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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: November 10th, 2008 - Part 1


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MinceRgnNov 10 00:09
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yuhongRemember the "revisionist" thing?Nov 10 00:12
yuhongI think that it isn't that it was revisionist, but it was that they are bad excuses.Nov 10 00:13
schestowitzWhat do you mean?Nov 10 00:13
schestowitzBy the way, are you in Seattle?Nov 10 00:14
yuhongYes, I am.Nov 10 00:14
schestowitzAny relation to some company there?Nov 10 00:14
schestowitzJust curious, that's all..Nov 10 00:14
yuhongNo, but you said that the DR/MS thing was revisionist.Nov 10 00:14
schestowitzWait.Nov 10 00:15
yuhongI think it was just a bad excuse.Nov 10 00:15
schestowitzAre you using Linux where you work? I'm curious.Nov 10 00:15
yuhongNo.Nov 10 00:15
schestowitzAny connection to another company in WA?Nov 10 00:15
yuhongNo.Nov 10 00:15
schestowitzOh, okay.Nov 10 00:15
yuhongAnyway, back to DR/MS.Nov 10 00:16
yuhong you said that the DR/MS thing was revisionist.Nov 10 00:16
yuhongI think it was just a bad excuse.Nov 10 00:16
schestowitzMaybe just a coincidence then (that you always defend Microsoft and also connect from Seattle, Washington)Nov 10 00:16
schestowitzNo, not back to DR-DOS.Nov 10 00:16
yuhongI don't always defend MS.Nov 10 00:16
schestowitzYou're trying to change the subject, why?Nov 10 00:16
schestowitzWhen do you not defend them?Nov 10 00:16
yuhongI admit that freedom is a real advantage of open source software.Nov 10 00:16
schestowitzHave you tried GNU/Linux?Nov 10 00:17
yuhongYes I did.Nov 10 00:17
schestowitzWhich distros do you like?Nov 10 00:17
yuhongI am not sure yet.Nov 10 00:17
schestowitzWhich did you try?Nov 10 00:17
yuhongUbuntu.Nov 10 00:17
yuhongIn a VM.Nov 10 00:18
schestowitzNice.Nov 10 00:18
yuhongBut I joined the channel in the first place because I was thinking of the DR/MS.Nov 10 00:18
yuhongI don't think it was revisionist, just that it was a bad excuse.Nov 10 00:19
schestowitzI just notice that you also defend Microsoft in Roughly drafted.Nov 10 00:19
yuhongI often do.Nov 10 00:19
schestowitzE.g. in "You do have some good points about the limitations of security in modern OSes, but the comparison is fundementally unfair. The iPhone’s OS should really be compared against things like Windows Mobile and Windows CE, NOT desktop or server versions of Windows." < >Nov 10 00:19
schestowitzWhy?Nov 10 00:19
schestowitzIt was not an excuse though.Nov 10 00:20
schestowitzIt was technical sabotage.Nov 10 00:20
schestowitzI notice that you also blog in Microsoft's space... 10 00:21
schestowitzOops.Nov 10 00:21
schestowitzThat's someone else.Nov 10 00:21
schestowitzWait, is this you? 10 00:23
schestowitzyuhong: are you there?Nov 10 00:23
schestowitzyuhong??Nov 10 00:23
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yuhongAnyway, I was referring to your claim about the MS/SCP/DR story being "revisionism".Nov 10 01:31
yuhongAnd I don't think it is revisionism, but do think it is a bad excuse for what MS did to DR in early 1990s.Nov 10 01:32
yuhongAnd the same can be said of Netscape.Nov 10 01:32
schestowitzMicrosoft used illegal tactics against Netscape.Nov 10 01:34
schestowitzThe DOJ and the United States of America says so.Nov 10 01:34
yuhongI know they did.Nov 10 01:35
schestowitzMicrosoft admitted (in court evidence) that it could not beat Netscape in regular means.Nov 10 01:35
yuhongI know.Nov 10 01:35
yuhongAnd I know they did the same thing against Digital Research.Nov 10 01:35
yuhongI was referring to when you said a story was "revisionism".Nov 10 01:36
yuhongIt isn't but it is a bad excuse.Nov 10 01:36
yuhongNotice that I am certainly not defending MS's illegal actions.Nov 10 01:37
yuhongOn Netscape, have you heard of JSSS?Nov 10 01:37
schestowitzYou are trying to justify the "Netscape killed itself" fairy tale.Nov 10 01:39
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dsmith_hello allNov 10 01:41
yuhongAnd even though is true, it is a bad excuse.Nov 10 01:42
