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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: April 18th, 2009

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oiaohmHere is the problem with TPB.  There are a lot of online shops that are really nothing more than middle men.    If the link argument worked.  The online shops could push for it.  Since they don't store make or even ship the product to you.Apr 18 00:01
oiaohmOnce you start saying a person is not responsable for what they are doing you are on a very fast slope to problems.Apr 18 00:01
MinceRnice evasion of the real point there.Apr 18 00:04
MinceRthe real point being _what_ are they doing reallyApr 18 00:04
oiaohmMinceR do I really care about the data they are sharing.Apr 18 00:05
MinceRi thought that was what the discussion was aboutApr 18 00:05
oiaohmReally the only thing I care about is that they take care of there end users.Apr 18 00:05
oiaohmFrom defective items.Apr 18 00:06
MinceRwhat they do is help peers locate each other to share data.Apr 18 00:06
oiaohmSame with a online shop helps locate items you want to buy MinceRApr 18 00:06
MinceRnope, an online shop has to do a lot more if it is to be a _shop_Apr 18 00:07
MinceRsuch as making sure the items get delivered and arranging paymentApr 18 00:07
oiaohmWhat is TPB VPN network.Apr 18 00:08
oiaohmGetting paid and making sure of delivery.Apr 18 00:08
oiaohmThey basically have become a shop just hidding where they are taking there percentage from.Apr 18 00:09
oiaohmEven a shop give links to free samples is responsable for the link.Apr 18 00:09
oiaohmWould you class it as fine for a shop to give you links to fake programs that said you were virus infected to sell you an anti-virus?Apr 18 00:11
MinceRwe weren't discussing the VPNApr 18 00:11
MinceRthe VPN is a service facilitating getting around fascist swedish law.Apr 18 00:11
MinceRtheir government has decided that the privacy of their citizens is worthlessApr 18 00:11
oiaohmIf they were not charging for it.   Then it was just avoiding law.Apr 18 00:12
oiaohmOnce you charge for something game is different.Apr 18 00:12
MinceRinteresting -- you were attacking them as if it was no different before you mentioned the VPN service.Apr 18 00:12
oiaohmOnce they started  the VPN service they basically become a shop.Apr 18 00:13
oiaohmRisk of them winning the just a link argument increased.Apr 18 00:14
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oiaohmIf they had stayed just a no charge setup.  Them winning did make on-line shops very simply get the same loop hole.Apr 18 00:15
MinceRyou mean decreasedApr 18 00:15
taconeincreasedApr 18 00:15
*MinceR doesn't get itApr 18 00:16
taconeops. no, decreased O:-)Apr 18 00:16
MinceRoh.Apr 18 00:16
MinceRIPREDator allows access to more than just TPB, doesn't it?Apr 18 00:17
oiaohmYes other users inside the vpn.Apr 18 00:17
oiaohmThey had taken reponsiablity for deliviery and was charging for it.Apr 18 00:18
oiaohmIe shop.Apr 18 00:18
MinceRso the VPN itself doesn't have a gateway to the internet?Apr 18 00:18
oiaohmNop.Apr 18 00:19
MinceRthat doesn't serve their standpoint at all.Apr 18 00:19
oiaohmNop in the sence no link from the vpn back to internet just to other members in the vpn.Apr 18 00:20
oiaohmSo it was purely for sharingApr 18 00:20
MinceRbut does the actual content get routed through the VPN?Apr 18 00:20
oiaohmYes.Apr 18 00:20
MinceRsounds like it defeats the whole purpose of bittorrentApr 18 00:21
oiaohmVPN can operate with decentrised linking.Apr 18 00:21
MinceRicApr 18 00:21
MinceRwell, got to catch some sleep alreadyApr 18 00:22
MinceRgnApr 18 00:22
oiaohmBefore vpn the argument was just over if it was free speech.Apr 18 00:22
oiaohmAfter the vpn you have a shop providing free stuff talking no responsablity for the quality of it.Apr 18 00:24
MinceRwith the VPN they only facilitate the authentication of peers and key exchange, don't they?Apr 18 00:25
MinceRthat's hardly "taking care of delivery"Apr 18 00:25
oiaohmWhy are people buying the VPN.Apr 18 00:25
MinceRso that they can communicate with the other people who pay for the VPN securelyApr 18 00:26
MinceRi'm not sure if excluding untrustworthy people is part of the plan, probably notApr 18 00:26
MinceR(that is, state/MAFIAA/whatever observers who would buy the service)Apr 18 00:27
MinceRthe delivery itself still relies on the same network for the most partApr 18 00:27
MinceRand comes from the same sourceApr 18 00:27
oiaohmLike a shipping company is not responsable for items they ship up until a point.   As soon as shiping company gives you list of items you can buy they are responsable for them even if they just ship them.Apr 18 00:28
oiaohmThis is the problem TPB case threated to undo lots of protections.Apr 18 00:28
oiaohmReal world protections.Apr 18 00:29
MinceRTPB is not an ISPApr 18 00:29
MinceRneither are they the content providerApr 18 00:29
oiaohmTPB become a shipping company providing a list as soon as they become a vpn.Apr 18 00:30
MinceRhow so?Apr 18 00:30
oiaohmISP is just a shipping company does not really provide you with a list.Apr 18 00:30
MinceRwhat sort of shipping does TPB do?Apr 18 00:30
oiaohmvpn network.  That is basically certified devery.Apr 18 00:31
MinceRyou still haven't explained why that would be.Apr 18 00:31
MinceRthey don't control what goes on in the VPN, only who gains access to it.Apr 18 00:32
oiaohmSame argument has been used by shipping companies.Apr 18 00:32
MinceRbecause (as you said) linking is decentralisedApr 18 00:32
oiaohmThey transport the box.Apr 18 00:32
oiaohmOr provide a way for the box to be transported.Apr 18 00:32
oiaohmNote the or.Apr 18 00:33
MinceRthat's subcontractingApr 18 00:33
MinceRTPB does not subcontract any ISPsApr 18 00:33
MinceRall they need to do is give their customers a certificate or a keyApr 18 00:33
oiaohmThey don't have to subcontract ISPs.Apr 18 00:33
oiaohmDo they provide a way for the box to be transported yes the VPN.Apr 18 00:34
MinceRno they don'tApr 18 00:34
MinceRthey don't provide the network links nor anything about themApr 18 00:35
MinceRonly the data necessary to set up session keysApr 18 00:35
MinceRthey don't even necessarily know what goes on over the linkApr 18 00:35
oiaohmCan you operate a cerfified shipping company having user directly pay another shipping company to move the item.Apr 18 00:36
oiaohmAnswer is yes.Apr 18 00:36
oiaohmSo no they don't need to own the links.Apr 18 00:36
MinceRwow, usian antitrust laws are working really great >> http://yro.slashdot.org/article...Apr 18 00:37
oiaohmIf they were just operating a vpn no legal problem.Apr 18 00:37
MinceRdoes the certified shipping company pay the other shipping company to move the item? yes they doApr 18 00:37
oiaohmIf they were just operating a list site they had a chance of winning.Apr 18 00:37
MinceRdo they arrange for that service? yes they do.Apr 18 00:37
MinceRdoes TPB pay the network operators, ISPs along the way to transport the data? no they don'tApr 18 00:38
oiaohmSome certified shipping companys just inspect the goods at each end.Apr 18 00:38
MinceRall they do is facilitate the encryption and integrity protection of the data along the wayApr 18 00:38
oiaohmAnd carry out the dispute with the shipping compnay if something gets damaged.Apr 18 00:38
MinceRand the other companies just do work for them for free, without needing to be asked?Apr 18 00:39
oiaohmNo person using the service pays the company doing the shipping directly.Apr 18 00:39
MinceRis TPB responsible if enough routers on the path to the other peer die and the other peer becomes unreachable? no they aren'tApr 18 00:40
MinceRof course not directly. indirectly.Apr 18 00:40
MinceRin the case of the VPN this payment does not happen through TPB.Apr 18 00:40
MinceRit happens through the ISPs the peers have contracted.Apr 18 00:40
MinceRthey are the ones who provide the transportation service.Apr 18 00:41
oiaohmHas TPB got directly involed in avoiding ISP filters and the likeApr 18 00:41
oiaohmSo taking up the dispute.Apr 18 00:41
