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Sep 05 00:46 |
| Slated |
Yesterday’s Troll (cj): http://www.linkedin.com/in/cjcollier and photo: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/220/… |
Sep 05 00:53 |
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Sep 05 07:26 |
| schestowitz |
From the news: Grabbing Novell admin password at a school: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_9UH8s5xUw |
Sep 05 08:00 |
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Sep 05 08:44 |
| schestowitz |
Want to develop in Mono? Buy a Windows box, buy Visual Studio… http://tirania.org/blog/archive/20… |
Sep 05 08:46 |
| ZiggyFish |
OOo 3.0 Final - Product release: September 16th, 2008 |
Sep 05 08:47 |
| schestowitz |
It’s not a big step over 2.4 |
Sep 05 08:48 |
| schestowitz |
They should have gone up from 2.4 and been stuck in 2.6 forever as a matter of principle, just like Linux. |
Sep 05 08:49 |
| ZiggyFish |
lol |
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Sep 05 09:00 |
| schestowitz |
wasabi: are you connected with this chap < http://wp.colliertech.org/cj/?p=237 >? He said you are, IIRC. |
Sep 05 09:04 |
| schestowitz |
The headline makes some vague accusation that’s not supported in the text. Moreover, if that matters as all, the author has admitted working on Microsoft software. He entered the IRC channel to plant bait, by his own admission that he made within seconds after entering. Why spend so much time attacking credibility of messengers? It’s beyond me. Read the text, ignore this unsupported headline. |
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Sep 05 10:50 |
| trmanco |
http://groups.google.com/group/comp… |
Sep 05 11:03 |
| schestowitz |
He’s annoyed because something I submitted made the front page. Gary Stewart (pseudonym “Moshe Goldfarb”, among hundreds more) is a Microsoft Munchkin. He’s also the one that spread libel about me and others. |
Sep 05 11:05 |
| schestowitz |
http://groups.google.com/group/com… |
Sep 05 11:06 |
| trmanco |
he posts along various usenet groups |
Sep 05 11:08 |
| trmanco |
the same messages |
Sep 05 11:08 |
| schestowitz |
Yes, he’s crossposting. I’ll write about such scummy things later today. |
Sep 05 11:08 |
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Sep 05 11:39 |
| trmanco |
the troll is annoying  |
Sep 05 11:51 |
| trmanco |
not even on the M$ newsgroups he is welcome |
Sep 05 11:51 |
| schestowitz |
Nowhere. But the point of Gary Stewart is to ruin USENET and smear Microsoft rivals (products and individuals). |
Sep 05 11:52 |
| schestowitz |
Some people want this Munchkin in prison: http://groups.google.com/g… |
Sep 05 11:54 |
| schestowitz |
Other known Munchkins are then jumping to the man’s rescue (you can see the trolls there). |
Sep 05 11:55 |
| trmanco |
|
Sep 05 12:02 |
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Sep 05 12:08 |
| schestowitz |
Just found some nice photos: http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2008/09… |
Sep 05 12:10 |
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Sep 05 12:13 |
| _Doug |
Yo .. peops with no girlfren .. |
Sep 05 12:14 |
| schestowitz |
What’s up? |
Sep 05 12:15 |
| _Doug |
Nothing much .. I see Chrome has a few bugs :% |
Sep 05 12:16 |
| schestowitz |
There was a Microsoft shill here the other day. |
Sep 05 12:16 |
| schestowitz |
“Consultant (Techical Writer/SDET) at Microsoft” |
Sep 05 12:16 |
| _Doug |
What fud did he inject ? |
Sep 05 12:20 |
| schestowitz |
Asking questions about the Gates Foundation, pitching how wonderful Microsoft can be to FOSS, etc etc. |
Sep 05 12:21 |
| schestowitz |
Then putting it up ‘for display’: http://www.fsdaily.com/Business/B… |
Sep 05 12:22 |
| _Doug |
Ahh .. nice .. |
Sep 05 12:22 |
| _Doug |
Give me a mo to read it .. |
Sep 05 12:22 |
| schestowitz |
His friend, wasabi, is still here. |
Sep 05 12:22 |
| _Doug |
C.J. Collier, never heard of him |
Sep 05 12:24 |
| schestowitz |
Good for you.  |
Sep 05 12:26 |
| _Doug |
“cj> I can’t say that I agree with either of them fully, but their end goal is positive and not self-serving” |
Sep 05 12:30 |
| _Doug |
He’s trolling you ? |
Sep 05 12:30 |
| _Doug |
“< cj> they’ve invested heavily in my daughters’ hospital for one…” |
Sep 05 12:31 |
| _Doug |
Of course that most probably isn’t even true, but the personal touch is nice .. |
Sep 05 12:32 |
| _Doug |
I’ll msg you later on that .. but lets talk Open Source |
Sep 05 12:32 |
| schestowitz |
np |
Sep 05 12:34 |
| schestowitz |
wasabi: your friend from Microsoft wrote: “oh, wassabi is another infiltrat0r, fyi” Are you here to spy like benJIman? |
Sep 05 13:01 |
| benJIman |
Who said I was here to spy? |
Sep 05 13:02 |
| benJIman |
I’m here because it’s entertaining. |
Sep 05 13:02 |
| _Doug |
Roy: ask cj about the MS/Novell covenant and why they censor conversations about it on http://forums.opensuse.org/ |
Sep 05 13:15 |
| schestowitz |
Any examples of censorship? |
