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| oiaohm | Can you not get the split. | Mar 12 12:25 |
|---|---|---|
| jose | split? | Mar 12 12:26 |
| oiaohm | ScanTwain is a front end. Ie no drivers. | Mar 12 12:26 |
| oiaohm | So by it self cannot scan anything. | Mar 12 12:26 |
| jose | i think i'm following | Mar 12 12:26 |
| jose | now how would i get the drivers and where would i find mono | Mar 12 12:26 |
| oiaohm | The mono dependancy is in the driver. | Mar 12 12:26 |
| jose | and why can't i see this information in the press release | Mar 12 12:27 |
| jose | the press release says mono needed for *gui* | Mar 12 12:27 |
| oiaohm | Gui of the driver. | Mar 12 12:27 |
| jose | how would i access that | Mar 12 12:27 |
| jose | where would i find those files | Mar 12 12:27 |
| oiaohm | Someone cut and pasted from driver information page into a press release. | Mar 12 12:27 |
| oiaohm | Without double checking by the looks of it. | Mar 12 12:28 |
| jose | do you know where i would find the drivers? | Mar 12 12:28 |
| jose | ok, i'm heading over to www.sane-project.org to look for those drivers | Mar 12 12:29 |
| oiaohm | No there not a sane-project.org | Mar 12 12:30 |
| oiaohm | I am wonder where there drivers are hidden my self. | Mar 12 12:30 |
| jose | i couldn't find it there either | Mar 12 12:30 |
| jose | a reason this grabbed my attention was that microsoft has paid people to use silverlight | Mar 12 12:31 |
| jose | market uptake is a serious issue in some circles | Mar 12 12:32 |
| oiaohm | http://graphics.kodak.com/docimagin... | Mar 12 12:32 |
| oiaohm | Yep universal .net driver. | Mar 12 12:32 |
| jose | ok that seems to be it | Mar 12 12:33 |
| oiaohm | Now that adds a new wrinkle to the .net problem. | Mar 12 12:34 |
| jose | let me verify this then.. there is the driver gui and the scantwain gui.. one requires mono and the other qt | Mar 12 12:35 |
| oiaohm | Yep | Mar 12 12:35 |
| oiaohm | Even if you are using sane with the driver you would still annoying need mono to use the driver. | Mar 12 12:36 |
| jose | it's a binary | Mar 12 12:36 |
| jose | without thinking i was assuming i'd find some source | Mar 12 12:37 |
| jose | stupid me | Mar 12 12:37 |
| jose | well, i'm actually guessing there is no source.. | Mar 12 12:37 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@41.249.74.11) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 12 12:37 | |
| _Hicham_ | Hi All! | Mar 12 12:38 |
| oiaohm | Yep jose its a closed source driver. | Mar 12 12:38 |
| jose | btw, what is the flag to peek inside an rpm? | Mar 12 12:39 |
| jose | -q? | Mar 12 12:40 |
| jose | nope | Mar 12 12:40 |
| jose | -q -l? | Mar 12 12:40 |
| jose | nope | Mar 12 12:41 |
| oiaohm | Hmm its two halfs. | Mar 12 12:46 |
| oiaohm | One that is .net the gui of the driver. | Mar 12 12:47 |
| oiaohm | one that is the driver it self that is a native elf. | Mar 12 12:47 |
| jose | dotnet files have their own format or are they encoded into the elf? | Mar 12 12:50 |
| jose | for example, java has .class files | Mar 12 12:51 |
| jose | you run these as data to the jvm | Mar 12 12:51 |
| jose | but if you compile, i presume you would get an elf that would set everything up and run the class file | Mar 12 12:52 |
| jose | i imagine dotnet is possibly similar | Mar 12 12:52 |
| oiaohm | dotnet files are windows pe stubs with .net bytecode after it. | Mar 12 12:52 |
| jose | well.. in terms of linux | Mar 12 12:52 |
| oiaohm | ,net binarys are the same on all platforms. | Mar 12 12:52 |
| oiaohm | Yes eww | Mar 12 12:53 |
| jose | is pe the exec file format on windows? | Mar 12 12:53 |
| oiaohm | Yep | Mar 12 12:53 |
| jose | so wouldn't you need something that linux loader would understand | Mar 12 12:53 |
| oiaohm | mono windowsstubed.net.exe | Mar 12 12:53 |
| oiaohm | Linux kernel does not load .net executables natively. | Mar 12 12:54 |
| oiaohm | Neiher does windows. | Mar 12 12:54 |
| jose | ie, dotnet binary needs the interface .. fine | Mar 12 12:54 |
| jose | i thought when you said binaries you meant it just runs as is on linux | Mar 12 12:55 |
| jose | understand now | Mar 12 12:55 |
| _Hicham_ | what is that program? | Mar 12 12:55 |
| jose | kodak scanner driver | Mar 12 12:55 |
| _Hicham_ | isnt available natively in Linux? | Mar 12 12:56 |
| oiaohm | It does have 1 bit that is a native Linux elf. | Mar 12 12:56 |
| jose | http://graphics.kodak.com/docimaging/US/e... | Mar 12 12:56 |
| oiaohm | The driver is half .net half native _Hicham_ | Mar 12 12:56 |
| jose | http://www.designtaxi.com/ne... | Mar 12 12:56 |
| oiaohm | A real ugly driver. | Mar 12 12:56 |
| _Hicham_ | wow | Mar 12 12:57 |
| _Hicham_ | if it was entirely in .NET, you could have used mono | Mar 12 12:57 |
| _Hicham_ | even though it is not appreciated in here | Mar 12 12:57 |
| oiaohm | I don't think the driver could have been created fully in .net and worked to twain 2.0 standard. | Mar 12 12:58 |
| _Hicham_ | why? | Mar 12 12:58 |
| oiaohm | C calling interface to a library. | Mar 12 12:58 |
| jose | thanks for helping to clarify that up oiaohm | Mar 12 12:59 |
| jose | i'll be going soon then | Mar 12 12:59 |
| oiaohm | Little bit hard to do in .net build a lib that other programs can call _Hicham_ | Mar 12 12:59 |
| _Hicham_ | well, you can link to .NET libraries as you would do with any native library | Mar 12 13:00 |
| _Hicham_ | plus, .NET library are managed | Mar 12 13:00 |
| oiaohm | Linux native program calling .net libraries without any fance interface. | Mar 12 13:00 |
| oiaohm | fancy interface | Mar 12 13:00 |
| jose | schestowitz.. it was a false alarm | Mar 12 13:00 |
| oiaohm | Not that simple _Hicham_ | Mar 12 13:00 |
| _Hicham_ | well, what do the mono assemblies do in here? | Mar 12 13:01 |
| _Hicham_ | aren't they created for that? | Mar 12 13:01 |
| oiaohm | Nop | Mar 12 13:01 |
| _Hicham_ | what are they created for then? | Mar 12 13:01 |
| oiaohm | Not to provide a pure C style interface to talk to. | Mar 12 13:01 |
| oiaohm | They provide preoptimised _Hicham_ | Mar 12 13:01 |
| oiaohm | gcc cil project might be able to do it in time. Or if mono aot has major alterations maybe. | Mar 12 13:02 |
| _Hicham_ | is there a gcc cil project? | Mar 12 13:02 |
| oiaohm | Yes there is _Hicham_ | Mar 12 13:02 |
| _Hicham_ | who is sponsoring it? | Mar 12 13:03 |
| oiaohm | No one is a person pet project. | Mar 12 13:03 |
| _Hicham_ | what would be the profit? | Mar 12 13:03 |
| oiaohm | http://gcc.gnu.org/projects/cli.html | Mar 12 13:04 |
| oiaohm | Not all things have profit _Hicham_ | Mar 12 13:04 |
| oiaohm | Some are can it be done. | Mar 12 13:04 |
| oiaohm | It can open up the way for all language known by gcc to be built for .net | Mar 12 13:05 |