yuhongfor what MS did to Netscape.Nov 10 01:43
yuhongWhich was my point.Nov 10 01:44
schestowitzhey, dsmith_ , long time, no talk.Nov 10 01:44
dsmith_yepNov 10 01:44
dsmith_I do read your blog thoughNov 10 01:44
schestowitzI have heaps of sellout laptopists to expose :-)Nov 10 01:44
dsmith_lolNov 10 01:44
schestowitzGot 3 or 4 so far ... 10 01:44
schestowitzAbout 4 more to go.Nov 10 01:44
schestowitz...saving the best for last.Nov 10 01:44
dsmith_goodNov 10 01:45
schestowitzMicrosoft should be ripped for this.Nov 10 01:45
schestowitzBut I think there are no proper laws against it... not in the US anyway.Nov 10 01:45
dsmith_its like a automobile manufacturer giving away a carNov 10 01:45
dsmith_just say good things about itNov 10 01:46
dsmith_hahaNov 10 01:46
dsmith_btw I look at "7"////b;ehNov 10 01:46
schestowitzDo they do that?Nov 10 01:46
dsmith_btw I look at "7"...blehNov 10 01:46
dsmith_h3ll noNov 10 01:46
schestowitzIn order to look at Vista7 you need to get the full 'experience.Nov 10 01:46
schestowitzYou need to get the $2000 -feature- schwag.Nov 10 01:47
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*dsmith_ passes on the so-called *full* exp.Nov 10 01:47
schestowitzBut dsmith_ Nov 10 01:47
dsmith_I dont like using CrackNov 10 01:47
schestowitzFor car makers to give away cars is one thing.Nov 10 01:47
schestowitzThe things is...Nov 10 01:47
schestowitzMicrosoft makes software, not PCs.Nov 10 01:48
schestowitzA better analogy would be a maker of car radios giving away cars as gifts...Nov 10 01:48
schestowitzWell, on 'indefinite loans", of course *win wink*Nov 10 01:48
dsmith_hmmmm, nawNov 10 01:49
dsmith_better analogy would be engines..Nov 10 01:50
dsmith_not radiosNov 10 01:50
dsmith_but anyway...Nov 10 01:50
dsmith_$2000, crimney.. I could buy 4-5 Linux notebooks and obtain better performance!Nov 10 01:51
schestowitzYesNov 10 01:54
schestowitzEngines are physical though.Nov 10 01:54
schestowitzSoftware does not cost anything for Microsoft to give.Nov 10 01:54
dsmith_true, I think they figured $5 Billion to develop VistaNov 10 01:58
dsmith_hard to believeNov 10 01:58
schestowitzHaha.Nov 10 02:04
schestowitzThey calculate what...?Nov 10 02:04
schestowitz5-6 years of development?Nov 10 02:04
schestowitz4-5 oh which were thrown to the wastebasket when operation Longhorn got the boot?Nov 10 02:04
schestowitzThat's like saying you've been gardening all day after taking 12 hours to nap on the bench and then working for 1 hour.Nov 10 02:06
schestowitzLinux Foundation caught up with the marketing hype and did some 'study' with big numbers. It's all about PERCEIVED VALUE.Nov 10 02:06
dsmith_perceived, operative wordNov 10 02:23
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schestowitzgnNov 10 04:58
EruaranhiNov 10 05:05
macabehelloNov 10 05:58
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ZiggyFish1Microsoft will want to do well with Windows 7Nov 10 09:06
ZiggyFish1even if the journalist are bribed, Microsoft can't bribe Users (can, they afford to?)Nov 10 09:07
ZiggyFish1anyway Windows 7 looks like Linux 2006.Nov 10 09:09
MinceRhayNov 10 09:32
tessierZiggyFish1: They won't bribe users. They will blackmail.Nov 10 09:36
ZiggyFish1lolNov 10 09:41
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schestowitzOh Gosh... ( Bailout Bill Provided Tech Workers With Tax Relief for Stock Options ) "The recent $700 billion rescue package to bolster the financial system also threw a lifeline to thousands of people who owed taxes on stock options dating to the technology-stock crash of 2000." Looting of public wealthNov 10 10:20
schestowitz"Technically, the workers could claim credits under the AMT for "overpaying" the tax. But the law generally limited the credit to $3,000 a year, meaning some workers would have to wait hundreds of years to recover their money. The bailout law allows workers who paid the AMT to reclaim the money in two years; those who hadn't paid won't have to pay the tax."Nov 10 10:21
schestowitzStealing from the public for 'good' use... to feed some more fat cats. Nov 10 10:22