Sep 05 13:16 |
| _Doug |
Well, they removed the posts when they ‘upgraded’ the site but google on ‘emacsuser’ and see |
Sep 05 13:16 |
| _Doug |
Can’t find them, but there was a big blahoo about the OpenSuSE covenant, they seems to have all gone .. |
Sep 05 13:18 |
| _Doug |
And the emacsuser was banned and the IP address blocked .. |
Sep 05 13:19 |
| schestowitz |
They lost some posts during the migration. |
Sep 05 13:19 |
| _Doug |
|
Sep 05 13:20 |
| _Doug |
quote: “< cj> .. should vendors who sell Free software be banned from doing business with those who produce proprietary software?” |
Sep 05 13:21 |
| _Doug |
If cj were here I would ask him why ? |
Sep 05 13:21 |
| _Doug |
What imaginary rule is he invoking here ? |
Sep 05 13:22 |
| _Doug |
Free software should remain ‘free’ that’s al lis rqquired of a ‘free software’ company |
Sep 05 13:23 |
| schestowitz |
“cj: ad hominem? Where?” |
Sep 05 13:23 |
| benJIman |
_Doug: the forum is mostly run by non-novell people. |
Sep 05 13:23 |
| schestowitz |
“< cj> schestowitz: laughing and misquoting” |
Sep 05 13:23 |
| schestowitz |
benJIman: it hardly matters. |
Sep 05 13:24 |
| benJIman |
They do not allow all discussion. |
Sep 05 13:24 |
| _Doug |
question: who runs the Novell forum ? |
Sep 05 13:24 |
| benJIman |
The mailing lists are less moderated |
Sep 05 13:24 |
| schestowitz |
He did not ask permission before quoting the IRC text, BTW. |
Sep 05 13:24 |
| benJIman |
_Doug: forums.opensuse.org is not a Novell forum. |
Sep 05 13:24 |
| _Doug |
<benJIman>: that’s the question I didn’t ask .. |
Sep 05 13:25 |
| benJIman |
AFAIK only one person has been banned from the mailing lists. |
Sep 05 13:25 |
| _Doug |
who ? |
Sep 05 13:25 |
| schestowitz |
benJIman: forums.opensuse.org is indepedent from Novell like CA’s governor is independent from Bush. |
Sep 05 13:25 |
| benJIman |
Someone who was constantly attacking many contributors and posting from multiple email addresses. |
Sep 05 13:25 |
| schestowitz |
It’s an illusion. |
Sep 05 13:25 |
| schestowitz |
Who and why, benJIman? |
Sep 05 13:26 |
| _Doug |
Not relevent, I refered to censoring stuff on the Forum, not who runs it … |
Sep 05 13:26 |
| *benJIman tries to remember his name. |
Sep 05 13:26 |
| schestowitz |
Marbux got kicked off the ODF list for threats. |
Sep 05 13:26 |
| _Doug |
What is relevent is the OpenSuSe do-not-sue-end-users covenant .. |
Sep 05 13:26 |
| benJIman |
_Doug: Novell covenants do not have anything todo with openSUSE. |
Sep 05 13:27 |
| benJIman |
schestowitz: Aaron Kulkis |
Sep 05 13:27 |
| _Doug |
And do-not-own-your-own work clause and do-not-work-on-it-in-company-time clause .. |
Sep 05 13:27 |
| _Doug |
Violations to be decided by Microsoft ? |
Sep 05 13:27 |
| benJIman |
_Doug: Microsoft can do what it likes. openSUSE project did not sign any covenant. |
Sep 05 13:28 |
| _Doug |
Deja vu again benJIman, why did the lawyers type it up ? |
Sep 05 13:29 |
| benJIman |
_Doug: type what up? |
Sep 05 13:29 |
| schestowitz |
benJIman: sure they have something to do with OpenSUSE. |
Sep 05 13:29 |
| schestowitz |
Wishful thinking on your behalf. |
Sep 05 13:29 |
| _Doug |
What’s Novell doing recommending Vista, on their own website ? Don’t they a have a desktop offering ? |
Sep 05 13:29 |
| benJIman |
_Doug: Legitimate questions, but it still has nothing to do with openSUSE. |
Sep 05 13:30 |
| _Doug |
The OpenSuSE covenent . .wait let me find it … |
Sep 05 13:30 |
| benJIman |
I assume you’re referring to http://bw.uwcs.co.uk/b/novell_vista_2.png |
Sep 05 13:30 |
| schestowitz |
OpenSUSE pretending that the convenant does not affect it is like FOSS developers pretending they can totally ignore swpatents. |
Sep 05 13:31 |
| benJIman |
schestowitz: Not all software developers live in the US. |
Sep 05 13:31 |
| benJIman |
And ignoring software patents is better than reasearching and becoming liable for triple damages. |
Sep 05 13:31 |
| schestowitz |
benJIman: you’re missing the point. |
Sep 05 13:32 |
| benJIman |
If all microsoft has to do to “taint” a linux distribution is to say it won’t sue users of that distro then it can destroy all linux distributions at no cost to itself |
Sep 05 13:32 |
| schestowitz |
That’s like saying that the covenant affects OpenSUSE developers only if they are Americans |
Sep 05 13:32 |
| _Doug |
<benJIman>: you just described the current situation .. |
Sep 05 13:33 |
| benJIman |
openSUSE developers did not ask for the covenant, they did not sign the covenant. It is completely irrelevant. |
Sep 05 13:33 |
| schestowitz |
Holy molly. The fountain some OpenSUSE devs drink from must be filled with Redmond Kool-Aid. |
Sep 05 13:33 |
| benJIman |
_Doug: So if microsoft issued a statement saying they won’t sue users of ubuntu then you would boycott ubuntu |
Sep 05 13:33 |
| benJIman |
? |
Sep 05 13:33 |
| schestowitz |
What a ridiculous way of posing things. |
Sep 05 13:34 |
| schestowitz |
It’s not about Microsoft. |
Sep 05 13:34 |
