| *AntiNovell (n=kvirc@190.40.254.213) has joined #boycottnovell | Jul 05 05:42 |
| AntiNovell | hi | Jul 05 05:42 |
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| AntiNovell | friends | Jul 05 05:42 |
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| schestowitz | Hi, AntiNovell. | Jul 05 05:44 |
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| AntiNovell | speak spanish | Jul 05 05:44 |
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| schestowitz | Me? No Spanish. | Jul 05 05:46 |
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| AntiNovell | you what distro linux o bsd use | Jul 05 05:47 |
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| schestowitz | I tested various distros on my new PC this week. I really liked Mandriva 2008.1 (KDE), so it's worth trying in the future. | Jul 05 05:48 |
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| AntiNovell | I use PCBSD UNIX and Debian | Jul 05 05:49 |
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| AntiNovell | PCBSD unix 1.5 based in FreeBSD 6.3 | Jul 05 05:49 |
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| AntiNovell | is OS genial | Jul 05 05:49 |
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| schestowitz | I wanted to try a BSD at some stage. I never did. | Jul 05 05:49 |
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| AntiNovell | packages the PC-BSD is pbi(pcbsd installer) | Jul 05 05:50 |
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| AntiNovell | y similar a dmg the Mac oS X | Jul 05 05:51 |
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| AntiNovell | http://www.pcbsd.org/ | Jul 05 05:51 |
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| schestowitz | Will it handle GRUB when installing? There's still something in Mandriva. I used Mandrake on two PCs before, but after Mandriva 2008.1, I'm a fan! | Jul 05 05:52 |
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| AntiNovell | I working in proyect PC-BSD UNIX | Jul 05 05:53 |
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| AntiNovell | We create a BSD for desktop | Jul 05 05:53 |
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| schestowitz | PC-BSD seems like the most reasonable BSD choice (to me, anyway). It's also KDE based and I love KDE. | Jul 05 05:55 |
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| schestowitz | In many ways, the BSD and Linux communities are really the same. The Linux kernel imakes up only about 3% of Debian. GNU/Linux distros have BSD bits and BSD distros have (L)GPL bits. | Jul 05 05:56 |
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| AntiNovell | tried PCBSD | Jul 05 05:57 |
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| AntiNovell | try | Jul 05 05:57 |
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| AntiNovell | www.pcbsd.org | Jul 05 05:57 |
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| AntiNovell | bye | Jul 05 05:57 |
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| *Topic for #boycottnovell is: Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications (publicly logged) | Jul 06 08:08 |
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| *Topic for #boycottnovell is: Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications (publicly logged) | Jul 06 15:17 |
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| *Topic for #boycottnovell is: Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications (publicly logged) | Jul 06 15:33 |
| *Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Wed Jun 4 04:34:16 2008 | Jul 06 15:33 |
| -ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel | Jul 06 15:33 |
| schestowitz | Very interesting: http://www.newsweek.com/id/54423 Just found this good explanation for the SAP/Novell love affair. It was already obvious, but this is a smoking gun' in a way. | Jul 06 19:37 |
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| kentma | schestowitz: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/0... | Jul 07 09:57 |
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| schestowitz | How timely. Ta! | Jul 07 10:07 |
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| kentma | schestowitz: I was somewhat amused when I saw that :-) | Jul 07 10:09 |
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| kentma | No sign of tessier. Please pass on my apologies for being rude if you speak. | Jul 07 10:09 |
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| schestowitz | I'm sure he reads (/will read). Those outbursts have to stop. You did the same to Kier. | Jul 07 10:11 |
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| kentma | schestowitz: It would be nice to. Mostly I'm fairly unprovokable, but when I'm stressed, then my resistance to provocation can degrade, and I can become irritated and impatient, which can lead me to vent my frustration. Probably I should be better at avoiding such situations, but I'm me. | Jul 07 10:18 |
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| *blackrabbit nibbles on green grass | Jul 07 10:27 |
| schestowitz | Hi, blackrabbit | Jul 07 10:28 |
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| blackrabbit | hello schestowitz | Jul 07 10:29 |
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| blackrabbit | how are you today? | Jul 07 10:29 |
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| schestowitz | I'm OK. Moved my work to home over the weekend. Microsoft has meanwhile been busy in the EU (BSA and ACT, by proxy). Linspire is over, which is a relief. | Jul 07 10:30 |
