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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: March 17th, 2009 - Part 1

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_Hicham_oiaohm : explainMar 17 00:03
oiaohmIf you go down to NT basic design.  Its not a desktop or a server kernel.   Its a RTOS kernel that has been damaged over the years so it no longer works perfectly.Mar 17 00:04
oiaohmThird party patches exist to use NT style OS's realtime.Mar 17 00:04
_Hicham_didn't know thatMar 17 00:05
_Hicham_NT for realtime...Mar 17 00:05
Balrog_this apple ipod 'drm' chip thing is getting wierderMar 17 00:06
Balrog_http://i.gizmodo.com/5170797/confirm...Mar 17 00:06
oiaohmBiggest thing that has stuffed NT up from running will accross multiable cores also destoryed it realtime support too _Hicham_Mar 17 00:06
Balrog_Update 2: Joel @ BBG says he spoke to Apple, and they denied the fact that there's any encryption or authentication in the chip. What's also interesting is that another tipster says the chip is relatively easy to clone (a fact Apple strangely corroborates), meaning the reason why the manufacturers are licensing and using Apple's version is most likely to get to market as fast as possible to beat their competitors. And, because they like the fact thMar 17 00:06
Balrog_Update 3: Spoke to someone else at V-Moda, and they assured me that it was not an authentication chip, but a control chip as part of the "made for iPod" program that they receive from Apple. They've also got no plans to go and duplicate the functionality without the "made for iPod" label, as is probably the case with all other major manufacturers.Mar 17 00:06
Balrog_<< quoteMar 17 00:06
Balrog_over-reaction this time????Mar 17 00:07
oiaohmMaybe.Mar 17 00:09
oiaohmIt might not be a DRM chip but it might be the chip apple pulles there device id information from.Mar 17 00:10
Balrog_I hope so. If it is, this should be an indication to the EFF and related groups/media not to overreact.Mar 17 00:10
Balrog_I'm thinking it's some sort of pulse-encoding chipMar 17 00:10
oiaohmDRM depends on device id of someform.Mar 17 00:10
Balrog_encodes button presses into signals that won't get distorted by music or noiseMar 17 00:11
Balrog_They deny it has any form of authenticationMar 17 00:11
Balrog_it's only "control"Mar 17 00:11
oiaohmDoes the device have a software extractable serial number.Mar 17 00:11
oiaohmIe not doing the authentication.   Providing the information for authentication is what I am thinking.Mar 17 00:12
oiaohmControl device would be a good place to put it where a person cannot replace it without stuffing the complete unit.Mar 17 00:12
oiaohmHeck it where I would put it if I could not embed it in the cpu.Mar 17 00:14
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Balrog_oiaohm: yes, it sure does (the hardware SN is burned in ROM)Mar 17 00:14
Balrog_<< Does the device have a software extractable serial number.Mar 17 00:15
Balrog_"Control device would be a good place to put it where a person cannot replace it without stuffing the complete unit." ...Mar 17 00:15
oiaohmThere you go then why does the device need to provide a serial number if its only a keyboard.Mar 17 00:15
Balrog_It would be *stupid* to put the SN in the headphonesMar 17 00:16
Balrog_is the device providing the serial number? do you know?Mar 17 00:16
Balrog_(to the headphones)Mar 17 00:16
oiaohmDepends how big of a prick you want to be Balrog_Mar 17 00:16
oiaohmPerson must use the same headphones to play there music would kinda drive them up wall.Mar 17 00:17
Balrog_what I don't like is that groups like the EFF jump to conclusions without proofMar 17 00:17
Balrog_oiaohm: that's true right now .... once they reverse engineer the control scheme, won't be true anymoreMar 17 00:17
Balrog_shouldn't be more than a few weeksMar 17 00:17
Balrog_another tipster says the chip is relatively easy to clone (a fact Apple strangely corroborates)Mar 17 00:17
Balrog_<< quoteMar 17 00:18
oiaohmA rom is really ease to clone too.Mar 17 00:18
Balrog_<< they denied the fact that there's any encryption or authentication in the chipMar 17 00:18
oiaohmRemember the old quake network where two ids the same would lock both users out.Mar 17 00:18
Balrog_how is that relevant here?Mar 17 00:19
