To use your own IRC client, join channel #boycottnovell in FreeNode.
| DaemonFC | You fork it, you incur tons of additional maintenance cost | Apr 04 03:54 |
|---|---|---|
| DaemonFC | for little benefit | Apr 04 03:54 |
| oiaohm | And all the UNIX forks of BSD? | Apr 04 03:55 |
| oiaohm | Vendor locking so people cannot change out weights the maintenance costs at that stage. | Apr 04 03:55 |
| oiaohm | Nothing stops you from using 99.9 percent BSD code with a .1 percent custom userlock in patch. | Apr 04 03:56 |
| oiaohm | So the maintaince for gain is bugger all DaemonFC | Apr 04 03:56 |
| oiaohm | Even Windows contains some BSD code that MS has never ever published any alterations they have ever done on it. | Apr 04 03:57 |
| DaemonFC | and they have that already | Apr 04 03:57 |
| DaemonFC | it's called distributions | Apr 04 03:57 |
| oiaohm | You see distributions as unbreakable vendor lock in. | Apr 04 03:58 |
| oiaohm | they are not. | Apr 04 03:58 |
| oiaohm | do you know what a chroot in Linux allows you todo DaemonFC | Apr 04 03:58 |
| oiaohm | Basically install another distribution inside your current 1. | Apr 04 03:58 |
| DaemonFC | yeah | Apr 04 03:59 |
| DaemonFC | you can do that in Solaris too | Apr 04 03:59 |
| DaemonFC | and install CentOS | Apr 04 03:59 |
| oiaohm | Branded zones | Apr 04 03:59 |
| oiaohm | Yep that solaris added to try to slow there loss of market to linux. | Apr 04 04:00 |
| oiaohm | Distributions biggest cause of lock in is the X11 server. | Apr 04 04:00 |
| oiaohm | Mostly due to X11 server poor design. | Apr 04 04:00 |
| oiaohm | New design addresses those problems. | Apr 04 04:00 |
| oiaohm | The time of the Linux Distribution lockin is coming to a end. | Apr 04 04:01 |
| oiaohm | Virtualisation is one of the forces of unification. | Apr 04 04:02 |
| oiaohm | The other is what the Linux Standard Base is upto. | Apr 04 04:02 |
| oiaohm | The Linux Distribution mess always had a limited time frame. When it started there was always though the would only be one Distribution in the end left standing. | Apr 04 04:04 |
| oiaohm | The idea of vendor lock in on Linux is nothing more than a trick. BSD forks on the other hand its more than real. Altered excutable formats syscalls and so on to the point of incompadibly with no documentation. | Apr 04 04:06 |
| oiaohm | And people like you DaemonFC fall for it. | Apr 04 04:07 |
| _Hicham_ | oiaohm : is KMS available for 2.6.28? | Apr 04 04:11 |
| oiaohm | _Hicham_: as a custom applied patch. | Apr 04 04:11 |
| _Hicham_ | and in 2.6.29 by default? | Apr 04 04:12 |
| oiaohm | KMS alters kernel panic so it will be always displayed. | Apr 04 04:12 |
| oiaohm | 2.6.29 if you have intel card. | Apr 04 04:12 |
| oiaohm | Anything else is a custom patch. | Apr 04 04:12 |
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| oiaohm | By 2.6.31 we should have all common cards with KMS. | Apr 04 04:12 |
| _Hicham_ | ATI still not supporting it? | Apr 04 04:13 |
| oiaohm | ATI will be supporting it. | Apr 04 04:13 |
| oiaohm | Its a simple case of getting all the code up to the point its good enough to kernel merge. | Apr 04 04:13 |
| oiaohm | VIA will be supporting it as well. | Apr 04 04:14 |
| _Hicham_ | wow | Apr 04 04:14 |
| oiaohm | Nvidia could the the one out sider. | Apr 04 04:14 |
| oiaohm | first the be | Apr 04 04:14 |
| _Hicham_ | so plymouth will be available for all distros? | Apr 04 04:14 |
| oiaohm | Maybe maybe not. | Apr 04 04:14 |
| oiaohm | plymouth is not a required part for operation. | Apr 04 04:14 |
| _Hicham_ | i mean all distros can use it? | Apr 04 04:16 |
| _Hicham_ | i know it is not requiered... | Apr 04 04:16 |
| oiaohm | Its choose to. | Apr 04 04:16 |
| oiaohm | They might choose something else that configures diffenetly to what plymouth does. | Apr 04 04:17 |
| _Hicham_ | it is the prettiest graphical boot for the moment | Apr 04 04:17 |
| _Hicham_ | I think MS will copy it | Apr 04 04:17 |
| oiaohm | Problem is in future will it be. | Apr 04 04:17 |
| oiaohm | the best. | Apr 04 04:18 |
| oiaohm | MS has taken away users means to change boot graphic _Hicham_ | Apr 04 04:18 |
| oiaohm | Thinking Linux standard boot time is planed to get down to less than 5 seconds. | Apr 04 04:18 |
| oiaohm | You will not really be looking at the boot screen for long. | Apr 04 04:18 |
| _Hicham_ | the 5 seconds is still far | Apr 04 04:19 |
| _Hicham_ | we are not there yet | Apr 04 04:19 |
| oiaohm | We know what is in way. | Apr 04 04:19 |
| oiaohm | Its just getting the code corrected. | Apr 04 04:19 |
| _Hicham_ | the patches done by Intel won't be merged soon | Apr 04 04:19 |
| oiaohm | You can have 5 seconds today with patches that cause instablity. | Apr 04 04:19 |
| _Hicham_ | are these patches available? | Apr 04 04:20 |
| oiaohm | fastboot branch of the Linux kernel. | Apr 04 04:20 |
| oiaohm | They are being altered to more stable form and slowly merged into the main kernel. | Apr 04 04:20 |
| oiaohm | Most people have not noticed the slow but sure drop in the start up time of the main kernel before init starts. | Apr 04 04:21 |
| oiaohm | A year ago it was over 14 seconds these days its under 7. | Apr 04 04:21 |
| _Hicham_ | the 2.6.29 is slower | Apr 04 04:21 |
| oiaohm | It has to get to 1. | Apr 04 04:21 |
| oiaohm | 2.6.29 is slightly faster in the to init process mesurement than 2.6.28 | Apr 04 04:22 |
| _Hicham_ | so the init is the cause? | Apr 04 04:22 |
| oiaohm | Filesystem alteration. | Apr 04 04:23 |
| oiaohm | Cleaned up one problem caused a slowdown on ext3 | Apr 04 04:23 |
| _Hicham_ | it is very interesting to boot in 5 seconds | Apr 04 04:25 |
| oiaohm | Boot process is highly sentivie to lots of minor alteratins. | Apr 04 04:25 |
| oiaohm | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7NxCM8ryF8 << boot in 5 secound including login _Hicham_ | Apr 04 04:27 |
| _Hicham_ | i seen this about Moblin | Apr 04 04:28 |
| _Hicham_ | so we can install Moblin on usual notebooks? | Apr 04 04:28 |
| _Hicham_ | or it is just for netbooks? | Apr 04 04:28 |
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| oiaohm | Modlin can be instaled on basically anything. | Apr 04 04:29 |
| oiaohm | Its more of a research project of how far can you push Linux. | Apr 04 04:29 |
| _Hicham_ | did u try it? | Apr 04 04:29 |
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| oiaohm | I have tried fastboot alterations with normal distributions. | Apr 04 04:32 |
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| schestowitz | Hey | Apr 04 08:31 |
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| amarsh04 | hi schestowitz... just ordered and picked up a new pc... have yet to install anything on it | Apr 04 09:46 |
| schestowitz | What will you install? | Apr 04 09:47 |
| amarsh04 | Debian amd64 unstable | Apr 04 09:48 |
| PetoKraus | go arch | Apr 04 09:48 |
| PetoKraus | :P | Apr 04 09:48 |
| amarsh04 | a friend in .us has the same motherboard and reported no problems with it | Apr 04 09:48 |
| amarsh04 | the motherboard disk supposedly includes "expressgate" | Apr 04 09:49 |
| amarsh04 | salesperson at the computer store was wearing a ubuntu t-shirt (-: | Apr 04 09:50 |
| amarsh04 | I ordered it around noon, was told it would be ready mid-week and was called around 3pm to pick it up | Apr 04 09:52 |
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| PetoKraus | it's a slow day today, ain't it | Apr 04 11:19 |
| schestowitz | Analyst: YouTube Will Lose Almost $500 Million This Year < http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/... > | Apr 04 11:25 |
| schestowitz | Analyst: YouTube Will Lose Almost $500 Million This Year < http://www.paidcontent.org/entry/419-googl... >. Well, at least they'll stay alive this way. | Apr 04 11:26 |
| PetoKraus | i wish the'd die | Apr 04 11:31 |
| PetoKraus | it'd take down flash as well | Apr 04 11:31 |
| PetoKraus | well | Apr 04 11:31 |
| PetoKraus | i always forget they are google's | Apr 04 11:31 |
| oiaohm | The html 5 support for direct videos most likely will have to be considered by google. | Apr 04 11:35 |
| PetoKraus | well | Apr 04 11:35 |
| PetoKraus | it'd be no good for them | Apr 04 11:35 |
| oiaohm | That would cut youtubes bandwith usage. | Apr 04 11:35 |
| PetoKraus | well, maybe a bit | Apr 04 11:36 |
| oiaohm | Every little bit counts. | Apr 04 11:36 |
| PetoKraus | but you would be able to abstract the data from the page more easily | Apr 04 11:36 |
| oiaohm | Some videos on there are provided with download options already. | Apr 04 11:37 |