| benJIman |
schestowitz: It’s exactly the same situation. |
Sep 05 13:34 |
| schestowitz |
Novell CAME to Microsoft. |
Sep 05 13:34 |
| schestowitz |
It’s Novell that did this. |
Sep 05 13:34 |
| benJIman |
Microsoft issued that statement. |
Sep 05 13:34 |
| benJIman |
And openSUSE is not Novel. |
Sep 05 13:34 |
| schestowitz |
It wanted to “F* kill Red Hat”, to use the words of Steve Bully. |
Sep 05 13:34 |
| schestowitz |
OpenSUSE is funded by Novell, supported by Novell, guided by Novell. |
Sep 05 13:35 |
| benJIman |
Novell cannot accept agreements on behalf of the openSUSE community, only on behalf of itself. |
Sep 05 13:35 |
| schestowitz |
Novell uses the same codebase almost. |
Sep 05 13:35 |
| schestowitz |
What is this ‘community’? |
Sep 05 13:35 |
| schestowitz |
Is it S.u.S.E, which no longer really exists? |
Sep 05 13:35 |
| benJIman |
That is irrelevant. The fact is that the openSUSE community has not agreed to any microsoft covenant. |
Sep 05 13:35 |
| _Doug |
“<benJIman>: _Doug: So if microsoft issued a s” no if Ubuntu entered into an agreement with a third party regarding my legal rights to Ubuntu, then I would tell Ubuntu to get stuffed .. |
Sep 05 13:36 |
| schestowitz |
Novell has a distro copy that’s more accisible and has a bunch of people doing free labour for Novell. |
Sep 05 13:36 |
| benJIman |
_Doug: But openSUSE has not entered into an agreement. Novell has. |
Sep 05 13:36 |
| benJIman |
_Doug: So it is exactly the same scenario. |
Sep 05 13:36 |
| schestowitz |
benJIman: I didn’t agree to many decisions politicians have made, yet I’m still bound by their stupidity. |
Sep 05 13:37 |
| _Doug |
Gimme a minute .. I’ll try and find the releven legalize |
Sep 05 13:37 |
| MinceR |
153442 < benJIman> _Doug: So if microsoft issued a statement saying they won’t sue users of ubuntu then you would boycott ubuntu |
Sep 05 13:38 |
| MinceR |
no, we would boycott it if there was a credible source saying that canonical paid for that. |
Sep 05 13:38 |
| benJIman |
MinceR: Why? |
Sep 05 13:38 |
| MinceR |
what microsoft or novell says has little credibility |
Sep 05 13:39 |
| _Doug |
OK, first we have “Microsoft’s Patent Pledge for Non-Compensated Developers.”, |
Sep 05 13:39 |
| MinceR |
benJIman: because that means they’ve bought into the microsoft/novell FUD campaign/patent racket. |
Sep 05 13:39 |
| _Doug |
http://www.microsoft.com/inte… |
Sep 05 13:39 |
| benJIman |
_Doug: Again irrelevant, it was not signed by the openSUSE project. |
Sep 05 13:39 |
| MinceR |
and that hurts FLOSS and the community. |
Sep 05 13:39 |
| _Doug |
quating PJ: The pledge only holds for you writing software and then using your own software all by your lonesome, not if you distribute or share it. It doesn’t apply to others using your work. |
Sep 05 13:39 |
| MinceR |
also, it hurts just about everyone except those holding a stake in microsoft. |
Sep 05 13:39 |
| benJIman |
MinceR: Because their primary sponsor has doesn’t mean the project has. |
Sep 05 13:40 |
| benJIman |
_Doug: Again nothing todo with openSUSE. |
Sep 05 13:40 |
| MinceR |
in that case, the project will disconnect from its primary sponsor. |
Sep 05 13:40 |
| MinceR |
it’s the responsible thing to do. |
Sep 05 13:40 |
| _Doug |
benJIman>: can a project sign an agreement. ? |
Sep 05 13:40 |
| schestowitz |
benJIman: OpenSUSE has some Novell ownership. It’s not ‘an island’ |
Sep 05 13:40 |
| benJIman |
_Doug: The project leardership could. |
Sep 05 13:40 |
| MinceR |
“some” novell ownership? :> |
Sep 05 13:41 |
| schestowitz |
This illusion that OSUSE has a “Switzerland status” is wishful thinking. |
Sep 05 13:41 |
| schestowitz |
Who is project leader of OpenSUSE, benJIman? |
Sep 05 13:41 |
| *schestowitz know the answer. |
Sep 05 13:41 |
| _Doug |
<benJIman>: but it only applies to the people typing the code |
Sep 05 13:41 |
| benJIman |
schestowitz: There is a board, which is in the process of being reelected at the moment. |
Sep 05 13:41 |
| schestowitz |
Is there Novell money in the board, benJIman? |
Sep 05 13:42 |
| schestowitz |
BTW, there is also a project leader. |
Sep 05 13:42 |
| _Doug |
http://snipurl.com/3nb0t |
Sep 05 13:42 |
| benJIman |
I’m not sure what you mean by project leader. |
Sep 05 13:42 |
| MinceR |
even if there wasn’t, isn’t opensuse using a trademark owned by novell, thus depending on novell not to sue? |
Sep 05 13:42 |
| _Doug |
<benJIman>: what’s OpenSuSe for ? |
Sep 05 13:42 |
| benJIman |
There is a technical lead, and there is a board chairperson who has a veto. |
Sep 05 13:42 |
| benJIman |
(Which has never been used) |
Sep 05 13:43 |
| schestowitz |
You’re escaping my Q. |
Sep 05 13:43 |
| benJIman |
MinceR: Yes that is correct (regarding the trademark) |
Sep 05 13:43 |
| benJIman |
schestowitz: What question? Novell money? There are board members who are employed by Novell. |
Sep 05 13:43 |
| MinceR |
that’s a dangerous position to be in, unless the opensuse guys are comfortable following every whim of microsoft/novell. |
