Responses to GNOME Foundation’s OOXML Statement

Posted in Formats, Free/Libre Software, GNOME, GNU/Linux, Open XML at 2:00 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Early weekend’s reactions

From BJörn Lindqvist:

Re: GNOME Foundation Statement on ECMA TC45-M Participation

BJörn Lindqvist
Sat, 24 Nov 2007 19:11:47 -0800

On Nov 24, 2007 8:27 PM, Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> There is no “neutral game” being played here. Concerns were raised that the
> GNOME Foundation’s participation in EMCA TC45-M suggested that we supported
> OOXML becoming an ISO standard. Thus, the answer was simple: We do not.

Well except that our representative on that committee supports OOXML
becoming an ISO standard… Please stop the charade, getting involved
in the process was a stupid mistake to begin with and continuing to do
it while the hypocrisy shines through is just boneheaded. How on earth
can offering constructive criticism, feedback and helping develop a
specification NOT be supporting it??

From Alan Cox

Re: GNOME Foundation Statement on ECMA TC45-M Participation

Alan Cox
Sat, 24 Nov 2007 09:09:57 -0800

> Don’t change the subject. The statement I quoted is trollish. There is
> no need to say we are shooting at our own feet repeatedly. Especially
> without any argument (I do not mean just text in an email). The
> announcement was not neutral.

The perception from outside is very clearly that you are active
participants and its being used in that way.

That would appear to be “shooting at own feet”

Perhaps you’d care to critique the relevant points instead of jumping up
and down like a small child going “ner ner na ner ner”


From Rui Miguel Silva Seabra

Re: GNOME Foundation Statement on ECMA TC45-M Participation

Rui Miguel Silva Seabra
Fri, 23 Nov 2007 16:45:32 -0800


Funny then, that even after nothing being done by GNOME on TC45 since
July (previous to OOXML vote on September 2) ECMA is still claiming
GNOME participates in the disposition of comments:


Yes, the language is deceptive. Careful readers will notice they don’t
plainly say it, rather they insinuate it. It’s one of the main tactics
of lying with the truth.

Since the Foundation clearly wouldn’t lie about not doing anything since
July, here’s more evidence of people abusing the role of GNOME Foundation
on ECMA’s TC45.

The more you guys keep playing the neutral game, the more you’ll get
abused like this. Don’t cry about people who criticize the Foundation’s
“unconditional support” for OOXML, you’re pointing guns at your own feet
(and in fact just took another shot).


I’ve also received the following by E-mail from a reader who shall remain anonymous:

It’s hilarious how he [Jeff Waugh] keeps harping on about contacting him first before publishing anything about Gnome … like you’re not entitled to an opinion without his say so. He wants your questions and dissent driven underground, so it becomes just a private conversation between you and him, thus keeping all those dirty little secrets safe.

I’ve been following the vast amount of dirt being dug up on Gnome, Novell, OOXML, Waugh, de Icaza, and others over on BN today (your “brainstorm” and link to the Groklaw article were particularly enlightening), and I must admit that even *I* was surprised at how deeply corrupted all the various parties really are. It’s much, *much* worse than I originally imagined.


As for Gnome … I’ve read enough just *today* to convince me that I don’t want it anywhere near any of my systems … any more than I’d taint them with Sues® Linux. I had major problems with Fedora 8, that I’m still working my way through, but once I do finally deploy it across the network, you can be sure that one of the very *first* things I do is wipe Gnome off those systems, even if (as is the case) it means sacrificing some of the GUI configuration utilities shipped by Red Hat and Fedora (they use Gnome/Gtk libs). I’m rather wary of Enlightenment (even though it is excellent) because it rather stupidly (IMHO) uses the BSD license, so I’ll be switching to XFCE for now, and possibly KDE at a later stage.

I’ve been a Gnome user since … forever, but today it ends. The friendly little Gnome has grown up to become a nasty big Troll.

I was actually very sad to hear this, but we must let such open messages give the impression and justification that BoycottNovell.com is crowd, not a couple of blokes ranting.

One thing I can tell you is that BoycottNovell.com received an unusual level of traffic yesterday (quiet readers, i.e. no comments left). I haven’t checked to see where exactly they all come from, but maybe this indicates that we’ve touched a gentle spot, which I believe we did. There was no trolling or baiting involved. We were merely pointing at various Web sites that show GNOME’s role in ECMA, among other things.