| oiaohm | So cutting out flash module to play and reduced download size of page. | Apr 04 11:37 |
| oiaohm | It would all add up. | Apr 04 11:37 |
| PetoKraus | well | Apr 04 11:38 |
| PetoKraus | what i think iw | Apr 04 11:38 |
| PetoKraus | *is | Apr 04 11:38 |
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| oiaohm | Silverlight has the same problem. | Apr 04 11:39 |
| oiaohm | Idea that bandwidth costs nothing is going to come back and effect the ideas of flash and silverlight. | Apr 04 11:40 |
| PetoKraus | it'd make it dead easy for other people to extract "video" tag only | Apr 04 11:40 |
| PetoKraus | and bypass all ads | Apr 04 11:41 |
| PetoKraus | that's what i was getting to | Apr 04 11:41 |
| PetoKraus | :) | Apr 04 11:41 |
| PetoKraus | i know there's youtube-dl now anyway | Apr 04 11:41 |
| oiaohm | Basically is not going to make a difference. | Apr 04 11:42 |
| oiaohm | Current deals by google is embeded advertising in the video stream. | Apr 04 11:43 |
| oiaohm | Ie the stuff you cannot just simply use something like miro to download stuff direct. | Apr 04 11:43 |
| oiaohm | And avoid ads. | Apr 04 11:43 |
| PetoKraus | yeah | Apr 04 11:43 |
| PetoKraus | that'd be good | Apr 04 11:43 |
| oiaohm | Basically youtube will be come freetv. | Apr 04 11:43 |
| PetoKraus | i'm too lazy to enable ads on pages i visit | Apr 04 11:44 |
| PetoKraus | like phoronix, for example | Apr 04 11:44 |
| schestowitz | Here is my last coverage of the TomTom case, for now: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0... | Apr 04 11:49 |
| oiaohm | Let the next wave begin. | Apr 04 11:50 |
| schestowitz | oiaohm: if YouTube supports Ogg they can embed ads in the videos | Apr 04 11:50 |
| schestowitz | Think about it: give people Ogg files, hard-code some ads or whatever to sponsor this | Apr 04 11:50 |
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| oiaohm | flv can be transcoded into Ogg without much trouble. | Apr 04 11:53 |
| PetoKraus | yeah | Apr 04 11:57 |
| PetoKraus | mplayer ;) | Apr 04 11:57 |
| schestowitz | I use ffmpeg | Apr 04 12:01 |
| schestowitz | ffmpeg2theora -p preview –sync video.flv | Apr 04 12:01 |
| oiaohm | Boy some strange and wacky things are starting to appear in linux kernel mailing list. x86 disasmbler built into kernel. | Apr 04 12:01 |
| schestowitz | WHat for? Kernel panic reports or something? | Apr 04 12:05 |
| oiaohm | Main kernel maintainers asking same question. | Apr 04 12:06 |
| oiaohm | Total desciption for patch is x86 disasmbler api for kernel. | Apr 04 12:07 |
| oiaohm | That is it no suggesting where it would be used or how. | Apr 04 12:07 |
| oiaohm | Yes wacky. | Apr 04 12:07 |
| oiaohm | Suppose had to start happening the list of items not merged is getting short. | Apr 04 12:08 |
| schestowitz | They should pass over KDE4 for Linus to merge into Linux, as well. | Apr 04 12:13 |
| schestowitz | You know how much Linus loves KDE4 (4.0)... they should mail him all the patches... which his pine client might choke on | Apr 04 12:14 |
| oiaohm | Most stuff on the not merged list that a kernel needs is the hard stuff to do. | Apr 04 12:15 |
| oiaohm | Like proper real time os support. | Apr 04 12:15 |
| oiaohm | I am finding it funny Lot of the people in Linux haters are trying to write Linux off as dead with no hope ever of getting desktop share. | Apr 04 12:44 |
| amarsh04 | I tried out the 2.6.26 code with realtime patch... the published stats for it were impressive | Apr 04 12:52 |
| oiaohm | So will be GEM with direct video card access for applications when it gets rolling. | Apr 04 13:01 |
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| MinceR | geekings | Apr 04 13:18 |
| PetoKraus | nice link from Glyn Moody there | Apr 04 13:20 |
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| schestowitz | PetoKraus: : which one? The "bad news"? | Apr 04 13:33 |
| PetoKraus | well, the google/microsoft one | Apr 04 13:35 |
| PetoKraus | you had it in news summary yesterday | Apr 04 13:35 |
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| schestowitz | Yes, I remember that. Microsoft loves also copyright for anything... unless it can misuse it. Right now it's busy with 'IPR' propaganda (against Google over content and Linux over code). | Apr 04 14:30 |
| PetoKraus | i might do some linux evangelism on next saturday | Apr 04 14:44 |
| PetoKraus | a customer told me he's interested in learning new things | Apr 04 14:44 |
| PetoKraus | we shall see how he likes it. | Apr 04 14:44 |
| schestowitz | Why is this man promoting MS 'pseudopen source' and Mono wares from former Microsofters..? http://arstechnica.com/software/news... | Apr 04 15:04 |
| schestowitz | Fedora 11 has a nice wallpaper, but the rest looks similar: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2... | Apr 04 15:06 |
| schestowitz | PetoKraus: promote something that does not contain Mono (e.g. Ubuntu) | Apr 04 15:07 |
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| Omar87 | Hi all. | Apr 04 15:09 |
| schestowitz | GNOME is 'pulling a KDE4': Gnome answers Linux critics with 'big' vision plan < http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/... > | Apr 04 15:09 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Hey. | Apr 04 15:10 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: How's going? | Apr 04 15:11 |
| Omar87 | How's *it* | Apr 04 15:11 |
| schestowitz | Yo, all it well | Apr 04 15:11 |
| schestowitz | Japan goes to the moon.. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/0... | Apr 04 15:11 |
| schestowitz | Linux taking just 1 watt: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/N... | Apr 04 15:16 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: see if you can vote for this one: http://www.fsdaily.com/Legal/Patents_Rou... | Apr 04 15:19 |
| schestowitz | iPhone 3.0 Beta Pwned! < http://www.itwire.com/content/... > | Apr 04 15:21 |
| schestowitz | Microblogging for activists? http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/-/1/hi/... (Twitter on the front line) | Apr 04 15:24 |
| Omar87 | schestowitz: Is it Jay Freeman again? | Apr 04 15:38 |
| schestowitz | I don't know :-( | Apr 04 15:39 |
| amarsh04 | I wouldn't mind 1 Watt Linux - could that run irssi and an ethernet port? (-: | Apr 04 15:39 |
| *amarsh04 notices the ethernet port on the I/O board of said device | Apr 04 15:42 | |
| Balrog_ | what about Jay Freeman.....? | Apr 04 16:10 |
| Balrog_ | the iPhone 3.0 beta? not this time. He's not doing the jailbreak, rather the installer | Apr 04 16:11 |
| Balrog_ | (apt clone) | Apr 04 16:11 |
| schestowitz | Isn't Apple going to crack down on him? | Apr 04 16:30 |
| PetoKraus | schestowitz: ofc | Apr 04 16:30 |
| schestowitz | It has history of doing some things like that before--going personal | Apr 04 16:30 |
| Balrog | so far they haven't. | Apr 04 16:31 |
| *schestowitz just spent like an hour on the phone... | Apr 04 16:31 | |
| schestowitz | Balrog: maybe they estimate PR damage | Apr 04 16:31 |
| Balrog | it would be in their best interest not to, I think. | Apr 04 16:31 |
| schestowitz | Luckily, a lot of people give them flak when they do this | Apr 04 16:32 |
| Balrog_ | (yes, mainly because it would be a PR nightmare) | Apr 04 16:32 |
| schestowitz | Google too. People no longer buy the "do no evil" defense" so cheaply | Apr 04 16:32 |
| schestowitz | IIRC, Google's value now exceeds that of IBM. It's no longer little cuddly Google... | Apr 04 16:32 |
| schestowitz | Or poor Apple whose business is at Microsoft's mercy.. | Apr 04 16:33 |
| schestowitz | The PR nightmare situations prevent many things, such as SCO bullying PJ, Novell demanding that BN removes mentioning of their trademarks, etc. | Apr 04 16:33 |
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| Omar87 | lol! | Apr 04 16:55 |
| Omar87 | A couple of days ago when I told a .NET and M$ fanboi at my college that I use Python he said: "Oh, but Python has died a long time ago!".. :D | Apr 04 16:56 |
| Omar87 | What a pathetic ignorant. :) | Apr 04 16:57 |
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| _Hicham_ | Hi Roy! | Apr 04 18:14 |
| _Hicham_ | how r u doing? | Apr 04 18:14 |
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| PetoKraus | Omar87: yeah, that's why i'm not studying CS anymore | Apr 04 18:32 |
| PetoKraus | full of ignorants | Apr 04 18:32 |
