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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 10th, 2009 - Part 2


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oiaohmProblem is longer the battle goes on the more distruption people will see.Apr 10 09:54
MinceRi haven't noticed any of it.Apr 10 09:55
oiaohmMost distruptions lass less than 2 mins.Apr 10 09:55
oiaohmlass/lastApr 10 09:55
oiaohmSo yes is very simple to miss it happening MinceRApr 10 09:55
MinceRicApr 10 09:56
schestowitzoiaohm: or several hoursApr 10 09:57
oiaohmNote the word most.Apr 10 09:57
oiaohmSome people are in worse locations than othersApr 10 09:57
oiaohmProblem is average distruption time is growning the longer this battle goes on.Apr 10 09:58
oiaohmAlso does not help that Conficker virus numbers are growing at the moment as well either.Apr 10 09:59
oiaohmContanment is failing.Apr 10 09:59
MinceRwell, the worse it gets the greater the chance that several people realize what sorts of problems putting themselves at risk by using windows leads to.Apr 10 10:00
MinceRstupid people don't understand potential problems until those are realized and they suffer because of them.Apr 10 10:01
oiaohmIf it gets bad enough only option will be to ban windows machine from entering the network.Apr 10 10:01
oiaohmWhat would really screw MS.Apr 10 10:01
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MinceRindeedApr 10 10:03
DaemonBSODI'm playing with Windows 7Apr 10 10:04
DaemonBSODit's crashed 6 times so farApr 10 10:04
MinceR:)Apr 10 10:04
MinceRin how much time?Apr 10 10:04
DaemonBSODoh, about 5 hoursApr 10 10:04
DaemonBSODI just got the leaked 7077 buildApr 10 10:04
DaemonBSODI'm scanning it for virusesApr 10 10:05
DaemonBSODI'm on 7057 right nowApr 10 10:05
DaemonBSODI'm not really amused by itApr 10 10:05
DaemonBSODthey could have probably called it Vista SE and nobody would have arguedApr 10 10:05
MinceRor Vista SP3Apr 10 10:06
DaemonBSODI'm not really seeing any terribly important changes vs. VistaApr 10 10:06
DaemonBSODand a hell of a lot more bugsApr 10 10:06
DaemonBSODthey made the task bar work more like the OS X dockApr 10 10:07
DaemonBSODthat's about itApr 10 10:07
DaemonBSODit still feels like counterfeit Leopard meets Windows XPApr 10 10:07
DaemonBSODon the plus side it did detect a few pieces of hardware that Vista didn'tApr 10 10:08
DaemonBSODI didn't need to go hunt down any drivers at allApr 10 10:08
MinceRi've heard they copied kde this timeApr 10 10:08
DaemonBSODno, it works better than KDEApr 10 10:09
DaemonBSODbut not as well as GNOME or the OS X GUIApr 10 10:09
MinceRoh, i forgot you religiously hated kdeApr 10 10:09
DaemonBSODmmhmApr 10 10:09
DaemonBSODI would say that Windows 7 is preferable to KDEApr 10 10:09
DaemonBSODif KDE was my only choice on Linux I probably would just pay for Windows and get it over with, lolApr 10 10:10
DaemonBSODactually the GUI on 7 is not bad, it's just not the best I've seenApr 10 10:10
oiaohmTested the secuirty yet.Apr 10 10:11
oiaohmIts still swiss cheese.Apr 10 10:11
DaemonBSODmeh, Windows security problems sit between the keyboard and the chairApr 10 10:11
DaemonBSODusually it comes from running keygens and fake porn codecsApr 10 10:11
MinceRthe user who decided to install windows?Apr 10 10:11
MinceR(or to buy a machine with it preinstalled and not to wipe it)Apr 10 10:12
DaemonBSODno, but you can't just run software from wherever and expect not to get a malicious programApr 10 10:12
DaemonBSODthe Windows virus problem has less to do with Windows and more to do with idiot users that run anything and everything they find on the internetApr 10 10:12
MinceRi could expect not to have a gazillion unnecessary open ports by defaultApr 10 10:12
MinceRor at least to have a relatively bugfree firewall covering themApr 10 10:13
oiaohmUnder windows is fairly simple to get from normal user to admin.Apr 10 10:13
MinceRi could also expect to be able to use the system as a non-admin user normally, and to have system files protected from writing thenApr 10 10:13
oiaohmEven without passwords.Apr 10 10:13
DaemonBSODnot reallyApr 10 10:13
trmancolooApr 10 10:13
trmanconice nameApr 10 10:13
MinceR(this would need UAC to not be so full of holes.)Apr 10 10:14
DaemonBSODif you disable or password protect the Administrator accountApr 10 10:14
DaemonBSODand make everyone else a userApr 10 10:14
DaemonBSODthen you're fineApr 10 10:14
oiaohmNopApr 10 10:14
MinceRexcept most windows apps won't runApr 10 10:14
DaemonBSODyeah they doApr 10 10:14
DaemonBSODUAC can run them as an administrator just like sudoApr 10 10:14
oiaohmThere is a way into a user that can set the administrators password even create new admin users.Apr 10 10:14
MinceR(but if you don't expect compatibility with shit like photoshop, why run windows at all?)Apr 10 10:14
oiaohmWithout UAC even seeing it.Apr 10 10:14
MinceRexcept UAC isn't "just like sudo"Apr 10 10:14
oiaohmUAC does not protect services.Apr 10 10:15