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| blackrabbit | what a joke that is | Jul 07 10:33 |
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| blackrabbit | lindows and mike row soft | Jul 07 10:33 |
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| blackrabbit | both doomed ventures | Jul 07 10:33 |
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| blackrabbit | if I had a similar business name, you wouldn't see me rolling over for cake and cream pies | Jul 07 10:33 |
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| blackrabbit | does no one stand up for anything anymore, even themselves!? | Jul 07 10:34 |
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| schestowitz | Well, Microsott owns acronyms now too. | Jul 07 10:34 |
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| blackrabbit | and souls | Jul 07 10:34 |
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| schestowitz | MSN for example, in Holland. It's in the dictionary... recent story in case you haven't seen it. Don't forget Open Office->OpenOffice.org. | Jul 07 10:35 |
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| blackrabbit | I've taken a few days break from following M$ news | Jul 07 10:36 |
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| blackrabbit | every once in awhile I need a buffer to retain my sanity | Jul 07 10:36 |
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| schestowitz | Not much has happened actually. Microsoft's presence isn't what it used to be. Hardly any new products, lots of predictions of demise. It's the Microsoft proxies that do all the anti-FOSS work at the moment. | Jul 07 10:39 |
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| blackrabbit | IMO I believe Gates will try and try until he gets into some area of American politics | Jul 07 10:40 |
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| blackrabbit | this is the saving grace IMO | Jul 07 10:40 |
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| blackrabbit | they should fire ballmer if they wanted to clean up their image, IMO, but why would I want that to happen | Jul 07 10:41 |
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| blackrabbit | the LOC deal still concerns me, as with the silverfish special olympics plugin | Jul 07 10:41 |
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| schestowitz | Well, to address the points in turn: Gates already *is* in politics. Feds are controlled the most behind the scenes. Last week I caught Gates selling Microsoft shovelware to the UK, which loves FOSS | Jul 07 10:44 |
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| kentma | blackrabbit: I think they really need to change out all their senior management, but even that might not be enough. Corporate culture tends to embed from top to bottom... | Jul 07 10:44 |
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| blackrabbit | *nods* | Jul 07 10:45 |
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| schestowitz | As for Ballmer, Microsoft is having a hard time with or without him. Putting some novice in change won't work. See Mary Jo's recent article in CNET (yes, CNET). There's nobody who can replace Ballmer. The top people left. | Jul 07 10:45 |
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| schestowitz | *charge | Jul 07 10:45 |
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| kentma | they need outside talent now. | Jul 07 10:45 |
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| blackrabbit | I believe ( <legal> IMO </legal> ) Gates will remain firmly tied to Microsoft, if not more powerful than before, but appearing to be far removed by most people's standards | Jul 07 10:45 |
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| kentma | Hmm, perhaps I should brush up my CV O:-) | Jul 07 10:45 |
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| schestowitz | kentma, they tried outside people. | Jul 07 10:46 |
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| blackrabbit | I read one interview, maybe I can find and quote it, where he said he wasn't going away | Jul 07 10:46 |
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| blackrabbit | did you read the news article about google people going to ms now? | Jul 07 10:46 |
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| kentma | schestowitz: True, I don't think that there were enough, or that they were senior enough. | Jul 07 10:46 |
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| blackrabbit | I was wondering if that was a shill article | Jul 07 10:46 |
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| *moparx has quit ("leaving") | Jul 07 10:46 |
| schestowitz | To give some examples, take the CFO (Kiwi from the paper industry) and some other VCs that came _totally from the outside_. | Jul 07 10:46 |
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| blackrabbit | personally, I believe most powerful corps have plants in rival companies most of the time anyhow | Jul 07 10:46 |
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| schestowitz | blackrabbit, it could go either way. People need some echibits to support a hypothesis like this (man bited dog). | Jul 07 10:47 |
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| schestowitz | *bites | Jul 07 10:47 |
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| schestowitz | Did you notice yesterday's departure of Microsoft's main man in SA? It was the same with Novell a year ago, just after The Deal. | Jul 07 10:48 |