| schestowitz | I'm back | Apr 04 18:33 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: tell your friend about that 'deal' company called Google, which uses Python very extensively for a lot of its operations | Apr 04 18:34 |
| schestowitz | /s/deal/dead/ | Apr 04 18:34 |
| _Hicham_ | were u at the gym? | Apr 04 18:35 |
| schestowitz | If Python is dead, then Google must have missed the memo. http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/charts/... Watch how it jumped this year | Apr 04 18:37 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: yes | Apr 04 18:37 |
| schestowitz | Omar87: the chart shows demand for Python skills in the UK. | Apr 04 18:38 |
| _Hicham_ | Google is emotionally related to Python | Apr 04 18:38 |
| _Hicham_ | Google loves Python | Apr 04 18:38 |
| schestowitz | Python generates IRC logs for #boytcottnovell | Apr 04 18:39 |
| schestowitz | This is days old: http://techczar.wordpress.com/2009/03/29/... | Apr 04 18:39 |
| schestowitz | Google searches for holy grail of Python performance: http://arstechnica.com/open-source/n... | Apr 04 18:39 |
| schestowitz | Recent: Python Fans Take Aim at the Enterprise < http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.p... > | Apr 04 18:40 |
| _Hicham_ | Python can beat Java easily | Apr 04 18:40 |
| schestowitz | The Evolution of Python 3 < http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2009/01/th... > Python >> MSFT. It will eat it for the FUD its boosters are spreading. | Apr 04 18:40 |
| _Hicham_ | Bruce Eckel himself loves Python | Apr 04 18:40 |
| schestowitz | Let Ballmer mock Google | Apr 04 18:41 |
| schestowitz | With his .NET drek :-) Python continues to devour Microsoft's market share. | Apr 04 18:41 |
| _Hicham_ | there is a Python Plugin for Visual Studio | Apr 04 18:41 |
| schestowitz | _Hicham_: Java and Python are different | Apr 04 18:41 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : how? | Apr 04 18:41 |
| schestowitz | For scripting and processing that's simple Java is less suitable | Apr 04 18:41 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft is trying to devour Python using .NET garbage | Apr 04 18:42 |
| schestowitz | Sun try JPython. | Apr 04 18:42 |
| schestowitz | *tried | Apr 04 18:42 |
| _Hicham_ | Python can do whatever Java can do | Apr 04 18:42 |
| _Hicham_ | in less code | Apr 04 18:42 |
| _Hicham_ | and easily | Apr 04 18:42 |
| _Hicham_ | It is just a marketing issue | Apr 04 18:43 |
| schestowitz | I'm not sure | Apr 04 18:43 |
| schestowitz | VMs in Python? | Apr 04 18:43 |
| schestowitz | How about building with reusable objects? Python is not OOP unless there some variant of it which I doubt | Apr 04 18:44 |
| _Hicham_ | Python is OOP | Apr 04 18:44 |
| _Hicham_ | u can reuse everything | Apr 04 18:44 |
| schestowitz | http://ostatic.com/blog/as-rumors-swirl-ab... -< Apparently it's just an ad deal | Apr 04 18:45 |
| schestowitz | I thought of it as imperative | Apr 04 18:48 |
| schestowitz | But you're right, it's object oriented to | Apr 04 18:48 |
| schestowitz | It's multi-paradigm | Apr 04 18:48 |
| Omar87 | PetoKraus: So are you not sutdying CS? | Apr 04 18:48 |
| PetoKraus | Omar87: chemistry | Apr 04 18:49 |
| schestowitz | But I'm used to seeing it parsing stuff | Apr 04 18:49 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : u under-estimated Python | Apr 04 18:49 |
| _Hicham_ | Python API is more powerful than Java's | Apr 04 18:49 |
| _Hicham_ | and remember, Python, is less code than Java | Apr 04 18:50 |
| schestowitz | That I know | Apr 04 18:50 |
| schestowitz | But... | Apr 04 18:50 |
| schestowitz | It seems to me like new programmers are taught Java for simplicity | Apr 04 18:51 |
| _Hicham_ | Java is not simple | Apr 04 18:51 |
| _Hicham_ | it is very complicated compared to Python | Apr 04 18:51 |
| Omar87 | _Hicham_: At least not as simple as Python. | Apr 04 18:51 |
| Omar87 | _Hicham_: Exactly. :) | Apr 04 18:52 |
| _Hicham_ | to open a file, u need at least ten lines of code | Apr 04 18:52 |
| _Hicham_ | while in Python, it is one line | Apr 04 18:52 |
| balzac | don't forget, python is the language of choice for blender and gimp | Apr 04 18:52 |
| balzac | scripting language | Apr 04 18:52 |
| _Hicham_ | yes | Apr 04 18:52 |
| Omar87 | ;) | Apr 04 18:52 |
| _Hicham_ | and plugins too | Apr 04 18:52 |
| benJIman | And thanks to ironpython you can run it on .net. | Apr 04 18:52 |
| _Hicham_ | Gnome uses it extensively | Apr 04 18:52 |
| balzac | gnome is looking better to me lately | Apr 04 18:53 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : we are even with MS | Apr 04 18:53 |
| _Hicham_ | they want us to do .NET, and we want them to do Python | Apr 04 18:53 |
| balzac | finding the emacs key-bindings already supported for default gnome text window behavior was nice | Apr 04 18:53 |
| Omar87 | _Hicham_: About a month ago, a friend of mine challenged me that Python can handle extensive Video streaming for a large website as good as Java. :) | Apr 04 18:53 |
| balzac | but mono really has to go | Apr 04 18:53 |
| Omar87 | can't* | Apr 04 18:54 |
| _Hicham_ | Omar87: personally, I find Java less attracting | Apr 04 18:54 |
| _Hicham_ | though I used it a lot | Apr 04 18:54 |
| Omar87 | _Hicham_: Same here. | Apr 04 18:54 |
| schestowitz | mono is about containing devs in .nyet | Apr 04 18:54 |
| Omar87 | _Hicham_: But I've never really used it before.. | Apr 04 18:55 |
| schestowitz | bridge wo windows | Apr 04 18:55 |
| _Hicham_ | schestowitz : we have to release a Python Plugin for MonoDevelop | Apr 04 18:55 |
| _Hicham_ | that way we will be even | Apr 04 18:55 |
| _Hicham_ | we won't have to worry | Apr 04 18:55 |
| benJIman | Monodevelop already has good support for ironpython. | Apr 04 18:56 |
| _Hicham_ | great | Apr 04 18:56 |
| schestowitz | brb | Apr 04 18:59 |
| _Hicham_ | ok | Apr 04 18:59 |
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| _Hicham_ | balzac : u just woke up? | Apr 04 18:59 |
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| _Hicham_ | there is a free python book available in Debian repos : sudo apt-get install diveintopython | Apr 04 19:00 |
| balzac | no, just got to the office | Apr 04 19:02 |
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| balzac | I live at my office, practically | Apr 04 19:03 |
| balzac | I need to do something about my income | Apr 04 19:03 |
| balzac | who needs to get waterboarded? | Apr 04 19:05 |
| balzac | let's "aggressively interrogate" bush and cheney and find their swiss bank account digits | Apr 04 19:05 |
| balzac | I need some money, my favorite strippers have bills to pay | Apr 04 19:05 |
| balzac | Let's waterboard Rupert Murdoch | Apr 04 19:07 |
| balzac | And feed Rush Limbaugh to hungry polar bears | Apr 04 19:07 |
| balzac | come on! | Apr 04 19:07 |
| balzac | sorry, this belongs #politics | Apr 04 19:07 |
| balzac | </rant> | Apr 04 19:08 |
| PetoKraus | oh man | Apr 04 19:08 |
| PetoKraus | berlusconi ++ | Apr 04 19:08 |
| balzac | he had a thought? | Apr 04 19:08 |
| PetoKraus | he is amazing | Apr 04 19:08 |
| PetoKraus | Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has provoked criticism for describing Barack Obama as "young, handsome, and tanned". | Apr 04 19:08 |
| balzac | he's a buffoon, but apparently he did something decent? | Apr 04 19:08 |
| PetoKraus | Responding to a reporter's suggestion that the remark might be misunderstood, he accused his opponents of not having a sense of humour. | Apr 04 19:08 |
| PetoKraus | ''God save us from imbeciles,'' he added. | Apr 04 19:08 |
| _Hicham_ | balzac : Bill Gates is still the Richest | Apr 04 19:09 |
| balzac | _Hicham_: Bill Gates is way down the list of trouble makers | Apr 04 19:09 |
| balzac | but I want his market-share and revenue | Apr 04 19:09 |
| PetoKraus | i'd love to have such a politician in our country | Apr 04 19:09 |
| MinceR | i want him to repay the damage he has caused (by running a generator or something) | Apr 04 19:10 |
| MinceR | i want his assets to be taken from him | Apr 04 19:10 |
| MinceR | and i want him dead | Apr 04 19:10 |
| _Hicham_ | If u get his market share, u will practically fuck all america | Apr 04 19:10 |
| _Hicham_ | u can get any stripper | Apr 04 19:10 |
| *balzac sets mode +b Mincer | Apr 04 19:10 | |
| MinceR | now you show your true colors | Apr 04 19:11 |
| balzac | MinceR: don't be a bitch | Apr 04 19:11 |
| balzac | angstivist bitchassedness | Apr 04 19:11 |
| balzac | Wishing death on Bill Gates is pure "angstivism". | Apr 04 19:12 |
| balzac | completely useless | Apr 04 19:12 |
