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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: September 5th, 2008 – Part III

Posted in IRC Logs at 2:29 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

Enter the IRC channel now

[H]omer I don’t Sep 05 17:50
schestowitz Novell didn’t like people who type opensuse and Opensuse Sep 05 17:50
schestowitz IIRC Sep 05 17:50
[H]omer No more than I’d blame Fedora if Red Hat sold out Sep 05 17:50
schestowitz Unless majority vote counts… Sep 05 17:51
schestowitz Like Americans trying to tell Brits how to spell English words. Sep 05 17:51
benJIman It’s not a word, it’s a name. Sep 05 17:51
schestowitz Yes, it is. Sep 05 17:51
[H]omer Well i still write SuSE, like the good old days. Sep 05 17:51
[H]omer Before Sweaty Ballmer’s “235 patents” Sep 05 17:52
schestowitz Haha. Microsoft’s IDC is kicking Novell in the crotch now:  http://www.itworldcanada.com/a/D… Sep 05 17:52
*benJIman wonders if Ballmer being sweaty validates your argument. Sep 05 17:52
schestowitz Enjoying the dance with the Devil, Ron? Sep 05 17:52
schestowitz I guess Ron won’t be getting IDC loves until he bribes Gillen and his groupies. Sep 05 17:53
schestowitz Maybe Novell can borrow some more money from Ballmer to pay IDC for good coverage. Sep 05 17:53
[H]omer SUSE people just don’t seem to understand that the attacks are not directed towards them as individuals, it’s dissent against Microsoft and anyone who supports them. Surely that’s clear enough. And do I really need to remind such people *why* we dissent against that convicted monopolist? Sep 05 17:53
benJIman [H]omer: Do you actually read any of the articles on boyblog? They frequently attack openSUSE and developers working on free software. Sep 05 17:54
[H]omer I am not BN, I am me. Sep 05 17:55
schestowitz benJIman: attack who? People who mistakenly or knowingly help Microsoft against FOSS? Sep 05 17:56
[H]omer You attacking *all* dissenters is as bigoted as you seem to think we are towards SUSE. That’s hypocrisy benJIman. Sep 05 17:56
schestowitz They also attacked journalists over this. Sep 05 17:56
schestowitz That’s the most repulsive form of censorship Sep 05 17:56
benJIman Where was I attacking all dissenters? Sep 05 17:56
[H]omer “They frequently attack openSUSE” Sep 05 17:56
schestowitz To just write my mind out quickly, Novell pretty much ‘gagged’ Seigo before the latest announcement and I’ve inquired a bit. Sep 05 17:57
[H]omer Who’s “they”? Sep 05 17:57
benJIman [H]omer: The articles. Sep 05 17:57
schestowitz SJVN too was contacted by Novell and Asay too. Sep 05 17:57
schestowitz Surprise surprise/ Sep 05 17:57
schestowitz The world then thinks that it’s all okay if Novell falls into Mirosoft’s arms and there’s no dissent in the media. So it must be OK Sep 05 17:57
schestowitz In my eyes, what Novell did at the time (I documented this with good solid proof) is like  the things the Bush Regime does to defend its abuse. Sep 05 17:58
[H]omer So let me ask you quite bluntly benJIman, just to clear this up, do you or do you not support Microsoft? Sep 05 17:58
benJIman [H]omer: How do you define support? Sep 05 17:58
schestowitz And careful and carless developers alike just gaze and this and reckon that the media is ‘right’ and that the deal is one to accept. Sep 05 17:58
schestowitz They leave it to ‘the experts’ Sep 05 17:58
[H]omer benJIman, you sound like Gates answering questions for the DOJ. “Define uninstall”? Sep 05 17:59
benJIman [H]omer: I use Free software on all my own machines, I don’t buy any microsoft products. I work with c#, .net, asp.net etc at work. Sep 05 17:59
[H]omer Surely you know what the word “support” means. Sep 05 17:59
benJIman So I don’t really know what you’re asking. Sep 05 17:59
benJIman I don’t give them money or use their products on my own time. Sep 05 17:59
[H]omer Do you support Microsoft’s anti-Linux agenda? Sep 05 18:00
[H]omer When Microsoft sabotaged Mandriva and the OLPC, did you support that? Sep 05 18:00
schestowitz Assimilation maybe. Sep 05 18:00
benJIman No. Sep 05 18:00
schestowitz As in, Microsoft dictates for Linux programmers. Sep 05 18:00
schestowitz That’s what Mono is about. Sep 05 18:00
benJIman I do like mono. Sep 05 18:00
benJIman but I prefer java. Sep 05 18:01
[H]omer benJIman, then if you don’t support Microsoft, why do you support those who do, such as Novell? Sep 05 18:01
[H]omer “The friend of my enemy is also mu enemy” Sep 05 18:01
benJIman [H]omer: I don’t support Novell per se. I even disagree with a lot they do. Sep 05 18:01
[H]omer Then why come here to  be “entertained”? Sep 05 18:02
schestowitz * OT: On Ellison and possible fraud: http://www.forbes.com/markets/2008/09/… Sep 05 18:02
benJIman I think their SLE licensing model is not sensible. I think the patent part of the covenant was unfortunate. I really don’t like groupwise, ichain and such. Sep 05 18:03
