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02.20.09

IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: February 19th, 2009

Posted in IRC Logs at 6:34 am by Dr. Roy Schestowitz

GNOME Gedit

Enter the IRC channel now

schestowitz The Bank of New Zealand deploys Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 < http://www.ostoday.org/os-news-1/000… > Feb 19 00:00
schestowitz Weird one for someone like Jeremiah Gray:  Linux Haters Make a Few Valid Points < http://www.technewsworld.com/story/Linux-… > Feb 19 00:04
schestowitz What tha fork?? Linux Foundation peddles Mono?? http://ldn.linuxfoundation.org/article/… Feb 19 00:11
schestowitz Benchmark Your Computer with Debian 5 Lenny < http://beginlinux.wordpress.com/200… > Feb 19 00:11
twitter Linux Haters is a waste of time for anyone to read. Feb 19 00:12
schestowitz Yes Feb 19 00:12
schestowitz Don’t appreciate blogs whose feedback is called “flames” Feb 19 00:12
schestowitz It means they provoke and troll for reaction. That’s not news. Feb 19 00:12
schestowitz SJVN has been very kind to us recently… also to Debian.. http://blogs.computerworld.com/debian… Feb 19 00:13
twitter It’s not constructive criticism.  Yes, troll. Feb 19 00:13
twitter cool for Debian. Feb 19 00:13
benJIman Of course boy.com is highly constructive. Feb 19 00:14
schestowitz benJIman: very funny. Feb 19 00:14
schestowitz * [benJIman] (n=benji@benjiweber.co.uk): Benjamin Weber Feb 19 00:15
schestowitz * [benJIman] #boycottnovell Feb 19 00:15
schestowitz You quit OpenSUSE? Feb 19 00:15
benJIman What makes you think that? Feb 19 00:15
schestowitz You’re usually at ‘home’ Feb 19 00:16
benJIman home? Feb 19 00:16
schestowitz Now you stalk just a channel you antagonise. Feb 19 00:16
benJIman No, freenode just doesn’t show the channels that you’re not in. Feb 19 00:16
schestowitz Not true. Feb 19 00:19
schestowitz Unless there’s an option you enabled Feb 19 00:20
benJIman Join #suse if you don’t believe me. Feb 19 00:20
twitter Boycott Novell is constructive.  It advocates freedom and shines a light on corruption.  That takes research and effort, the result is valuable. Feb 19 00:21
schestowitz benJIman: I take you word for it, thanks. Feb 19 00:25
twitter Gray’s article is more about how Linux Hater “misses the point” and may not be honest than it is about a few “valid” technical points. Feb 19 00:26
schestowitz I’m still mystified as to your interests for hanging out here. Feb 19 00:26
twitter Still, it’s better to have not mentioned Linux Hater at all.  The site should be a dark little corner only W.E. and true M$ believers read.  Even they would get bored. Feb 19 00:27
twitter Has benJiman ever provided a useful fact? Feb 19 00:27
schestowitz by Scott McNealy: http://www.livemint.com/2009/02/17231746/India8… Feb 19 00:27
schestowitz twitter: mostly advocacy of Microsoft/Novell tech Feb 19 00:28
twitter Sure, I remember all or that.  I just wondered if he every said anything useful. Feb 19 00:28
benJIman I have mentioned several corrections to factually incorrect articles. Of course you might not like your conspiracy theories being spoilt by facts. Feb 19 00:28
schestowitz He is here to ‘had balance’ in the sense that he only ever weighs in to contradict Feb 19 00:29
twitter name calling is not useful, BenJiman. Feb 19 00:29
schestowitz That’s like me joining a #britneyspears channel or something to vilify her fans on occasions Feb 19 00:29
schestowitz benJIman: correct information in your platfform if possible Feb 19 00:30
twitter Or like advocating Novell and M$ in a Boycott Novell blog? Feb 19 00:30
schestowitz I don’t intrude Novell sites Feb 19 00:30
twitter Everyone loves facts benJiman. Feb 19 00:31
twitter can you remember one that actually “spoilt” a working theory of corruption? Feb 19 00:32
twitter You know, a basic thesis kind of spoil.  Like a “fact” that would prove Mono is not some kind of M$ Patent encumbered trap, when M$ and Novell executives have all been extensively quoted such things. Feb 19 00:33
twitter http://slashdot.org/~twitter/journal/219107 Feb 19 00:34
twitter http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/ind… Feb 19 00:35
schestowitz Why does Susan link to “Microsoft: “Waaah! Linux stole our IP” (and 1337 DVD)” < http://blogs.computerworld.com/microsoft_w… >. Old stuff.. Feb 19 00:35
schestowitz Facts (talking points): Feb 19 00:35
schestowitz *If you don’t support the invasion, you don’t support the troops Feb 19 00:35
schestowitz *There are two parties in the elections, so there is democracy. Cherish it. Feb 19 00:36
twitter generally, the “facts” detractors here come up with are petty technical details that don’t make much of a difference.  That and insults. Feb 19 00:36
twitter Don’t know why he linked to it, let me see if I’ve got it in my patent extortion list.  Groklaw had all sorts of great quotes that I’ll have to check too. Feb 19 00:39
twitter Hmm, both of those articles are from 2006. Feb 19 00:39
twitter Did someone spam them out? Feb 19 00:40
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schestowitz Edward Said, “The Myth of the Clash of Civilizations” 1 < http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo… > Feb 19 02:57
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schestowitz Good video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zORv8wwiadQ&NR=1 Feb 19 03:51
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MinceR geekings Feb 19 09:17
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oiaohm http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/02/mi…  << Bait and switch any one. Feb 19 10:44
schestowitz Yes, seen that. Feb 19 10:44
oiaohm Question is how many other programs is Microsoft planing to do that with. Feb 19 10:45
schestowitz Already done before Feb 19 10:46
schestowitz They are killing services massively. Feb 19 10:46
schestowitz BN has many examples. Feb 19 10:46
oiaohm Is it me or is MS panicing. Feb 19 10:46
schestowitz It has been for a while Feb 19 11:07
schestowitz I’m doing a related post ATM Feb 19 11:07
schestowitz Seen Cringely article calling for Microsoft to sack half the staff? Feb 19 11:07
oiaohm If MS does that they are dead in the water. Feb 19 11:08
oiaohm Developers are the life blood of software development. Feb 19 11:09
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schestowitz Yes, I know. Feb 19 11:11
schestowitz But Microsoft bleeds too much money in most divisions Feb 19 11:11
schestowitz Google has a good product: search+ads Feb 19 11:12
schestowitz Microsoft has Office Feb 19 11:12
oiaohm Redirecting staff. Feb 19 11:12
schestowitz It forces WIndows upon OEMs Feb 19 11:12
oiaohm Not cutting them. Feb 19 11:12
schestowitz oiaohm: maybe Feb 19 11:12
oiaohm Problem is cut staff how long before Linux and others will just run MS down. Feb 19 11:12
oiaohm Its either redirect staff or open source bits. Feb 19 11:13
oiaohm Ie open source bits they can cut staff. Feb 19 11:13
oiaohm Now Ms open sourcing bits? Feb 19 11:13
schestowitz Hehe. Feb 19 11:18
schestowitz Who would help them code? Feb 19 11:18
schestowitz Look at Symbian. Feb 19 11:18
schestowitz Just making it open won’t bring in volunteers to serial thugs. Feb 19 11:18
oiaohm More taking existing open source bits Feb 19 11:22
oiaohm And firing staff that made the closed source bits. Feb 19 11:23
oiaohm If I was MS web engine developers I would be paniking right now.  Ie MS looking at webkit. Feb 19 11:23
oiaohm It could save them a lot of money. Feb 19 11:23
schestowitz They refuted the WebKit reports. Feb 19 11:34
oiaohm they may have. Feb 19 11:35
oiaohm Be truthful how much money do they make out the web browser. Feb 19 11:35
oiaohm There are a lot of points in ms where they can make cuts if the put replacements in. Feb 19 11:36
