EditorsAbout the SiteComes vs. MicrosoftUsing This Web SiteSite ArchivesCredibility IndexOOXMLOpenDocumentPatentsNovellNews DigestSite NewsRSS

08.02.08

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: August 1st, 2008

Posted in IRC Logs at 4:20 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Enter the IRC channel now

*blastfan (i=62e9a5d7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d015e140b84057cb) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 01 03:09
*blastfan has quit (Client Quit) Aug 01 03:11
*lis` has quit (“baibai<3″) Aug 01 03:38
*dsmith_ (n=dsmith@c-76-114-142-224.hsd1.md.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 01 04:22
*dsmith_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Aug 01 04:24
*crashsystems (n=crashsys@c-76-106-162-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 01 04:46
*crashsystems (n=crashsys@c-76-106-162-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) has left #boycottnovell Aug 01 04:51
*anivar (n=anivar@117.192.102.193) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 01 04:59
anivar schestowitz:  I feel some database connectivity issues are there for boycott novell Aug 01 05:01
anivar some error messages are visible on website Aug 01 05:02
schestowitz Yikrd. Aug 01 05:17
schestowitz *Yikes. Yes, there have been some issues lately. Aug 01 05:17
*anivar has quit (“Ex-Chat”) Aug 01 06:00
*anivar (n=anivar@117.192.102.193) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 01 06:47
*anivar has quit (“Ex-Chat”) Aug 01 07:52
schestowitz “Memphis Police Director Larry Godwin and the city of Memphis have filed a lawsuit to learn who operates a blog harshly critical of Godwin and his department.The lawsuit asks AOL to produce all information related to the identity of an e-mail address linked to MPD Enforcer 2.0, a blog popular with police officers that has been extremely critical of police leadership at 201 Poplar.” Aug 01 08:06
schestowitz http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/200… And some people still think that blogging anonymously is possible. Good bye, free speech. Aug 01 08:06
*kentma (n=user@host86-157-182-228.range86-157.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 01 08:43
*lis` (n=lis@pub082136126031.dh-hfc.datazug.ch) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 01 09:11
kentma mornin’ all Aug 01 09:13
schestowitz Hey, kentma. Aug 01 09:15
schestowitz The site make Linux Today some hours ago. Aug 01 09:15
kentma hey – well done! Aug 01 09:16
kentma your use of links with mini-quotes has created a new style, well done that man! Aug 01 09:17
schestowitz Thanks. The links are quick to do because I cross-cite. I just need to remember keywords. Aug 01 09:18
kentma The debate on your article is fascinating – it reeks of munchkins Aug 01 09:23
kentma In fact, the writing style is somewhat familiar – is this one of the cola gang? Aug 01 09:25
schestowitz It’s very different from ‘old-style’ press where the resources (bibliographic is secret/.crypitc/non-existent).  BTW, I decided not to write for Datamati0n until those Microsoft ads are out. Aug 01 09:25
schestowitz kentma: which one? A comment, you mean? Aug 01 09:26
kentma It could be a long wait, but personally, I’m a very principled person, and I always admire others who are. Aug 01 09:26
kentma The TJ Brumfield character.  It reads a lot like Eric/Timmy Aug 01 09:26
schestowitz *lot of typos up there: ” resources (bibliography) is secret/cryptic/non-existent.” Aug 01 09:27
kentma I understood – no worries. Aug 01 09:27
schestowitz Is brumfield a real/common name? Sounds like Broom stick. Aug 01 09:28
kentma I think it’s an anglicised spelling of brumfeld. Aug 01 09:30
kentma brummen is to growl, so is brumfeld a growl-field? :-) Aug 01 09:31
kentma or it could be brummeln, to grumble – actually, that makes more sense.  grumble-field. Aug 01 09:32
kentma It would be a good troll name. Aug 01 09:32
schestowitz I don’t think it’s a troll though. It’s an obnoxious critic, but he seems to be more of a Novell/Microsoft apologist in this case. Aug 01 09:33
schestowitz I never buy the worst type of troll that goes like: “Don’t get me wrong, I use Linux, but” or “I hate Microsoft as much of the next guy. That said…” Aug 01 09:33
kentma The “apologist” role is something I find hard to understand.  Still, we can’t all have clear specs on :-) Aug 01 09:35
schestowitz It’s the latter which is more problematic. They gain more credibility that way. That fools innocent observers. Groklaw caught some people from Microsoft lobbying arms/partners masking as Linux users. Aug 01 09:36