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| blackrabbit | Google should become a PC OEM | Jul 07 10:49 |
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| blackrabbit | roll out Linux and the rest of the OEMs would follow | Jul 07 10:49 |
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| schestowitz | Oh! And it's the same in China and India by the wat. India's MD left a month ago amid a huge fiasco (OOXML). | Jul 07 10:49 |
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| blackrabbit | no, schestowitz, I missed that one, I have a lot of catching up to do, thanks for the few newsworthy mentions | Jul 07 10:49 |
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| schestowitz | blackrabbit: Google does right by sticking to mobile platform/s. | Jul 07 10:50 |
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| schestowitz | Chasing the desktop is like chasing the mainframe in an age of Blades. | Jul 07 10:50 |
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| blackrabbit | schestowitz, unless a revolutionary new pc design was released with linux | Jul 07 10:51 |
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| blackrabbit | open bios, etc. | Jul 07 10:51 |
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| blackrabbit | open 3d card, all the trimmings | Jul 07 10:51 |
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| blackrabbit | did you see the nvidia stock drop? | Jul 07 10:51 |
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| blackrabbit | I'd be interested in the % of people overall who purchase from nvidia using linux | Jul 07 10:52 |
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| schestowitz | Well.. | Jul 07 10:53 |
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| schestowitz | Be sure to see DeviceVM and ASUS. They revolutionize 'the desktop' -- whatever that is-- already. | Jul 07 10:54 |
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| schestowitz | There's the on-board Linux and the low-cost laptops, among other exciting things. | Jul 07 10:54 |
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| blackrabbit | yes | Jul 07 10:54 |
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| schestowitz | I saw NVidia getting the slap, and thought they deserved it after what they did recently. | Jul 07 10:55 |
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| blackrabbit | now if we can just sweep the slate clean of xandros and other ms patent agreement distros | Jul 07 10:55 |
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| blackrabbit | agreed re: nvidia | Jul 07 10:55 |
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| schestowitz | .Yes, a speculation came recently about Debian on Eee. | Jul 07 10:55 |
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| schestowitz | I think it's far-fetched, but Xandros' CEO recently described the ASUS relationship as 'complicated' (he refused to say more). | Jul 07 10:56 |
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| schestowitz | I don't believe ASUS pays Xandros and Microsoft even a dime. | Jul 07 10:56 |
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| blackrabbit | xandros needs a fork in it | Jul 07 10:56 |
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| schestowitz | They promote the brand name though. | Jul 07 10:56 |
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| blackrabbit | seriously, the bad karma from corel linux needs to be repeated in the media | Jul 07 10:56 |
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| schestowitz | Are you the one who harps about Corel repeatedly? | Jul 07 10:56 |
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| blackrabbit | Hmm? | Jul 07 10:57 |
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| schestowitz | There's a person (or two) who sees Novell as Corel 2. | Jul 07 10:57 |
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| blackrabbit | Novell and Corel are working together? | Jul 07 10:57 |
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| schestowitz | I wrote about SAP and Corel about an hour ago. | Jul 07 10:57 |
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| schestowitz | No, Corel was leading the way to Microsoft obsolecense, so Microsoft signed a 'non compete' deal. Same with Novell, but it takes time to materialise. | Jul 07 10:58 |
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| blackrabbit | On the subject of Corel, though, you sure don't see many Linux offerings on their site today, do you? | Jul 07 10:59 |
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| blackrabbit | Plenty of Microsoft Windows related stuff though | Jul 07 10:59 |
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| blackrabbit | funny, that | Jul 07 10:59 |
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| blackrabbit | let's play the "how many linux mentions can you count on Corel's website" game | Jul 07 10:59 |
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| blackrabbit | I'm still waiting for Microsoft's "interoperability" to include a repo on its site for linux ports | Jul 07 11:00 |
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| schestowitz | Well, it got worse over time. This came up now that Novell 'advertises' Vista and requires MSIE for the online shop. | Jul 07 11:00 |
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| blackrabbit | schestowitz, sure, and would you be surprised if they had a Novell Genuine Advantage ? | Jul 07 11:01 |