DaemonBSODyou know, I haven't really seen UAC that muchApr 10 10:15
oiaohmYes UAC control users.Apr 10 10:15
DaemonBSODmaybe once or twice since I set this upApr 10 10:15
oiaohmThen basically allow everything because not upsets users.Apr 10 10:15
DaemonBSODthey've done a decent job of reducing the number of asinine UAC promptsApr 10 10:15
oiaohmThey  basically turned it off.Apr 10 10:16
DaemonBSODnot reallyApr 10 10:16
MinceRthat's what everyone did with vista ;)Apr 10 10:16
DaemonBSODit still comes up to install programsApr 10 10:16
oiaohmrundll3dApr 10 10:16
DaemonBSODjust not to mess around with your wifi connectionApr 10 10:16
oiaohmrundll32Apr 10 10:16
DaemonBSODas an exampleApr 10 10:16
oiaohmNo warning.Apr 10 10:16
MinceRprobably the windows fanboys who keep saying "DURRR HURRR VISTA UAC OMGSECURE" did tooApr 10 10:16
oiaohmstraight to system user.Apr 10 10:16
DaemonBSODbrbApr 10 10:16
DaemonBSODinstalling 7077Apr 10 10:17
oiaohmwhere you can change eveyrthing.Apr 10 10:17
oiaohmInstaller programs could get smart really.Apr 10 10:17
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MinceRusers could get smartApr 10 10:17
MinceRand avoid windowsApr 10 10:17
trmancohahah rebootApr 10 10:17
oiaohmservices are key to protect.Apr 10 10:17
oiaohmBasically anything running with powers of root or equal is key to protect.Apr 10 10:18
oiaohmWindows 7 still manages to completely miss that point.Apr 10 10:18
oiaohm   << Ok we have database glue.Apr 10 10:31
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_Hicham_Hi Roy!Apr 10 10:35
schestowitzHeyApr 10 10:38
schestowitzYes, Vista7 is less secure than VistaApr 10 10:40
schestowitzUnderneath the model remains the same, but with less UAC nagsApr 10 10:41
schestowitzMicrosoft never touted Vista7 for security, despite the fact that Vista too was a security disasterApr 10 10:41
schestowitzIt's all marketing (perceptions)Apr 10 10:41
_Hicham_Microsoft will never release a secure platformApr 10 10:51
schestowitzMicrosoft Linux? (SUSE)Apr 10 10:51
MinceRthat's what i was going to say.Apr 10 10:51
trmancoit's not microsoft'sApr 10 10:52
trmancothey can't "own" itApr 10 10:52
trmancoat least parts of it (SUSE)Apr 10 10:53
_Hicham_SuSe will be owned by schestowitz afterwardsApr 10 11:05
trmancoSusy?Apr 10 11:06
trmanco:-pApr 10 11:06
_Hicham_oiaohm : why r u silent?Apr 10 11:08
oiaohmAway for keyboard of course _Hicham_Apr 10 11:13
_Hicham_oiaohm : do u think that OpenGL should go OO ?Apr 10 11:16
_Hicham_just like DirectX?Apr 10 11:16
_Hicham_and leave the C interface?Apr 10 11:16
oiaohmGallium3d winsApr 10 11:16
oiaohmStuff building backend dependant on Opengl or directx built a netural backend.Apr 10 11:17
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oiaohmReally in time you will be able to have as many 3d framework assistance engines as you like.Apr 10 11:18
oiaohmObject Orrented programming suits some developments and not others.Apr 10 11:18
oiaohmGallium3d really if someone wants to they could port Direct X interfaces to Linux.Apr 10 11:20
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MinceRtrmanco: not owning something never stopped m$ from selling it.Apr 10 11:57
trmancoMinceR, then they get suedApr 10 11:57
trmanco...Apr 10 11:57
MinceRthey have an army of lawyersApr 10 11:58
MinceRalso, sometimes they bribed the one who discovered it (at least once)Apr 10 11:59
trmancoyes, but that can't go on foreverApr 10 12:00
MinceRwell, they're dying alreadyApr 10 12:03
trmancoyeah, soon they will start bribing with $1Apr 10 12:04
oiaohmPatent losses increase the min price of windows.Apr 10 12:04
_Hicham_oiaohm : port DirectX interfaces to Linux?Apr 10 12:05
trmancowine does thatApr 10 12:05
oiaohmGallium3d is netural interface.Apr 10 12:05
oiaohmThat can be just as simply used for opengl 2.0 opengl 3.0 as it can for Direct XApr 10 12:06
oiaohmWine depends on wrapping to opengl.Apr 10 12:06
oiaohmThat has its limitations because some interall structs of cards are off limits.Apr 10 12:06
_Hicham_so it will use Wine emulation layer?Apr 10 12:08
_Hicham_which is not native...Apr 10 12:09
oiaohmGallium3d is basically native interface to video card.Apr 10 12:36
oiaohmGallium3d provided emulation to features missing from cards as well.Apr 10 12:36
oiaohmSo wine and others like it wanting to emulatate Direct X can have just has much direct hardware access using Gallium3d as on windows.Apr 10 12:37
oiaohmThinking that Gallium3d is designed to be the layer between Direct X and Video card on Windows as well.Apr 10 12:37
oiaohmThe world of Linux is changing.Apr 10 12:39
_Hicham_the packaging thing isn't really a problem by the wayApr 10 12:47
_Hicham_checkinstall solve it completelyApr 10 12:47
oiaohmNot on all distributions.Apr 10 12:50
oiaohmISV's want a single installer for all.Apr 10 12:50
_Hicham_at least on Fedora and DebianApr 10 12:51
oiaohmGentoo and edges missed.Apr 10 12:51