| oiaohm | Also open up the way to building native programs from .net objects. | Mar 12 13:05 |
| _Hicham_ | but, would M$ allow that? | Mar 12 13:06 |
| _Hicham_ | MS allowed gcc because it wasn't a threat to MSVC | Mar 12 13:06 |
| oiaohm | Really MSVC is not the best complier out there. | Mar 12 13:06 |
| _Hicham_ | but I think that this era is over | Mar 12 13:06 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : it is the most used | Mar 12 13:06 |
| _Hicham_ | no? | Mar 12 13:07 |
| oiaohm | MS has not taken down the portland group complier. | Mar 12 13:07 |
| oiaohm | From a techical point of view it is the best. | Mar 12 13:07 |
| _Hicham_ | but MSVC is most used : that is a fact | Mar 12 13:07 |
| _Hicham_ | it is used now even on Open Source projects | Mar 12 13:07 |
| _Hicham_ | go look in sourceforge | Mar 12 13:07 |
| oiaohm | Portland group complier takes a single thread program and makes it multi threaded. | Mar 12 13:07 |
| oiaohm | You really want to make some open source programs take advantage of multi core you can gues what you would be using. | Mar 12 13:08 |
| _Hicham_ | Visual Studio | Mar 12 13:08 |
| oiaohm | Nop | Mar 12 13:08 |
| _Hicham_ | or ICC | Mar 12 13:08 |
| oiaohm | ICC does not have it either. | Mar 12 13:08 |
| _Hicham_ | ICC is the best out there | Mar 12 13:08 |
| _Hicham_ | ? | Mar 12 13:08 |
| oiaohm | nop | Mar 12 13:08 |
| oiaohm | ICC does not contain auto code processing like Portland group. | Mar 12 13:09 |
| _Hicham_ | is Portland group compiler available for all platforms? | Mar 12 13:09 |
| oiaohm | Gcc is only starting to develop the means to match Portland. | Mar 12 13:09 |
| oiaohm | Yes Portland group complier is available for all platforms. | Mar 12 13:09 |
| oiaohm | Ever wondered why MSVC ended up free. | Mar 12 13:10 |
| oiaohm | Its no longer a sellable product against something like portland group complier. | Mar 12 13:10 |
| _Hicham_ | because there was huge competitors, and free alternatives | Mar 12 13:10 |
| oiaohm | Yes portland group complier still sells for money. | Mar 12 13:10 |
| oiaohm | High performance systems will pay for good compliers. | Mar 12 13:11 |
| _Hicham_ | MSVC is not free | Mar 12 13:11 |
| oiaohm | Really. Its included for nothing in the windows sdk's. | Mar 12 13:12 |
| oiaohm | Basically as a complier if you cannot aford better. | Mar 12 13:12 |
| _Hicham_ | the Express versions are free | Mar 12 13:12 |
| _Hicham_ | Standard and Professional are not | Mar 12 13:13 |
| oiaohm | SDK versions are also free _Hicham_ | Mar 12 13:13 |
| oiaohm | That are the same as what comes in Standrad. | Mar 12 13:13 |
| _Hicham_ | no | Mar 12 13:13 |
| oiaohm | You are paying for the IDE not the complier. | Mar 12 13:13 |
| _Hicham_ | they don't include ATL and MFC | Mar 12 13:13 |
| oiaohm | ATL is on sourceforge. | Mar 12 13:14 |
| oiaohm | Yes free. | Mar 12 13:14 |
| _Hicham_ | is WTL | Mar 12 13:14 |
| _Hicham_ | not ATL | Mar 12 13:14 |
| _Hicham_ | are u sure? | Mar 12 13:14 |
| oiaohm | Opps mixed WTL and ATL up. | Mar 12 13:14 |
| oiaohm | ATL and MFC can be got threw mainsoft. | Mar 12 13:14 |
| oiaohm | Independant to the complier. | Mar 12 13:15 |
| _Hicham_ | if u pay | Mar 12 13:15 |
| oiaohm | They are not the complier. | Mar 12 13:15 |
| oiaohm | Its like saying QT is part of gcc. | Mar 12 13:15 |
| _Hicham_ | i know they are not the compiler | Mar 12 13:15 |
| _Hicham_ | but they are still essential | Mar 12 13:15 |
| oiaohm | Not really. | Mar 12 13:15 |
| _Hicham_ | all projects use MFC | Mar 12 13:15 |
| oiaohm | If you are building QT projects like me MFC is just a waste of space. | Mar 12 13:16 |
| _Hicham_ | not all people work with QT | Mar 12 13:16 |
| _Hicham_ | a lot of programmers still prefer MFC | Mar 12 13:16 |
| _Hicham_ | and a lot of legacy programs are in MFC | Mar 12 13:16 |
| _Hicham_ | and the most evident way to port them is wxWidgets | Mar 12 13:16 |
| _Hicham_ | but it is not that easy | Mar 12 13:17 |
| oiaohm | Exaclty. | Mar 12 13:17 |
| oiaohm | It simple not to have the headache in the first place and just code straight in QT and be done with it. | Mar 12 13:17 |
| _Hicham_ | but what about legacy programs? | Mar 12 13:17 |
| oiaohm | MFC is not what you call the greatest performing thing. | Mar 12 13:17 |
| _Hicham_ | it is not about performance | Mar 12 13:18 |
| oiaohm | My legacy programs are from Posix world. So its not a issue to me. | Mar 12 13:18 |
| oiaohm | Not all coders need MFC. | Mar 12 13:18 |
| _Hicham_ | Qt has created a migration framework for MFC programs | Mar 12 13:18 |
| oiaohm | So does mainsoft. | Mar 12 13:18 |
| _Hicham_ | it is a good job, but still a long process | Mar 12 13:19 |
| _Hicham_ | mainsoft port them natively, no? | Mar 12 13:19 |
| oiaohm | Reason why its advantagece to anyone working cross platform to buy MFC threw mainsoft. | Mar 12 13:19 |
| *jose has quit ("Leaving") | Mar 12 13:19 | |
| oiaohm | You get natively ported MFC on Linux as well as MFC support on windows. | Mar 12 13:19 |
| oiaohm | Basically there is very little reason to be buying MSVC for anything other that that you like the IDE. | Mar 12 13:20 |
| _Hicham_ | is there any equivalent IDE? | Mar 12 13:20 |
| oiaohm | I am more use to kdevelop than MSVC. | Mar 12 13:20 |
| _Hicham_ | and in ur opinion kdevelop is better than MSVC? | Mar 12 13:21 |
| oiaohm | Ok kdevelop does not have all the features of MS. But I don't code the same way as MS IDE works. | Mar 12 13:21 |
| oiaohm | Its not always being better _Hicham_ its more if it sutes your style. | Mar 12 13:22 |
| _Hicham_ | I know it is not about being better, but there is a style for each platform | Mar 12 13:23 |
| _Hicham_ | and MSVC is Window's style | Mar 12 13:23 |
| oiaohm | My own kdevelop has some of my own personal addons for code auditing for secuirty flaws. | Mar 12 13:23 |
| oiaohm | That I would have to rebuild if I went to MSVS | Mar 12 13:24 |
| oiaohm | Intergrated valgrind is also useful. Its very hard to find something like valgrind for windows. | Mar 12 13:24 |
| _Hicham_ | isn't it available for windows also? | Mar 12 13:24 |
| _Hicham_ | valgrind is cross platform, no? | Mar 12 13:25 |
| oiaohm | Everywhere bar windows. | Mar 12 13:25 |
| oiaohm | To run it on a windows binary you have to run the windows binary inside wine _Hicham_ | Mar 12 13:26 |
| oiaohm | Yes on Linux. | Mar 12 13:26 |
| _Hicham_ | what about using Cygwin to compile it on Windows? | Mar 12 13:27 |
| oiaohm | Does not work. | Mar 12 13:27 |
| oiaohm | Its depending on lower level stuff in the OS that don't line up. | Mar 12 13:27 |
| _Hicham_ | Cygwin is always in progress | Mar 12 13:28 |
| oiaohm | Cygwin techincally can never do it. | Mar 12 13:29 |