Sep 05 13:44 |
| benJIman |
MinceR: The issue of changing the name has been raised, but not a priority at the moment. |
Sep 05 13:44 |
| schestowitz |
benJIman: thank you |
Sep 05 13:44 |
| _Doug |
<benJIman>: can you produce a list of OpenSuSE developers who didn’t sign the ‘Non-Compensated patent pledge’ ? |
Sep 05 13:44 |
| schestowitz |
So Novell money is on the table of OpenSUSE decision-making. |
Sep 05 13:44 |
| benJIman |
schestowitz: Novell does not require board members to enforce Novell policy. |
Sep 05 13:44 |
| MinceR |
what about the issue of getting rid of board members on novell payroll? |
Sep 05 13:44 |
| schestowitz |
benJIman: “does not require” sounds like legalize. |
Sep 05 13:45 |
| benJIman |
You do seem to be trying to avoid the original point which was that the openSUSE project did not agree to any covenant. |
Sep 05 13:45 |
| schestowitz |
I’m taking about common practice and interest,, not law and regulation. |
Sep 05 13:45 |
| benJIman |
Regardless of whether Novell controls the board (which I dispute) – the board did not agree to the covenant anyway. |
Sep 05 13:45 |
| _Doug |
can you produce a list of OpenSuSE developers who didn’t sign the ‘Non-Compensated patent pledge’ ? |
Sep 05 13:45 |
| benJIman |
_Doug: Not a single one did. |
Sep 05 13:45 |
| schestowitz |
benJIman: don’t run away back to the older point. |
Sep 05 13:45 |
| benJIman |
schestowitz: I’m not running away, you havn’t answered it yet, you are the one trying to run away |
Sep 05 13:46 |
| _Doug |
Can they say so, in their own words … |
Sep 05 13:46 |
| benJIman |
_Doug: If you ask them. |
Sep 05 13:46 |
| benJIman |
_Doug: There’s a list on users.opensuse.org if you want to. |
Sep 05 13:46 |
| schestowitz |
benJIman: did they sign something saying “no” and denouncing Novell like others did? If not, they should. |
Sep 05 13:46 |
| benJIman |
I can tell you that I have not. |
Sep 05 13:46 |
| benJIman |
schestowitz: That’s an interesting possibilty. |
Sep 05 13:47 |
| schestowitz |
I’d have more trust in OpenSUSE when the board issues a statement denouncing the Novell deal and excluding its mindset from it, formally. |
Sep 05 13:47 |
| schestowitz |
All other distros would do so, except Turbolinux and Xandros. |
Sep 05 13:47 |
| benJIman |
Signing a statement saying that the openSUSE project does not accept the patent covenant. |
Sep 05 13:47 |
| *FunkyPenguin (n=forcev@opensuse/member/FunkyPenguin) has joined #boycottnovell |
Sep 05 13:47 |
| schestowitz |
Getting crowded here. |
Sep 05 13:47 |
| schestowitz |
Called for backup, benJIman? |
Sep 05 13:47 |
| benJIman |
schestowitz: Not recently. |
Sep 05 13:47 |
| schestowitz |
FunkyPenguin is of the OpenSUSE project./ |
Sep 05 13:47 |
| benJIman |
ORLY? |
Sep 05 13:47 |
| _Doug |
<benJIman>: OK, where’s OpenSuWE in the Novell firmament ?? |
Sep 05 13:47 |
| benJIman |
_Doug: I don’t understand the question sorry. |
Sep 05 13:48 |
| schestowitz |
benJIman: OpenSUSE should fromally disengage from the deal/Novell |
Sep 05 13:48 |
| schestowitz |
I say this as personal advice because I see how bloggers respond to it. |
Sep 05 13:48 |
| FunkyPenguin |
schestowitz: if you reckon 16 people is crowded you suffer from a bad case of claustrophobia |
Sep 05 13:48 |
| _Doug |
“<benJIman>: _Doug: If you ask them.”, I did ask there and got banned and the IP blocked .. |
Sep 05 13:49 |
| schestowitz |
FunkyPenguin: smart answer, eh? |
Sep 05 13:49 |
| benJIman |
_Doug: I still don’t understand the question. |
Sep 05 13:49 |
| FunkyPenguin |
no not smart, sarcastic |
Sep 05 13:49 |
| MinceR |
it all depends on the size of the room |
Sep 05 13:49 |
| _Doug |
<benJIman>: wither OpenSuSE .. I really want to know .. and you do seem to know ? |
Sep 05 13:49 |
| schestowitz |
Fair enough, FunkyPenguin (Andrew wafaa) |
Sep 05 13:50 |
| benJIman |
_Doug: Please be more specific. |
Sep 05 13:50 |
| FunkyPenguin |
yes that is correct you have worked out the /whois command |
Sep 05 13:50 |
| schestowitz |
I have a GUI. |
Sep 05 13:50 |
| _Doug |
question: who didn’t sign the ‘Non-Compensated’ patent pledge and why |
Sep 05 13:50 |
| FunkyPenguin |
yes and that is the front end to the command |
Sep 05 13:51 |
| schestowitz |
Of course. programming interfaces. Gotta be modular.  |
Sep 05 13:51 |
| FunkyPenguin |
btw schestowitzwhen speaking of openSUSE please use the correct spelling |
Sep 05 13:51 |
| benJIman |
schestowitz: Btw Novell already did formally reject microsoft’s patent protection claims, but openSUSE has not, which might have been a good idea. |
Sep 05 13:51 |
| schestowitz |
FunkyPenguin: I do. |
Sep 05 13:51 |
| benJIman |
On the other hand hardly anyone cares about it now, so there’s not much point dredging it up again. |
Sep 05 13:51 |
| schestowitz |
Novell had this conversation with the community before the deal. |
Sep 05 13:51 |
| FunkyPenguin |
no you dont – (14:49:03) schestowitz: FunkyPenguin is of the OpenSUSE project./ |
