately obfuscate knowledge or have some patents related to them (fencesSep 24 02:26
AlbertoPthey can't say much against a paper written with math...if it's correctSep 24 02:26
AlbertoPwell, "duplicating" knowledge is quite useless...science should be about original stuffSep 24 02:28
AlbertoPthe rest is crapSep 24 02:28
AlbertoPbut the barrier to publish on really good journal is really high, so it's not so easy to publishSep 24 02:29
schestowitzWho would read it?Sep 24 02:31
schestowitz1 years from now, 5 years from now, 20 years from now?Sep 24 02:31
AlbertoPhum?Sep 24 02:31
AlbertoPwho? everyone working in that field probably?Sep 24 02:32
AlbertoPI read papers of 60-70 years ago for my PhD, still valid today...Sep 24 02:32
AlbertoPthat's the whole point of journals...keeping informationSep 24 02:33
schestowitzYou think of key papers.Sep 24 02:33
schestowitzLike Entropy and Shannon.Sep 24 02:33
AlbertoPof course, but you don't know what's key and what's not key...that's the problemSep 24 02:33
schestowitzAnd that's pre-digitisationSep 24 02:33
AlbertoPa stupid findings today might be the base of a huge one tomorrow...Sep 24 02:33
AlbertoPhum?Sep 24 02:34
schestowitzWhat about likelihood?Sep 24 02:34
schestowitzI've read stats on readership of journals.Sep 24 02:34
schestowitzBack-cites too.Sep 24 02:34
schestowitzVery poor compared to the Web;Sep 24 02:34
schestowitzRMS no longer seems to write book. GNU and FSF have better reachSep 24 02:34
AlbertoPhow can you compare the web with a scientific, specific and higly selected journal is not really clear to meSep 24 02:35
AlbertoPgnu and fsf...well, I can't really be surprisedSep 24 02:35
AlbertoPa book is there, and can be examined easily if you buy it, and discussedSep 24 02:35
AlbertoPinformation on the web is so widespread it's a real job to find it, and to confute it if it's the caseSep 24 02:36
AlbertoPthe web is a good way to exchange information, but it is too easy to manipulateSep 24 02:36
schestowitzIt gets easier over time. More tolls. Google Patents for instance.Sep 24 02:36
schestowitz*toolsSep 24 02:36
AlbertoPI think we will move towards scientific online journals, but not very far from that in many fieldsSep 24 02:37
AlbertoPmedia might change, not the concepts behindSep 24 02:37
schestowitzThere's a guage or reputation.Sep 24 02:37
schestowitztimbl works on this a little further ATMSep 24 02:37
schestowitzGoogle PR ain't enough for credibility gauging.Sep 24 02:37
AlbertoPok, but peer review has to be anonymous...Sep 24 02:38
schestowitzYes..Sep 24 02:38
schestowitzAnd it is.Sep 24 02:38
schestowitzWikipedia for example.Sep 24 02:38
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AlbertoPwell, wikipeadia is a nice idea, but the quality sucksSep 24 02:38
AlbertoPI read such a big mistake about chemistry and math there...Sep 24 02:39
AlbertoPof course you can fix it, but well...Sep 24 02:39
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schestowitzIt needs time to mature in some areas.Sep 24 02:43
AlbertoPwell sureSep 24 02:43
schestowitzLots of libel there, still...Sep 24 02:43
AlbertoPanyway...if you want a scientific career, better you publish on good journals :)Sep 24 02:44
AlbertoPbecause they make a differenceSep 24 02:44
schestowitzNo, I'm getting out of it.Sep 24 02:46
schestowitzSeems like a nightmare reviewing papers, checking exams, memorising stuff...Sep 24 02:48
schestowitzAnyway, I'm going to bed now. Hopefully I'll see you tomorrow.Sep 24 02:48
AlbertoPwell, I don't teach ^^Sep 24 02:48
AlbertoPokSep 24 02:48
AlbertoPn8Sep 24 02:48
pombat42byeSep 24 02:55
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zoobabhiSep 24 07:38
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schestowitzHi, zoobab.Sep 24 08:30
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zoobabhiSep 24 08:45
schestowitzWhat's up? I made some changes last night (Wiki)Sep 24 08:45
zoobabI have launched operation "Get the list"Sep 24 08:45
zoobabI saw themSep 24 08:45
schestowitzList?!?Sep 24 08:45
zoobabstatement needs to be simpleSep 24 08:45
zoobabhttp://stopsoftwarepatents.org/getthelistSep 24 08:45
zoobabthe list of things you cannot do anymore :-)Sep 24 08:46
zoobabI am gonna activate our people to write to their MPs and POsSep 24 08:46
zoobabyou can also improve the letters if you wantSep 24 08:46
schestowitzYou know John Doe? :-DSep 24 08:47
schestowitzI went to sleep at 4 AM, so need to catch up for a while.Sep 24 08:47
zoobabI sawSep 24 08:47
zoobabzoobab@erika /home/zoobab [5]$ wget http://research.ibm.com//files/stand...Sep 24 08:48
zoobab--10:51:45--  http://research.ibm.com//files/... => `standards_wikis.shtml'Sep 24 08:48
zoobabResolving research.ibm.com... failed: Name or service not known.Sep 24 08:49
schestowitz"More recently the company has announced the availability of its services-based solutions for Microsoft Windows Server 2008 Hyper-V and the Microsoft System Center management suite – which will presumably be none of McGrath’s business" http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/ne...Sep 24 08:49
schestowitzCEO is leaving. Maybe another Core/Novell, i.e. company besieged by Microsoft.Sep 24 08:49
schestowitzhttp://research.ibm.com/Sep 24 08:50
schestowitzServer not foundSep 24 08:50
schestowitz*Gulp* Oracle.com was down some times recently.Sep 24 08:50
schestowitzMaybe IBM is cutting down on research. :-DSep 24 08:50
zoobabhttp://www.research.ibm.com//files/standardsfo...Sep 24 08:53
zoobabhttp://www.research.ibm.com//files/standar...Sep 24 08:53
schestowitzServer is back.Sep 24 08:55
schestowitzhttp://www.research.ibm.com/Sep 24 08:56
schestowitzSutor is there. He escaped my question to him about patents and IBM.Sep 24 08:56