| MinceR | balzac: yes, being assured that he can't cause any more harm is certainly useless | Apr 04 19:12 |
| balzac | in fact, worse than useless, and it negates the value of everything good you've ever said if you stand by such an outrageous comment | Apr 04 19:12 |
| MinceR | i'm sorry i've offended your favorite criminal | Apr 04 19:13 |
| MinceR | (or perhaps second favorite, right behind steve jobs) | Apr 04 19:13 |
| balzac | my favorite criminal may be Madoff | Apr 04 19:13 |
| balzac | but Bill Gates is not nearly as bad as Bush | Apr 04 19:13 |
| balzac | Some angstivist at a political meeting this weekend compared Mayor Bloomberg to Hitler | Apr 04 19:14 |
| balzac | And called him the worst mayor ever | Apr 04 19:14 |
| balzac | I said it was bulls___ | Apr 04 19:14 |
| balzac | Guliani was worse | Apr 04 19:15 |
| schestowitz | balzac: so if you pull a gal, you take her to the 'office' (practically)? | Apr 04 19:15 |
| balzac | schestowitz: cleaner and nicer than my place | Apr 04 19:15 |
| schestowitz | Before or after? | Apr 04 19:15 |
| schestowitz | :- | Apr 04 19:16 |
| PetoKraus | touche :P | Apr 04 19:16 |
| balzac | I haven't had a girl since me and my last gf broke up | Apr 04 19:16 |
| schestowitz | I guess it's like RMS | Apr 04 19:16 |
| balzac | since then, only strip clubs and a massage parlour - no happy ending | Apr 04 19:16 |
| schestowitz | Just don't grow a beard | Apr 04 19:16 |
| schestowitz | RMS lived in his office for many years | Apr 04 19:16 |
| balzac | just not a long one | Apr 04 19:16 |
| schestowitz | Actually, many Microsoft employees lived in their office | Apr 04 19:17 |
| schestowitz | Same with Turbolinux | Apr 04 19:17 |
| schestowitz | Sleeping in front of their desk or something | Apr 04 19:17 |
| MinceR | balzac: oh, if someone isn't as bad as bush, he must be a saint | Apr 04 19:17 |
| MinceR | after all, bush is a saint, isn't he? | Apr 04 19:17 |
| schestowitz | :-) | Apr 04 19:17 |
| balzac | MinceR: why don't you go ahead and wish death on someone scarier than Bill Gates? | Apr 04 19:17 |
| schestowitz | Saint like holy sh*t | Apr 04 19:17 |
| balzac | How about... Dick Cheney? | Apr 04 19:18 |
| MinceR | balzac: in case you didn't notice, we were discussing bill gates, not "someone scarier" | Apr 04 19:18 |
| balzac | do you wish he were dead? | Apr 04 19:18 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: Dick Cheney will self desrtruct anyway | Apr 04 19:18 |
| schestowitz | He has a weak heart | Apr 04 19:18 |
| MinceR | i don't know his crimes so well, but i think i would | Apr 04 19:18 |
| balzac | Bush? | Apr 04 19:18 |
| MinceR | same thing | Apr 04 19:19 |
| schestowitz | Is it either OR? | Apr 04 19:19 |
| balzac | dude, you live under a rock, apparently | Apr 04 19:19 |
| MinceR | if so, please tell me what you know about hungarian politics | Apr 04 19:19 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: Cheney robbed America | Apr 04 19:19 |
| schestowitz | He used the invasion to pass money to his former company | Apr 04 19:19 |
| MinceR | then i'll hear your opinion about living under rocks and such things. | Apr 04 19:19 |
| balzac | MinceR: I admire the guy who threw the eggs at Ballmer | Apr 04 19:19 |
| PetoKraus | balzac: you know, the US is not the center of the world | Apr 04 19:19 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: in the US, World=USA | Apr 04 19:19 |
| MinceR | balzac: i see how well you know what's going on in another country | Apr 04 19:20 |
| balzac | I can tell you that I've enjoyed both sides of the river, Buda and Pest | Apr 04 19:20 |
| schestowitz | And Palin was wrongly accused of thinking Africa was a nation | Apr 04 19:20 |
| PetoKraus | well | Apr 04 19:20 |
| balzac | the coat I've for a couple years, been wearing I bought there | Apr 04 19:20 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: yes, i know | Apr 04 19:20 |
| MinceR | usians are full of themselves | Apr 04 19:20 |
| MinceR | and their fucking joke of a country | Apr 04 19:20 |
| PetoKraus | hehe | Apr 04 19:20 |
| PetoKraus | tanned president takes the lead | Apr 04 19:20 |
| PetoKraus | :P | Apr 04 19:20 |
| MinceR | and appreciating freedom only in name, not in practice | Apr 04 19:20 |
| schestowitz | PetoKraus: he said this in Italian right? | Apr 04 19:21 |
| PetoKraus | yeah | Apr 04 19:21 |
| MinceR | and pushing their newest policies on the rest of the world | Apr 04 19:21 |
| PetoKraus | but that guy | Apr 04 19:21 |
| schestowitz | How does that TRNSLATE? | Apr 04 19:21 |
| PetoKraus | no idea | Apr 04 19:21 |
| schestowitz | I bet it's exaggerated | Apr 04 19:21 |
| MinceR | (policies that were bought by megacorps in the usa) | Apr 04 19:21 |
| PetoKraus | schestowitz: i don't | Apr 04 19:21 |
| schestowitz | And you must listen to tone | Apr 04 19:21 |
| PetoKraus | it's berlusconi | Apr 04 19:21 |
| PetoKraus | he's got balls | Apr 04 19:21 |
| schestowitz | He could say this jokingly to Obama's face | Apr 04 19:21 |
| MinceR | even if he's got balls, he's probably just another crook | Apr 04 19:21 |
| schestowitz | That would be folksy... like Yeltsin and Clinton. | Apr 04 19:22 |
| schestowitz | berlusconi is an arsgole | Apr 04 19:22 |
| schestowitz | *hole | Apr 04 19:22 |
| schestowitz | Check what he does on Intellectual Monopolies | Apr 04 19:22 |
| balzac | yeah, let Berlusconi talk about Obama's "tan" with him | Apr 04 19:22 |
| balzac | heheh | Apr 04 19:22 |
| schestowitz | Some sort of neo-facsism | Apr 04 19:22 |
| PetoKraus | and what | Apr 04 19:22 |
| schestowitz | *fascism | Apr 04 19:22 |
| balzac | Berlusconi is a classic douche-bag | Apr 04 19:23 |
| PetoKraus | hehe | Apr 04 19:23 |
| schestowitz | And they have corrupt procurement there, favouring PearlyG and ilk. | Apr 04 19:23 |
| PetoKraus | i disagree | Apr 04 19:23 |
| PetoKraus | he's got a style | Apr 04 19:23 |
| PetoKraus | he's designer bag! | Apr 04 19:23 |
| balzac | heheh | Apr 04 19:23 |
| schestowitz | Berlusconi is Sarko's twin | Apr 04 19:23 |
| schestowitz | Separated at birth | Apr 04 19:23 |
| balzac | the skin of a designer bag | Apr 04 19:23 |
| schestowitz | Still connected by the mind | Apr 04 19:23 |
| schestowitz | Sharing the same neurons, apparently | Apr 04 19:23 |
| balzac | MinceR: when was the last time you spent money on a hooker? | Apr 04 19:24 |
| PetoKraus | it doesn't matter | Apr 04 19:24 |
| PetoKraus | the neurons | Apr 04 19:24 |
| PetoKraus | not the hoooker | Apr 04 19:24 |
| PetoKraus | :P | Apr 04 19:24 |
| schestowitz | Consumer Interest Groups Ask Obama To Stop Appointing RIAA Lawyers < http://www.techdirt.com/articles/200... > | Apr 04 19:24 |
| PetoKraus | yeah, i read that | Apr 04 19:24 |
| PetoKraus | wankers. | Apr 04 19:24 |
| schestowitz | PetoKraus: maybe to both | Apr 04 19:24 |
| schestowitz | Biden and the MAFIAA | Apr 04 19:24 |
| schestowitz | Dick Tracy Junior | Apr 04 19:25 |
| MinceR | balzac: i didn't | Apr 04 19:25 |
| balzac | MinceR: I'm recommending you find a whore, because you've got way too much angst to effective as an activist. | Apr 04 19:25 |
| PetoKraus | hmm | Apr 04 19:25 |
| MinceR | balzac: why don't you go back to your microsoft and apple fanboy friends and hug them? | Apr 04 19:25 |
| balzac | I'm not even an activist anymore | Apr 04 19:25 |
| MinceR | no, you're just a pathetic fanboy | Apr 04 19:25 |
| PetoKraus | oh god | Apr 04 19:25 |
| PetoKraus | since when are hookers relevant measure? | Apr 04 19:26 |
| PetoKraus | of anything | Apr 04 19:26 |
| MinceR | PetoKraus: it's the warped mind of a fanboy. | Apr 04 19:26 |
| PetoKraus | no | Apr 04 19:26 |
| PetoKraus | it's called | Apr 04 19:26 |
| PetoKraus | retardation | Apr 04 19:26 |
| MinceR | you never know what you're going to find. | Apr 04 19:26 |
| balzac | MinceR: you're what is called a WATB in the "blogging" community | Apr 04 19:26 |
| MinceR | same thing | Apr 04 19:26 |
| MinceR | i was more specific, though | Apr 04 19:26 |
| balzac | Whiney-Assed Titty Baby | Apr 04 19:26 |
| PetoKraus | balzac: just tell me you're "tanned" as well | Apr 04 19:26 |
| PetoKraus | :P | Apr 04 19:26 |
| MinceR | balzac: i don't care what labels you can apply to me | Apr 04 19:26 |
| MinceR | balzac: nobody gives a fuck about your opinion. | Apr 04 19:26 |
| balzac | MinceR: let's not make this too personal | Apr 04 19:27 |
| MinceR | balzac: oh, now you don't want to make it personal | Apr 04 19:27 |
| balzac | I had to issue you a citation for "angstivism" | Apr 04 19:27 |