kentma I’m sure that they do that all the time.  All the better to appear to be a “balanced” commentator.  “I’ve used Linux for several years, and have been a particular fan of Debian and Firefox for a long time.  I’m really happy with the latest Ubuntu, but I do have several problems with the install, as several of my key packages didn’t work after I installed from the liveCD…” Aug 01 09:39
kentma It was exceedingly complex to fix these problems, and I very much doubt that a user of normal competence in such things would be able to fix them, even with web support.  I’d advise people to steer clear of this release at least until there are reports that these issues have been fixed. Aug 01 09:40
kentma I’ll let you all know when I’ve got to the bottom of everything, and I’m preparing a list of temporary fixes which I’ll post later on. Aug 01 09:41
schestowitz I suppose you know about the attack on KDE4. Some trolls are blamed too. Aug 01 09:41
schestowitz Kingman (yesterday): “The rest of the changes include library enhancements, improved applications and frameworks — all the little things. It sounds promising!” http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/N… Aug 01 09:42
schestowitz The “TAB” Munchkin is back. HPT intercepted him a couple of years ago, but it’s back. Aug 01 09:42
kentma Hopefully, it’ll be a little more careful about the kind of material posted. Aug 01 09:43
schestowitz Pogue: “Then in 2002, Microsoft’s Web site featured a testimonial called “Confessions of a Mac to PC Convert,” a first-person account by an attractive brunette “freelance writer” about how she had fallen in love with Windows XP.” Aug 01 09:44
schestowitz “Unfortunately, a Slashdot member discovered that the identical photo was available for rent from the stock-photo libraries of GettyImages.com. Sure enough: Microsoft had hired a PR firm to write the testimonial. The “switcher” did not actually exist. “ Aug 01 09:44
kentma ah, yes, I recall that one. Aug 01 09:44
schestowitz What bothers me is that Microsoft passes liability by hiring those scummy lie^H^Hketing people. Aug 01 09:45
kentma well, it’s about distance, isn’t it? Aug 01 09:45
schestowitz Edelman was banned by PC Mag (well, boycotted) after that laptops incident where they poisoned blogs. They put money on the table to make those blogs another Edelman-like scum. Assimilation and passing of revenue (from Microsoft, originally) Aug 01 09:46
schestowitz That’s why I believe that pro-Microsoft Munchkins are either compensated partners (remember Sweden) or ones that are employed only indirectly. But ti’s like an onion. Peel off the layers… it’s hard to see it with tears in your eyes. Aug 01 09:47
kentma part of the problem here is that having a strong supply-chain is, in general, a good thing in business.  The problem in the MS case is that it’s used to hold up a monopoly, rather than to ensure a vibrant and competitive market. Aug 01 09:48
schestowitz I\m going to post something later about Microsoft in parliament. Aug 01 09:49
schestowitz I actually had a long chat about it in the gym yesterday. I was given the watch/clock analogy. You only see the few dials, but not all the cogwheels behind it. Aug 01 09:49
schestowitz Charlie Demerjian is hysterically attacking Nvidia these days. It’s like they killed his cat or something… http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/new… Aug 01 09:53
kentma I had a series of nVidia cards fail on me after a couple of years. Aug 01 10:10
schestowitz That’s pretty bad. I have an ATI card at work (been fine for 5 years and still going), but I have one of the most problematic ones at home (G86). I keep fearing it’ll just go titsup one day, but I have 2 backup workstations all set up for a quick shuffle. Aug 01 10:14
*anivar (n=anivar@117.192.102.193) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 01 10:35
*moparx has quit (“leaving”) Aug 01 10:48
*anivar has quit (“Ex-Chat”) Aug 01 12:45
*kentma has quit (Remote closed the connection) Aug 01 13:07
*kentma (n=user@host86-157-182-228.range86-157.btcentralplus.com) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 01 13:09
*meebey has quit (Remote closed the connection) Aug 01 13:17
*meebey (i=meebey@booster.qnetp.net) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 01 13:17
schestowitz There is some buzz about this at the  moment: http://www.sdtimes.com/link/32646 I reckon Microsoft calls it “research” so that people carry on buying Windows and there’s a cushion, fallback, safety net. Aug 01 14:13