[H]omer benJIman, if you were to just think about exactly *why* we dissent, and specifically *who* we dissent against, then perhaps you’d realise that these “attacks” are not directed against you; the community; or openSUSE. Sep 05 18:03
Odd_Bloke benJIman: You like Java? Sep 05 18:04
Odd_Bloke Do you support Sun? Sep 05 18:04
benJIman :o Odd_Bloke is here. Sep 05 18:04
schestowitz ” I think the patent part of the covenant was unfortunate.” Please elaborate Sep 05 18:05
[H]omer Java is pure GPL now, that should be a good enough reason. Then there’s OO.org too, of course. Sep 05 18:05
schestowitz Unfortunate? Sep 05 18:05
schestowitz There’s no fortune Sep 05 18:05
benJIman [H]omer: In that case why don’t you post an article on boycottnovell.com stating that you don’t have anything against openSUSE nor that they are responsible for or bound by Novell’s actions. Sep 05 18:05
Odd_Bloke Java isn’t pure GPL, it’s a trademark. Sep 05 18:05
schestowitz Novell came to Microsoft /asking/  for this. Sep 05 18:05
[H]omer benJIman, I’m not required to refute that which I have never claimed. Sep 05 18:06
Odd_Bloke Yeah, who gives a crap about good will in the free software community. Sep 05 18:06
[H]omer benJIman, why don’t you post an article denouncing murder, or theft, or war, for example. Sep 05 18:06
[H]omer benJIman, presumably you’ve never stated your support for those things, so why denounce them? Sep 05 18:07
[H]omer benJIman, I tell you what, why don’t you quote some “anti-openSUSE attack” here, and I’ll tell you now whether or not I support that assertion? Sep 05 18:08
benJIman [H]omer: Apologies, I did not mean you personally, but boycottnovell collectively. Sep 05 18:09
[H]omer I’m here to dissent against Microsoft and *all* their supporters. That’s all. Sep 05 18:10
[H]omer Does the openSUSE community support Microsoft? Sep 05 18:10
Odd_Bloke What does ‘support’ mean? Sep 05 18:10
[H]omer If not then … there’s your answer. Sep 05 18:10
Odd_Bloke I had to boot up Vista at work yesterday to test that a website I was working on would work in IE7. Sep 05 18:11
Odd_Bloke Does that count as supporting Microsoft? Sep 05 18:11
benJIman [H]omer: There is nothing that has been signed by contributors that even mentions Microsoft afaik. Sep 05 18:11
benJIman Odd_Bloke: Clearly you are a Microsoft Shill. ¬_¬ Sep 05 18:11
Odd_Bloke MSFT FTW. >.< Sep 05 18:12
[H]omer Odd_Bloke, support … as in “believe in”, “follow”, “give assistance to”, “praise”, “be happy about”, “be content with”, “want”, “like”, etc. I hope that’s clear. Sep 05 18:13
schestowitz Odd_Bloke: are you also in the Opensuse channel ATM? Sep 05 18:13
Odd_Bloke schestowitz: I think so, I was supporting a customer through an upgrade a couple of days ago. Sep 05 18:13
Odd_Bloke And having no experience with openSUSE myself needed a hand. Sep 05 18:14
schestowitz So you’re ganging up here. Sep 05 18:14
Odd_Bloke Uhm, no. Sep 05 18:14
[H]omer When people start demanding definitions for simple words like “support”, that looks highly evasive to me. Much like Gates answering questions for the DOJ. You should look at it some time, it’s hilarious. Sep 05 18:14
schestowitz We also have 3 ‘mibs’ Sep 05 18:14
schestowitz Who ae eerily quiet I might add. Sep 05 18:14
schestowitz [H]omer: “what do you mean by ‘hilarious’?” Sep 05 18:15
[H]omer http://antitrust.slated.org/g… Sep 05 18:15
Odd_Bloke No, hilarious is a well-defined word. Sep 05 18:15
benJIman [H]omer: The point is that unless the members of the community have signed a statement of support I don’t know how you expect the question to be answered. Sep 05 18:15
[H]omer Hilarious because of Gates’ squirming around trying to avoid questions, whilst rocking back and forth in his chair Sep 05 18:15
schestowitz Needs some Kaffeine Sep 05 18:15
Odd_Bloke But ‘support’ can mean many different things in different contexts. Sep 05 18:15
Odd_Bloke I ‘support’ Windows in that some of our clients run it. Sep 05 18:16
schestowitz *sigh* Sep 05 18:16
Odd_Bloke But I in no way ‘support’ proprietary software or Microsoft ideologically. Sep 05 18:16
schestowitz The conclusion I reach is that OpenSUSE people quietly endorse the deal Sep 05 18:16
schestowitz Or… they are not willing to resist it. Sep 05 18:16
schestowitz That too is support, albeit through passiveness and apathy. Sep 05 18:17
schestowitz Thanks for elucidating. Sep 05 18:17
Odd_Bloke Or they realise that doing and creating free software is better than talking about non-free software. Sep 05 18:17
[H]omer benJIman, but your very presence here for “entertainment” indicates you challenge our dissent – think it’s a joke. Sep 05 18:17