oiaohmHaving a id on chip is not encryption or authentication processing.Mar 17 00:19
oiaohmI am looking at the chip as providing the id for the authentication system.Mar 17 00:19
Balrog_what will the id do on the chip? The SN can't be in the headphones, for obvious reasonsMar 17 00:19
Balrog_(lose them and .....?)Mar 17 00:19
Balrog_you mean password-based authentication? That's still an authentication chipMar 17 00:20
oiaohmNo.Mar 17 00:20
Balrog_it's part of the authentication systemMar 17 00:20
oiaohmTake windows genuine advantage one of the most hated drm systems.Mar 17 00:20
oiaohmIt extracts serial numbers from stack of different devices to build it system id.Mar 17 00:21
oiaohmserial numbers software extractable are the base to lot of DRM engines.Mar 17 00:21
Balrog_how do you guarantee that any 'official' headphones will work?Mar 17 00:21
Balrog_oiaohm: did you hear of the itunes gift card codes being brokenMar 17 00:22
Balrog_and fake cards being sold in china?Mar 17 00:22
oiaohmSame way as XP.  There are like 5 key devices XP uses.Mar 17 00:22
oiaohmcpu motherboard videocard harddrive  and network card.Mar 17 00:23
oiaohmNow if 1 of them is non functional or changed the drm still works.Mar 17 00:23
oiaohmIe some people with broken ipods might find everything keeps on working until they change headphones.Mar 17 00:24
oiaohmKey reducency.  Would make sence to put in multiable keys.   Also could be used in future for transfering music between devices.  Ie plug you head phones into a different ipod to id it as you.Mar 17 00:25
oiaohmThere are many ways to use serial numbers in a DRM system.Mar 17 00:25
oiaohmKey to DRM is id user threw some means.  Problem is no system of that is impossable.Mar 17 00:26
oiaohmitunes breached gift cards could have been blocked a lot sooner.  I hope that explains it for you Balrog_Mar 17 00:27
Balrog_oiaohm: that kind of DRM is inconvenientMar 17 00:27
Balrog_sure they couldMar 17 00:27
Balrog_(meaning "Ie plug you head phones into a different ipod to id it as you.")Mar 17 00:27
oiaohmImportant question is why does head phones need an exposed serial number.Mar 17 00:28
Balrog_the only reason you'd id it as you is if you're transferring protected music to itMar 17 00:28
Balrog_do the headphones *have* an exposed serial number?Mar 17 00:28
Balrog_the device (ipod) doesMar 17 00:28
Balrog_but the headphones? no one has verified itMar 17 00:29
oiaohmSome usb headphones on windows do.Mar 17 00:29
Balrog_then we have to wait until an EE or someone with that kind of experience reverses the protocolMar 17 00:30
Balrog_I'm sure it will be quick; the headphones-industry is probably already working on it :PMar 17 00:30
oiaohmBasically the id's to make up DRM can basically be placed anywhere.Mar 17 00:30
oiaohmPerferabley in locations that changing will destroy the system.Mar 17 00:30
Balrog_sure they can....but *are they?*Mar 17 00:31
oiaohmInside CPU is the most prized locationMar 17 00:31
Balrog_yes. The Wii has keys burned inside the CPU on first run in factoryMar 17 00:31
oiaohmNext is inside GPU and screens.Mar 17 00:31
Balrog_(actually not CPU, but GPU.Mar 17 00:31
Balrog_)Mar 17 00:31
Balrog_it has a system where an ARM core in the GPU boots the systemMar 17 00:32
Balrog_*wiiMar 17 00:32
Balrog_HDCP works like that?Mar 17 00:32
oiaohmHDCP yes uses deencryption screen side.Mar 17 00:32
Balrog_so I thought.Mar 17 00:32
oiaohmBasically the more crippling the location to change you can put it the better.Mar 17 00:33
Balrog_Yes.Mar 17 00:33
oiaohmkeyboards mice and headphones are kinda well done the list.Mar 17 00:33
Balrog_but why would DRM be necessary in headphones?Mar 17 00:33
Balrog_its analog; anyone can cut the headphone wires and solder a jack to the endMar 17 00:34
Balrog_(who knows how to solder :P )Mar 17 00:34
oiaohmCould be watermarking.Mar 17 00:34
Balrog_I don't think that tiny chip is powerful enough to do that.Mar 17 00:34
Balrog_watermarking in an identifiable way is quite complicated; better suited for the device, not the headphonesMar 17 00:35
oiaohmSo that everything played threw that headphone has something hidden in what sounds like minor interference that ids it.Mar 17 00:35
Balrog_watermarking to the headphone is stupid, as headphones are easily discardedMar 17 00:35
oiaohmIts more court evidence.Mar 17 00:35
