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IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: October 22nd, 2008 - Part 3

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schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/08/15/law...Oct 22 20:35
schestowitzThe Special Forces should bust Microsoft's office and crack down on this act of political and practical corruption.Oct 22 20:36
schestowitzCrime in daylight, but nobody seems to ccareOct 22 20:36
schestowitz"The farmers may have had another reason. Rudy Arredondo, the chief executive of the Latino farmers group, confirmed that his organization became involved in the issue after talking to lobbyists at the Raben Group. The Raben Group received $30,000 this spring to lobby against the deal - from Google's rival, Microsoft, which wanted to buy Yahoo."Oct 22 20:37
schestowitzMicrosoft sues Rochester firm for piracy : http://news.postbulletin.com/newsmanager/temp...Oct 22 20:40
schestowitzUltimate drug: http://www.charlatan.ca/index.php?option=...Oct 22 20:42
schestowitzMicrosoft’s Role In GOOG-YHOO Delay: Outlobbying < http://www.paidcontent.org/entr... >Oct 22 20:44
schestowitz"Meanwhile, Microsoft spent the intervening months lobbying everyone—regulators, other lobbyists, anyone who might be willing to raise a doubt about the anti-competitive possibilities. In the process, they drew some support—or at least, some doubt-raising—from some of those who gave the Redmond company grief over anti-trust issues."Oct 22 20:45
schestowitz"Google both blames Microsoft for working “hard from behind the scenes to generate much of the opposition to this deal” and tries to dismiss it. And Microsoft doesn’t want credit for this one, with a spokesman telling the Times: “There’s an old rule in debate: if you’re not winning on substance, talk about the process.”"Oct 22 20:45
schestowitzMore MS lawsuits: http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/stories... http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/content/busine...Oct 22 20:46
twitterBush rigged the DOJ.  That will be undone soon.Oct 22 20:47
twitterInteresting big lie, " Microsoft has long pushed the idea that its products make up a small but essential part of corporate technology spending and that its software and its markets are diverse and not overly exposed to any one area."Oct 22 20:49
twitterLarge, non essential, and all very niche if essential.Oct 22 20:50
schestowitzWhere is this from?Oct 22 20:50
twitterhttp://uk.reuters.com/article/reute...Oct 22 20:52
twitterthe lower expectations articleOct 22 20:52
schestowitzThey won't concede defeat.Oct 22 20:53
schestowitzI'll dig it up before the weekend to see all the stuff they embellished. They'll do a lot of lying tomrorow.Oct 22 20:53
schestowitzWhere lying = "swapping buckets of loss and win"Oct 22 20:54
twitterIt's all defensive though.Oct 22 20:54
twitterThey don't have any bright spots or growth prospects.Oct 22 20:54
twitterThey will also miss their expectations, again.  Tisk, tisk.Oct 22 20:54
schestowitzJuly's report: Oct 22 20:55
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/07/...Oct 22 20:55
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twitterha ha, Fast was one of those things they bought wasn't it?Oct 22 20:56
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schestowitzOracle surrenders and starts buybacks too now: http://www.reuters.com/article/in...Oct 22 20:57
twitterA couple of trolls threw the Fast acquisition as evidence that M$ was going to outdo Google, real soon now (TM)Oct 22 20:57
schestowitzBad time spendiong at Microsoft: No strategic fit for Microsoft to buy BlackBerry maker RIM < http://www.product-reviews.net/2008/10/18/no-st... >Oct 22 20:57
schestowitzA leaked memo indicated hiring and spendings freeze as well.Oct 22 20:58
schestowitzFAST? That's fraudOct 22 20:58
schestowitzWill get Microsoft to attend the courts for crime now.Oct 22 20:58
twitterYeah, but it looks like they might have burned M$ with it, or did I totally misunderstand the transaction?Oct 22 20:59
schestowitzMicrosoft must have gone insane to do this: http://www.china.org.cn/china/nationa...Oct 22 20:59
twitterI thought Fast made themselves look profitable just long enough to be bought.Oct 22 20:59
twitterYes M$ is insane.Oct 22 20:59
schestowitzIt's ALL OVER the press. It's very bad publicity. It'll also scare people in the press... scare away from Windows.Oct 22 20:59
twitterlookingOct 22 21:00
schestowitzThey show the ugly side of Windows in public.Oct 22 21:00
schestowitzAnd that's not even including the DRM in VistaOct 22 21:00
twitterDude, I told you that was big news.Oct 22 21:00
schestowitzIs this a real screenshot?Oct 22 21:00
schestowitzTher'es also one from Malaysia. Wait.Oct 22 21:00
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schestowitzhttp://www.openmalaysiablog.com/2008/0...Oct 22 21:01