Sep 05 13:52 |
| FunkyPenguin |
wrong capitalisation of the first o |
Sep 05 13:52 |
| FunkyPenguin |
common error |
Sep 05 13:52 |
| schestowitz |
I kept morphing and made a clarification. I’ve been consistent since the project started. |
Sep 05 13:52 |
| benJIman |
_Doug: As far as I am aware no openSUSE member signed the patent pledge. But if you want to be certain you’d have to ask them all. |
Sep 05 13:52 |
| schestowitz |
AKAIK, Novell said it should be “OpenSUSE”, but that was a long time ago. Maybe it changes its mind later. |
Sep 05 13:52 |
| schestowitz |
*changed |
Sep 05 13:52 |
| _Doug |
Can’t they won’t let me play ..  |
Sep 05 13:53 |
| benJIman |
_Doug: How did you try? |
Sep 05 13:53 |
| _Doug |
Try it for yourself go over to the forum and say GPL .. |
Sep 05 13:53 |
| schestowitz |
*LOL* |
Sep 05 13:53 |
| MinceR |
actually the GUI is a frontend to the WHOIS irc protocol message, not the /whois irc client command. :> |
Sep 05 13:53 |
| MinceR |
(if we’ve got to be pedantic) |
Sep 05 13:53 |
| benJIman |
schestowitz: I don’t believe it was ever OpenSUSE. There has been S.u.S.E Linux -> SuSE Linux -> SUSE Linux -> openSUSE |
Sep 05 13:53 |
| schestowitz |
I could try to dig up the article, but it would take me ages. |
Sep 05 13:54 |
| schestowitz |
Early 2006, IIRC. Back when I /advocated/ Novell and SUSE. |
Sep 05 13:54 |
| benJIman |
_Doug: The forum is hardly a good medium for such discussion |
Sep 05 13:54 |
| benJIman |
Email people or list. |
Sep 05 13:54 |
| FunkyPenguin |
please do, as I’d like to make sure i’m not correcting people on spelling erroneously |
Sep 05 13:54 |
| schestowitz |
benJIman: what’s the differnece? |
Sep 05 13:54 |
| _Doug |
<benJIman>: rember our last conversation here, and the ‘stuff’ I asked here, the same on the forum. All I want is a straight answer on the forum to the same question. |
Sep 05 13:55 |
| _Doug |
HAAA “<benJIman>: _Doug: The forum is hardly a good medium for such discussion” HAAA |
Sep 05 13:55 |
| _Doug |
It’s a discussion forum for c****t sake ? |
Sep 05 13:55 |
| benJIman |
_Doug: I don’t think you’ll find [many of] the relevant people even read the forum. |
Sep 05 13:55 |
| _Doug |
come off it benJIman |
Sep 05 13:56 |
| schestowitz |
And mailing lists they do…? |
Sep 05 13:56 |
| benJIman |
schestowitz: Yes. |
Sep 05 13:56 |
| _Doug |
It is of course closely monitored .. in’it.. |
Sep 05 13:56 |
| benJIman |
opensuse-project mailing list is where official project discussion happens. |
Sep 05 13:56 |
| _Doug |
Well alI can say is thank god for multiple IP ranges .. |
Sep 05 13:57 |
| FunkyPenguin |
_Doug: define closely monitored? |
Sep 05 13:57 |
| benJIman |
Web forums are just not suitable for such things. For one they’re pull not push so people don’t tend to keep up with them as much. For another they allow “modifying the past” which makes important discussions impossible. |
Sep 05 13:57 |
| _Doug |
allow “modifying the past” .. |
Sep 05 13:58 |
| FunkyPenguin |
very much like blog posts |
Sep 05 13:58 |
| benJIman |
_Doug: You can edit posts you’ve made. |
Sep 05 13:58 |
| benJIman |
_Doug: plus even if you couldn’t, the administrators could. |
Sep 05 13:58 |
| _Doug |
Where ? |
Sep 05 13:58 |
| benJIman |
emails are sent and then everyone has a copy. |
Sep 05 13:59 |
| _Doug |
benJIman: what’s openSuSE for, who is it directed at ? |
Sep 05 14:00 |
| schestowitz |
*LOL* modifying the past. |
Sep 05 14:00 |
| schestowitz |
Sounds like Novell. |
Sep 05 14:00 |
| benJIman |
^_^ |
Sep 05 14:00 |
| _Doug |
What market, niche .. there is a desktop beign offered with it pre-installed, somewhere, I forget .. ? |
Sep 05 14:00 |
| benJIman |
_Doug: Anyone. |
Sep 05 14:00 |
| schestowitz |
benJIman: people can have a copy of old blog posts and forum posts too. |
Sep 05 14:01 |
| _Doug |
But in relation to SLED .. come on .. this isn’t a track question .. |
Sep 05 14:01 |
| benJIman |
schestowitz: They can. Doesn’t mean they will. |
Sep 05 14:01 |
| _Doug |
trick .. |
Sep 05 14:01 |
| schestowitz |
Are toy suggesting that Novell like revisionism? |
Sep 05 14:01 |
| schestowitz |
*likes |
Sep 05 14:01 |
| benJIman |
Anyway the point was that the openSUSE forums are not [currently] used for official discussion of any form. |
Sep 05 14:01 |
| benJIman |
Regardless of whether they would be suitable for doing so. |
Sep 05 14:01 |
| schestowitz |
benJIman: Novell tore down Web pages that criticise Microsoft, you know? |
Sep 05 14:01 |
| schestowitz |
Many of them in fact, right after the dea. |
Sep 05 14:01 |
| schestowitz |
*deal |
Sep 05 14:02 |
| benJIman |
schestowitz: I wouldn’t like to comment unless you gave an example. |
Sep 05 14:02 |
| schestowitz |
Hold on. |
Sep 05 14:02 |
| _Doug |
official discussion: I asked the peopel posting there on a) the conenant and b) the GPL .. someone sure don’t want them talked about .. |
Sep 05 14:03 |
| _Doug |