schestowitz Investors count too. Feb 19 11:43
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schestowitz Hey, ShadyCat Feb 19 11:58
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schestowitz Novell: “Compared with our competitors, I don’t think it’s a really important matter or a big number.” Feb 19 12:14
schestowitz ZDeeNET: “Surely it’s an important matter to the staff who were laid off?” Feb 19 12:14
schestowitz Novell: “Yes, but again, it’s a business, and I’m not close to those decisions. In the UK we have increased the headcount — we’ve increased the sales staff.” Feb 19 12:15
schestowitz Gee, this guy is tactless. Feb 19 12:15
schestowitz Yeah…we’ve fired people… but ” it’s a really important matter or a big number.” Feb 19 12:15
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schestowitz Tom Espiner : “It’s good you are employing more sales staff, but don’t they need a product to sell? Could Novell ridding itself of engineering staff hobble it in the future?” Feb 19 12:15
oiaohm That is the kind of company Novell has always been. Feb 19 12:15
oiaohm Now can you see why I say MS and Novell kinda deserve each other. Feb 19 12:16
schestowitz Yeah, I know. Feb 19 12:16
oiaohm They both screw people. Feb 19 12:16
schestowitz See my post about this interview (published minutes ago) Feb 19 12:16
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oiaohm Novell pack of weasels from dilbert Feb 19 12:18
oiaohm If they can justify something is bad. Feb 19 12:18
schestowitz Don’t worry, they’ll get their asses whooped next week Feb 19 12:18
schestowitz Through the big sufferers are Novell employees who already hate the company Feb 19 12:19
oiaohm Palms new web OS.  Is linux. Feb 19 12:19
schestowitz http://www.pcworld.com/article/159795/… Ahhh! I’m tired of hearing about “cloud”… like that federal goon who’s attacking Google for ‘cloud’ now……. Feb 19 12:20
oiaohm This could get really wrong by the end of 2009. Feb 19 12:20
schestowitz oiaohm: maybe earlier Feb 19 12:20
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2008/09/0… Feb 19 12:20
schestowitz In a survey done by CRN (IIRC, maybe eweek), it was found that Novell is believed to be MOST likely not to survive this year. Feb 19 12:21
schestowitz This morning Shane wrote: “And, please, let us recall what Symbolset had pointed out- that Novell had problems with their SEC filings, which caused them to potentially have to pay back cash that wouldn’t have been due till 2024 otherwise.  Lots of cash, apparently.” Feb 19 12:21
schestowitz “Funny thing, they seem to have filed that 8-K asking for an extension until the close of business on the day that the MS deal was to be announced.  Coincidental?” Feb 19 12:22
schestowitz I explored this a lot more closely later on. Feb 19 12:22
schestowitz I really ought to organise this in the Wiki. Feb 19 12:22
oiaohm Yep Feb 19 12:22
oiaohm You are now finding the facts. Feb 19 12:22
oiaohm Novell is dead man walking. Feb 19 12:23
oiaohm What move will Novell do when they have nothing left to lose. Feb 19 12:23
oiaohm What i quite a few years off. Feb 19 12:23
oiaohm Not a company I would have done a patent deal with. Feb 19 12:23
schestowitz It occured to me that hackers like FOSS people are daemonised when the stupid press uses the word “hacker” in reference to criminals (crackers): http://www.pcworld.com/article/159770/hack… Feb 19 12:24
oiaohm Who started that. Feb 19 12:24
schestowitz Orwell warned about depletion of vocabulary by making words mean exactly the opposite of what they used to mean Feb 19 12:24
oiaohm I would love to know. Feb 19 12:24
schestowitz Like Libertarian. Feb 19 12:25
schestowitz If we have no words to express ourselves without opposite connotation, then ideas can no longer be expressed that are disenting. Feb 19 12:25
schestowitz *dissenting. Feb 19 12:25
oiaohm Yep words change means why most people cannot read bible and understand what it says. Feb 19 12:26
oiaohm Like hell is garbage dump. Feb 19 12:26
oiaohm World is only as far as you can see … Feb 19 12:26
schestowitz I don’t know how the press can be countered for the propaganda Feb 19 12:26
schestowitz Look at “pirate” Feb 19 12:26
oiaohm And it goes on with words in the bible that have changed meaning over times. Feb 19 12:26
schestowitz When someone labels a sharer a “pirate”, then you think of people with guns and swords Feb 19 12:26
oiaohm Pirate is something software thiefs they formed them selfs. Feb 19 12:27
schestowitz Software thiefs too is not correct Feb 19 12:27
schestowitz Theft is when you take away Feb 19 12:27
oiaohm As in the old blieff of pirates freeing goods and giving to the oppressed. Feb 19 12:27
schestowitz Not counterfeiting. Feb 19 12:27
schestowitz Not illegal copies. Feb 19 12:27
schestowitz You don’t ‘steal’ books when you borrow them Feb 19 12:27
schestowitz No, Robin Hood ~= Pirate Feb 19 12:28
oiaohm first software thiefs I am refering to stole disks. Feb 19 12:28
oiaohm Then over time things changed. Feb 19 12:28
schestowitz That’s what “intellectual property ” is about Feb 19 12:28
schestowitz Make knowledge and sentences be PROPERTY Feb 19 12:28
schestowitz Because it makes them look physical. Feb 19 12:29
schestowitz IBM should divorce Novell now…. http://www.sutor.com/newsite/blog-… Feb 19 12:36
oiaohm Why. Feb 19 12:36
oiaohm Novell is a MS money vampire. Feb 19 12:36
schestowitz Canadian Linux firm to supply Brazilian schools with PC-sharing software < http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?c… > Feb 19 12:37
schestowitz oiaohm: Novell can harm IBM Feb 19 12:37
oiaohm Really. Feb 19 12:37
schestowitz IBM loves SUSE and uses it to keep cost of RHEL down, BUT.. Feb 19 12:37
schestowitz Novell legitimises patents of IBM’s competitor Feb 19 12:37
oiaohm IBM has the patents that can Nuke Novell of face of earth. Feb 19 12:37
oiaohm Same with MS. Feb 19 12:37
schestowitz Red Hat got what it wanted without the pats Feb 19 12:38
oiaohm MS and IBM already have patent protecitn agreements. Feb 19 12:38
oiaohm Going back to the OS/2 days. Feb 19 12:38
oiaohm IBM cannot be harmed by the threat of Novell. Feb 19 12:38
oiaohm Attacking Redhat always brings in IBM. Feb 19 12:39
schestowitz IBM depends on development by community Feb 19 12:39
schestowitz Novell harms that Feb 19 12:39
oiaohm Part of the reason I think MS fears moving. Feb 19 12:39
schestowitz Bob Sutor does not like Mono, either Feb 19 12:39
schestowitz Novell is gravitating towards MS Feb 19 12:39
oiaohm At moment attacking Novell is pointless. Feb 19 12:39
schestowitz How long before z-series runs MS-branded ‘Linux; Feb 19 12:39
oiaohm Anything leaching money off MS bottom line is a good thing to weaken them at moment. Feb 19 12:39
schestowitz It also weakens FOSS, even more Feb 19 12:40
schestowitz IBM was unhappy when Novell helped OOXML Feb 19 12:40
oiaohm Ok when the money state turns around then think about linching them. Feb 19 12:40
schestowitz I know because I was told Feb 19 12:40
schestowitz IBM and MS pull Novell from both ends Feb 19 12:40
schestowitz Novell is run by IBMers Feb 19 12:40
schestowitz Jaffe and Hovsepian. Feb 19 12:41
schestowitz IBM endorse the MS deal. Feb 19 12:41
oiaohm Not really. Feb 19 12:41
schestowitz They have incompetent strategists maybe. Feb 19 12:41
schestowitz *endorsed Feb 19 12:41
oiaohm Novell will have a stratage. Feb 19 12:41
oiaohm question is what and when. Feb 19 12:41
oiaohm MS is not to there weakess point yet. Feb 19 12:42
schestowitz MS has ‘stores’ :-D Feb 19 12:42
schestowitz Maybe they’ll sell Netware there? :-) j/k Feb 19 12:43
schestowitz Maybe they’ll sell patent vouchers there to GNU/Linux users Feb 19 12:43
schestowitz Like foodstamps… Feb 19 12:43
schestowitz “I’ll have this USB mouse, one Epson cartridge and 4-month patent protection for my Ubuntu” Feb 19 12:44