benJIman schestowitz: I do not endorse the deal, and I disagree with the patent covenant. Though I think the unfortunate wording was more down to Novell management being epic noobs than the conspiracy theories. Sep 05 18:18
Odd_Bloke [H]omer: It is in no way just openSUSE people that consider your ‘dissent’ a joke. Sep 05 18:18
Odd_Bloke But, no doubt, you could find enough of a link to Microsoft to salve your noble spirit. Sep 05 18:18
Odd_Bloke Oh, I should note that I know benJIman through university, not through openSUSE. Sep 05 18:19
Odd_Bloke That’s how he recognised me when I spoke up, not through our sworn allegiance to Satan. Sep 05 18:20
[H]omer Odd_Bloke, OK then, please explain what’s so funny about what Microsoft did in Nigeria to Mandriva, or Sweden with OOXML? And what’s so “funny” about people who dissent against that, and dissent against those who support Microsoft? Sep 05 18:20
schestowitz For people who purport to be happy about SUSE, you seem very keen to ‘entertain’ yourselves here. Sep 05 18:20
schestowitz Or Novell’s alleged fraud for that matter. Sep 05 18:21
schestowitz They paid $14 million for these allegations to go away. Sep 05 18:21
benJIman [H]omer: I don’t think you’ll find that anyone suggested those things were funny. Sep 05 18:21
schestowitz Better learn to love Microsoft, you two, because Hovsepian indicates that the number of collaborations with Ballmer will triple (up to about 27) Sep 05 18:21
Odd_Bloke I don’t take issue with your dissent against Microsoft because its dissent against Microsoft, I take issue with you being so flagrantly bad at it. Sep 05 18:22
[H]omer benJIman, but you’re here to be “entertained”, are you not? Sep 05 18:22
Odd_Bloke You’re a laughing stock, because you froth at the mouth. Sep 05 18:22
schestowitz Since Microsoft fights FOSS and breaks the law in the process even, Novell is fighting FOSS too. And as I emphasized before, more people realise this. Sep 05 18:22
Odd_Bloke You’re an object of ridicule which the other side can hold up to make the entire community look stupid. Sep 05 18:22
schestowitz There’s a reason why more people follow BN and it’s not because there’s anything more than independent suspicion and relisation. Sep 05 18:23
Odd_Bloke _That_ is why I take issue. Sep 05 18:23
*PetoKraus (n=Peter@78-86-98-119.zone2.bethere.co.uk) has joined #boycottnovell Sep 05 18:23
schestowitz Hi, PetoKraus Sep 05 18:23
[H]omer Odd_Bloke, so it’s funny when people are “outraged” by corruption now, is it? What do *you* do, shrug your shoulders and stick your head in the sand, I suppose. Sep 05 18:23
schestowitz Because he loves his OpenSUSE. Sep 05 18:23
[H]omer But anti-Microsoft != anti-openSUSE Sep 05 18:24
[H]omer Unless the openSUSE community is declaring their support for Microsoft Sep 05 18:24
Odd_Bloke [H]omer: I’m currently employed at a free software consultancy, I work on bzr and Debian packaging when I get home from said job, I participate in my local GLUG. Sep 05 18:24
Odd_Bloke If we’re going to beat them, we have to do it by being _better_. Sep 05 18:25
Odd_Bloke Being right isn’t good enough. Sep 05 18:25
[H]omer Odd_Bloke, good, then you hate Microsoft as much as I do then? Sep 05 18:25
*moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovell Sep 05 18:27
[H]omer I don’t need to prove that the Free Software community is “right” (as in morally right), and that Microsoft is wrong. That much is patently obvious. But I do want to spread that word as far and loud as I can. Sep 05 18:27
Odd_Bloke I don’t think I’d characterise it as hate. Sep 05 18:27
[H]omer What I’m saying is it’s time to pick a side, and stop sitting on the fence. Sep 05 18:27
Odd_Bloke Uhm, I’ve picked my side. Sep 05 18:27
[H]omer Microsoft is our self-declared enemy “Linux is a cancer”. Start treating them as such. Sep 05 18:28
[H]omer If no one ever dissents against them, then they will continue to corrupt IT with complete impunity. Do you really want that? Sep 05 18:29
schestowitz http://www.webwire.com/ViewPres… Novell: “reducing the problems associated with deploying new operating system (OS) platforms like Vista, decreasing expensive service desk calls and increasing user productivity.” Sep 05 18:29
[H]omer Would you tolerate a mass-murderer on the loose? Microsoft “murders” software Freedom. Sep 05 18:30
[H]omer It sabotages Linux. Sep 05 18:30
Odd_Bloke No, I wouldn’t. Sep 05 18:30
schestowitz This happens to be true, but Microsoft has a good lawyer. Sep 05 18:30
Odd_Bloke But comparing a human life to software freedom is pretty simple-minded. Sep 05 18:30
schestowitz It’s like a criminal that claims to have helped the community, been a good husband etc. Sep 05 18:30
[H]omer Crime is crime, surely? Sep 05 18:31
schestowitz Odd_Bloke: our society becomes digital Sep 05 18:31
[H]omer Tolerate it, or fight again it. Sep 05 18:31
[H]omer *against Sep 05 18:31