tessierGlad I didn't have to pay AMT on my optionsNov 10 10:28
schestowitzAn awful lot of spin (suddenly netbooks are /bad/ for GNU/Linux?): In another trollish article, some guy call Linux a religion (like Gods and stuff). An insult for attention?Nov 10 10:45
MinceRhe's in denialNov 10 10:46
MinceRmicrosoft is a religionNov 10 10:46
MinceRcrApple is a religionNov 10 10:46
MinceRFLOSS is technologyNov 10 10:46
schestowitzYes.Nov 10 10:47
schestowitzWhich is why I didn't put the URL here. They use insults to characterise it as something dangerous. I can accept "Linux -- and especially GNU -- has a partly political agenda", but religion??? Watch this document from Microsoft (on "Jihad"): 10 10:49
schestowitz "The Republicans made a big effort to steal the election by stopping 6 million people from voting. They may have succeeded in stealing the Georgia senate election."Nov 10 10:50
schestowitz"Oh!! Those 'annoying' Linux users. They don't accept corruption and they don't ignore it either."Nov 10 10:51
schestowitz ( HP recalls tens of thousands of notebook batteries )Nov 10 10:52
schestowitz "My concession is that I have been too cynical before. I had given up on my country. I had seen too many former friends in the past eight years turn to enemies because they suddenly came out Red (as in Red State) and I would not be a party to their terror-mongering."Nov 10 11:00
schestowitz"Nov 10 11:00
schestowitzMind you, this is only the beginning. Do you have any idea how much mopping up we have to do? The Patriot Act, the Iraq War, the housing market crash, the recession, the erosion of personal liberties, the scary-big-number deficit. All of that has to be undone, just to climb back up to where we were eight years ago."Nov 10 11:00
schestowitzFinland's flawed e-voting scheme - blame the voters? < >. I know a company that blames users and third-party developers for problems too.Nov 10 11:09
zoobabevoting = civil warNov 10 11:28
zoobabObama seemed to have voted on electronic machines according to some pics I saw in a newspaperNov 10 11:28
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schestowitzNicely laid out.. 10 12:12
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seller_liarI do not like this projectNov 10 12:28
seller_liarwww.ikvm.netNov 10 12:28
seller_liarwe need to do the reverse!Nov 10 12:28
schestowitz"IKVM.NET is an implementation of Java for Mono and the Microsoft .NET Framework. It includes the following components:"Nov 10 12:30
seller_liarand give good codenames , example "pay me four patentz"Nov 10 12:30
seller_liarsharp-javaNov 10 12:30
schestowitzHow long was it out for?Nov 10 12:30
seller_liara lot of timeNov 10 12:30
seller_liara project which does the reverse is a good way to show the m$-novell problemsNov 10 12:31
seller_liarimbue .net in javaNov 10 12:31
seller_liarsharp-javaNov 10 12:31
seller_liarbut I'm not a programmerNov 10 12:31
schestowitzthe site is masked buts seems to be running on Windows .. 10 12:32
seller_liarI dont like ikvm!Nov 10 12:32
schestowitzseller_liar: see MiansoftNov 10 12:32
seller_liarIkvm enslaves java in .netNov 10 12:32
schestowitzMainsoftNov 10 12:32
seller_liarbut it only works on java eeNov 10 12:34
seller_liarnot in java seNov 10 12:34
schestowitzI'm always suspicious of FOSSy sites that run Windows, such as IKVM.NETNov 10 12:34
seller_liarvery strangeNov 10 12:34
seller_liarthe site favicon resemble the apache projectNov 10 12:34
seller_liarthis mainsoft software is free ?Nov 10 12:35
schestowitzHow old is this project?Nov 10 12:35
schestowitzseller_liar: no it's not free, AFAIKNov 10 12:35
seller_liarI do not knowNov 10 12:35
seller_liardamn, it's sadNov 10 12:35
schestowitz*/ 10 12:36
schestowitz2003: 10 12:36
schestowitz2004: 10 12:36
seller_liarfive years and java does not have a reverse implementationNov 10 12:36
schestowitzRoughly the same since 2005: 10 12:37
schestowitzIt doesn't seem like a big threat. The core which is the Microsoft-controlled Novell is a bigger issue.Nov 10 12:37
seller_liarbut java can explore .net .Enslave net in bytecodeNov 10 12:38