schestowitzJust in like telemarketing, these people are in denial. They work for IBM, so they'll pretend and perfume those poor policies on patents.Sep 24 08:57
zoobabISO certification does not make something an open standard.Sep 24 09:02
zoobabThe recent Hague Declaration should be accommodated by all signatories to the World Trade Organization.Sep 24 09:03
zoobabOpen standards should be defined as those that are developed in an open and transparent standards development process and are freely available. Intellectual property must be irrevocably made available on a royalty-free basis, patents, if any must be licensed for free.Sep 24 09:03
schestowitzInte's 'gift': http://www.gmanews.tv/story/122389/3... Intel also dumped Windows PCs in Nigeria (sold at a loss) to defeat OLPC. How nice.Sep 24 09:03
schestowitzzoobab: where's it from?Sep 24 09:04
schestowitzMore Intel 'training' (probably Windows): http://nigerianbulletin.com/nigeria-business-finance-ne...Sep 24 09:05
zoobabintel is chasing OLPCSep 24 09:07
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zoobabthey go in each country with their classmate thingySep 24 09:07
schestowitzhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/apr/08/cr... Toxic shock: how the banking industry created a global crisisSep 24 09:08
schestowitz"The banking industry is gripped by a credit crisis that has taken the US economy to the brink of recession. Two banks have, in effect, been nationalised, house prices are tumbling and it is harder to secure a home loan. In a major investigation, Jill Treanor looks at the flawed financial products at the heart of the credit crunch and explores how the banks brought the crisis on themselves and how it could mark a return to basics."Sep 24 09:08
zoobabI wanted to create the OnePenPerChild FoundationSep 24 09:08
schestowitzzoobab: it's a PR charade and lock in new markets. They need to sell chips, chips, chips... "Chipzilla," remember?Sep 24 09:08
zoobabhttp://onepenperchild.wikidot.com/startSep 24 09:10
schestowitzHow many Wikidot domains are there?Sep 24 09:11
schestowitzThis one is offensive.Sep 24 09:11
zoobabme, a lot :-)Sep 24 09:11
zoobabwhy?Sep 24 09:11
zoobabI could make it more offensive, but I won't enter into the laptop arenaSep 24 09:12
schestowitzLet them eat pens..?Sep 24 09:13
zoobab11541.pts-7.vicSep 24 09:15
zoobabshitSep 24 09:15
zoobab mplayer mms://wm.streampower.be/ep-video1_enSep 24 09:16
zoobabtelecom package in 20 minsSep 24 09:16
zoobab10 minsSep 24 09:16
zoobabthey will decide whether you can filter the internet or notSep 24 09:16
schestowitzAny chance against it? I doubt it.Sep 24 09:17
schestowitzThey'll try over and over again until someone wikileaks (as in a verb) some more stuffSep 24 09:18
schestowitz(Not just ACTA, more like Media 'Defender') Sep 24 09:18
schestowitzYesterday: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10047945-38.html...Sep 24 09:19
zoobab ACTA in NL: mms://213.75.12.106/TKStream13Sep 24 09:29
zoobabnow!Sep 24 09:29
schestowitzACTA-ion and ReACTA-ion : http://www.computerworlduk.com/toolbox/op...Sep 24 09:31
schestowitzStop the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement: http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/community_pos...Sep 24 09:31
schestowitzACTA's Unspeakable Acts : http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.co...Sep 24 09:31
schestowitzFree Software leader slams NZ copyright : http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/news/0064FE27...Sep 24 09:31
schestowitzAct Now on ACTA : http://www.computerworlduk.com/toolbox/open-source/b...Sep 24 09:31
schestowitzSysadmins slam ACMA web filtering study : http://www.itwire.com/content/view/19763/1054/Sep 24 09:31
schestowitzIETF tackling P2P data traffic in Tokyo even though the same content is available on a server in London. : http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker...Sep 24 09:31
schestowitzWhy We Must React to ACTA: http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/why-we-must-react-actaSep 24 09:31
schestowitzSenators Plan To Unveil New IP Bill: http://techdailydose.nationaljournal.com/2008/07/sena...Sep 24 09:31
schestowitzFSF organizes against Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement : http://www.linux.com/feature/142403Sep 24 09:31
schestowitzACTA threatens free software : http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/actaSep 24 09:31
schestowitzThe right to peer inside your iPod : http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...Sep 24 09:31
schestowitzMicrosoft could force your mobile into silence :  http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-com...Sep 24 09:31
schestowitzDigital copyright: it's all wrong : http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/technology/digital-c...Sep 24 09:31
schestowitzEmbattled ACTA Negotiations Next Week In Geneva; US Sees Signing This Year : http://www.ip-watch.org/weblog/index.php?p=1071Sep 24 09:31
zoobabhttp://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10047945-38.htmlSep 24 09:33
schestowitzYes, that's the one I've just posted (10 mins ago)Sep 24 09:34
schestowitzIt's not just Bush. I think NZ is the only country that at least mentioned it to the public.Sep 24 09:34
schestowitzHollywood Xmas wishlist + rubbing up pollies >> new lawSep 24 09:35
zoobabI need to make a post about the swpat urgency in NZSep 24 09:38
zoobabACTA is hereLSep 24 10:26
zoobabmedia.ffii.org/ActaTweedeKamer080924/tweede-or-11h31.wmvSep 24 10:26
zoobabhttp://media.ffii.org/ActaTweedeKamer080...Sep 24 10:26
schestowitzThanks.Sep 24 10:27
schestowitzI've just found out something.Sep 24 10:27
schestowitzhttp://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=2923Sep 24 10:27
schestowitzAnti-FOSSSep 24 10:27
schestowitzFollow the money...Sep 24 10:27