_Hicham_they are the major distrosApr 10 12:52
_Hicham_Gentoo can do itApr 10 12:53
oiaohmISV are not interested in just Major.Apr 10 12:53
oiaohmThey want the lot.Apr 10 12:53
oiaohm1 package if its Linux it works basically.Apr 10 12:54
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amarsh04back soon, rebooting for new X server and kernelApr 10 13:34
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schestowitzNovell in trouble: 10 13:48
schestowitzNovell influences the LF for MS tax: 10 13:49
schestowitzAnd looking deeper at xenocode: 10 13:50
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oiaohmThe opensuse built framework is not .net.   Its one of the rare frameworks that works for building multiable distribution packages.Apr 10 13:54
PetoKrauswhat happened to the IBM-Sun thing?Apr 10 13:54
PetoKrausdid it fail? or is it still under negotiations?Apr 10 13:54
oiaohmIBM-Sun thing is still up in the air.Apr 10 13:54
PetoKrausokApr 10 13:54
oiaohmFailed then IBM reoffered.Apr 10 13:54
PetoKrausGiven how close Sun came to being acquired by IBMApr 10 13:54
oiaohmSo far Sun has not answered.Apr 10 13:54
oiaohmIe IBM reoffered at lower price.Apr 10 13:55
PetoKrausthe past tense seems confusingApr 10 13:55
PetoKrausrightApr 10 13:55
PetoKrausso IBM offered, Sun declined, and IBM reoffered at lower price?Apr 10 13:55
PetoKrausor sun didn't reply at allApr 10 13:55
PetoKrausand IBM just changed the offer?Apr 10 13:55
oiaohmSun offered them selfs to IBM at a price.  IBM deciliend  now IBM has put back a offer.Apr 10 13:55
PetoKrausahaApr 10 13:56
PetoKrausi thought it was IBM approaching sunApr 10 13:56
PetoKraus...Apr 10 13:56
oiaohmNoApr 10 13:56
oiaohmSun approiced Intel and Cisco systems first.Apr 10 13:56
oiaohmSun is basically selling themselves off.Apr 10 13:56
PetoKrausyeahApr 10 13:56
oiaohmDo you want to know something funny about opensuse build service.  There is no Visual studio or monodevelopment plugin for it.  Its main coding language is bash.Apr 10 14:04
MinceRi don't see anything wrong with thatApr 10 14:05
MinceRexcept that it's *suse, of course :>Apr 10 14:05
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oiaohmPlat membership in the Linux foundation costs a good block of cash.Apr 10 14:07
oiaohmIts going be good to see if Novell is still there after middle of year.Apr 10 14:08
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schestowitzoiaohm, PetoKraus yes, Sun still wants to be soldApr 10 14:18
schestowitzI reckon NOVL might have to do something similarApr 10 14:18
schestowitzParallels won't matter much if Sun's example is anything to go byApr 10 14:18
schestowitzNovell has aligned itself as a good takeover target for MicrosoftApr 10 14:18
oiaohmLet NOVL talk at the Linux foundation confrences is really good at getting themselves more hatedApr 10 14:19
MinceRwill buying Novell be a trigger for antitrust reexamination of MICROS~1?Apr 10 14:19
schestowitzYesApr 10 14:19
schestowitzBut Microsoft controls emApr 10 14:19
schestowitzRemember what PearlyG said about the governmentApr 10 14:19
schestowitzHe joked about controlling itApr 10 14:19
MinceRperhaps they'll be out of money to bribe the government by thenApr 10 14:19
schestowitzWatch how they intercepted Google-Yahoo...Apr 10 14:19
schestowitzWhile having no problem for themselves with yahoo!Apr 10 14:20
MinceRthen again, Corporate Puppet Obama has some men from m$Apr 10 14:20
oiaohmPlatinum Membership (500,000USD)  << That is what Linux foundation plat cost per year.Apr 10 14:20
schestowitzThe US/antitrust regulators are still practically owned by the commerceApr 10 14:20
schestowitzThe question is, which company put which cronies in chanrgeApr 10 14:20
EruaranhelloApr 10 14:20
schestowitzAnd then there's lobbyingApr 10 14:20
schestowitzIt's legalised briberyApr 10 14:20
schestowitzSo you can turn people to your croniesApr 10 14:20
schestowitzZiff Davis sold out to Microsoft Corporation, again: 10 14:22
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schestowitzIs Microsoft AstroTurfing in Twitter (again)? 10 15:05
schestowitzYuck. What are these people doing? A Twitter PR agency: Just what the world needs now < >Apr 10 15:08
schestowitz (The Pirate Bay's New Business Model Apparently Working Wonders)Apr 10 15:13
schestowitzThe new laws in Sweden appear to only be helping these chaps. "113,000 customers have already signed up for The Pirate Bay's new anonymous VPN service, which costs around $6/month. "Apr 10 15:14
schestowitzSo thanks to Swidish law they could have another revenue of almost a million dollars/per monthApr 10 15:14
oiaohmYep there is 113,000 people who need there computer raided.Apr 10 15:14
schestowitz*Sweden *no slash in "per"Apr 10 15:14
oiaohmWhy do you need the vpn if you are downloading legal stuff.Apr 10 15:15
schestowitzSlated: uses VPNApr 10 15:15
schestowitzHe deserves his privacyApr 10 15:15
schestowitzIf we don't defend our libarties, we lose themApr 10 15:15