Share in other sites/networks: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Reddit
  • email

If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.

Pages that cross-reference this one


  1. e-2e#t said,

    November 25, 2007 at 4:27 am


    Now you have reached another low. After Jeff Waugh has made you look really trollish (it’s what you actually are) you don’t dare making your hilarious accusations yourself anymore but instead quote readers’ e-mails that repeat exactly the ridiculous stuff they’ve read on your website.

    Concerning the anonymous e-mail you’ve quoted above:
    Don’t act sorry. It was _you_ who has scared this naive user away from GNOME – so take ‘pride’ in your ‘success’ here! This is what comes of your slandering blog.

    With friends like you, GNOME doesn’t need enemies.

    Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from an abusive Internet troll

  2. TaQ said,

    November 25, 2007 at 7:54 am


    It’s amazing the way eet and some others make their comments. Seems that there is some kind of pattern, maybe an intensive course for “friends of the interoperability” going somewhere, or at least a little book with all the rules … oh, wait, they can say the same about us, forget about that. :-)

    Well, let’s forget about eet for a minute. There are going some really nice discussions about that on some mailing lists, as the GNOME Foundation one, and not just here. Let’s watch and see what happens. Really GNOME people, friends of GNOME, people who lived for it’s original purpose, talking there. Not us, the “trolls”. Maybe you can take a look there and tell us what you think, eet.

  3. Slated said,

    November 25, 2007 at 8:05 am



    Speaking of “nasty big Trolls” … with Trolls like you defending Gnome and Novell, they really don’t need enemies.

    You state that Roy has “reached another low”, whereas all he has actually done is quoted other’s opinions, including those of some very prominent figures in the community. I suppose you’re going to claim that Alan Cox is just a Troll too, are you?

    It’s time for you to face the fact that Gnome has sold out just as much as Novell has (no surprise there, given the very obvious connections).

    At a time when GNU/Linux is starting to win the war against Microsoft, people like de Icaza, Waugh, and others seem determined to stick a spanner in the spokes of the wheel, and sabotage those gains, by playing their part in poisoning GNU/Linux with encumbered Microsoft technology.

    The GNU/Linux community should be rejecting OOXML, Sliverlight, .NET, and all of Microsoft’s other “sour-grapes” reinventions … not embracing them. Why anyone in the community would even begin to want to poison GNU/Linux with that technology is a mystery.

    I am sick of people on the other side of the argument using excuses like “don’t think in black and white terms” and “let’s be pragmatic”. To Hell with pragmatism. The very foundation of GNU/Linux is idealism … not “selling out” to the enemy.

    People like you will not be content until every GNU/Linux user in the world is required to pay a license fee to Microsoft, and the previously Free software tree becomes closed, proprietary, Microsoft property.

    Every time someone in the Free Software community supports Microsoft technology, we take one step closer to oblivion.

  4. Victor Soliz said,

    November 25, 2007 at 9:10 am


    “eet” : It may be easy to move the responsibility away from the gnome foundation and blame this site for its mistakes. But the thing is that regardless of this site’s ways of reporting, which you keep criticizing it won’t change the fact that the gnome foundation is simply not taking the right decisions here.

  5. -ezzzE*t said,

    November 25, 2007 at 11:03 am


    Who are you to define ‘right’?

    You might not have noticed, but GNOME is a representative democracy. Its board is an elected body that has full and legitimate authority to make decisions about its direction. I will never be able to make _everyone_ happy with its decisions, but it listens, and being elected it represents the views of the _majority_ of the people interested enough in GNOME to cast a vote.

    Once the board is elected, the board makes the decisions; not a bunch of extremists that just shout loud enough.

    Go take part in the board elections, or run for GNOME’s board yourself, if you’re not satisfied with any candidate.

    Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from an abusive Internet troll

  6. Roy Schestowitz said,

    November 25, 2007 at 3:03 pm


    Once the board is elected, the board makes the decisions; not a bunch of extremists that just shout loud enough.

    Once again you’re trying portray us as crazy barbarians. Don’t think that I don’t notice your constant nymshifting, E-mail address shifting, and wildly changing IP addresses. If you don’t try to be polite, we’ll have to delete your comments, since we can’t cage them before they are posted with personal attacks and strong language.

