| _doug | re; iTWire: keywords: coterie, hobbyists, primitive, techno-zealots, tinority, zealots | Nov 17 20:00 |
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| _doug | "great white hope of the desktop Linux tinority, Ubuntu" | Nov 17 20:01 |
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| _doug | my $insert_random_hardware doesn't work on Linux .. :) | Nov 17 20:01 |
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| schestowitz | Why is Google even feeding this MS-generated FUD? http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/goog... | Nov 17 20:01 |
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| schestowitz | Former Microsoft temployees/employees!! http://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/16/... | Nov 17 20:01 |
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| schestowitz | UK identities sold for €£80 online < http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7732569.stm >. But we need more DBs | Nov 17 20:04 |
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| _doug | itWire: 'I fully expect to get the usual "How much did Microsoft pay you to write this drivel?" in the comments section' | Nov 17 20:07 |
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| _doug | Well no Stan, we are totally jaded by this disengenious trolling. Are you deliberatly trying to provoke people. I can't recall reading ITWire before, but I'm not impressed so far .. | Nov 17 20:08 |
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| schestowitz | Good news: Norway for OOo.. http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art... ( Norway encourages use of open source software ) | Nov 17 20:12 |
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| schestowitz | _doug: editors like proving. I wrote about my experiences with editors in http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/31/tr... | Nov 17 20:13 |
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| schestowitz | Another thing is academic kickbacks... Microsoft paying for recommendation by voice/publicity.. (not that it applies to Stan): http://boycottnovell.com/2008/03/17/a... | Nov 17 20:15 |
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| _doug | itWire: "I get annoyed with some website developers who insist on optimising websites for their clients to run on Internet Explorer" | Nov 17 20:16 |
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| _doug | No, msFrontPage is designed to make pages that only render correctly with Iexplorer .. the website developers don't have a say in the matter .. :) | Nov 17 20:17 |
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| _doug | A bit like your site not working in FF .. | Nov 17 20:17 |
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| schestowitz | Standards are not part of the law. So Microsoft can violate them. | Nov 17 20:18 |
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| _doug | http://www.itwire.com/ 104 Errors, 11 warning(s) http://validator.w3.org/ | Nov 17 20:19 |
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| _doug | http://www.w3.org/ This document was successfully checked as XHTML 1.0 Strict! | Nov 17 20:19 |
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| _doug | Someone with 25 years IT experience doesn't know why FF won't render some sites correctly or why his 3G card won't work ? | Nov 17 20:20 |
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| _doug | Never mind his grandmother :) | Nov 17 20:21 |
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| _doug | I try very hard to move to the ad hominem .. but that 'drivle' is designed to provoke .. isn't it ? | Nov 17 20:22 |
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| schestowitz | Yes | Nov 17 20:22 |
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| schestowitz | I checked some *nix sites to see if they feed it. | Nov 17 20:23 |
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| schestowitz | If they do, I'll drop a word. They just ask for more of the same that way. | Nov 17 20:23 |
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| _doug | "If you want to beat Microsoft, you can forget about the desktop game, instead invent another another game. Just ask Google" | Nov 17 20:25 |
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| schestowitz | Where from? | Nov 17 20:26 |
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| schestowitz | Stan? | Nov 17 20:26 |
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| _doug | I totally agree, sell a total stack something like a Telecom company + hardware maker + a MultiMedia desktop + content provider.. | Nov 17 20:27 |
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| _doug | http://www.itwire.com/content... | Nov 17 20:27 |
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| _doug | "Of course you could track down a Linux specialist - but you'll probably find that they charge a lot more than your corner computer store" | Nov 17 20:27 |
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| _doug | ???? .. how difficult is it to install an average desktop .. ? | Nov 17 20:28 |
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| schestowitz | Tee hee. "Linux specialist" | Nov 17 20:28 |
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| _doug | What 'support' do you get when your Windows breaks, phone a call center who telsl you to reinstall .. | Nov 17 20:28 |
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| _doug | "The common refrain "I've got my grandmother using it with no problems" neglects to mention that the grandmother has her own personal Linux zealot supporting her system" | Nov 17 20:29 |
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| schestowitz | I've seen videos of 13 year olds installing Linux smoothly. | Nov 17 20:30 |
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| schestowitz | They are no geeks, they just follow instructions. | Nov 17 20:30 |
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| schestowitz | "Zealot"? | Nov 17 20:30 |
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| _doug | This is just so much insulting bullshit .. I am very disappointed in ITWire .. | Nov 17 20:30 |
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| schestowitz | I guess Stan doesn't talk about those "Windows zealots" that come and clean up people's 'computer' (viruses, Registry, etc.) | Nov 17 20:31 |
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| schestowitz | Should I write something about it? | Nov 17 20:31 |
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| schestowitz | I'm tempted. | Nov 17 20:31 |
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| schestowitz | I didn't read the 'article'... but they had many like these recently. | Nov 17 20:32 |
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| schestowitz | They accused Linux of being a religion a week ago... it's like part of a series of smears. | Nov 17 20:32 |
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| schestowitz | Red Hat amends share buyback program ( http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2... ) | Nov 17 20:34 |
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| _doug | should you write aboit it, well yea, give it a mention as a sample of trolling .. | Nov 17 20:35 |