Personally after the ad hominems and abuse I recieved there, I moved on . .that’s after months of contributing to technical discussions there .. |
Sep 05 14:03 |
| benJIman |
The forums havn’t even existed for many months. |
Sep 05 14:04 |
| _Doug |
OH, bollix .. before they moved .. |
Sep 05 14:04 |
| benJIman |
_Doug: Well they were split into several then, which are you referring to? |
Sep 05 14:04 |
| schestowitz |
http://boycottnovell.com/2006/11/… |
Sep 05 14:05 |
| _Doug |
And after, with a new IP of course . .why ban a whole range of IP addresses .. it only pisses off people .. |
Sep 05 14:05 |
| benJIman |
_Doug: In any case, if you have a legitmate question bring it up on the mailing list. |
Sep 05 14:06 |
| FunkyPenguin |
schestowitz: question for you, obviously no guarantees or anything here but – if Novell ended up placating you and succumbed to all of your requests and demands re the MS deal and any other burning desire you had, then what? would you contribute to openSUSE? |
Sep 05 14:07 |
| benJIman |
schestowitz: Ah you’re talking about Novell pages. |
Sep 05 14:07 |
| benJIman |
That may be. |
Sep 05 14:07 |
| _Doug |
bit ot: Novells bottom line isn’t where it should, they recently got another cash-infusion from MS. Where do you see Novell going in the future, financial wise ? |
Sep 05 14:08 |
| FunkyPenguin |
_Doug: you’d need to ask one of their shareholders |
Sep 05 14:09 |
| _Doug |
How about them merging with an OEM and selling their own high-end multi-media solution ? |
Sep 05 14:09 |
| FunkyPenguin |
if you noticed the trend their open platform business division grew very well last quarter and that is without the MS cash |
Sep 05 14:10 |
| _Doug |
FunkyPenguin: why does Dells Linux desktop cost more than the Windows desktop. Is Windows causing entropy to go into reverse, eg negative revenue ? |
Sep 05 14:10 |
| FunkyPenguin |
good question and one a lot of people are asking them, HP and IBM can make the numbers work the opposite way, as in linux is cheaper |
Sep 05 14:11 |
| _Doug |
There’s big-buks in multi-media .. ask billg .. subscriptions services .. closed protocols .. a penny for every bit transfered through the tUbes .. |
Sep 05 14:11 |
| FunkyPenguin |
part of that could be down to the support mechanism that the respective companies have |
Sep 05 14:12 |
| schestowitz |
FunkyPenguin: I don’t expect it to happen at this stage. Novell has already done a lot of damage to GNU/Linux, in virtualisation for example. |
Sep 05 14:12 |
| FunkyPenguin |
schestowitz: how has it damaged linux in virtualisation? |
Sep 05 14:12 |
| schestowitz |
benJIman: yes, these are the Novell pages. What’s surprising about it being about Novell? |
Sep 05 14:12 |
| *FunkyPenguin isn’t aware of the virtualisation issue |
Sep 05 14:13 |
| schestowitz |
FunkyPenguin: Novell is dying financially. You are incorrect on that point. |
Sep 05 14:13 |
| FunkyPenguin |
um no, i think financially they are actually growing |
Sep 05 14:14 |
| FunkyPenguin |
even Matt Asay agrees |
Sep 05 14:14 |
| schestowitz |
_Doug: Dell pays Microsoft some ‘Linux tax’. It had Novell to usher its way to Microsoft back in May 2007. |
Sep 05 14:14 |
| FunkyPenguin |
and he has been one of Novells biggest critics since he left the company |
Sep 05 14:14 |
| benJIman |
schestowitz: From the context it sounded like you were saying Novell were censoring pages by other people. |
Sep 05 14:14 |
| _Doug |
“dying financially” not so .. it may be undervalued . .but the core technologies are worth big-bucks .. if deployed correctly .. not doing business with your most dangerous cenemy and alienating your own potential partners, for instance .. |
Sep 05 14:15 |
| schestowitz |
FunkyPenguin: Novell helped Microsoft exclude GNU/Linux distros in virt. It made ‘approves’ and ‘unapproves’ guests. |
Sep 05 14:15 |
| schestowitz |
There are other things too, e.g. Xen. I’ll post about it later. |
Sep 05 14:15 |
| schestowitz |
FunkyPenguin: Asay was brainwashed by Novell. I asked him,. |
Sep 05 14:15 |
| *mib_xgg8lu (i=5496cca5@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1586c7bf88667416) has joined #boycottnovell |
Sep 05 14:15 |
| *taq (n=taq@189.20.85.30) has joined #boycottnovell |
Sep 05 14:16 |
| schestowitz |
Those that just parrot Novell PR need to be ignored. |
Sep 05 14:16 |
| schestowitz |
BTW, Asay used to work at Novell. |
Sep 05 14:16 |
| FunkyPenguin |
duh yeah i know he did and he never hid that fact when laying into novell |
Sep 05 14:16 |
| schestowitz |
benJIman: no, but that was never the point. Look back at the script. |
Sep 05 14:16 |
| _Doug |
I would snap Novell up, and allign it for the next multi-media revolution, on the servers, the desktop, content. What they used to call 3G, telephone, television and Internet, all in the one box that I can buy in the high street computer shop. |
Sep 05 14:17 |
| schestowitz |
_Doug: Novell doesn’t like to have rivals like Debian |
Sep 05 14:17 |
| FunkyPenguin |
schestowitz: you still havent answered my question though |