oiaohmIts no different to a certified shipping company trying to sneak stuff that they should not though mail and the like.Apr 18 00:42
MinceRif you transport a shipment in a box and buy a lock to secure the box, do you hold the manufacturer of the lock responsible for failure to deliver the box after the lock was applied to it?Apr 18 00:43
oiaohmTransporters are not responsiable if they don't know the possiable contents of what they are shipping.Apr 18 00:43
oiaohmAs soon as you start transporting and you know then you are in legal trouble.Apr 18 00:44
MinceRso who's responsible then?Apr 18 00:45
oiaohmPerson who sets up the transport.Apr 18 00:45
oiaohmPerson providing the items.Apr 18 00:45
MinceRwhich isn't TPBApr 18 00:45
oiaohmPerson recieving the times.Apr 18 00:46
oiaohmVPN is setting up a transport system.Apr 18 00:46
MinceRall those people are peers, not TPB.Apr 18 00:46
MinceRnopeApr 18 00:46
MinceRVPN is setting up encryption and integrity protection of the data transportedApr 18 00:46
oiaohmStealthing the transport.Apr 18 00:46
oiaohmAnyone doing that is also at risk.Apr 18 00:47
MinceRdoes your ISP refuse to let your packets through if it can't decrypt the contents?Apr 18 00:47
oiaohmISP's don't have to.Apr 18 00:47
MinceRthen your analogy has failed.Apr 18 00:47
oiaohmDo they know that the contents in that encrypted transport contain items that it should not.Apr 18 00:47
oiaohmISP don't.Apr 18 00:48
MinceRdoes the certified shipping company know if the box is locked with a lock they can't open?Apr 18 00:48
oiaohmThe difference here TPB is not operating with a pure locked box.Apr 18 00:49
oiaohmIf TPB had no way to know any of the contents inside the VPN no legal trouble.Apr 18 00:49
oiaohmThey have put two incompadible items teoghter trying to avoid law.Apr 18 00:50
MinceRthey have no way to knowApr 18 00:50
MinceRand they don't want to have any way to know thatApr 18 00:50
oiaohmDo they not provide a list of avalid items to be shipped.Apr 18 00:50
MinceRand depending on how key exchange happens, that box can be pretty well locked up.Apr 18 00:51
oiaohmList + vpn dead meat.Apr 18 00:51
MinceRyou're still leaping to conclusions.Apr 18 00:51
MinceRbut i don't think i can convince you anyway. good nightApr 18 00:51
oiaohmIts not conclusions past cases with shipping companies covered the same line TPB tried.  MinceRApr 18 00:52
oiaohmYou cannot say you don't know what is in any of the boxs if you provide a list of items for people to get and some of them should not be sent.  Ok you don't know what boxes.Apr 18 00:53
oiaohmBut some boxs you are shipping are problems.  That is what the past cases said.Apr 18 00:54
oiaohmIn that case you are still reposnable to correct your list.  Or pay the price.Apr 18 00:54
oiaohmLaws don't let sitting on hands and doing nothing.Apr 18 00:56
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schestowitzMinceR: antitrust is OKApr 18 00:59
schestowitzAfter Vista7 there might not be much leftApr 18 00:59
schestowitzSo why bother with another Unisys?Apr 18 00:59
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schestowitzgnApr 18 01:16
silentivmgnApr 18 01:16
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_Hicham_Hi oiaohmApr 18 01:23
oiaohmHi _Hicham_Apr 18 01:25
_Hicham_any news?Apr 18 01:30
oiaohmNothing much.Apr 18 01:32
oiaohmJust lining up to build gimp.Apr 18 01:34
_Hicham_why build gimp?Apr 18 01:35
_Hicham_did u patched it?Apr 18 01:35
oiaohmverse patch.Apr 18 01:37
oiaohmSame reason why I patch blender.Apr 18 01:38
_Hicham_verse patch?Apr 18 01:38
oiaohmMeans to directly edit textures on a 3d model.Apr 18 01:38
oiaohmIe paint in gimp have it show up on blender straight away.Apr 18 01:39
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woofykewlApr 18 02:17
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schestowitzHeyApr 18 07:08
PetoKrausschestowitz: did you read the facebook documents?Apr 18 08:13
PetoKrausi see you votedApr 18 08:14
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schestowitzPetoKraus: heck no, I didn't read and I have FBApr 18 08:16
schestowitz:-DApr 18 08:16
PetoKraus:)Apr 18 08:16
PetoKrausi'm just reading trough itApr 18 08:16
PetoKrausjust to see what they came up withApr 18 08:16
PetoKrauslolApr 18 08:21
PetoKraus"4.4 You will not use Facebook if you are a convicted sex offender."Apr 18 08:21
schestowitzNovell Won’t Coordinate Releases with Canonical/Ubuntu < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/18/... >Apr 18 08:22
schestowitzPetoKraus: for each new term there's a storyApr 18 08:23
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oiaohmNovell not as dumb as they seam.Apr 18 08:29
oiaohmBy Coordinating releases whould have ment never for sure having a tech advantage.Apr 18 08:29
schestowitzFormer Microsoft cronies attack mjasay: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/1...Apr 18 08:35
schestowitzoiaohm: trueApr 18 08:35
schestowitzWhat's dumb about that?Apr 18 08:35
oiaohmSome people tried in another channel to make it that it was dumb not to line up releases.Apr 18 08:36
oiaohmSorry wrong note wrong channel.Apr 18 08:36
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_boo_oiaohm, invite them hereApr 18 09:03
_boo_we will have fun to watch datApr 18 09:03
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_boo_and in either case... i'm just intersted to see what linus told about gplv3Apr 18 09:15
_boo_even though i know that he's against itApr 18 09:16
_boo_seems like linus is a big problem from gpl3 to spreadApr 18 09:17
_boo_but he's not that big for gpl3 to spreadApr 18 09:18
_boo_and there should be even gpl4Apr 18 09:19
_boo_people are afraid of authoritiesApr 18 09:19
_boo_even "free" authouritiesApr 18 09:19
_boo_linus, you effing shouldn't feel effed up when someone is trying to enforce what your really wantedApr 18 09:21
oiaohmLinus has problems with the anti tivo in GPL3Apr 18 09:22
oiaohmSpliting OS secuirty from DRM protections is hard.Apr 18 09:23
_boo_lolApr 18 09:23
_boo_drm protections...Apr 18 09:23
_boo_you either support 'em or notApr 18 09:23
oiaohmTPMApr 18 09:30
oiaohmTPM prevents system from being altered.Apr 18 09:30
oiaohmGood from a secuirty point of view.Apr 18 09:30
oiaohmAlso good from a person wantting a DRM system.Apr 18 09:31
schestowitz_boo_: I could share some things from Linus correspondenceApr 18 09:34
schestowitzAnd yes, GPLv4 might come in the not--so-distant future.Apr 18 09:34
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, I raised that point too to him.Apr 18 09:34
schestowitzLinus: "I would hope that people start soem critical thinking, and realize that while the GPLv3 may be better in patent language, it's a lot worse in other respects."Apr 18 09:35
schestowitzI agree that there are other issues, such as the 'Googlisation' of source code (GPLv3 does not go this far). To prevent leveraging of one's work to exclude him/her, look no further than BSD and Mac OS X. But that's another issue. The subject of DRM aside, I think it boils down to considering and weighing pros and cons.Apr 18 09:35
schestowitzAlan Cox reached a different conclusion. I really hate software patents, but I realise they are a huge issue and they are not going away in this corruptible system we live in; hopefully we can stop them from _expanding_.Apr 18 09:36
oiaohmProblem with DRM is DRM was designed as a secuirty system.Apr 18 09:36
oiaohmUsage by media companies was not its first usages.Apr 18 09:36
schestowitzYupApr 18 09:36
schestowitzhe doesn't seem to understand everythingApr 18 09:37
schestowitzDid you see his rants in Groklaw?Apr 18 09:37
schestowitzPJ deleted his commentApr 18 09:37
schestowitzit was about DRM BTWApr 18 09:37
schestowitzLinus (yesterday): "I let people know what my issues were with the drafts. They had their idiotic dead horse to flog, and the end result is a GPLv3 that is crap."Apr 18 09:37
oiaohmI agree with Linus that gpl3 don't fit well with at OS core.Apr 18 09:37
schestowitzHe also said he *liked* tivoizationApr 18 09:37