seller_liarfor better java ,not better .netNov 10 12:39
seller_liarI'm bit worried because people are uing the .net instead of javaNov 10 12:40
seller_liarThese people is very stupid because , they does not worry about ethical problemasNov 10 12:41
schestowitzThey don't know.Nov 10 12:41
schestowitzAlso, Microsoft is whitewashing the media with luring-in messages.Nov 10 12:42
schestowitz"Microsoft is not against open source"Nov 10 12:42
schestowitz"Microsoft stresses open source involvement" etc.Nov 10 12:42
seller_liarschestowitz: These people does not know nothing about ethical problemsNov 10 12:42
schestowitzExpect lots more of this in the week to come (well, this week) because of ApacheCon.Nov 10 12:42
seller_liarThese people only worry about money, better and better cars and etcNov 10 12:43
schestowitzMicrosoft pressure journos for such publicity, as I've shown a lot recently (also last night)Nov 10 12:43
schestowitzYesNov 10 12:43
schestowitzIt's to do with education.Nov 10 12:43
schestowitzMoney comes before everything.Nov 10 12:43
schestowitzThey also cling onto people with money and try to make friends with them, hoping for something in return.Nov 10 12:43
seller_liarYes ,I knowNov 10 12:44
schestowitzTHat's why I like RMS's attitude. He doesn't befriend the white-collar money-obsessed people.Nov 10 12:44
schestowitzYou can see lots of the opposite in the likes of Forbes and Fortune.Nov 10 12:44
seller_liarconquering the personal emotions is the most powerful weaponNov 10 12:44
schestowitzFitzpatrick and Gates are one example... having their 'flirts' in the press.Nov 10 12:44
schestowitzIn the same way, Matt Asay (Dana balankenhorn calls him "big money Matt") is like a infatuated school girl around Tim O'Reilly.Nov 10 12:45
schestowitzThey all dance around the people with money and/or influence , jumping for dollars. You see lots of the same with the likes of Jimmy Wales, Nick Carr...Nov 10 12:46
seller_liarJimmy ? of wikipedia?Nov 10 12:46
schestowitzWatch Andy Updegrove's blog where he no longer has the picture of him in a t-shirt.Nov 10 12:47
schestowitzHe replaced it with a tight suit picture where he brags having Vint Cerf next to him and a cRapple Mac on his lap.Nov 10 12:47
seller_liarUbuntu contains banshee ?Nov 10 12:47
schestowitzNo yet, I think.Nov 10 12:47
seller_liarThis is very goodNov 10 12:48
schestowitzI thinkg SUSE has it preinstalled, but I'm not sure.Nov 10 12:48
schestowitz /s/no/not/ thinkg/thinNov 10 12:48
seller_liarBecause some comments days ago , some user propose to put banshee in uubuntuNov 10 12:48
schestowitzOf course.Nov 10 12:48
seller_liarBeagle now uses kyoto , the qt sharpNov 10 12:48
schestowitzEither they don't care about freedom or they are the Mono boosters we find in Ubuntu Forums.Nov 10 12:49
seller_liarof course ,qt sharp is optionalNov 10 12:49
seller_liarYes ,I knowNov 10 12:49
schestowitzAnd Mono ain't freedom. It's the technology of freedom hate #1, next to Apple.Nov 10 12:49
seller_liarStupid crApple , How people like this company? These people is very stupidNov 10 12:51
seller_liarOne interesting fact is m$ and apple does not cite the free opensource deficiencesNov 10 12:53
seller_liarBut Apple cites a lot of deficiences of microstupidNov 10 12:53
schestowitzNever on a cultural level. The ethical questions matter to neither.Nov 10 12:54
seller_liarfor exampleNov 10 12:54
seller_liarApple criticises windowz vixta a lotNov 10 12:54
seller_liartechnically speakingNov 10 12:54
seller_liarBut m$ and apple does not cite the technical (not ethical) deficiences in freeopensource softwareNov 10 12:55
seller_liar"He does not give a tip for enemy"Nov 10 12:56
seller_liarBecause the enemy is more strongNov 10 12:56
seller_liarAnd criticism is a tip for fixing the problemsNov 10 12:57
schestowitzThey thrive in 'mainstream' old mediaNov 10 12:57
schestowitzAs that medium dies out, things will get harder for themNov 10 12:57
schestowitzThen it's bloggers that have impact and they BRIBE them.Nov 10 12:57
schestowitzI think I made a case about it yesterday. :-)Nov 10 12:58