schestowitz Those who are poor die from hunger sometimes. Sep 05 18:31
Odd_Bloke You seem to have a very narrow view of both dissent and fighting against proprietary software. Sep 05 18:31
Odd_Bloke Both of which seem to involve making a lot of noise. Sep 05 18:32
[H]omer My fight is not against “proprietary software”, it’s against Microsoft – convicted monopolists and racketeers. Sep 05 18:32
Odd_Bloke That’s where you and I differ. Sep 05 18:33
schestowitz Proprietary software is dangerous when it’s equipped or accompanies with malice. Sep 05 18:33
[H]omer I don’t care about other proprietary software companies, like AutoDesk, for example, because AutoDesk do not attack the Free Software community. Sep 05 18:33
schestowitz It gives total control over the user who pays for it. Sep 05 18:33
schestowitz When you buy a car, the car does not control you. You can open up the bonnet. Sep 05 18:33
[H]omer Look at Adobe, for example. I wouldn’t exactly call them Free Software evangelists, and yet they are friendly towards Linux. They are a business, and need to make money, but they do this without sabotaging the competition or attacking Free Software. Sep 05 18:35
[H]omer Only Microsoft do this Sep 05 18:35
[H]omer IBM *used* to be a culprit too Sep 05 18:35
[H]omer But now they’ve sided with Linux against Microsoft Sep 05 18:36
Odd_Bloke GNU/Linux. Sep 05 18:36
[H]omer Microsoft is the *only* threat Sep 05 18:36
schestowitz Odd_Bloke: IBM is odd with GNU Sep 05 18:36
[H]omer “Linux” shorthand/convenience. No disrespect to the FSF. Sep 05 18:36
Odd_Bloke In what way are they a threat? Sep 05 18:36
schestowitz IBM is behind the marketing group called Linux Foundation Sep 05 18:37
schestowitz But IBM helps FSF financially, I suspect Sep 05 18:37
Odd_Bloke Just acting threatening towards the free software community doesn’t mean they are an actual threat. Sep 05 18:37
schestowitz Odd_Bloke: they bribe against it. Sep 05 18:37
schestowitz They do a lot more. Sep 05 18:37
[H]omer Roy, post the link to “Microsoft’s dirty tricks” to show Odd_Bloke how Microsoft are a “threat”. Sep 05 18:37
schestowitz Need you see examples? Sep 05 18:37
Odd_Bloke OK, that’s acting threatening. Sep 05 18:38
Odd_Bloke We’re a _community_, not a business. Sep 05 18:38
schestowitz There’s no ‘community’. Not in the usual sense.. Sep 05 18:38
schestowitz There’s a sharing of goals and philosophy. Sep 05 18:39
schestowitz There are many ‘communities’ that are social groupings of programmers and such. Sep 05 18:39
Odd_Bloke OK, a confederation of communities then. Sep 05 18:39
[H]omer They coopted Novel, funded SCO against Linux, sabotaged the OLPC and Mandriva, called Linux a “cancer”, made unfounded allegations of “235 patent” infringements, the list goes on. Sep 05 18:39
[H]omer Then their’s the MSBBC iPlayer fiasco Sep 05 18:39
schestowitz I have 4005 posts in BN with many more examples. Sep 05 18:39
schestowitz A lot of their dirty laundry they do via proxies. Sep 05 18:40
[H]omer Shell companies like IP Innovation LLC Sep 05 18:40
Odd_Bloke So those are all irritating, but they aren’t actual threats to the functioning of the confederation of communities. Sep 05 18:40
[H]omer “Irritating”? Sep 05 18:40
Odd_Bloke They aren’t out to destroy free software qua free software, they’re out to destroy free software qua competition, if you will. Sep 05 18:41
[H]omer It’s thuggish and criminal Sep 05 18:41
[H]omer In a fair society they’d be shut down for racketeering Sep 05 18:41
[H]omer Look at the OEM scandal (proved by the DOJ) Sep 05 18:41
Odd_Bloke In a fair society, I suspect they wouldn’t operate this way. Sep 05 18:41
Odd_Bloke Precisely because they would be shut down. Sep 05 18:42
schestowitz Odd_Bloke: what do you do about this? Support Novell/Mcirosoft SUSE? Sep 05 18:42
[H]omer Clandestine Memorandum of Understanding with OEMs to lock-out pre-installed Linux, the sabotage against Apple “knife the baby”, sabotaging Netscape … Sep 05 18:42
schestowitz By refusing to act upon it, you solve nothing and complicate things further. Sep 05 18:43
[H]omer I mean good God these people are gangsters, how can anyone not see that? Sep 05 18:43
Odd_Bloke I’m not refusing to act, I’m refusing to act in an identical manner to Boycott Novell. Sep 05 18:43
Odd_Bloke Which, incidentally, is fairly poorly named if “Microsoft is the *only* threat”. Sep 05 18:43
[H]omer Name another threat then Sep 05 18:44
schestowitz Odd_Bloke: really? Sep 05 18:44
[H]omer <silence> Sep 05 18:44
schestowitz If I don’t criticise Apple in BN (which I do in links), it’s because the scope of the site must be limited. Sep 05 18:44
Odd_Bloke It’s called Boycott _NOVELL_. ¬.¬ Sep 05 18:44
benJIman Well boycottxandros.com goes to the same site. Sep 05 18:45
[H]omer “The friend of my enemy…” Sep 05 18:45