oiaohmso if the device and the headphone both watermark you know when you have the complete kit what was providing the illegal source.Mar 17 00:36
oiaohmThere are many things they could be doing detecting watermarking when you don't know the method is really hard.Mar 17 00:37
oiaohmThe different between watermark and minor quaility problems can be nothing when inspecting audio output.Mar 17 00:38
oiaohmWatermaking only needs a powerful chip if what it doing is not locked in stone when the device was produced.Mar 17 00:38
Balrog_but headphones don't last forever, and people replace them very often.Mar 17 00:39
Balrog_oiaohm: all of this is pure theoryMar 17 00:43
Balrog_until someone reverses the chip's workings, it won't be knownMar 17 00:43
oiaohmAs you can now see not enough reseach is done yet to see one way or the other.Mar 17 00:44
oiaohmApple saying no not that does not cover everything.Mar 17 00:44
Balrog_yes, because the product is so new.Mar 17 00:45
Balrog_yes, what Apple is saying doesn't cover everything, but what the EFF said was alarmistMar 17 00:45
Balrog_and without much evidence.Mar 17 00:45
Balrog_very bad for publicityMar 17 00:45
Balrog_(for the EFF that is)Mar 17 00:53
schestowitzHey, Glenn Beck! < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1... >Mar 17 00:58
balzacbeck is such a swineMar 17 01:00
balzacactually though, i should not insult any animal by comparing glenn beckkk to themMar 17 01:01
schestowitzWhy do they have 'em on TV?Mar 17 01:02
schestowitzO'Reilly tooMar 17 01:02
Balrog_limbaugh is worseMar 17 01:02
Balrog_:(Mar 17 01:02
schestowitzMaking a "Jesusland" as some people call itMar 17 01:02
schestowitzA nation whole president is driven by Gods tooMar 17 01:03
balzacbecause certain closet-nazis also happen to be billionairesMar 17 01:03
schestowitzIt's very scaryMar 17 01:03
balzacso they shell out $50M to each of these hate-propagandistsMar 17 01:03
schestowitzA nation whose military budget exceeds by far all other nations' _combined_. And wars are driven by religion to an extent.Mar 17 01:03
balzacThere ought to be a vampire hunter to find the billionaire patrons who fund these hate-mongersMar 17 01:04
schestowitzbalzac: they get 'em cheapMar 17 01:04
balzacand drive a bloody stake through his vampire heart!Mar 17 01:04
schestowitzConsider how much money Exxon can make when the 'intellectual' (pseudos) lead the country to war against places like Iran.Mar 17 01:04
balzacWell, Simon Weisenthal couldn't find them all. They stashed away a lot of gold, and that is what funds Glenn Beck, Limbaugh, and others.Mar 17 01:05
schestowitzThis one's even stronger (language warning): Links 16/03/2009: Cloudera Debuts, OpenOffice.org 3.0.x Approaches 50 Million DownloadsMar 17 01:05
balzacIt's the old nazi gold stash.Mar 17 01:05
balzacof course now they pretend to embrace Israel, but all of their fake "support" for Israel actually undermines Israeli national security and increases tension with their neighbors.Mar 17 01:06
balzacNetinyahu is praised by guys like Bush, Limbaugh and Beck. That's a signal that Israeli foreign policy is not on track.Mar 17 01:07
schestowitzYuckMar 17 01:08
schestowitzThe guys is a criminalMar 17 01:08
schestowitzBribes and all.Mar 17 01:08
balzacI was hoping livni would get controlMar 17 01:09
schestowitzYou know countries head the wrong way when they vote for consMar 17 01:09
schestowitzYou probably know these politics better than IMar 17 01:09
schestowitzAll I know is that, as you say, all those war mongers are causing a conflict that's unnecessaryMar 17 01:09
balzacbut the old sith lord, shimon peres couldn't let a woman be prime ministerMar 17 01:09
balzacLivni got more votes than NetinyahuMar 17 01:10
schestowitz"Clash of Civilisation," as Said calls itMar 17 01:10
schestowitz*sationsMar 17 01:10
balzacI know Israeli politics like a redsox fan knows baseball. (mild exaggeration)Mar 17 01:10
schestowitzWell, if a crooks runs this country, this says a lot where it's goingMar 17 01:11
balzacThe problem is that the christian fundies are influencing Israeli politicsMar 17 01:11
schestowitzBut anyway, it's OT, I guess. more like -socialMar 17 01:11
balzacyeahMar 17 01:12
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balzacI just learned a new shortcutMar 17 01:12
balzacctrl alt f1 for a terminalMar 17 01:12