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| _doug | well, on the other hand, don't bother, it'll only bring hits to the site, which it's designed to do .. | Nov 17 20:36 |
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| schestowitz | Hahah! | Nov 17 20:37 |
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| schestowitz | "Ubuntu offers a file browser, called Computer, which is similar to My Computer and Computer of Windows XP and Vista. " http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osr... | Nov 17 20:37 |
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| schestowitz | Windows has a file manager called "my computer"? | Nov 17 20:37 |
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| schestowitz | And Lunix has "computer" file browser. | Nov 17 20:37 |
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| _doug | Remind me again what buybacks are for ? | Nov 17 20:37 |
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| schestowitz | And that's the 'pres' | Nov 17 20:37 |
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| trmanco | Lunix | Nov 17 20:38 |
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| trmanco | lol | Nov 17 20:38 |
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| schestowitz | To elevate one's stock usually. | Nov 17 20:38 |
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| schestowitz | _doug: yeah, I'll pass. If they troll again (they do it very blatantly), I'll jump at it, but I need to give supportive sample, i.e. feeding). | Nov 17 20:39 |
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| _doug | "Shortcuts even have a different name; they're called Links in Ubuntu" | Nov 17 20:39 |
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| schestowitz | "Eric Geier is an author of many computing and networking books, including Home Networking All-in-One Desk Reference For Dummies (Wiley 2008) and 100 Things You Need to Know about Microsoft€® Windows Vista (Que 2007)." | Nov 17 20:40 |
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| schestowitz | I can see where he's coming from and to be fair the point of the article is to assimilate the two operating system, so simplification might be OK. | Nov 17 20:40 |
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| _doug | I know .. | Nov 17 20:41 |
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| schestowitz | Horowitz at CNET did something recently a while ago introducing people to "The Linux operating system" showing just Ubuntu. I guess it's repellent when jargon and attributions get removed. | Nov 17 20:41 |
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| _doug | Fire it up and let them click .. | Nov 17 20:42 |
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| schestowitz | RMS commended the protest in Kerala (the Boycott Novell one) | Nov 17 20:43 |
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| _doug | Remind us, who organized the event, and who attended ? | Nov 17 20:45 |
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| schestowitz | I'm not sure. | Nov 17 20:46 |
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| schestowitz | I had nothing to do with it to be honest | Nov 17 20:46 |
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| schestowitz | I think Anivar deserves much of the credit. | Nov 17 20:46 |
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| schestowitz | BN gets like 800,000 hits today | Nov 17 20:47 |
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| _doug | In that slashdot article mentioning it, you were anonymously trashed .. again .. | Nov 17 20:48 |
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| schestowitz | BTW, I need alerts about BillJackSoft. If he is watched, then he will say the truth. | Nov 17 20:48 |
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| schestowitz | _doug: they already do this. I think it's one of the COLA Munchkins. | Nov 17 20:49 |
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| _doug | http://yro.slashdot.org/y... | Nov 17 20:49 |
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| _doug | fo'get about it :) | Nov 17 20:49 |
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| schestowitz | Don't link to the libel | Nov 17 20:49 |
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| _doug | nope .. | Nov 17 20:50 |
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| schestowitz | It's almost like a cut and paste accumulative copy of previous smears that put forth false allegations for uncritical readers to believe. | Nov 17 20:50 |
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| _doug | yep, someone is puttign in a lot of overtime, else his tinFoil hat is leaking microwaves :) | Nov 17 20:51 |
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| _doug | gtg .. | Nov 17 20:51 |
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| *kapipi has quit (Remote closed the connection) | Nov 17 20:52 |
| schestowitz | ComputerWorld and InfoWorld reference (and ZDNet, Slashdot..) BN: http://weblog.infoworld.com/openresource/... and http://blogs.computerworld.com/anoth... | Nov 17 21:12 |
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| schestowitz | New stream of negative F/OSS article from InfoWeek go into an issue. Typical "it's expensive", it's hard to use" chorus... | Nov 17 21:30 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.informationweek.com/news/infra... [ There's More To Open Source Net Management Apps Than Cost Savings ] | Nov 17 21:30 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.informationweek.com/news/software/... [ Open Source SOA Requires Expertise ] | Nov 17 21:30 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.informationweek.com/news/software/open_s... [ Open Source BI Still Fighting For Its Share ] | Nov 17 21:30 |
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| *kentma1 has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) | Nov 17 21:41 |
| schestowitz | Open Source FUD, casting diversity as complexity: http://www.itworld.com/open-source/5752... | Nov 17 21:52 |
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| schestowitz | http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2... "The obvious question - is if Open Source Software (OSS) is so frustrating in Gartner's view - than how do they explain that 85 percent now and 100 percent within a year are using open source? " | Nov 17 21:53 |
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| trmanco | http://www.linuxinsider.com/rssto... | Nov 17 21:55 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft uses F/OSS (other people's)... even the CIO admits it reluctantly... it's a known fact..... http://www.itworld.com/business/57926/to... | Nov 17 21:56 |
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| schestowitz | Paul Allen is in, Gates is out | Nov 17 21:56 |
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| schestowitz | Gates was a lawyer-spoliter type from an affluent family and 'connections'.... like Jobs he had a code monkey (think Woz) to do the coding while he did the stealing, the manipulation and the sabotage or rivals. It's good that they left Gates outta there. | Nov 17 21:58 |
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| *_doug has quit () | Nov 17 22:10 |
| *SubsonicB (n=chatzill@37.Red-88-9-90.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Nov 17 22:12 |
| SubsonicB | hi there | Nov 17 22:12 |