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| schestowitz | Novell is, as I just wrote, a Microsoft company in the making. Not literally.. of course not... but it'll continue to serve Microsoft with tax, Free Linux FUD, etc. | Jul 07 11:01 |
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| schestowitz | That's already partly a relaity. | Jul 07 11:01 |
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| schestowitz | It was the same with 'Spire | Jul 07 11:01 |
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| blackrabbit | schestowitz, I see their lizard logo not as it appears, but as the pest used in the Star Trek movie, inserted into the ears of some of the Federation members | Jul 07 11:01 |
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| blackrabbit | that's my creative interpretation | Jul 07 11:02 |
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| blackrabbit | I'm thinking of making a video | Jul 07 11:02 |
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| blackrabbit | with clips from that movie | Jul 07 11:02 |
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| schestowitz | Changes colours too. | Jul 07 11:02 |
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| blackrabbit | indeed | Jul 07 11:02 |
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| schestowitz | One day it;s Linux when approaching the kernel, then serving Microsoft again. Quite the chameleon | Jul 07 11:02 |
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| schestowitz | Some people close the kernel don't trust Novell anymore, but they can't say a thing. | Jul 07 11:03 |
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| schestowitz | I saw some Spanish blogs linking to the us over the weekend, cursing Novell. | Jul 07 11:03 |
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| schestowitz | One person used the Judas analogy again. | Jul 07 11:03 |
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| blackrabbit | the trouble is, most people are asleep | Jul 07 11:05 |
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| schestowitz | Not all of them. Depends which audience really. The Linux Today crowd, for instance, is smart enough to see what is happening. | Jul 07 11:06 |
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| blackrabbit | the common consumer is | Jul 07 11:07 |
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| blackrabbit | woo xbox! | Jul 07 11:08 |
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| blackrabbit | that type | Jul 07 11:08 |
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| schestowitz | Well, some companies thrive in innocence or ignorance. Novell sure knows how to deceive reporters and have them look at eye candy rather than a nasty deal. | Jul 07 11:09 |
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| blackrabbit | I'm surprised no one has taken legal action against Microsoft regarding the patent claims | Jul 07 11:11 |
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| blackrabbit | (Linux) patent claims | Jul 07 11:11 |
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| schestowitz | The law does not help. | Jul 07 11:11 |
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| blackrabbit | Somewhere under some rock, some lawyer has to have some balls | Jul 07 11:11 |
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| schestowitz | In Germany, a law forbid what they did, It's like salnder. | Jul 07 11:11 |
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| schestowitz | Legal fight against Microsoft? Surely you jest. Watch what they do to the EU. They tire them down by endless and costly litigation. Then they delivers partial compliance with useless docs 10 years late! | Jul 07 11:13 |
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| schestowitz | Arguing with Microsoft is like picking a bone with the US military and Cheney. | Jul 07 11:13 |
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| blackrabbit | RE: Germany, a law forbid what they did? any links please? | Jul 07 11:14 |
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| blackrabbit | yes, but the key here is a community effort | Jul 07 11:14 |
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| schestowitz | Hold on. | Jul 07 11:14 |
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| blackrabbit | thanks | Jul 07 11:14 |
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| schestowitz | I have it filed somewhere, but I can't find it. http://www.google.com/search?sour... | Jul 07 11:18 |
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| schestowitz | It's a translation from a PDF in German. Groklaw had it too. It's there somewhere. | Jul 07 11:19 |
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| blackrabbit | np, thanks! | Jul 07 11:19 |
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| schestowitz | In the UK, Get the Facts is illegal, IIRC. The American law is very permissive. You can get away with many lies. | Jul 07 11:19 |
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| blackrabbit | did you ever catch some of the lxer, I think it was that site, articles with one author trying to track connections ms had/has with government? | Jul 07 11:19 |
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| blackrabbit | schestowitz, wow, it's actually illegal there? impressive | Jul 07 11:20 |
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| schestowitz | I've posted many examples of Microsoft connections with the government. It's not needed to prove it anymore, but to name people instead. | Jul 07 11:21 |