schestowitzGPLv3 does have its flaws, but so are other things like patent law. Additionally, as time goes by, there is the compatibility issue. Other projects choose GPLv3 simply because they objectively prefer it. This may be obnoxious, but just like patent law, it's a very obnoxious reality.Apr 18 09:38
oiaohmLinux big market is the device market.Apr 18 09:38
schestowitzThere's also copyright assignment with other companiesApr 18 09:38
schestowitzLike those giving driversApr 18 09:38
oiaohmSo killing tivoization would effect that market.Apr 18 09:38
schestowitzIt harms a migration planApr 18 09:38
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, so...?Apr 18 09:38
schestowitzHe knows about Android nowApr 18 09:38
schestowitzLinus tells me: "If they had _just_ updated the patent language, this just wouldn't be an  issue. But nooo, there was a religious agenda to it, and the other updates made the GPLv3 unusable in my opinion."Apr 18 09:39
schestowitzThat's selfish of him... in a wayApr 18 09:39
oiaohmPatent language was a even bigger killer.Apr 18 09:39
schestowitzSome other developers care about those other changes (fewer people also choose AGPLvx). This is a form of teamwork where compromises need to be made; just as it's pointless to slam/dismiss GNOME as "GUI Nazis" only to find that their work is valuable and necessary, it's dangerous to completely disregard parts of the operating system that enrich it and appeal to a userbase.Apr 18 09:39
schestowitzoiaohm: bigger issue?Apr 18 09:40
schestowitzHow so?Apr 18 09:40
schestowitzI don't think he understands it fullyApr 18 09:40
schestowitzhe's not into politics remember.Apr 18 09:40
schestowitzHe brags about doing just the "engineering"Apr 18 09:40
oiaohmPatent langauge was not selective enoughApr 18 09:40
schestowitzBut here's the thingApr 18 09:41
schestowitzTo show you he misunderstandsApr 18 09:41
oiaohmSomeone designed a device patented it and had closed source userspace driver for it.Apr 18 09:41
schestowitzHe wrote: "I also think that the SFLC is rather self-serving, and populated mostly by  people who want to push the GPLv3 whether it makes sense or not. The fact is, the GPLv3 wouldn't actually have helped in the tomtom case anyway. At best, it might have put Tomtom's back to the wall - without any actual  improved outcome. What's the advantage of that?"Apr 18 09:41
schestowitzoiaohm: yes, but that's another issueApr 18 09:41
schestowitzAnd Linux should requested unencumbered codeApr 18 09:41
schestowitzRemember the petitionApr 18 09:41
schestowitzmany Linux devs signed it BUT NOT LINUSApr 18 09:41
schestowitzconspicuously missingApr 18 09:41
oiaohmFor device makers the need for encombered code is sometimes required.Apr 18 09:42
schestowitzHe is not against blobs in the kernel, hardly even as a preference.Apr 18 09:42
schestowitzoiaohm: too bad, eh? :-)Apr 18 09:42
oiaohmHe is against blobs where able in kernel space.Apr 18 09:42
schestowitzAnyway, See http://truthhappens.redhat.com/2008/06... "Red Hat Patent Settlement Compatible with GPLv3"Apr 18 09:42
schestowitzLinus didn't understand this, I thinkApr 18 09:42
_boo_lolApr 18 09:42
schestowitzThis basically means that a settlement with a company like TomTom would not leave other companies susceptible/vulnerable to similar offensive action. It defangs Microsoft as an effective patent aggressor and prevents more patent deals.Apr 18 09:42
_boo_i agree that gplv3 is not as goood as it should beApr 18 09:43
_boo_tat's kinda obviousApr 18 09:43
schestowitzI think he just sees Stallman's face in GPL and he regrets itApr 18 09:43
_boo_from the first readingApr 18 09:43
schestowitzLook at old interviews where he talks about itApr 18 09:43
_boo_schestowitzApr 18 09:43
schestowitzLinus (yesterday, though maybe it's too harsh): "But the GPLv3 people never seem to actually think things through. They  just shout "GPLv3! GPLv3! Everything is better in GPLv3!""Apr 18 09:43
_boo_he's just awaiting for a good gplv4Apr 18 09:43
schestowitzWhy would it be 'better'?Apr 18 09:44
_boo_noooApr 18 09:44
schestowitzIt would still oppose tivoisationApr 18 09:44
oiaohmThere would have been room for like a LGPL version for patents.Apr 18 09:44
schestowitz"Better" is very subjective and there are different parts as well as different projects to consider. Apr 18 09:44
oiaohmIe cannot apply patent agianst the soruce code.Apr 18 09:44
_boo_it just should fix the problems gpl3 hasApr 18 09:44
oiaohmIf using it.Apr 18 09:44
oiaohmItems out side source code not effected.Apr 18 09:44
schestowitzLinus will have the upgrade. He spoke about it in the context of OpenSolaris. When I corresponded with Marten Mickos it seemed as though he too realised that this issue of compatibility won't go away. Maybe it sucks for particular projects, but it could suck a lot more. Apr 18 09:44
schestowitz_boo_: would v3 be compatible with v4 then?Apr 18 09:45
_boo_yeaApr 18 09:45
schestowitzSoftware patents also suck and I come across more devices and businesses that try to change Linux so as to own (control) it a little better with their hooks. Apr 18 09:45
schestowitzLinus WILL careApr 18 09:45
_boo_but gplv4 should be a lot more making senseApr 18 09:45
schestowitzWhen he realised how he's being ripped off by Oracle or whoeverApr 18 09:46
schestowitzLike if they screw Red hat and suddenly he loses developersApr 18 09:46
schestowitzOracle is in OIN, but it could do funny things if it wanted to. Like TiVoised Unbreakable serversApr 18 09:46
schestowitzTo sell h/wApr 18 09:46
_boo_gplv3 is not flawlessApr 18 09:47
schestowitzActually, it's differentApr 18 09:47
_boo_that's what i've learned from reading itApr 18 09:47
schestowitzOracle could generally use locking mechanisms to sell its 'improved' Linux with better btrfs (better fs)Apr 18 09:47
_boo_that's why it's kinda spamming to make everybody to move to gplveApr 18 09:47
_boo_gplv3Apr 18 09:47
_boo_do when sane gplv4 is out i suspect that even linus will move to thatApr 18 09:48
schestowitz"Spamming" means something else altogetherApr 18 09:48
_boo_and even if he won't he will be forced toApr 18 09:48
schestowitzYou meant "nagging", I thinkApr 18 09:48
_boo_by the communityApr 18 09:48
_boo_just remember my wordsApr 18 09:49
oiaohmLinux still could add a extra patent clause to GPLv2Apr 18 09:51
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schestowitz"More benefits to Microsoft questioned at the Portuguese national parliament": http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/18/...Apr 18 09:57
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schestowitzMicrosoft is such a poor crocodile: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0...Apr 18 10:14
schestowitzHere are some reviews of my favourite distro, Mandriva http://www.techenclave.com/open-source/... http://news.softpedia.com/news/Softpedi...Apr 18 10:16
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Omar87Hi all.Apr 18 10:22
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DaemonFCschestowitz: Not counting the couple hundred separate hotfixesApr 18 10:23
DaemonFCjust SP1 and 2 alone fix 1,398 bugs in VistaApr 18 10:24
Omar87HiApr 18 10:34
schestowitzI heard about 2000 bugsApr 18 10:39
schestowitzHi, oiaohm Apr 18 10:39
schestowitz*Omar87: Apr 18 10:39
schestowitzThere was chatter about over 2000 bugs a few months agoApr 18 10:39
Omar87Yes, schestowitz?Apr 18 10:40
schestowitzThey should call it Windows 2000, not 7, but that would ruin the comparable reputation of win2kApr 18 10:40
schestowitzOmar87: any news?Apr 18 10:40
Omar87schestowitz: I'm not sure, lol. :)Apr 18 10:40
Omar87schestowitz: Oh, yeah, have you heard of the programming concert sponsored by Microsoft?Apr 18 10:41
Omar87schestowitz: The one called "Imagine Cup".Apr 18 10:41
schestowitzOh yeahApr 18 10:44
schestowitzIt makes me sick when I see itApr 18 10:44
schestowitzMaking the criminal some kind of althete superstarApr 18 10:44
schestowitzit addresses the ignorant followers of stuff like Windows, which is the only thing they know. It's ugly form of PR.Apr 18 10:45
Omar87schestowitz: I bet it's just another tactic for Microsoft to hunt some naive victims to steal their ideas like it did with Gary Killdall.Apr 18 10:45