schestowitz*libertiesApr 10 15:15
oiaohmI mean to the bittorrent network.Apr 10 15:15
schestowitzDon't let them use child pr0n/terror/"piracy" as reason to eavesdrop on EVERYTHING EVERYONE doesApr 10 15:16
schestowitzThat would be their wet dream -- pretending that checking every bit that goes through the wire is for 'security'Apr 10 15:16
schestowitzAnd then have scum like Phorm sell it for profitApr 10 15:16
oiaohmvpn and encyption disadvantage blocks caching so making network more overloaded.Apr 10 15:16
oiaohmSo effecting everyone elses right to use the Internet.Apr 10 15:17
schestowitzThat would be an excudeApr 10 15:17
schestowitz*excuseApr 10 15:17
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schestowitzHad they not sold our data, then--maybe then--would the Internet be assumed to bean honourable placeApr 10 15:17
oiaohmInternet was never designed to be private.Apr 10 15:18
schestowitzAn Internet that makes profit from telling sharks all sorts of things about me (Phorm) is organised crimeApr 10 15:18
schestowitzVPN can restore justiceApr 10 15:18
oiaohmCost vs gain.Apr 10 15:18
schestowitzPhorm is the equivalent of a private company coming to visit your house every morning and going through your drawers, then telling anyone for a few pounds what it sawApr 10 15:19
mib_a5l9wuAs for the question of whta happened between Michael Robertson and Kevin Carmony, this post on Carmony's blog explains why he quit: 10 15:19
schestowitzHi, mib_a5l9wu Apr 10 15:19
schestowitzLet me look...Apr 10 15:19
schestowitzIs there coverage outside their blogs?Apr 10 15:20
schestowitzBecause someone asked me about it (unbiased sources as need)Apr 10 15:20
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mib_a5l9wuCarmony references a court case, links to rulingApr 10 15:20
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mib_a5l9wuAll the coverage at the time said Carmony was leaving to work on presidential campaign, I forget for whom (Paul maybe)Apr 10 15:21
mib_a5l9wuBut in his blog he explains the "real" reason, which I tend to believe, given that it ended up in court.Apr 10 15:22
mib_a5l9wuIn a nutshell, Robertson filed embezzlement charges against some employees who received severance payments.  Employees were vindicated in court.Apr 10 15:23
schestowitzmib_a5l9wu: wasn't there a dating busienss?Apr 10 15:24
oiaohmschestowitz: As a system admin I have a completely different idea of privacy.Apr 10 15:24
schestowitzSome online thing which he said was *gasp* compatible with iPhone (Well, it's a damn Web page :-))Apr 10 15:24
schestowitzoiaohm: please elaborateApr 10 15:25
schestowitzA Reader's Guide to Copyright < >Apr 10 15:25
schestowitzSoftware Audits In India Block Companies From Backing Up Their Data, Claiming It's Infringement < >Apr 10 15:26
mib_a5l9wuAfter Carmony left Linspire he started, which does have a dating piece.  Dating DNA is part of Lifes DNA and yes, it is one of the most popular apps in Apple's app store.Apr 10 15:29
oiaohmAs a system admin you have to protect the rights of the all to get there work done.   Privacy is not that high up there.  Anything encrypted without need is a risk of losing data or costing network performance so effecting everyone.Apr 10 15:31
oiaohmIs there really a true need for people to get access to pirated programs.  From a business point of view no.  From a virus prevention point of view no.Apr 10 15:32
oiaohmBy making the network encrypted you only give system admins 1 option.   To block it all.Apr 10 15:33
oiaohmSo really what they are doing is reducing the general freedoms of all.Apr 10 15:34
schestowitzmib_a5l9wu: I see. I thought it was Web basedApr 10 15:37
oiaohmIf there was no pirated people would be forced to turn to the genuine free stuff and possiable improve it.  So express themselves freely not be restricted by corprate designs.Apr 10 15:38
schestowitzI'm talking about excessive snoopingApr 10 15:38
schestowitzLike PhormApr 10 15:38
oiaohmSo from a system admin point of view what pirate bay is doing is not protecting freedom.Apr 10 15:38
oiaohmInstead restricting it.Apr 10 15:38
schestowitzIt serves no purpose other then to use people as tools of consumerismApr 10 15:38
schestowitzI.e. make them take more loans and buy stuff they don't need, among other thingsApr 10 15:39
oiaohmUsing pirated software does that.Apr 10 15:39
schestowitzIt is unhealthy for any society to enter people's thoughtsApr 10 15:39
schestowitzIt's perverse because it demoralises people.Apr 10 15:39
oiaohmWhen they work for a company boss will ask them what software does x job.Apr 10 15:39
schestowitzoiaohm: wrong pointApr 10 15:39
schestowitzYou are assuming things hereApr 10 15:39
oiaohmPirates will answer closed source.Apr 10 15:39
oiaohmNot really.Apr 10 15:39
schestowitzYou assume that by snooping you'll stop illega sharingApr 10 15:40
schestowitzBut this is baloney.Apr 10 15:40
schestowitzPeople can swap stuff on tapes, USB disks, etc.Apr 10 15:40