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| schestowitz | Hey, SubsonicB. Long time, no see. | Nov 17 22:13 |
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| SubsonicB | yeah quite busy at work | Nov 17 22:13 |
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| schestowitz | BN is getting information out there, so good progress is made by this campaign. | Nov 17 22:14 |
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| SubsonicB | seen the news about the incidents in India at Novell conference | Nov 17 22:17 |
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| SubsonicB | unbelievable | Nov 17 22:17 |
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| SubsonicB | OT: For enjoyment of the channel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX8yrOAjfKM | Nov 17 22:18 |
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| schestowitz | It caught me by surprise too. I then saw the photos. | Nov 17 22:18 |
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| schestowitz | Check this... | Nov 17 22:18 |
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| schestowitz | http://weblog.infoworld.com/openresource/ar... "However, what I find more interesting are the calls to boycott Novell, Suse, and Microsoft products in India. " | Nov 17 22:18 |
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| schestowitz | Oops. | Nov 17 22:18 |
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| SubsonicB | interesting article... | Nov 17 22:20 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2008/1... | Nov 17 22:20 |
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| SubsonicB | hehe | Nov 17 22:20 |
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| SubsonicB | been quite a while offline | Nov 17 22:20 |
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| schestowitz | You didn't miss much. | Nov 17 22:21 |
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| schestowitz | The market has slown down. | Nov 17 22:21 |
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| SubsonicB | seems like there is some maneouvers along the torpedo amendments at the EU | Nov 17 22:21 |
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| schestowitz | Companies like Google cancel plans to do things because it's too risky, long-term. Microsoft is the same. The consequence is that you haven't much happening in general. | Nov 17 22:22 |
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| SubsonicB | I am concerned about Sun as well | Nov 17 22:22 |
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| schestowitz | SubsonicB: I may have read it about it. Which one specifically? The MAFIAA wants money and control back. | Nov 17 22:22 |
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| twitter | infoworld makes classic mistake, "The truth likely lies somewhere in between." | Nov 17 22:22 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, Sun is important to defend. They mean well. | Nov 17 22:22 |
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| schestowitz | twitter: yes, I saw that. | Nov 17 22:23 |
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| schestowitz | I know the author... we corresponded before and he's from Kerala... he loves proprietary software, IMHO. | Nov 17 22:23 |
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| twitter | I don't know why credibility would be given to organizers who hid the participation of a sponsor. | Nov 17 22:23 |
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| schestowitz | He encourages FOSS companies to go mixed and make money at the expense of code producers... but then again, that's the IBM mentality and he works for them. | Nov 17 22:24 |
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| schestowitz | IBM's vice president of open source mailed me today and I gave an almost rude reply. | Nov 17 22:24 |
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| SubsonicB | FOSS companies go mixed = EEE | Nov 17 22:24 |
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| twitter | Oh, if he can make the mistake of liking non free software, he can believe anything. | Nov 17 22:24 |
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| schestowitz | Well, it's about money to him. | Nov 17 22:25 |
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| SubsonicB | I mean as soon as a FOSS company goes mixed it becomes most vulnerable to Extend+Embrace+Extinguish | Nov 17 22:25 |
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| schestowitz | No offence intended, but money can be an afterthought as many FOSS developers show | Nov 17 22:26 |
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| twitter | As more than one professor corrected me, "If we believe that, anything is possible." Non free software is about money, but none of it is for users. | Nov 17 22:26 |
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| schestowitz | Drupal, WorkdPress, Apache... | Nov 17 22:26 |
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| schestowitz | Re: "If we believe that, anything is possible." The press writes eulogies for Sun very prematurely and I can't help thinking about The Slog Doc. | Nov 17 22:27 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.itbusinessedge.co... < Can Open Source Really Save Sun? >. They are linking to each other with dramatic headlines... Enderle/Lyons style... | Nov 17 22:28 |
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| twitter | Yet the same authors ignore M$'s vanishing cash pile. | Nov 17 22:29 |
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| SubsonicB | "Well, it's about money to him": Due to a personal issue, a long-time worker at my place was fired. At some point these last week I reached the conclussion that most executives become brainwashed in their MBAs courses | Nov 17 22:29 |
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| schestowitz | twitter: that's because Salon and et al sell an image | Nov 17 22:30 |
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| SubsonicB | brainwashed. trained in such a way that they subvert completely the natural value of scale and they put money topmost | Nov 17 22:30 |
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| schestowitz | They also 'punish' those who contradict the image. | Nov 17 22:30 |
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| twitter | They will keep doing it till the money runs out. | Nov 17 22:30 |
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| schestowitz | A strong example of this if the Gates Fundation. When you criticise it even just a bit, an army of anonymous hyenas attacks. | Nov 17 22:30 |
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| twitter | They will vanish with M$. | Nov 17 22:31 |
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| twitter | See the closing price, under $20 again. | Nov 17 22:31 |
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| schestowitz | SubsonicB: I've know such people. I lived next to MBA students. My ex g/f studies for an MBA. | Nov 17 22:31 |
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| SubsonicB | I mean, they try to use the very same simple logic with every single aspect of life | Nov 17 22:32 |
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| schestowitz | I've put a MSFT chart up to put things in perspective for readers to see. | Nov 17 22:32 |