schestowitzNot only Microsoft does this, BTWApr 18 10:45
schestowitzIt's worse when Microsoft uses handicapped people to conceal its crimes and damages to societyApr 18 10:45
*amarsh04 is verifying the cause of a kernel bug that made his new machine only use 1 of 2 cpu coresApr 18 10:46
Omar87Yeah, much worse.Apr 18 10:46
*amarsh04 still has to contact Bdale Garbee about linux.corp.hp.com running on iis when it states "powered by Debian"Apr 18 10:47
schestowitzTurning a perfectly fine nation into "banana republic" (Microsoft in the US): http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/18/mi...Apr 18 10:52
schestowitzamarsh04: Microsoft pressured Intel to move to IIS hostingApr 18 10:52
schestowitzMaybe it did the same thing with HPApr 18 10:52
DaemonFCschestowitz: Always wait for SP1Apr 18 11:04
DaemonFCis what you'll hear from any person that uses WindowsApr 18 11:04
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schestowitzOr Second Edition (98)Apr 18 11:08
schestowitzThe "let's try this again" editionApr 18 11:08
schestowitzSP2 = "this time we try to get it right" editionApr 18 11:09
schestowitzSP3 (XP): "our current OS is rubbish, so we decided to maintain old ones"Apr 18 11:09
schestowitzOf course, it's not graven in stoneApr 18 11:09
schestowitzVista 7= Vista SP2Apr 18 11:10
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schestowitzMicrosoft's plan for Xen backfires (a little late though): http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/18/...Apr 18 11:14
oiaohmMe was afk.Apr 18 11:16
oiaohmXen back fire is more  tech one.Apr 18 11:17
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oiaohmidea of hypervisor having its own kernel has a major draw back that memory management and the like is not shared with Linux.Apr 18 11:18
oiaohmXen is more dieing on tech grounds.Apr 18 11:19
oiaohmI think its funny MS has copied the design that cannot cope.Apr 18 11:19
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schestowitzBoycottNovell celebrates 6000 posts: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/... I think I can pace myself up a bit.Apr 18 11:28
trmanco:OApr 18 11:29
trmanco6000Apr 18 11:29
trmancowowApr 18 11:29
schestowitzYes, how it flew byApr 18 11:29
schestowitzAt about 10/day, it's 3600/yearApr 18 11:29
PetoKrausyou're efficient spammerApr 18 11:29
PetoKraus:PApr 18 11:29
schestowitzIn USENET it's about 50000 in 3 yearsApr 18 11:29
schestowitzPetoKraus: it's not spam. It's a mashup blogging style. Perfectly acceptable. See Slashdot or BoingboingApr 18 11:30
PetoKraus:) just joking manApr 18 11:32
PetoKrauseasyApr 18 11:32
schestowitzI know, I know.Apr 18 11:33
schestowitztrmanco: dragged me into microblogging tooApr 18 11:34
trmanco:)Apr 18 11:34
schestowitzSo I no longer do the old-generation stuff like Digg, which  is looking for people to just submit snippets of interestApr 18 11:34
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schestowitzIt ssems like twitter et al are exploding while Digg and Slashdot continue decliningApr 18 11:35
schestowitzDigg barely makes news headlines anymore. It's all "twitter" in the news. It's the new Digg as a media darling. Facebook is another.Apr 18 11:35
trmancohttp://tinyurl.com/d7eq4dApr 18 11:36
schestowitzYou could count in Google news the recurrence of the different sites (FB, Digg, Twitter) and see how it changes over time, but there is no Google Trends for news items alone AFAIK, just for search volume/queriesApr 18 11:36
schestowitzWe need to have Marti provide a good translationApr 18 11:37
schestowitzIt's an IDG site BTWApr 18 11:37
schestowitzThey might make an English version at some stageApr 18 11:37
PetoKrausi dunnoApr 18 11:37
PetoKrausi have been trough quite awkward situations latelyApr 18 11:37
PetoKrausso i considered micro-blogging itApr 18 11:37
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PetoKrausor at least doing a blogpost with satire about itApr 18 11:37
schestowitzDaemonFC: your post is in Vista 7 death watch: http://www.mixx.com/stories/477...Apr 18 11:38
schestowitzPetoKraus: for me, it mostly overlaps what I write here in IRC too. But many people don't IRC, so there it goes...Apr 18 11:39
taconenaApr 18 11:39
taconeusually it's non-english website to copy english websitesApr 18 11:40
oiaohmhttp://blog.xen.org/index.php/2009/...Apr 18 11:48
oiaohmIts not like xen is not making type II VMMApr 18 11:48
oiaohmSo far only for windows.Apr 18 11:49
schestowitzMaureen O'Gara: Novell Client for Windows Revved (still obsessed with MSNovell)Apr 18 11:49
schestowitzoiaohm: of courseApr 18 11:49
schestowitzCitrix hates LinuxApr 18 11:49
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schestowitzhttp://linux.sys-con.com/node/554197 ""Virtualization Is Now a Key Strategic Theme," [for Windows] Says Citrix CTO"Apr 18 11:51
oiaohmXen suxsApr 18 11:52
oiaohmReally suxsApr 18 11:52
oiaohm4 gb of real memory.  All hosted OS must get there memory.Apr 18 11:52
oiaohmSo running more than 8 OS on a Xen with 4 G of memory is death wish.Apr 18 11:53
oiaohmYet vmware can handle a lot more.Apr 18 11:53
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taconeschestowitz: pingApr 18 11:58
schestowitzACKApr 18 11:59
schestowitzSorry, got distractedApr 18 11:59
taconeschestowitz: remember zeitgeist ?Apr 18 11:59
schestowitzyesApr 18 11:59
schestowitzpythonApr 18 11:59
taconethe python etc thingApr 18 11:59
schestowitzyesApr 18 11:59
taconehere's an articleApr 18 11:59
taconehttp://seilo.geekyogre.com/2009...Apr 18 11:59
taconethe last part is "Now the fun part..."Apr 18 11:59
taconeactually something funny's in there.Apr 18 11:59
schestowitz"Jason Smith is working on a new project in Mono that uses the Zeitgeist engine."Apr 18 12:01
taconerightApr 18 12:01
schestowitzI remember the abstraction thingApr 18 12:01
schestowitzIs anyone ELSE making a front end?Apr 18 12:01
taconelol i dunnoApr 18 12:01
schestowitzhttp://jassmith.wordpress.com/Apr 18 12:01
taconei guess zeitgeist has already a frontend by the original developersApr 18 12:02
schestowitzhttp://jassmith.wordpress.com/?s=novell Not Found.Apr 18 12:02
taconehttp://jassmith.wordpress.com/?s=zeitgeist 404Apr 18 12:02
trmancotrmanco@trmanco-desktop:~$ time oowriter m1.484sApr 18 12:03
trmancouser0m0.024sApr 18 12:03
trmancosys0m0.048sApr 18 12:03
trmancothat's oo3Apr 18 12:03
schestowitz3.1 should be faster (maybe plat-dependent). I think it's out this monthApr 18 12:11
schestowitzJordan named All-Star  < http://www.journalgazette.net/article/2009... >. There's this basketball player called Novell who keeps showing upApr 18 12:12
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MinceRschestowitz: that's only a speculation. antitrust authorities shouldn't operate on speculations. they should oversee m$ until they lose their dominance on all markets.Apr 18 12:19
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schestowitzhttp://www.computerworld.com/action/ar... The value of Microsoft-related skills/certifications took the biggest tumble.Apr 18 12:29
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MinceRhayApr 18 12:52
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schestowitzSee http://www.noooxml.org/forum/t-148110...Apr 18 12:54
schestowitzMicrosoft is crimeApr 18 12:54
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schestowitzBSI member testifies the BSI is a farce: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/18/o...Apr 18 13:27
oiaohmopenxml is not MS first cheat.Apr 18 13:46
oiaohmEveryone forgets RTF.Apr 18 13:47
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oiaohmhttp://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/...  I like this.  Starting to wake up what netbooks are about.Apr 18 13:57
schestowitzhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?...Apr 18 14:07
schestowitzoiaohm: I think I read itApr 18 14:07
schestowitzJust brieflyApr 18 14:07
schestowitzHe sometimes admits the turth about MicrosoftApr 18 14:08
schestowitzUnlike blind fans like Ina ShielsApr 18 14:08
schestowitzHe taught me that only Windows and Ofifce make much profit for MicrosoftApr 18 14:08