oiaohm MS stores is another reason we want Novell alive. Feb 19 12:44
oiaohm MS aggreement to adveratise Novell. Feb 19 12:45
schestowitz “That’ll be $149, sir. We have a special offer today though. If you buy 6-month Linux protection from Microsoft, you get an extra 2 months free” Feb 19 12:45
oiaohm Makes there stores more of a laugh. Feb 19 12:45
schestowitz What it this CNN crapola (in my RSS feed for CNN>>Tech)? http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/expert.q.a… Feb 19 12:46
schestowitz http://www.prwatch.org/node/8220 “R&B singer Chris Brown has reportedly hired two PR agents specializing in crisis management to help rehabilitate his image following reports that he beat up his girlfriend, pop star Rihanna. PR Week reports that Brown has hired Michael Sitrick, who released a brief statement in Brown’s name, expressing sorrow and sadness over the incident while admitting no guilt. “ Feb 19 12:50
schestowitz PR, PR, PR… and more spin: “The “majority of American journalists covering climate change, energy, and environment understand that human industry is primarily responsible for global warming,” writes Curtis Brainard. Unfortunately, “a small minority of pundits — most of whom are talking heads and columnists, rather than hard news reporters” is “still trying to deny the well-established basics of climate science.” http://www.prwat Feb 19 12:51
schestowitz ch.org/node/8221 Feb 19 12:51
schestowitz http://www.prwatch.org/node/8221 Feb 19 12:51
schestowitz Look at Sam being attacked for justified convictions.. “It looks like the editor of this article has hatred against Novell,”  … “Looks the writer seems to hate Novell a lot… ” < http://discuss.itwire.com/vi… > Feb 19 13:08
schestowitz Likes Free software = hates Novel????? It’s like the “Microsoft hater” label, which refers merely to hatred of CRIME. Feb 19 13:08
MinceR makes sense — if someone likes freedom, they probably oppose those who want to take it away Feb 19 13:09
schestowitz No, NO! They’re teh “HATERZ”! Feb 19 13:10
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schestowitz CornyNovel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZtguZVIcZ4 Feb 19 13:18
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schestowitz http://www.linuxtoday.com/news_story.php… “I will never submit to cloud computing. My OS will always be GNU/Linux or some free software equivalent. I will always be running a pc locally and will never, ever, place my computing future in anyone else’s hands. “ Feb 19 13:45
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schestowitz MinceR (I quote you here): A critique of Apple’s practices and some words about Novell < http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/1… > Feb 19 14:34
MinceR :) Feb 19 14:35
schestowitz Coal-fired power stations are death factories. Close them < http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/f… > Feb 19 14:59
schestowitz A ‘fraud’ bigger than Madoff < http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/… > Feb 19 15:00
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schestowitz Bush Madoff? Feb 19 15:00
mib_r60ed8 apparently moonshite is now accepted into ubuntu for jaunty Feb 19 15:02
schestowitz Moonshine? Feb 19 15:02
schestowitz Or Moonlight? Feb 19 15:02
mib_r60ed8 moonlight Feb 19 15:02
schestowitz Was Jo Shields involved? Feb 19 15:03
schestowitz You can see the devel mailing lists Feb 19 15:03
mib_r60ed8 I don’t know who that is Feb 19 15:03
schestowitz They’ll try to poison the big distros for MS and Novell Feb 19 15:03
mib_r60ed8 he goes by directhex Feb 19 15:03
schestowitz Yes Feb 19 15:03
schestowitz That’s him. Feb 19 15:03
schestowitz Got URL? Feb 19 15:03
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mib_r60ed8 http://blog.worldofcoding.com/2009/02… Feb 19 15:03
mib_r60ed8 that’s how I found out Feb 19 15:03
schestowitz Look at the blogroll. Feb 19 15:04
schestowitz Is this a Mono devel? Feb 19 15:04
mib_r60ed8 probably, it doesn’t have a name that I can see Feb 19 15:05
mib_r60ed8 I just noticed the links on the side to miguel Feb 19 15:05
schestowitz http://shana.worldofcoding.com/ Feb 19 15:06
schestowitz Doesn’t seem like a Mono person Feb 19 15:06
mib_r60ed8 ah, ok Feb 19 15:07
trmanco who? Feb 19 15:08
schestowitz I’m writing about it. Feb 19 15:09
schestowitz Give me 1 min Feb 19 15:09
mib_r60ed8 the person at worldofcoding.com Feb 19 15:09
trmanco she is portuguese Feb 19 15:10
trmanco I think Feb 19 15:10
mib_r60ed8 “so I’ll just say I was born in Lisbon, Portugal” Feb 19 15:12
mib_r60ed8 looks like you are right Feb 19 15:12
schestowitz http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/19/pushi… Feb 19 15:12
trmanco yeah, Portugal loves .NET mambo jumbo Feb 19 15:13
schestowitz I’m still proofreading Feb 19 15:13
*schestowitz will need to create a petition or something Feb 19 15:13
trmanco LOOOL -Z http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/up… funny pic Feb 19 15:14
mib_r60ed8 trmanco, why? people should just program in c so it’s fast Feb 19 15:15
twitter I’ve updated the M$ patent extortion log with links from Groklaw.  http://slashdot.org/~twitter/… Feb 19 15:15
trmanco mib_r60ed8: why, what? Feb 19 15:16
schestowitz trmanco: can you say that it’s an old woman’s behind mooning you? Feb 19 15:16
mib_r60ed8 why do ppl like it in portugal? Feb 19 15:16
schestowitz Because it may be too small. Feb 19 15:16
twitter That picture was nasty.  Left a bad taste in the mouth. Feb 19 15:17
trmanco mib_r60ed8: the portuguese government are huge fans of Billy boys ex company Feb 19 15:17
mib_r60ed8 ic Feb 19 15:17
trmanco schestowitz: yeah, I guess I can :-P Feb 19 15:18
mib_r60ed8 .net is only for programmers who are worthless Feb 19 15:18
twitter almost like goatse Feb 19 15:18
mib_r60ed8 they need dnd to write code Feb 19 15:18
mib_r60ed8 I heard the mono guys even wrote their compiler in .net, probly cuz couldn’t write it w/o ez-mode gui program Feb 19 15:20
trmanco I simple kid can call themselves a programmer if they do it in .NET Feb 19 15:20
mib_r60ed8 yea Feb 19 15:21
twitter They are a programmer, just one that’s wasting their time. Feb 19 15:21
trmanco VB 2008 even has some wizard to build up programs… what happen to real programming in MS world… maybe there never was Feb 19 15:21
mib_r60ed8 twitter, yea, should be learning to write real programs in c Feb 19 15:21
twitter perl, fortran, java, or some other free language. Feb 19 15:22
trmanco twitter: yes, I wasted my time… and am still wasting learning .NET crap programming :( Feb 19 15:22
twitter I’m sorry to hear that. Feb 19 15:22
trmanco if I wan’t to program, say in GTK I’m on my own, and I like it like that Feb 19 15:22
twitter Hopefully, you are being paid for your torture. Feb 19 15:22
trmanco twitter: no I’m not Feb 19 15:23
mib_r60ed8 then why do you learn it? Feb 19 15:23
trmanco school doesn’t usually pay its students Feb 19 15:23
twitter forced. Feb 19 15:23
twitter sorry. Feb 19 15:23
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mib_r60ed8 ic Feb 19 15:23
trmanco that is why I say Portugal is a big .NET fan Feb 19 15:23
mib_r60ed8 go to another school? Feb 19 15:23
trmanco no Feb 19 15:24
trmanco 90% of portuguese schools have .NET stuff to teach to students Feb 19 15:24
twitter ugh! Feb 19 15:24
mib_r60ed8 you stdying to be programmer? Feb 19 15:25
twitter Are any of the remaining 10% worth attending? Feb 19 15:25
mib_r60ed8 I want to study that Feb 19 15:25
trmanco I’m now actually learning c++ and I’ve sort of read the hole manual in a couple of hours and I got sick of reading .NET shit Feb 19 15:25
mib_r60ed8 to help linux Feb 19 15:25
twitter M$ programming stuff is usually awful, like reading freaky cult literature. Feb 19 15:26