schestowitzYou're just relocating the problemApr 10 15:40
oiaohmNow what is the main thing they need.Apr 10 15:40
schestowitzLike fools who thought that kicking out prostitutes from Craigslist would end itApr 10 15:40
oiaohmCracks.Apr 10 15:41
schestowitzThey just relocareApr 10 15:41
oiaohmRelocating it to media out side the network slows them down yes.Apr 10 15:41
oiaohmAlso removes them from being a cost on the network.Apr 10 15:41
oiaohmSo the mass gain.Apr 10 15:41
schestowitzU2's manager wants the power to cut off your Internet connection < >Apr 10 15:42
mib_a5l9wuschestowitz: Yes, it's web based ( but they have apps for the Chumby, iPhone, etc.Apr 10 15:42
schestowitzoiaohm: people fear the unknown on the nwtworkApr 10 15:42
schestowitzLike encrypted traffucApr 10 15:42
schestowitzBut it's sillyApr 10 15:42
schestowitzWhy/Apr 10 15:42
schestowitzWell, because they don't hear what people sayApr 10 15:42
schestowitzThey have no record of who people meetApr 10 15:42
oiaohmNot all encrypted traffic.Apr 10 15:42
schestowitzSo it's the illusion that people live in one single channelApr 10 15:42
oiaohmEncrypted traffic containing one of the biggest sources in computer virus trade around the world.Apr 10 15:43
oiaohmLot of pirated applications are infected.Apr 10 15:43
mib_a5l9wuschestowitz:  you an email carmony from his home page  I've written to him before and he replied.Apr 10 15:44
oiaohmDownload pirated applications incresses you infection rates massivelyApr 10 15:44
schestowitzmib_a5l9wu: can you say how you related to it?Apr 10 15:44
schestowitztessier used to work for RobertsonApr 10 15:44
oiaohmMostly because people using pirated applications don't update them so they will not stop working.Apr 10 15:44
mib_a5l9wuschestowitz:  Lifes DNA is web based ( but they have apps for chumby, iphone, etc.Apr 10 15:45
oiaohmIts unknown that system admins know contain problems that users are blocking us from scanning.Apr 10 15:45
mib_a5l9wuschestowitz: I worked at mp3.comApr 10 15:45
schestowitzmib_a5l9wu: did he leave the company?Apr 10 15:45
mib_a5l9wuschestowitz: Yes, Carmony left a couple of years ago.  That's what he explained in the link I sent:  It's a pretty complete detail as to the events of his leaving.Apr 10 15:46
oiaohmLast 3 infections in the network I run come from pirates.Apr 10 15:47
schestowitzLloyd-Webber hits out over downloads < > Fighting fans.Apr 10 15:47
schestowitzschestowitz: I mean, the newer companyApr 10 15:47
schestowitzNot LinspireApr 10 15:47
schestowitzoiaohm: in boats?Apr 10 15:47
oiaohmSoftware thiefs.  We call them pirates for a reason.Apr 10 15:48
oiaohmThe normally enter our networks carring weapons in the forms of viruses being too dumb to know it.Apr 10 15:48
mib_a5l9wuschestowitz:  I just looked at and it looks like he's still doing DNA and some other projects.  I know he does lots with indie music.  He also worked at  That's how he met Robertson.Apr 10 15:48
oiaohmCome on some of these software thiefs are dumb enough to steal anti-virus software.   So when that breaks they are left defenceless.  There is more than enough free anti-virus software out there.Apr 10 15:49
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mib_a5l9wuschestowitz:  Looks like he authors DNA's blog 10 15:51
oiaohmAnyone taking part in the illegal software trade should be shutdown simply to protect the stupid.Apr 10 15:51
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schestowitzoiaohm: I was not talking about executablesApr 10 15:54
schestowitzAbout copyrights applied to multimedia or text ratherApr 10 15:54
oiaohmAnd they end up on torrent sites as compressed virus infected .exe for the stupid.Apr 10 15:55
schestowitzActually, it's interesting that copyright law applies to binaries now.Apr 10 15:55
oiaohmNot like pirate bay includes filtering to prevent that.Apr 10 15:55
schestowitzStay out of my 0110 0100 1100 0110 0100 1100 0110 0100 1100 0110 0100 1100 0110 0100 1100 0110 0100 1100 0110 0100 1100 0110 0100 1100 0110 0100 1100 0110 0100 1100 0110 0100 1100 0110 0100 1100 0110 0100 1100Apr 10 15:55
oiaohmcopyright law always had.Apr 10 15:56
oiaohmPiratebay and the like don't deserve to stay alive.Apr 10 15:57
oiaohmReason why I would love to see those bank transfers used for raids so scaring the stupid away from them.Apr 10 15:57
*mib_a5l9wu has quit (" ajax IRC Client")Apr 10 15:59
*silentivm has quit (Remote closed the connection)Apr 10 15:59
oiaohmDo you not remember punch cards schestowitzApr 10 15:59
schestowitzCringely rightly reckons Sun will sell itself cheap/ly: 10 15:59
schestowitzoiaohm: nopeApr 10 15:59
schestowitzI'm not old enoughApr 10 15:59
schestowitzMy cousin in Florida tells me she used emApr 10 15:59
schestowitzSome friends of mine have cards as memorabiliaApr 10 16:00
schestowitzWhen will the Linux Foundation learn to stop feeding shills for hire? 10 16:01
oiaohmNever schestowitzApr 10 16:02
schestowitzI knowApr 10 16:04