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| twitter | Oh my. What's worse? A spread in Forbes or Playboy? | Nov 17 22:32 |
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| schestowitz | A better chart would be accompanied with buybacks-deducted representation of some sort. | Nov 17 22:32 |
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| twitter | cool | Nov 17 22:32 |
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| SubsonicB | they cannot think beyond money and short-term profits | Nov 17 22:32 |
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| twitter | where's the chart? | Nov 17 22:32 |
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| schestowitz | Forbes and Playboy--equally harmrful. | Nov 17 22:32 |
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| SubsonicB | let me check that chart... | Nov 17 22:32 |
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| schestowitz | Just advocating other sorts of material things. | Nov 17 22:33 |
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| SubsonicB | Do you think the recen administration change will affect MSFT? | Nov 17 22:33 |
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| twitter | Glorification of people as objects, manipulation and other "sharp" practices. | Nov 17 22:33 |
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| twitter | We can only hope for justice. | Nov 17 22:34 |
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| schestowitz | Mark Cuban just got busted | Nov 17 22:34 |
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| schestowitz | http://www.forbes.com/business/2008/11/17/... "The commission charges defendant Mark Cuban with committing securities fraud by engaging in illegal insider trading." | Nov 17 22:34 |
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| schestowitz | Let him get some time in the chamber | Nov 17 22:34 |
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| schestowitz | Water and crumbs... :-} | Nov 17 22:35 |
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| schestowitz | They should go after the Microsoft VPs that do the same thing now. | Nov 17 22:35 |
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| SubsonicB | its "a pan y agua" in my country... | Nov 17 22:35 |
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| schestowitz | How does one report or request an investigation? | Nov 17 22:35 |
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| schestowitz | I have evidence of Microsoft at least one vice president doing the same thing. | Nov 17 22:36 |
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| schestowitz | The issue is, in America white-collar crime is almost being glorified and they treat rich people as though their crimes can never bad as bad as 'the small people's' | Nov 17 22:36 |
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| SubsonicB | I think it is very much the same around the world.... | Nov 17 22:37 |
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| schestowitz | Same thing and same sort of hypocrisy when large countries go to war and call the small people who resist them "pirates" or "terrorists". | Nov 17 22:37 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft exec dumped stock prior to Red Ring announcement : http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/20... | Nov 17 22:38 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft's Bach sold more stock before Xbox news : http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/mic... | Nov 17 22:38 |
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| SubsonicB | Don't tell me, I am just reading "The Shock Doctrine" | Nov 17 22:38 |
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| schestowitz | Seeking Alpha: Insider Trading Hasn't Affect Microsoft Stock - Yet | Nov 17 22:38 |
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| SubsonicB | look at citygroup layoffs... | Nov 17 22:38 |
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| SubsonicB | I don't think MSFT can escape the economic situation for long.... | Nov 17 22:39 |
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| schestowitz | Here's something for NOVL and MSFT: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do... | Nov 17 22:39 |
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| schestowitz | SubsonicB: they already cannibalize their own species | Nov 17 22:39 |
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| twitter | People are taught that white collar crime is wrong, but the laws only go after small fries. | Nov 17 22:39 |
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| schestowitz | It terrifies them that they give Windows almost for free (Netbooks) and render Office obsolete with an online version. | Nov 17 22:40 |
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| twitter | The truly wealthy are protected by a perception of virtue. | Nov 17 22:40 |
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| schestowitz | They don't know how to make money and keep their scale, i.e. not have to downsize. And worse: they lose many customers to GNU/Linux/FOSS/Google and they panic to the point where they make bogus studies. | Nov 17 22:40 |
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| schestowitz | http://blogs.computerworld.com/an... | Nov 17 22:41 |
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| schestowitz | "Boycott Novell did some digging about this latest Microsoft study, and found, just underneath the dirt's surface that ClickStream's senior research analyst is also a former Microsoft Corporation researcher and strategist for the Office product." | Nov 17 22:41 |
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| SubsonicB | and many businesses are going to cut unnecesary expenses... I know officials in my region already looking for counsel about FOSS in order to help local business and local development | Nov 17 22:41 |
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| schestowitz | twitter: it's easier to catch 'small fries' | Nov 17 22:41 |
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| schestowitz | They have no money for lawyers and the crimes are less complicated to show | Nov 17 22:42 |
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| SubsonicB | www.theyrule.org | Nov 17 22:42 |
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| schestowitz | Just watch how the MAFIAA relies on poor students settling with them instead of pulling a Tammy and blast them back for extortion, racketeering, malicious spying, eyc. | Nov 17 22:42 |
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| twitter | banks and IT spending. I read somewhere they make up 22% of M$ revenue. http://slashdot.org/~twitter/jo... | Nov 17 22:43 |
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| schestowitz | It's possible. | Nov 17 22:43 |
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| schestowitz | One academic keeps telling me that "Microsoft's business is mainly buying and selling its own stocks" | Nov 17 22:43 |
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| twitter | Government spending is another big hit, http://slashdot.org/~twitter/jo... | Nov 17 22:43 |
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| SubsonicB | sorry, I meant: http://www.theyrule.net/2004/tr2.php | Nov 17 22:44 |