mib_r60ed8 twitetr, do you program? Feb 19 15:27
trmanco twitter: I’m not sure if it 90% or 99.9999%, I kinda made a quick brief Feb 19 15:27
trmanco twitter: and programs like VB hide half the code from you Feb 19 15:27
twitter I have programmed in C and fortran. Feb 19 15:27
mib_r60ed8 any programs I might use? Feb 19 15:28
twitter device development, radiation transport and a little imaging. Feb 19 15:28
schestowitz the Protuguese needs to be scrutinised for allowing the ‘sale’ of young people to a criminal origanisation. Feb 19 15:28
trmanco mib_r60ed8: go use emacs and GCC :-P Feb 19 15:28
schestowitz What sort of examples and message does that send? Feb 19 15:28
mib_r60ed8 trmanco: oh, did twitter program those? Feb 19 15:28
trmanco I refuse to program (at home) in .NET Feb 19 15:28
schestowitz Can you not lobby the schools? Feb 19 15:29
trmanco I already told my teacher and it is fine with him, but I’m on my own Feb 19 15:29
schestowitz They must not teach .NET or ASP junk Feb 19 15:29
schestowitz If they do, there’s right to protest Feb 19 15:29
mib_r60ed8 I heard of them and use gcc to compile stuff on my computer Feb 19 15:29
twitter Nah, all of the stuff I’ve done is deadly specific. Feb 19 15:29
trmanco mib_r60ed8: I don’t know, maybe he contributed a patch or something :-P Feb 19 15:29
twitter Outside of transport, I used free tools to get my jobs done. Feb 19 15:29
mib_r60ed8 I used gcc to compile my kde4.2 over the weekend Feb 19 15:30
mib_r60ed8 I looked at the code but it’s too hard for me Feb 19 15:30
trmanco schestowitz: I don’t know, I have never tried Feb 19 15:30
twitter For one job, long ago, I learned Win95 API.  The worst thing about VB was the cult like Bull Shit that you had to wade through to learn it. Feb 19 15:30
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twitter “New paradigms in programming” and so on and so forth. Feb 19 15:31
trmanco LOL Feb 19 15:31
mib_r60ed8 oh, I have to go. study hall is over, bye! Feb 19 15:31
trmanco bye Feb 19 15:31
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trmanco I’m also learning PHP+MySQL :D Feb 19 15:33
twitter be careful trmanco, the best thing for you to do in school is what your are told.  Make good grades and get yourself into a position to make a change. Feb 19 15:33
trmanco so not everthing is bad Feb 19 15:33
trmanco twitter: I’m the best the class has in programming (I’m not lying) or computer related stuff Feb 19 15:34
twitter good Feb 19 15:34
twitter I’m relatively convinced that I’m blacklisted and wish that I had been more careful in my protests. Feb 19 15:36
schestowitz Republicans try to block Guantánamo detainees from prisons in their districts < http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/16/guant… >; No mercy for mercenaries < http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf… > Feb 19 15:36
twitter use TOR, protest anonymously.  Don’t get caught – the fuckers are watching. Feb 19 15:37
schestowitz trmanco: “Linux is a cult that captures the best-and-brightest kids.” –Jim Gray (Microsoft Research) Feb 19 15:37
schestowitz Source:  http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/up… Feb 19 15:37
twitter M$ is a cult that captures the flunkies. Feb 19 15:37
trmanco schestowitz: Feb 19 15:37
schestowitz Microsoft is afraid of trmanco types Feb 19 15:38
schestowitz The Microsoft Munchkins attacked trmanco in USENET Feb 19 15:38
schestowitz They still do Feb 19 15:38
trmanco schestowitz: sorry about that I’m not at home… It captured me 2~3 years ago Feb 19 15:38
schestowitz They try to harm those who promote technologies other than Microsoft’s Feb 19 15:39
trmanco you guys have to forgive me for this, I’m on a Windows machine :( and I’m not familiar with my IRC client here Feb 19 15:39
schestowitz Windows? Feb 19 15:40
schestowitz Let’s see if I have a nuke proggy Feb 19 15:40
twitter that’s not nice. Feb 19 15:40
schestowitz http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/nuke/info.html Feb 19 15:40
trmanco yes, public library… the Ubuntu machines are all ocupied Feb 19 15:41
schestowitz Back to ICQ days of nuking mates. Feb 19 15:41
schestowitz trmanco: Ah……. Feb 19 15:41
schestowitz So it’s a good thing Feb 19 15:41
schestowitz The Linux machines are occupied first Feb 19 15:41
schestowitz Linux=meal; Windows = scraps Feb 19 15:41
trmanco yes.. only 3 Ubuntu machines… but better than nothing Feb 19 15:42
twitter It is probably too late for you trmanco.  M$ will do what it can to suck you in make your life hard. Feb 19 15:42
trmanco I’m using Seamonkey though Feb 19 15:42
twitter Windows == poison. Feb 19 15:42
trmanco twitter: Microsoft doesn’t make my “destiny” I do, I make the decisions around here :-P sort of… Feb 19 15:43
trmanco it is a slow poison Feb 19 15:44
twitter It is hard to make decisions when you have no options. Feb 19 15:44
trmanco slow into getting into our lives and slow by design Feb 19 15:44
trmanco I’m livving in a free world, I have my options Feb 19 15:44
twitter I can imagine all sorts of ways M$ can keep you from getting a job. Feb 19 15:45
trmanco just because school forced me into MS products, doesn’t mean I won’t learn free software Feb 19 15:45
twitter If they are friendly with your ISP, they can watch to see where you apply. Feb 19 15:46
trmanco I think I’ve said this before, people at school laugh at me for being different Feb 19 15:46
twitter from there they can directly or indirectly sabotage your chances Feb 19 15:46
trmanco twitter: my ISP suports free software Feb 19 15:46
MinceR schestowitz: the quote from me doesn’t fit in the context though, as it kind of goes against your point :) Feb 19 15:46
twitter ah, that is helpful Feb 19 15:47
trmanco http://developers.sapo.pt/ Feb 19 15:47
trmanco it has an open IM service (XMPP) Feb 19 15:47
twitter like I said, I wish that I’d had the tools and knowledge to protect myself better when I started my advocacy. Feb 19 15:47
trmanco and a bunch of ohter thing Feb 19 15:47
trmanco they heavily contribute to some web email project, can’t recall the name now Feb 19 15:48
trmanco and they use in their email service Feb 19 15:48
twitter it only takes one M$ mole to fish you out Feb 19 15:49
twitter M$ takes aim at individuals and will do everything it can to destroy each on their hit list. Feb 19 15:50
trmanco yep that is true, but they sure can die trying to fish me out of the free world Feb 19 15:51
trmanco I think I’m not on the list yet Feb 19 15:51
twitter I’ve read they will even go so far as to destroy the businesses of your relatives to eliminate your support network. Feb 19 15:51
twitter If they have attacked you in usenet, you are on their list. Feb 19 15:52
trmanco yes, “they” do attack me sometimes, it was worse before because I was posting some great advocacy, I stopped because I don’t have the time to keep doing it, but I will continue as soon as I can Feb 19 15:53
schestowitz twitter: Bray’s mwife? Feb 19 15:54
twitter Can’t remember.  Got link? Feb 19 15:54
schestowitz Yes Feb 19 15:54
schestowitz http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/Wh… Feb 19 15:55
twitter trmanco, do continue your advocacy but do so as anonymously as you can. Feb 19 15:55
schestowitz “Netscape hired me to represent their interests, and when I announced this, controversy ensued. Which is a nice way of saying that Microsoft went berserk; tried unsuccessfully to get me fired as co-editor, and then launched a vicious, deeply personal extended attack..” Feb 19 15:56
schestowitz ” in which they tried to destroy my career and took lethal action against a small struggling company because my wife worked there.” Feb 19 15:56
schestowitz ” It was a sideshow of a sideshow of the great campaign to bury Netscape and I’m sure the executives have forgotten; but I haven’t. “ Feb 19 15:56