balzacctrl alt f7 for return to window managerMar 17 01:12
balzacI wonder if I can toggle between several logged in users with the function keysMar 17 01:14
schestowitzgnMar 17 01:17
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oiaohmYes you can balzac but I don't recommend doing it a lot unless you are using video drivers taht are Nvidia's until dri 2 becomes common on everything elseMar 17 02:08
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twitteruser switching works great with nv and other free drivers.Mar 17 02:29
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twitterkicker's got "start new session" right on the root menu.  It generally goes to vt8, reached via alt-f8Mar 17 02:31
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twitterCalifornia uber M$ http://tech.slashdot.or...Mar 17 02:58
twitterthere's an effort doomed to fail.Mar 17 02:58
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zer0c00l"each academic year we *reward* and recognize the most talented students from around the world for their *dedication*,*passion* and involvement with microsoft" http://student-partners.com/Mar 17 04:20
zer0c00lyet another m$ brain washed kid :( http://micro-touch.blogspot.com/Mar 17 04:21
zer0c00lMicrosoft Dreamspark is for now High schools in india http://micro-touch.blogspot.com/2009/03/m...Mar 17 04:22
zer0c00lHigh schools is the place where Gnu/Linux adoption is more in indiaMar 17 04:22
zer0c00lhttp://dreamsparkindia.com/drea... (Microsoft and MTV tie up to get the youth addicted)Mar 17 04:27
zer0c00lhttp://www.sakshat.ac.in I dont know whether its a educational institution or not they are supporting dream sparkMar 17 04:35
amarsh04don't worry, I've seen students in South Australia getting excited about getting discounts on M$ development tools when the GNU equivalents are FREEMar 17 04:50
zer0c00lyaMar 17 04:51
zer0c00l:-)Mar 17 04:51
amarsh04there are good free IDE's for Ada and Java and PascalMar 17 04:52
zer0c00lEclipse ?Mar 17 04:53
amarsh04and GRASP for Java, GNAT-GPS for AdaMar 17 04:53
*zer0c00l looksMar 17 04:53
amarsh04www.jgrasp.orgMar 17 04:54
zer0c00lyeahMar 17 04:55
amarsh04but the ability to program using nothing more than vi and gcc is also goodMar 17 04:55
zer0c00l:-)Mar 17 04:56
*zer0c00l agreesMar 17 04:56
*zer0c00l downloads jgrasp :)Mar 17 04:56
zer0c00lhttp://spider.eng.auburn.edu/user-cgi...   " Please do not redistribute jGRASP (except within a single organization) without approval. " is it licensed under GPL?Mar 17 04:58
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zer0c00lMalicious spam attacks again http://www.f-secure.com/web...Mar 17 05:21
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zer0c00lg2gMar 17 06:06
zer0c00ltime for boring theory classesMar 17 06:06
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schestowitzHeyMar 17 07:57
kentma1hi folksMar 17 08:24
schestowitzMorning, kentma1 Mar 17 08:24
kentma1hi schestowitzMar 17 08:36
kentma1I might have 2 days leave this week - yay!Mar 17 08:36
schestowitzCool!Mar 17 08:44
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MinceRgeekingsMar 17 09:08
schestowitzAll your albums are[sic] belong to Google Ads: Google Adds AdWords to Picasa < http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/... >Mar 17 09:10
zoobab015B5BMar 17 09:14
schestowitzFormer Newspaper Journalists Not Missing A Beat < http://techdirt.com/articles/2... >Mar 17 09:15
schestowitzzoobab01: check out http://www.pcworld.com/article/161348/ni... and http://www.pcworld.com/article/161294/...Mar 17 09:16
schestowitzWhite-collar crime runs rampant while they spend time chasing this: http://techdirt.com/articles/... (Feds Ask For Jailtime For GNR File Sharer)Mar 17 09:20
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oiaohmGood that joystick patent is gone.Mar 17 09:28
oiaohmLinux on PS3 is getting more useful now that using memory in the graphic controller is possiable.Mar 17 09:32
zoobab01http://press.ffii.org/Press_releases/...Mar 17 09:34
oiaohmhttp://www.cyrius.com/debian/kir...  << Could add new meaning to were did I leave that server.Mar 17 09:38
schestowitzzoobab01: alarmist or true?Mar 17 09:49
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oiaohmPossiable true.Mar 17 10:28
