07.25.08

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: July 24th, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 5:37 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

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schestowitz	Just woke up. Best way to start a day: http://boycottnovell.com/20…	Jul 24 05:16
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schestowitz	Separation of the units ( http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir… ): it seems likely that Microsoft only merged them to give the illusion that all divisions are profitable. It did this with the Mobile Unit, too.	Jul 24 13:10
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kentma1	wow, they’re losing some really key people here…	Jul 24 15:13
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kentma	level 3 making a loss in the US: http://level3.mediaroom.com/ind…	Jul 24 16:31
kentma	schestowitz: the p/e ratio of MS is only 12 compared with avg of 20 for software sector in the reuters article you highlight – this is worthy of bringing out, I think?	Jul 24 16:49
kentma	http://www.reuters.com/article/m…	Jul 24 16:49
schestowitz	[back noiw]	Jul 24 17:09
schestowitz	The man they have just lost is arguably their #2 man (after Ballmer).	Jul 24 17:09
schestowitz	kentma: did you see what I wrote about that Reuters article earlier?	Jul 24 17:10
kentma	schestowitz: yes!	Jul 24 17:11
schestowitz	Also, just got this mail from a friend:’Well, the Economist used to have online an article called “Share and Share Unalike” from 1999 which points out that if you used regular accounting (where you tally the expenses and income, as opposed to Enron -style accounting with loops and magic numbers) MS was already running a loss in 1998.’	Jul 24 17:11
schestowitz	I could use your help	Jul 24 17:11
schestowitz	I haven’t read the above yet, but what is your suspicion there abpit p/e	Jul 24 17:11
schestowitz	*about	Jul 24 17:11
schestowitz	With the fraud that has just been confirmed not just by imprisonment but also admission (tjay ;ady from accounting) it’s worth digging into.	Jul 24 17:12
kentma	hi – the numbers are actually in the reuters article, just page through and the p/es are shown.	Jul 24 17:13
schestowitz	Another important find (potentially): http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/brie…	Jul 24 17:13
schestowitz	Older: http://www.billparish.com/msftfr… http://reactor-core.org/micr… I was in touch with Bill Parish some months ago, but very briefly. Will he get many apologies one day? Who knows…	Jul 24 17:13
kentma	hehe – who knows?	Jul 24 17:14
schestowitz	Another important gem: MS’ CFO is a new guy from the paper industry. Weird appointment. The previous guy ran away. Sort of.	Jul 24 17:14
schestowitz	The Enron thing is an exaggeration, so I don’t make that analogy, but something smells funny given the fact that Microsoft’s margins eroded, sales fell, and they could still merge divisions to show positive numbers. They are probably profitable, but to what extent? Despite the SEC’s supervision, lying is the norm now. Execs say it out loud.	Jul 24 17:16
kentma	dishonesty is the norm, I agree. MS surely suffer from this!	Jul 24 17:18
schestowitz	Can’t say much without proof though.	Jul 24 17:19
schestowitz	Novell was caught admitting this.	Jul 24 17:19
schestowitz	http://reactor-core.org/microso…	Jul 24 17:20
schestowitz	Compare to: http://boycottnovell.com/200…	Jul 24 17:20
kentma	the parish paper is good – I’ve seen it before, but it’s still good!	Jul 24 17:56
schestowitz	I didn’t read it entirely, but I just posted a recommendation in COLA. The economy is being ruined by such schemes (those that are confirmed). It’s endemic everywhere though, not just the US.	Jul 24 17:59
kentma	Unfortunately, as Mr Parish observes, these companies are the economy, which is why corruption is entirely inherent in this system.	Jul 24 18:11
kentma	the Adam Smith viewpoint that if you just let capitalists get on with things, the world will improve, is quite good, but does appear to have some basic flaws. Adam Smith hails from a Scots Presbyt. background, which a strong moral ethos, and his thinking was heavily influenced by that.	Jul 24 18:12
kentma	*hailed.	Jul 24 18:12
schestowitz	Yes, I agree. Corporations still have more power than the government. Heaps more. Even ISO is to Microsoft what a mouse is to an elephant. Seen the Novell post yet?	Jul 24 18:13
schestowitz	This comment was posted minutes ago: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0… . As he points out, Intel needs to be taken to the back for some EU whooping as well.	Jul 24 18:14