twitterIt not only shows how ugly Windows is, it shows how M$ has no real growth prospects in the rest of the world.Oct 22 21:01
schestowitzSo tactlless. They don't make much money from software in 80% of the world (guessed figure).Oct 22 21:01
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schestowitzMore on DC corruption Oct 22 21:03
schestowitzScore one for Washington as Google gets schooled < http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=10507 >Oct 22 21:03
twitterThe black screen thing is a last ditch effort to squeeze some profits out of XP.Oct 22 21:04
schestowitzPredictable.Oct 22 21:04
schestowitzThey even mastered a EULA that permits them to do this, so I don't think the suit will stand in court.Oct 22 21:05
twitterThey think they have something that people can't refuse, like AIDS drugs of something.Oct 22 21:05
schestowitzI wonder what trolls in c.o.l.a. will say. I tried disabling my killfile for one week, but went back to it after 1 dayOct 22 21:05
schestowitzWell, people's data and business processes are locked inOct 22 21:05
twitterWhat data?Oct 22 21:06
schestowitzEven a staged migration presents them with issue if they have to buy mega-expensive licences (in China,.. rememeber).Oct 22 21:06
schestowitzDocuments and sh*Oct 22 21:06
schestowitzYou can't flip a business to GNU/Linux overnight. You need some labou to be done migratingOct 22 21:06
schestowitz*labourOct 22 21:06
twitterThe sooner you start, the better off you are.Oct 22 21:07
twitterIt's not like your computers turn themselves off while you do it .... black screen, oh noes!Oct 22 21:07
schestowitzI reallty don't like all these reports about Mirosoft exec (former) says he ain't scared of MS: http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/mi...Oct 22 21:07
pombat42labor :)Oct 22 21:07
schestowitzPJ says it's a"manufactured dispute"Oct 22 21:07
schestowitzpombat42: yes, that too.Oct 22 21:08
pombat42You are correct though. I cringe when I see migration studies because most ignore the fact that the real ROI isOct 22 21:08
schestowitzNo wonder Todd Bishop quit. The 'new guy' (replacement): http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/mic...Oct 22 21:08
pombat42longterm and that the migration costs are front loadedOct 22 21:09
schestowitzBishop left on a high note (well, should have retired in 1999 really)Oct 22 21:09
twitter"quit"?Oct 22 21:09
schestowitzpombat42: there's an aritcle from Moody today about it.Oct 22 21:09
pombat42yes I read thatOct 22 21:09
schestowitzSome businesses think short term licence costs (money). Lock-in has exist fencss and costsOct 22 21:09
schestowitzThat's whyt lockin is 'given' for free (gratis)Oct 22 21:10
schestowitzLock-in, like userbase, as intangible value.Oct 22 21:10
pombat42give them the razor and stick them for the bladesOct 22 21:10
schestowitztwitter: yes, he quitOct 22 21:10
schestowitztessier: One of the big MS gurusOct 22 21:10
trmancohahaOct 22 21:10
twitterBetween wine and virtual box, nothing is lost on the desktop.Oct 22 21:10
trmancolovelyOct 22 21:10
trmancohttp://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=k2JJZMhFaG0Oct 22 21:10
trmancoI've just become a fan of this dudeOct 22 21:10
trmancobecame*Oct 22 21:11
schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/18/tod...Oct 22 21:11
schestowitzI had arguments with Chris.Oct 22 21:11
twitterWhen and about what?Oct 22 21:11
trmancowhat kind?Oct 22 21:11
schestowitzWe're in good terms though.. http://boycottnovell.com/2007/12/22/anti...Oct 22 21:12
schestowitzWill Microsoft Buy Research in Motion? Not likely: A deal for the BlackBerry maker would be hostile and pricey. Canadian national pride might get in the way, too < http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content... > BW doesn't allow people to link to them, but hey! It's FAIR USE.Oct 22 21:14
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schestowitzPetoKraus: IDG pulled Phoronix. :-(Oct 22 21:15
PetoKrausyupOct 22 21:15
schestowitzWintel ads coming.Oct 22 21:15
MinceRpulled?Oct 22 21:15
schestowitzLook up article on ATI open source, get DX11 adsOct 22 21:16
schestowitzWell, partnership or acquisition... not too sure yet. I'll need to speak to Michael. He has always called it a potential partnershipOct 22 21:16
schestowitzImagine what ig Groklaw was bought. By whom?Oct 22 21:17
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PetoKrausfuckin' dohOct 22 21:18
PetoKraushmm this is pissing me off, seriouslyOct 22 21:21
schestowitzFunny things is... since I called out that Novell advertising guy in YouTube he has not participated. He's too shy.Oct 22 21:21
schestowitz*thingOct 22 21:21
schestowitzPetoKraus: how so?Oct 22 21:21
schestowitzI brought this up in #phoronicOct 22 21:21
schestowitzI brought this up in #phoronixOct 22 21:21
twitterPulled?  Got link?Oct 22 21:23
PetoKrausschestowitz: ah, just wine troubleOct 22 21:24
schestowitzTry beer 1.0.1Oct 22 21:25