oiaohmIn theory software patents could be validated by a court test case without any Parliament involement.Mar 17 10:29
schestowitzI'm writing about this quickly.Mar 17 10:30
oiaohmEverything else has failed to get software patents up.  Try the legal back door.Mar 17 10:30
oiaohmThen everyone would have to get got uninited to vote it down.Mar 17 10:31
oiaohmUsing the back door European Parliament can still out law it.Mar 17 10:31
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schestowitzzoobab01: The FFII alerts that the EPO is trying to legalise software patents: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/17/...Mar 17 11:05
schestowitzGavin Clarke goes on the attack on Opera right now (defending Microsoft and Silver Lie, as expected). Where did The Register pick these people up??Mar 17 11:31
schestowitz"Microsoft’s fledgling Azure Services platform, a beta offering that offers cloud computing services, suffered a 22 hour outage this weekend. " http://www.liveside.net/main/archive/...Mar 17 11:35
schestowitzWeb scam hoodwinks web founding father < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2... >Mar 17 11:36
schestowitzamarsh04__: HP skims another 10% off some EDS workers' pay packets < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/... >. At least the CEO doesn't take bonuses?Mar 17 11:37
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schestowitzInteresting question: Would You Use Linux If It Were Just Another Proprietary OS? < http://www.linuxloop.com/news/2009/03/12/w... >Mar 17 12:06
MinceRit kind of leaves what "linux" would be then undefinedMar 17 12:13
MinceRwould *bsd-s be free software in that hypothetical world?Mar 17 12:13
MinceR(assuming that linux could be what it is while being proprietary, which it couldn't)Mar 17 12:13
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kentma1just seen a fascinating white paper showing the carrier grade ethernet - PBB-TE is about 50% of the cost of an MPLS network to do the same thing...Mar 17 12:27
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oiaohmIn some fields Linux is used because its opensource and can be altered to task.Mar 17 12:27
oiaohmSo proprietary would kill of lot of Linux advantages.Mar 17 12:28
kentma1and you can do pbb-te on linux :-)Mar 17 12:28
oiaohmhttp://mpls-linux.sourceforge.net/  You can also do MPLS on Linux.Mar 17 12:31
oiaohmMakes a good bridge between the two.Mar 17 12:31
schestowitzMaybe GNU/Linux appeal comes from this too: Is There a Reverse Network Effect with Scale? < http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/is_th... >Mar 17 12:43
schestowitzTwitter Now Growing at a Staggering 1,382 Percent < http://mashable.com/2009/03/1... >Mar 17 12:45
oiaohmYes the Reverse Network Effect applies to Linux.Mar 17 12:45
oiaohmReason why the maintainers network was formed in Linux to combat the problem in the kernel project schestowitzMar 17 12:46
schestowitzSA for FOSS: Government CIOs keen on open source software  < http://www.tectonic.co.za/?p=4366 >Mar 17 12:49
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schestowitzHmmmmmm.... Police station bombed in Tibetan area of China < http://www.iht.com/articles/2009... >Mar 17 12:53
oiaohmOk that expains it.  I was reading SA as South Australia.Mar 17 12:53
schestowitzNew South Wales....Mar 17 12:55
schestowitzWhy ZDNet sucks? Murphy can't even spell the product he writes about: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Murphy/?p=1549 (it's not "PostgresSQL")Mar 17 12:59
oiaohmThats another state.Mar 17 12:59
schestowitzhe can't spell Ubuntu eitherMar 17 12:59
schestowitzHe writes Redhat and UbantuMar 17 12:59
oiaohmOf course not.Mar 17 12:59
oiaohmCannot spell competition right or people might be able to search for it.Mar 17 13:00
schestowitzHaha!Mar 17 13:00
zer0c00lZdnet? its microsofts press right?Mar 17 13:00
schestowitzSort ofMar 17 13:00
schestowitzSee yesterday's post about Ziff-David (in BN)Mar 17 13:00
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/...Mar 17 13:00
schestowitz“A verbal memo [no email allowed] was passed around the MS campus encouraging MS employee’s to post to ZDNet articles like this one,” the email said. < http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/... >Mar 17 13:01
oiaohmRedhat appears to be arming for a war.Mar 17 13:09
oiaohmBy there patent move.Mar 17 13:09