  7. Jeff Waugh said,

    November 25, 2007 at 3:06 pm


    Note that I haven’t asked Roy to contact me before publishing anything about GNOME. I have suggested to him that he contact me (or the Board) to do research so that he can post facts (or opinions of the stakeholders involved) instead of posting insinuations.

    He has this opportunity because we are an open community. Despite all the ugly attacks, I’ve kept my door open. He has yet to visit.

  8. Roy Schestowitz said,

    November 25, 2007 at 3:48 pm



    In a sense, I reach out to GNOME when I research stuff. I don’t necessarily write to individuals, but I can read their Web pages and read (even cite) articles they write. When it comes to asking a question, it is hard to know which one/s to ask. The only solution is peer review (send complete text for feedback or editing), which for blog posts and comments isn’t quite so pragmatic.

  9. Jeff Waugh said,

    November 25, 2007 at 4:18 pm


    The only solution is peer review? When you have open access to the stakeholders who know what’s going on, and you write such dramatic, combative insinuations? You are attempting to avoid the obvious in every way you possibly can, which is sad for the community you hope to assist.

  10. @w'e"eät said,

    November 25, 2007 at 4:36 pm


    @Roy Schestowitz: “Don’t think that I don’t notice your constant nymshifting, E-mail address shifting, and wildly changing IP addresses.”

    You are paranoid. I only change my name here to avoid your censorship. I bet you would be deleting Jeff Waugh’s comments already, if you could do that stealthily, Great Defender of our freedom…

    Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a known, pseudonymous, nymshifting, abusive Internet troll

  11. Roy Schestowitz said,

    November 25, 2007 at 4:38 pm


    If I asked questions for clarification on issues where there’s uncertainty, there would still be some bits that someone is unhappy with. It is not possible to predict what phrase will rub someone the wrong way. For example, an innocent technical misunderstanding can lead to the wrong conclusions. Sometimes, the sources that get cited are wrong (e.g. LinucPlanet on de Icaza intending to rewrite GNOME with Mono). I’m doing the best that I can given the time which is available. Things are moving quickly in the Linux world nowadays.

  12. Roy Schestowitz said,

    November 25, 2007 at 4:41 pm


    You are paranoid. I only change my name here to avoid your censorship.

    Ta muchly for the contradiction du jour.

    I bet you would be deleting Jeff Waugh’s comments already..

    Never. He is polite. Unlike you, who is going as far as verging Godwin’s Law… and you have annoyed other Webmasters as well… ones that deleted you comments and wanted you banned for good.

  13. @w'e"eät said,

    November 25, 2007 at 4:53 pm


    “and you have annoyed other Webmasters as well”
    One, to be exact, and yet we still talk/post to one another. He’s got class, though he is a lunatic; you are just a slimeball.

    Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a known, pseudonymous, nymshifting, abusive Internet troll

  14. @w'e"eät said,

    November 25, 2007 at 4:58 pm


    And BTW, I think Rodney Dawes has has something to say to you:

    “Well, for all those people who want to bemoan the world with their trifles about Microsoft trying to subvert the free world, here’s a hint:

    Shut the hell up!

    If all you’re going to do is bitch and moan about it, then you’re not part of the solution. You’re part of the problem.”

    Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a known, pseudonymous, nymshifting, abusive Internet troll

  15. rlilly@yahoo.com said,

    November 25, 2007 at 5:22 pm


    Rodney Dawes is from Novell past or present?

  16. Jeff Waugh said,

    November 25, 2007 at 5:27 pm


    Few in GNOME appreciate Rodney’s input.

  17. Roy Schestowitz said,

    November 25, 2007 at 5:39 pm


    From Rodney Dawes:

    “So kudos to those involved in the ECMA OOXML process. More of you should be involved.”

    *LOL* I can’t wait to blog about some of the latest bits from FFII, e.g.:


    “Microsoft lobbyists should not draft German procurement policies or interpret them legally.”


    “Microsoft sponsors DIN conference

    An american company sponsors a lobby event for its Open XML format which is organised by the German standard body and takes place in a German ministry.”


    “Gnome foundation in kahoots?


    Having a delegate in the ECMA T45 Committee the Gnome foundation clarified its involvement in a superb standard development and bashes the vendor.


    The Gnome foundation actively participated in the ECMA fast-tracking of Open XML as a sock puppet for Novell. Now the Foundation clarified its position that came under recent criticism.”