schestowitzThey act like Microsoft but against itApr 10 16:04
schestowitzGNU/FSF follows a more ethical guidelines that isn't like cutting-throat business.Apr 10 16:05
oiaohmNot exactly.Apr 10 16:05
schestowitzI'm not going to stand up (and voluntarily) for some company like IBMApr 10 16:05
schestowitzaka LF aka OIN... whateverApr 10 16:05
oiaohmThey hope IDC screws up and releases two document counter to each other.Apr 10 16:05
oiaohmSo legally screwing themselves.Apr 10 16:05
schestowitzTo me, Linux promotes a goal broader than just 'replacing WindowsApr 10 16:05
oiaohmIe 1 document has to be fraud.Apr 10 16:05
schestowitzIf all we were trying to achieve is replace one OS with another, then might as well swap MS with AppleApr 10 16:06
schestowitzTwo evil companiesApr 10 16:06
schestowitzWhat was truly achieved then?Apr 10 16:06
schestowitzFree agents for companies that make billions from DRM, WGA, DMCA takedowns, patent lawsuits...Apr 10 16:06
oiaohmProblem you have to be aware of business don't care about freedom.Apr 10 16:07
schestowitzoiaohm: they do this all the time, IMHOApr 10 16:07
schestowitzNot negating in the scientific senseApr 10 16:07
schestowitzBut contradicting depending on the clientApr 10 16:07
schestowitzoiaohm: some business /can/Apr 10 16:07
oiaohmMost don't.Apr 10 16:07
schestowitzBut that's what the movement can be aboutApr 10 16:07
oiaohmThey care about getting the job done.Apr 10 16:08
schestowitzyes, but let's not miss the pointApr 10 16:08
schestowitzif the goal is ethics-related, then the goal is to changeApr 10 16:08
oiaohmLinux foundation is not targeting home users.Apr 10 16:08
schestowitzLike changing foreign affairs from being profit drivenApr 10 16:08
oiaohmThey are targeting business.Apr 10 16:08
oiaohmWhere the money is.Apr 10 16:08
schestowitzAs in, a country going to war to generate wealth for some companies that make armsApr 10 16:08
schestowitzoiaohm: I know.Apr 10 16:08
oiaohmProblem we have is a lot of business beleive IDC reports.Apr 10 16:09
schestowitzoiaohm: they can make moneyApr 10 16:09
oiaohmYou might know they are crap.Apr 10 16:09
schestowitzMaking money does not encessarily mean comproising moralityApr 10 16:09
oiaohmBut I am sorry lot of dumb CEO's don't.Apr 10 16:09
schestowitzThat's just the key pointApr 10 16:09
schestowitzAnd you can regulate to enfiorce thisApr 10 16:09
schestowitzLike the Germans fines MS for collusion the other dayApr 10 16:09
schestowitzoiaohm: so these CEOs should be left to rotApr 10 16:10
schestowitzNo bailoutApr 10 16:10
*kentma1 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Apr 10 16:10
schestowitzNo 'stimulus'Apr 10 16:10
schestowitzThe problem is that people who harm society are rewardedApr 10 16:10
oiaohmDo you know what happens inside companies as there operations turn open source.Apr 10 16:10
*bananana ( has joined #boycottnovellApr 10 16:10
schestowitzThey control the core of some systemsApr 10 16:10
schestowitzLike those which reward franchisesApr 10 16:10
schestowitzoiaohm: user of developer?Apr 10 16:11
oiaohmLot of different companies start supporting projects.Apr 10 16:11
schestowitzSo user *and* dev?Apr 10 16:11
oiaohmSo to add the features they need.Apr 10 16:11
schestowitzYes, like in ApacheApr 10 16:11
schestowitzThat's fineApr 10 16:11
oiaohmYep in time.Apr 10 16:11
schestowitzIt's sharinfg valueApr 10 16:11
oiaohmBut you have to get them in first.Apr 10 16:11
schestowitzAlso reduction of wasteApr 10 16:11
schestowitzFor sure, they need to be pulled into itApr 10 16:11
oiaohmWhen they start sharing they start learning the open soruce moralls.Apr 10 16:11
schestowitzThat's why MS tried to hijack OSSApr 10 16:11
schestowitzTo make more companies servants of MS codeApr 10 16:12
schestowitzwith MS licencesApr 10 16:12
schestowitzSo that Microsoft reaps their laboursApr 10 16:12
schestowitz*labourApr 10 16:12
oiaohmIe Linux foundation is about getting them started.Apr 10 16:12
schestowitzIt's not just code BTWApr 10 16:12
oiaohmSo to you and me some of the things they do looks stupid.Apr 10 16:12
schestowitzChemistry, medicine, biology, poetry, cuisineApr 10 16:12
oiaohmWhen they work so be it.Apr 10 16:12
schestowitzBut sharing is daemonised by someApr 10 16:12
schestowitzLike Microsoft...Apr 10 16:12
schestowitzLike the MPAA..Apr 10 16:13
oiaohmIDC report worked well last year.Apr 10 16:13
schestowitzLike UKIPO..Apr 10 16:13
schestowitzTheir education goes like, if you have something valuable, keep it to yourselfApr 10 16:13
schestowitzContrariwise, some say you must share it ASAPApr 10 16:13
schestowitzThen you get creditApr 10 16:13
schestowitzScientists for exampleApr 10 16:13
schestowitzSome abstain from sharing their ideas, so they get just ignoredApr 10 16:13
oiaohmOpen Source is based on science.Apr 10 16:14
schestowitzoiaohm: well, I won't shut up about the ISC reportApr 10 16:14
schestowitz*IDCApr 10 16:14
schestowitzNor did I last yearApr 10 16:14