schestowitzI'm not sureMar 17 13:12
schestowitzWhat type of war can this be? Patent trolls? Microsoft? I doubt it, yet.Mar 17 13:13
oiaohmRedhat is still on time table to reenter the battle for desktop.Mar 17 13:17
oiaohmWhen they do it will most likely cause some conflits.Mar 17 13:17
oiaohmRedhats plan for desktop is complete.Mar 17 13:17
oiaohmfreeipa to manage clients.  Virtualisation to run windows.  Central server support for running applications.  Means to transfer applications between machines...  And the list goes on.Mar 17 13:17
MinceRzer0c00l: afaik microsoft has many "press" companies working for them alreadyMar 17 13:18
MinceRzdnet, idc/idg, dunno what elseMar 17 13:18
zer0c00lMinceR: okMar 17 13:18
MinceRi suspect RH wants to counter patent threats to themselves by patent threats of their own.Mar 17 13:19
oiaohmRedhat is following the IBM model.Mar 17 13:21
oiaohmOf patent aquirement.Mar 17 13:21
oiaohmBasically protect something you need by placing patents around it so if anyone trys to attack you on it they have steped on a land mines.Mar 17 13:21
schestowitzMinceR: there are many more. Washington Post, CNET, the Seattle press.....Mar 17 13:23
MinceRReverse Network Effect on Linux: i'd expect the snobs who want to use/develop something few people care about have already left for *bsd.Mar 17 13:34
oiaohmLinus got to the point he was dealing with too many people.Mar 17 13:42
oiaohmcould not work out who to trust.Mar 17 13:42
oiaohmNormally that would mean network effect kicked in and did damage.Mar 17 13:42
oiaohmLinus smarter.  Appointed maintainers he trusted to run particular sections.Mar 17 13:42
MinceRafaik he solved that by adding structureMar 17 13:42
MinceRindeedMar 17 13:43
oiaohmYep without structure Linux would have failed due to the Reverse Network EffectMar 17 13:43
oiaohmHuman mind has limits.Mar 17 13:43
oiaohmOther open source projects have gone splat due to the Reverse Network effect.  Not smart enough maintainer.  Result of not building in structor is infighting breaking out inside the project.Mar 17 13:45
oiaohmYes if ever running a large project keep Reverse Network Effect in mind.Mar 17 13:45
MinceRi'm not sure this is really the RNE that article mentionsMar 17 13:46
MinceRwhat you're talking about is an administration issue; the other one is a social issueMar 17 13:46
oiaohmIts both.Mar 17 13:46
oiaohmIf you don't administrator to prevent RNE.  RNE ends up causing social issues.Mar 17 13:47
MinceRfrom the administration standpoint, it doesn't matter how many people you have as long as you can work out a structure to manage themMar 17 13:48
oiaohmRNE is the result if you don't manage them.Mar 17 13:48
MinceRbut from the social standpoint, the more people you have the less being a member of that group sets you apart from other people.Mar 17 13:48
schestowitzg2g for a while...Mar 17 13:49
oiaohmThat social standpoint also prevents trust if you are spreed too thin.Mar 17 13:49
oiaohmLack of trust will bring projects down.Mar 17 13:49
schestowitzI am  looking to extend my passport which expires within a few months. I have attempted to contact the consulate here in Manchester by phone about a dozen times, but I was never able to get an answer, not by phone anyway. It is as though nobody is there and it becomes a matter of more urgency.Mar 17 13:50
schestowitzI'll be back laterMar 17 13:50
schestowitzGerman embassy again..Mar 17 13:50
oiaohmLinux and Open Source development is part social.   That breaking down has major effects.Mar 17 13:51
oiaohmIts a simple case if you have 10000 people in a room.   They cannot get there point accross.  Now if you break that 10000 people down into smaller groups of common interests there points can get accross because its organised.Mar 17 13:52
oiaohmAlso room full of 10000 people most people will not trust anyone in there.Mar 17 13:53
oiaohmRNE.  Result of poor management.Mar 17 13:53
oiaohmYou should never find RNE inside a well managed company MinceRMar 17 13:54
MinceRcompanies aren't the same kind of community though :)Mar 17 13:55
MinceRmoney motivates people to stay inside.Mar 17 13:55
oiaohmI have found RNE inside failing companies.Mar 17 13:55
oiaohmBasically everyone not trusting anyone else in the  company because they really did not know each other.Mar 17 13:56