schestowitzhttp://www.kpcb.com/team/pao "Russell joined KPCB after seven years at Microsoft. At Microsoft he helped launch LAN Manager, Microsoft's first network operating system, then was the marketing manager in charge of Windows for Workgroups, a small-business networking version of Windows. For the first half of 1993, Russell worked directly for Bill Gates..."Sep 24 10:27
schestowitzThey also work with AppleSep 24 10:28
schestowitzzoobab: it's not even in  EN (the video)Sep 24 10:31
schestowitzMy mate says: "Prepare yourself for the worst. the fed cannot pump one trillion dollars of public cash to subsidise the greed and failures of the corporate hoares on wall street. Hideous  Inflation will follow then full scale meltdown, this is just a finger in the dyke, any market rallies in the next few weeks are just a dead cat bouncing. Wall street has been feeding off tomorrow for far too long, well tomorrow has just come home Sep 24 10:32
schestowitzto roost, what a surprise."Sep 24 10:32
*[H]omer is away: sleep beer sleep beer sleepSep 24 10:39
zoobabhttp://media.ffii.org/TelecomPackVote080824/Sep 24 10:39
schestowitzWhy WMV?Sep 24 10:40
schestowitzKaffeine gets these, but it's bad to encourage that former.Sep 24 10:40
schestowitzEven MPEG is better because of the holderSep 24 10:40
zoobabhttp://stopeptv.wikidot.comSep 24 10:41
zoobabstop this shit nowSep 24 10:41
zoobabstop this M$ shit nowSep 24 10:41
schestowitzYes, I know.Sep 24 10:41
schestowitzSame in the UKSep 24 10:41
schestowitz"Obviously BECTA never played Frontier. They make Microsoft look like a cuddly nonprofit." from Recent:Sep 24 10:42
schestowitzMicrosoft's interoperability dodge in UK schoolsSep 24 10:42
schestowitz,----[ Quote ]Sep 24 10:42
schestowitz| discounts only make it cheaper to fall into lock-in. The Open SourceSep 24 10:42
schestowitz| Consortium's president Mark Taylor says it well: "Schools can now chooseSep 24 10:42
schestowitz| between long-term software freedom or a short-term discount on the nextSep 24 10:42
schestowitz| lock-in play."Sep 24 10:42
schestowitz|Sep 24 10:42
schestowitz| Fortunately, groups like Becta, which brought the original complaint againstSep 24 10:42
schestowitz| Microsoft to the European Commission, are unlikely to fall asleep at theSep 24 10:42
schestowitz| wheel.Sep 24 10:42
schestowitz|Sep 24 10:42
schestowitz| Microsoft will no doubt eventually be forced into offering interoperabilitySep 24 10:42
schestowitz| alongside its discounts.Sep 24 10:42
schestowitz`----Sep 24 10:42
schestowitzhttp://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10043997-16.htmlSep 24 10:42
schestowitzBECTA Back in PlaySep 24 10:42
schestowitz,----[ Quote ]Sep 24 10:42
schestowitz| Just in case you thought things were getting a little dull in the world of UKSep 24 10:42
schestowitz| computing compared to, say, UK finance, here comes the BECTA roller-coasterSep 24 10:42
schestowitz| again:Sep 24 10:42
schestowitz|Sep 24 10:42
schestowitz| "Becta has been working closely with Microsoft to understand how the variousSep 24 10:42
schestowitz| issues identified in relation to interoperability in its Office 2007 productSep 24 10:42
schestowitz| will be addressed. Becta takes the view that effective interoperability is anSep 24 10:42
schestowitz| important component of the technology infrastructure needed to improveSep 24 10:42
schestowitz| educational outcomes, facilitate home school links and address the digitalSep 24 10:42
schestowitz| divide."Sep 24 10:42
schestowitz|Sep 24 10:42
schestowitz| Ah, yes, interoperability: Microsoft's favourite word of the moment.Sep 24 10:42
schestowitz`----Sep 24 10:42
schestowitzhttp://www.computerworlduk.com/toolbox/open-sourc...Sep 24 10:42
schestowitzOpen source has yet to learn it pays to advertiseSep 24 10:42
schestowitz,----[ Quote ]Sep 24 10:42
schestowitz| Why is it that all these open source news sites, blog sites, and resourceSep 24 10:42
schestowitz| sites are still being sponsored by Microsoft?Sep 24 10:42
schestowitz`----Sep 24 10:42
schestowitzhttp://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=2563Sep 24 10:42
schestowitzIan Lynch's take on the BECTA fiascoSep 24 10:42
schestowitz,----[ Quote ]Sep 24 10:42
schestowitz| Fundamentally, I’m not complaining that we were not successful in theSep 24 10:42
schestowitz| tender - I have no idea how strong the winning bid was. I’m complaining thatSep 24 10:42
schestowitz| the tender process adopted was broken. This is despite the fact that 130 MPsSep 24 10:42
schestowitz| signed Sep 24 10:42
schestowitzBig oops!Sep 24 10:42
schestowitzFrom here: http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2008/09/23/becta_op...Sep 24 10:43
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schestowitzzoobab: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.a...Sep 24 10:53
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_DougSchestowitz: who are all these lurkers ?Sep 24 11:06
schestowitzNovell folks. Some of them..Sep 24 11:07
schestowitzCOLA trolls lurk as well based on something posted there yesterday (at least one).Sep 24 11:07
_DougWell, kick them after 20 minutes inactivity ..Sep 24 11:09
schestowitzNo. BTW, by "Novell" I mean people who defend them, not employees.Sep 24 11:09
_DougWho are these COLA trolls ?Sep 24 11:14
_Dougnew topic:Sep 24 11:15
_Doughow the banking industry created a global crisisSep 24 11:15
_Doughttp://www.guardian.co.uk/business/200...Sep 24 11:16
_Doug'some of the complex financial instruments being pumped out by the world's biggest investment banks were potentially "toxic". 'Sep 24 11:16
_Dougwell , DOH ...Sep 24 11:16
_DougA shell game designed to confuse the 'investor'Sep 24 11:16
schestowitz_Doug: seen that article (via GL)Sep 24 11:17
schestowitzWatch me get flak from Novell lovers: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/23/nove...Sep 24 11:17