[H]omer Understand yet? Sep 05 18:45
Odd_Bloke Uhm, I understand perfectly. Sep 05 18:45
Odd_Bloke I _disagree_. Sep 05 18:45
[H]omer Why? Sep 05 18:45
Odd_Bloke Because regularly having a tantrum on your blog is not a productive way to bring down Microsoft. Sep 05 18:46
Odd_Bloke It’s counter-productive. Sep 05 18:46
[H]omer How would you deal with Microsoft? Support them or fight them? Sep 05 18:47
[H]omer And how would you do it? Sep 05 18:47
Odd_Bloke You give them something to hold up to people in general, who are indifferent to the matter, and say, “Look, they’re crazy.” Sep 05 18:47
Odd_Bloke Because you’re fucking crazy. Sep 05 18:47
[H]omer Then indifferent should remain indifferent … elsewhere Sep 05 18:47
[H]omer I’m crazy for being outraged by Microsoft’s thuggish behaviour? Why? Sep 05 18:48
Odd_Bloke You do not have the Platonic expression of outrage. Sep 05 18:48
schestowitz Odd_Bloke: if you don’t fight back, you lose. Sep 05 18:48
[H]omer That’s your mistaken inference Sep 05 18:48
Odd_Bloke This isn’t fighting back! Sep 05 18:48
[H]omer Your opinion Sep 05 18:49
Odd_Bloke This is banging your fists on the floor and screaming, while feeling like you’re doing something! Sep 05 18:49
schestowitz Microsoft fight FOSS all the time (it’s disguised behind fronts like BSA and CompTIA). Refuse to talk about it and you shall be devours. Sep 05 18:49
schestowitz *devoured Sep 05 18:49
[H]omer Spreading the truth is not a tantrum Sep 05 18:49
Odd_Bloke That’s true, but irrelevant. Sep 05 18:49
schestowitz Can you counter $300 of Microsoft brainwash money? http://www.forbes.com/reuters/fe… Sep 05 18:50
[H]omer Ultimately there are those who care, those who don’t, and those who oppose dissent. I’ll keep stating my views in the *hope* that it makes a difference. Would you rather I was censored? Sep 05 18:50
schestowitz Do you know how much they bribe politicians? Sep 05 18:50
schestowitz (by bribe I mean “contributions” and “awards”) Sep 05 18:51
[H]omer “Marketing assistance” Sep 05 18:51
[H]omer LOL Sep 05 18:51
schestowitz Bribe Sep 05 18:51
[H]omer Just like Sweden Sep 05 18:51
schestowitz They have many words for it. Sep 05 18:51
[H]omer Nigeria Sep 05 18:51
schestowitz Lobbying too. Sep 05 18:51
[H]omer Congress? Sep 05 18:51
Odd_Bloke [H]omer: I don’t oppose dissent. Sep 05 18:51
schestowitz Like ACT ATL and other bribery houses that Zuck seems to be building for Microsoft. Sep 05 18:52
schestowitz It’s a money funnel that goes all the way up. Sep 05 18:52
Odd_Bloke Blog posts are not dissent. Sep 05 18:52
[H]omer Odd_Bloke, sound like you do – you’re trying to say I should shut up. Sep 05 18:52
schestowitz And again, I won’t stop citing it:  http://lessig.org/blog/2008/… Sep 05 18:52
schestowitz The system is corrupt. Treat it gently with apologism and you’ll become a slave. Sep 05 18:52
[H]omer The world is full of sheeple. Sep 05 18:52
Odd_Bloke But you’re not treating the system harshly. Sep 05 18:53
Odd_Bloke You’re just talking about the system. Sep 05 18:53
Odd_Bloke It’s not _doing_ anything. Sep 05 18:53
schestowitz ? Sep 05 18:53
[H]omer What other power do I have? Sep 05 18:53
[H]omer But the voice of dissent? Sep 05 18:53
schestowitz Can I bribe the cronies? Sep 05 18:53
schestowitz Can I prevent them from receiving brives in  procurement?> Sep 05 18:54
schestowitz Speaking of which, Novell bribes too. Sep 05 18:54
schestowitz http://www.accessmylibrary…. Sep 05 18:55
schestowitz “The new chief of technology at the state Department of Children & Families resigned late Tuesday after agency officials learned he had been faulted by officials at a previous job in Ohio for accepting gifts from a technology company that had won a $1.9 million contract. Sep 05 18:55
schestowitz Sep 05 18:55
schestowitz “John R. Hurd was also criticized in a separate investigation by the Ohio Inspector General’s Office for appearing in several advertisements for the company, Novell, and allowing the company to run endorsements by him on its website.” Sep 05 18:55
[H]omer I could steal money from people with racketeering, then use that to bribe congress into changing the system … just like Microsoft does. But I’m not built that way. I’d rather use the democratic process to speak out. Sep 05 18:55
Odd_Bloke When was the last time you wrote to your congress(wo)man, senator, MP, …? Sep 05 18:55
benJIman Have you written to your local MP/MoC ? Sep 05 18:56
benJIman Heh. Sep 05 18:56
[H]omer Every other week Sep 05 18:56
[H]omer Most recently about iPlayer Sep 05 18:56
Odd_Bloke [H]omer: You’re British? Sep 05 18:56
[H]omer Yes Sep 05 18:56
Odd_Bloke Cool. Sep 05 18:56
[H]omer I used congress as an example (assume American on the Net) Sep 05 18:56
[H]omer I also signed various petitions on the PM’s Website Sep 05 18:57
*schestowitz signs many petitions Sep 05 18:57