schestowitzSellout for Microsoft: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=e0Qwx2cJF9QOct 22 21:27
schestowitz'FOSS people' trying to help the monopolistOct 22 21:27
schestowitzhttp://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=i9qo1F56zLA http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EJsDjfbp6mIOct 22 21:27
twitterYou were right to call him out for the foolish things he said about the Iowa case.  He does not understand class action lawsuits.Oct 22 21:29
twitterHe's even confused about how M$ sold it's software.Oct 22 21:29
schestowitzINNOVA~1 heading east:  India's Moon shot takes to the skies< http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/22/c... >Oct 22 21:30
twitterThe anti-trust cases were not "Witch hunts"Oct 22 21:30
schestowitzThey just perfume it to themselves.Oct 22 21:30
schestowitzHe makes a living out of MSOct 22 21:30
schestowitzLike that idiot in these videos posted here.Oct 22 21:30
schestowitzSome people sell out society for Black screens of death... for a fast buc.Oct 22 21:31
twitter"The market will ultimately decide what is better."  He does not understand anti-trust law either.Oct 22 21:31
twitterAnti-trust law corrects problems markets can't.Oct 22 21:32
schestowitzThe criminals are taking on aRM with FUD now... http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/..." But an obviously-miffed Intel loves taking potshots at ARM at any opportunity, mainly because ARM has chips in over a billion mobile internet devices and Intel's are in, ooh, half a dozen or so."Oct 22 21:32
schestowitzOops. http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inqu...Oct 22 21:32
schestowitzYEs, free markets deviate into distortion and monopoly. It's the govt's role to correct it.Oct 22 21:33
twitterThe new Dell Hard On comes with an ARM?Oct 22 21:33
twitterThat should worry Intel.Oct 22 21:33
schestowitzBut if the govt is allowed to be corrupted, which it already is because people testify that MS controls the US DOJ and White House, the regulation is lost. The watchers is controlled by that who it's supposed to watch.Oct 22 21:34
twitterIf people can do all of their computing for days at a time on a single battery charge, Intel is toast.Oct 22 21:34
schestowitzIntel should just be avoided.Oct 22 21:34
MinceRnot if it's an Xscale.Oct 22 21:34
MinceRre 233921 < twitter> That should worry Intel.Oct 22 21:34
schestowitzAn HP laptop can do a whole day without chargingOct 22 21:34
twitterI'd like an ARM laptop, as long as I could load Debian on it.Oct 22 21:35
schestowitzSadly, President Bush has allowed himself and the Department of Justice to be manipulated by the RIAA and MPAA. On October 13th, he signed the PRO-IP bill into law, ignoring calls to veto it and pretty clear indications that the bill was promoted using completely fabricated statistics. < http://www.defectivebydesign.org/pro-ip-thanks >Oct 22 21:36
twitterI know they can be a little slow, from running a Zaurus Colie, but that would not matter if it kept on running for days.Oct 22 21:36
twitterBush was a willing participant in DOJ corruption.Oct 22 21:37
twitterClass action lawsuits are not supposed to bring big money to the people in the class.Oct 22 21:37
twitterThe idea is that small claims not individually worth pursuing can be collected into something large.Oct 22 21:38
schestowitzWell, Bush is liable for bigger crimes than that.Oct 22 21:39
schestowitzJust left a comment. Bwahaha :-) http://digg.com/tech_news/Hold_...Oct 22 21:39
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schestowitzThe Microsoft shills will start modding it down shortly, then maybe toss in some slander.Oct 22 21:40
twitterLarge suits threaten big dumb companies and keep companies honestOct 22 21:40
twitterThe war of aggression in Iraq is a big crime.Oct 22 21:40
schestowitz204.5-Million lines of code equals one great Linux distribution < http://blogs.computerworld.com/204_5_million_lines_... >Oct 22 21:41
twitterBut he was able to get away with that crime through media consolidation and other corruption.Oct 22 21:41
schestowitzLinux Creator Linus Torvalds, Others Honored In Silicon Valley < http://www.informationweek.com/news/software... >Oct 22 21:41
schestowitzYes, media perpetuates the concepts of those owning it.Oct 22 21:42
schestowitzWith the control by companies (even the BBC is now 'owned' by some), there's no good way to find news.Oct 22 21:42
schestowitzI just rely on blogs and people's knowledge, not press releases-fed journosOct 22 21:42
trmancohttp://blogs.pcworld.co.nz/pcworl...Oct 22 21:43
schestowitzRMS says you must subsribe to trusted blogs. There's too much propaganda with words like "piracy" in 'the media'Oct 22 21:43
twitterBlogs are better sources of news than "news"  RMS has a great blog.Oct 22 21:43
schestowitzOh, I remember that.Oct 22 21:43
schestowitzIsn't that iamge more than 1 year old?Oct 22 21:43