seller_liarYes, I see a lot of bloggers cited hereNov 10 12:58
schestowitzHy dif these bloggers not review Ubuntu 8.10?Nov 10 12:58
seller_liarBut ,is a lot of bloggers!Nov 10 12:58
schestowitzNo free laptop?Nov 10 12:58
schestowitzNo Sugar Daddy to suck up to?Nov 10 12:58
schestowitzWhy did IDG/IDC not have such raving reviews from bloggers 'bribed by Canonical'?Nov 10 12:59
seller_liarI know roy ,I knowNov 10 12:59
seller_liarI'm not visiting idg and other sites nowNov 10 12:59
schestowitzIt doesn't matter if lots of bloggers exist, seller_liar. Microsoft ONLY MAKES VISTA 7 AVAILABLE to ones whom it likes. You and me have no access to it. There's no transparency, so they control public image.Nov 10 13:00
seller_liarI'm using adblock sometimesNov 10 13:00
seller_liar"i do not like 7"Nov 10 13:00
seller_liar"If you like 7 ,you gain a copy!"Nov 10 13:00
seller_liar"I like 7 now"Nov 10 13:01
seller_liar"Hey people ,I like 7"Nov 10 13:01
schestowitzYesNov 10 13:01
schestowitzBut there's another point.Nov 10 13:01
schestowitzBy giving them gifts they send the message "say good things about us and we'll give you more"Nov 10 13:02
seller_liartell meNov 10 13:02
schestowitzIt's like animals.Nov 10 13:02
schestowitzYou 'bribe' them with treats.Nov 10 13:02
seller_liarYes, that ' s itNov 10 13:02
schestowitzMary Jo Foley mailed me about it.Nov 10 13:02
schestowitzShe calls this "reward and punishment", IIRCNov 10 13:02
seller_liarCuriosity to gain a crippled copy ,makes the user change the opinions about 7 sinsNov 10 13:02
schestowitzIf she criticises Microsoft they deny her access to Microsoft people.Nov 10 13:03
schestowitzThe likes of Ina Friendshill become PR agents for them because they get money (access to seniors and all) that way.Nov 10 13:03
schestowitzWhich is precisely why the "religion" analogy applies well to Microsoft, not Free software.Nov 10 13:03
seller_liarGives the god blessing for everyone see ,and you gain god giftsNov 10 13:04
MinceRsomeone should write an article on this, titled "Microsoft, The Cult" or something ;)Nov 10 13:05
seller_liarYes, you posted a lot of links,but m$ bribes a lot of bloggersNov 10 13:05
seller_liaris very hard to convince people to make a article like thisNov 10 13:05
schestowitzMinceR: the article already exists.Nov 10 13:06
schestowitzCOmposed internally in fact. This is your 'bible' Read it, study it.Nov 10 13:06
MinceR:)Nov 10 13:07
schestowitz 10 13:07
schestowitz"Many participants and speakers referenced to the OOXML standardisation process, in particular were intrigued by the French AFNOR developments. Generally speakers feel concerned about OOXML to become a standard in governmental procurement. In private a government delegate compared Microsoft’s public affairs methods with the scientology cult."Nov 10 13:07
schestowitzMS: 5: ""**Jihad** A Jihad is a road trip. in which an evangelist visits a large number of ISVs one-on-one to convince them to take some specific action. The classic Jihad is one focused on getting Tier A ISVs to commit to supporting a given technology by signing the technology’s Letter of Agreement (LOA - see above)."Nov 10 13:08
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seler_liarWhy microshit uses cab?Nov 10 13:18
seler_liarI'm trying to use some chm files ,but I have to extract and readNov 10 13:19
MinceRbecause of NIH syndromeNov 10 13:19
seler_liarNIH?Nov 10 13:21
seler_liarabout thisNov 10 13:21
seler_liarremember?Nov 10 13:22
seler_liar 10 13:22
seler_liarthe gif case of patentsNov 10 13:22
MinceRNot Invented HereNov 10 13:22
schestowitzGIF ought to have been banned from WWW.Nov 10 13:24
schestowitzThey always sought patents-free ingredients.Nov 10 13:24
schestowitzBut PNG wasn't out yet...Nov 10 13:24
seler_liarm$ does not like pngNov 10 13:25
seler_liarand svg tooNov 10 13:25
seler_liarvrml is the eee version of svgNov 10 13:25
schestowitzThere should a policy along the lines of "you patent technology x, then x will be shunned".Nov 10 13:25
schestowitzseler_liar: I'll write about SVG this afternoonNov 10 13:25