[H]omer And spoke out against Donald Trump’s “plans” to destroy an area of SSI in Aberdeenshire Sep 05 18:57
[H]omer I am very much an “activist”, and I *hope* I do make a difference. I am not a sheeple. Sep 05 18:58
[H]omer And yes I’m bloody angry. Sep 05 18:59
[H]omer I have a right. Sep 05 18:59
[H]omer I have the right to Free Speech Sep 05 18:59
[H]omer I’m exercising that right. Sep 05 18:59
schestowitz You’re’ dissenting’. Sep 05 18:59
schestowitz :-) Sep 05 18:59
[H]omer I’ll fight Microsoft to my dying breath. Sep 05 18:59
[H]omer Or their’s … whichever comes first Sep 05 19:00
schestowitz Microsoft is not alone thought. Sep 05 19:00
Odd_Bloke “Microsoft is the *only* threat”. Sep 05 19:00
schestowitz The nproblem is that there’s a leftover of Gateocrats who keep the wealth flowing among the clique. Sep 05 19:00
[H]omer *only* threat to *IT* Sep 05 19:01
schestowitz To FOSS, not IT Sep 05 19:01
[H]omer There are threats in other areas of society Sep 05 19:01
Odd_Bloke OK, I take your point. Sep 05 19:01
schestowitz Apple could rise to be a threat to IT as it is to other things like copyrights monopoly ‘industry’ Sep 05 19:01
schestowitz The main issue is broader. Sep 05 19:01
schestowitz Sharing of knowledge for starters. Sep 05 19:02
[H]omer Actually no … *IT*. Microsoft are even a threat to standards; other companies, and even their own partners (PlaysForSure). Sep 05 19:02
schestowitz RMS does too recognises that sharing is key and education is a route to means. Sep 05 19:02
schestowitz Hogging culture is blamed not only for bribes but also for endless pursuit for power (=wealth) Sep 05 19:02
schestowitz And objestively speaking, the gap between poor and rich widens. Sep 05 19:03
[H]omer I have to go eat. Back in about an hour. Sep 05 19:03
*[H]omer is away: sleep beer sleep beer sleep Sep 05 19:03
schestowitz FOSS was born as a partly political movement in the sense that engineers want their machines  to serve /them/, not other masters Sep 05 19:03
*seller_liar (n=seller_l@201-43-36-206.dsl.telesp.net.br) has joined #boycottnovell Sep 05 19:17
schestowitz Geez. They attack Fry now? http://www.itpro.co.uk/605877/step… (      Stephen Fry celebrates open source, attacks Microsoft and Apple  ) Sep 05 19:22
schestowitz it’s just like those attacks on Stallman after he had criticised Microsoft in the MSBBC) Sep 05 19:22
schestowitz seller_liar: just found this one which you might want to see: http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/hprw/… Sep 05 19:23
schestowitz “Brazil, Sept. 2 /PRNewswire-HISPANIC PR WIRE/ — BuscaPe.com Group ( http://www.buscape.com ), which is owner of the largest Comparison Shopping Network in Latin America…” More media control, of which you can find plenty, but this one is different (service). Nonetheless, there’s money on the table, which can affect editorial bias. Sep 05 19:24
Odd_Bloke schestowitz: How is that an attack on Stephen Fry? Sep 05 19:24
schestowitz Read it. Sep 05 19:24
schestowitz The headline Sep 05 19:25
Odd_Bloke Just did. Sep 05 19:25
schestowitz I wrote about it a week ago (headline massaging): http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/… Sep 05 19:25
Odd_Bloke I should probably watch the video as well. Sep 05 19:25
Odd_Bloke BRB. Sep 05 19:25
Odd_Bloke OK, my connection is too slow to stream it. Sep 05 19:26
schestowitz I notice that Paul Krill is still boosting some Microsoft (there’s discomforting history there): http://www.infoworld.com/article/… Sep 05 19:27
seller_liar schestowitz: thanks roy, i will read Sep 05 19:28
schestowitz More Microsoft investments in broadcasting (=possible bias): Microsoft to be among 13 investors in NHK satellite channel ( http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor… ) Sep 05 19:35
schestowitz FUDMesiter Hauser: “More recently Hauser played a strategic role on Microsoft’s Law and Corporate Affairs, Intellectual Property Leadership team where she worked on Microsoft’s relationship with Novell and its efforts on interoperability.  She was instrumental role in developing Microsoft’s first Interop Executive Customer Council with 45 worldwide CIO’s across commercial and public sector customers, added Scott.” Sep 05 19:38
schestowitz http://blogs.bankingtech.com/blo… Sep 05 19:38
schestowitz More information about the media investment: http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-10032493-75.html ( Microsoft and 12 others invest in Japanese TV ) Sep 05 19:41
seller_liar drm in NHK? Sep 05 19:49
seller_liar Is Nhk public? Sep 05 19:50
schestowitz I’m not sure. I haven’t chekced. Sep 05 19:54
schestowitz The power of manipulation: http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_stor… Sep 05 20:03