twitterAs more real scientists and industry people get into sharing their opinions directly, media owners will be less able to lie.Oct 22 21:44
trmancoschestowitz, yesOct 22 21:45
trmancobut its funnyOct 22 21:45
schestowitztwitter: go to youtube.Oct 22 21:45
schestowitzlook for videos from people like Lessig, Chomsky, Knuth...Oct 22 21:46
schestowitzDifferent reality, but nonetheless a real oneOct 22 21:46
twitterHave not see Knuth, but Lessig and Chomsky are great.Oct 22 21:47
schestowitzThey are labeled "controversial", where the word means something like "speaks openly about corruption", AKA "dissident", "extremist", "anarchist" whatever..Oct 22 21:47
twitterthe word means, "not controlled by us"Oct 22 21:47
schestowitzhttp://www.informationweek.com/news/software/linux/s... "..whose operating system became the catalyst for the open source software movement that challenged traditional concepts of intellectual property."Oct 22 21:48
schestowitzWhat system? Oh, the monopolies system... the one where governments give franchises to people who contribute to their campaigns and all.Oct 22 21:48
schestowitzRMS is labeled "controversial" in some media that I see. It's kind of the opposite, ain't it? Depends on whose side you're on. I find the US Republicans rather "controversial"Oct 22 21:49
schestowitzThis SUSE blog is 'marketing' a lot of Mono junk: http://www.susegeek.com/desktop/gnome-do-launcher-t...Oct 22 21:51
pombat42The current Republicans have no clue what the US Joe the Plumber needsOct 22 21:51
schestowitzOilOct 22 21:52
pombat42funny.Oct 22 21:52
pombat42McCain doesn't even know how many houses he owns!Oct 22 21:53
MinceRhe can't count that farOct 22 21:53
pombat42I figured he forgot :) senility!Oct 22 21:53
schestowitzHe has an abacusOct 22 21:54
schestowitzAnd lobbyists.Oct 22 21:54
MinceRbut he doesn't know how to use itOct 22 21:54
pombat42and hands and toes!Oct 22 21:54
schestowitzI'll post this video just before the elections: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RGtk3PMfU8sOct 22 21:54
pombat42he scares me although I do like Palin. she seems fresh and not saddled with Washington politics.Oct 22 21:55
schestowitzHaha.Oct 22 21:56
schestowitzDon't be deceived by looks. That's what they try to achieve.Oct 22 21:56
schestowitzIt's like McCain+pom pons  for office.Oct 22 21:57
pombat42she's cute no doubt...I saw a bumper sticker the other day that said "Alaska:our climate is cold but our Gov is hot!"Oct 22 21:58
pombat42But then we have Obama. He seems empty to meOct 22 21:58
schestowitzAlaska = corruption tooOct 22 21:58
pombat42so what isn't?Oct 22 21:59
schestowitzhttp://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&a...Oct 22 21:59
pombat42Barney Frank: Fanny/Freddy mac are doing fineOct 22 21:59
schestowitz Sen. Ted Stevens' corruption trial goes to jury: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/22/s...Oct 22 21:59
pombat42I'm a Nadar supporter BTWOct 22 21:59
schestowitz Alaskan senator trial nears end : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/a...Oct 22 21:59
pombat42Nader :(Oct 22 21:59
schestowitzThis always reminds me of Novell allegedly bribing someone for the Winter Games to come to Slat Lake City. I can't recall the details.Oct 22 22:00
pombat42There is a fine line between lobbying and whoring.Oct 22 22:00
schestowitzIf times get rough, Freddy and Fanny will need to east Mac... and get food poisoning, the die out.Oct 22 22:01
schestowitz*watOct 22 22:01
schestowitz*watOct 22 22:01
schestowitzI can't type well.Oct 22 22:01
pombat42eat Mac and you WILL get the mein!  (I can't type well either!!!)Oct 22 22:01
schestowitzLobbyist if "legalised corruption"Oct 22 22:01
pombat42yepOct 22 22:01
schestowitzIt's a constraint (or lack thereof) that limits govt from being just another big business... corporate umbrella enslaving people.Oct 22 22:02
schestowitzThink about a situation where the lobbyists themselves inherit the role of those whom they lobbyOct 22 22:02
schestowitzThat would be essentially like electing CEOs of companies and their conies to run a country and maximalise their industry's needs at the expense of votes.Oct 22 22:03
schestowitz* (correction of typos) Lobbying is "legalised corruption"Oct 22 22:03
pombat42The USA is NOT a democracy. It is a oligopoly...God that's awful but what I mean is it is run by big business.Oct 22 22:03
pombat42IOW my vote doesn't count as much as General MotorsOct 22 22:04
schestowitzYou live in the US, right?Oct 22 22:04
pombat42yes I doOct 22 22:04
schestowitzNo, your vote counts like anybody's...Oct 22 22:05
schestowitzBut...Oct 22 22:05
schestowitzThose whom you elect are RUN (vehicled so to speak) by GM.Oct 22 22:05
pombat42well that's kind of what I mean. In an election a vote is a vote but after the election, what voice do I have?Oct 22 22:05
schestowitzVote Obama, get Biden (Biden =RIAA/MPAA)Oct 22 22:05
pombat42That's why I like NaderOct 22 22:06