schestowitz 10 13:25
schestowitz"Point three: Silverlight, as noted in its Wikipedia page, is also intended as an SVG-killer. This isn't just bad news; it's a tragedy. All modern web browsers except Microsoft Internet Explorer support and render SVG markup directly. If SVG was supported cross-platform, you'd see a new, beautiful web begin to form, where AJAX combines with SVG to create a Flash replacement. You'd see as much of a leap in web design with SVG as we Nov 10 13:25
schestowitzsaw with AJAX. Score: 2 bad, 1 good."Nov 10 13:25
schestowitzIOW, Microsoft saw a powerful standard and it had to replace it with a proprietary one.Nov 10 13:26
schestowitzIt also shoved VML down ISO's throat with OOXML. Part of the Great Crime of 2006-2008.Nov 10 13:26
seler_liarYes,the very old strategies of microsoftNov 10 13:29
seler_liarBecause this ,I do not like permissive licencesNov 10 13:29
seler_liar 10 13:31
seler_liarbig text about micro$oftNov 10 13:32
schestowitzAh..Nov 10 13:32
schestowitzThe Second Coming, eh? Stories were written about how much money Microsoft spent manipulating the media at the time.Nov 10 13:33
seler_liarbut this text is a bit oldNov 10 13:33
schestowitzAnd in 1998 Microsoft stopped being profitable I hear.Nov 10 13:33
schestowitzLost $18bn that year, according to The Economist. Gates resigned from his postNov 10 13:33
seler_liarthis is goodNov 10 13:34
seler_liarVole must die!Nov 10 13:34
seler_liarI live in hopeNov 10 13:37
seler_liarabout stupid m$ cab formatsNov 10 13:37
seler_liar 10 13:37
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twitterCircuit City is bankrupt, 10 14:54
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schestowitzThey used Linux in the tills.Nov 10 14:58
schestowitz 10 14:59
schestowitzIf only they were smart enough to VEND it.Nov 10 14:59
kentmaCircuit city didn't have any linux machines in the shops I looked at.Nov 10 14:59
kentmaThey didn't even stock the N770/800/810 web tablets...Nov 10 15:00
kentmalet alone an Asus EeeNov 10 15:00
twitterThey were part of the M$ Vendor chain, like CompUSANov 10 15:00
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kentmaah, I didn't realise that.  They appeared to have acquired some of the old Tandy store sites - did MS buy-up Tandy?Nov 10 15:01
kentmaSorry, it was Radio Shack in the US.Nov 10 15:01
kentmaand Canada.Nov 10 15:01
schestowitzIs Dixons evolving yet? They complained about VIsta.Nov 10 15:07
schestowitzThey got ChannelStuffed(C) by defective computers saddled by the VistaBug.Nov 10 15:07
kentmaWell, they've dumped the Dixons high-street name altogether nowNov 10 15:07
schestowitz*withNov 10 15:07
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twitter" Oddly enough, beyond service offerings like Circuit City's Firedog and Best Buy's GeekSquad, DVDs are one of the last profit margin frontiers for retailers. But even that party can't last forever." M$ friendly fool, August 2007 10 15:33
_dougHarry Tuttle, Brazil .. freelance repairman and assassin  .. :)Nov 10 15:34
twitterRoughly Drafted summed up the retail situation well, 10 15:35
harrytuttle_doug :-)Nov 10 15:36
twitterM$'s monopoly made hardware a "commodity"Nov 10 15:36
_dougHey Harry ...Nov 10 15:36
twitterTuttle, "We're all in this together"Nov 10 15:36
harrytuttleyeah, thats the catch-phrase of my blog .. were all in IT together :-)Nov 10 15:36
twitterButtle's body bag and bill were for him and his family alone.Nov 10 15:37
twitterHelpless and divided, we are all Buttle.Nov 10 15:38
_dougdon't forget your 27B/6 ..Nov 10 15:38
harrytuttlejust here to mention that Roy's doing a great job counting the bribesNov 10 15:38
_dougbribes, don't you meant consultancy feesNov 10 15:39
_doug... Bloody paperworkNov 10 15:40
twitterCompUSA, Circuit City and other retail failures are showing that the Windows monopoly only worked well for M$.  The others colluded but drowned in a sea of shallow margins.  With them gone and unable to sabotage things like EEE PC, hardware makers will increasingly turn to free software to differentiate themselves.Nov 10 15:41