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| blackrabbit | I had one very nice link | Jul 07 11:21 |
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| blackrabbit | maybe you have it already | Jul 07 11:21 |
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| blackrabbit | oh yes you do | Jul 07 11:21 |
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| blackrabbit | I know because I gave it to you lol | Jul 07 11:21 |
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| blackrabbit | but ill dredge it up | Jul 07 11:21 |
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| blackrabbit | one: http://lxer.com/module/ne... | Jul 07 11:22 |
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| *schestowitz looks | Jul 07 11:22 |
| blackrabbit | and the rest you have | Jul 07 11:22 |
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| blackrabbit | perhaps that isn't it | Jul 07 11:23 |
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| blackrabbit | one link I had was almost exhausting in the approach | Jul 07 11:23 |
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| schestowitz | I don't think I've seen this one before, but I have posted many similar examples over the years. | Jul 07 11:24 |
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| blackrabbit | no doubt you have | Jul 07 11:24 |
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| schestowitz | I'll respost this one soon though. | Jul 07 11:25 |
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| blackrabbit | =) | Jul 07 11:25 |
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| blackrabbit | let me see if I have another | Jul 07 11:25 |
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| schestowitz | See yesterday's link in BN.com. Microsoft just bought itself some more media influence (MSN). | Jul 07 11:25 |
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| blackrabbit | I wish I had more time to contribute to your site | Jul 07 11:25 |
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| blackrabbit | I volunteer in many projects so my free time is quite split | Jul 07 11:25 |
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| *blackrabbit nods | Jul 07 11:25 |
| blackrabbit | IMO Microsoft should've been spanked for entering into the news media | Jul 07 11:26 |
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| schestowitz | Those who don't know better buy a new PC, use the default browser and read news on the 'deafult' homepage (MSN). Microsoft has a lot of ccontrol over perception this way. | Jul 07 11:27 |
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| blackrabbit | With the Google+Yahoo warm fuzzy, I almost cried tears of joy | Jul 07 11:27 |
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| blackrabbit | indeed | Jul 07 11:27 |
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| blackrabbit | I'm thinking of taking a full page ad out in several publications advertising your site | Jul 07 11:27 |
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| schestowitz | Haha. You must be joking. | Jul 07 11:28 |
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| blackrabbit | no, I am not | Jul 07 11:28 |
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| blackrabbit | why would I? | Jul 07 11:28 |
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| schestowitz | Well, at least we get more xposure over time. This conversation too will be publicly shared. | Jul 07 11:28 |
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| blackrabbit | of course | Jul 07 11:28 |
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| schestowitz | I probably have more influence outside BN. My writings in USENET for example. | Jul 07 11:28 |
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| blackrabbit | http://lxer.com/module/newswir... | Jul 07 11:30 |
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| blackrabbit | http://lxer.com/module/new... | Jul 07 11:30 |
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| blackrabbit | http://lxer.com/module/newswir... | Jul 07 11:30 |
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| blackrabbit | http://lxer.com/module/newswire... | Jul 07 11:31 |
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| schestowitz | What ever happened to Tom? | Jul 07 11:31 |
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| blackrabbit | http://lxer.com/module/ne... | Jul 07 11:31 |
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| schestowitz | Tom Adelstein sort of disappeared after writing the book. | Jul 07 11:31 |
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| blackrabbit | http://lxer.com/module/newswire/vie... | Jul 07 11:31 |
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| blackrabbit | schestowitz, no idea, I don't know nothing about the person | Jul 07 11:31 |
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| blackrabbit | schestowitz, indeed? I expected him to get real quiet after digging into ms/politics/etc | Jul 07 11:31 |
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| blackrabbit | perhaps I'll try contacting him | Jul 07 11:31 |
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| blackrabbit | http://lxer.com/module/newswire/... | Jul 07 11:32 |
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| blackrabbit | schestowitz, those who dig deep enough generally do disappear | Jul 07 11:32 |
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| blackrabbit | schestowitz, through bribes or whatever | Jul 07 11:32 |