Sep 05 14:17 |
| schestowitz |
It would rather pay some money to Big Mike (the Bully) to kick those other kids in the knees. |
Sep 05 14:17 |
| _Doug |
Internet television, it;s like … television and the Internet + adveertising .. ohh the innovation !!! |
Sep 05 14:17 |
| schestowitz |
FunkyPenguin: which Q? |
Sep 05 14:18 |
| schestowitz |
_Doug: I’m sure someone had entire huge patents (and pools) on it by now. |
Sep 05 14:18 |
| schestowitz |
Google recently got whacked over AdSense (targetting I think). |
Sep 05 14:18 |
| _Doug |
I must step away for a few moments .. |
Sep 05 14:19 |
| schestowitz |
Blame the US Pee Tea Oh!!!! |
Sep 05 14:19 |
| FunkyPenguin |
schestowitz: if Novell ended up placating you and succumbed to all of your requests and demands re the MS deal and any other burning desire you had, then what? would you contribute to openSUSE? |
Sep 05 14:19 |
| schestowitz |
What requests? |
Sep 05 14:20 |
| schestowitz |
The requests were made in 2006. |
Sep 05 14:20 |
| schestowitz |
Novell is far too deep in it now. OOXML, Mono, Xentrix…. |
Sep 05 14:20 |
| taq |
what is that cj thing? |
Sep 05 14:20 |
| taq |
http://wp.colliertech.org/cj/?p=237 |
Sep 05 14:20 |
| schestowitz |
taq: give me a moment. |
Sep 05 14:20 |
| schestowitz |
I’ll post about it in 2 minutes. |
Sep 05 14:20 |
| taq |
k |
Sep 05 14:21 |
| taq |
I’m still reading it … |
Sep 05 14:21 |
| schestowitz |
I post a quick response to it. |
Sep 05 14:22 |
| schestowitz |
It’s not one incident. http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/… |
Sep 05 14:25 |
| taq |
let me see … |
Sep 05 14:27 |
| schestowitz |
“C.J. Collier, long-time Free Software supporter…” You mean… “a Microsoft consultant,” right? (from http://www.fsdaily.com/Bu… ) |
Sep 05 14:27 |
| schestowitz |
Typical example of Microsoft moles in the clothing of FOSS people. It makes them seem credibility-worthy. |
Sep 05 14:28 |
| FunkyPenguin |
so your jihad is as all jihads are an ideological one and not one of measured response? you forget that Novell is a business that has to report to share holders. if they dont see a return on their investment they pull that money and go elsewhere. unfortunatly business of Novell’s nature very rarely mixes well with community wants and wishes straight away. This is an unfortunate reality and even one that the likes of IBM Sun and |
Sep 05 14:28 |
| schestowitz |
Jihad? |
Sep 05 14:28 |
| schestowitz |
That’s Microsoft terminology < http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uplo… >. I don’t use Microsoft’s religious terms. |
Sep 05 14:29 |
| FunkyPenguin |
no it’s actually and isalmic term not MS |
Sep 05 14:29 |
| FunkyPenguin |
if one prefers im happy to use crusade instead |
Sep 05 14:30 |
| schestowitz |
Microsoft adopts it to teach marketing people |
Sep 05 14:30 |
| schestowitz |
Crusade is also religious.. cross. |
Sep 05 14:30 |
| FunkyPenguin |
as do many people as it is a well understood term for an irrational war of ideals |
Sep 05 14:30 |
| FunkyPenguin |
indeed it is |
Sep 05 14:30 |
| schestowitz |
It’s a search for truth, nothing religious or violent. |
Sep 05 14:30 |
| FunkyPenguin |
certainly idealogical though |
Sep 05 14:31 |
| schestowitz |
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ideology |
Sep 05 14:31 |
| FunkyPenguin |
the truth is not always what you wish it to be though, quite often it is ugly and painful |
Sep 05 14:31 |
| schestowitz |
“the body of ideas and beliefs of a person, group, or nation” |
Sep 05 14:31 |
| schestowitz |
I think, therefore I am |
Sep 05 14:31 |
| FunkyPenguin |
yes |
Sep 05 14:31 |
| FunkyPenguin |
i never said it wasnt. please pay attention to what im saying |
Sep 05 14:32 |
| schestowitz |
If people disagree, they read other blogs. |
Sep 05 14:32 |
| FunkyPenguin |
indeed |
Sep 05 14:32 |
| taq |
FunkyPenguin: agree, that’s why we need to always ask for answers and not have some blind faith on somebody who called Free Software an enemy and on a couple of years say it’s a friend and everybody believe on that |
Sep 05 14:32 |
| FunkyPenguin |
if people dislike a product they choose a different one |
Sep 05 14:32 |
| schestowitz |
Some do, some don’t. Some people agree that Microsoft and Novell steal their work and betray them. |
Sep 05 14:32 |
| taq |
I think it’s amazing people trust microsoft now when they say so. |
Sep 05 14:33 |
| FunkyPenguin |
there are many reasons to trust someone |
Sep 05 14:33 |
| taq |
yes, and to not trust |
Sep 05 14:33 |
| taq |
history show us a ugly picture of what they done on the past |
Sep 05 14:33 |
| mib_xgg8lu |
schestowitz: Who says that Microsoft and Novell steal their work and betray them? |
Sep 05 14:33 |
| FunkyPenguin |
keep your friends close, but your enemies closer is also a good reason for trust |
Sep 05 14:33 |
| schestowitz |
taq: Microsoft rewards people for love. |
Sep 05 14:34 |
| taq |
and if you read some fresh reports coming from there, they still believe Free Software is a menace |