kentma you know, what’s truly bizarre about that article is that it doesn’t mention linux, anywhere, not even once. Aug 01 14:26
kentma OSX is mentioned, but not linux. Aug 01 14:27
kentma they are also talking about using some of Windows in Midori anyway, ie., it wouldn’t really be a new system. Aug 01 14:28
kentma Personally, I doubt anyone would be interested. Aug 01 14:28
schestowitz Few articles mention GNU/Linux. You know the reasons, which are probably not worth repeating. But this whole thing is just further proof that Windows is a mess. Too monolithic. See this: http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs… Aug 01 14:31
schestowitz kentma: I could use your help with http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfee… . I have picked up one possible interpretation, but I probably miss some aspects of this because I hardly know the companies. Aug 01 14:33
*aeshna23 (i=44a2b7fd@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-cd1b36adadc861e6) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 01 15:25
*lis` has quit (“baibai<3″) Aug 01 15:55
*aeshna23 has quit (“http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client”) Aug 01 16:14
*Tallken (n=Tallken@93.102.93.117.rev.optimus.pt) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 01 16:52
*Egyptian[Home] (n=Egyptian@62.117.47.225) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 01 17:05
*Egyptian[Home] (n=Egyptian@62.117.47.225) has left #boycottnovell Aug 01 17:06
kentma schestowitz: hi Aug 01 17:28
schestowitz Hi there, did you get the last message about BGI? I didn’t even know how much his wealth is used to stop mergers and such… Aug 01 17:29
kentma This is fairly normal behaviour from fund managers, to be honest. Aug 01 17:30
kentma It would appear that there’s some consolidation due in that market, and I would imagine that BGI have a greater investment in one or other company, and don’t want to see their value diluted. Aug 01 17:30
kentma The regulatory issues are probably correct. Aug 01 17:31
schestowitz Sun posted some very bad results. Expect the anti-Linux propagandists to try to pose this as a loss for Linux. Aug 01 17:31
Tallken completely OT, but am I the only one who thought Plan9 was released under GPL2? Aug 01 17:32
kentma In fact, it’s the death of proprietary software which is the underlying cause.  The way to prove this is to examine how much of Sun’s income from proprietary code has changed compared to how much from oss Aug 01 17:32
schestowitz Re: BGI — the thing that fascinated is the amount of money on the table (e.g. in media companies) and how BillG can use that and evidently does this all the time. Aug 01 17:33
schestowitz What is Plan9? Aug 01 17:33
Tallken schestowitz, OS in which everything is done through files Aug 01 17:33
Tallken schestowitz, much like /dev overhauled Aug 01 17:33
Tallken schestowitz, /net for TCP/IP stack Aug 01 17:33
schestowitz Was it dual at the end? Aug 01 17:33
Tallken schestowitz, basically no API, all done through file manipulation Aug 01 17:34
schestowitz Lots of projects these days ‘fake’ GPL by just putting a portion under it, but leaving all the rest in a pricey basket. Aug 01 17:34
Tallken death is not proprietary software, the death is of shitty proprietary software. There are people who can swear for Apple OSX server proprietary GUI interfaces… in the end it’s proprietary, the question is whether proprietary software companies are doing their job or just making money which they don’t deserve Aug 01 17:35
Tallken *death is not OF proprietary (…) Aug 01 17:35
kentma schestowitz: BGI are merely an investment arm -  I doubt BGates has any day to day dealings with them. Aug 01 17:35
schestowitz Does the BG stand for Bill Gates (Investment maybe)? I didn’t check. If someone manages his wealth, then… Aug 01 17:36
schestowitz Tallken: Apple gets a lot of good PR despite the fact that it’s a user. Aug 01 17:36
kentma talken:  better proprietary software will last longer, but in the end, the GPL will emerge triumphant.  The economics forced by the GPL ensure that this will be so, by specifically solving the “prisoner’s dillemma” problem. Aug 01 17:36
kentma BGI is barclays global investments, I think. Aug 01 17:37
schestowitz kentma: you’re assuming they can’t force ‘gravitisation’ with ‘regularisation terms’ like softare patents, DMCA, etc. Aug 01 17:37
kentma They’re a fund manager/investment office for independent, well off people. Aug 01 17:38
schestowitz Oops. Aug 01 17:38
schestowitz I’ve just actually read the article rather than glance at it. Aug 01 17:38