kentma	umm, interesting remarks frmo Mr Asay	Jul 24 18:15
schestowitz	If the whooping ain’t good, then whipping and weeping would do. They have a heap of allegations against Intel at the moment. Intel bribes.	Jul 24 18:15
kentma	I suspect that there’s at least as much here as there was at Siemens. Did you include any pieces on Siemens, on your site, btw?	Jul 24 18:16
schestowitz	Only in COLA I think.	Jul 24 18:16
schestowitz	Simens and MSBBC are a perfect couple, and yes, they collaborate.	Jul 24 18:17
kentma	they do have a strong interest in linux. they’re in the Linux Foundation, I think.	Jul 24 18:17
schestowitz	Siemens stained by multimillion bribery scandal http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inqui…	Jul 24 18:18
schestowitz	Bribery scandal: Siemens fined 201 million euros http://www.heise.de/english/newst…	Jul 24 18:18
schestowitz	MSBBC as a possible partner in crime (accomplice): “MPs rap BBC over Siemens deal” http://www.channelregister.co.uk/200…	Jul 24 18:19
kentma	those’re the ones, yes.	Jul 24 18:19
schestowitz	Just like Apple though, no matter the amount of crime, there’s no embargo, so the crime pays. It pays off.	Jul 24 18:19
schestowitz	Yes, Intel do some stuff for Linus _AS LONG AS ALL PCS RUNNING LINUS USE INTEL HARDWARE_	Jul 24 18:20
kentma	Well, they were fined, and the senior guys had to leave Siemens, afairc.	Jul 24 18:20
schestowitz	OLPC used AMD. Remember that they just need to sell their wares. Linux is only a ‘risk’ because of the upgrade cycle thingie.	Jul 24 18:20
kentma	are OLPC still messing around with Microsoft?	Jul 24 18:20
schestowitz	“Leave Simens”? They should be in prison, no?	Jul 24 18:21
schestowitz	OLPC I choose not to watch anymore, but for Microsoft, a dead OLPC is a good OLPC.	Jul 24 18:21
kentma	for fraud? Perhaps. One cannot be sure how much government influence was involved in these things.	Jul 24 18:22
schestowitz	German government?	Jul 24 18:22
kentma	perhaps, or eu, or even eu/us. Much of this was occuring in the middle-east, I think, so there’s a lot of national strategic interest.	Jul 24 18:23
schestowitz	I’ve seen governments granting monopolies to friends	Jul 24 18:25
schestowitz	It’s partly responsible for shutting down my grandad’s business.	Jul 24 18:25
kentma	the problem with all of this, as I observed many years ago in Cola, is that governments, like businesses, are populated by people, and people are corruptible.	Jul 24 18:25
schestowitz	Some worked in industry.	Jul 24 18:26
schestowitz	Take Majoras for example.	Jul 24 18:27
schestowitz	She worked in the FTC (chaired it) before leaving to join Proctor and Gamble quite recently.	Jul 24 18:27
kentma	It’s a tight a close-knit group.	Jul 24 18:27
schestowitz	There was a huge mess over Intel and Google, IIRC. Microsoft is another. Herhusband was connected to some orgs and, in general, it’s all just a corrupt watchdog that goes by money and gut feeling…. oh, and lobbyists… 64 of them (full time) per congressman in WA, DC..	Jul 24 18:28
schestowitz	Intel got away many times because of her. She gave no reason..	Jul 24 18:29
kentma	read this: http://politicalhumor.about.com/od…	Jul 24 18:29
schestowitz	Now that she left /EVEN/ the US (home country of Intel) is issuing antitrust.	Jul 24 18:29
*schestowitz reads		Jul 24 18:29
schestowitz	Well, no system can work well, but that’s just chaos.	Jul 24 18:31
kentma	I stand by this man. I stand by this man, because he stands for things. Not only for things, he stands on things, things like aircraft carriers and rubble and recently flooded city squares. And that sends a strong message, that no matter what happens to America, she will always rebound with the most powerfully staged photo-ops in the world.	Jul 24 18:34
schestowitz	Funny new video: http://www.marcelgagne.com/node/581	Jul 24 18:43
*kentma grabs url		Jul 24 18:44
schestowitz	kentma: http://news.zdnet.co.uk/commun… ( BT joins enterprise open-source community )	Jul 24 19:05
kentma	they didn’t quite get my Linux Foundation quote right, but it’s close enough… we’re making progress at last!	Jul 24 19:07
kentma	Andrew Back has been driving the fossbazaar membership, I think it’s a good idea.	Jul 24 19:08
kentma	We’re also members of LiMo, but that’s not mentioned there.	Jul 24 19:08
schestowitz	The author is a SUSE user.	Jul 24 19:09
kentma	SuSE is pretty big…	Jul 24 19:09
schestowitz	Yes, like a bad tumour.. SLED/S anyway… it’s a form of Microsoft Linux. At least David uses OpenSUSE.	Jul 24 19:11