schestowitzMicrosoft is hiding this pretty aptlyApr 18 14:08
schestowitzMerging of units tooApr 18 14:08
schestowitzNewspapers fight just like the Luddites once fought the machines.Apr 18 14:09
oiaohmLinux guy there and Windows guy there goes head to heat.Apr 18 14:13
oiaohmGets very flaming between them when 1 lies badly.Apr 18 14:14
oiaohmOne place with true blanced reporting.Apr 18 14:14
oiaohmI really wish I would make them share articals.Apr 18 14:15
oiaohmSecound I themApr 18 14:16
schestowitzWhere specifically?Apr 18 14:19
schestowitzAnd yes, it's sad when reporting becomes some sort of a cockfightApr 18 14:19
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schestowitzWikis are a place where opinions can coverageApr 18 14:19
oiaohmBetween Linux watch and Microsoft watch it happens from time to time.Apr 18 14:21
oiaohmBoth own to eweek.Apr 18 14:22
oiaohmBoth have learned its better to report something you don't like and it be the truth than start a flame war because you missed it.Apr 18 14:22
oiaohmOf course they still put spin on.Apr 18 14:22
oiaohmI was commneting on were the truth comes from in Microsoft watch.Apr 18 14:27
MinceRhttp://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl...Apr 18 14:45
oiaohmYes could.Apr 18 14:49
oiaohmDifference here Google has never refused taken down requests over items.Apr 18 14:49
schestowitzNot just eWeek does thisApr 18 14:49
schestowitz[Ziff Davis]Apr 18 14:50
schestowitzAlmost any news network plays the good cop, bad cop gameApr 18 14:50
schestowitzIt brings them traffic from both side and makes them defensileApr 18 14:50
schestowitzIt's trollingApr 18 14:50
oiaohmNot exactly trolling.  It was not exactly good cop bad cop.  Both were ripping out what the other had missed.Apr 18 14:53
oiaohmEnding up with windows supports and linux supporters starting to hate both of them.Apr 18 14:54
oiaohmSo not good for traffic.Apr 18 14:54
oiaohmZiff Davis kinda manages it so it don't kinda don't get out of control.Apr 18 14:55
oiaohmeweek leaves it to authors to show restraint.Apr 18 14:55
oiaohmFlame war between authors would have been a better term.Apr 18 14:56
oiaohmYes when you want news you don't want page after page of flamewar.Apr 18 14:56
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_boo_news were always not about news...Apr 18 15:35
schestowitzWhat about were they then?Apr 18 16:04
Omar87What is the only good thing Apple has ever done for the humanity?Apr 18 16:10
Omar87The development of the the Common Unix Printing System, which is licensed under GPL. :)Apr 18 16:13
amarsh04they bought that from EasyprintApr 18 16:14
Omar87amarsh04: I know.Apr 18 16:14
Omar87amarsh04: And that's why I didn't say they built it, because they didn't.Apr 18 16:14
amarsh04it was fairly mature by the time Apple bought it... of course, ongoing development is welcomeApr 18 16:15
Omar87amarsh04: From Wikipedia: "In February 2007, Apple Inc. hired chief developer Michael Sweet and purchased the CUPS source code.". What exactly does that mean?Apr 18 16:18
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Omar87amarsh04: I mean, what exactly do they mean by "purchased the CUPS source code"? The code is GPL'ed, so, how exactly did they buy it?Apr 18 16:19
MinceRthey bought the copyrightApr 18 16:21
MinceRso that they could distribute the binaries without the sourceApr 18 16:22
Omar87Oh, okay.Apr 18 16:22
schestowitzI'm amending BN slightlyApr 18 16:34
schestowitzmetatags ixed :-) Can you check?Apr 18 16:35
schestowitzWe used to have sitemap.xml, but the site is too big for the sitemap plugin now (CPU limits). Google grabs 300k pages/month anyway.Apr 18 16:35
schestowitzCategories and calendar added.Apr 18 16:35
schestowitzIt means more database load, but it ought to be fine overall.Apr 18 16:35
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twittergood morning, royApr 18 16:40
amarsh04copyright for CUPS project source was assigned to Easyprint, so it could be sold by Easyprint's owner(s)Apr 18 16:41
twitterCUPS is GPL, from /usr/share/doc/cups-common/copyright, "The Common UNIX Printing System(tm), ("CUPS(tm)"), is providedApr 18 16:45
twitterunder the GNU General Public License ("GPL") and GNU LibraryApr 18 16:45
twitterGeneral Public License ("LGPL"), Version 2, with exceptions forApr 18 16:45
twitterApple operating systems and the OpenSSL toolkit."Apr 18 16:45
twitter:)Apr 18 16:46
twitterSo, you own CUPS.Apr 18 16:46
twitterNon free software makers will run out of money before they can really disrupt the free software world through purchasing companies they think are weak points.Apr 18 16:48
schestowitzIs there any Wordpress plugin that take categories and makes summaries from headers in them or something of this sort?Apr 18 16:56
schestowitzHi, twitter Apr 18 16:57
schestowitzHow's Microsoft? ;-)Apr 18 16:57
schestowitzI saw the Vista/MS logs cited in some sites this morning. The Slashdot ones...Apr 18 16:57
schestowitzamarsh04; Omar87: Apple has many reasons to not say the "L" word. Apple is scared of Linux and CUPS was about benefit to Apple. Apple realises that people can't afford Macs right now, so Linux would be tempting to themApr 18 16:58
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amarsh04My impression of Apple Macintoshes was that they were supposed to "just work" and with OS X being BSD-based, CUPS was a natural fit for printing from MacsApr 18 17:01
twitterCool.  Got links to those sites?Apr 18 17:01
twitterYou have been doing a good job of tracking M$ while I've been busy.  Thanks!Apr 18 17:02
twitterJust updated the Windows 7 Failure Log.  http://slashdot.org/~twitter/jo...Apr 18 17:03
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_boo_i can't agree that 7 is vista2.0Apr 18 17:04
_boo_it's rather vista 1.1Apr 18 17:04
twitternon free software companies hype version numbers.  I'd call it Windows 0.14 by now.Apr 18 17:05
schestowitzWatch Microsoft crash: http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayRe...Apr 18 17:06
twitterTheir UI needs lots of love to get up to Enlightenment 0.16 quality standards.Apr 18 17:06
schestowitzwhile it lasts anywayApr 18 17:06
twitterbroken linkApr 18 17:06
schestowitz"Description: An application error occurred on the server. The current custom error settings for this application prevent the details of the application error from being viewed remotely (for security reasons). It could, however, be viewed by browsers running on the local server machine. "Apr 18 17:06
twitterniceApr 18 17:07
twitterI get " Sorry, the requested story has not been found. Please  click here to go back."Apr 18 17:07
schestowitzFirefox just crashed with over 1000 tabsApr 18 17:07
schestowitz*100Apr 18 17:07
schestowitztwitter: yes, they seem to have changed somethingApr 18 17:07
_boo_yeah, that's a big flaw in ff designApr 18 17:08
schestowitzThat's why there was a need to hurryApr 18 17:08
_boo_people usually use 3k tabsApr 18 17:08
schestowitz_boo_: I'm testing URLs in my postsApr 18 17:08
twitterthat's a lot of tabs.  how many desktops and browser windows do you lay them out over?Apr 18 17:08
schestowitztwitter: in this case it's a case of mass-checking linksApr 18 17:08
schestowitzAnd one oft hem gave a .NET crashApr 18 17:08
schestowitzRecgonisable pageApr 18 17:09
twitterha ha.Apr 18 17:09
twitter!NET sucksApr 18 17:09
twitterI generally lay mine tabs out 10 to 20 per instance of Konqueror but it's rare that I have more than four or five.Apr 18 17:09
twitter10 to 20 is a max.Apr 18 17:10
twitterUsually, I keep the tabs to a more sane 5 to 10Apr 18 17:10
_boo_i usually parse html with bare handsApr 18 17:11
twitterWhen I run Konq, I usually start an independent browser for each window.  One crash does not take the others down.Apr 18 17:11
twitterboo, it might be easier to use a text based browser and parse with grepApr 18 17:12
_boo_nooo it's for lazysApr 18 17:12
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schestowitzThe error in PRnewswire definitely changedApr 18 17:13
schestowitztwitter: I see obs that SPECIFICALLY require knowledge of HTML, not front eneApr 18 17:13