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| blackrabbit | http://lxer.com/modu... | Jul 07 11:32 |
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| schestowitz | Re http://lxer.com/mo... , there's news: the US of Advertising now forces all icecream cones to be sold with one brand of ice cream. | Jul 07 11:32 |
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| schestowitz | You can throw that ice cream away if you want and buy some new ones you like. | Jul 07 11:32 |
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| schestowitz | blackrabbit, intimidation is more likely, not bribery. | Jul 07 11:33 |
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| schestowitz | I saw good advocates disappoering from COLA after threats to their family, jobs, reputation, etc. | Jul 07 11:34 |
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| schestowitz | Tim Bray too was somewhat of a victim. | Jul 07 11:34 |
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| blackrabbit | Why do people allow themselves to get personally involved? | Jul 07 11:37 |
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| blackrabbit | Why don't they publish anonymously? | Jul 07 11:37 |
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| schestowitz | That's what PJ tried. She was then spied on. | Jul 07 11:37 |
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| blackrabbit | How can you be spied on if your work is anonymous? | Jul 07 11:38 |
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| schestowitz | They can expose people. | Jul 07 11:39 |
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| schestowitz | I've seen friends who whole home address, phone # etc. got leaked and then they got bullied after posting stuff that's not helpful to Microsoft. | Jul 07 11:40 |
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| schestowitz | It's like the mafia. | Jul 07 11:40 |
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| blackrabbit | Yes, but how did they present themselves? | Jul 07 11:40 |
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| blackrabbit | This is the key | Jul 07 11:40 |
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| blackrabbit | If they had their personal info obtained, IMO, and no offense, but they were sloppy somewhere | Jul 07 11:41 |
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| blackrabbit | At some point, I believe the problem is vanity | Jul 07 11:42 |
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| schestowitz | No, they didn't present themselves. | Jul 07 11:42 |
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| blackrabbit | Everyone at some level wants to receive credit for something | Jul 07 11:42 |
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| schestowitz | They grabbed some info via the ISP, I think | Jul 07 11:42 |
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| blackrabbit | Then they presented themselves somehow | Jul 07 11:43 |
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| schestowitz | The leaks them came from a black hole, to be followed by sheer abuse. It's intended to scare them away | Jul 07 11:43 |
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| blackrabbit | of course | Jul 07 11:43 |
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| schestowitz | Anyway, about Tom, I bet it's different. | Jul 07 11:44 |
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| schestowitz | Writing the book was an ordeal for him and he got frustrated even beforehand. | Jul 07 11:44 |
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| blackrabbit | schestowitz, perhaps we should make an effort to contact him? | Jul 07 11:44 |
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| schestowitz | He doesn't like me. | Jul 07 11:44 |
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| schestowitz | We had an argument once (at Digg). | Jul 07 11:44 |
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| schestowitz | It pissed him off that I was enthusiastic about Linux. | Jul 07 11:44 |
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| blackrabbit | I don't understand, that you were enthusiastic about Linux? | Jul 07 11:46 |
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| schestowitz | He surely had a bad day or something. Other people there were pissed off by his response. It was a long time ago, back in 206. | Jul 07 11:46 |
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| schestowitz | *2006. | Jul 07 11:47 |
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| blackrabbit | perhaps he would be friendly now, esp should you contact him regarding his general welfare? | Jul 07 11:48 |
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| blackrabbit | he had some interesting and engaging articles, I'd hate for him to stop writing | Jul 07 11:48 |
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| blackrabbit | gtg | Jul 07 11:50 |
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| *blackrabbit has quit ("Leaving") | Jul 07 11:50 |
| schestowitz | Unless he's researching this stuff, I'm not sure what I can tell him. I hope it goes well for him because he seems to have distanced himself. | Jul 07 11:50 |
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| schestowitz | WTF? http://www.linuxworld.com.au/in... "The latest Eee PC model available in Australia, the 900, costs $599 for the Windows XP version and $649 for the Linux version." This is getting ridiculous. | Jul 07 12:43 |