_douglater ..Nov 10 15:44
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schestowitzI agree on the point of commodity. Microsoft: the Lada of computers. Just make sure your wheels stay on when you drive...Nov 10 15:53
MinceRladas aren't _that_ badNov 10 15:54
twitterAIG, "burns through cash at a record rate"  translation, stuffing tax money in pocket as fast as they can. 10 15:59
schestowitzMinceR: it was an analogy. :-)Nov 10 16:00
schestowitzIs there some island in this world that remains isolated from the Global Corruption?Nov 10 16:00
schestowitzIceland got whacked, despite being seemingly isolated.Nov 10 16:01
MinceRit probably wasn't all that isolatedNov 10 16:01
MinceRi need to buy an island and start a new kind of societyNov 10 16:01
schestowitzharrytuttle: watch them trying to slink away... 10 16:05
schestowitzMinceR: it's too hard without imports, so you develop global dependency sooner or later.Nov 10 16:05
MinceRthat's why all menial labor must be automatizedNov 10 16:06
schestowitz[unless you live in caves without medicine or machinery]Nov 10 16:06
MinceRand produce everythingNov 10 16:06
schestowitzMaybe you need to travel to Peru or Mongolia or something for a while. RMS seems fond of such places where culture trumps money to an extent..Nov 10 16:06
MinceRthough some imports don't necessarily mean dependencyNov 10 16:06
MinceRas long as you can get resources from many sourcesNov 10 16:07
schestowitzMinceR: you need to export in exchange for the import.Nov 10 16:07
twitterCircuit City was looted last year.  Bonuses to executives, pink slips for worker bees. 10 16:07
schestowitzThat's what happened in Africa ATM, but they mostly get exploited (low wages)Nov 10 16:07
schestowitzAnd Chairman Gates helps the murder of Nigerian children: 10 16:08
twitterInteresting, Circuit City was migrating to Suse in 2004 10 16:09
schestowitztwitter: wait until next year. It gets worse, according to predictions. The key now is cherishment (is that a word?) of culture and society, not the Mighty Green Buck.Nov 10 16:09
twitterthat sounds better, not worse.Nov 10 16:09
schestowitztwitter: they used it, not sold it. Anyway, less revenue for NOVL now. :-)Nov 10 16:09
twitterBallmer SMASH Novell, SMASH Circuit CityNov 10 16:10
twitterthe problem is that the looters got all the money and the rest of us get to cherish what's leftNov 10 16:10
twitterM$'s actions are clearly criminal and responsible for the retail collapse.  These chains have been losing money for years, it's not just the credit crunch.Nov 10 16:12
schestowitztwitter: well, the divide (economical) expands in western society.Nov 10 16:15
schestowitzI wonder what this means to distribution of wealth between the east and west, north and south.Nov 10 16:15
schestowitzOne sure thing is that there is plenty of opportunities to 'recruit' people to join the cause of Freedom now. People want change when they are unhappy or unemployed (therefore finding time to ask questions and pursue solutions). The monopolists know this and that's why they put suppressive laws in place... policing.Nov 10 16:17
twitterGot a link to Jim Alchin's "we have to slaughter Novell before they get to strong" statement?Nov 10 16:22
schestowitzYesNov 10 16:25
schestowitz 10 16:26
schestowitz"We must slow down Novell. The strongest action that we could take would  be to include networking with Windows for essentially a zero uplift in  price (maybe minor COGS uplift). As you said Bill, it has to be dramatic."Nov 10 16:26
*_doug (n=configna@unaffiliated/confignak) has joined #boycottnovellNov 10 16:27
_doug 10 16:27
twitterthanksNov 10 16:27
twitterI thought there was a more recent quote, about 2002.Nov 10 16:28
schestowitz_doug: it's useless.Nov 10 16:29
schestowitzAlex is IE/MSNov 10 16:29
schestowitzIn BN, only about 12% use IENov 10 16:29
schestowitzNetcraft ranks us 3700th. Groklaw is 1200th, for comparison.Nov 10 16:29
_dougThe OOXML Spec :) 10 16:31
_dougWhat's this about ?Nov 10 16:34
_doug 10 16:34