| MinceR | after making it personal? | Apr 04 19:27 |
| balzac | Actually, yes, let's make it more personal | Apr 04 19:27 |
| MinceR | or perhaps you think that you should talk shit and everyone else should just listen and applaud? | Apr 04 19:27 |
| MinceR | go fuck yourself. | Apr 04 19:27 |
| balzac | MinceR: do you know who I am? | Apr 04 19:27 |
| balzac | Paul Gaskin | Apr 04 19:28 |
| PetoKraus | and? | Apr 04 19:28 |
| balzac | who are you? | Apr 04 19:28 |
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| PetoKraus | why should you care? | Apr 04 19:28 |
| balzac | because he's wishing violence or harm on Bill Gates every so often | Apr 04 19:28 |
| balzac | as far as I know, he could be a troll from Novell | Apr 04 19:28 |
| PetoKraus | yeah | Apr 04 19:28 |
| PetoKraus | an american lawyer is going to sue him | Apr 04 19:29 |
| PetoKraus | you know | Apr 04 19:29 |
| PetoKraus | hungary is not a part of the US either | Apr 04 19:29 |
| PetoKraus | ... | Apr 04 19:29 |
| balzac | he is like the guy at the back of the crowd who throws a bottle | Apr 04 19:29 |
| PetoKraus | i thought you realised that when you tried to sue the Swedes | Apr 04 19:29 |
| DaemonFC | if you have corrupted politicians, your problem is not Microsoft | Apr 04 19:29 |
| balzac | So, Mincer - what is it you're willing to say under your given name? | Apr 04 19:30 |
| DaemonFC | Microsoft is one of the symptoms | Apr 04 19:30 |
| DaemonFC | :) | Apr 04 19:30 |
| balzac | Come one now... | Apr 04 19:30 |
| balzac | come on... | Apr 04 19:30 |
| schestowitz | FRAUD: Take-Two Interactive Software settles SEC suit < http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-... > Microsoft, Apple and Novell may have done the same thing. | Apr 04 19:30 |
| balzac | no "bitchassedness" | Apr 04 19:30 |
| DaemonFC | Throw them out, replace them with politicians that won't be bought by Microsoft | Apr 04 19:30 |
| DaemonFC | problem solved | Apr 04 19:31 |
| balzac | the guy who threw the eggs at steve ballmer represents Hungary quite well | Apr 04 19:31 |
| balzac | he threw eggs | Apr 04 19:31 |
| balzac | he didn't wish death | Apr 04 19:31 |
| DaemonFC | what? He represents a bunch of childish pranksters who refuse to strike at the root of the problem? | Apr 04 19:31 |
| DaemonFC | that's not saying much for Hungary | Apr 04 19:31 |
| PetoKraus | well | Apr 04 19:32 |
| balzac | well, Mincer just went away to cry, I suppose | Apr 04 19:32 |
| PetoKraus | i don't think you know what are you talking about | Apr 04 19:32 |
| PetoKraus | but after all | Apr 04 19:32 |
| PetoKraus | you've got an MA | Apr 04 19:32 |
| PetoKraus | ... | Apr 04 19:32 |
| PetoKraus | :P | Apr 04 19:32 |
| DaemonFC | Throwing eggs really solved the problem, Hungary will stop peddling Microsoft now....oh wait, it hasn't | Apr 04 19:32 |
| balzac | Mincer, type something so we know you're not crying | Apr 04 19:32 |
| schestowitz | The issues of Microsoft corruption in Hungary came up | Apr 04 19:33 |
| schestowitz | It was in the media | Apr 04 19:33 |
| schestowitz | Eggs were merely a catalyst | Apr 04 19:34 |
| DaemonFC | right | Apr 04 19:34 |
| DaemonFC | the guy made an ass out of himself | Apr 04 19:34 |
| schestowitz | It was captured from tweo cameras | Apr 04 19:34 |
| DaemonFC | and nobody in their right mind will take him seriously | Apr 04 19:34 |
| schestowitz | Before they rewarded the criminal with a special honour | Apr 04 19:34 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: not him, others | Apr 04 19:34 |
| schestowitz | The guy who checked eggs encouraged investigation | Apr 04 19:35 |
| schestowitz | Some people did that | Apr 04 19:35 |
| schestowitz | They spoke independently of him | Apr 04 19:35 |
| DaemonFC | The guy that threw a shoe at George W. Bush made me laugh, I hate Bush, but it didn't fix any of the stuff that Bush fucked up | Apr 04 19:35 |
| DaemonFC | did it? | Apr 04 19:35 |
| schestowitz | Murdoch Accuses Google/Yahoo of Copyright Theft < http://industry.bnet.com/media/1... > | Apr 04 19:36 |
| schestowitz | DaemonFC: what would you propose instead/ | Apr 04 19:36 |
| DaemonFC | at that point, even shooting him wouldn't have solved anything though | Apr 04 19:36 |
| schestowitz | That was a relatively friendly (symbolicc) protest | Apr 04 19:36 |
| schestowitz | Not peaceful | Apr 04 19:36 |
| schestowitz | But not corporal | Apr 04 19:36 |
| schestowitz | Earlier today I watched on television the riots in Germany | Apr 04 19:37 |
| schestowitz | Over the Afghanistan convoy | Apr 04 19:37 |
| DaemonFC | We live in a fairly perverse world, bad things happen and the maqjority of people are pretty stupid | Apr 04 19:37 |
| schestowitz | I reckon they use the 'election' as an excuse to send more troops | Apr 04 19:37 |
| DaemonFC | the politicians play at the stupidity of the majority | Apr 04 19:37 |
| DaemonFC | and when they get in | Apr 04 19:37 |
| DaemonFC | they execute the will of a minority | Apr 04 19:37 |
| schestowitz | Also, One can be sure that they are there to ensure people vote the 'right way' | Apr 04 19:37 |
| schestowitz | Otherwise they'll get punished somehow (e.g. strangulation) until they vote 'correctly' | Apr 04 19:38 |
| schestowitz | This was done a lot in South America | Apr 04 19:38 |
| DaemonFC | it's a secret ballot election | Apr 04 19:38 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Apr 04 19:38 |
| schestowitz | Secret as in "Secret services"? | Apr 04 19:38 |
| schestowitz | j/k | Apr 04 19:38 |
| DaemonFC | Some peoples hatred of the United States goes way beyond any possible explanation | Apr 04 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | and they act like their government isn't fucking shit up proportional to their size and relative influence in the world | Apr 04 19:39 |
| DaemonFC | cause I guarantee it is | Apr 04 19:40 |
| schestowitz | Latest attack on the Internet: Senate Committee Ponders Cyber Security Bill < http://tech.yahoo.com/news/nf/2... > | Apr 04 19:40 |
| schestowitz | It's not a US problem | Apr 04 19:40 |
| DaemonFC | But I think the US just makes a bogeyman for their particular fuck ups | Apr 04 19:40 |
| DaemonFC | easier to point the finger | Apr 04 19:40 |
| schestowitz | I have nothing against the US and I have family there | Apr 04 19:40 |
| schestowitz | the US!presidency | Apr 04 19:40 |
| schestowitz | The country is not its authority | Apr 04 19:41 |
| schestowitz | And there is great disparity between people and the elite that tames them | Apr 04 19:41 |
| schestowitz | So to blame a 'country' is a weird thing to do because the population rarely has much to do with policies | Apr 04 19:41 |
| schestowitz | Lots of examples re: healthcare, finance, patents, military | Apr 04 19:42 |
| DaemonFC | My tax money pays for the bombs dropped on Iraq. If I don't pay taxes I go to prison for a long time. | Apr 04 19:42 |
| schestowitz | The "US" (mostly some companies there) is mostly a scapegoat | Apr 04 19:42 |
| DaemonFC | I have been coerced into paying for this against my conscience. | Apr 04 19:42 |
| schestowitz | That's the power of a consent system, and it is the reason it is massively effective | Apr 04 19:43 |
| balzac | There's a very strong case for not paying taxes | Apr 04 19:43 |
| schestowitz | A system that daemonises morality | Apr 04 19:43 |
| DaemonFC | The system has run amok and they use those resources to hold anyone that objects to what they edo hostage. | Apr 04 19:43 |
| balzac | luckily, most of my earnings were 1099 | Apr 04 19:43 |
| balzac | so I didn't pay much yet. | Apr 04 19:43 |
| DaemonFC | They put those funds into welfare and public projects so that on some level you depend on the system that is fucking you over | Apr 04 19:44 |
| DaemonFC | B-) | Apr 04 19:44 |
| MinceR | balzac: die in a fire, retard. | Apr 04 19:46 |
| DaemonFC | The argument between the Republicans and Democrats is not whether to put tax money into wasteful public spending and welfare | Apr 04 19:46 |
| DaemonFC | it's how to waste it | Apr 04 19:46 |
| balzac | MinceR: you hate retards? | Apr 04 19:50 |
| balzac | you're a real hater | Apr 04 19:50 |
| balzac | what's your f___ing name? | Apr 04 19:50 |
| MinceR | balzac: yes, i hate your kind | Apr 04 19:50 |
| MinceR | of retard | Apr 04 19:51 |
| MinceR | i don't have a "f___ing name", and other kinds of names are none of your business. | Apr 04 19:51 |
| balzac | what is my kind? the kind who doesn't hide behind a pseudonym? | Apr 04 19:51 |