_DougBlack-Scholes, a rehash of some formula from physics ..Sep 24 11:18
schestowitzG0d bl3ss Wall Street!Sep 24 11:18
_DougA sub-atomic particle borrows energy from he future, and pays it back quickly enough so as the rest of the universe don't notice.Sep 24 11:18
schestowitz:-)Sep 24 11:19
_DougSo, these sub-prime instruments, endlessly traded promised to pay back from non-existant future earnings ..Sep 24 11:19
schestowitzhax0r physicists.Sep 24 11:19
_DougAs long as you don't look under the cups, then you can't realy be sure there's nothing really there ?Sep 24 11:20
_DougThe principle of indeterminacy  .. :)Sep 24 11:20
schestowitzI wodner what economics blogs have said.Sep 24 11:20
_DougDon't know, I'm putting my money in gold :)Sep 24 11:21
schestowitzSurely lots of people saw this coming, inc.. friends of mine? Television and Hollywood? "Buy, buy... tomorrow is our dream."Sep 24 11:21
schestowitzAs I have said before, it's those with a loan who will suffer the most. :-(Sep 24 11:21
schestowitzPut it in oil. It ain't gettin' any cheaperSep 24 11:22
schestowitzzoobab: ta for that: http://www.digitalmajority.org/forum/t-86599/displaying-the-p...Sep 24 11:22
_DougNovell would be a good buy right now ..Sep 24 11:31
_Doughttp://finance.google.com/finance?q=novl&hl=enSep 24 11:32
schestowitzHow do you know?Sep 24 11:32
schestowitzIf that was true, people would buy it until the share meets actual real/perceived value.Sep 24 11:32
schestowitzStocks aren't just gambling; it's the cheaters that win.Sep 24 11:32
_DougIt's undervalued, the whole stocl exchange is undervalued, now is a good time to snap up real tech companies ..Sep 24 11:32
schestowitz"Tomorrow will /always/ be better"Sep 24 11:34
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AVRS2http://altlinux.info/news/world/20080922.1334Sep 24 12:10
AVRS2That article is talking (with typos) about Belgium moving to SU.SESep 24 12:11
AVRS2*SUSE.Sep 24 12:11
schestowitzAnything about the schools.Sep 24 12:11
schestowitzIntel and Microsoft try to foil this, you know?Sep 24 12:11
AVRS2No, a ministry.Sep 24 12:11
schestowitzWhere in Belgium?Sep 24 12:11
schestowitzzoobab is from Belgium.Sep 24 12:11
AVRS2that which is called "Department of Justice" in USASep 24 12:12
AVRS2During this year, 2500 new workspaces(?) with "OS Linux" have been introduced.Sep 24 12:14
schestowitzBallnux?Sep 24 12:14
AVRS2See above, SUSE.Sep 24 12:15
AVRS2ohSep 24 12:15
AVRS2sorry :)Sep 24 12:15
schestowitzhoughi is from Belgium. S.u.S.E. has some fans there.Sep 24 12:16
schestowitzI think the guy who makes ELive is Belgian.Sep 24 12:16
*AVRS2 confused Ballnux with something like BelenixSep 24 12:17
schestowitz:-) No, Ballnux is Ballnux. http://www.google.com/search?source....Sep 24 12:21
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-christel-[Global Notice] Hi all, in about ten (10) minutes we will experience slight network disturbances while we physically move one of our hubs to a different rack, some client servers will during that time be missing from the network, downtime should be short and affected users in the region of 4,000. Thank you for using freenode and have a great day.Sep 24 13:08
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PetoKrausIs someone here using ekiga?Sep 24 13:19
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twitterWow, the trolls really did come out on the issue of Novell's stock price demise.Sep 24 14:51
schestowitzYes, I know.Sep 24 14:51
schestowitzThey also defend Microsoft in another thread.Sep 24 14:52
twitterIt's funny how they talk about "most" analysts saying buy, buy, buy.  It would be interesting to see what the same analysts said about SCO stock.Sep 24 14:52
schestowitzWhat scared me most are wolves in sheep's clothing, i.e. people who purport to be Linux users and actually defend what Microsoft is doing. GL had some of these and PJ often managed to unmask them... MS agents.Sep 24 14:53
twitterThat kind of thing is designed to disrupt the community and make people trust each other less.Sep 24 14:54
schestowitzYes, Robbins and Gentoo for example.Sep 24 14:54
twitterM$ works tirelessly to put their message in their enemies words and minds.Sep 24 14:54
twitterI'm not familiar with Robbins.Sep 24 14:55
schestowitz">Diversionary tactics, holding action, and retreats may each seem contrary to the achievement of the overall objective when considered solely in their own terms, but taken in light of the overall conflict, may contribute to overall success. In the Chinese Civil War that followed World War II, Mao Tse Tung's Army ran away from every battle, until they won the war. They knew that overall victory, not local victory, was the objectiveSep 24 14:55
schestowitz."Sep 24 14:55
schestowitz--Microsoft, internal document < http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/... >Sep 24 14:55
schestowitzThere's another big where this Microsoft document talks about creating civil wars.Sep 24 14:56
twitterNow I start to understand Google's strategy of conflict avoidance.Sep 24 14:58
twitterSomeone has to point things out though.Sep 24 14:58
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schestowitzhttp://tinyurl.com/3u334u "Patricia Q. Stonesifer, who stepped down as chief executive of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, is expected to be named as chairwoman of the Smithsonian Institution."Sep 24 15:00
schestowitzThere's everywhere!Sep 24 15:01
schestowitzHer husband 'planted' some glorifying articles about the Gates Fundation [sic] some weeks ago.Sep 24 15:01
twittersad for Smithsonian.Sep 24 15:01
schestowitz"New Chairwoman Poised to Reform Smithsonian"  .......... REFORM? What /type/ of reform? She worked for Gates for ages and now she's in govt'?Sep 24 15:01