_doug'Who would have imagined, I asked the audience at NXT, a future in which Microsoft would publish - on a Microsoft web property no less - articles such as "Installing Apache on Windows"'Nov 10 16:38
schestowitzLooks like someone sogrady says "boycott_novell" ;-)Nov 10 16:38
_doug 10 16:38
_dougsounds totally unbiased to me :)Nov 10 16:38
schestowitz:-)Nov 10 16:38
schestowitzWell, they need business.Nov 10 16:38
schestowitzit's a tough economy, you know?Nov 10 16:38
schestowitzForget about who you do business with: 10 16:39
_doug"No one questions the need to acquire software patents, to be sure. Whether you love the current system or hate it as I do, it will punish vendors that do not acquire software patents at least for defensive purposes"Nov 10 16:40
_dougwho uses the phrase defensive patents ?Nov 10 16:40
schestowitzHaha. Microsoft still threatens to say FLOSS. IBM did business with the Germans, so..Nov 10 16:40
schestowitz_doug: monopolists use this word.Nov 10 16:40
schestowitz"defensive" That's how they market it.Nov 10 16:41
_dougRegarding paid-for consulatacies, if you repeatidly trash your customers in public, you end up not having any ..Nov 10 16:41
schestowitzThey perceive it a guarantee though. When they go dim like Avistar or SCO, then they start suing.Nov 10 16:42
schestowitz"Defensive guns". Guns defend people.Nov 10 16:42
_doug"Redmonk: Microsoft most important company in RSS"Nov 10 16:42
_doug 10 16:42
schestowitzBear in mind that Microsoft whine about being sued by trolls. Well, there is _NO SUCH THING_ as defensive patents against trolls. They haven't products.Nov 10 16:43
schestowitz   "The requested URL /jgovernor/archives.html/001178.html was not found on this server." "The A-list may prefer pure web-based solutions but the Vista wave will take feeds into the mainstream…."Nov 10 16:46
schestowitzRedmond (2006): "Vista wave will take feeds into the mainstream…."Nov 10 16:46
schestowitz*LOL*Nov 10 16:46
schestowitzWhat is Vista? I hear some things about a Vista 7 thingie.Nov 10 16:46
schestowitzRedmon[d|k]Nov 10 16:46
_dougThe A-list may prefer pure web-based solutions but the Vista wave will take feeds into the mainstream.... allowing Metcalfe's Law to kick in.Nov 10 16:47
_dougRemember when Microsoft adopted TCP/IP? HTML? XML?Nov 10 16:47
_dougEmbrace, extend, and explode the market.Nov 10 16:47
_dougIf feeds are to move into the mainstream its going to need offerings packaged for both mainstream consumer and enterprise users. I just can't see anyone else out there set up to provide such a package.Nov 10 16:47
_dougIBM? Apparently doesn't want to build a Microsoft client alternative, not one that will touch consumers anyway. Maybe if IBM does something like this it will be in the game.Nov 10 16:48
_dougI have a post in mind about why Vista is going to be major launch, like Win 95, which not even the Microsoft Vista team seems to believe. But its not the OS that will sell the OS, its the integrated handling of standard specifications that will sell the OSNov 10 16:48
_doug_doug says: predicting the future is always difficult .. :)Nov 10 16:49
_dougSo this post is really just a flameholder. Or maybe a prediction for early 07Nov 10 16:49
_dougLonghorn was technology in search of a set of use cases. Vista on the other hand, will be technology packaged to fulfil a set of use cases, loosely defined as Web 2.0. That's a big difference.Nov 10 16:49
_dougDisclaimer: IBM, Microsoft and Sun are clients. Google and Apple are not.Nov 10 16:50
_dougposted at January 6, 2006Nov 10 16:52
_doug 10 16:52
_dougI predict: small embedded Internet aware devices will be huge, the real money will be made providing online services and content ..Nov 10 16:54
_dougwhoever owns the Intertubes will have a license to make money ..Nov 10 16:54
schestowitz_doug: Microsoft has patents on RSSNov 10 16:58
schestowitzThere was an outrage at the time, EEE being cited as a reason as well.Nov 10 16:58
schestowitzEEE is not a side effect; it's a strategy (watch the Halloween Document). They are, in principle, against standard protocols that work across platforms.Nov 10 16:58

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