  18. @w'e"eät said,

    November 25, 2007 at 5:54 pm


    Really a repulsive little slimeball, isn’t he?

    Note: comment has been flagged for arriving from a known, pseudonymous, nymshifting, abusive Internet troll

  19. Rodney Dawes said,

    January 3, 2008 at 1:52 pm


    Jeff. Please. You aren’t GNOME. You’re just one of the “people” in it. Plenty of people appreciate my commentary. While you aren’t one of them, please do not go slandering like you are speaking for the entire community. There are just as many people who don’t appreciate your input, output, or anything else about you either.

    But whatever. You know the truth. Those who see short, fall far. But have fun trying to mock me some more. I’m sure your insults will be very professional and appear in other blog comments across the internet as well.

  20. Roy Schestowitz said,

    January 4, 2008 at 1:39 am


    Rodney, You’re talking to the man who called de Icaza “an embarrassment” and called me all sorts of things as well.

What Else is New

  1. EPO Staff Representation Complains That EPO Management Exploits Pandemic and 'House Arrests' to Overwork Staff, Lower Quality

    The EPO keeps breaking its promises to workers; not only are key employees seeing their net salary cut (inflation factored in) but pensioners too are being robbed and in the meantime the total time spent on work is increasing

  2. Fake News is Not a 'Wing' Thing

    The two-party corporate-led system (and media) would have us obsess/bicker about accuracy of news based on some binary/dual system of blind loyalty rather than underlying facts and priorities

  3. Links 25/1/2021: Huawei on GNU/Linux, NuTyX 20.12.1, Whisker Menu 2.5.3, Lutris, Linux 5.11 RC5

    Links for the day

  4. Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt (FUD) in ZDNet is the Norm

    ZDNet continues to emit lots of garbage 'journalism', in effect Microsoft PR and what's known as "black PR" for Linux; just like Bleeping Computer, which ZDNet hired this writer from, there's no adherence to facts, just smears and innuendo

  5. Truth Tellers Aren't an Enemy of Free Software

    There's a perpetual attack on people who speak out against actors and corporations in positions of great power, however subtle and indirect those attacks may seem on the surface (they don't wish to be held accountable for defaming activists)

  6. The Linux Foundation, With Over 124 Million Dollars in Annual Revenue, is in Trouble Because of the Pandemic, So It's Trying to Reinvent Itself as Training and Certifications Outfit

    With mountains of cash and a Public Relations (PR) or marketing business model the so-called 'Linux' Foundation became reliant on travel, lodging, booths and speeches on sale; COVID-19 is a great risk to that business model

  7. IRC Proceedings: Sunday, January 24, 2021

    IRC logs for Sunday, January 24, 2021

  8. Our Move Further Away From the World Wide Web, the Browser Monopolies, HTTP, and HTML

    The World Wide Web (WWW) is going down a bad path and a clearly regressive direction; the solution isn't going 'retro' but exploring more sophisticated systems which are robust to censorship (localised or globalised) and downtime (related to censorship) while reducing surveillance by leveraging encryption at the endpoints

  9. Important Issues Not Entertained in the Community, Especially Critics of the Status Quo

    here's corporate infiltration inside communities (for oligarchy hunts volunteer, unpaid labour) and those who speak about that as a threat to our cause and objectives are painted as misguided outcasts who must be ignored

  10. Internet Origins of the Mob

    Reprinted with permission from Daniel Pocock

  11. When Proprietary Software Users Dictate the Freedom-Leaning Communities

    Fedora doesn't care about software freedom and its steward (or parent company) is sometimes imposing proprietary software on staff; they've quit caring

  12. In 2020 Onwards 'Open Source' is Just a Marketing Ploy of Monopolies, Unlike Free Software

    More people are nowadays seeing or witnessing 'Open Source' for what it truly is; the term has become a misleading marketing term of proprietary software firms looking to rebrand as "ethical" (e.g. by sharing some code with other proprietary software firms, over proprietary platforms such as GitHub)

  13. Microsoft: The Year After We Bought GitHub There Was a Significant Decline in Number of New Projects on GitHub

    Microsoft has just admitted that in 2019 GitHub saw a very significant decline in number of new projects (and users, which it is conveniently miscounting by adding 'phantom' ones) on the site. Just what we had heard before they confirmed it (and they foresaw this effect of the takeover, hence the lies about "loving" Linux).