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| kentma | Asus are perhaps following market demand here, or, perhaps, Asus reached a deal with MS, perhaps some time ago, which still stands, where they pay MS for every PC sold whether Windows be on it or not. | Jul 07 19:04 |
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| schestowitz | Well, Windows is sold for a low price. The issue with price is more serious in AU. I sent a pointer to a journalist whom I know from there. The last time they pressured ASUS, the price was 'mended'. | Jul 07 19:07 |
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| kentma | I recall the debate at the time. It's also possible that they're merely responding to market demand, charging most for what's most popular, as it were. | Jul 07 19:08 |
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| kentma | Btw, I was in a meeting today and one chap had an Asus 901 20G, but he'd installed XP on it. I asked him why, and he said that linux was hard. It brings home to me how unusual I am for my generation on this... :-) | Jul 07 19:09 |
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| schestowitz | Was the person in technology? Many people don't require anything more than the basics. | Jul 07 19:10 |
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| kentma | Err, he's a major technology guy, networking and economics expertise, overall, I've a lot of time for him... | Jul 07 19:10 |
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| schestowitz | So surely he wanted to add new tools. | Jul 07 19:12 |
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| schestowitz | That's where it's complicated for those who need to tinker. Appliances aren't for this type. | Jul 07 19:12 |
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| kentma | A chap with the expertise and knowledge about how to build major global networks really shouldn't be fazed by one relatively simple network element. | Jul 07 19:13 |
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| schestowitz | He ought to use Debian and apt-get then. DebianEee has been in touch with ASUS, so there's hope. | Jul 07 19:14 |
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| kentma | Oh, he won't. His view is that "Linux is hard", and I just don't have either the time or energy to educate the whole world things... | Jul 07 19:15 |
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| schestowitz | Streotypes. Like that which says that 'open source' (yes, visibility of code) means that the interface is 'hard'. | Jul 07 19:16 |
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| kentma | A lot of time and effort goes into ensuring that those stereotypes get a lot of traction. | Jul 07 19:17 |
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| kentma | http://vivapinkfloyd.blogs... | Jul 07 19:18 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, of course. | Jul 07 19:18 |
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| kentma | That is one you've found, but sums up much of the problem. | Jul 07 19:18 |
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| schestowitz | I saw that. | Jul 07 19:18 |
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| schestowitz | Linus recently said that better is worse if it's different. | Jul 07 19:19 |
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| kentma | This chap is, like me, in his 40s. Most people of our age are disinclined to learn anything "new" - which is much of the issue. | Jul 07 19:19 |
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| kentma | For younger people, new is often exciting and desirable, but as people get older, it looks more scary. | Jul 07 19:19 |
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| schestowitz | The perception of acceptance is importanyt. | Jul 07 19:20 |
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| kentma | Perception is, in fact, 90% of most things. This is why MS spend so much money on astroturfers. | Jul 07 19:20 |
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| schestowitz | For Microsoft to wave some stats about Linux' meager usage (even if it means lying and dumping) is important because: | Jul 07 19:20 |
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| kentma | Why lobbyists exists. | Jul 07 19:20 |
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| schestowitz | It demoriases users, keeps DEVELO^H away so there's the chicken and eggs thing, takes away desire to learn, etc. | Jul 07 19:21 |
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| schestowitz | It's the antithesis of critical mass. | Jul 07 19:21 |
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| schestowitz | There's a HUGE amount of lobbying at the moment. | Jul 07 19:21 |
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| schestowitz | I'll post this to COLA, but also to other places. There are also E-mails flying about it at the moment. The recession has companies rewriting the law. | Jul 07 19:22 |
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| schestowitz | Gestapo 2.0 | Jul 07 19:22 |
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| kentma | Yeah, it's scary. This is a good example of such things here: http://www.xchangemag.com/art... | Jul 07 19:23 |
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| kentma | PBB-TE is massively superior to PBB and VPLS, *but* Cisco are spending a fortune on pushing the much inferior stuff, and causing all knids of problems. | Jul 07 19:24 |