schestowitz A stranger has just E-mailed me this: “taking clues from the fsf movement and reading behind the lifes of linus and rms. http://thebookonlife.googlepages.com its just 21 pages.” it’s amazing how much work is being put into writing that’s rarely published. Sep 05 20:08
seller_liar schestowitz: thanks roy Sep 05 20:08
schestowitz Gates/Davis ‘forgets’ Adobe :-S http://news.zdnet.com/2424-9595_22-219799.html  (seems like usual Zeedee fluff) Sep 05 20:09
schestowitz Other notice this too: http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-9… Sep 05 20:10
schestowitz “I don’t get it… Flash is ubiquitous.. it’s on almost every PC out there and has a huge developer base behind it, yet these people are implying Silverlight is THE platform to beat. What does Silverlight have that Flash doesn’t (besides a huge bankroll behind it and some very green developers)?” Sep 05 20:10
schestowitz Even gary Edwards weighed in: http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208… Sep 05 20:11
seller_liar schestowitz: why people do not use java fx Sep 05 20:11
schestowitz It’s not being hyped by shills. Sep 05 20:12
schestowitz Microsoft has known boosters in ZDNET Sep 05 20:12
schestowitz I caught one here: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/… Sep 05 20:12
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/… ‘The author of the email, posted on ZDNet in a Talkback forum on the Microsoft antitrust trial, claimed her name was Michelle Bradley and that she had “retired” from Microsoft last week. “A verbal memo [no email allowed] was passed around the MS campus encouraging MS employee’s to post to ZDNet articles like this one,” the email said.’ Sep 05 20:13
seller_liar schestowitz: lobo have native java Fx Sep 05 20:19
schestowitz Lobo? Sep 05 20:22
seller_liar http://lobobrowser.org/ Sep 05 20:25
schestowitz They should do that at Mozilla too perhaps, just as they do with Ogg. JavaFX is GPLv2-ed Sep 05 20:25
seller_liar yes Sep 05 20:26
schestowitz “Wow, a tough day for Windows. BusinessWeek reports that HP, the world’s biggest PC company, is so troubled by Vista’s ‘tepid reception’ and Apple’s resurgence that it is developing its own operating system. Meanwhile a New York Times columnist writes on his blog that Windows is “already dying a death by a thousand cuts.”” Sep 05 20:27
schestowitz http://blogs.zdnet.com/computers/?p=219 Sep 05 20:28
schestowitz http://www.businessweek.com/techn… Sep 05 20:28
schestowitz “Others in HP’s PC division are exploring the possibility of building an HP operating system for mainstream desktop and notebook computers based on the open-source Linux system, which competes with Windows, say people familiar with the company’s plans.” Sep 05 20:28
seller_liar aix?! Sep 05 20:28
seller_liar no , hp-ux?! Sep 05 20:28
Odd_Bloke seller_liar: “which competes with Windows”? :p Sep 05 20:31
seller_liar Odd_Bloke: I know Sep 05 20:31
seller_liar schestowitz: hp chances are very low Sep 05 20:32
seller_liar schestowitz: strange…. Sep 05 20:33
schestowitz Yes, I know. I wrote about their strong tie with Microsoft this morning. Sep 05 20:33
seller_liar schestowitz: my friend was trying to running virtual box in your computer ,and then Sep 05 20:34
schestowitz The almost-criminal former CEO is now helping McCain (and his interests) Sep 05 20:34
seller_liar schestowitz: virtualbox did not pass in certification tests!!! Sep 05 20:34
schestowitz McCain is surrounded by the likes of Microsoft, which he openly /supports/. Sep 05 20:34
schestowitz Bray on post 3000: “And inside Sun software, the hottest creative energies are going into JavaFX (unfortunately, I just don’t get whole RIA thing) and OpenSolaris’ IPS (unfortunately, I’m a packaging moron) and multi-language NetBeans (they don’t need much help… well, I do report bugs). I’m internally pushing some ideas that I think could be impactful; but it feels like an in-between time.” ( http://www.tbray.org/ongoin Sep 05 20:36
schestowitz g/When/200x/2008/09/05/Three-Thousand-and-One ) Sep 05 20:36
schestowitz http://www.tbray.org/ongo… Sep 05 20:36
schestowitz seller_liar: Sun’s xVM, AKA VirtualBox 2.0, what certification is it? Sun was bragging about standards adherence yesterday, on the same day as the xVM (desktop) announcement   Sep 05 20:37
seller_liar schestowitz: my friend did not give more information for me, but m$ does not permit to install neither vbox 2 and 1.6 Sep 05 20:38
schestowitz There’s another issue I’ll write about later:  http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index… (probably Maritz, which sells out to his former employer, partner of ‘father’ EMC) Sep 05 20:39
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schestowitz http://standardsandfreedom.net/index… “Yo do what they want you yo do. You spread the brainwash.” Sep 05 20:48