Sep 05 14:34 |
| schestowitz |
I say this based on what I hear from people. |
Sep 05 14:34 |
| schestowitz |
schestowitz: are you with OpenSUSE? |
Sep 05 14:34 |
| FunkyPenguin |
taq: that is most likely due to a cultural thing |
Sep 05 14:34 |
| tessier |
Wow, I guess you got under cj’s skin. |
Sep 05 14:34 |
| schestowitz |
taq: they called FOSS the biggest threat 2 months ago (Ray Ozzie). |
Sep 05 14:35 |
| mib_xgg8lu |
schestowitz: Then this makes me wonder why they released their work under a license which makes that possible instead of choosing one which forbids it. |
Sep 05 14:35 |
| taq |
it’s ok you have a menace to your business, but the way microsoft (and – let be honest – a lot of other megacorporations) fix this is unbelievable |
Sep 05 14:35 |
| schestowitz |
But hey! They figure they can tell you they love FOSS and then warp it to become a Microsoft cash cow. |
Sep 05 14:35 |
| schestowitz |
tessier: I didn’t realise that [H]omer kicked him |
Sep 05 14:35 |
| taq |
I’d be very happy if their solutions were not on the political and economic field |
Sep 05 14:35 |
| taq |
but after vista, will be hard |
Sep 05 14:35 |
| schestowitz |
I saw it after I had woken up. |
Sep 05 14:35 |
| schestowitz |
Vista was a catalyst for the May 2007 attacks, I reckon (in part) |
Sep 05 14:36 |
| taq |
dudes, if you don’t give a **** on the way some politicals and companies act those days, this discussion is irrelevant |
Sep 05 14:36 |
| schestowitz |
http://boycottnovell.com/2007/… |
Sep 05 14:37 |
| taq |
but personally I’m tired of this kind of … pardon me, “capitalist way of life”, where companies are allowed to do everything they want. |
Sep 05 14:37 |
| taq |
not saying that capitalism is a bad thing, please |
Sep 05 14:37 |
| wasabi |
I like it. I seem to be well fed and entertained |
Sep 05 14:37 |
| schestowitz |
Carelessness of convenience (because OpenSUSE is together in the mud with Novell’s reptation) |
Sep 05 14:37 |
| schestowitz |
wasabi: who are you with? Microsoft, like CJ? |
Sep 05 14:38 |
| taq |
but it’s a disgusting situation |
Sep 05 14:38 |
| schestowitz |
It says Ubuntu member, but CJ says otherwise. |
Sep 05 14:38 |
| wasabi |
Yeah. I get a pay check from MS twice a week. |
Sep 05 14:39 |
| schestowitz |
Good for you. |
Sep 05 14:39 |
| schestowitz |
|
Sep 05 14:39 |
| taq |
wasabi: that’s not a bad thing if you’re not trying to screw somebody else. you know what I mean |
Sep 05 14:40 |
| taq |
screw with hidden and dirty games |
Sep 05 14:40 |
| wasabi |
Why is it a bad thing period, again? |
Sep 05 14:40 |
| taq |
the following row |
Sep 05 14:41 |
| wasabi |
and yes, i’m an ubuntu member. |
Sep 05 14:41 |
| taq |
as I said, hidden and dirty games. that’s horrible |
Sep 05 14:42 |
| taq |
if it’s a fair competition, at least for me, it’s ok |
Sep 05 14:43 |
| wasabi |
oh. why? |
Sep 05 14:43 |
| taq |
I was saying about this above. for me it’s disguting how some problems are solved these days. |
Sep 05 14:43 |
| wasabi |
I dont really see how today is any different from the past, except better. |
Sep 05 14:44 |
| taq |
wasabi: I think today we’re here and maybe we can make a difference |
Sep 05 14:44 |
| taq |
maybe |
Sep 05 14:44 |
| schestowitz |
taq: a word of caution. “sj” came here along with wasabi and wrote “”oh, wassabi is another infiltrat0r, fyi” |
Sep 05 14:44 |
| wasabi |
this is all very non specific. |
Sep 05 14:44 |
| wasabi |
what sort of difference? |
Sep 05 14:44 |
| wasabi |
what does that even mean, infiltrat0r? |
Sep 05 14:45 |
| schestowitz |
Do you know CJ? |
Sep 05 14:45 |
| wasabi |
Yes. |
Sep 05 14:45 |
| tessier |
Someone here for the purpose of trolling |
Sep 05 14:45 |
| schestowitz |
How? |
Sep 05 14:45 |
| tessier |
Not helping |
Sep 05 14:45 |
| wasabi |
I read his blog every now and then, he’s on planet gnome… or monologoue… one of the two. |
Sep 05 14:46 |
| wasabi |
and i talk to him in #mono every now and then |
Sep 05 14:46 |
| taq |
a difference about how things were on the past and how they are today. if I can talk about how bribery and political games are not a way to solve technical problems, I can do that. and I’m free do to that on the same way you’re free to disagree |
Sep 05 14:46 |
| wasabi |
what? |
Sep 05 14:46 |
| taq |
what what? |
Sep 05 14:46 |
| wasabi |
i have no idea what you just said |
Sep 05 14:47 |
| _Doug |
gtg .. |
Sep 05 14:48 |
| taq |
well, you asked “what sort of difference” |
Sep 05 14:48 |
| *_Doug has quit (“http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client”) |
Sep 05 14:48 |
| wasabi |
and you didn’t have a difference in there. you said something about you had a right to disagree? |
Sep 05 14:48 |
| wasabi |
i’m asking what sort of difference you’re trying to make… not whether you’re allowed to disagree. |
Sep 05 14:48 |
| taq |
ok, you mentioned the past, right? |
Sep 05 14:48 |
| wasabi |
of course you’re allowed to disagree. |
Sep 05 14:48 |