twitterOh crap.  Here comes a silverblighted, drm crazy archive effort.Sep 24 15:02
schestowitzFor  future reference: http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=http://www...Sep 24 15:03
twitterbroken link.Sep 24 15:03
schestowitzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smithsonian "The Smithsonian Institution (pronounced /smɪθsoʊnɪən/) is an educational and research institute and associated museum complex, administered and funded by the government of the United States and by funds from its endowment, contributions, and profits from its shops and its magazine. Most of its facilities are located in Washington, D.C."Sep 24 15:03
schestowitzI was there 2 years ago.Sep 24 15:03
twittersecond one worked.  have not looked at wikiSep 24 15:04
schestowitzhttp://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl...Sep 24 15:04
twitterLouisiana's archive did a crappy drm'd effort.  M$ wants to own your history, it seems to be a continuation of their Encarta efforts.Sep 24 15:05
schestowitzTying invaluable assets to Microsoft is something to watch out for, just in case an announcement is made some time in the future. That's what my friend means by "toxic"... people moving from place to place, but actually doing more harm than before that way.Sep 24 15:05
schestowitzThat's how they can get bankruptcy protection.Sep 24 15:05
twitterFrom the NYT, " The organization spent the last  18 months buffeted by bad news, starting with revelations about the excessive personal spending of its former secretary, Lawrence M. Small, who resigned in March 2007. In response to increased pressure from lawmakers on Capitol Hill and its own internal investigations, the Smithsonian has implemented changes to improve oversight and to try to restore the public trust. "Sep 24 15:06
twitterDo you think M$ did one of their famous hit jobs, like they did to Peter Quinn?Sep 24 15:06
schestowitzIvy Lessner, long-time Microsoft booster/shill/whatever: "Microsoft's Buyback: No Big Deal"Sep 24 15:07
schestowitzhttp://www.thestreet.com/story/10438890/1/microsofts-bu...Sep 24 15:07
schestowitzOn the other hand: "Microsoft plans stock buyback, debt sale" http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=236715Sep 24 15:08
schestowitzBloomberg: "Microsoft Plans Debt Sales, $40 Billion Stock Buyback" http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087...Sep 24 15:08
schestowitzAsk Ivy: since when is DEBT "No Big Deal"? The spinners are busy this week.Sep 24 15:08
schestowitzI posted about this in USENET and a new full-time Munchkin that never post there before showed up attacking everything and everyone.Sep 24 15:09
twitterYeah, I put up a link to Forbes where they laughably called such "unorthodox" behavior "muscle"Sep 24 15:09
twitterThe spinners are out in force because the news is so bad.Sep 24 15:09
schestowitzThey should illegalise those pumpers/boosters... it's like'damage control' pump and dump.Sep 24 15:09
twitterIt is against the law to do most of these things.Sep 24 15:10
schestowitzThose who 'dare' to claim it negative get attacked.Sep 24 15:10
twitterRalph Nader nailed GM for that kind of thing.Sep 24 15:11
twitterHe got lucky and had the backing of a big media company at the time.Sep 24 15:11
schestowitzI posted about Gutmann an hour ago. The smear campaign and all...Sep 24 15:11
schestowitzFrom http://billparish.com/msftfraudfacts.html "Don't let yourself be intimidated or deceived by financial analysts, TV commentators, bullies on Internet forums or Microsoft's elaborate public relations campaign. "Sep 24 15:12
twitterGood.Sep 24 15:13
schestowitz"Bill Gates has publicly said that this is his favorite publication on finance and economics.  It is also generally believed to be the leading such publication in the world. In an 8/7/99 cover story, The Economist noted that a proper accounting at Microsoft would result in a loss of $18 billion for 1998 rather than the reported earnings of $4.5 billion."Sep 24 15:13
schestowitz"Bill Gates trusts The Economist and you should too. Abbey Joseph Cohen and Rick Sherlund of Goldman Sachs have been sent this material numerous times over a 9 month period and neither has publicly divulged this situation. "Sep 24 15:13
twitterYou know from personal experience how the smear goes too from them writing officials at your University.Sep 24 15:13
schestowitzNot them, not directly.Sep 24 15:14
schestowitzIf that at all was the case. It was the Munchins who have plagues OS/2 and GNU/Linux NGs for over a decade.Sep 24 15:14
schestowitzI sent Mary Jo Foley a reference the other day.Sep 24 15:14
twitterSomeone wrote to your University the way someone wrote to Guttman's boss.Sep 24 15:15
schestowitzhttp://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.os2.advocac... Sep 24 15:15
twitterThese things need to be tied back to M$ and some kind of lawsuit needs to happen.Sep 24 15:15
schestowitzShe did not deny.Sep 24 15:15
schestowitz"Ah... the good old days! When astroturfing was somewhat uncommon (as anonymous blog commentators weren't really around yet)... Thanks for a fun memory. "Sep 24 15:15
twitterHow many publishers carry Ogg Theora?Sep 24 15:16
twitteras a content choice?Sep 24 15:16
schestowitzVery few, mainly FOSS sites.Sep 24 15:17
schestowitzIncentive will be provided to those who choose WMV or whatever I imagineSep 24 15:18
schestowitzIOW, you need money to enter the money and be accepted, as opposed to charging someSep 24 15:18
schestowitzDid you know that Microsoft 'bribed' the Library of Congress $2 million to choose Silverlight?Sep 24 15:19
schestowitzAsk you senator for a tax return. Microsoft is paying the government to lock you out (GNU/Linux users)Sep 24 15:19