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| schestowitz | The funny thing is that I've concentrated on tech for ages and avoided politics, but it's all running away after FOSS, so you can't avoid seeing and then intervening (emotionally at the least) with political corruption. I can now understand why RMS is seen as so conrtoversial. | Jul 07 19:24 |
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| *schestowitz looks at article | Jul 07 19:24 |
| kentma | Ah, for me, the whole foss thing has always been a political issue. | Jul 07 19:25 |
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| schestowitz | I see it's from last month, so shelf life makes me rethink. | Jul 07 19:25 |
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| schestowitz | It should be, kentma. It's easy to lose sight of our goal. | Jul 07 19:25 |
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| schestowitz | Silly Asay is now talking about Universal Linux and all that BS about making it another OS X. | Jul 07 19:26 |
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| schestowitz | I still suspect that IBM is behind diluting FS with the Novell deal that they funded in a way. | Jul 07 19:26 |
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| kentma | This article covers the same issue and is a day or so old and much easier to read: http://www.ovum.com/new... | Jul 07 19:26 |
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| schestowitz | GPL>Eclipse et al | Jul 07 19:26 |
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| kentma | perhaps, yes. | Jul 07 19:27 |
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| schestowitz | .Ta, I'll use that one. As for IBM, I thought about doing an open letter thing accusing them by asking questions. I've been good to them while fighting for ODF, but at the end of the day, they are just another blob shop. | Jul 07 19:27 |
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| kentma | There are some really good linux guys at IBM, I know some of them, but they are a *very* large company, like my $employer :-) | Jul 07 19:28 |
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| kentma | Btw, have you seen this?: http://www.osmosoft.com/ | Jul 07 19:29 |
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| schestowitz | IBM lost the man behind the Linux moves. He retired. | Jul 07 19:29 |
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| kentma | True, but they're doing very very big business there, so it won't go away. | Jul 07 19:30 |
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| schestowitz | Oh, it needs JS Eenabled. | Jul 07 19:30 |
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| schestowitz | You're not among them. | Jul 07 19:30 |
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| kentma | Me, no, I'm in the technology strategy area, although I do know all these guys. | Jul 07 19:31 |
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| schestowitz | I can't recall IBM protesting against Microsoft's FUD attack on Linus last year. | Jul 07 19:31 |
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| schestowitz | Like Novell pretty much. They use Novell's Linux almost on all mainframes, so they probably pay MS tax. | Jul 07 19:31 |
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| schestowitz | Or... do the cross-licensing thing. | Jul 07 19:32 |
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| kentma | No, they probably wouldn't, since they wouldn't see that as their battle, I suspect. They did react to the SCO stuff, though. | Jul 07 19:32 |
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| schestowitz | NOVL has the SCOX' main asset now. | Jul 07 19:32 |
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| schestowitz | Imaginary nonetheless. | Jul 07 19:32 |
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| kentma | hehe, yeah... | Jul 07 19:32 |
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| schestowitz | They probably do a lot of swapping of protection up there. I have some sources that have said this for over a year. | Jul 07 19:33 |
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| kentma | Indeed. Well, you know about the stuff I've battled against here... | Jul 07 19:33 |
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| schestowitz | The loser is of course the mighty...errr... tiny GNU... if you count based on portfolio size. | Jul 07 19:33 |
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| kentma | :-) | Jul 07 19:33 |
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| schestowitz | I wonder where they stand on swpatents. | Jul 07 19:33 |
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| kentma | Anyway, I must run for now, perhaps see you later. | Jul 07 19:34 |
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| schestowitz | Well, surely they file for them. | Jul 07 19:34 |
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| schestowitz | They are like Microsoft. | Jul 07 19:34 |
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| schestowitz | Whining and filing. They also sue companies, IIRC> | Jul 07 19:34 |
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| schestowitz | Sun ruined the policy of MySQL and Sun too pretends to be 'assisting' the fight against FOSS (Simon Phipps told me this personally). | Jul 07 19:34 |
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| schestowitz | Simon is a good guy but he's not Sun. | Jul 07 19:34 |
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| schestowitz | Oops. See you later. | Jul 07 19:35 |
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