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| twitter | With the Pentagon going GNU/Linux, M$ is going to run out of customers fast. Even schools will dump them when big wigs do. | Nov 17 22:44 |
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| schestowitz | Dramatising: http://blogs.computerworld.com/su... | Nov 17 22:45 |
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| twitter | buying and selling M$ stock. Is there a living in buying and selling grains of sand? | Nov 17 22:45 |
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| schestowitz | twitter: an important point you must stress over and over again is that Microsoft makes money in very few countries. | Nov 17 22:45 |
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| schestowitz | In developing nations, not even the GOVERNMENT departments pay for Microsoft software. | Nov 17 22:46 |
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| schestowitz | If Microsoft charges them, they'll run away to F/OSS. Microsoft understands it. | Nov 17 22:46 |
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| schestowitz | If it were not for F/OSS, Microsoft would overcharge and rip of f the world like UNIX in the older days | Nov 17 22:46 |
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| schestowitz | .That's what makes GNU/Linux the #1 competition to Microsoft, say Ozzie and Ballmer (they don't name the reasons though) | Nov 17 22:47 |
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| SubsonicB | I think governments are the single major Microsoft customer | Nov 17 22:48 |
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| SubsonicB | That's why they fought so desperately for OOXML becoming ISO-ized | Nov 17 22:49 |
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| schestowitz | Well, standards descend from govt. | Nov 17 22:49 |
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| schestowitz | If the government moves to GNU/Linux (like in Holland), then business needs to follow, then homes. | Nov 17 22:49 |
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| SubsonicB | And now with netbooks there is a breach they are scared to death about | Nov 17 22:49 |
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| schestowitz | It's a top-down thing. To Sun, investments banks and the like were major clients, so they suffer | Nov 17 22:50 |
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| schestowitz | SubsonicB: some sources say that Windows is now 'sold' for $0 | Nov 17 22:50 |
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| schestowitz | Not just in developing countries ($3) | Nov 17 22:50 |
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| schestowitz | Windows revenue keeps declining despite the fact that more people gain access to computers. | Nov 17 22:51 |
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| SubsonicB | by now netbooks are no big deal but are a crack in the dam, a crack in their wholesale global strategy of lock-in and extorrtion to the OEM | Nov 17 22:51 |
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| schestowitz | _A lot_ more people I should add. | Nov 17 22:51 |
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| schestowitz | Well, some say that sub-notebooks can overtake notebooks. | Nov 17 22:51 |
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| schestowitz | OEM lock-in is being cracked too. | Nov 17 22:51 |
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| SubsonicB | what they fear most it that netbooks can prove consumers and manufacturers alike that there is a VIABLE way to escape Windows and all its environment (Antivirus, pay-for add ons, cracks and serials, registration numbres, BSODs...) | Nov 17 22:52 |
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| schestowitz | I think it's about margins. | Nov 17 22:53 |
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| schestowitz | Intel is terrified too. | Nov 17 22:53 |
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| schestowitz | ARM is now in this race also. | Nov 17 22:53 |
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| SubsonicB | quite right | Nov 17 22:54 |
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| schestowitz | They can't just play the collusions routine with Microsoft anymore. | Nov 17 22:54 |
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| schestowitz | There's competiton. | Nov 17 22:54 |
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| schestowitz | AMD, ARM, GNU.. | Nov 17 22:54 |
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| SubsonicB | its a shame that the inferior CISC technology of intel prevailed in the PC-compatible market | Nov 17 22:54 |
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| schestowitz | BTW, I posted something about these collusions in the afternoon. BN FP should still have something. | Nov 17 22:54 |
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| SubsonicB | Do you remember the wintel duopoly? | Nov 17 22:55 |
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| SubsonicB | Its been ages since I am an AMD+Linux only user | Nov 17 22:55 |
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| schestowitz | A reader from Brazil suggested that we should do more to expose the crimes of Intel. | Nov 17 22:55 |
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| schestowitz | They could be a greater threat than Microsoft. | Nov 17 22:55 |
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| schestowitz | They want a soung/GPU/Wi-Fi/CPU/SSD monopoly.. | Nov 17 22:55 |
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| SubsonicB | I remember they wanted to crush VIA as well.... | Nov 17 22:55 |
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| schestowitz | They are in the business of crashing. | Nov 17 22:56 |
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| schestowitz | Extreme capitalism, as RMS calls it. | Nov 17 22:56 |
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| SubsonicB | maybe through patents, can't quite remember | Nov 17 22:56 |
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| SubsonicB | disaster capitalism | Nov 17 22:56 |
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| schestowitz | Imagine if we as humans behaves like companies in the US. | Nov 17 22:56 |
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| SubsonicB | predatory capitalism | Nov 17 22:56 |
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| schestowitz | We'd kill each other for territory and also scheme to screw people... | Nov 17 22:56 |
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| schestowitz | SubsonicB: RMS called it "extreme". I say predatory too. Watch what Oracle did to RHT | Nov 17 22:57 |
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| SubsonicB | MySQL and SuSE used to be european companies, you know? | Nov 17 22:57 |
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| schestowitz | Or to MySQL | Nov 17 22:57 |
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| schestowitz | They bought companies they don't need just to stab MySQL. | Nov 17 22:57 |
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| schestowitz | SubsonicB: used to. They are still based there, no? Even the OOo team in mostly in Germany. | Nov 17 22:57 |
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| SubsonicB | Yes, but now they depend on american decision-makers | Nov 17 22:58 |