schestowitzIn the news:  'Halo' MMO canned by Microsoft ( http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/gaming/a130982/halo... )Sep 24 15:19
schestowitzYes, "Microsoft is doing great". Going into debt? Naaaa.... "No Big Deal," says Ivy Lessner, long-time Microsoft booster (no disclosure or anything)Sep 24 15:20
MinceRapparently, a "no big deal" is "doing great". :>Sep 24 15:34
schestowitzYes, I saw no other shills quite like that.Sep 24 15:35
schestowitzAbout 30 headlines about the buybacks I just went through.Sep 24 15:35
schestowitzI clicked on the "doing great" one thinking "which shill will it be this time"? Since I saw The Street, I knew it would be her.Sep 24 15:36
schestowitzShe also published other such propaganda against Linux ("Microsoft is cleaning up with Windows").Sep 24 15:36
schestowitzI think it was about China. It's always just Microsoft cheering... blindly... even when going into debt. Same with Motley Fool.Sep 24 15:37
schestowitzWatch this fluff I just found: http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/m...Sep 24 15:38
schestowitz"Microsoft and the USO Announce Second Annual A Salute to Our Troops [...] During this year's Veterans Day weekend, Nov. 7-9, 2008, Microsoft Corp. will partner with the USO to recognize and thank the military community by hosting the second annual A Salute to Our Troops through a unique New York weekend experience. "Sep 24 15:38
schestowitzBill Gates: "It's easier for our software to compete with Linux when there's piracy than when there's not."Sep 24 15:39
schestowitzBut... in the news: Microsoft cuts prices in China to fight piracy ( http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssTechMediaTe...  )Sep 24 15:40
schestowitzSo some people are supposedly "raping of women and murdering of people" (piracy) and Gates says he likes it.Sep 24 15:40
schestowitzThe Reuters article ought to say something like "Microsoft cuts prices in China to fight free software and addict people to Microsoft" (Gates' expression)Sep 24 15:41
schestowitzAnother find:  Microsoft co-founder, philanthropist ( http://www.smartbrief.com/news/nei... ). More blind glorification. Because, of course, those who are rich are also good-hearted and the Gates Foundation is not about tax evasion and investments.Sep 24 15:43
schestowitz Ivy Lessner: "Microsoft Gives Shareholders a Gift" (Spin, Spin, Spin, Spin, Spin, Spin, Spin, Spin) http://www.thestreet.com/story/10438725/1/m...Sep 24 15:45
schestowitzhttp://news.morningstar.com/newsnet/ViewNews.aspx?artic... ( Microsoft India Says Hasn't Received Tax Notice,Can't Comment )Sep 24 15:47
schestowitzMicrosoft Jack (Jack Schofield):  Microsoft plans to give away $40 billion "Yahoo money"  (Spin, Spin, Spin, Spin, Spin, Spin, Spin, Spin)Sep 24 15:50
schestowitzhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/techno...Sep 24 15:50
schestowitzIsn't it just amazing how all the Microsoft shills flood the news with Microsoft spin? It's not debt. It's Microsoft being 'generous'. It's giving gifts to society.Sep 24 15:50
schestowitz"Basically, it's just replacing the last $40bn buyback with another: it's business as usual. Microsoft says..."Sep 24 15:51
schestowitzWhat does /Jack/ say? Echoing Microsoft PR is not journalism.Sep 24 15:52
schestowitzhttp://www.itbusinessedge.com/blogs/hdw/?p=3131 "Microsoft is touting the “greeness” of the massive new data center just opened near San Antonio, Texas. It’s about the size of 10 football fields, with one trip around the building a 1.3-mile walk, reports InformationWeek." Green datacentre.... go figure... like "Thin elephant" or "poor billionaire"Sep 24 15:53
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zoobabwhois microtroll.netSep 24 16:14
zoobabis freeSep 24 16:14
schestowitzInstead of giving one to RMS < http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/... > they give it to people with money... even kids of people with money. Sep 24 16:14
schestowitzzoobab: what's that?Sep 24 16:14
schestowitzServer not foundSep 24 16:15
schestowitzAre you doing another Microturf site like Pieter's?Sep 24 16:15
zoobabWhat is MicroTroll? MicroTroll is a patent which aims to get rid of a monopolitistic american company. We have a lot of patents in our portfolio, and we are interested in excluding competitors from exploiting our inventions.Sep 24 16:16
zoobabthis is my idea to have powerful antitrustSep 24 16:16
zoobabmuch more efficient then what the Commission is able to doSep 24 16:16
schestowitzWell...Sep 24 16:16
zoobabtrolls not only go for money, but for product removalSep 24 16:17
zoobab:-)Sep 24 16:17
schestowitzSee the reply I just for here half an hour ago: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.li...Sep 24 16:17
schestowitzIt hasn't shown up yet. It said: "Don't worry---teams of lawyers with suitcases full of cash are rushing to Brussels as we speak.  Before you know it, t he ECJ will be filled with Microsoft lackeys."Sep 24 16:18
schestowitzRemember (quite important) that Microsoft tried to embargo 2 products recently.Sep 24 16:18
schestowitzIt's almost unprecedented, but Microsoft attacked products with patents.Sep 24 16:19
zoobabthe minister here wants to get rid of the consumer law for tied sellingSep 24 16:19
zoobabthey attacked Samba in courtSep 24 16:19
zoobaband they are continuing to do soSep 24 16:19
schestowitzWho's involved?Sep 24 16:20
schestowitzIt's all about people and who they are connected to (interests)Sep 24 16:20
zoobabexcept that people and journalists are stupid enough to follow what MS puts out as PRSep 24 16:20
zoobabaitSep 24 16:20
zoobabwaitrSep 24 16:20
schestowitzzoobab: seen the above conv. yet?Sep 24 16:21
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schestowitzI've just gone through 3000 articles and gave some examples of this.Sep 24 16:21