kentma schestowitz: these effects are 2nd order, though – they’ll perhaps slow the rate of ascent of foss, but they will not change its slope to -ve. Aug 01 17:39
schestowitz Well, SCO, then Novell… now that Ramji mess. Check out this comment: http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-10535-0.ht… Aug 01 17:39
kentma The linkages are Cascade Investment LLC and the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation Trust – they have holdings in Waste Management.  BGI seems to be fronting the opposition to the deal. Aug 01 17:40
schestowitz I found it funny because Dana quoted me as saying that Ramji is “politely stealing from GNU/Linux.” Maybe he’ll run away sooner or later, just like Taylor and Hilf. Worst job at Microsoft (punch bag). Aug 01 17:40
*kentma looks Aug 01 17:40
kentma hehe – that’s quite funny.  He won’t last long, I think..! Aug 01 17:43
schestowitz :-) Aug 01 17:43
schestowitz I used to think Dana  was against us, but he links to BN.com every month or so. There’s growing acceptance of our ‘thesis’. Aug 01 17:44
kentma made the mainstream! Aug 01 17:44
kentma anyway, I need to collect my agricultural vehicle – see you soon! Aug 01 17:44
*kentma goes Aug 01 17:44
Tallken ah, Plan9′s license is OSI approved and passes Debian Free Software Guidelines Aug 01 18:06
schestowitz Are you using it? Aug 01 18:08
Tallken lol no, it’s most used nowadays as a research platform and as a “it is possible to do” software approach Aug 01 18:09
Tallken though if it was GPL I’d think twice Aug 01 18:09
Tallken linux kernel has support for Plan9-something-filesystem Aug 01 18:09
Tallken would like to research and test, if I had the time, the concepts Aug 01 18:10
Tallken though I should look better into the license to know what it means Aug 01 18:10
Tallken but not for now Aug 01 18:10
schestowitz I wonder about Singularity as a “research” platform. My guess is that Microsoft is confused because of the “cannibalisation dilemma” Aug 01 18:12
SeveredCross You think they’re using singularity as a staging point to a .NET Windows sometime in the future? Aug 01 18:24
schestowitz Windows Presentation Foundation Aug 01 18:26
schestowitz Ballmer had a leaked memo showing his desired focus on it. And well, Novell has de Icaza shouting about it. Aug 01 18:27
Tallken gotta go. Don’t know what Singularity is, will read about it later Aug 01 18:34
Tallken cya later :( Aug 01 18:34
Tallken :) Aug 01 18:34
Tallken ups Aug 01 18:34
schestowitz Will do. There’s already Prism, Flex, Gear, etc. Microsoft comes from behind aggressively, just as it did with browsers, hypervisors, RIA (XAML)… Aug 01 18:34
*Tallken has quit (“meant :)”) Aug 01 18:34
schestowitz Interesting times. Aug 01 18:34
*mib_176fmp (i=86c0fa0a@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-977527b9584b5ae5) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 01 18:35
*mib_176fmp has quit (Client Quit) Aug 01 18:38
*moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 01 19:27
*moparx_ (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 01 19:33
*moparx has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) Aug 01 19:47
*Azerthoth (n=azerthot@177-25-74-65.gci.net) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 01 21:10
*Azerthoth (n=azerthot@177-25-74-65.gci.net) has left #boycottnovell (“(Read error: 666 (No route to hell))”) Aug 01 21:10
*mib_t9wafr (i=58026439@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1904b7cf1ac1cebc) has joined #boycottnovell Aug 01 21:50
*mib_t9wafr has quit (Client Quit) Aug 01 21:52
meebey schestowitz: Mono is not planning to implement WPF at all Aug 01 21:58
schestowitz Yes, I know. Miguel blogged about it. Aug 01 21:59
schestowitz It’s something to just watch out for anyway. Apple too should be concerned or at least cautious. Aug 01 21:59
*moparx_ has quit (“leaving”) Aug 01 22:48
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Aug 1 23:03:37 2008
*Now talking on #boycottnovell Aug 01 23:03
*Topic for #boycottnovell is: Exploring the reality behind exclusionary deals with Microsoft and their subtle (yet severe) implications (publicly logged) Aug 01 23:03
*Topic for #boycottnovell set by schestowitz at Wed Jun 4 08:34:16 2008 Aug 01 23:03
-ChanServ-[#boycottnovell] Welcome to the #boycottnovell channel Aug 01 23:03
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to schestowitz Aug 01 23:04
Share this post: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages.
  • Digg
  • del.icio.us
  • Reddit
  • co.mments
  • DZone
  • email
  • Google Bookmarks
  • LinkedIn
  • NewsVine
  • Print
  • Technorati
  • TwitThis
  • Facebook