schestowitz There are so many people even in the FOSS community that play along with Microsoft’s Viral Advertising campaign, which is unfortunate. Sep 05 20:49
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MinceR benJIman: i don’t post articles because i don’t have time to write them. Sep 05 21:13
MinceR also, i’m not really a writer. Sep 05 21:13
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schestowitz Nice username for a puppet: Path:   border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.gigan ews.com!newsfeeder.ewetel.de!ecngs!feeder 2.ecngs.de!peer1.news.newnet.co.uk!194.159 .246.34.MISMATCH!peer-uk.news.demon. net!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.u k!demon!ellandroad.demon.c o.uk!not-for-mail Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz   Message-ID:   <4498071.XgFttn5xIF@schestowitz.com> Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz   From:   Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz   Newsgroups:   comp.os.linux.advocacy Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz   Subject:   [News] GNU/Linux Fest in Atlanta and Many More Conferences Coming Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz   Date:   Wed, 03 Sep 2008 13:56:02 +0000 Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz   Lines:   158 Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz   NNTP-Posting-Host:   ellandroad.demon.co.uk Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz   Mime-Version:   1.0 Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz   Content-Type:   text/plain; charset=utf-8 Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz   Content-Transfer-Encoding:   8Bit Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz   X-Trace:   news.demon.co.uk 1220450642 22322 (3 Sep 2008 14:04:02 GMT) Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz   X-Complaints-To:   abuse@demon.net Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz   NNTP-Posting-Date:   Wed, 3 Sep 2008 14:04:02 +0000 (UTC) Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz   X-Face:   .dYWu:H1\ 3ib`=T*Zoi9{>C].hHmdJ #z~”:dJ5pFYAC`jJ6 I~pf</F~#Sp(\[J6OgtE BO”[ @'u^%Ia#bVQ hL%Cw#^nU FCIAEjS=M(B6B'& gt;OUrp)Y"ZY}Z\Y ~`g#I,JSw?7"3& amp;Fctfk^)\]8{j[7 )M Nj%-#0a}S+ *8oFlP^l,>&Y^1yhEYGz7>sv*’ OuW}a9Oq}:<Ra*`;’,O G@O=wj0mp’{Q |hbDm&yS-#r m;DM)4S$!IX22Ou)-Y ^lh[pu6VX8Dh0dG &Fv[54aJZeX*L AV]2w9wSR15 Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz   X-Priority:   3 Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz   X-Homepage:   http://schestowitz.com Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz   User-Agent:   KNode/0.10.9 Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz   X-War:   No, thank you Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz   X-OpenPGP:   id=74572E8E; url=http://schestowitz.com/PGP Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz   Bytes:   6851 Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz   Xref:   ellandroad.demon.co.uk comp.os.linux.advocacy:685769 Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz Message was signed by Roy Schestowitz <sch@danielsorogon.com> (Key ID: 0x74572E8E). Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz The signature is valid and the key is ultimately trusted. Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz   Atlanta Linux Fest 2008 Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz ,—-[ Quote ] Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz | On Saturday, September 20th, 2008, the Atlanta Linux Fest will be the place Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz | to learn, discuss, and discover Linux. There will be demos of various Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz | distributions, as well as an install fest for new users to try out Live CDs Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz | and get help with Linux installations. Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz `—- Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz http://www.linuxpr.com/releases/10847.html Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz http://atlantalinuxfest.org/ Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz Upcoming open source & web conferences Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz ,—-[ Quote ] Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz | -Zend confere Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz Blech. Sep 05 23:04
schestowitz Nice username for a puppet: http://www.fsdaily.com/users/boycottboycottnovell.com  (They are gaming FSDaily again) Sep 05 23:05
*MinceR proposes boycottboycottboycottnovell.com Sep 05 23:24
schestowitz 1.. 2.. 3… oh yeah, many negatives, I guess. Either way, they seem to be playing that site again, just like they did before when there was a ‘revolt’ Sep 05 23:26
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