schestowitz*endsApr 18 17:13
schestowitzBTW, FF 2.0 was more table than 3.0 for me. 2.0 was SUPER stable. Comparably, FF3 is not the same; it rarely runs for 1 whole week without a crashApr 18 17:14
schestowitzA good metric might be something like crash/pageloadApr 18 17:15
twitter!NET aps crash at least once a day for me.Apr 18 17:15
twitterI got three failures one day.Apr 18 17:15
_boo_i'm obviously doing smth wrong... ff doesn't crash for meApr 18 17:28
twitterCan't say.  Still have FF2 but mostly othersApr 18 17:29
twitterspeaking of doing it wrong, http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl...Apr 18 17:30
twitterI liked the "you're better off taking the family to pizza" angle.Apr 18 17:31
twitterSlogan "The Internet does not start with an e"Apr 18 17:32
twitteror just "Internet does not start with an e"Apr 18 17:32
twitter:)Apr 18 17:33
twitterAvoid broken browsers, Internet does not start with an e.Apr 18 17:33
twitterAvoid broken OS, freedom ends where restrictions begin.Apr 18 17:34
MinceR"Everything Starts With An E"Apr 18 17:34
twitteroh myApr 18 17:35
twitterEverything bad starts with an eApr 18 17:35
MinceR(...and ends with a g)Apr 18 17:35
twitterWhen your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.Apr 18 17:36
twitter"Everything starts with an E"  Did the M$ people really come up with that?Apr 18 17:36
twitterIt sounds like them.Apr 18 17:37
MinceRnopeApr 18 17:38
schestowitzSomeone wants me to change the theme in BN. It's too complicated to change the theme in BN because some choice of colours and CSS styles were made with this theme in mind.Apr 18 17:38
MinceRit's the title of an Alice Deejay songApr 18 17:38
EruaranQuote of the day at work: "I think the same people who work at Microsoft also work at Symantec"Apr 18 17:38
twitterAll part of the same echosystemApr 18 17:39
twittersicApr 18 17:39
EruaranIt was a joke about the quality of the softwareApr 18 17:39
twitterecho my ecoApr 18 17:40
Eruaranwe had a customer whose computer wouldn't bootApr 18 17:40
twittercommonApr 18 17:40
EruaranHe had Vista... AND Norton 360... (glutton for punishment)Apr 18 17:41
twitterniceApr 18 17:41
EruaranHad problems with Norton so he called Symantec and let them remote into his systemApr 18 17:41
twitterdid he haul it in an SUV?Apr 18 17:41
EruaranAfter that it was totally screwedApr 18 17:41
EruaranhahaApr 18 17:41
EruaranHe brought it to usApr 18 17:42
twitterI wonder if they tried to remove SP1.Apr 18 17:42
Eruaranthose dumbasses at Symantec... seriouslyApr 18 17:42
Eruaranthey tried to install a newer version after uninstalling the old oneApr 18 17:43
twitterThat was the advice given to a friend of my by Dell.... no boot.Apr 18 17:43
Eruaranbut... you can't "uninstall" NortonApr 18 17:43
Eruaranyou have to use the removal toolApr 18 17:43
twitterIs there a restrictions song out there yet?Apr 18 17:43
Eruaranand then Norton blocked the networkApr 18 17:44
MinceRDRM song?Apr 18 17:44
MinceRor what?Apr 18 17:44
twitterRestrictions on my computer, restrictions in my dreams....Apr 18 17:44
EruaranWe had a Vista system saying "media disconnected"Apr 18 17:44
Eruaranbecause of NortonApr 18 17:44
twitterYeah, I'm wondering if anyone wrote a DRM theme song.Apr 18 17:44
EruaranBoot from a live Ubuntu CDApr 18 17:45
EruaranNetwork works fineApr 18 17:45
Eruaranbut anywayApr 18 17:45
twitterShould have installed it as Vista SP2Apr 18 17:45
Eruaranwe fixed it for himApr 18 17:45
twittertold them that they would have to use a compatibilty mode called Wine for their old software.Apr 18 17:46
MinceRstrange, digg lied that they'd remove the diggbar for anonymous visitorsApr 18 17:46
twitterthen tell them that they should take up problems with compatiilty with M$ themselves.Apr 18 17:47
MinceRwell, Fuck The MPAA by Futuristic Sex Robotz does mention DRMApr 18 17:47
MinceRbut it's mostly about the MAFIAAApr 18 17:47
twitterImagine the phone calls.  "I'm using Vista SP2, code named Ubuntu.  Why won't Office 2007 work with Wine?"Apr 18 17:47
twitter:-DApr 18 17:48
MinceRhttp://www.rockpapercynic.com/index.phpApr 18 17:48
twitterthanksApr 18 17:48
MinceRnpApr 18 17:49
_boo_maphiaaaApr 18 18:11
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schestowitzEU Commission: SCO’s “Contractual Relationship with Microsoft Invoking Restraints of Competition” < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/18/e... >Apr 18 18:34
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schestowitzI've been trying to see if there were automated ways of extracting something structural and useful, but it proved too hard. I reorganised the site a bit this afternoon (see if you can find the diffs).Apr 18 19:00
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schestowitzThe USA and UK are a mess. It's too hard to organise their mischiefs.Apr 18 19:10
schestowitzGuess who's promoting Microsoft software, other than Novell? http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/18/n...Apr 18 19:11
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_boo_lol, i've got banned from #socialites because i'm intolerant to fagsApr 18 19:26
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schestowitzIDC is not reliable, but it claims a steep decline in Russia too (PC shipments): http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/ne...Apr 18 19:56
_boo_it's because they raised prices after the new yearApr 18 19:58
_boo_and only now they are somewhat near to what they were before the new yearApr 18 19:59
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_boo_the prices were higher like about 25%Apr 18 20:03
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schestowitzGavin Clarke still plays cheerleader for MS in El Reg: "Microsoft targets Barmy Army with Silverlight" When did Reg wrong?Apr 18 20:03
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schestowitzhttp://labs.daylife.com/journal...Apr 18 20:07
schestowitzWhenever he writes about Linux he's being a f*ckwit, just polluting the Linux news with sick humour.Apr 18 20:09
schestowitz"RT @remixtures: Miltos Manetas is dedicating the First Internet Pavilion at the Venice Biennial to The Pirate Bay cause >>and now it's art" http://twitter.com/glynmoo...Apr 18 20:11
schestowitzUpdate on wikileaks in Germany: Alternative DNS/de < http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Alte... >Apr 18 20:13
schestowitzTurns out the man who was killed in G20 protests had a stomach-related problem, probably caused by the policeApr 18 20:13
schestowitz"Net books (Asus EEPC) 10m sold worldwide 2008. 2009 21m predicted."Apr 18 20:14
schestowitzhere's Microsoft's tool for software patents in the EU: http://www.euractiv.com/en/enlargement...Apr 18 20:25
schestowitzWhy the Pirate Bay verdict is GOOD for piracy  < http://neteffect.foreignpolicy... >. Will Google be sued next?Apr 18 20:25
schestowitzhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england... "Wiltshire Police officers have been banned from listening to music after the force received a €£32,000 bill from the Performing Rights Society (PRS)."Apr 18 20:27
schestowitzmaking money from people's ignorance: UK wine-sellers declare that wine has horoscopes, advise wine-drinkers to avoid certain moon-days < http://www.boingboing.net/2009/04/1... >Apr 18 20:29
schestowitzhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/norm...Apr 18 20:32
schestowitzTwo technologists of Indian origin to decide for the US as CIO and CTO (good choices) http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2009/04...Apr 18 20:36
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amarsh04after wasting a lot of time with re-installation, kernel bisection and possible bugs, I now conclude that the problem I had with the new pc was not resetting the BIOS to defaults after a BIOS upgradeApr 18 20:39
schestowitzBalrog: new FUD against Apple: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.ph...Apr 18 20:40
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schestowitzhttp://www.google.com/news?hl=en&...Apr 18 20:40
schestowitzamarsh04: why did you update the BIOS?Apr 18 20:41