schestowitzVote McCain, get maximal Microsoft cronyismOct 22 22:06
schestowitzYou lose either wayOct 22 22:06
pombat42For me it's mostly economicsOct 22 22:06
schestowitzI don't know Gonzalez, though.Oct 22 22:06
trmancooh greatOct 22 22:06
schestowitznader had a good piece of Microsoft.Oct 22 22:06
trmancoLinux kernel 2.6.27.3 releasedOct 22 22:06
schestowitzlet me find  it.Oct 22 22:06
schestowitzLocated at the bottom here: http://boycottnovell.com/2007/12/...Oct 22 22:07
pombat42I like the guy because even if I disagree with him, he tells it like it is. No punches heldOct 22 22:07
pombat423rd parties are dead in the water in USA however. Thank the media for thatOct 22 22:07
schestowitzOpera 9.61 for Linux i386 < http://www.opera.com/download/index.dml  >Oct 22 22:07
pombat42Opera rulez!! (I'm Norwegian BTW)Oct 22 22:08
schestowitzI was in Norwegian Society.Oct 22 22:09
schestowitz(because I had many friends there)Oct 22 22:09
pombat42Opera is good enough for IBM to use as the GUI/browser in their P and I series machines.Oct 22 22:11
schestowitzWell, IBM doesn't care about Free sofwtare,Oct 22 22:11
schestowitzI used Opera several times, but then found FFOct 22 22:11
schestowitzI'd possibly change if Hakom and the team decided that exposing source code won't make the sky fallOct 22 22:12
pombat42IBM is to be watched, carefully. They are not as foolish as Microsoft but are just as dangerous.Oct 22 22:13
schestowitzYes, with patents and all.Oct 22 22:15
schestowitzThey ignored me when I asked them to resist patents.Oct 22 22:15
schestowitzHehe. http://molom.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/i...Oct 22 22:17
*trmanco has quit ("I just hit the close button :)")Oct 22 22:22
schestowitz http://www.pcworld.com/article/152...: Tata Financial Results Hit by Economic SlowdownOct 22 22:22
schestowitz http://www.pcworld.com/article/1... "TCS announced earlier this month that it had reached an agreement to acquire Citigroup's interest in Citigroup Global Services, its BPO (business process outsourcing) arm in India, for about $505 million in cash. As part of the deal TCS through Citigroup Global Services will provide $2.5 billion worth of services to Citigroup and its affiliates over the next nine and a half Oct 22 22:23
schestowitzyears."Oct 22 22:23
schestowitzhttp://www.pcworld.com/article/15... "Use Gmail, Go to Jail? [...] And Google did initially fight the request until ordered by the court. But once the legal hammer came down, Google rolled over -- just as it has in similar cases in Israel and India."Oct 22 22:24
pombat42I read someplace that IBM has a patent that involves the cursor wrapping to the next line after 80 columns of textOct 22 22:24
pombat42If true that's insaneOct 22 22:25
schestowitzMaybe an old patentOct 22 22:25
schestowitzIBM is a sleeping monster.Oct 22 22:25
pombat42could beOct 22 22:25
schestowitzhttp://blog.linuxtoday.com/blog/... "So it all comes back to the same old story-- don't trust the suits because their business models are based on exploitation, and even when they profit handsomely from Linux it's shameful and not mentioned in polite company."Oct 22 22:25
pombat42IBM sits, watches and then reacts. Microsoft reacts off the cuff. Different methods IMHOOct 22 22:26
schestowitzMicrosoft's 'puppets'  (accomplices) in India see profits fall: http://www.pcworld.com/article/152603/.html?tk=rss_newsOct 22 22:26
schestowitzIBM also fakes "Open"Oct 22 22:27
schestowitzFSF warns about them all.. Sun too.Oct 22 22:27
schestowitzFrom http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article... :Oct 22 22:27
schestowitz"The trouble with Microsoft, according to Brown, is that it is a company just like any other company, and "companies don't have any intrinsic values. The only mission statement you need to be aware of so far as a corporation is concerned is the one that says, 'We're here to make money.'" With this outlook, Brown does not trust Microsoft -- but neither does he particularly trust other companies, whether they are proprietary like AppOct 22 22:28
schestowitzle or have business models that include open source, such as Google or Red Hat."Oct 22 22:28
schestowitzIt annoys me that PJ (in GL) kind of cheers for Apple these days. Against those lawsuits... along with these financial results... I think she uses/d a MacOct 22 22:29
pombat42Apple is a company that is right out in the open. Either you agree or disagree with them. I like themOct 22 22:29
schestowitzMainly/only she uses GNU/Linux (Mandriva before her last computer broke down), but I never asked about the Apple thing in the mail headers.Oct 22 22:29
pombat42companies support their stock holders. nothing more nothing lessOct 22 22:30
schestowitzhttp://www.webpronews.com/topnews/200... "However, in statements from both Google and Yahoo, the companies remained confident, and that any delay in plans is voluntary while they work things out with the DOJ, and not because of any injunction."Oct 22 22:31