twitter Yes, that’s what I remember.  Thanks for the link. Feb 19 15:56
schestowitz “…[C]ut off Netscape’s air supply.” –Paul Maritz, Vice President, Microsoft (Now VMWare CEO) Feb 19 15:56
twitter I will add it to my troll zoo.  I think you have closed the manufacturing abuse comments. Feb 19 15:57
schestowitz You can put lipstick on a criminal, but it’s still a criminal with lisptick. Feb 19 15:57
trmanco twitter: I will Feb 19 15:57
twitter cool Feb 19 15:57
trmanco schestowitz: sort of like the Vista 7 thing, it is just Vista with some more lipstick :-P Feb 19 15:57
trmanco DRM+crappy code+lipstick = Vista Feb 19 15:58
schestowitz Just got this E-mail: “We’re all very proud of you, it’s excellent that your website is getting so many visitors.  It’s  time people started paying attention, don’t you think?  :o) “ Feb 19 15:59
trmanco anonymous? Feb 19 15:59
schestowitz No. Feb 19 15:59
trmanco ok Feb 19 15:59
schestowitz Wow! http://www.chinasmack.com/pictures/japan… Feb 19 16:02
trmanco wow Feb 19 16:04
schestowitz But they choose specific pics Feb 19 16:04
schestowitz Like the colour of the suit… facial poses.. it’s mostly to do with hair colour, I think. Feb 19 16:05
schestowitz Old media vs new media (with FUD): “People’s health could be harmed by social networking sites because they reduce levels of face-to-face contact, an expert claims.” http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/h… Feb 19 16:06
schestowitz Craigslist used to complain that newspapers it was harming (classified) only ever covered FUD about Craigslist… which is probably TURE. Feb 19 16:06
trmanco speaking of social networks, schestowitz how is Identi.ca? Feb 19 16:08
schestowitz Microsoft gets away with scamming customers: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/067/1… Feb 19 16:08
schestowitz Could it be like yesterday’s story about bribed judges? Who knows..? Feb 19 16:08
schestowitz trmanco: haven’t used it since. Feb 19 16:09
schestowitz http://identi.ca/schestowitz Feb 19 16:09
trmanco you can submit a bug report, or a feature request Feb 19 16:09
trmanco for the export thingy Feb 19 16:09
schestowitz It says expor.. Export data Feb 19 16:10
schestowitz You beat me to it Feb 19 16:10
schestowitz Can it do the complete thing? Feb 19 16:10
schestowitz Raw text? Feb 19 16:10
schestowitz I put like 14k comments in Digg. Feb 19 16:10
schestowitz I have no copies of them Feb 19 16:10
trmanco I have no idea Feb 19 16:10
schestowitz Same in Slashdot.. Feb 19 16:10
trmanco it uses FOAF Feb 19 16:11
schestowitz I don’t want to toss my stuff around with someone else owning and controlling it Feb 19 16:11
schestowitz Including forgeries. Feb 19 16:11
trmanco to export you profile data, but that is it, the messages don’t get exported I think Feb 19 16:11
schestowitz FOAD doesn’t give the message dara Feb 19 16:11
trmanco schestowitz: have you seen indeti.ca license Feb 19 16:11
trmanco All Identi.ca content and data are available under the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 license. Feb 19 16:11
trmanco better than nothing Feb 19 16:12
schestowitz If you can pull it Feb 19 16:12
*trmanco checks Twitter Feb 19 16:13
schestowitz The DB is theirs Feb 19 16:13
schestowitz ASUS is pushed to stop low-cost laptops: http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20090219PD201.html Feb 19 16:14
schestowitz They got into bed with Microsoft again… back to price-fixing and collusion Feb 19 16:14
trmanco http://twitter.com/terms Feb 19 16:14
trmanco not bad (copyright part) Feb 19 16:14
schestowitz Can’t anger The Beast Feb 19 16:14
trmanco :( Asus has good hardware Feb 19 16:15
trmanco too bad it usually sleeps with a monopolist Feb 19 16:15
schestowitz Who puts money in http://www.the451group.com/ ? Feb 19 16:16
schestowitz I really don’t know…. Feb 19 16:16
schestowitz Redmonk at least admits that they are funded by Microsoft (in part). Feb 19 16:16
trmanco I have to got, see you guys later Feb 19 16:17
trmanco go* Feb 19 16:17
schestowitz http://www.the451group.com/report_view/re… “You must be a current client, or active trialist of The 451 Group’s services to view active content.” Feb 19 16:17
schestowitz So basically it’s like journalism but not free Feb 19 16:18
schestowitz Who would pay and what would be the impact? Feb 19 16:18
schestowitz http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=moz… Feb 19 16:19
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schestowitz Feb 19 16:19
schestowitz Our customers fall into three main groups: the vendors and service providers that create, manufacture and distribute these products and technologies; the investment community that initially funds, and then facilitates the sale or public offering of these vendors once they have become successful; and the organizations that buy and use these technologies. “ Feb 19 16:19
schestowitz They don’t give names of companies. Feb 19 16:19
twitter Japanese people rarely get gray hair…. the rest of the guy’s face has not changed much. Feb 19 16:19
schestowitz So how do I know whose interests they are biased in favbour? Feb 19 16:19
schestowitz They visited Microsott last year. Feb 19 16:20
schestowitz What good is an analyst who doesn’t say where money comes from? Feb 19 16:21
twitter reader subscriptions are a good way to fund a paper, translating that to the web can be difficult. Feb 19 16:21
schestowitz It’s like the US government, which the Obama Brand is trying to Change(R) Feb 19 16:21
schestowitz twitter: yes, and it affects the paper too Feb 19 16:21
schestowitz Burton is an example Feb 19 16:22
schestowitz Microsoft bribed the buggers with consulting, jobs, etc. for attacking Google, ODF, etc Feb 19 16:22
twitter Is it the Guardian or the Independent that’s subscriber based and free on the web? Feb 19 16:22
schestowitz .I’m getting tired of this business of opinion for sale Feb 19 16:22
schestowitz twitter: some of these reports are expensive to read Feb 19 16:22
schestowitz But who would pay for them? Feb 19 16:23
schestowitz Here goes: Feb 19 16:23
schestowitz 1. Tell analyst to do study to show X Feb 19 16:23
schestowitz 2. analyst published it with high price tag Feb 19 16:23
schestowitz 3. You subscribe to get the study Feb 19 16:23
schestowitz 4 Profit! (to analyst) Feb 19 16:23
twitter It’s an old business.  I’ve seen a statement from like 1900, where a woman’s magazine told his advertisers that they were the real customers. Feb 19 16:23
schestowitz Of course Feb 19 16:23
schestowitz The audience is the product Feb 19 16:24
schestowitz Priuvileged audience is product Feb 19 16:24
schestowitz Advertisers are customers Feb 19 16:24
schestowitz Just swtching on the TV won’t generate money Feb 19 16:24
schestowitz To broadcasters, ads are what they call “content” Feb 19 16:24
schestowitz The show is what they call “fill” Feb 19 16:24
schestowitz It’s there to have you engages and stay for the next “content” (commercial) break Feb 19 16:25
schestowitz They think the opposite from what people are led to believe. Feb 19 16:25
twitter It would not be so harmful if the rest of industry was not so consolidated, but these things are two sides of the same coin. Feb 19 16:25
schestowitz Maybe I should mail 351 Group? Feb 19 16:25
schestowitz Ask them for disclosures? Feb 19 16:25
schestowitz *451 Feb 19 16:25
schestowitz I don’t want to criticise without asking first. Feb 19 16:26
schestowitz kim.kent@the451group.com Feb 19 16:26
schestowitz I thought about it cause I keep seeing rubbish like this: http://www.itwire.com/con… Feb 19 16:27
schestowitz “Hi, I wish to enquire why The 451 Group does not make any visible disclosure of its clients. Doing so would add great credibility. A response would be greatly appreciated. With kids regards, Roy” Feb 19 16:28