| oiaohm | Will not matter how much it improves. | Mar 12 13:29 |
| _Hicham_ | ok, i see what u mean | Mar 12 13:30 |
| _Hicham_ | i didn't work with kdevelop a lot | Mar 12 13:30 |
| _Hicham_ | to be honest with you, i found kde unstable the time i used it | Mar 12 13:30 |
| oiaohm | What distribution. | Mar 12 13:31 |
| oiaohm | What version of kde as well. | Mar 12 13:31 |
| oiaohm | kde 3.5 under debian is highly stable. | Mar 12 13:31 |
| oiaohm | If you where trying Ubuntu or Fedora I could understand stablity problems. | Mar 12 13:32 |
| _Hicham_ | i think i used it under mandrake 9.1 | Mar 12 13:32 |
| _Hicham_ | do u think Ubuntu is less stable? | Mar 12 13:32 |
| oiaohm | mandrake is about the same. | Mar 12 13:32 |
| oiaohm | Both include more proto features. | Mar 12 13:33 |
| oiaohm | Ubuntu pulseaudio on by default causes KDE some issues. | Mar 12 13:33 |
| oiaohm | to be correct pulseaudio causes a lot of programs some issues. | Mar 12 13:34 |
| _Hicham_ | it is not easy to abstrat all sound interfaces | Mar 12 13:34 |
| _Hicham_ | but we still need a unique sound system | Mar 12 13:34 |
| _Hicham_ | a modern and innovative one | Mar 12 13:35 |
| _Hicham_ | like direct sound | Mar 12 13:35 |
| oiaohm | What pulseaudio is doing will disappear in time. | Mar 12 13:35 |
| _Hicham_ | there should be a unified framework | Mar 12 13:35 |
| oiaohm | Its simply not compadible with what the Linux kernel will be in a few years. | Mar 12 13:35 |
| _Hicham_ | that way game makers will develop for linux | Mar 12 13:35 |
| _Hicham_ | then there should an alternative | Mar 12 13:36 |
| _Hicham_ | there must be sthg like direct sound model | Mar 12 13:36 |
| oiaohm | _Hicham_: What alternative is needed. | Mar 12 13:36 |
| oiaohm | Alsa is there. | Mar 12 13:36 |
| _Hicham_ | not the only one | Mar 12 13:36 |
| oiaohm | Needs work. pulseaudio is basically a destraction. | Mar 12 13:36 |
| oiaohm | cgroups feature that is being embeded in Linux will basically snap pulseaudio. | Mar 12 13:37 |
| oiaohm | Pulseaudio stores information inside a server that should be connected to the process itself. | Mar 12 13:37 |
| oiaohm | Reason why Pulseaudio will die its design is wrong. | Mar 12 13:38 |
| oiaohm | Anyone who read open source sound history would know that all sound servers in time die. | Mar 12 13:39 |
| _Hicham_ | just a temporary solution | Mar 12 13:39 |
| oiaohm | A bad temporay solution. | Mar 12 13:39 |
| _Hicham_ | what do u suggest? | Mar 12 13:39 |
| oiaohm | cgroups are about resource control. | Mar 12 13:39 |
| oiaohm | Audio is just another resource to control. | Mar 12 13:40 |
| _Hicham_ | yes, that is it, it is a just a resource | Mar 12 13:40 |
| oiaohm | cgroups are kernel level. Connect information to processes. So when a process is indivudually suspend when restored its state can remain. | Mar 12 13:40 |
| _Hicham_ | what do u think of direct sound? | Mar 12 13:41 |
| oiaohm | cgroups all ready control cpu mem network and process tables. Work is on way for devices and video. | Mar 12 13:41 |
| oiaohm | direct sound could be done way better. | Mar 12 13:42 |
| oiaohm | That is the other problem with pulseaudio its not in a location where it can have any effect on how much cpu time its feeder applications get. | Mar 12 13:43 |
| _Hicham_ | i think that there should be the same thing in linux | Mar 12 13:43 |
| _Hicham_ | a kind of unified framework for audio and video | Mar 12 13:43 |
| oiaohm | What is the most important thing to make that work _Hicham_ | Mar 12 13:44 |
| oiaohm | Its so simple. CPU time where it needed. | Mar 12 13:44 |
| oiaohm | The things that control the allocations of cpu time is inside the kernel itself. | Mar 12 13:44 |
| oiaohm | The complete idea of sound server solution is not going to work. | Mar 12 13:45 |
| _Hicham_ | and so, sound in linux will always be a mess | Mar 12 13:46 |
| oiaohm | Video in Linux is already moving its management kernel mode. | Mar 12 13:46 |
| oiaohm | I would not say always be a mess. | Mar 12 13:47 |
| oiaohm | People said that about X11 too. | Mar 12 13:47 |
| oiaohm | Many years latter it getting cleaned up as common sence as taken over. | Mar 12 13:47 |
| oiaohm | Its more how long before a common sence event happens to the audio system. | Mar 12 13:48 |
| _Hicham_ | it won't | Mar 12 13:49 |
| _Hicham_ | there must be some central authority | Mar 12 13:49 |
| oiaohm | Same was said about X11 _Hicham_ | Mar 12 13:49 |
| _Hicham_ | or torvalds himself should decide | Mar 12 13:49 |
| oiaohm | Its exacty like X11 | Mar 12 13:49 |
| oiaohm | there is a central authority just completely disreguared. | Mar 12 13:50 |
| oiaohm | Lot of Linux problems are not unique. | Mar 12 13:51 |
| _Hicham_ | I prefer a central authority with a bad model, than a bunch of good stuff here and there | Mar 12 13:51 |
| _Hicham_ | at least we can develop for it | Mar 12 13:52 |
| oiaohm | Look at X11 with the Toolkits. | Mar 12 13:52 |
| _Hicham_ | brb | Mar 12 13:52 |
| oiaohm | Instead of fixing X11 as they should have. People were patching toolkits. | Mar 12 13:52 |
| oiaohm | Sound Servers are the same thing. | Mar 12 13:52 |
| oiaohm | Sooner or later someone will wake up that is impossable to fix in userspace and start work on kernel space and the interfaces between kernel space and userspace as they should have been all along. | Mar 12 13:53 |
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| _Hicham_ | is anyone here? | Mar 12 14:21 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I am | Mar 12 14:22 |
| schestowitz | Just making Bn posts ATM | Mar 12 14:22 |
| _Hicham_ | what is it about? | Mar 12 14:22 |
| schestowitz | The current one about Kodak | Mar 12 14:24 |
| schestowitz | I'll post it now, see if you can find error | Mar 12 14:24 |
| schestowitz | OK, posted now: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03... | Mar 12 14:26 |
| schestowitz | See what you think. | Mar 12 14:26 |
| _Hicham_ | jose was just talking about that | Mar 12 14:30 |
| _Hicham_ | the post is great | Mar 12 14:40 |
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| schestowitz | _Hicham_: thanks, I had a funny feeling about that post | Mar 12 14:43 |
| Eruaran | eeks | Mar 12 14:44 |
| schestowitz | I never rephrase sentences, I just write the thoughts down quickly, then proofread. | Mar 12 14:44 |
| Eruaran | my network is all over the place | Mar 12 14:44 |
| schestowitz | Eruaran: new movel from ASUS (eeK) | Mar 12 14:44 |
| schestowitz | EEK PC... when EEE gets XP. | Mar 12 14:44 |
| schestowitz | Like "WOW", Vista sure sucks. | Mar 12 14:45 |
| schestowitz | Or "EEK", my netbooks slowed down considerably with Windows | Mar 12 14:45 |