schestowitzpombat42: there should be laws for ethics... now there's just degradation of these... police state and all...Oct 22 22:31
pombat42I feel their should be accountability, legally. IOW if say AID execs ran the company into the ground knowingly they should be punishedOct 22 22:34
pombat42AIGOct 22 22:34
schestowitzThey get fined at best.Oct 22 22:35
schestowitzhttp://www.cultivated.ca/wp-content/gallery...Oct 22 22:35
schestowitzThem Sugar Daddy comes with some money and bails them out. Steve Jobs too BTW.Oct 22 22:35
pombat42I know. And walk away with millionsOct 22 22:35
schestowitzYou mentioned Apple, well... they too did some funny financial stuff and rescued Jobs from prosecution as I understand it.Oct 22 22:36
schestowitzTech layoffs: The scorecard (updated) : http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10069195-92.h...Oct 22 22:36
pombat42they all do. I happen to like their productsOct 22 22:36
schestowitzSanDisk layoffs appear to be in the works : http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_...Oct 22 22:36
schestowitzIf enough of these companies collapse, there will be a need to prevent more banking corruptions like the one we're suffering from right now.Oct 22 22:37
pombat42Sandisk makes nice stuffOct 22 22:37
pombat42it all boils down to greedOct 22 22:37
schestowitzYes, human nature.Oct 22 22:37
pombat42yepOct 22 22:37
schestowitzIt needs to be regulatedOct 22 22:37
schestowitzThe system lacks teethOct 22 22:38
schestowitzAnd one a leader gains a chair, the promises are forgottenOct 22 22:38
schestowitzObama tooOct 22 22:38
schestowitzhttp://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7nJzz0ivxQOct 22 22:38
pombat42but then we are right back to govt, the riaa, mpa etc..what's the solution? I don't knowOct 22 22:38
pombat42Obama is a phonyOct 22 22:38
schestowitzLet the dinosaurs fallOct 22 22:38
schestowitzThey are killing themselves by spawning more and more eggs (acquisitions) they can't' contain. They also piss of all the other... errr... animals, who then start Free Culture and Creative Commons.Oct 22 22:39
schestowitz{Obama will Save Your Planet}^TMOct 22 22:39
schestowitzWow.... like an angel... http://www.barackobama.com/Oct 22 22:40
schestowitzStill, better than McCain.Oct 22 22:40
schestowitzhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_BidenOct 22 22:41
schestowitzLook how heavily it's edited: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.ph...Oct 22 22:41
pombat42they all suck IMHOOct 22 22:47
schestowitzhttp://www.stallman.org/ : " Support the Green Party; Nader for President "Oct 22 22:49
schestowitzWow. I didn't realise he's for Nader.Oct 22 22:49
schestowitzI love the flag he puts on the left: " America Means Civil Liberties, Patriotism Means Protecting Them."Oct 22 22:51
schestowitz"Don't Buy Harry Potter Books"Oct 22 22:51
schestowitz*LOL* Well, I never saw this front page... " People often ask how I manage to continue devoting myself to progressive activism (such as the free software movement) for years without burning out. The best way I can answer is by recommending a book,  The Lifelong Activist by Hillary Rettig."Oct 22 22:52
pombat42No candidate is perfect. none. what each voter has to determine is what is most important to themOct 22 22:58
schestowitzI don't agree that's the point to stress.Oct 22 22:59
pombat42McCaine wants to give the rich the tax breaks and hope it trickles down to the masses, ala Regan.Oct 22 22:59
schestowitzThe candidacy is not the issue.Oct 22 22:59
schestowitzIt's the structure and operation of the system.Oct 22 22:59
pombat42Obama wants to steal from the rich to help the poorOct 22 22:59
pombat42Either way, the middle class more or less loses, albeit less under ObamaOct 22 23:00
schestowitzIt's ripe for abuse. Unless this is stopped, there will be a third Great Depression or whatever.Oct 22 23:00
schestowitzI think we're just at the _very down_ of a second one.Oct 22 23:00
schestowitz*dawnOct 22 23:00
schestowitzObama wants... haha.Oct 22 23:00
schestowitzWell, he says something...Oct 22 23:00
pombat42The system is not going anywhere. Too much $$$ and too many ignorant masses that are high on sports, Hollywood etcOct 22 23:01
schestowitzIs there a middle class *left* in the US?Oct 22 23:01
schestowitzleft as in remaining, not DemsOct 22 23:01
pombat42getting smaller by the day.. mostl;y rich and poorOct 22 23:01
schestowitzYes, you call it that, I call it "sports & celebs"Oct 22 23:01
pombat42same thing. worshipping garbage is what it isOct 22 23:02
schestowitzIt keeps people distracted and not aware of the abuse of the system, for which they are blindly grateful... until a DepressionOct 22 23:02
schestowitzCredit, credit, creitt.. what's *NOT* to love??Oct 22 23:02
pombat42IA very smart person once told me "sports etc" is the heroin of the middle classOct 22 23:03