oiaohmI don't expect you to.Apr 10 16:14
schestowitzThey ptomote hypocrisyApr 10 16:14
schestowitzFighting nukes with nukes.Apr 10 16:14
schestowitzThen come the likes of NPDApr 10 16:14
schestowitzLying about Linux market shareApr 10 16:14
schestowitzAnd the LF can't take higher moral groundApr 10 16:14
schestowitzBecause that would be hypocritical.Apr 10 16:15
oiaohmLinux Foundation does not ask for the numbers to be altered.Apr 10 16:15
oiaohmOk made look good but truthful.Apr 10 16:15
oiaohmYes truth lies and statistics.Apr 10 16:15
oiaohmThere are many ways to present statistics that are miss leading.Apr 10 16:16
oiaohmYet not have 1 single lie in there.Apr 10 16:16
oiaohmIt is something IDC is exceptionally good at.Apr 10 16:16
*Omar87 (n=omar@ has joined #boycottnovellApr 10 16:17
Omar87HiApr 10 16:17
oiaohmLinux Foundation only has a reason to use IDC as long as businesses trust IDC.Apr 10 16:17
schestowitzWell, people should NOT trust themApr 10 16:18
schestowitzThere is PROOF against itApr 10 16:18
schestowitzShowing bribesApr 10 16:18
schestowitzShowing pressure to change reportsApr 10 16:18
schestowitzShowing Microsoft telling them what to doApr 10 16:18
schestowitzSo it's basically Microsoft lies dressed up with someone else's nameApr 10 16:19
oiaohmReally think of it this way.  IDC is like advertising in a newspaper for business usage.Apr 10 16:19
schestowitzAnd then they use IDC (their media offshoot) to pretend that IDC is the elite informationmasterApr 10 16:19
schestowitzoiaohm: it is. An advert that's MISLEADINGApr 10 16:19
schestowitzI wish to end this BS.Apr 10 16:20
oiaohmAnd IDC has done a great job set them selfs up as the elite information master.Apr 10 16:20
schestowitzEither by having them ignored (the better option) or shut downApr 10 16:20
schestowitzIf they get ignored, they'll cease getting businessApr 10 16:20
oiaohmNot using them blocks path into market.Apr 10 16:20
schestowitzIOW small business can't bribe IDC and can't competeApr 10 16:20
oiaohmBreaking the crediblity that no one trusts IDC not even MS would use them.Apr 10 16:20
schestowitzThis makes IDC a door keeper that virtually accepts bribesApr 10 16:21
schestowitzTo allow or deny entrantsApr 10 16:21
schestowitzNice, ain't it? :-))Apr 10 16:21
oiaohmIDC is a bad company that has got themselves into a key location.Apr 10 16:21
schestowitzAnd as I said, there is lots in BN that shows IDC|MS briberyApr 10 16:21
schestowitzoiaohm: it's unethicalApr 10 16:21
schestowitzWhat you say is absurb in a wayApr 10 16:22
oiaohmSo is lots of businessApr 10 16:22
schestowitzIt's like saying the US is OK for being in Iraq where it has a key location for oil distributionApr 10 16:22
schestowitzoiaohm: well, fineApr 10 16:22
schestowitzThat does not contradict what I arguedApr 10 16:23
schestowitzIt's a strawmanApr 10 16:23
oiaohmProblem here is doing business.Apr 10 16:23
oiaohmA person who takes complete ethical path on who they will and will not deal with in business normally ends up out of business.Apr 10 16:24
schestowitzNopeApr 10 16:24
schestowitzThe problem here is deception for pay and presentation as unbiased sourceApr 10 16:24
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, but that's a bad thingApr 10 16:24
schestowitzThis means that the corrupt survivesApr 10 16:25
schestowitzNice analysts who deliver turth don'tApr 10 16:25
schestowitzSo you end up with only sharks aliveApr 10 16:25
schestowitzNo small fishApr 10 16:25
oiaohmI know its a bad thing.Apr 10 16:25
oiaohmSharks like MS built the market this way.Apr 10 16:25
oiaohmLack of media regulation lets it happen.Apr 10 16:26
schestowitzPolice Powers and the UK Government in the 1980s < >Apr 10 16:26
schestowitzoiaohm: sharks and crime should be held accountableApr 10 16:26
schestowitzoiaohm: so which team are you willing to put effort into?Apr 10 16:27
*bananana ( has left #boycottnovellApr 10 16:27
oiaohmgroups like IDC need to be attacked.Apr 10 16:27
oiaohmStack of companies are forced basically to use them so they advertise as the best.Apr 10 16:28
oiaohmJust to stay in business.Apr 10 16:28
trmancoWindows Live Hotmail Suffers Temporary Outage: 10 16:29
oiaohmDon't advertise with IDC have your produce made out as the worst on earth.Apr 10 16:29
schestowitz "The idea of “open source” was once the domain of software geeks..." Errrrr. no. It /still/ is.Apr 10 16:29
schestowitzSo many people try to call anything on Earth "open source"Apr 10 16:29
schestowitzThe term loses meaning that wayApr 10 16:29
schestowitzoiaohm: remember it's not just IDCApr 10 16:29
schestowitzIDC owns IDGApr 10 16:30
schestowitzI.e. JavaWorld, NetworkWorld, InfroWorld, etc.Apr 10 16:30
trmanconot just Gmail hun?Apr 10 16:30
schestowitzLike 50 sites maybe...Apr 10 16:30
schestowitzSo they control the information about technologyApr 10 16:30
schestowitzIf you make them happy, they'll appoint your lackeys as 'journalists'Apr 10 16:30
schestowitzBy them I mean IDCApr 10 16:30