oiaohmMost common cause in RNE inside a companies is Idea thiefs.Mar 17 13:56
oiaohmBasically RNE is part of human nature.   We are not built to build trust with large groups.Mar 17 13:58
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twitter100 reasons GNU/Linux is better than Vista. http://www.itwire.com/cont...Mar 17 15:36
Balroghello everyoneMar 17 15:39
zer0c00lhttp://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/03/...Mar 17 15:47
zer0c00lTOYA=Talkin' Out Your A**.Mar 17 15:48
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twittervista failure log updated with the 100 reasons GNU/Linux is better than Vista list http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/177855Mar 17 15:52
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Omar87HiMar 17 15:58
Omar87Anyone knows the EXT file system's under what license? Is it GPL?Mar 17 15:59
twitterI'm sure there's more than one implementation.Mar 17 16:04
twitterthe Linux kernel implementation is still GPL 2 as far as I know.Mar 17 16:05
twitterdig around a little and find out  http://www.google.com/search?q=sit...Mar 17 16:07
twitterI did not see anything interestingMar 17 16:07
BalrogI believe it's GPL, let me check.Mar 17 16:09
twitterthe source code itself should say, but I don't have a recent copyMar 17 16:09
Balrogwhere is the source code? in the kernel?Mar 17 16:10
twittershould beMar 17 16:10
BalrogThough there are probably multiple implementations...??Mar 17 16:11
twitterhow to get Debian's copy.  http://kernel-handbook.aliot...Mar 17 16:11
twittersure there are multiple implementations.  EXT is not a secret.Mar 17 16:11
Balrogor patented :P ... then it could not be GPL though.Mar 17 16:12
twitterI imagine BSD distributions have an implementation, freedos, and so on and so forth.  I've even heard someone made one for Windows, which makes W32 nasties a subtle threat to GNU/Linux for dual boot people.Mar 17 16:13
twitterbotnet people can upload ext drivers and modify people's gnu/linuxMar 17 16:13
twitteras usual, security and privacy are only as strong as the weakest link in your chainMar 17 16:14
MinceRit could be GPL even if it was patentedMar 17 16:15
twittervirus implementations, gotta be public domain.Mar 17 16:15
twitternot GPL 3Mar 17 16:15
MinceRwell, virus implementations could be illegal to spreadMar 17 16:15
MinceRit's not like the implementors care :>Mar 17 16:15
twitterrightMar 17 16:15
Balrogtwitter: there is a proprietary implementation for windows.Mar 17 16:16
BalrogIt's buggy though, I hear :(Mar 17 16:16
Balrogex2ifsMar 17 16:16
twitterif it runs of windows, it will be buggyMar 17 16:16
twitterwindows is bad for youMar 17 16:16
Balrognot in that sense; rather, it has damaged people's ext2/3 partitionsMar 17 16:17
twitterblows it away in all cases? ha! perfectMar 17 16:17
Balrognot all cases; occasionallyMar 17 16:17
MinceRit could even be GPL3, if the copyright holder owned the patent or could sublicense it or whateverMar 17 16:17
Balrogext2fsd is probably more stable, and is fossMar 17 16:18
twitteruh, no.  GPL 3 expressly forbids patents.  they would have to license it as something else.Mar 17 16:18
Balrogwhat about if a company is open-sourcing something that already has patents that they own?Mar 17 16:19
Balrogthey *can't* use GPL 3?Mar 17 16:19
twitternot for patented codeMar 17 16:19
twitterhttp://www.fsf.org/licensing/li...Mar 17 16:20
MinceRiirc GPL3 requires that patents be accessible, not that they not existMar 17 16:20
Balrogtwitter: not trueMar 17 16:21
BalrogWhenever someone conveys software covered by GPLv3 that they've written or modified, they must provide every recipient with any patent licenses necessary to exercise the rights that the GPL gives them. In addition to that, if any licensee tries to use a patent suit to stop another user from exercising those rights, their license will be terminated.Mar 17 16:21
Balrog<< http://www.gnu.org/licenses...Mar 17 16:21
MinceRi was just about to paste that :)Mar 17 16:21
Balrog:PMar 17 16:21
twitterwell, a patent you can't use is about as good as useless as it gets.Mar 17 16:22
Balrogtrue.Mar 17 16:22
twitterthanks for reminding meMar 17 16:23
twitterthe difference is subtle and very GPL like in it's effective subversion of evil laws.Mar 17 16:23