| Eruaran | As Bond said in Casino Royale | Mar 12 14:46 |
| Eruaran | "yes... considerably" | Mar 12 14:46 |
| Eruaran | My Kubuntu desktop is rather lively with the notifications | Mar 12 14:47 |
| Eruaran | not in an annoying way though | Mar 12 14:47 |
| Eruaran | UAC is annoying | Mar 12 14:48 |
| Eruaran | KDE 4.2's growl like notifications are rather pleasant since they don't get in your way | Mar 12 14:49 |
| Eruaran | Microsoft copying everything Apple does is so pathetically sad | Mar 12 15:10 |
| Eruaran | Apple could open a retail store and Microsoft would copy them | Mar 12 15:11 |
| Eruaran | oh... wait... | Mar 12 15:11 |
| schestowitz | Yes, exactly | Mar 12 15:14 |
| schestowitz | Becuase Microsoft wants (and needs) to sell h/w | Mar 12 15:14 |
| schestowitz | The peoblem is this | Mar 12 15:14 |
| schestowitz | Shall they choose this path they alienate OEM | Mar 12 15:15 |
| schestowitz | *OEMs | Mar 12 15:15 |
| schestowitz | who then embrace more of Linux, obviously | Mar 12 15:15 |
| schestowitz | Same problem with the rumoured Microsoft Phone | Mar 12 15:15 |
| ha ha, BBC goes through the 123 of getting their very own Winblows botnet http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/program... | Mar 12 15:30 | |
| schestowitz | Yes, I saw that | Mar 12 15:32 |
| schestowitz | Where did you find it? | Mar 12 15:32 |
| schestowitz | Cause I was gonna slam the MSBBC for it | Mar 12 15:32 |
| schestowitz | It's it's widespread by now (criticism), then it ain't worth repeating. | Mar 12 15:32 |
| Slashdot | Mar 12 15:37 | |
| http://it.slashdot.org/articl... | Mar 12 15:37 | |
| schestowitz | Ah, OK | Mar 12 15:38 |
| schestowitz | let's see how they present it | Mar 12 15:38 |
| schestowitz | LOL | Mar 12 15:39 |
| schestowitz | +1 to /. this time (good headline | Mar 12 15:39 |
| schestowitz | http://rss.cnn.com/~r/rss/cnn_te... ( Lawmakers: NASA watchdog lacks bite, needs to go ) | Mar 12 15:53 |
| GOD, Slashdot just front paged this idiot article http://www.businessweek.com/technology/cont... | Mar 12 15:55 | |
| schestowitz | Yuck! Wintel press cited Net Applications (sponsored to lie by Microsoft and Apple) | Mar 12 15:56 |
| schestowitz | They also cite the shills from gartner | Mar 12 15:57 |
| schestowitz | There should really be some sort of overhaul. Microsoft is spreading its money to poison all sorts of talking heads | Mar 12 15:57 |
| schestowitz | "Ray Valdes, research director at Gartner" | Mar 12 15:58 |
| schestowitz | How many contracts are these people doing with Microsoft? | Mar 12 15:58 |
| schestowitz | :-) How many with Mozilla? (Haha. None.) | Mar 12 15:58 |
| schestowitz | BT freezes wages for 100,000 < http://www.theregister.co.u... | Mar 12 16:03 |
| schestowitz | Watch this nonsense about 'netbooks' not being secure (as though security is a hardware issue): http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9... | Mar 12 16:37 |
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| schestowitz | is OLPC dumping WIndows for GNU/Linux :-) http://www.pcworld.com/article/16111... | Mar 12 16:39 |
| MinceR | or for the undead windows ce | Mar 12 16:41 |
| MinceR | or negroponte just wants to have his pockets stuffed again | Mar 12 16:41 |
| schestowitz | Dell Cuts Staff Worldwide < http://www.pcworld.com/article/161114/... > | Mar 12 16:43 |
| schestowitz | /s/undead/dying/ ? | Mar 12 16:44 |
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| schestowitz | Sony is suing because this ad contains its controller: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/h... | Mar 12 17:10 |
| schestowitz | The BBC may indeed be breaking the law: http://www.theregister.co.uk/... | Mar 12 17:15 |
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| schestowitz | Microsoft leaves Office exposed to crackers for another month < http://www.heise.de/english/n... > No hurry, Microsoft. You do well for FOSS. | Mar 12 17:22 |
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| schestowitz | Jose_X asks: "Does anyone know if Intel feeds Microsoft undocumented optimized opcodes for their chips? " | Mar 12 17:32 |
| OLPC goes ARM ... about time. | Mar 12 17:47 | |
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| who cares about opcodes when ACPI lies to you and cripples basic hardware function? | Mar 12 17:49 | |
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| schestowitz | I'm doing a quick post | Mar 12 17:50 |
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| schestowitz | http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/... | Mar 12 17:54 |
| schestowitz | New post. Some background about OLPC there too. | Mar 12 17:55 |
| cool | Mar 12 17:58 | |
| *schestowitz writes about MSBBC quickly | Mar 12 18:03 | |
| Balrog_ | the situation with rambus .... not too good | Mar 12 18:11 |
| schestowitz | More brand-jacking: Open Source Ecology < http://journalwatch.conservationmagazin... > | Mar 12 18:13 |
| schestowitz | Balrog_: I have a post coming about it | Mar 12 18:13 |
| schestowitz | Any news you've seen? | Mar 12 18:13 |
| Balrog_ | http://arstechnica.com/hardware/news/20... | Mar 12 18:13 |
| schestowitz | Other than the fee collection? | Mar 12 18:13 |
| schestowitz | Oh that | Mar 12 18:13 |
| Balrog_ | not really yet | Mar 12 18:13 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I got it | Mar 12 18:13 |
| Balrog_ | well they're still going to appeal | Mar 12 18:14 |
| more cooperation between M$, Cisco and VMware http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/031109... | Mar 12 18:14 | |
| schestowitz | Thanks, i'll add this as a second cite | Mar 12 18:14 |
| schestowitz | I had this for 2 days: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquire... | Mar 12 18:14 |
| Balrog_ | heh ... parallels for mac is better than vmware | Mar 12 18:14 |
| Balrog_ | even vbox is better than vmware on mac | Mar 12 18:15 |
| schestowitz | vmware is msftied | Mar 12 18:15 |
| Balrog_ | vmware (mac) really got slow with 2.0 | Mar 12 18:15 |
| schestowitz | For Win or Linux? | Mar 12 18:16 |
| schestowitz | What can a Mac do that other platforms can't? | Mar 12 18:16 |
| Balrog_ | it has cocoa | Mar 12 18:16 |
| Balrog_ | that's the main difference | Mar 12 18:16 |
| Balrog_ | Cocoa for Linux (GNUStep) is very experimental | Mar 12 18:17 |
| Balrog_ | and few people are working on it. :( | Mar 12 18:17 |
| Balrog_ | And I refuse to use Windows.....so that leaves me with Linux and Mac, both of which I use | Mar 12 18:17 |
| schestowitz | What's the appeal of cocoa? | Mar 12 18:18 |
| Balrog_ | much nicer than X11; easier to work with (IMO) | Mar 12 18:18 |
| schestowitz | There was a guy back in 2002 (IIRC) called Robert Eisenberg who worked on a Linux port | Mar 12 18:18 |