twitter gotta go for a while, keep it up. Feb 19 16:38
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schestowitz Fasthosts to offshore support staff < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/0… > Feb 19 16:40
schestowitz HP imposes staff wage cuts < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/… > Always followed by some insults like “you are not skilled enough”, the “education system is behind (so we need visas)” and “you get paid too much” Feb 19 16:41
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schestowitz Hostile email from the Open Rights Group < http://foocorp.org/products/exploringfreed… > Feb 19 16:44
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schestowitz Italian Judge Declines To Dismiss Lawsuit Charging Google Execs As Criminals For YouTube Video < http://techdirt.com/articles/20090219/… > Feb 19 16:59
schestowitz Italian Cops Complain That They Can’t Listen In On Skype < http://techdirt.com/articles/200902… > Feb 19 17:01
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schestowitz http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/… “And I’ll wager that they’re not all after the latest Ubuntu package or the Wikipedia selection for schools (which is, let me say, excellent).” Feb 19 17:10
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schestowitz Byfield says bad things about Debian even ( Debian GNU/Linux 5.0: Flexible and (Almost) Free < http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/38… > ), despite the fact that he was in Progeny. Feb 19 17:11
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schestowitz PR prelude to addiction of African schools (seen before): http://www.techflash.com/microsoft/How_a_group_… No word on GNU/Linux in Africa, which is why Microsoft does this. Feb 19 17:23
schestowitz *ping* trmanco Feb 19 17:25
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zer0c00l good night Feb 19 17:48
schestowitz What’s this site running? http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site… Feb 19 17:49
schestowitz It seems to be Windows Feb 19 17:49
schestowitz Netcraft says Apache. Feb 19 17:49
schestowitz the site is case insensitive. Feb 19 17:49
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zer0c00l may me wamp? Feb 19 17:52
schestowitz That’s what I thiought Feb 19 17:52
zer0c00l windows+apache +mysql+pho Feb 19 17:52
schestowitz o they dumped IIS? Feb 19 17:52
zer0c00l yeah Feb 19 17:53
schestowitz OK Feb 19 17:53
schestowitz Cause I do a post about it Feb 19 17:53
zer0c00l may be Feb 19 17:53
schestowitz I want to get the facts right Feb 19 17:53
schestowitz Can HTTP headers tell more? Feb 19 17:53
zer0c00l what about nmap scan Feb 19 17:53
schestowitz trmanco has the utils Feb 19 17:53
zer0c00l nmap -v -sS -O www.netcraft.com Feb 19 17:53
schestowitz I no longer have the Firefox plugin for HTTP headers. Feb 19 17:53
zer0c00l ?? Feb 19 17:53
PetoKraus netcraft? Feb 19 17:53
schestowitz nmap is illegal in the UK Feb 19 17:53
PetoKraus is it Feb 19 17:54
zer0c00l oh Feb 19 17:54
schestowitz Gordon and other Clowns think they’ll stop crime by ‘banning’ something Feb 19 17:54
schestowitz Like banning drinking for under 18s actually prevents them from drinking…. Feb 19 17:54
zer0c00l use some other os fingerprinting software Feb 19 17:55
zer0c00l lol Feb 19 17:55
zer0c00l actually it aggravates things Feb 19 17:55
zer0c00l ban increases crimes Feb 19 17:55
zer0c00l :) Feb 19 17:55
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schestowitz Yes Feb 19 17:58
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trmanco back at home /relief Feb 19 18:22
schestowitz trmanco: quick Feb 19 18:24
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schestowitz What does http://www.razorfish.com run on? Feb 19 18:24
trmanco schestowitz, no really Feb 19 18:24
trmanco not* Feb 19 18:25
schestowitz I’m going to post Feb 19 18:25
trmanco w3m -dump_head http://www.razorfish.com/ Feb 19 18:25
trmanco HTTP/1.1 200 OK Feb 19 18:25
trmanco Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 19:45:54 GMT Feb 19 18:25
trmanco Server: Apache Feb 19 18:25
trmanco X-Powered-By: blank Feb 19 18:25
trmanco Connection: close Feb 19 18:25
schestowitz More Microsoft destruction is coming shortly, I reckon. Selling part of MSFT instead officcisal layoffs. Feb 19 18:25
trmanco Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Feb 19 18:25
schestowitz trmanco: cool, thanls. Feb 19 18:25
trmanco you’re welcome Feb 19 18:26
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schestowitz Have a look while I still edit: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/02/1… Feb 19 18:27
trmanco so far so good Feb 19 18:30
schestowitz I made minor edits to make it clearer Feb 19 18:31
schestowitz Now part II :-D Feb 19 18:31
trmanco :p Feb 19 18:32
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schestowitz I just need to find a good picture. Feb 19 18:33
trmanco GNU make one Feb 19 18:34
trmanco :-P Feb 19 18:34
schestowitz Too tough.. http://www.sxc.hu/photo/1126853 Feb 19 18:34
trmanco loool Feb 19 18:34
schestowitz Yeah.. I’ll use a GNU Feb 19 18:34
trmanco ;) good Feb 19 18:37
trmanco http://creativecommons.or… Feb 19 18:38
schestowitz I’ll take a break now. I’ll do part 2 later tonight Feb 19 18:42
trmanco ok Feb 19 18:45
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trmanco the Tux3 filesystem is evolving rapidly Feb 19 19:21
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trmanco transmission 1.50, wow, looks like I’m living under a rock Feb 19 19:44
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schestowitz I’m tires of hearing interop this and that. :-) ‘interop’ is just a two-party ‘standard’. It’s a scam ‘standard’. It should be considered propaganda work like “intellectual property” or “piracy”. Feb 19 21:58
schestowitz *tired Feb 19 21:58
balzac here’s something funny Feb 19 22:04
balzac http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9… Feb 19 22:04
schestowitz YouTube=shills Feb 19 22:04
schestowitz Novell too.. Feb 19 22:04
schestowitz http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/b… Feb 19 22:04
schestowitz Novell is flooding YouTube. Feb 19 22:05
schestowitz Pirate Bay Supporters Hack Swedish IFPI Web Site < http://www.pcworld.com/article/159806/pirat… > Feb 19 22:13
schestowitz Web Application Platform Coghead Shuts Down < http://www.pcworld.com/article/159828/web_a… > Feb 19 22:13
balzac Roy, I saw you quoted in a recent article regarding the inaccuracy of Net Applications browser statistics Feb 19 22:21
schestowitz Yes, that was an SJVN article. SJVN is doing self torture: http://www.infoworld.com/article/09/02/19/Ta… Feb 19 22:23
schestowitz balzac: I made it into another IDG article this week and another next week (InfoWorld). We’re being approaches for comments and taken seriously. Heise linked to us yesterday and got us like 10k pageviews Feb 19 22:24
balzac that must be nice Feb 19 22:24
balzac I had fantasies of being a successful blogger once Feb 19 22:24
balzac It was a combination of good branding and then a lot of hard work. Feb 19 22:25
balzac you guys earn your traffic Feb 19 22:25
balzac lots of scoops too Feb 19 22:25
balzac people are getting excited by microsoft’s troubles Feb 19 22:26
balzac there’s blood in the water Feb 19 22:26
schestowitz balzac: I was doing blogging in schestowitz.com for years Feb 19 22:27
schestowitz It was personal stuff mostly (you can see if you are curious) Feb 19 22:27
schestowitz BN is just focused on a theme, so it seems to work Feb 19 22:28
balzac I got into it relatively late but made a good effort Feb 19 22:28
schestowitz Yes, too many people Feb 19 22:28
balzac prior to that, it was all about irc for me. Feb 19 22:28
schestowitz Hundreds of millions sharing the same hopes Feb 19 22:28