schestowitzRebuttal to the Apple accusations: http://maratux.blogspot.com/2009/04...Apr 18 20:42
amarsh04I was having some "fun" getting sound working and handling ACPI, schestowitzApr 18 20:42
Balrog_FUD against Apple, FUD against Linux, more FUD means they're getting desperateApr 18 20:42
amarsh04I'd rather test the bleeding edge and keep it working on my own pcs than first encounter issues when someone else asks for helpApr 18 20:43
*_boo_ has quit ()Apr 18 20:58
schestowitzWashington seems to be too corrupt to cater for its citizens' needs: http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/35935Apr 18 21:19
schestowitzKDE is collecting lots of new ideas for v4: http://blog.sayakbanerjee.com/?p=247Apr 18 21:25
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schestowitzNo ARM for OLPC? XO Laptop Gen 1.5: with VIA C7-M 1GHz Performance!! < http://www.olpcnews.com/laptops/xo... >Apr 18 21:38
Balrog_???Apr 18 21:43
schestowitzDumping Windows for Ubuntu <  http://livewithoutwork.com/2009/04/d... > \o/Apr 18 21:47
schestowitzBalrog: !!!Apr 18 21:48
schestowitz"After playing around with Ubuntu for a week, and noticing further deteriorations (either that, or I was just not in the mood for being sympathetic with Windows) I decided that it was time for another wipe all, reinstall all session, only this time, I decided that I wasn’t going to reinstall Windows at all, I was going to have a Ubuntu only machine. "Apr 18 21:49
Balrog_that's good.Apr 18 21:51
amarsh04schestowitz, original announcement at http://lists.laptop.org/piperma... if olpc news doesn't reference itApr 18 21:54
schestowitzFist mono, now this? Dconf in GNOME 3.0 : one step further to Windows registry ? < http://www.linux-wizard.net/blog-dconf_in_g... >Apr 18 21:55
schestowitzPutting/mapping the day Magee left the Reg and INQ, I can make sense of the change. Those two publications might be worth dumping now... :-(Apr 18 21:56
schestowitzCollapse of the economy using bar analogy: http://treebeard31.wordpress.com/200... "Oh come on, the crisp sound of the effervescence rising to the mouth of the bottle, now THAT is the most satisfying sound on the entire planet." punchline: "The recession is worse than a divorce.You lose hApr 18 22:00
schestowitzalf your fortune and still have your wife"Apr 18 22:00
*magentar has quit (Remote closed the connection)Apr 18 22:02
schestowitzHmmm.. this didn't quite work: Switching To KDE From Gnome < http://www.customdistros.com/2009/0... >Apr 18 22:02
schestowitz"...Then they fight you" -- Microsoft's Inferiority Complex On Display in New Ads < http://www.daniweb.com/blogs/ent... >Apr 18 22:07
MinceRthey don't have inferiority complex. they're inferior.Apr 18 22:10
schestowitzWell, that's saying the same thing.Apr 18 22:13
schestowitz"35% of NHS organisations already use Linux in the backbone" http://blog.procurementleaders.com/proc...Apr 18 22:23
schestowitzZDNet UK seems to have added an anti-Linux/FOSS writer, Jonathan Bennett.Apr 18 22:26
schestowitzMOG's blog on Linux features more Linux poison from Lori MacVittie: "Dear Slashdot: You Get What You Pay For"Apr 18 22:29
*ScrewMSFT (i=5d616bd2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-75db04683a2ed815) has joined #boycottnovellApr 18 22:30
schestowitzHiApr 18 22:30
trmancololApr 18 22:30
schestowitzheheApr 18 22:30
schestowitztrmanco: what did you mean earlier?Apr 18 22:30
ScrewMSFThiApr 18 22:30
schestowitzAbout changing?Apr 18 22:30
schestowitzOh, Iseee..Apr 18 22:30
trmancoschestowitz, that dconf thingApr 18 22:30
schestowitz" Make a change to a different desktop manager, maybe KDE..."Apr 18 22:30
schestowitzKDE is also getting something similar thoughApr 18 22:31
schestowitzAs in GCong evolutionApr 18 22:31
trmancoit's like the title suggests, first mono then dconfApr 18 22:31
schestowitzLiqidat wrote about it last yearApr 18 22:31
schestowitztrmanco: later ActiveHacksApr 18 22:31
trmancook so maybe I should go back to plain text?Apr 18 22:31
schestowitz“At Microsoft I learned the truth about ActiveX and COM and I got very interested in it inmediately [sic].” --Miguel de IcazaApr 18 22:31
ScrewMSFTwtf #boycottnovel??Apr 18 22:32
schestowitzAye :-)Apr 18 22:32
schestowitzWhy WTF?Apr 18 22:32
ScrewMSFTi must be in the wrong placeApr 18 22:32
schestowitzBased on the nick it sounds right though :-oApr 18 22:32
ScrewMSFTi thought this was a microsoft hatemongering channelApr 18 22:32
trmancothis is the right place to say  "ScrewMSFT"Apr 18 22:32
ScrewMSFToh sweetApr 18 22:33
ScrewMSFTyeah... um... Screw Microsoft!!Apr 18 22:33
trmancoI'll brbApr 18 22:33
ScrewMSFTi mean MSFTApr 18 22:33
schestowitzAs the price of Windows dives close to $0 MSFT's last resort is making GNU/Linux expensive.Apr 18 22:33
schestowitzAnd some people wonder why Microsoft is the issueApr 18 22:33
schestowitzAnd now Adobe for exampel..Apr 18 22:33
schestowitzschestowitz: well, if we discuss particulars it helps a lotApr 18 22:34
ScrewMSFTimagine if m$ made their own branded linux flavour to break the unix marketApr 18 22:34
schestowitzWe often discuss here what Microsoft is thinking, scheming and executingApr 18 22:34
schestowitzschestowitz: where would the margins be?Apr 18 22:34
schestowitzWhat about sw compat?Apr 18 22:34
schestowitzThey are stuck with TudOSApr 18 22:35
schestowitzThey can TurdOS or Vista7Apr 18 22:35
schestowitzThat does not change the internals much.Apr 18 22:35
*ScrewMSFT (i=5d616bd2@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-75db04683a2ed815) has left #boycottnovellApr 18 22:36
schestowitzLinux Foundation using Drupal < http://buytaert.net/linux-founda... >Apr 18 22:38
schestowitzT'so won't like this: Linux: Drivers Should NOT be Closed Source < http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2009/... >Apr 18 22:38
schestowitzAndroid all over the news and Google reports good results http://www.eetimes.eu/consumer/216500223 http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/... http://ostatic.com/blog/confirmation... http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Search-Eng...Apr 18 22:39
MinceRT'so wants proprietary drivers?Apr 18 22:40
schestowitzYou didn't hear? Let me find itApr 18 22:47
schestowitzhttp://thunk.org/tytso/blog/...Apr 18 22:48
schestowitzI'll do a quick pass through MSFT news. Should be lots of fun...Apr 18 22:50
schestowitzvery little news from them this week, matching "microsoft". Just 430Apr 18 22:51
schestowitzused to be ~600 at times (last year)Apr 18 22:51
schestowitzSlicing on "Vista" I hold 5 resultsApr 18 22:51
schestowitzLet's look..Apr 18 22:51
schestowitzJust fluff and "Vista capable"Apr 18 22:52
schestowitzWow. Only 3 matches for "Windows 7" this weekApr 18 22:53
schestowitzWindows 7 used to outnumber Vista by a factor of 3-5. Maybe Edelman and the other shills didn't pressure enough journalackeys this week (Easter)Apr 18 22:53
schestowitzThat new survey totally rained on Vista7. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30229756/Apr 18 22:54
schestowitz Vista Class Action Reaches End of the Road < http://www.consumeraffairs.com/ne... >Apr 18 22:55
schestowitz"Microsoft will NOT offer free support or warranty coverage on the XP software once I install it." http://www.capitolhillblue.com/node/17347Apr 18 22:56
schestowitzXBox has already cost MSFT about $7bn in losses and XBox360 still defective http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-s... Microsoft Stuck Fixing Broken Xbox 360s For Free, Again (MSFT) Apr 18 22:58
schestowitzYahoo and Microsoft... two nagetives don't make positives... How Microsoft and Yahoo! Let Google Win < http://www.ebizq.net/blogs/conne... >Apr 18 23:01
*trmanco has quit ("ERROR: crap-talking overflow - Aborting")Apr 18 23:02
MinceRi'd sentence people asking for proprietary drivers in linux to use crap like the official nvidia driversApr 18 23:04
MinceRand cope with the gazillion bugs in itApr 18 23:04
MinceRand ask them if KMS works in the official proprietary nvidia and ati drivers, and if it doesn't, whyApr 18 23:04
schestowitzBarclays says "near-term results could disappoint." [for Microsoft]Apr 18 23:05