| Balrog_ | GNUStep is the linux port | Mar 12 18:19 |
| Balrog_ | http://www.gnu.org/software/gnustep/ | Mar 12 18:19 |
| schestowitz | He told me he tried to be rewarded with a Mac for the project, so I remember. | Mar 12 18:19 |
| schestowitz | x11 is fine | Mar 12 18:19 |
| Balrog_ | (Cocoa came from NEXTSTEP) | Mar 12 18:19 |
| schestowitz | I know. | Mar 12 18:19 |
| Balrog_ | it's fine but I feel that X11 is bloated and all | Mar 12 18:19 |
| schestowitz | In terms of visual, x is still fantastic | Mar 12 18:19 |
| schestowitz | I absolutely love x forwarding too | Mar 12 18:20 |
| schestowitz | Windows can't bear that | Mar 12 18:20 |
| schestowitz | *beat | Mar 12 18:20 |
| Balrog_ | yeah that's probably one of the better things | Mar 12 18:20 |
| Balrog_ | X-forwarding | Mar 12 18:20 |
| Balrog_ | though my networks aren't fast enough for it | Mar 12 18:20 |
| Balrog_ | :/ | Mar 12 18:20 |
| schestowitz | A lot of stuff I'm doing via ssh | Mar 12 18:20 |
| Balrog_ | I use terminal, text-only | Mar 12 18:20 |
| schestowitz | I use resources rather than 'computer' | Mar 12 18:20 |
| Balrog_ | ? | Mar 12 18:21 |
| Balrog_ | also | Mar 12 18:21 |
| Balrog_ | I like the mach kernel | Mar 12 18:21 |
| Balrog_ | and the way the OS X system is put together (meaning application packages, frameworks, etc) | Mar 12 18:21 |
| balzac | I had some new thoughts re Madoff | Mar 12 18:21 |
| balzac | Who in teh SEC was aiding and abetting his fraud? | Mar 12 18:22 |
| balzac | Aren't public officials held to a higher standard than the rest of us? | Mar 12 18:22 |
| Balrog_ | by the way, why did OLPC ever move to Windows?!??!!? | Mar 12 18:23 |
| balzac | The SEC was given the power and responsibility to regulate the finance industry and they didn't. Nevermind the fact that Madoff was influencing them. | Mar 12 18:23 |
| balzac | Given the fact that the SEC gave Madoff the appearance of legitimacy, doesn't teh federal government then have to accept some responsibility for the losses of Madoff's clients? | Mar 12 18:24 |
| trmanco | http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2... | Mar 12 18:25 |
| balzac | Madoff, the SEC, and whoever from the Holocaust survivor's charity who decided to invest - they all share some of the responsibility for the losses. | Mar 12 18:25 |
| balzac | That was the most offensive part of madoff's scam, the losses suffered by these 80 yr old Holocaust survivors. | Mar 12 18:26 |
| schestowitz | >> by the way, why did OLPC ever move to Windows?!??!!? | Mar 12 18:27 |
| schestowitz | Stranugulation. | Mar 12 18:27 |
| Balrog_ | ?? | Mar 12 18:27 |
| Balrog_ | explain | Mar 12 18:27 |
| balzac | They, along with Madoff's other clients (to varying degrees, depending on their level of awareness of the shadiness of Madoff's business) deserve some bailout because the SEC was aprt of the scame | Mar 12 18:27 |
| schestowitz | See BN | Mar 12 18:27 |
| balzac | scam | Mar 12 18:27 |
| schestowitz | I documented lots of it | Mar 12 18:27 |
| schestowitz | Android to Outsell iPhones by 2012 < http://www.techtree.com/India/News/Androi... > | Mar 12 18:27 |
| Balrog_ | I don't see how windows can work right on a netbook-like machine | Mar 12 18:27 |
| MinceR | i don't see how windows can work right | Mar 12 18:28 |
| MinceR | there, fixed that for you. ;) | Mar 12 18:28 |
| schestowitz | balzac: that's baloney | Mar 12 18:28 |
| schestowitz | Why defend him? | Mar 12 18:28 |
| Balrog_ | well, windows works right on powerful machines | Mar 12 18:28 |
| Balrog_ | for a few months :P | Mar 12 18:28 |
| schestowitz | Give it up. he's the Penguin Man. | Mar 12 18:28 |
| Balrog_ | then it blows up | Mar 12 18:28 |
| balzac | the SEC was a part of it too | Mar 12 18:28 |
| schestowitz | SEC is corrupt | Mar 12 18:29 |
| schestowitz | FTC too | Mar 12 18:29 |
| schestowitz | Majoras and others | Mar 12 18:29 |
| schestowitz | They had conflicting interests | Mar 12 18:29 |
| schestowitz | It's like a fat cat reign of cronies for corporation | Mar 12 18:29 |
| balzac | yeah, so how can Madoff be facing up to 150 years and why are all his clients SOL? | Mar 12 18:29 |
| MinceR | Majora's? :> | Mar 12 18:29 |
| schestowitz | Majoras also let Intel off the hooks despite their crimes | Mar 12 18:29 |
| schestowitz | Deborah Majoras | Mar 12 18:29 |
| balzac | When the SEC helped him do it? | Mar 12 18:29 |
| schestowitz | Do a google searcj | Mar 12 18:30 |
| schestowitz | She's not liked | Mar 12 18:30 |
| schestowitz | She moved to head P&G IIRC... from politics to money | Mar 12 18:30 |
| schestowitz | Then back to 'politics' | Mar 12 18:30 |
| schestowitz | It's like a judge who swaps careers every now and then | Mar 12 18:30 |
| schestowitz | The DOJ is corrupt too | Mar 12 18:30 |
| schestowitz | Barnett is one example | Mar 12 18:30 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft 'employee' (paid by them anyway) | Mar 12 18:30 |
| balzac | not saying madoff should get any bailout, but his clients - maybe so, since the SEC helped to rip them off. | Mar 12 18:30 |
| schestowitz | Then deciding on 'punishing' Microsoft (or not) | Mar 12 18:31 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: you talk anatomy? | Mar 12 18:31 |
| balzac | it's disproportionate punishement meted out on one guy and all the victims of his fraud, meanwhile, AIG is asking for another 30BN? | Mar 12 18:31 |
| balzac | Who from the SEC is on trial right no? | Mar 12 18:32 |
| balzac | now | Mar 12 18:32 |
| schestowitz | They need to overthrow everyone | Mar 12 18:32 |
| schestowitz | Start from scratch | Mar 12 18:32 |
| schestowitz | the system is too polluted by favours | Mar 12 18:32 |
| schestowitz | Waiting to be 'returned' | Mar 12 18:32 |
| schestowitz | Like Barnett | Mar 12 18:32 |
| balzac | What's his name - Tom Delay was insider trading right out of his congressional office. | Mar 12 18:33 |
| schestowitz | balzac: basically... | Mar 12 18:33 |
| schestowitz | The system blew up | Mar 12 18:33 |
| balzac | Senator Frist was trading right out of his office. | Mar 12 18:33 |
| schestowitz | It didn't take account of need for regulation | Mar 12 18:33 |
| schestowitz | And idiots like Milton Friedman promoted this BS | Mar 12 18:34 |
| schestowitz | While debt was mounting | Mar 12 18:34 |
| schestowitz | To unprecedented levels | Mar 12 18:34 |
| balzac | Cheney was getting Halliburton dividends while VP | Mar 12 18:34 |
| schestowitz | Worse than Great Depression levels, by fart | Mar 12 18:34 |
| schestowitz | They should have let it 'blow' up in 2000 | Mar 12 18:34 |
| schestowitz | First bubble burst | Mar 12 18:34 |
| schestowitz | Not prolong the agony | Mar 12 18:34 |