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| SubsonicB | And many american execs are like Warren Buffet: They buy companies and squeeze them to death | Nov 17 22:58 |
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| schestowitz | Can you tell me more about it? | Nov 17 22:59 |
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| schestowitz | Maybe links? | Nov 17 22:59 |
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| SubsonicB | Afterwards they get their golden compensations and go elsewhere | Nov 17 22:59 |
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| schestowitz | When I speak to people about the super-welathy being super-corrupt I am countered with Bufet as an example. But I don't know enough about his dark side. | Nov 17 22:59 |
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| schestowitz | Slim is a monopolist in Mexico, AFAIK. | Nov 17 22:59 |
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| SubsonicB | That's something always heard about W.B.: He is always looking for troubled companies, he is a investors in downwards markets | Nov 17 23:00 |
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| schestowitz | And then they say... "it's business" (IOW, these are the broken rules granting us the right to do so) | Nov 17 23:00 |
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| SubsonicB | Well, monopol is another added problem. | Nov 17 23:00 |
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| schestowitz | Sounds like another Icahn | Nov 17 23:00 |
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| schestowitz | That man sickens me. Yahoo! labeled him a corporate agitators. He has done this for ages. | Nov 17 23:01 |
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| SubsonicB | John Kenneth Galbraith wrote that the current state of capitalism is anything but a free market | Nov 17 23:01 |
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| schestowitz | They call his investor-activist... much like calling Al Qaeda trainers-activists | Nov 17 23:01 |
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| SubsonicB | where a handful of companies control completely large sectors of the economy fixing prices and avoiding to compete | Nov 17 23:01 |
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| schestowitz | Free market is bad. It says nothing about a 'regularisation term'. | Nov 17 23:02 |
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| schestowitz | it's like letting bad animals loose in a cage... like cock fights. | Nov 17 23:02 |
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| SubsonicB | Free markets don't EXIST! | Nov 17 23:02 |
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| SubsonicB | not anymore | Nov 17 23:02 |
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| schestowitz | Ever/ | Nov 17 23:02 |
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| schestowitz | OOps. Typos... Do you mean never did..? | Nov 17 23:02 |
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| SubsonicB | :-) | Nov 17 23:02 |
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| schestowitz | History gets rewritten too, you know. | Nov 17 23:03 |
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| SubsonicB | yes | Nov 17 23:03 |
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| schestowitz | People tend to see the more recent renditions of history. | Nov 17 23:03 |
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| schestowitz | Just watch what the press did when Gates retired. They did revisionism. | Nov 17 23:03 |
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| schestowitz | Indian genocide=Pocahontas. | Nov 17 23:04 |
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| SubsonicB | Yes, they portrayed him as a benefactor | Nov 17 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | Haha. | Nov 17 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | Well, he pays their bills. | Nov 17 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | Like Ziff/Gates | Nov 17 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | Look.. open source blog. | Nov 17 23:04 |
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| SubsonicB | That's ight | Nov 17 23:04 |
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| schestowitz | Brought to you by Microsoft Windoss users: http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-so... | Nov 17 23:05 |
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| schestowitz | The bias is telling. | Nov 17 23:05 |
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| schestowitz | Ziff Davis Gates | Nov 17 23:05 |
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| SubsonicB | open source has lost any meaningful sense | Nov 17 23:05 |
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| schestowitz | I know. | Nov 17 23:05 |
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| schestowitz | I escaped to Free software last year. I also stick with the FSF 'camp' now. | Nov 17 23:05 |
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| SubsonicB | The term has been fagocitated (EEEd) by MSFT marketing machinery | Nov 17 23:05 |
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| schestowitz | Other people like ESR and ORLY saw $$ and took advantage of those who didn't./ | Nov 17 23:06 |
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| schestowitz | Not just Microsoft ruined it though. | Nov 17 23:06 |
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| SubsonicB | Anyway I agree with the opinion that the term "open source" was coined to make free software palatable to the old-minded type of businessman | Nov 17 23:06 |
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| schestowitz | It was groupwork. | Nov 17 23:06 |
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| schestowitz | Many companies do the JEOO (Just enough open source) routine. | Nov 17 23:06 |
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| schestowitz | Look... here's some scrap of code.. go play with it... GOOD, you see? Now we're good open source citizens. | Nov 17 23:07 |
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| SubsonicB | I think we agree | Nov 17 23:07 |
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| schestowitz | Novell is the extreme case too. | Nov 17 23:08 |
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| schestowitz | "Mixed source"... | Nov 17 23:08 |
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| SubsonicB | they look at freedom as a medium, a "bait" in order to make money, and not as an end in itself that will procure (freedom) them money as a side effect | Nov 17 23:08 |
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| schestowitz | Since 2004 or so they have used this term.. | Nov 17 23:08 |
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| SubsonicB | There is no mix | Nov 17 23:09 |
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| schestowitz | Free software->open source->mixed source->hybrid->Windows (with BSD stacks embedded therein) | Nov 17 23:09 |
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| SubsonicB | mix is not the word. The word is contamination. | Nov 17 23:09 |
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| schestowitz | Tainting? | Nov 17 23:10 |
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| schestowitz | You can't say that though. | Nov 17 23:10 |