| MinceR | also, you're cluttering the channel with your trolling, so quit it | Apr 04 19:51 |
| balzac | you're accusing me of trolling? | Apr 04 19:51 |
| MinceR | indeed | Apr 04 19:51 |
| balzac | MinceR: let's hear from you | Apr 04 19:52 |
| balzac | I'll write less and give you space | Apr 04 19:52 |
| balzac | I've got work to do today | Apr 04 19:52 |
| MinceR | why only me? | Apr 04 19:52 |
| MinceR | do you believe this channel belongs to the two of us? | Apr 04 19:52 |
| balzac | because you're the one who is unknown | Apr 04 19:52 |
| MinceR | fuck you. | Apr 04 19:53 |
| balzac | no. fuck yourself. | Apr 04 19:53 |
| balzac | now go ahead as if I'm not here | Apr 04 19:54 |
| balzac | -_- | Apr 04 19:54 |
| MinceR | perhaps your friends in kindergarten find that comeback snappy. i don't. | Apr 04 19:54 |
| balzac | nevermind me, Mincer | Apr 04 19:54 |
| MinceR | now go ahead as if you weren't here. | Apr 04 19:54 |
| balzac | let's hear your opinions about anything except for me | Apr 04 19:55 |
| PetoKraus | schestowitz: how's the weather down in manchaster? | Apr 04 19:55 |
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| schestowitz | PetoKraus: nice here. | Apr 04 20:02 |
| PetoKraus | we had almost tanning weather two days ago | Apr 04 20:03 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: balzac is with the Good Team | Apr 04 20:04 |
| MinceR | he's concealing that very well | Apr 04 20:04 |
| schestowitz | Why bark up the wrong tree? Because balzac wants Bush punished before Gates? | Apr 04 20:04 |
| schestowitz | They can take turns | Apr 04 20:04 |
| MinceR | that's not what he said | Apr 04 20:04 |
| schestowitz | I agree with balzac . Bush should go first | Apr 04 20:04 |
| MinceR | he said that gates shouldn't be punished because bush and cheney should | Apr 04 20:05 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: no, he's in other sites too. He's strongly pro-FS | Apr 04 20:05 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: true | Apr 04 20:05 |
| MinceR | well, he said what he said | Apr 04 20:05 |
| schestowitz | Them first | Apr 04 20:05 |
| schestowitz | More urgent | Apr 04 20:05 |
| schestowitz | Where life was at stake | Apr 04 20:05 |
| MinceR | i didn't say bush and cheney shouldn't be punished | Apr 04 20:05 |
| schestowitz | Bush kills people only with bad engineering | Apr 04 20:05 |
| schestowitz | Like hospitals becoming botnets | Apr 04 20:05 |
| MinceR | you mean gates | Apr 04 20:06 |
| balzac | also, 100 members of our congress should be criminally prosecuted before Gates | Apr 04 20:06 |
| schestowitz | Apart from that, he ruins families' lives | Apr 04 20:06 |
| MinceR | :) | Apr 04 20:06 |
| schestowitz | By criminally destorying companies like Netscape | Apr 04 20:06 |
| MinceR | i don't think we need a waiting list for this | Apr 04 20:06 |
| schestowitz | And then he funnels this into his Rockefeller-esque scam to make even more money | Apr 04 20:06 |
| balzac | civil suits make more sense against M$ | Apr 04 20:07 |
| schestowitz | balzac: they owned the judge | Apr 04 20:07 |
| schestowitz | Jackson called them "Criminals" | Apr 04 20:07 |
| schestowitz | Guess what they did? | Apr 04 20:07 |
| schestowitz | (to him) | Apr 04 20:07 |
| balzac | Roy, i'm not on the "Good Team" anymore. I recently veered sharply toward "evil". | Apr 04 20:07 |
| schestowitz | What type of evil? | Apr 04 20:08 |
| balzac | no more activism, now entrepreneurialism | Apr 04 20:08 |
| schestowitz | The whole pimp trash? | Apr 04 20:08 |
| schestowitz | entrepreneurialism = big word, no substance | Apr 04 20:08 |
| schestowitz | Like the isms | Apr 04 20:08 |
| balzac | I want money | Apr 04 20:08 |
| schestowitz | It's the means for achieving goals | Apr 04 20:09 |
| schestowitz | Not the goal, not the end | Apr 04 20:09 |
| schestowitz | We all hhumans are the same | Apr 04 20:09 |
| schestowitz | We share the same fate, without exception | Apr 04 20:09 |
| balzac | cam-girls are not whores, so bringing free software and free media codecs for cam-girls (and whoever else), is not any kind of pimping | Apr 04 20:09 |
| schestowitz | You can't take money into the grave. Well, technically you can, but you know what i mean... | Apr 04 20:09 |
| *_Hicham_ has quit ("Leaving.") | Apr 04 20:09 | |
| *tessier has quit ("leaving") | Apr 04 20:09 | |
| balzac | but I wrote on change.gov that prostitution should be decriminalized, even though I'm not interested in that business as an employer, but only as a customer | Apr 04 20:10 |
| schestowitz | balzac: don't create conditions for girls to sell themselves | Apr 04 20:10 |
| MinceR | so that's why you keep talking about it | Apr 04 20:10 |
| schestowitz | That's morally wrong | Apr 04 20:10 |
| schestowitz | Remove the conditions under which objectification is needed | Apr 04 20:10 |
| balzac | schestowitz: unregulated capitalism creates desperation - that is the bigger problem. | Apr 04 20:11 |
| schestowitz | Women activists worked really hard to abolish sexism.. and being treated liek tools | Apr 04 20:11 |
| MinceR | i suspect that objectivication comes from a source you can't regulate with laws | Apr 04 20:11 |
| schestowitz | Don't misplace activism of one kind to promote abolishment of another type | Apr 04 20:11 |
| balzac | there is such a thing as the possibility of ethical transactions of sex for money | Apr 04 20:11 |
| MinceR | (people's way of thinking, sexism, lack of egalitarianism) | Apr 04 20:11 |
| schestowitz | balzac: why change the subject? | Apr 04 20:11 |
| MinceR | s/ivi/ifi/ | Apr 04 20:11 |
| balzac | what is the subject you had in mind? | Apr 04 20:12 |
| schestowitz | "transactions of sex for money" WTF?? | Apr 04 20:12 |
| balzac | <@schestowitz> balzac: don't create conditions for girls to sell themselves | Apr 04 20:12 |
| schestowitz | Yes, offer them decent jobs | Apr 04 20:12 |
| schestowitz | Not conditions under which money is made indecently. | Apr 04 20:13 |
| balzac | well, they should be free to sell their sexual services too, if they're of the age of legal consent. | Apr 04 20:13 |
| schestowitz | You could make a flawed argument | Apr 04 20:13 |
| schestowitz | Like... if a kid is hungry in the street and you can abuse him for food, does that make it ethical? Because he was hungry? | Apr 04 20:13 |
| schestowitz | The solution is in removal oif the conditions under which this is needed | Apr 04 20:13 |
| schestowitz | Another example would involve war | Apr 04 20:14 |
| balzac | kid? (no legal consent) him? (i don't swing that way). | Apr 04 20:14 |
| balzac | you're changing the subject now | Apr 04 20:14 |
| schestowitz | Some troops face commands to kill or be jailed (or --at worse--lynching) | Apr 04 20:14 |
| schestowitz | balzac: same subject, different severity | Apr 04 20:14 |
| schestowitz | Or different type of victim | Apr 04 20:14 |
| balzac | roy, you're really moving the goal posts around | Apr 04 20:14 |
| schestowitz | Predatory it is to sway people towards something they don't want thtough strangulation | Apr 04 20:15 |
| schestowitz | You could torture a person to the point of false admission | Apr 04 20:15 |
| schestowitz | Does that make the 'rendition' OK? | Apr 04 20:15 |
| schestowitz | balzac: here's what I prpose | Apr 04 20:15 |
| schestowitz | If there's need to human trafficking, then try to eliminate the need | Apr 04 20:15 |
| balzac | with properly regulated capitalism (ie democratic socialism), nobody would be so desparate that they would endanger themselves to make a little money | Apr 04 20:16 |
| schestowitz | Not to actualise it | Apr 04 20:16 |
| balzac | that's ideal | Apr 04 20:16 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Apr 04 20:16 |
| schestowitz | Then go for itt | Apr 04 20:16 |
| balzac | schestowitz: I'm not talking about human trafficking, which I find abhorrent and frightening. | Apr 04 20:16 |
| balzac | One of my business ideas involves making free software available which can be used by cam girls | Apr 04 20:17 |
| balzac | the license says the software is used without warranty, plenty of disclaimers, available at no cost. | Apr 04 20:17 |
| schestowitz | Why cam /girls/? | Apr 04 20:18 |
| schestowitz | And not cam carpenter? | Apr 04 20:18 |
| schestowitz | Or cam "puppy"? | Apr 04 20:18 |
| schestowitz | Or cam intellectual? | Apr 04 20:18 |
| balzac | Roy, my interest is in cam-girls and the gaming community | Apr 04 20:18 |
| schestowitz | What does the technology have to do with girls specifically? | Apr 04 20:18 |