pombat42IOW get them hooked and they could care less who is running the showOct 22 23:03
pombat42It has workedOct 22 23:03
schestowitzWell, it's peer effect also.Oct 22 23:04
pombat42yep. the lemming effect.Oct 22 23:04
schestowitzAnother fixation is a life structural one.Oct 22 23:04
pombat42?Oct 22 23:04
schestowitzPeople are being channeled into a certain expectancy where television helps the formation of these expectation.Oct 22 23:04
pombat42agreedOct 22 23:05
schestowitzA girl watching Snow White expects to do the dishes for the 'men' and men expect to follow the usual route of college ->job->car->marriage->house->children->debt->whatever.Oct 22 23:05
schestowitzIt's good for the corporations.Oct 22 23:05
pombat42B4 I retired I used to ride the train 100 miles into the city and the first thing I noticed was how they would turn the morning paper over to the sports sectionOct 22 23:06
pombat42then they would gabby about who did what etc.Oct 22 23:06
pombat42my reaction was who cares? the game is overOct 22 23:06
schestowitzYesOct 22 23:06
pombat42look to the futureOct 22 23:06
schestowitzMy family watches a lot of football, but I ask them why they don't spend the same time actually /playing/Oct 22 23:06
schestowitzI used to watch a lot of sports. Now I just play them.Oct 22 23:07
pombat42i never thought of that. good point!Oct 22 23:07
pombat42i play tennisOct 22 23:07
schestowitzPenalty! No! Damn referee! Oh no, they scored. Red card!! Damn. My whole day is ruins.................... and then reality strikes.... the game had /NOTHING/ to do with your life. it's an alternate reality.Oct 22 23:08
schestowitzSame here (tennis)Oct 22 23:08
pombat42So you were on the same train as I was !!  :)Oct 22 23:08
schestowitzNokia's open source scam vs Linux: http://www.pcworld.com/article/1...Oct 22 23:09
schestowitzThey couldn't tame Linux with patents and DRM, so they try to outlinux Linux.Oct 22 23:09
pombat42Had  Nokia phone that dies, Verizon nor Nokia would helpe me.. Never bought another one.Oct 22 23:09
schestowitzThey will reportedly give up eventually and join Android or something. They also have Qt and MaemoOct 22 23:09
pombat42hopefully they get it rightOct 22 23:10
schestowitzI don't know.Oct 22 23:10
schestowitzI like the brand because it's FinnishOct 22 23:10
schestowitzThey are pressured by HollywoodOct 22 23:10
schestowitzThe guys in the wild west (Hollywood) want DRM on everything.Oct 22 23:10
schestowitzI'll post lots of Microsoft stuff tomorrow morning just before the appalling report.Oct 22 23:11
schestowitzIt should be fun. Then, on Friday/Sat I'll show how badly they did. By this stage, however, (unlike July) many people are already aware of this, so it's not much of a shocka realy.Oct 22 23:12
*moparx has quit (Remote closed the connection)Oct 22 23:13
*moparx (n=moparx@pdpc/supporter/base/moparx) has joined #boycottnovellOct 22 23:13
pombat42DRM is keyed to a lack of talent in HollywoodOct 22 23:19
schestowitzPrice-fixing morelike.Oct 22 23:19
pombat42That tooOct 22 23:20
schestowitzRace to the bottom.Oct 22 23:20
pombat42Carole King Tapestry..10 hits. Fleetwood Mac Rumours same thing. Today? One hit if you are luckyOct 22 23:20
pombat42Boston. Chicago.Saturday Night Fever. Grease. etcOct 22 23:20
MinceRthat article failsOct 22 23:20
schestowitzMy brother in law works at Intel and I told him that China sells PCs for $98 nowOct 22 23:20
MinceR"Can you imagine Apple's iPhone running a cumbersome OS with little innovation such as gesture support?" -- yes, and it looks just like the iphone!Oct 22 23:21
schestowitzThe era of the consumer/producer or mill/farmers is ending.Oct 22 23:21
pombat42iPhone is a great product. Consumers love itOct 22 23:21
pombat42the os doesn't matter the UI doesOct 22 23:22
schestowitzSame with desktops, but..Oct 22 23:22
schestowitzOn desktop it also matters what peripheral support and applications one gets.Oct 22 23:22
pombat42exactly!Oct 22 23:23
MinceRthe iphone is a crap productOct 22 23:24
schestowitziPhone envy to fuel open-source development? : http://news.cnet.com/8301-13846_...Oct 22 23:24
MinceRit's a pda/phone hardware dumbed down beyond recognition by the crap softwareOct 22 23:24
schestowitzhttp://news.cnet.com/8301-1350... : Oct 22 23:24
MinceR(if we ignore the fact that it has no keyboard)Oct 22 23:24
schestowitzApple + ActiveSync is eating email on my iPhone: iCrap?Oct 22 23:25
schestowitz"I'm a huge Apple fan. Today, however, I couldn't be more disappointed. I keep seeing pretty, shiny things...and then finding out they're iCrap underneath."Oct 22 23:25
MinceR:)Oct 22 23:25
schestowitzpombat42: the Android phones have a keyboardOct 22 23:25
schestowitzI've had a real-sized keyboard for my Palm PDA since 2003Oct 22 23:25
schestowitzOr 2002Oct 22 23:25
MinceRpda/phones years before crApple even considered trying their luck with phones had keyboardsOct 22 23:26
MinceReven some phones didOct 22 23:26