schestowitz FSDaily has sort of awoken again. Feb 19 22:28
balzac that’s good news Feb 19 22:29
schestowitz LXer went back for half a day yesterday Feb 19 22:29
schestowitz IDG lays off massively Feb 19 22:29
schestowitz But that’s a good one Feb 19 22:29
schestowitz .Although some of their *NIX/FOSS-centric ones got laid off too (they told me) Feb 19 22:29
balzac oh well… Feb 19 22:30
schestowitz I don’t think I was ever laid off. Feb 19 22:30
schestowitz I just quit when it becomes too boring for me to do good work. Feb 19 22:30
balzac I’ve been fired and I’ve quit, but never been laid off. Feb 19 22:30
schestowitz Unisys aint dead just yet… Unisys threatens Itanium with death < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/… > Feb 19 22:32
balzac I’ve never been part of a company big enough to have lay offs. I’ve contracted as such companies but never been employed. Feb 19 22:32
schestowitz Unisys is the next SGI.. a zombie on taxpayers’ life support (aka Chapter 11/stimulus/bailout/emergency) Feb 19 22:32
schestowitz Microsoft will likely need bailout too Feb 19 22:33
balzac hell no Feb 19 22:33
schestowitz They try to hoard people’s critical and vital stuff for protection Feb 19 22:33
schestowitz This was pointed out around 2006 Feb 19 22:33
schestowitz I’ll never forget it Feb 19 22:33
balzac cuba is coming out with an distro called Nova Feb 19 22:33
schestowitz They also lobbied very hard for ‘bailout’ (public looting) Feb 19 22:33
balzac they’re making a concerted effort to switch to F&OSS Feb 19 22:33
schestowitz Ballmer said this was necessary, almost frantically. Feb 19 22:33
schestowitz Steve Crocker Feb 19 22:34
balzac jeez Feb 19 22:34
schestowitz No va. Feb 19 22:34
schestowitz No go.. Feb 19 22:34
balzac I’m about to get hit badly by the IRS Feb 19 22:34
balzac yeah, I know Feb 19 22:34
schestowitz IRS.. Feb 19 22:34
schestowitz Didn’t Obama say something about em? Feb 19 22:34
schestowitz I think Ron Paul did.. Feb 19 22:34
schestowitz About not needing them or something. Feb 19 22:35
balzac My taxes paid for last year will afford some bank executive two nights of indulgence with high-priced call-girls, high-grade cocaine and fancy champagne. Feb 19 22:35
balzac maybe just one night of indulgence for one of these aristocrats Feb 19 22:36
schestowitz Hehe. sounds like them! Feb 19 22:37
Balrog erm …..  I’m tired of people writing software that uses GPL code and witholding their modified code :/ Feb 19 22:37
schestowitz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Bateman Feb 19 22:37
schestowitz Balrog: like VMmaritz? Feb 19 22:38
balzac it would be perfectly fair if I robbed one of these guys in person Feb 19 22:38
schestowitz New York is a crazy place Feb 19 22:38
Balrog unfortunately, independent developers do it too Feb 19 22:39
Balrog not many, but it really bugs me when I want to look at code that’s supposed to be open and it isn’t. Feb 19 22:41
schestowitz Has your code been misused? Feb 19 22:43
Balrog no, not mine Feb 19 22:43
schestowitz McAfee is almost certainly a violator too Feb 19 22:43
schestowitz It can be buried by the FOSS people. Feb 19 22:43
schestowitz In the mean time it spread FOSS and GPL FUD every now and then, so it should be careful what it asks for. Feb 19 22:44
Balrog well the GPL has held up in court so far. Feb 19 22:44
Balrog but that doesn’t matter, with court cases being so expensive these days Feb 19 22:45
schestowitz Cisco coming up Feb 19 22:45
Balrog Yes. And they deserve it. Feb 19 22:46
schestowitz They do a lot of Linux/FOSS PR as a result. Feb 19 22:49
schestowitz They try to instill guilt in the accusers’ minds. Feb 19 22:49
Balrog yeah, like that recent FOSS contest Feb 19 22:50
Balrog that was announced Feb 19 22:50
schestowitz Another one is Nokia. My only concern with Nokia, for example, is that it belongs (in the copyrights sense) to a company that promotes software patents in Europe. It also defends DRM and it is sometimes hostile towards the GPL. Feb 19 22:54
schestowitz Nokia has just received like .3 billion dollars (or Euros) from Europe to develop Symbian. Feb 19 22:54
schestowitz Why not Linux???????? Feb 19 22:54
schestowitz I believe that like all companies they have the chance to show that they can change and that Symbian open-source is not just a PR ploy intended to save a platform from the bitbucket (remember Palm OS?). If Symbian embraces GPLv3, that would give Linux a a kick in the pants and balzac too would appreciate it. Feb 19 22:55
*Casperin (n=Casperin@x1-6-00-1e-2a-29-69-de.k112.webspeed.dk) has joined #boycottnovell Feb 19 22:56
schestowitz OK, the amount of $600 million. That’s almost as much as it cost to develop Linux, assuming volunteer time and all….. Feb 19 22:56
schestowitz Europe needs to invest in a good, open, participatory search engine. What ever happened to that Germany/France-led project they had? Instead they do silly LHC experiments. Feb 19 22:57
schestowitz IDG and that company from a Microsoft employee (OpenLogic) spread FOSS FUD now with the “RISK” buzzword: Feb 19 22:58
schestowitz http://www.contractoruk.com/004208.html Feb 19 22:58
schestowitz OMG! Feb 19 22:59
schestowitz http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-10535-0… “I believe the Android is Linux-based, but I know Feb 19 22:59
schestowitz Symbian’s not, and I don’t think LiMo is.” Feb 19 22:59
schestowitz And that’s from the guy running the Linux blog of ZDNet? Feb 19 22:59
schestowitz No wonder, he doesn’t even use Linux Feb 19 22:59
schestowitz CBSSports shuts out GNU/Linux users ‘thanks’ to Microsoft: http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/micr… Feb 19 23:09
schestowitz This one got me annoyed (the comments), so I replied: SILVER LIE it NOT cross-platform. Stop lying, Munchkins. Feb 19 23:11
schestowitz http://www.thevarguy.com/2009/02/18/novell… “What does “Novell bashers” mean? People who say the truth? This is not stand-up comedy. There is no “bashing”.” Feb 19 23:17
*Casperin has quit (“Leaving”) Feb 19 23:23
schestowitz Thom Holwerda  is defending Microsoft again (the reason for unsubscribing from OSNews): http://osnews.com/story/21002/Resorting_to_F… Feb 19 23:24
Balrog Well, Windows 7 has at least as much DRM as Vista Feb 19 23:28
schestowitz I.e. NotEnough PlaysForSure(R) Feb 19 23:28
Balrog And when it comes to Moonlight, one reason it has no use to me is that it won’t play content I need to access (i.e. SonicFoundry MediaSite -produced contend from my university) Feb 19 23:29
schestowitz BTW: also irrelevant to Thom’s slew of pro-Microsoft propaganda that got long-time subs — me included — leaving his site Feb 19 23:29
Balrog do you know any good alternatives to that product (SonicFoundry MediaSite)? They want to use something that’s at least cross-platform but there doesn’t seem to be a good solution. Feb 19 23:30
schestowitz Moonlight can be a vector to DRM or denier of access. MS is already doing Silver Lie 3.0. Novell has only just gained 1.0 compat Feb 19 23:30
Balrog No, I’m talking about this product which you use to (a) videotape a lecture, (b) put it online. Unfortunately, the company uses Silverlight to do this. Feb 19 23:31
Balrog this is a hardware + software product. Feb 19 23:31
schestowitz Shunning of that is needed. Feb 19 23:32
Balrog It’s nicely done, but the fact it’s tied to M$ is not a good thing at all. Feb 19 23:32
Balrog problem is, are there any other options? Feb 19 23:32
schestowitz Which is why I am very upset when the MS lackeys bring up the fraudulent argument about x-platform Feb 19 23:32
Balrog (Seems that they use Silverlight for DRM, but we don’t care about that at all) Feb 19 23:32
Balrog yeah right, x-platform Feb 19 23:32
schestowitz Balrog: there are other options, including the explanation of ideaology to lecturers. Feb 19 23:33