zoobabgroklaw had an article about the appeal for the "fine", linking to some curia.eu websiteSep 24 16:21
zoobabbut groklaw does not seem to have a search engineSep 24 16:21
schestowitzIt's enough for one journo to /ECHO/ a PR and then have his 'article' be trested like an articdle, not a press release.Sep 24 16:22
schestowitzRemember how Maureen O'Gara planed an article for Microsoft. people can then cite her as 'relible source'Sep 24 16:22
zoobabECIS lawyer told me they were also appealing the patent licencing to SambaSep 24 16:22
schestowitzDon't ever forget Durusau, with links to his letter lining up like cannon balls from MSDNSep 24 16:22
schestowitzIt does (GL)Sep 24 16:23
schestowitzWait.Sep 24 16:23
schestowitzYou can also do a Google search (or yahoo) with "site:"Sep 24 16:24
schestowitzComments are not indexed though (it's deliberate, but you can get them using GL search: http://www.groklaw.net/search.phpSep 24 16:25
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schestowitzMicrosoft just been dumped: http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer...Sep 24 16:31
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schestowitzhttp://www.fanaticattack.com/2008/buffetpaulsong... "Hank Paulson, a former co-CEO of Goldman Sachs, wants $700 billion from the American public to bail out some financial institutions - who, what, when, where and how are unknown. Why? Because. [...] Something smells fishy, right? Well, we haven’t got half the story, which is why the stench will get bigger."Sep 24 16:51
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twittergotta go for a while.Sep 24 17:07
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pombat42wrt to the Wall Street problem, CNN is reporting that the FBI will be investigating the 3 firms that are in trouble. It was encouraging until they mentioned that the FBI is currently investigating 15+ other firms as well which leads me to believe it's smokeSep 24 17:59
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schestowitzpombat42: scalating this to FBI level is weird. What happened to the SEC and other watcher. The FBI is now  a transparent establishment, so it reeks "secrecy"Sep 24 18:06
schestowitzzoobab: "You posted the position of Oracle Corporation. Not Adobe" http://stopsoftwarepatents.org/forum/t-91677/ado...Sep 24 18:09
AVRS2http://stopsoftwarepatents.org/animation – in a non-free format?Sep 24 18:12
pombat42I think if criminal activity is suspected the FBI gets involved. In other words it goes well beyond trading scams and into the realm of running the company into the ground for their own self gainSep 24 18:12
pombat42Also AIG is an insurance company so the SEC does not pertain, me thinks?Sep 24 18:13
zoobabI corrected itSep 24 18:14
pombat42I hope they round all those bums up and put them in jail, real jail, for a long time to pay for the lives they have and are still ruiningSep 24 18:14
zoobabI will put an OGG fileSep 24 18:14
AVRS2.ogvSep 24 18:14
zoobabRoy, can you convert it for me?Sep 24 18:14
zoobab.ogv yesSep 24 18:14
AVRS2Ogg is spelt this waySep 24 18:14
AVRS2thxSep 24 18:14
zoobabhttp://stopsoftwarepatents.org/forum/t-91720/...Sep 24 18:14
schestowitzhttp://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNew...Sep 24 18:15
schestowitzFBI said to probe Fannie, Freddie, Lehman, AIG  .....     http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/business/index.ss... AIG takes $85B deal from FedSep 24 18:15
pombat42thanks RoySep 24 18:15
schestowitzYes.Sep 24 18:15
schestowitzzoobab: yes, hold on.Sep 24 18:16
schestowitzI'll upload it to BNSep 24 18:18
schestowitzzoobab: Oracle also changed its stance on patents, didn't it?Sep 24 18:18
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schestowitzIt's in OIN, so it has patents. It's just less vocal about it.Sep 24 18:19
schestowitzzoobab: done. Here's the video as Ogg. http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2...Sep 24 18:22
zoobabroy, your CSS could be betterSep 24 18:25
schestowitzNew Microsoft FUD: Sep 24 18:25
schestowitzhttp://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1606 "That’s the conclusion of a recent Microsoft-sponsored study from Vital Wave Consulting, which Microsoft is touting..."Sep 24 18:25
schestowitzMD fonts?Sep 24 18:27
schestowitzzoobab: MS fonts?Sep 24 18:27
zoobabjust the design could be betterSep 24 18:31
zoobabgoing for a beer with LQ activistsSep 24 18:31
zoobabto drink for the victory:Sep 24 18:31
schestowitzSlashdotSep 24 18:31
schestowitzzoobab: I'll redesign some day. but it's visual identity.Sep 24 18:32
zoobabhttp://www.laquadrature.net/wiki/Main_PageSep 24 18:32
zoobabgoing to give some SSP tshirts out thereSep 24 18:32
schestowitzAh...Sep 24 18:33
zoobabbyeSep 24 18:33
schestowitzhttp://www.laquadrature.net/wiki/Main_Page says nothing definite.Sep 24 18:34
schestowitzJust "A detailed analyse of the voting results will be available in a few days, but the global result is good :)"Sep 24 18:34
schestowitz"Thank you, India. We received your appeal against ISO" [...] 2 months go by [...] "It's going to the wastebasket"Sep 24 18:35
PetoKraus:DSep 24 18:50
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schestowitz<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/U_vzmURTh5s&hl=en&am p;fs=1"></param&g t;<param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></p aram><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/U_vzmURTh5s&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>Sep 24 19:01
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schestowitzOops.Sep 24 19:01
schestowitzhttp://www.novell.com/company/blogs/cmo/?p=108Sep 24 19:01
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*MinceR slaps [H]omer around a bit with http://sackheads.org/~bnaylor/spew/away_msgs.htmlSep 24 19:42