  14. Social Control Media is a Passing Fad, We Should All Go Back to Blogging and Subscribing to RSS Feeds

    The whole "social control media" phenomenon has been oversold or promoted using lies; in reality, as a mountain of evidence serves to show, it's a way to manage society at a macro scale

  15. As Andrei Iancu Removes Himself From the Patent and Trademark Office All Eyes Are on Biden's Next Nomination

    Patent zealots and their front groups already lobby Joe Biden to put one of them in charge of the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office; we'll soon see if Joe Biden "means business" or simply means monopoly/large corporations (and their law firms/departments)

  16. Data Point: GNU/Linux Share in Desktops/Laptops Nearly Tripled in the Past Decade, Peaking This Past Month (All-Time High)

    Contrary to what some publishers try to tell us, GNU/Linux is still growing and mostly at the expense of Windows

  17. IRC Proceedings: Saturday, January 23, 2021

    IRC logs for Saturday, January 23, 2021

  18. Links 24/1/2021: Nouveau X.Org Driver Release and GhostBSD 21.01.20

    Links for the day

  19. InteLeaks – Part XXX: Harbor Research's Pseudo-scientific 'Research' for Intel, Bizarrely Suggesting a Microsoft Partnership for a Domain Largely Controlled or Dominated by Linux

    The full document that Intel paid for and in turn used to justify cracking down on Free software (obliterating Free software-based workflows inside Intel), instead outsourcing all sorts of things to proprietary software traps of Microsoft

  20. Chromium and Chrome Are Not Free Software But an Example of Microsoft-Fashioned Openwashing Tactics

    It's time to reject Google's Web monopoly (shared with other companies but still an oligopoly); removing its Web browser would be a good start

  21. Links 23/1/2021: Chromium Pains and New Debian Maintainers

    Links for the day

  22. InteLeaks – Part XXIX: Harbor Research Did Not Produce a Study But an Elaborate Hoax for Intel, Suggesting Microsoft Partnership and Outsourcing Based on Zero Evidence and No Solid Rationale

    The pseudo-scientific ‘report’ from Harbor Research is more of the same nonsense we’ve grown accustomed to; unethical if not rogue firms are being paid to lie — or to perpetuate falsehoods which someone stands to gain from

  23. Video: The State of Communities Surrounding GNU/Linux Distributions

    A discussion about the state of volunteer efforts going into the development, maintenance (in the 'maintainership' sense) and support/advocacy of GNU/Linux distros

  24. IRC Proceedings: Friday, January 22, 2021

    IRC logs for Friday, January 22, 2021

  25. InteLeaks – Part XXVIII: Intel Served Report From Microsoft Boosters, Who Provide No Actual Evidence and No Science to Back Their Supposed 'Findings'

    Findings and recommendations from Harbor 'Research' aren't based on any scientific methods, just perceived loyalty, branding, and a bunch of unsourced quotes (from unnamed people with ridiculous job titles like a soup of buzzwords)

  26. Erosion of Communities, Ascent of Corporate-Industrial Fake Communities

    Despite the attempts to manipulate/trick developers (and sometimes users) into becoming unpaid workforce of for-profit companies, there's an exodus back to real communities, which aren't subjected to the fury of wealthy shareholders who utterly dislike or simply don't care for software freedom

  27. The Corporate 'Left' and the Open Source Pseudo 'Movement'

    President Biden may not be as bad as his predecessor, but that hardly means very much; software freedom is still threatened, along with many other things

  28. Links 22/1/2021: pfSense Plus, Endless OS Foundation, and Many Laptops With GNU/Linux

    Links for the day

  29. The Linux Foundation is Trying to Obscure Racism Using Microsoft-Inspired Tactics (Vouchers Disguised as Actual Money)

    The Linux Foundation and its PR stunts don’t help combat racism; one might argue that the Foundation is leveraging racism, which prevails in the US, to paint itself as benevolent and caring (offering immaterial things and self-serving press releases)

  30. InteLeaks – Part XXVII: 'Pulling a Nokia' on Intel (Outsourcing to Microsoft)

    The recommendation of an Intel marriage with Microsoft (even in units that deal mostly with Linux) is an insulting slap across the face of developers employed there; we take a look at recommendations made to IoTG (Intel) by a firm with Microsoft orientation

RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

Recent Posts