If you liked this post, consider subscribing to the RSS feed or join us now at the IRC channels.

Pages that cross-reference this one

What Else is New


  1. Another Reason to Boycott Intel UEFI

    More anti-competitive aspects are revealed inside UEFI, which helps merginalise GNU/Linux



  2. Quick Mention: Novell and SUSE Passed to Microsoft's 'Partner of the Year', Microsoft Focus

    Novell is changing hands again, and falling into the hands of even more Microsoft-friendly actors



  3. Links 16/9/2014: Linux 3.17 RC5, KDE Frameworks 5.2.0

    Links for the day



  4. Željko Topić, Benoît Battistelli, and the European Patent Office (EPO): Part II

    Part II of our look into the EPO appointment of Željko Topić and other matters showing the dubious integrity of the EPO



  5. Links 14/9/2014: Android-based Watches Earn Optimism

    Links for the day



  6. Links 14/9/2014: Eucalyptus Devoured

    Links for the day



  7. Links 11/9/2014: Linux Toilet Project, Linux-Based Wheelchair Project

    Links for the day



  8. Links 10/9/2014: Brian Stevens in Google, Ubuntu 14.10 Expectations

    Links for the day



  9. Links 9/9/2014: Hating/Loving Linux, Android Aplenty

    Links for the day



  10. Links 8/9/2014: Linux 3.17 RC 4, Switzerland Welcoming Snowden

    Links for the day



  11. Suspicion of High-Level Corruption at the European Patent Office (EPO): Part I

    The European Patent Office (EPO) Vice-President has a background of corruption and his appointment to the EPO too is believed to be reliant on systemic corruption



  12. Links 6/9/2014: Core OS at DigitalOcean, Women in Xorg

    Links for the day



  13. Software Patents 'Quality' Debated in Courts, Microsoft's Biggest Patent Troll Still a Chronic Liar

    Intellectual Ventures, Microsoft's and Bill Gates' largest patent proxy, continues to spread lies about its motivations, claiming that patent assessment is among the goals when in fact only the courts and patent offices do this



  14. New Article Explains How Bill Gates Prevents Schools From Moving to GNU/Linux and Free Software

    A new article from Al Jazeera provides details about the role of so-called 'charities' of billionaires inside school systems



  15. Microsoft Sued for Large-scale Copyright Abuses

    Microsoft reveals its disregard for copyright law which it loves so much to wield as a weapon against its competition and clients



  16. Links 5/9/2014: New WordPress, Systemd Debate Continues

    Links for the day



  17. 'Embrace and Extend' at Microsoft: The New Generation

    Some of the latest examples of Microsoft's predatory acts against Free software and against competition in general, disguised as acts of friendliness



  18. Bill Gates' God Complex: Common Core a One-Man Campaign of Greed and Control

    The push for Common Core is overwhelmingly dominated by Bill Gates, who intimidates and even resorts to retribution against critics while bribing those who help him accomplish the goal of privatised (for his private profit) indoctrination in US schools



  19. Bill Gates Investments Harm the World, Not Improve the World, Based on New Exclusive Piece of Investigative Journalism at The Nation

    The Gates Foundation's profiteering efforts and lack of ethics outlined in a new report that many sites around the Web find fascinating and mostly irrefutable



  20. Links 3/9/2014: Android Gadgets, New Tails OS

    Links for the day



  21. Linus Torvalds DebConf Talk

    Torvalds' latest talk which got media attention earlier this month



  22. Microsoft Should Not be Considered Too Big to Jail

    Microsoft continues to use dumping as a strategy which revolves around starving the competition, not beating the competition



  23. Pro-Software Patents Voices Finally Acknowledge the Demise of Software Patents in the United States

    A milestone is reached as even the most zealous supporters of patents on algorithms (or computer-implemented inventions, or software patents) are admitting that the era of software patents may be over



  24. New Lies About Microsoft 'Privacy' and New FUD Against the GPL Comes From 'Former' Microsoft Staff at Black Duck

    More AstroTurfing by sites that are run by Microsoft MVPs and firms which were created by people from Microsoft



  25. Links 2/9/2014: GNU/Linux in BBC, Calls Against systemd

    Links for the day



  26. Links 1/9/2014: Poettering on systemd, ITNews on DBMSs

    Links for the day



  27. Moving Away From Windows to GNU/Linux and the Abandonment of Windows as the Modest Proposal These Days

    Morale of GNU/Linux and an embrace of GNU/Linux is very high, despite recent propaganda from Microsoft MVPs and boosters (primarily security-themed and Munich-themed FUD)



  28. Korean Press Slams Microsoft Over Patent Extortion Against Linux/Android as New Abuses Resurface

    Harsh words from the national press of South Korea as Nokia's role in Microsoft's anti-Linux tactics becomes more apparent



  29. More Good News About Patents and Their Demise in the United States

    A roundup of news about software patents and patent trolls in the land where these thrive



  30. Links 31/8/2014: Linux 3.12.27, Akademy 2014

    Links for the day


CoPilotCo

RSS 64x64RSS Feed: subscribe to the RSS feed for regular updates

Home iconSite Wiki: You can improve this site by helping the extension of the site's content

Home iconSite Home: Background about the site and some key features in the front page

Chat iconIRC Channel: Come and chat with us in real time

CoPilotCo

Recent Posts