schestowitzThat's where most money is made, other than advertsApr 10 16:31
schestowitzWhitepapers is where it's at for them. The sellouts (=white papers)Apr 10 16:31
oiaohmAs I said IDC has set themselfs up well.Apr 10 16:31
oiaohmFighting them head on is a major problem.Apr 10 16:31
schestowitztrmanco: don't expect IDG to cover the outageApr 10 16:31
oiaohmIf you want to say in business.Apr 10 16:31
schestowitzThey onl;y cover Google problems of this kind :-)Apr 10 16:31
oiaohmGoverments have left IDC be.Apr 10 16:32
schestowitzoiaohm: phopronix advertises with IDGApr 10 16:32
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schestowitzA lot of stupid sites support them this wayApr 10 16:32
schestowitztrmanco:  "Various users have started reporting not being able to sign in to their accounts, and the fact that they received messages informing them that their inbox was gone."Apr 10 16:33
schestowitz:-) :-)Apr 10 16:33
schestowitzWelcome to Gmail, people.Apr 10 16:33
schestowitzIt's like the Conficker of the cloudApr 10 16:33
trmancololApr 10 16:33
trmancoI never had those Gail outages...Apr 10 16:34
trmancoGmail*Apr 10 16:34
schestowitzPandora open-source console delayed, but still on track < >Apr 10 16:34
trmancoIMAP was working... so no offline service for meApr 10 16:34
schestowitzAZune[sic] was down for 22 hoursApr 10 16:34
schestowitzBad update of WIndowsApr 10 16:34
schestowitzDoes Google use Windows? :-)Apr 10 16:34
schestowitzMicrosoft blamed Windows uipdateApr 10 16:34
schestowitzThey could be lyingApr 10 16:35
trmancothey probably do, not for servers thoughApr 10 16:35
schestowitzI'll do  a postApr 10 16:38
schestowitzGotta find a nice free pictureApr 10 16:39
EruaranDoes anyone have an opinion on a python ide or shall I just use kateApr 10 16:39
ushimitsudokiEruaran: For an open source project? Wing IDEApr 10 16:41
ushimitsudokiEururan: If you prefer a pure open source IDE, Komodo EditApr 10 16:41
EruarankApr 10 16:41
trmancoI use komodo edit for phpApr 10 16:42
trmancoYahoo Mail suffers 'brief' outage: 10 16:47
trmancowtf is going on?Apr 10 16:47
schestowitzInternet problemsApr 10 16:47
schestowitzNot newApr 10 16:47
schestowitzReported widelyApr 10 16:47
schestowitzNetwork fidelity seems downApr 10 16:47
schestowitzBN is sometimes unreachable to all,, my DNS is wonky....Apr 10 16:48
schestowitzAnd it's shown elsewhere that there are DDOS attacksApr 10 16:48
schestowitzIt's not a very Good Friday for Yahoo! and Microsoft, is it?Apr 10 16:49
schestowitztrmanco:  pingfm isn't working for me todayApr 10 16:50
trmancoNew Yahoo chief, Microsoft talking deals: 10 16:50
schestowitzThe button has had no effect since the morning.Apr 10 16:50
trmancoGoogle can't, but microsoft can... patheticApr 10 16:50
trmancoschestowitz, they were having some problemsApr 10 16:51
trmancobut they are fixed now, let me tryApr 10 16:51
schestowitzBut trmanco, Google runs the country... NOT. That would be MSFTApr 10 16:51
schestowitzAnd Bill the 'philanthropist'Apr 10 16:51
schestowitzhis dad and friends have connectionsApr 10 16:51
trmancoschestowitz, works hereApr 10 16:55
schestowitz thanks, trmanco Apr 10 16:55
trmanconpApr 10 16:56
trmancocracked macbooks are funnyApr 10 16:56
schestowitzYes, but probably true and exaggeratedApr 10 17:00
schestowitzThe site must be driving away Mac-using readers. i hope not...Apr 10 17:00
schestowitzNot to be too confrontationalApr 10 17:00
schestowitzAWStats says that 5.5 % of the visitors use MacsApr 10 17:01
schestowitzSounds about rightApr 10 17:01
schestowitzLinux--3 8.3 % this montnApr 10 17:01
schestowitzSounds about right ;-)Apr 10 17:01
schestowitzWindows @ 48.4 %Apr 10 17:02
schestowitzSo not yet a monopoly by some definitionsApr 10 17:02
schestowitzWhen Windows crosses 50%, then it becomes a problemApr 10 17:02
trmancois it idc or idg that's in bed with MS?Apr 10 17:05
trmancoChina denies cyberattacks on U.S. power grid: 10 17:05
schestowitzCliff Saran propagates the open source FUD by citing Forrester, which was paid (bribed) to slander Linux before.Apr 10 17:06
schestowitztrmanco: bothApr 10 17:06
schestowitzIDC owns IDGApr 10 17:07
trmancoah okApr 10 17:07
schestowitzIDC uses IDG to pretend thet IDG is GodApr 10 17:07
schestowitz*that IDG is GodApr 10 17:07
schestowitzAnd that Linux has 4% market share in netbooksApr 10 17:07
schestowitzThat too is being spread by IDG and generated by NPD, probably to help MicrosoftApr 10 17:08
Omar87HiApr 10 17:08
trmancohiApr 10 17:09
schestowitzOmar87: what do you think about today's posts?Apr 10 17:12
schestowitzI feel pleased with some of the material Microsoft gave us.Apr 10 17:12
*magentar ( has joined #boycottnovellApr 10 17:17
Omar87schestowitz: I'm checking them out now.Apr 10 17:17
Omar87schestowitz: What did they give you?Apr 10 17:17
*magentar has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))Apr 10 17:20

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