PetoKraus:)Sep 24 19:42
PetoKrausbrbSep 24 19:43
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schestowitzMinceR: I've just mailed [H]omer about it.Sep 24 19:50
MinceRthxSep 24 19:55
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schestowitzping zoobab: watch image -> http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=2927Sep 24 20:06
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schestowitzMore FUD. Article #1009 "be careful of open source": http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2008/09/24/232... (Be aware of legal risks with open source, says Eversheds)Sep 24 20:08
pombat42I don't see anything wrong with that article other than the alarmist title. He is simply saying to have someone document open source as well as closed source software within a companySep 24 20:16
schestowitzYes, I thought so too.Sep 24 20:16
schestowitzI looked quickly through the text.Sep 24 20:16
schestowitzThere's some alarmist style in the article too (Cisco for example).Sep 24 20:16
pombat42I'm not sure if the Cisco blurb is accurate or not though.Sep 24 20:17
AVRS2I think I've seen that article a while ago.Sep 24 20:17
schestowitzI can't help wondering when those repetitive article will stop.Sep 24 20:17
AVRS2Or some article quoting exactly the same speech.Sep 24 20:17
pombat42How much code could possibly be in a Linksys level router?Sep 24 20:17
schestowitzIt's like publishing 3 articles a week to say that lock-in is bad.Sep 24 20:17
schestowitzpombat42: about 2 weeks ago I saw 4 or 5 such articles in a SINGLE DAY.Sep 24 20:18
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schestowitzArguably, each such article discourages adoption or puts sourceforge et al on another blacklist in another company.Sep 24 20:19
pombat42o i c now. What you are saying is that while the article(s) may have some reasonable points the posting and reposting of them with alarmist headlines is amounting to FUD.Sep 24 20:19
schestowitzpombat42: yes, something like that. We don't see articles about OOXML abuses anymore, do we? They could go on with these alarms forever.Sep 24 20:20
pombat42Schestowitz: I agree.Sep 24 20:20
schestowitzIt's like the 5-year old in the back seat: "are we THERE yet?"Sep 24 20:20
schestowitz"Open source has a licence... and it's good to read the licence." No baloney, Sherlock.Sep 24 20:21
pombat42gotta run..byeSep 24 20:22
*pombat42 (n=pombat42@ool-182dda9f.dyn.optonline.net) has left #boycottnovell ("Leaving")Sep 24 20:22
schestowitzInfoWeek gives exposure to that 'study' now: http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/... (A Roadmap To Destroy Open Source?), http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main... (I couldn't let the "divide and conquer road map" for keeping open source at bay, as described by my colleague Randy George, pass without comment.) Sponsored by an Apple/Microsoft VC.Sep 24 20:24
schestowitzMicrosoft Endele goes on the attack again against Linux (his obsession): http://www.itbusinessedge.com/blogs/rob/?p=267Sep 24 20:29
schestowitzHe's ruining the reputation (if any) of ITBusinessEdgeSep 24 20:30
AVRS2I guess I skim those articles too fast, but what is that study about? Is it an advice to proprietary software companies, or is it only the news sites that make it look so?Sep 24 20:31
schestowitzIt's a 'study' funded by Usual Suspects^TM < http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/24... >, which I haven't read, but others have. Think of it as a Halloween Documents-esque think-tank.Sep 24 20:33
AVRS2ok…Sep 24 20:38
AVRS2Were that article by Endele written by someone else and at a good site, it would be not far from a good article.?Sep 24 20:48
schestowitzHe used press releases in the past to push his agenda.Sep 24 20:49
schestowitzI imagine that he /pays/ to publish stuff when it's rejected. I'm not sure though. There was the anti-Dellbuntu article I can recall. And don't forget Microsoft got caught using journalists to "plant" stories.Sep 24 20:50
AVRS2I didn't read the article closely enough. Nor the comment or the Wikipedia articles (believing the people were portait as "perfect" in *English Wikipedia* was pretty stupid)…Sep 24 20:57
AVRS2Is the IBM QA part in it true?Sep 24 20:57
AVRS2*portrayedSep 24 20:58
schestowitzI haven't read it properly. Just gazed at some words.Sep 24 20:58
schestowitzHe's using smart type of propaganda, trying to be seen as neutral by taking cheat shots. It has gone on for ages.Sep 24 20:59
AVRS2The good thing in the article [is only readable for those who want to find it, and] is the same as other articles which say "“Open it and they will come” only works for things that are good enough" or something.Sep 24 21:00
schestowitzAlong the way, they (Enderle and chums) will try to compare failures in Wkipedia (anyone can edit) to Linux (one patchmaster) or compare Cuba (communism) to LinuxSep 24 21:00
AVRS2Yeah, wtf, "even more easily done"Sep 24 21:01
AVRS2"I maintain that if something that is this public and can be read by anyone can be so easily subverted, then for code it is even more easily done." -- as if code can be _written_ by anyone tooSep 24 21:02
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AVRS2*, tooSep 24 21:02
schestowitzHe steals FUDSep 24 21:02
schestowitzHe can't even make up his own, but he doesn't exactly plagiarise.Sep 24 21:02
schestowitzI think it was Carr who used that stupid Wikipedia analogy. It was debunked over a year ago.Sep 24 21:03
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MinceRgnSep 24 22:33
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AVRS2gnSep 24 22:49
benJImanMinceR: btw http://wikis.sun.com/display/HotSpotI...Sep 24 22:56
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