| balzac | the two of those together | Apr 04 20:19 |
| balzac | me | Apr 04 20:19 |
| balzac | i'm the one who puts them together (hopefully). | Apr 04 20:19 |
| schestowitz | But the technology is generic | Apr 04 20:19 |
| balzac | schestowitz: I think you know enough details to see that I've done my homework | Apr 04 20:19 |
| schestowitz | Some losers already combined both: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=... | Apr 04 20:20 |
| balzac | I'm not un-ethical, nor foolish | Apr 04 20:20 |
| schestowitz | I know | Apr 04 20:20 |
| schestowitz | So a clarification was worthwhile | Apr 04 20:20 |
| balzac | it was worthwhile | Apr 04 20:20 |
| schestowitz | Enterprenuer and activist/FS person are not mutually axclusive | Apr 04 20:20 |
| schestowitz | You can be both | Apr 04 20:20 |
| balzac | The guy from Craigslist has to seriously contemplate these issues | Apr 04 20:20 |
| schestowitz | Being a pig is not a prerequisite of doing business | Apr 04 20:21 |
| schestowitz | A guy who fixes a machine is not doing unethical thin gs | Apr 04 20:21 |
| schestowitz | Maybe with the exception of machines that, unlike computers, say... fire cluster bombs. | Apr 04 20:21 |
| MinceR | cluster bombs aren't necessarily unethical | Apr 04 20:23 |
| balzac | I'd say there's a 99.999% chance that any given cluster-bomb manufacturer is, in fact unethical. | Apr 04 20:23 |
| balzac | maybe that's not enough 9s | Apr 04 20:24 |
| MinceR | possibly | Apr 04 20:24 |
| MinceR | but manufacturing cluster bombs in itself isn't the reason | Apr 04 20:24 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: they are imprecise | Apr 04 20:27 |
| schestowitz | Collision with innocent people is likely | Apr 04 20:28 |
| MinceR | which means you must be very careful in selecting the target area | Apr 04 20:28 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: there are better ways to handle bad people | Apr 04 20:28 |
| schestowitz | Bombs have residues | Apr 04 20:28 |
| schestowitz | Like children | Apr 04 20:28 |
| MinceR | well, it depends on what situation you're in | Apr 04 20:28 |
| schestowitz | Not really. | Apr 04 20:29 |
| schestowitz | Children are innocent | Apr 04 20:29 |
| schestowitz | Adults can be naive | Apr 04 20:29 |
| MinceR | some bad people have really powerful armies at their command | Apr 04 20:29 |
| MinceR | how can you handle them? | Apr 04 20:29 |
| schestowitz | Example? | Apr 04 20:29 |
| MinceR | bush did, now obama does (though i don't know how trigger-happy he is) | Apr 04 20:30 |
| schestowitz | US spendings on military by far outweigh those expenditure of the whole world combined. | Apr 04 20:30 |
| MinceR | so does the chinese government | Apr 04 20:30 |
| MinceR | north korea | Apr 04 20:30 |
| MinceR | russians | Apr 04 20:30 |
| MinceR | etc. | Apr 04 20:30 |
| schestowitz | China brainwashed the youngesters | Apr 04 20:30 |
| schestowitz | There are better solutions than making bombs | Apr 04 20:31 |
| schestowitz | Bombs are for impotents | Apr 04 20:31 |
| MinceR | yes, the usa spends a lot on it. so what can you do if they threaten you? ask them nicely to stop? | Apr 04 20:31 |
| schestowitz | Look at the Arms Race | Apr 04 20:31 |
| schestowitz | Whhat was ever gained? | Apr 04 20:31 |
| schestowitz | Disarmament? | Apr 04 20:31 |
| MinceR | information warfare exists, of course | Apr 04 20:31 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: well, the worse you can do is resist | Apr 04 20:31 |
| MinceR | but i doubt it's the dominant method yet | Apr 04 20:31 |
| schestowitz | Then they call you "enemy combatant" | Apr 04 20:32 |
| MinceR | and to resist you must arm yourself | Apr 04 20:32 |
| schestowitz | So a kid whose family home was torn tom pieces with his parents can't do anything | Apr 04 20:32 |
| balzac | Obama bowed to King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia | Apr 04 20:32 |
| schestowitz | Else he justifies the belief that his family was "terrorist" | Apr 04 20:32 |
| balzac | It was 6 inches too low that he bowed, in my opinion | Apr 04 20:32 |
| MinceR | being considered a "terrorist" changes little about the fact that your family was torn to pieces. | Apr 04 20:33 |
| balzac | http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/200... | Apr 04 20:33 |
| schestowitz | balzac: he bows to oil | Apr 04 20:33 |
| balzac | I would not have gone below the guy's eye level, but I wouldn't have wanted to tower over him either | Apr 04 20:33 |
| schestowitz | Who wouldn't? | Apr 04 20:33 |
| balzac | yep | Apr 04 20:33 |
| MinceR | i wouldn't | Apr 04 20:33 |
| balzac | but why doesn't he make friends with Hugo Chavez? | Apr 04 20:33 |
| MinceR | but then i'm not a politician | Apr 04 20:33 |
| schestowitz | Chavez is skeptical | Apr 04 20:34 |
| schestowitz | Rightly so | Apr 04 20:34 |
| schestowitz | Look what the government did to his country before. | Apr 04 20:34 |
| schestowitz | And it's still the same government | Apr 04 20:34 |
| balzac | I declared Hugo Chavez my president in 2006 | Apr 04 20:34 |
| schestowitz | Different PR persona | Apr 04 20:34 |
| balzac | now, Obama is my president, but I remain an entity above nationalism or loyalty to any government | Apr 04 20:34 |
| MinceR | i don't have a president, but sadly the country i'm living in does | Apr 04 20:35 |
| schestowitz | balzac: maybe you're on 'the' list | Apr 04 20:35 |
| MinceR | balzac: | Apr 04 20:35 |
| MinceR | oops | Apr 04 20:35 |
| MinceR | balzac is a turrist? :> | Apr 04 20:35 |
| balzac | well, given that Obama is so much taller and more politically-powerful than King Abdullah, it didn't cost him much. | Apr 04 20:36 |
| MinceR | i don't know what bowing means exactly | Apr 04 20:36 |
| balzac | i'm a french-ticklist | Apr 04 20:36 |
| balzac | never once contemplated terrorism | Apr 04 20:36 |
| MinceR | that doesn't matter to the usian government | Apr 04 20:36 |
| MinceR | if you think differently, you're a turrist | Apr 04 20:37 |
| balzac | MinceR: Bush is not occupying our government anymore. | Apr 04 20:37 |
| MinceR | i know | Apr 04 20:37 |
| MinceR | but are obama's people better? | Apr 04 20:37 |
| MinceR | under the surface, i mean? | Apr 04 20:37 |
| balzac | without hesitation - yes. | Apr 04 20:37 |
| MinceR | (and disregarding their blatant subservience to megacorps -- that's a separate issue) | Apr 04 20:38 |
| balzac | well, I have some really refined opinions regarding corporate responsibility, economic policy and such. | Apr 04 20:39 |
| balzac | but I have to pay my bills and buy a light jacket because the weather is warming up | Apr 04 20:39 |
| balzac | the jacket I bought in Budapest is too warm now, and my hoodie doesn't have a zipper, so it's uncomfortable | Apr 04 20:39 |
| *DaemonFC has quit ("Leaving") | Apr 04 20:40 | |
| *DaemonFC (n=ryan@c-67-173-86-85.hsd1.in.comcast.net) has joined #boycottnovell | Apr 04 20:45 | |
| *schestowitz looks for a relevant talk | Apr 04 20:45 | |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/results?search_typ... | Apr 04 20:48 |
| schestowitz | Can't find specific video, but she made the point very clearly that "either you're a Bushi or a terrorist" | Apr 04 20:48 |
| balzac | Bush said that himself | Apr 04 20:49 |
| balzac | "either you're with us or you're with the terrorists" | Apr 04 20:49 |
| schestowitz | Really? | Apr 04 20:49 |
| schestowitz | Let me google it | Apr 04 20:49 |
| balzac | I turned it around, calling it "Bush's undead talking points". | Apr 04 20:49 |
| balzac | Either you're with us (impeachment advocates) or you're with Bush. | Apr 04 20:50 |
| schestowitz | http://www.electronicbookreview.com/thr... "2. Either You're With Us or You're With the Terrorists" | Apr 04 20:50 |
| balzac | But Obama turns out to have been against impeachment because he had presidential ambitions | Apr 04 20:50 |
| balzac | and I don't think he's with Bush | Apr 04 20:50 |
| balzac | We'll see what Eric Holder does next... | Apr 04 20:51 |
| schestowitz | Many results come up: http://www.darleenclick.com/weblog/archiv... http://yc2.net/speech.htm | Apr 04 20:51 |
| schestowitz | So Jacques Shirack (spelling) is a terrosist then | Apr 04 20:51 |
| MinceR | Chirac? | Apr 04 20:51 |
| schestowitz | Yes | Apr 04 20:51 |
| schestowitz | Here is the complete quote: "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime. " | Apr 04 20:52 |
| schestowitz | --Sept. 20, 2001 | Apr 04 20:52 |