schestowitzResults should be out very shortly, I thinApr 18 23:05
schestowitz*thinkApr 18 23:05
MinceRsure, why not put the maintenance of drivers exclusively in the hands of companies who don't care about our platform?Apr 18 23:05
schestowitzMinceR: T'So works for IBM. Enough said.Apr 18 23:05
schestowitzHe's CTO for kernelFoundation now, so it's not a very good sign.Apr 18 23:05
MinceRwe'll see if they kill linux from withinApr 18 23:06
schestowitzDoubtfulApr 18 23:06
MinceRthere will always be hurd :>Apr 18 23:06
schestowitzJust change it. There's no GPLv3 in kernelFoundationApr 18 23:06
schestowitzThey also put their videos as blobs and patents up thereApr 18 23:06
schestowitz[flash, no Oggs ANYWHERE]Apr 18 23:06
schestowitzThe toilet press has this headline: "Another Microsoft Enemy Joins EC Complaint" http://soa.ulitzer.com/node/924626Apr 18 23:07
MinceRpeople seeking the joys of working around bugs in proprietary drivers should just go ahead and use windowsApr 18 23:08
schestowitztake-home message: opposing crime is being "an enemy"Apr 18 23:08
schestowitzLet's try some headlineApr 18 23:08
schestowitzAnti-Reiser protesters want judticeApr 18 23:08
schestowitz"Enemies of tyranny complain"Apr 18 23:08
schestowitz"Anti-death protests overwhelm streets"Apr 18 23:08
schestowitzRemember: in Microsoft's world, crime is goodApr 18 23:09
schestowitzOpposition to crime is dissentApr 18 23:09
schestowitz[H]omer has an analogy with a cop and criminalsApr 18 23:09
schestowitzThe criminal hating the cop for catching him. That disgusting cop!! He must be so hatred.Apr 18 23:09
schestowitz*hatedApr 18 23:09
MinceRwe have no cops thoughApr 18 23:10
MinceRonly criminals and people with very few means to protect themselvesApr 18 23:10
schestowitzSeeing lots of Apple vs Microsoft headlines makes me think of two people in their 90s fighting over who has more teeth leftApr 18 23:11
schestowitzThe press is filled with this mafufactured drama storyApr 18 23:11
schestowitzThey ignore the real competition between paradigmsApr 18 23:11
schestowitzIt reminds me of how the big press treats election as white vs black (McCain vs Obama), where both represent the same funding source and interrests. People like Nader get ignored.Apr 18 23:12
schestowitzMinceR: so make a coalition, bring justice to consumer who can boycott or vilify, serving the role of a juryApr 18 23:13
schestowitzThat's the least sites like Groklaw can doApr 18 23:13
MinceRm$ and crApple should just step down to stop doing more damageApr 18 23:14
MinceRi'm starting to miss the reliability of kde3Apr 18 23:14
schestowitzOh! Lookie here. CNET gives the soapbox to yet another pro-Microsoft analyst (Directions on Microsoft): http://news.cnet.com/8301-13526...Apr 18 23:15
schestowitzBias by sleectionApr 18 23:15
schestowitzCNET is f*cked with or without CBS buying itApr 18 23:15
schestowitzAll those HUGE conglomerates and scooping up all the sites and change agenda to praise the white collars.Apr 18 23:16
*schestowitz enjoys the reliability of kde3Apr 18 23:16
schestowitzCan Microsoft Keep Windows Mobile Up-to-Date? < http://www.microsoft-watch.com/conten... .Apr 18 23:17
schestowitzMicrosoft wants to turn unemployed to Microsoft vassals: http://www.heraldnet.com/article... < Business Briefly: Local unemployed to get free tech training from Microsoft >Apr 18 23:17
schestowitzhttp://www.14wfie.com/Global... "Champion suggests investing in spyware like AVG, which is free, to avoid future viruses, and install Microsoft updates regularly. "Apr 18 23:19
schestowitzCommon logic suggests investing in a blank CD like Verbatim, which is free, to install Linux and avoid future viruses, and install good stuff regularly. Apr 18 23:20
schestowitzImportant question: what does gates gain from this other than PR? http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/art...Apr 18 23:23
schestowitzMicrosoft expected to post sharp drop in profit < http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Micro... >Apr 18 23:24
schestowitzhere is the reason why Microsoft is screaming like a baby at Apple|Linux: http://www.businessweek.com/ap/f...Apr 18 23:26
schestowitzMicrosoft states the very obvious: Economic crisis threatens to spark rise in cyber crime http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Bu...Apr 18 23:28
schestowitzMy sister's employer has just been infected by the beast of Redmond: http://www.tradingmarkets.com/...Apr 18 23:33
schestowitzMounting job losses in non-financial sectors < http://www.reuters.com/article/rbss... >Apr 18 23:34
MinceRthe linked article doesn't seem to argue for proprietary drivers, afaictApr 18 23:36
schestowitzhere is the Mifrosoft-run VMware already serving Windows: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Gardner/?p=2901Apr 18 23:37
schestowitzIs Facebook losing its glow? < http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/15/t... >Apr 18 23:39
schestowitzMinceR: Tso?Apr 18 23:39
MinceRindeedApr 18 23:39
schestowitzWhoa. Watch this headline. It looks like it came from within Microsoft which uses the term "death spiral" epically.  http://www.pcmag.com/article2... Apr 18 23:41
schestowitz"by  Loyd Case" Did he learn English from Microsoft's internal memos? He uses their terminology...Apr 18 23:41
MinceRalso, NPDApr 18 23:43
*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-132-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovellApr 18 23:44
schestowitzwb, _Hicham_ Apr 18 23:48
schestowitzDid NPD say something similar?Apr 18 23:48
_Hicham_Hi schestowitz, how are u doing?Apr 18 23:48
schestowitzNPD is just the sort of agency you hire for a dirty jobApr 18 23:48
schestowitzLike the mafia and a hitmanApr 18 23:48
schestowitzTell them what figure you want, they'll coordinate itApr 18 23:48
schestowitzThat's how they make monetApr 18 23:49
schestowitzThey can select some shops in an area that you channel-stuffApr 18 23:49
schestowitzThey do this for all sorts of companies though. MSFT is a regular clientsApr 18 23:49
schestowitz*clientApr 18 23:49
schestowitz_Hicham_: I'm ok, tnxApr 18 23:49
schestowitzI found some very cool things tonightApr 18 23:50
schestowitzMS put its people as CEOs in vmware and juniperApr 18 23:50
schestowitzhttp://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnal...Apr 18 23:50
schestowitzSo now they serve WindowsApr 18 23:50
schestowitzvery easy to show, the evidence is there.Apr 18 23:50
*kentma (n=user@ellandroad.demon.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovellApr 18 23:50
MinceRschestowitz: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0... refers to NPDApr 18 23:53
_Hicham_fuck vmware if it is infected with MS shitApr 18 23:54
MinceRvmware did one thing well: breaking after a few kernel upgradesApr 18 23:54
schestowitzMinceR: http://online.wsj.com/article/BT...Apr 18 23:56
schestowitzhave lots of funApr 18 23:56
schestowitzlike i said in usenet, make popcornApr 18 23:56
schestowitzthat was before these reportsApr 18 23:56
schestowitzlinux killed win marginsApr 18 23:56
MinceRi hope the market gets the pointApr 18 23:56
MinceRand sells MSFT shares like they're on fireApr 18 23:57
schestowitzOK, I'm done with dinner. Can type with both hands now. :DApr 18 23:57
taconeshall we expect new trials ?Apr 18 23:57
MinceRnot reallyApr 18 23:57
taconesco/black hole effect ?Apr 18 23:57
MinceRat least as long as obama thinks he's paid enoughApr 18 23:57
schestowitztacone: some inevestors intended to sueApr 18 23:57
schestowitzTHe ones who spoke to meApr 18 23:57
taconeto sue who ?Apr 18 23:58
schestowitzMissing money, bad direction.Apr 18 23:58
taconeohApr 18 23:58
schestowitztacone: I'lll get linksApr 18 23:58
taconei meant, shall we expect new trials from ms to other companies ?Apr 18 23:58
schestowitztacone: maybe.Apr 18 23:58
schestowitzThey opened the pandora's boxApr 18 23:58
schestowitztacone: this is a recent and decent summary: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/0...Apr 18 23:59
schestowitzI included there (with permission) what one representative told me.Apr 18 23:59

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