| balzac | Roy, I'm just saying, the public's rage is appeased by a bit of theater. Bernie Madoff is the clown on stage right now. | Mar 12 18:34 |
| schestowitz | With more invasions | Mar 12 18:34 |
| schestowitz | balzac: madoff gets uinfair judgment, i agree | Mar 12 18:35 |
| balzac | The biggest crooks are walking free, as usual. | Mar 12 18:35 |
| schestowitz | Give him chair | Mar 12 18:35 |
| schestowitz | End theagony | Mar 12 18:35 |
| schestowitz | it'll also help many of his victims | Mar 12 18:35 |
| schestowitz | They hanged Saddam | Mar 12 18:35 |
| schestowitz | Some people felt good about it | Mar 12 18:35 |
| balzac | Fine the bejesus out of him, and give him maybe 10 years. | Mar 12 18:35 |
| balzac | Jail Frist, Delay, Bush, Cheney, etc. | Mar 12 18:35 |
| balzac | for life | Mar 12 18:35 |
| schestowitz | balzac: haha. fine him? | Mar 12 18:36 |
| schestowitz | He has no money. | Mar 12 18:36 |
| schestowitz | He owes money to everyone | Mar 12 18:36 |
| balzac | he signed it over to his wife. | Mar 12 18:36 |
| balzac | 70M | Mar 12 18:36 |
| schestowitz | Take it away | Mar 12 18:36 |
| balzac | Roy, the SEC should have to take responsibility for enabling the fraud. | Mar 12 18:36 |
| schestowitz | To fund broadcasting of his last mile | Mar 12 18:36 |
| balzac | Madoff didn't do this all by himself. | Mar 12 18:36 |
| schestowitz | How did the SEC enable it? | Mar 12 18:37 |
| schestowitz | Turning a blind eye? | Mar 12 18:37 |
| schestowitz | How many people? | Mar 12 18:37 |
| balzac | That's why Madoff's victims are owed by the gov to varying degrees. | Mar 12 18:37 |
| schestowitz | Does that judtify him getting a free pass? | Mar 12 18:37 |
| balzac | Roy, Madoff worked very closely with the SEC. | Mar 12 18:37 |
| schestowitz | If you see a child with candy and you can steal it safely, will you? | Mar 12 18:37 |
| balzac | no free pass for madoff, but no 150 years, no electric chair, and no responsibility for the prosecution's claim of 68B | Mar 12 18:38 |
| balzac | maybe billions, but not 68B | Mar 12 18:38 |
| balzac | i don't take candy from children | Mar 12 18:38 |
| schestowitz | So where is justice? | Mar 12 18:38 |
| schestowitz | Balrog_: not you /you/ | Mar 12 18:38 |
| balzac | start with the worst villains | Mar 12 18:38 |
| balzac | Bush and Cheney arguably wrecked our economy. Madoff's ponzi scheme could have been going along quite nicely right now if Bush hadn't robbed us of trillions. | Mar 12 18:39 |
| balzac | so he's one bottom-feeder who's been exposed buy a much bigger crime wave which passed. | Mar 12 18:40 |
| balzac | small fry, relative to the Bush crime family | Mar 12 18:40 |
| balzac | Then, after the worst are brought to justice, there's more slack in the system and Bernie Madoff might be as more of an Ivan Boesky. | Mar 12 18:42 |
| schestowitz | why did he not blow the whistle? | Mar 12 18:42 |
| schestowitz | It's his moral responsibility too | Mar 12 18:42 |
| balzac | But he's been compared to Ted Bundy in the NY Times. | Mar 12 18:42 |
| schestowitz | Fine. | Mar 12 18:42 |
| schestowitz | One killed women | Mar 12 18:42 |
| schestowitz | One robbed billiobs | Mar 12 18:42 |
| schestowitz | *ions | Mar 12 18:42 |
| balzac | I'd rather be a victim of fraud than to be sliced and diced by a cannibal. | Mar 12 18:42 |
| balzac | it's very different | Mar 12 18:42 |
| balzac | I'd rather be the victim of fraud than to have one of Bush's phosphorus bombs melt my skin off, or to be tortured by his goons. | Mar 12 18:44 |
| balzac | I'm just trying to bring some relativity into the discussion. | Mar 12 18:44 |
| schestowitz | Yes, I know. | Mar 12 18:44 |
| balzac | my only new point today is this: where's the culpability of the SEC? Doesn't that mean Madoff's fraud victims are entitled to something? | Mar 12 18:45 |
| balzac | ... | Mar 12 18:45 |
| schestowitz | I've just looked at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Bundy . Chilling :-| | Mar 12 18:46 |
| schestowitz | The anaologies are flaws because of the nature of the crimes, BUT.. | Mar 12 18:47 |
| schestowitz | Damage to society is being weighted too | Mar 12 18:47 |
| balzac | that's too abstract | Mar 12 18:47 |
| schestowitz | Poverty can sometimes agonise more than death | Mar 12 18:47 |
| balzac | tell that to Ted Bundies victims (ghosts) | Mar 12 18:47 |
| schestowitz | /s/flaws/flawed/ | Mar 12 18:47 |
| schestowitz | There are no ghosts ;-) | Mar 12 18:48 |
| balzac | i use ghosts as a rhetorical prop | Mar 12 18:48 |
| schestowitz | Russia Rolls Out Open Source for Government < http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/200... > | Mar 12 18:49 |
| balzac | the ghosts of 1,000,000+ are howling for Bush to join them | Mar 12 18:49 |
| schestowitz | Bush speaks to God | Mar 12 18:49 |
| schestowitz | He says so | Mar 12 18:49 |
| Balrog_ | iPhone 3.0 software will be demoed on Mar. 17 | Mar 12 18:50 |
| Balrog_ | http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/03/1... | Mar 12 18:50 |
| Balrog_ | we'll see how well the engineering has progressed =) | Mar 12 18:51 |
| Balrog_ | and copy-paste, hopefully will be there | Mar 12 18:51 |
| Balrog_ | windows mobile is sooo far behind any of the competitors :P | Mar 12 18:52 |
| schestowitz | Ballmer admits this | Mar 12 18:52 |
| schestowitz | They almost bought RIM | Mar 12 18:52 |
| Balrog_ | is rim interested in selling out? | Mar 12 18:52 |
| schestowitz | Android scales /UP/ | Mar 12 18:53 |
| schestowitz | to notebooks | Mar 12 18:53 |
| schestowitz | The future goes mobile | Mar 12 18:53 |
| schestowitz | Vista is FAT | Mar 12 18:53 |
| Balrog_ | a big problem with RIM is the high 'blackberry internet services' fees | Mar 12 18:53 |
| balzac | I know a guy who has a big clunky phone with windows mobile on it | Mar 12 18:53 |
| schestowitz | It can't scale downwards | Mar 12 18:53 |
| balzac | i pity him | Mar 12 18:53 |
| schestowitz | So Microsoft is in trouble | Mar 12 18:53 |
| Balrog_ | OS X scaled down, android scales up.... | Mar 12 18:53 |
| schestowitz | Win Mobile is stuck in the past, all forked and whatever. | Mar 12 18:53 |
| Balrog_ | put them side-by-side and that's some competition for MS to deal with | Mar 12 18:53 |
| schestowitz | Forked is wrong word to use here | Mar 12 18:53 |
| balzac | borked | Mar 12 18:54 |
| schestowitz | I mean, it's not maintained wiell -- in a modular fashion --wrt Windows. | Mar 12 18:54 |
| schestowitz | balzac: yes, that's the tagline oF "Windows" | Mar 12 18:54 |
| balzac | Windows - It's not ah Toomah! | Mar 12 18:56 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: no, i was referring to a videogame :) | Mar 12 18:57 |
| Balrog_ | windows still has dos-era code, doesn't it? | Mar 12 19:00 |