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| schestowitz | Cause that invited GPL FUD. | Nov 17 23:10 |
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| SubsonicB | pollution. legal encumberment €¿does encumberment exist in english? | Nov 17 23:10 |
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| schestowitz | The 'zealots' of the GPL will come and shoot you down.. | Nov 17 23:10 |
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| schestowitz | Pollution means mixing. | Nov 17 23:10 |
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| schestowitz | The connotation is often negative thouygh. | Nov 17 23:10 |
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| SubsonicB | They attach legal requirement to the usage of free software in combination with their propietary products and the resulting whole is not free neither open anymore | Nov 17 23:11 |
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| schestowitz | "So here it comes - the official position vacant notice. DistroWatch is looking for a new editor of DistroWatch Weekly." http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?i... | Nov 17 23:11 |
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| SubsonicB | Saw that earlier | Nov 17 23:12 |
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| schestowitz | Ladislav is hanging the DWW towel. I guess that's fair. Other sites do his work better. | Nov 17 23:12 |
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| SubsonicB | He did a tremendous job all this time anyway | Nov 17 23:12 |
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| SubsonicB | Let me ask your opinion about OSNews | Nov 17 23:12 |
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| SubsonicB | I think it used to be much less microsoft-focused €¿don't you think? | Nov 17 23:13 |
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| schestowitz | "I don't intend to disappear from public life completely, but for the foreseeable future I'd like to go through my long and growing to-do list to improve the site and to implement some of the often-requested features." | Nov 17 23:13 |
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| schestowitz | Good. Time for a new theme. :-) | Nov 17 23:13 |
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| schestowitz | OSNews... I don't like it much. | Nov 17 23:13 |
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| schestowitz | Thom annoys me a lot | Nov 17 23:13 |
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| SubsonicB | Neither do I, but the fact is that I used to | Nov 17 23:13 |
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| schestowitz | They also cover less operating system and more 'toy' systems and vapourware. | Nov 17 23:13 |
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| SubsonicB | And now 1 out of 3 pieces of news is about MSFT | Nov 17 23:14 |
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| schestowitz | Preoccupation with what's not technical if you know what I mean.. | Nov 17 23:14 |
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| schestowitz | Somtimes it's more than a third. | Nov 17 23:14 |
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| schestowitz | *sometimes | Nov 17 23:14 |
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| schestowitz | Keep an eye on who submits. | Nov 17 23:14 |
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| SubsonicB | Even when there is no news to report except some vaporware RC announcement | Nov 17 23:14 |
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| schestowitz | It was quiet there for a while, then redone, then they got new contributors. | Nov 17 23:14 |
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| schestowitz | There are also Novellers commenting there. | Nov 17 23:15 |
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| schestowitz | Did you tell them? | Nov 17 23:15 |
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| SubsonicB | Nope | Nov 17 23:15 |
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| schestowitz | I think we have important issues to explore. | Nov 17 23:15 |
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| schestowitz | To map my mind as I go along. | Nov 17 23:16 |
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| schestowitz | One thing that cannot be ignored is the relationship between some politics and technology | Nov 17 23:16 |
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| schestowitz | "Geeks like to think that they can ignore politics, you can leave politics alone, but politics won't leave you alone." | Nov 17 23:16 |
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| SubsonicB | Thats right | Nov 17 23:16 |
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| schestowitz | Said Richard Stallman. Especially now amid turbulance we have a big chance to tap minds. | Nov 17 23:16 |
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| schestowitz | We need to not only expose but also to map shills and mouthpieces | Nov 17 23:17 |
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| SubsonicB | cant' quite follow you | Nov 17 23:17 |
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| schestowitz | It: 1) helps people know who to listen to; 2) pressure these people to be honest because they are watched. | Nov 17 23:17 |
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| schestowitz | Gartner is being slammed now. | Nov 17 23:17 |
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| SubsonicB | Seems the evangelism-is-war is permeating ever more and more sites | Nov 17 23:17 |
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| schestowitz | I think BN had some effect in reducing trust in analysts. Some. | Nov 17 23:17 |
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| SubsonicB | I remember when ther was almost no web 2.0 | Nov 17 23:18 |
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| SubsonicB | Most mainstream news sites just told news about MSFT | Nov 17 23:18 |
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| schestowitz | "The obvious question - is if Open Source Software (OSS) is so frustrating in Gartner's view - than how do they explain that 85 percent now and 100 percent within a year are using open source? " http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2008/11/... | Nov 17 23:18 |
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| SubsonicB | and other proprietary companies (Lotus, IBM...) | Nov 17 23:18 |
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| schestowitz | Also today: http://www.computerworlduk.com/community... "Gartner's negative spin on the inarguable facts of a massive and increasing open source uptake in companies is FUD, pure and simple. Ignore it." | Nov 17 23:18 |
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| schestowitz | SubsonicB: Mary Jo Foley cites Evanglism leak earlier today. | Nov 17 23:19 |
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| schestowitz | Same with other big sites. | Nov 17 23:19 |
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| schestowitz | BN gets about 800 000 hits today | Nov 17 23:19 |
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| SubsonicB | And now most of the relevant nformation (I mean, not advertisements in disguise) comes from the FOSS camp | Nov 17 23:19 |