kentma	I wonder how long microsoft will exist for.	Jul 24 19:13
schestowitz	That’s the wrong question to ask, I think.	Jul 24 19:14
schestowitz	“How long will it be dominant for?”	Jul 24 19:15
kentma	Personally, I suspect that Microsoft will sort of implode, but maybe not. time will tell.	Jul 24 19:15
schestowitz	suppose you’ve seen my post about their value sinking $90 billion this year? And that’s before Johnson left…	Jul 24 19:16
schestowitz	Whoa! Microsoft down sharly today, as I expected: http://news.zdnet.co.uk/commu…	Jul 24 19:17
schestowitz	Oops. Right URL: http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=MSFT	Jul 24 19:17
schestowitz	See end of: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/0… (Microsoft as SCO 2)	Jul 24 19:18
kentma	I did, yes. I’m not surprised! Do you remember the balance sheet analysis I did in cola some time ago? There’s loads of asset gone, lost.	Jul 24 19:18
kentma	anyway, gotta go – see ya!	Jul 24 19:18
schestowitz	What anslysis?	Jul 24 19:18
schestowitz	I spoke to my dad about this on the phone earlier this afternoon.	Jul 24 19:19
kentma	a couple of months ago I did a balance sheet analysis and put it in cola.	Jul 24 19:19
schestowitz	He didn’t know Microsoft has just $26 billion left in the bank (debt possibility due to Yahoo/buybaqcks)	Jul 24 19:19
kentma	THere was a substantlial loss of asset, with no explanation, but it was disguised reasonably well.	Jul 24 19:19
schestowitz	They also buy assets (companies	Jul 24 19:20
schestowitz	But they bet on patents, too.	Jul 24 19:20
kentma	buying corps only works if you do the diligence properly, and know /why/ you want them. Microsoft is in a panic and has no idea. It’s money down the drain.	Jul 24 19:21
kentma	anyway – off – see you.	Jul 24 19:21
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PetoKraus	i am wondering, how do you know, that binary distribution of linux really delivers only compiled source code with applied patches and nothing more? that the binaries doesn’t differ from the sources provided?	Jul 24 19:56
PetoKraus	just a matter of paranoia.	Jul 24 19:56
schestowitz	Good point.	Jul 24 19:57
schestowitz	Well, you need to check the compiler too, not just the source. Then, the chips used to compile the source code.	Jul 24 19:58
PetoKraus	assuming you compile your compiler you are pretty safe	Jul 24 19:58
schestowitz	Among other things. There’s a lot of trust involved, which is why I don’t trust SELiNSAux. It has assemble code patches.	Jul 24 19:58
PetoKraus	though, to some extent	Jul 24 19:58
schestowitz	*assembly	Jul 24 19:58
schestowitz	There’s reliance on people’s reluctance to start from source though. People just want to ‘dress up’ their HDD.	Jul 24 19:59
PetoKraus	you can have code-replicating compiler. Actually, who knows what the compiler you get with the gentoo stage3 tarball does to your compiler you compile yourself.	Jul 24 19:59
PetoKraus	theoretically, the perfect code safety is, when you bootstrap the compiler itself by hand	Jul 24 20:00
schestowitz	Good point. Or you can do a binary diff on what you have, or have inspections done that are independent from distro makers.	Jul 24 20:00
PetoKraus	so now. is there authority which supervises “openness”?	Jul 24 20:00
schestowitz	Should be.	Jul 24 20:00
schestowitz	Well, OSI is a toothless tiger.	Jul 24 20:00
PetoKraus	something like CACERT for certificates	Jul 24 20:01
schestowitz	Dana Blankenhorn took a stand 1.5 years ago and this MilkingTheGNU guy wanted to become FOSS chief.	Jul 24 20:01
schestowitz	Trust/security are code work for control.	Jul 24 20:01
schestowitz	*coide word	Jul 24 20:01
PetoKraus	yes, the point is you have to start somewhere	Jul 24 20:02
schestowitz	Would you do it?	Jul 24 20:02
schestowitz	Could be like Welte and gpl-violations.org	Jul 24 20:02
schestowitz	He won an ORLY prize yesterday.	Jul 24 20:03
PetoKraus	in trust? yes. I trust gentoo devs that they provide me with honest stage3 tarball	Jul 24 20:03
schestowitz	But diff is not enough. Full and deep code inspection too. How many lines are in Gentoo’s base? Like 10 million?	Jul 24 20:03
PetoKraus	sure. it’s precompiled toolchain… it’s enough to “infect”	Jul 24 20:04
schestowitz	LOL Well, punch cards are needed maybe?? Like the failure of eVoting?	Jul 24 20:05
PetoKraus	nah, i’ve got just my paranoia mood	Jul 24 20:06
schestowitz	Have you seen that link from this morning about SELinux in Fedora by default (or something along these lines)?	Jul 24 20:07
PetoKraus	nope	Jul 24 20:07
schestowitz	http://groups.google.com/group/c… See Homer’s comment, too.	Jul 24 20:09