| balzac | I think the goodness of a programming language can be judged not just on it's capabilities, but on how well its character assignments respect conventions used in human language and mathmatics. | Mar 12 19:02 |
| schestowitz | Balrog_: almost | Mar 12 19:03 |
| schestowitz | Let me find something | Mar 12 19:03 |
| schestowitz | A printer dialogue | Mar 12 19:03 |
| schestowitz | Here: http://blog.loseyourmind.com/?cat=6 | Mar 12 19:04 |
| schestowitz | "Basic font functionality really needs to be updated in the OS. Some of the font related dialogs boxes XP have not been updated since Windows 3.1." | Mar 12 19:04 |
| schestowitz | In Vista! :-) | Mar 12 19:04 |
| MinceR | yesterday's technology at tomorrow's prices | Mar 12 19:04 |
| schestowitz | MS takes Windows 3.11 out of embed to put to bed < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/1... > | Mar 12 19:05 |
| balzac | That probably means wea'll all be dead before XP is retired. | Mar 12 19:11 |
| balzac | http://www.fsdaily.com/HighEnd/Debian_5_... <-- dropped a stinker here | Mar 12 19:11 |
| schestowitz | Citrix and Ignition Partners (former Microsoft employees) assisted the capture of Xen... for Windows. | Mar 12 19:13 |
| Balrog_ | http://linux.slashdot.org/arti... | Mar 12 19:14 |
| Balrog_ | http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/20... | Mar 12 19:15 |
| Balrog_ | French police save $50M euros already by switching to ubuntu | Mar 12 19:15 |
| Balrog_ | "Of the move, Lt. Col. Guimard had this comment: '"Moving from Microsoft XP to Vista would not have brought us many advantages and Microsoft said it would require training of users," said Lt. Col. Guimard. "Moving from XP to Ubuntu, however, proved very easy. The two biggest differences are the icons and the games. Games are not our priority."'"" | Mar 12 19:15 |
| Balrog_ | :) | Mar 12 19:16 |
| balzac | arsetehcnica.com/index.arse | Mar 12 19:16 |
| Balrog_ | ?_? | Mar 12 19:16 |
| balzac | they think they're pretty clever for configuring apache to execute .ars files as php | Mar 12 19:17 |
| balzac | jk | Mar 12 19:17 |
| balzac | good news btw | Mar 12 19:18 |
| Balrog_ | lol | Mar 12 19:18 |
| Balrog_ | yeah | Mar 12 19:18 |
| MinceR | i hope i won't be dead before xp is retired | Mar 12 19:18 |
| *Omar87 (n=omar@94.249.100.127) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 12 19:18 | |
| MinceR | it needs to be retired with the rest of the company. | Mar 12 19:19 |
| Balrog_ | yeah | Mar 12 19:20 |
| Balrog_ | though maybe part of the company could be salvaged | Mar 12 19:20 |
| balzac | yeah, the marketing department | Mar 12 19:23 |
| Balrog_ | well they're flight simulator products were some of the best ... though they already scrapped that :( | Mar 12 19:24 |
| balzac | Steve Ballmer has a career ahead as a carnival barker | Mar 12 19:25 |
| MinceR | they also destroyed Ensemble. | Mar 12 19:25 |
| *Smari (n=spm@194-144-97-93.du.xdsl.is) has joined #Boycottnovell | Mar 12 19:25 | |
| MinceR | ballmer should have a career ahead in penal servitude | Mar 12 19:27 |
| Balrog_ | it's interesting that the Halo game series was originally for Mac | Mar 12 19:27 |
| schestowitz | Bungie bailed out, I thinkg | Mar 12 19:27 |
| Balrog_ | then MS bought them out | Mar 12 19:27 |
| Balrog_ | (Bungie) | Mar 12 19:27 |
| schestowitz | They dissented. | Mar 12 19:27 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft screwed them | Mar 12 19:27 |
| MinceR | but it was called Marathon back then, wasn't it? | Mar 12 19:27 |
| MinceR | (Marathon has already been ported to linux btw) | Mar 12 19:27 |
| Balrog_ | no, that came before | Mar 12 19:28 |
| schestowitz | Gotta go now | Mar 12 19:28 |
| Balrog_ | k | Mar 12 19:28 |
| Balrog_ | write about french police dept | Mar 12 19:28 |
| Omar87 | Hi | Mar 12 19:30 |
| balzac | the new version of Fedora is named Leonidas | Mar 12 19:35 |
| balzac | If giant, bearded, oily warriors is your thing, pick up the next Fedora | Mar 12 19:35 |
| balzac | jk | Mar 12 19:35 |
| Smari | Ubuntu for me thanks. | Mar 12 19:36 |
| balzac | I'm going to have to make fun of that a little bit though | Mar 12 19:36 |
| balzac | it's too funny | Mar 12 19:36 |
| balzac | http://www.fsdaily.com/EndU... | Mar 12 19:36 |
| balzac | apparently, lots of fanboys who remember 300 are flocking to Fedora code-name Leonidas | Mar 12 19:36 |
| Balrog_ | another thing | Mar 12 19:37 |
| Balrog_ | Apple offered OS X for no-cost for OLPC | Mar 12 19:37 |
| Balrog_ | why are they going with MS Windows then? | Mar 12 19:37 |
| Balrog_ | if they don't want Linux, OS X is certainly better than Windows... | Mar 12 19:38 |
| Smari | Because Nick did a deal with M$. | Mar 12 19:39 |
| Smari | The OLPC camp isn't very happy with Negroponte. | Mar 12 19:39 |
| Balrog_ | I see. | Mar 12 19:39 |
| Balrog_ | doesn't look good =( | Mar 12 19:39 |
| Smari | They had a fairly massive split about a year ago.. several core people split. | Mar 12 19:40 |
| Balrog_ | I see. | Mar 12 19:40 |
| Balrog_ | do you think Negroponte will stay with the project? | Mar 12 19:40 |
| Smari | Dunno. Hope not. But there's enough stuff going on in the grassroots that it doesn't really matter what he's doing except on the hardware side. | Mar 12 19:41 |
| Balrog_ | ok. | Mar 12 19:41 |
| Smari | Check this out: http://blog.fablab.af/ | Mar 12 19:42 |
| Smari | Under the "Afghanistan: Fab & OLPC trial" thing. | Mar 12 19:42 |
| Balrog_ | what I don't get is that they refuse no-cost OS X because it's not fully FOSS, then they go to Windows, which is zero-foss (OS X has parts that are FOSS) | Mar 12 19:42 |
| Balrog_ | someone should comment about ubuntu vs. windows | Mar 12 19:43 |
| Balrog_ | 'the rest of the world uses windows'... | Mar 12 19:44 |
| Smari | *sigh* | Mar 12 19:45 |
| Balrog_ | "For the Flight franchise, P-12C ( Paul Lange, lead designer for FS 11 ) replied on this thread that the team asked if they could buy the IP and spin out, and was refused." | Mar 12 19:45 |
| Balrog_ | about flight simulator | Mar 12 19:46 |
| trmanco | Firefox still has ore market share that all the IE's combined on W3schools | Mar 12 19:47 |
| trmanco | more* | Mar 12 19:47 |
| trmanco | http://www.w3schools.com/browse... | Mar 12 19:48 |
| trmanco | 4% of W3schools visitors are Linux users | Mar 12 19:48 |
| Balrog_ | and 60% of servers run linux | Mar 12 19:49 |
| Balrog_ | (according to ballmer) | Mar 12 19:50 |
| balzac | http://www.oteltours.com/fedor... | Mar 12 19:50 |
| trmanco | "Its performance suffers from the use of Mono, though: startup times are elongated as the program pulls in various Mono runtime libraries. If you regularly run other Mono programs on your desktop this isn't a big deal, as you'll normally have the relevant libraries already loaded into RAM." | Mar 12 19:55 |