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| schestowitz | ANyway, mapping forces of Freedom suppression is one thing. | Nov 17 23:19 |
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| schestowitz | Then you can also accumulate more supporters. | Nov 17 23:19 |
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| SubsonicB | There is no spontaneous sites appearing to comment or to help on proprietary software | Nov 17 23:20 |
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| SubsonicB | Proprietary software cannot have a community | Nov 17 23:20 |
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| schestowitz | The people in India I didn't know about, but they make many headline and people listen to their talk about freedom. Not ORLY-type "open source" BS... | Nov 17 23:20 |
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| SubsonicB | So instead proprietary companies send their drones to infiltrate FOSS communities online | Nov 17 23:20 |
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| schestowitz | Proprietary sofwtare has whitepapers... | Nov 17 23:21 |
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| schestowitz | See how all the major sites weave in stuff from those with $$ (from legacy mostly) | Nov 17 23:21 |
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| SubsonicB | They hire, buy or blackmail those communities leaders in order to disrupt sincere and spontaneouscommunication inside those communities | Nov 17 23:21 |
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| schestowitz | This puts the whitepapers in search engines and helps them produce literature. | Nov 17 23:21 |
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| schestowitz | As Ziff/Gates goes out of business and CNET sacks en masse, however, they lose this control. | Nov 17 23:21 |
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| SubsonicB | whitepapers... yeah, yeah, but whitepapers have a problem: The public is trusting them less and less | Nov 17 23:22 |
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| schestowitz | SubsonicB: yes, they have marketing agencies to bribe bloggers too. | Nov 17 23:22 |
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| SubsonicB | The internet has allowed that | Nov 17 23:22 |
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| schestowitz | All proven fact, no hypothesis or conspiract, | Nov 17 23:22 |
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| SubsonicB | I mean, the internet has allowed a window of true free speech that have discovered mainstream press lies and conflicts of interests (with advertisers, e.g.) | Nov 17 23:23 |
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| schestowitz | I was taught by someone always to test people who are 'new'... | Nov 17 23:23 |
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| schestowitz | There are known cases of 'spies' and disruptors being sent. | Nov 17 23:23 |
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| schestowitz | Including here. | Nov 17 23:23 |
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| SubsonicB | Now, big comanies, media and politicians are seeking for ways to close that free-speech windows | Nov 17 23:23 |
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| SubsonicB | windows | Nov 17 23:23 |
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| SubsonicB | window | Nov 17 23:23 |
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| schestowitz | There was a Microsoft guy here who published a smear based on IRC... he's not here anymore. | Nov 17 23:23 |
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| SubsonicB | sorry for naming the MSFT product | Nov 17 23:23 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, that too. | Nov 17 23:23 |
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| SubsonicB | I meant window in a sense similar to "launch window" | Nov 17 23:24 |
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| schestowitz | Which is why free speech (FFII, Digital Majority, Lessig, EFF) are equally important | Nov 17 23:24 |
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| SubsonicB | Something limited in time and a chance you must take | Nov 17 23:24 |
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| schestowitz | ACTA is coming. Yay! | Nov 17 23:24 |
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| SubsonicB | It's all about the same as Free Software | Nov 17 23:24 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, it is. | Nov 17 23:24 |
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| SubsonicB | Free Software is very much about free speech and freedom to acquire and share true and relevant knowledge, the same as Creative Commons and all the campaigns and orgs defending free speech online | Nov 17 23:25 |
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| SubsonicB | let me chack something I want to send you | Nov 17 23:26 |
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| schestowitz | OK | Nov 17 23:27 |
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| SubsonicB | http://www.freedomofexpression.us/book.html | Nov 17 23:28 |
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| SubsonicB | I havent read it fully | Nov 17 23:28 |
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| SubsonicB | but seems interesting | Nov 17 23:28 |
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| SubsonicB | says many things lessig already told us in "Free Culture" | Nov 17 23:28 |
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| SubsonicB | And adds a chapter about Free Software | Nov 17 23:28 |
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| schestowitz | CC? | Nov 17 23:29 |
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| SubsonicB | yep | Nov 17 23:29 |
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| schestowitz | I don't read book, but it's available for d/l I assume | Nov 17 23:29 |
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| schestowitz | Like Gilmore's stuff. | Nov 17 23:29 |
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| SubsonicB | here: http://www.freedomofexpression.us/documen... | Nov 17 23:30 |
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| schestowitz | I got it bookmarked | Nov 17 23:30 |
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| SubsonicB | must leave now | Nov 17 23:30 |
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| SubsonicB | as always it's a pleasure to conversate with you | Nov 17 23:31 |
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| SubsonicB | Hope I had a little more time to comment at BN... | Nov 17 23:31 |
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| SubsonicB | Wish I had... | Nov 17 23:31 |
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| schestowitz | You too. | Nov 17 23:32 |
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| schestowitz | [as always it's a pleasure to conversate with you] | Nov 17 23:32 |
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| SubsonicB | Take care and don't surrender to the trolls and shills... same for all good-hearted BoycottNovellers fighting for freedom!!!!!! | Nov 17 23:33 |
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| SubsonicB | bye! | Nov 17 23:33 |
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| *SubsonicB has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.3/2008092510]") | Nov 17 23:33 |