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twitteras usual, the rule of, "If you want the good things I have, you must play nice" is enforced.Mar 17 16:24
twitteryou have to love the flow chart, where everything flows to GPL3Mar 17 16:25
twitterbbl, keep up the good work.Mar 17 16:26
Balrogwhat's red hat doing?Mar 17 16:26
Balroghttp://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2...Mar 17 16:26
Balrogtwitter, works unless something is licensed under GPL2 only ... like the kernelMar 17 16:26
schestowitzAustralian hacker sentenced for 3 years <  http://news.zdnet.com/2100-... >Mar 17 16:27
Balrogwhat's this with redhat now?Mar 17 16:27
schestowitzBalrog: see BNMar 17 16:27
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/03...Mar 17 16:31
BalrogI see.Mar 17 16:35
Balrogiphone 3.0 software demo in 17 minutesMar 17 16:39
Balroglive coverage : http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/03/li...Mar 17 16:39
Balrog(I wonder what they're up to this time.....)Mar 17 16:39
*trmanco1 (n=trmanco_@bl8-228-67.dsl.telepac.pt) has joined #boycottnovellMar 17 16:41
schestowitzlive coverage?Mar 17 16:44
schestowitzSounds ritual.Mar 17 16:44
Balrogyeah, the rumor sites always do itMar 17 16:46
Balrogthis time it's only one thoughMar 17 16:46
*schestowitz concerned about iheadphonesMar 17 16:46
Balrog(ars)Mar 17 16:46
schestowitzbrbMar 17 16:46
Balrogschestowitz: I'm not too concerned ... the larger ipods will never lose buttons on device.Mar 17 16:47
Balrogif /that/ happened, people would be mad.Mar 17 16:47
MinceRit's a religion. it's always ritual.Mar 17 16:49
BalrogMinceR: I don't agree, but that's true about a lot of things you say.Mar 17 16:50
BalrogAt video game console announcements there is often live coverageMar 17 16:50
MinceRBalrog: i didn't expect you to agree. :>Mar 17 16:50
Balrogheh. This premature reaction to the headphones is troubling, I think. No one did any reverse engineering to see if there is 'DRM' and yet they all yelled about itMar 17 16:51
Balrog(I'm worried about the EFF's credibility suffering due to this. They usually are on the mark with what they say.)Mar 17 16:52
MinceRi'm sure crApple will release a full datasheet that will tell you which chips do DRM and which don't. :>Mar 17 16:53
schestowitzBalrog: agreedMar 17 16:58
schestowitzI haven't wiritten about the headphones yet because Apple says nothing.Mar 17 16:59
BalrogApple says it's not DRM, but I'm not waiting for themMar 17 16:59
schestowitzWhen they make up their mind, they'll probably have the FSF/DBD on their arss :-)Mar 17 16:59
schestowitzBalrog: it's lockinMar 17 16:59
BalrogI'm waiting for (a) third-party headphone prices to appear and (b) someone to reverse-engineer itMar 17 16:59
schestowitzNon-interop even in headphonesMar 17 16:59
schestowitzImagine headphones without common socketsMar 17 16:59
Balrogit would be nice if they could release this like they did mini-displayportyMar 17 17:00
Balrogs/y/Mar 17 17:00
MinceRi wouldn't mind a better kind of jack, but it's got to be standardMar 17 17:00
Balrogjust release the signaling protocol, that's all!Mar 17 17:00
MinceR(in general -- i don't plan on buying any apple products)Mar 17 17:01
Balrognew features for developers in 3.0Mar 17 17:01
Balrog.....Mar 17 17:01
schestowitz Apple denies mystery chip is DRM - It is all about control  http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/n...Mar 17 17:01
Balrogthey also say it's easy to reverse engineer.Mar 17 17:03
Balroga number of manufacturers are already offering third party replacements.Mar 17 17:03
Balrog<< quoteMar 17 17:03
schestowitz*LOL*  Apple lets unfortunate logo slip < http://www.theinquirer.net/inq... > CUNTphone?Mar 17 17:05
BalrogScott notes that devs are requesting other business models, like subscriptions, additional level charges, and new content for apps.  "These days you have to sell one application per book, for example, and developers want a book store built into the app." "Today we're supporting all of these additional business models."  "You can now purchase a game that comes wiht 10 levels, and when you're done playing those levels, you can purchase the next 1Mar 17 17:05
Balrog<< quoteMar 17 17:05
BalrogAll of it is tied into the iTunes Store. You're asked for your iTunes password but you remain within the app.Mar 17 17:06


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