| schestowitz | A week later | Apr 04 20:52 |
| schestowitz | Did he write this speech himself? | Apr 04 20:53 |
| schestowitz | or did this pass the filter of spooks and PR people? | Apr 04 20:53 |
| schestowitz | Is it a personal policy or a broader one of the regime? Where "terrorism" (inspiring fear) equated to disagreement.. | Apr 04 20:54 |
| balzac | Roy, I drove them crazy on DailyKos with "Bush's Undead Talking Points". | Apr 04 20:54 |
| schestowitz | That would be totalitarian | Apr 04 20:54 |
| schestowitz | To say that it's a violation to disagree | Apr 04 20:54 |
| schestowitz | Democracy is based on disagreements | Apr 04 20:55 |
| schestowitz | But maybe it's taken out of context anyway. | Apr 04 20:55 |
| balzac | "There are those among us who think that by ignoring the threat of war criminals, they will be safe. We will never be safe so long as anyone provides safe harbor and gives *succor* to war criminals." | Apr 04 20:55 |
| MinceR | they aren't the prime example of democracy, no matter how often and how vigorously assert to be it. | Apr 04 20:55 |
| balzac | gratuitous use of the word "succor" | Apr 04 20:55 |
| balzac | Waterboard Bush was an original slogan I coined | Apr 04 20:59 |
| balzac | "Angstivism" belongs to me as well | Apr 04 20:59 |
| balzac | I'm good at sloganeering and branding | Apr 04 20:59 |
| schestowitz | balzac: some criminals live in Florida | Apr 04 21:00 |
| schestowitz | Like the guy who blew up airport/s in Cuba | Apr 04 21:00 |
| schestowitz | He lives happily in Miami AFAIK | Apr 04 21:00 |
| schestowitz | Because he attacked the "them" | Apr 04 21:01 |
| balzac | we'll see what happens | Apr 04 21:01 |
| balzac | but regardless, activism is only a hobby to me now. Only for entertainment, not out of any sense of urgency. | Apr 04 21:03 |
| balzac | money is my urgent problem | Apr 04 21:04 |
| Balrog_ | then don't waste it. | Apr 04 21:04 |
| balzac | I generally don't | Apr 04 21:04 |
| balzac | strippers are worth every dollar | Apr 04 21:04 |
| Balrog_ | not in my book. | Apr 04 21:04 |
| schestowitz | Novell seems to be crumbling pretty fast: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/04/nove... http://boycottnovell.com/2009/04/04... | Apr 04 21:05 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: +1 | Apr 04 21:06 |
| schestowitz | balzac: what made you glorify the habit? | Apr 04 21:06 |
| schestowitz | You choose sleaze over accommodation? Pardon me for being critical. | Apr 04 21:06 |
| Balrog_ | I have better things to use my money for | Apr 04 21:07 |
| Balrog_ | the FSF could always use some :P | Apr 04 21:07 |
| schestowitz | Use some what? Strippers? j/k | Apr 04 21:10 |
| Balrog_ | money! | Apr 04 21:10 |
| schestowitz | FSF's libido has not taken over its urge for freedom, fortunately | Apr 04 21:11 |
| balzac | Roy, years of not getting the poontang i wanted and deserved, thanks to reactionary feminist doctrine. | Apr 04 21:12 |
| balzac | as well as generally conservative morality in society which is based on the time before condoms, birth control, and abortions existed | Apr 04 21:13 |
| balzac | so, I'm an atheist, still on board with women's liberation principles (real feminism, not reactionary angstivist "feminism") | Apr 04 21:14 |
| balzac | and I have a better time in strip clubs than in most bars. the music and entertainment is much better. | Apr 04 21:14 |
| schestowitz | Blander powa: http://www.youtube.com/w... | Apr 04 21:15 |
| schestowitz | *Blender | Apr 04 21:15 |
| balzac | and I don't feel i'm in a high-school prom, filled with hipsters who are discovering themselves | Apr 04 21:15 |
| schestowitz | http://www.youtube.com/watch?... | Apr 04 21:16 |
| schestowitz | http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/archi... | Apr 04 21:16 |
| balzac | of course, once I find another gf, I'll spend more time in restaurants and bars with good live music | Apr 04 21:16 |
| balzac | and i'll only bring her to a strip club if she's comfortable there | Apr 04 21:16 |
| schestowitz | Strip clubs won't help you make relationships, IMHO | Apr 04 21:17 |
| balzac | I'm not worried about it | Apr 04 21:17 |
| balzac | I have no shortage of friends, no urgency for a long-term relationship, money is my only concern | Apr 04 21:18 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: more info about your surroundings' corruption: http://www.h-online.com/open/Hungarian-g... | Apr 04 21:18 |
| schestowitz | Microsoft: "we're open source, TOO!!!11" :-) :-) | Apr 04 21:18 |
| Balrog_ | if money is a concern, don't waste it | Apr 04 21:18 |
| balzac | what is this, everyone judge balzac-day? | Apr 04 21:18 |
| MinceR | we'll see where it leads | Apr 04 21:18 |
| schestowitz | Balrog: exactly | Apr 04 21:18 |
| schestowitz | MinceR: better than before, methinks | Apr 04 21:19 |
| Balrog_ | there's a difference between needs and wants | Apr 04 21:19 |
| schestowitz | Same with OBAMAA. Could be worse.. WAS worse. | Apr 04 21:19 |
| MinceR | balzac: protip: if you don't want to be judged, don't attack people unprovoked. | Apr 04 21:19 |
| MinceR | schestowitz: indeed | Apr 04 21:19 |
| balzac | MinceR: there's still a little tear in the corner of your eye | Apr 04 21:19 |
| balzac | stiff upper lip, ole chap! | Apr 04 21:19 |
| MinceR | balzac: there's still a lot of shit in you | Apr 04 21:19 |
| balzac | wrong - just dropped a deuce | Apr 04 21:20 |
| schestowitz | Enough :-) | Apr 04 21:20 |
| schestowitz | Why infighting? | Apr 04 21:20 |
| MinceR | balzac: yet you're still full of it. | Apr 04 21:21 |
| schestowitz | http://www.wired.com/entertainment/hollyw... | Apr 04 21:21 |
| balzac | MinceR: almost everyone has some organic matter in their digestive tract | Apr 04 21:22 |
| balzac | what, are you one of those people who gets colonics? | Apr 04 21:22 |
| schestowitz | :-( 'Poor' Murdoch. The Internet is competing with him. http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/03... | Apr 04 21:23 |
| MinceR | balzac: i see your knowledge of slang is severly limited | Apr 04 21:23 |
| MinceR | s/rl/rel/ | Apr 04 21:23 |
| schestowitz | "Posteriors are puckering throughout the Alberta oil patch as long-overdue climate and green economy legislation moves through the US Congress. The provincial government has responded by hiring Washington lobbyists at $500,000 per year to try and ensure whatever bill gets passed is so watered down that does not impact the dirtiest oil on Earth." | Apr 04 21:24 |
| balzac | ohhh snap! | Apr 04 21:24 |
| schestowitz | http://www.desmogblog.com/spin-o... Lobbying for death of the planet! ;-) ?? | Apr 04 21:24 |
| schestowitz | Obama on exceptionalism < http://jamesfallows.theatlantic.com/arc... > | Apr 04 21:26 |
| schestowitz | An ad deal is apparently being misinterpreted as twitter selling out. http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009... | Apr 04 21:32 |
| balzac | Every time some online "community" gets big enough to be commercialized, there will be angstivists who cry out about "selling out". | Apr 04 21:34 |
| schestowitz | yo balzac, you heard of this right? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30030756/ (Sources: 14 killed in N.Y. rampage) | Apr 04 21:34 |
| balzac | If you want an online community that won't sell out, you'll have to pay taxes. | Apr 04 21:34 |
| schestowitz | I saw it on TV earlier | Apr 04 21:34 |
| MinceR | damn angstivists, they should just get on the bench, grab the paddles and put the shackles on already | Apr 04 21:35 |
| schestowitz | balzac: no, it's the question of who you sell /to/ | Apr 04 21:35 |
| balzac | MinceR: I'm on the side of the stated goals of many "angstivists" or activists who get angsty. I'm just offering my consulting in the manner of a psychiatrist to help them understand themselves. | Apr 04 21:36 |
| schestowitz | Google must be one of the scariest expansionist out there on the Web nowadays. Startups have love/hate relationship with Google (buy us, don't defeat us) | Apr 04 21:36 |
| schestowitz | psychiatrist often need a psychiatrist | Apr 04 21:36 |
| schestowitz | That's why they go study the prefession | Apr 04 21:37 |
| MinceR | balzac: oh, you agree with the activists, you're just looking for a way to look down on them and call them names | Apr 04 21:37 |
| MinceR | i see. | Apr 04 21:37 |
| schestowitz | They seek help and knowlwedge | Apr 04 21:37 |
| balzac | well, since I'm not a professional, I don't subject myself to peer review from any professional psychiatrist. | Apr 04 21:37 |