Balrog doesn’t even work with Mac unless the server admin does some fiddling with the server Feb 19 23:33
schestowitz I don’t know the product, for for duration, preservation, curation eyc. they must avoid DRM Feb 19 23:33
schestowitz That’s what we have CC people like Lessig trying to explain to the world, inc. lawmakers, Obama and so on. Feb 19 23:33
Balrog The idea is to (a) videotape a lecture and capture slides, (b) post it online so students can view it. It has to be easy to use and portable. Feb 19 23:34
schestowitz DRM does not shore up business. Feb 19 23:34
schestowitz It’s an illusion Feb 19 23:34
Balrog There’s NO requirement for DRM and stuff. WE don’t want it Feb 19 23:34
schestowitz The problem is not solvable Feb 19 23:34
Balrog (the lecturers don’t care.) Feb 19 23:34
schestowitz People with mics and tripods will grab one DRM-free copy Feb 19 23:34
MinceR http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?s… Feb 19 23:34
schestowitz They can then use protable media to mreplicate Feb 19 23:34
schestowitz They need to find new biz models. Feb 19 23:34
MinceR Obama Anti-Trust Chief Asleep At The Wheel Feb 19 23:34
MinceR ‘For me, Microsoft is so last century. They are not the problem,’ Feb 19 23:34
Balrog yeah I saw that Feb 19 23:35
MinceR i wonder how much did that sentence cost. Feb 19 23:35
schestowitz MinceR: I wrote about it Feb 19 23:35
schestowitz Potential crony Feb 19 23:35
MinceR good. :) Feb 19 23:35
schestowitz But she did the Netscape hack job Feb 19 23:35
schestowitz Submitted by Mike Elgan Feb 19 23:35
schestowitz Microsoft fan in some ways Feb 19 23:35
schestowitz Proud “Windows guy” according to him Feb 19 23:36
schestowitz Must have liked this ‘news’.. Feb 19 23:36
schestowitz Prodding the nominee like it’s the Oscars… Feb 19 23:36
schestowitz haha! Feb 19 23:36
schestowitz post by Preston Gralla Feb 19 23:36
schestowitz Microsoft shills galore Feb 19 23:36
schestowitz and Slashdot drank it!! Feb 19 23:36
Balrog I don’t think Google will have a problem. They’re behind Android after all, and so much of their other code is FOSS (Google Gears, Google Updater,  and probably others) Feb 19 23:39
MinceR well, microsoft is the american dream Feb 19 23:39
MinceR moneygrubbing at all costs, crushing all opposition via unethical means Feb 19 23:39
MinceR it’s what everybody wants to do Feb 19 23:39
MinceR and the clueless masses worship them for it Feb 19 23:40
Balrog yeah, and it’s what was going on in the 1900′s too….that led to the failure of many companies Feb 19 23:40
Balrog (i.e. the railroads, the steel industry) Feb 19 23:40
MinceR a “university” here in budapest even honored SweatyBeast Feb 19 23:40
Balrog who’s SweatyBeast?? Feb 19 23:41
MinceR because someone who gets rich by ruining an industry and hindering technological advancement by years must be looked up to Feb 19 23:41
MinceR Balrog: Monkey Boy Feb 19 23:41
MinceR also known as steve ballmer Feb 19 23:41
Balrog ah. Feb 19 23:41
MinceR it also says something about what our government dares call our “educational system” Feb 19 23:41
MinceR well, superficially that wreckage does resemble an educational system… Feb 19 23:41
Balrog Well, it’s interesting what goes on at the uni I work / study at. The faculty is mixed over Windows, but the sysadmins hate it Feb 19 23:41
MinceR i’m guessing they’re ones who have to solve the problems arising from its use Feb 19 23:42
Balrog (and hate working with stuff like the video-capture ones mentioned) Feb 19 23:42
Balrog yes, unfortunately Feb 19 23:42
Balrog I work for them and therefore see it. Feb 19 23:42
Balrog (the sysadmins) Feb 19 23:42
Balrog Lately I’ve been doing Solaris stuff (on SPARC machines) …. it’s a pain in a way but you can’t compare it to how bad Windows is. Feb 19 23:43
schestowitz MinceR: education system -> training centre Feb 19 23:46
MinceR i’d call it brainwashing, but yes. Feb 19 23:46
schestowitz Many universities are privatized and made property of companies over time, literally (France a recent joiner under Sarkoism) Feb 19 23:46
Balrog The professors are a mixed bunch. There are a several who prefer cross platform, several (apparently a smaller group) that prefer Windows / .NET / C# / VB, and a few that are too lazy to care. Feb 19 23:46
schestowitz MinceR: that education IS a system of imposed ignorance Feb 19 23:46
schestowitz It’s about obedience Feb 19 23:46
MinceR i think we should start a new kind of society Feb 19 23:47
schestowitz Preparing young mind for mode of thought. Feb 19 23:47
schestowitz I had a conversation about this earlier at the gym Feb 19 23:47
MinceR for people who care about freedom and a life that isn’t about trying to do as much damage as everyone else as possible Feb 19 23:47
Balrog Like for information science + tech students, they require VB Feb 19 23:47
schestowitz This guy who rebelled many years ago while at school got marginalised Feb 19 23:47
MinceR one founded on intelligence, not ignorance. Feb 19 23:47
schestowitz MinceR: you ask to undo the AmericanDream(C) merchandise Feb 19 23:48
schestowitz [H]omer might have something to say about it. Feb 19 23:48
schestowitz Healthy doses of AmericanDream(C) is what  keeps those already in power in power Feb 19 23:48
MinceR i ask to start something new Feb 19 23:49
MinceR leave the ignorant masses to the hell they love so much. Feb 19 23:49
schestowitz Of course, most people will listen to shill ‘studies’ and believe that artifically-made fats are OK because “Everyone eats then” Feb 19 23:49
MinceR and then kill them with war robots. Feb 19 23:49
schestowitz They’ll dream of pensions but die at 61 froma heart attack Feb 19 23:49
schestowitz Saves money for the countries Feb 19 23:49
schestowitz And when 401k collapses, the execs will fly over (private jet) for bailout requests Feb 19 23:50
schestowitz That’s the American Dream Feb 19 23:50
schestowitz Tough love… “good for me… tough for everyone else” Feb 19 23:50
schestowitz MinceR: what if all levels were made /not/ ignorant as you suggest? Feb 19 23:51
schestowitz I think we have too much reliant on people being educated that being slaves is acceptance. Feb 19 23:51
MinceR as far as i can tell, clueful people are a scattered extreme minority. Feb 19 23:51
schestowitz And that bad engineering and tough love is OK if there is an emergency (e.g. “War” on “terrorism) Feb 19 23:52
schestowitz That’s when people stop caring about their freedom, diet, old mother, etc. and stick together to ‘save the Queen’ so to speak. Feb 19 23:52
schestowitz So a level of brainwash sometimes glues an operational society together Feb 19 23:52
MinceR and there’s always an emergency now Feb 19 23:53
MinceR we have always been at war with oceania Feb 19 23:53
Balrog At the school I’m at, computer science students don’t need to take any of those courses; information science programs are required to take two .NET courses Feb 19 23:53
Balrog but yeah, as a whole, schools aren’t that open Feb 19 23:54
schestowitz MinceR: Clash of Cultures mode Feb 19 23:54
schestowitz http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con… Feb 19 23:54
MinceR 005314 < MinceR> for people who care about freedom and a life that isn’t about trying to do as much damage as everyone else as possible Feb 19 23:54
MinceR s/as everyone/to everyone/ Feb 19 23:54
schestowitz Good talk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boBzrqF4vmo Feb 19 23:55
schestowitz Ubuntu comes to mind as the “Another way” Feb 19 23:55
schestowitz Ubuntu not as in the O/S… they sort of hijacked a word that’s commonly used in the African press where crisis (real one like hunger) is a lot more common Feb 19 23:56
schestowitz In the US, crisis = might have to give up the second car Feb 19 23:56
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