| trmanco | http://www.tuxradar.com/content/group-te... | Mar 12 19:55 |
| balzac | http://www.oteltours.com/fedor... | Mar 12 19:56 |
| balzac | please, someone tell me that's not funny. | Mar 12 19:56 |
| balzac | I've got to paste that link in #fedora... | Mar 12 19:57 |
| balzac | tag along if you want to see the reaction | Mar 12 19:57 |
| trmanco | LOOOL | Mar 12 19:58 |
| trmanco | This is Fedoraaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | Mar 12 19:58 |
| balzac | 20:08 -!- balzac was kicked from #fedora by Southern_Gentlem [Southern_Gentlem] | Mar 12 20:01 |
| balzac | I couldn't resist, it was just too funny | Mar 12 20:01 |
| balzac | ok, the joke's over and the pictures are coming down | Mar 12 20:03 |
| Ah, Sparta and the old South, fighting for the freedom to keep slaves. | Mar 12 20:03 | |
| balzac | I thought the movie 300 was in bad taste | Mar 12 20:08 |
| balzac | A quote from Leonidas, 300: "Persian cowards." | Mar 12 20:09 |
| balzac | the film was released in 2006 when Bush & Cheney were trying to widen the Iraq war into Iran. | Mar 12 20:09 |
| *_Hicham_ (n=hicham@41.249.24.16) has joined #boycottnovell | Mar 12 20:10 | |
| balzac | so it's a little bit jingoistic as a pop-culture reference to code-name Fedora 10 "Leonidas" | Mar 12 20:10 |
| balzac | Course I never even saw the movie because I saw "Braveheart" a long time ago and it looks similar enough. | Mar 12 20:11 |
| balzac | https://usshop.ubuntu.com/training.php?catid=5 <-- Ubuntu is reaching out with gay-oriented marketing as well | Mar 12 20:15 |
| balzac | nothing wrong with that, but I prefer booth babes to booth-dudes. | Mar 12 20:16 |
| _Hicham_ | me too, I prefer babes | Mar 12 20:17 |
| _Hicham_ | is Mark ShuttleWorth gay or what? | Mar 12 20:17 |
| balzac | no idea | Mar 12 20:18 |
| balzac | not curious | Mar 12 20:18 |
| balzac | but odds are, not, just based on statistics | Mar 12 20:18 |
| _Hicham_ | it would have been more attractive if they have showed a guy with a girl | Mar 12 20:19 |
| balzac | you never know who or how that marketing material got made. the photographer could have been a chick who really doesn't see anything suggestive at all there. | Mar 12 20:19 |
| balzac | "i do it with ubuntu" | Mar 12 20:19 |
| balzac | _Hicham_: to each their own. | Mar 12 20:19 |
| _Hicham_ | so they fuck ubuntu together :)? | Mar 12 20:20 |
| balzac | but it might make the job of marketing Ubuntu slightly more complicated by virtue of the niche-market appeal of that advertisement | Mar 12 20:20 |
| balzac | same with Fedora 10 (code name Leonidas) | Mar 12 20:21 |
| MinceR | isn't that 11? | Mar 12 20:21 |
| _Hicham_ | does it have the same ad? | Mar 12 20:21 |
| balzac | big, greasy, half-naked, bearded guy "This is FEDORAAAA!!!" | Mar 12 20:21 |
| balzac | okay... | Mar 12 20:21 |
| _Hicham_ | where is this ad? | Mar 12 20:22 |
| balzac | which? | Mar 12 20:23 |
| _Hicham_ | fedora's one | Mar 12 20:23 |
| balzac | well, I made my own to make fun of the code name "Leonidas" | Mar 12 20:24 |
| balzac | I'll put it on the server again, just for laughs. | Mar 12 20:24 |
| _Hicham_ | what does "Leonidas" mean? | Mar 12 20:24 |
| balzac | http://www.oteltours.com/fedora_le... | Mar 12 20:24 |
| balzac | spartan king, featured most recently and prominently in the movie 300 from 2006 | Mar 12 20:25 |
| _Hicham_ | weird ad | Mar 12 20:26 |
| balzac | it's funny | Mar 12 20:27 |
| balzac | https://usshop.ubuntu.com/tra... <-- but this one is real | Mar 12 20:27 |
| balzac | as I said before, not a damn thing wrong with it... just not personally appealing | Mar 12 20:28 |
| _Hicham_ | posting a guy and a girl is more attractive, since both sexes will be targeted | Mar 12 20:30 |
| balzac | probably better for general appeal | Mar 12 20:35 |
| PetoKraus | "to load either Linux or a full Windows OS" | Mar 12 20:47 |
| PetoKraus | you mean, virii and *ware, and all? | Mar 12 20:47 |
| PetoKraus | windows on ARM | Mar 12 20:47 |
| PetoKraus | Lol | Mar 12 20:47 |
| PetoKraus | :) | Mar 12 20:47 |
| *_Hicham_ has quit ("Leaving.") | Mar 12 20:54 | |
| "Ubuntu is reaching out with gay-oriented marketing as well" People see what they want. Who keeps making this homosexual stuff up? | Mar 12 21:01 | |
| Nothing but crap shill articles in the news about Vista. | Mar 12 21:10 | |
| balzac | twitter: it's pretty suggestive. | Mar 12 21:11 |
| Ina Fried, someone at Tech Crunch who says, "I'm not a Microsoft apologist" and goes right on to tell us all about how M$ got things right with Vista, sickening. | Mar 12 21:11 | |
| balzac | "I do it with Ubuntu" | Mar 12 21:12 |
| there are plenty of other images on their store pages all with the same t-shirt | Mar 12 21:12 | |
| balzac | I live in NYC where there is a large gay community | Mar 12 21:12 |
| balzac | you don't see that kind of chumminess unless dudes are gay, generally... | Mar 12 21:13 |
| The netbook lie is now, " analysts say no more than 15 to 20 percent of netbooks are running Linux" | Mar 12 21:13 | |
| balzac | that and the shirt... | Mar 12 21:13 |
| yeah, people in NYC are kind of stand off. those two are not very "chummy" as far as things go | Mar 12 21:14 | |
| no body contact, like uptight kids at a high school prom | Mar 12 21:14 | |
| the image is all clean and corporate to me | Mar 12 21:15 | |
| balzac | dude, the clubs are packed with dudes | Mar 12 21:15 |
| balzac | you get pretty unfriendly towards other dudes after a few saturdays fighting for elbow room in NY clubs | Mar 12 21:15 |
| Somehow, I don't see those two at a NYC club. | Mar 12 21:15 | |
| or at any far less crowded club in New Orleans. | Mar 12 21:16 | |
| balzac | somehow, they look a little too happy together not to be suggestive, and with the writing on the shirts... | Mar 12 21:17 |
| balzac | not saying it's bad, just saying it's niche-market | Mar 12 21:17 |
| the bald guy's smile is a little leering but it's probably just a camera face | Mar 12 21:17 | |
| you've read intentions into the image | Mar 12 21:17 | |
| balzac | camera's can catch you at a funny moment | Mar 12 21:18 |
| balzac | no, i'm not saying it was intended either, just the effect | Mar 12 21:18 |
| balzac | this is just one of many such ads, most of them being people of varying age, gender, ethnicity | Mar 12 21:18 |
| this is the only one anyone has ever pointed to and called "gay" from Ubuntu | Mar 12 21:19 | |
| balzac | But here's one factor to consider - IT is dominated as an industry by dudes, most of whom are straight, so it might be a little bit of a marketing flub if general appeal is the intention. | Mar 12 21:19 |