schestowitzIt's great for times when I travel and take lots of notes. With iPhone it's like typing my mind with chopsticks.Oct 22 23:26
schestowitzThat said, the iphone has an impressive design and nice graphcis... like the desktops.Oct 22 23:26
schestowitzThey carefully create one unified experience rather than customisable diversity... which to hackers (playful cleverness.. Ha!) is limiting and frustrating.Oct 22 23:27
schestowitzThere's not much chance for tinkering and for experimentation with many applciation one need to shop for binaries online, whereas some of my Palm OS apps are GPL.Oct 22 23:28
MinceRit's limiting and frustrating to anyone who doesn't find operating a light switch challenging.Oct 22 23:28
schestowitzThe GPL was snubbed by the iPhone/Apple policy.Oct 22 23:28
schestowitzIt's tiring to see like 10 headlines about Symbian pretending to have gone open sauce [sic]: http://www.redorbit.com/news/technology/159... (+DRM, +software patents in the UK)Oct 22 23:31
schestowitzWave-riding: http://www.prweb.com/releases/funny-...Oct 22 23:32
schestowitzI like this idea: http://www.publishersweekly.com/a... "Under the Flat World model, the company will publish open source textbooks that students can download for free; it hopes to make its money by selling various options to the online text, ranging from print-on-demand print versions to audio downloads. No advertising is accepted."Oct 22 23:35
schestowitzKnowledge is free. Services around it are not.Oct 22 23:35
MinceRgnOct 22 23:35
schestowitzhttp://www.intomobile.com/2008/10/21/apple-iphone-nda-t... ( Apple iPhone NDA termination spurs open-source iPhone development )Oct 22 23:36
pombat42Honestly I appreciate what you guys stand for but I am not quite as militant toward the cause.Oct 22 23:39
pombat42I prefer to look at what I can use and what I can discard and take it from there.Oct 22 23:39
schestowitzYes, I'm not too worried about Apple.Oct 22 23:41
schestowitz"militant" is a strong word. Some people use words like "war", which are equally disturbing.Oct 22 23:42
MinceRi'm worried about appleOct 22 23:42
MinceRthey're the little microsoftOct 22 23:42
schestowitzA bit like labeling an oppressed looking for human rights a "terrorist" or aggressorOct 22 23:42
MinceRand if the big one falls, the clueless masses might move to them and we get to start all over.Oct 22 23:42
MinceRexcept with more lock-in this time aroundOct 22 23:43
schestowitzIBM or Google are also an issue, but Google doesn't destroy businesses for growth yet... well, not aggressively.Oct 22 23:43
schestowitzWhen you buy from such companies, you give a nod to whatever practice they preach, so they give more of it. The pocket speaks loudest and tells companies to rethink behaviour, I think.Oct 22 23:44
MinceRi'm worried about google tooOct 22 23:45
MinceRi'm not worried about ibm, they're far too inept at selling their stuff, unfortunatelyOct 22 23:45
schestowitzSasS in generalOct 22 23:46
schestowitzThey take away your apps to /their/ 'PC'Oct 22 23:46
MinceRthey've let m$ rise and kill their os/2 alreadyOct 22 23:46
schestowitzThey can charge anything for access, change price, terms, layout, password, leak your info, ad ads.Oct 22 23:46
pombat42People have always had choice,. why do they seem to be bypassing Linux?Oct 22 23:46
MinceRpeople don't always _know_ they have a choiceOct 22 23:47
pombat42sure hey do. At least in USA..Oct 22 23:47
pombat42theyOct 22 23:47
MinceRso do you think the average computer user even knows what an operating system is?Oct 22 23:48
MinceRi know my father didn'tOct 22 23:48
schestowitzpombat42: true, they need not to understand DRM.Oct 22 23:49
schestowitzPeople who I speak to know nothing about it. They are just users, i.e. used people.Oct 22 23:50
schestowitzIf you have to by a track twice (once for each device), they'll take this attempt to elevate market pricing and not ask questions as to /why/Oct 22 23:50
pombat42Nobody likes DRM. However, what is happening at least in the USA is that people are pissed at so called *artists* making millions off of kids etcOct 22 23:52
pombat42How much of this stuff is actually musical?Oct 22 23:52
schestowitzCellphone ringtones?Oct 22 23:52
pombat42ringrtones are like sports for the middle class. drugs...Oct 22 23:53
*PetoKraus has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))Oct 22 23:54
schestowitzpombat42: no, that's the cellphones.Oct 22 23:55
schestowitzEven kids have them these days... my 12-year-old sister too.. with high-res camera and all...Oct 22 23:55
pombat42Mybe i am simplistic but i feel if you buy it you own itOct 22 23:57
schestowitzWhat if it stops functioning (kill switch or black screen of death)? You merely hire access to it.Oct 22 23:58
schestowitzThe permission to posses a licence to use it. Without services (carrier, software), it's rendered a brick.Oct 22 23:59

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